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IT WAS NEVER CALLED DOMINICA KADANS UNTIL RECENTLY, THAT'S WHERE THE CONFUSION STARTED. CADENCE-LYPSO STARTED AS A MIX OF KADANS AND CALYPSO, BUT THE STYLE DEVELOPED MORE AS KADANS. AS DOMINICAN BANDS STARTED INTRODUCING THE SYNTHESIZERS, A FULL-HRON SECTION INFLUENCED BY CALYPSO/FUNK, ROCK GUITARS, SOUL-STYLE VOCALS AND FUNKY BASSLINES....THIS IS WHEN THE COMPAS STARTED ITS MODERNIZATION TO ZOUK MUSIC. IT'S TRUE THAT THE MUSIC MAITAINED THE CADENCE OR COMPAS BEAT(EX. THE COWBELL AND TAMBORA DRUM, NOT SO MUCH THE CONGA. THE USE OF THE CYMBAL, WHICH ALSO PLAY THE SAME RHYTHM OF THE JING PING GWAJ. THIS RHYTHM IS ALSO FOUND IN THE "TIBWA" AND MARACAS/RATTLE-SCRAPER RHYTHMS PLAYED ON THE BELE, BIGUINE AND CHOUVAL BWA FROM THE FRENCH ANTILLES. ALL THIS BECAME PART OF THE STYLE THAT LATER EVOLVED INTO ZOUK, THOUGHT COMPAS LEFT THE BIGGEST INFLUENCE.

IT ALL STARTED WITH COMPAS, BUT THIS DOMINICA KADANS OR INFLUENCE COMING FROM DOMINICA AND THE FRENCH ANTILLES HAVE CHANGED COMPAS FROM THE MORE LATIN FEELING INTO A MORE COMMERCIAL GENRE OF MUSIC. COMPAS IS BEING PROMOTED OR SHOULD I SAY HAVE BEEN PROMOTED....ZOUK OR ZOUK LOVE ALWAYS BEEN A ROMANTIC GENRE SPEAKING ABOUT LOVE ISSUES, WHILE COMPAS WAS MORE UP TEMPO AND AGGRESSIVE. TODAY, COMPAS IS FOLLOWING THE SAME PATTERN AS ZOUK LOVE OR COMPAS LOVE. THAT'S WHERE THE CONFUSION STARTED. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.192.218.161 (talk) 19:22, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

CADENCE-LYPSO AND ZOUK HAVE BEEN THERE SINCE THE 70'S AND 80'S, AND AFTER EVOLVING OVER THE YEARS U NOW EXPECT EVERYONE TO CAHNGE THE NAME TO COMPAS? TALKING ABOUT THE GENRE THAT HEPLED PUT MONEY ON OUR POCKETS LOL...WASN'T THAT THE SUCESS OF BANDS LIKE EXILE ONE AND KASSAV WHO PAVED THE WAY FOR MODERN CREOLE MUSIC? WHO WAS THE FIRST TO GET SIGN TO A MAJOR RECORD LABEL? OR STARTED TEH INTRODUCTION OF DIGITAL TECHNOLOGY SUCH AS THE SYNTHESIZERS AND MIDI...EVEN WHEN THE HAITAIN BANDS HAD TO UP GRADE THEIR COMPAS STYLE TO COMPETE BY ADDING SYNTHESIERS AND MORE TECHNOLOGY. DIDN'T THAT PROMOTE CREOLE MUSIC?

THANKS FOR THE TAMBORA DRUM AND COWBELLS, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT PUT MONEY IN ANYONE'S POCKET. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.192.218.161 (talk) 19:40, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

LOOK AT THE SUCESS OF COMPAS IN HAITI, AS OPPOSED TO THE FRENCH ANTILLES, THEN TELL ME WHO MAKING THE MOST PROGRSS. U GAVE US A STYLE WE IMPROVED ACCIDENTALLY AS ZOUK...IT BECAME POPULAR PAVING A WAY FOR ALL TO BENEFIT, RIGHT?.....LIKE FOR EX. WHY IS THE NAME ZOUK IS SO MORE POPULAR THAT COMPAS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.192.218.161 (talk) 19:44, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

FEEDBACK: I AM VERY BUSY BUT FEEL COMPEL TO REPLY. First, prior to the touring of Haitian artists with their MERINGUE (compas or cadence rampa) the Caribbean was playing calypso, beguine, marzouka and Latin and meringue/merengue. Since 1955 French Antilleans have adopted the music and dance of the meringue (compas/cadence). In Dominica French Antillean who masterized the compas style initiated Dominican in the style. then the tours of the Sicot brothers, Nemours Jean-Baptiste and almost all existing Haitian bands helped spread the seed of the meringue in the Caribbean. So today it is unfortunate to read the same people dancing and playing the same music telling how they mix, fusion...to create this or that music. You can do and say whatever you want as long as you don't change the name of compas. the dance, technic, rhythmic are style the same. By the way when your read cadence=lypso, Dominica cadence that means the same cadence music called cadence lypso in Dominica. finally why are we having all these names for one music style? why cannot we work togheter to promote the meringue which has benefited all of us? putting money into our pockets, giving visibility to our countries and cultures, etc. I have to go

Best regardsPintade (talk) 16:45, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

==About Cadence-lypso (Dominica kadans)............Read this and send me back you comments and views about it.

Webert Sicot, the originator of cadence known for his great virtuosity, mostly harmonic skills, was well appreciated in the Caribbean. This is why the term cadence was more popular than compas. Cadence-lypso is the Dominican kadans.

Cadence and calypso were the two dominant styles in Dominica hence the name cadence-lypso. The great majority of the songs are either calypso, reggae and mostly cadence or compas. If there is any fusion it should not be significant enough to be listed on album or CD covers. Finally cadence-lypso is danced the same way as compas.

Originally the word cadence or kadans was on album covers whether it's grammacks or exile one. They featured calypso, reggae and mostly cadence.

Exile One, the leader of the word cadence-lypso, featured some reggae, calypso and mostly cadence music. It is not sure whether the band's intent was to fusion Trinidadian calypso with Haitian cadence or compas since little was done. The song "La Dominique" in the Album "Exile One Old School Session" could be an attempt, however, not often repeated. The band music repertoire is mostly cadence or compas with all the features of the style. of course the band had its personality; it was a great kadans band. Exile One exported kadans music to many places: Japan, the Indian Ocean, Africa, North America, Europe, The Cape Verde islands

Other Dominica cadence bands included the Grammacks, Black Roots, Black Machine, Naked Feet, Belles Combo, Mantra, Black Affairs, Liquid Ice, Wafrikai, Midnighte Groovers and Milestone, while the most famous singers included Bill Thomas, Chubby Marc, Gordon Henderson, Linford John, Janet Azouz, Sinky Rabess, Tony Valmond, Jeff Joseph, Mike Moreau and Anthony Gussie. Ophelia Marie is a popular singer of cadence in the 1980s.

Gordon Henderson is the leader and founder of the musical group Exile One and the one who coined the name cadence-lypso for a genre of music that revolutionized creole music world wide. The group is considered by some to be one of the pioneers of soca. During the early 1970s, they initiated a fusion of cadence and calypso "Cadence-lypso" that would later influence the creation of soca music.

In the early 70's, the full-horn section Dominican band Exile One led by the talented Gordon Henderson was the first to use the synthesizers to their music that other young cadence or compas bands from Haiti (mini-jazz) and the French Antilles emulated in the 1970s. In Haiti, two of the most popular bands, Les Difficiles de Pétionville became D.P Express and Les Gypsies became Scorpio Universel after adding a full horn section in addition to their new keyboard synthesizer. In 1998, Tambou Combo acknowledged at the World Creole Music Festival in Dominica that they introduced a full-horn section to their music because of Exile One.

Cadence-lypso has evolved under the influence of Dominican and Caribbean/Latin rhythms, as well as rock guitars, soul-style vocals and funk bass and horn styles - music from the United States. By the end of the 1970s, Gordon Henderson defined Cadence-lypso as "a synthesis of Caribbean and African musical patterns fusing the traditional with the contemporary". It was pushed in the 1970s by groups from Dominica, and was the first style of Dominican music to find international acclaim. Cadence-lypso was influenced by nationalist movement that espoused Rastafari and Black Power. Many groups performed songs with intensely ideological positions, and much of the repertoire was in the vernacular kwéyòl language.

Grammacks and Exile One were two of the most influential figures in the promotion of cadence-lypso in the 1970's. They were inspirational for the French Antilles band Kassav and the emergence of zouk in the 1980s. Kassav' was formed in 1979 by Pierre-Edouard Décimus (former musicians from the Les Vikings de Guadeloupe) and Paris studio musician Jacob F. Desvarieux. Together and under the influence of well-known Dominican and Guadeloupean kadans or compas bands like Experience 7, Grammacks and Exile One, they decided to make Guadeloupean carnival music recording it in a more fully orchestrated yet modern and polished style.

Kassav' created its own style "zouk" by experimenting an eleven-piece gwo ka unit and two lead singers, tambour bélé, ti bwa, biguine, African styles and mostly cadence or compas with full use of the MIDI technology. Kassav', whose music repertoire is 90% compas, is the creator of the fast carnival zouk style. The French Antilles' Kassav' was the first to apply the MIDI technology to compas. In the 1980s they took Caribbean music to another level by recording in the new digital format. Today, zouk is considered to be the French Antilles cadence or compas music.

During the 1980s, cadence-lypso’s popularity declined greatly due to the emergence of zouk and soca music. Some Dominican performers remained famous, such as Ophelia, and became Dominica's first kadans female singer to achieve international star status. She is sometimes referred to as "Dominica's Lady of Song", the "First Lady of Creole", and "la grande dame de la musique Antillaise". She has toured widely in France and had concerts broadcast over much of the Francophone world. Her first recording was "Ay Dominique," a "lament for Dominica as the country underwent political problems in the 1970s". The rise of Ophelia had two critical impact: one, paving the way for female singers to become front singers and professionals in a number of genres and two, the eventual creation of zouk-love. Ophelia’s contribution to the development of regional music, particularly cadence (the origin of zouk), is well known, ever since she burst onto the music scene in 1979 with her popular hit “Aie Dominique”. When the record was released, it immediately became a hit in Guadeloupe and Martinique although this was towards the end of the dominance of Dominican music in the French West Indies.

Recently, efforts have begun to revitalize cadence and creole music generally through the holding of the World Creole Music Festival here in Dominica. This festival attracts top bands of the French Creole-speaking world and in Africa. Exile One, Jeff Joseph//new Generation Grammacks, Anthony Gussie and Tony Valmond/Liquid Ice have released a number of albums as well as remastered vintage cadence hits of the 1970s.

WCK or Windward Caribbean Kulture, was formed in 1988 by a group of highly creative young Dominican musicians. The band played a blend of the local Cadence-lypso and traditional Jing ping, Chante mas and lapo kabwit rhythms, which would later be labelled bouyon, a genre which they are credited with creating. While the Cadence-Lypso sound is based on the creative use of acoustic drums, an aggressive up-tempo guitar beat and strong social commentary in the native Creole language, the new sound created by WCK, focused more on the use of technology with a strong emphasis on keyboard rhythmic patterns. This group came together to fill a void left by several of Dominica's most internationally recognized bands such as Exile One and Grammacks. The band heralded in a new and much needed resurgence of live music and created a new wave in Dominicas musical evolution.

Soca

In the 70s with the frequent tours of the Sicot brothers, Exile One, and so many meringue bands, compas or cadence rampa as become very influential in several parts of the world, specifically the Caribbean. Its influence on the calypso gave rise to Soca, closer to cadence or compas.

The calypsonian Lord Shorty of Trinidad was the first to really define his music and with "Indrani" in 1973 and "Endless Vibration" (not just the song but the entire album) in 1975, calypso music really took off in another direction. Later in 1975 Lord Shorty visited his good friend Maestro in Dominica where he stayed (at Maestro's house) for a month while they visited and worked with local cadence or compas artists. You had Maestro experimenting with calypso and cadence. Sadly a year later Maestro would die in an accident in Dominica and his loss was palpably felt by Shorty, who penned "Higher World" as a tribute. In Dominica, Shorty had attended an Exile One performance of kadans, and collaborated with Dominica's 1969 Calypso King, Lord Tokyo and two calypso lyricists, Chris Seraphine and Pat Aaron in the early 1970s, who wrote him some Creole lyrics. Soon after Shorty released a song, "Ou Petit", with words like "Ou dee moin ou petit Shorty" (meaning "you told me you are small Shorty"). Soca's development includes calypso, cadence/compas, and Indian musical instruments—particularly the dholak, tabla and dhantal—as demonstrated in Shorty's classic compositions "Ïndrani" and "Shanti Om". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.192.218.161 (talk) 16:29, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Why the tittle cadence-lypso is so important for French Antilleans?

The tittle cadence-lypso is maintained mostly by the French Antilleans unable to find a basis for the zouk love origination. As already explained, Jeff Gordon used the word cadence-lypso "mizika nou", "our music" because the band repertoire was calypso and mostly cadence: The two influential music of Dominica. Dominican cadence bands also feature reggae music. Originally the word kadans was on the albums covers whether it's grammacks or exile one. They all featured calypso, reggae and mostly cadence. Grammacks: mediba (kadans), banana (sweet-kadans), ou pa bon, (kadans), ou pitit (kadans), reggae down, disco live (kadans) this same tune is categorized as zouk retro by Deejay Zak (midlay kadans 11/24/2011) Exile one: akiyaka, gade deye...(Midnight) get ready 1997, etc. This part is not to completely deny any attempt made to fusion cadence and calypso, the point here is that the great majority of the songs are either calypso, reggae or mostly kadans. If there is any fusion it should not be significant enough to be listed on album or CD covers, which would be confusing. Finally there is not a cadence-lypso way of dancing.

First of all, zouk-love or zouk is gonna be played by Antilleans don't matter what is the basis, it been that way for many years. Thought I would say zouk-love is a fusion of beguine-bele (tibwa/chacha/tambour) and the cadence styles. (Inconsistencies: ISN'T ZOUK LOVE THE FRENCH ANTILLES COMPAS MUSIC? HOW COULD IT BE A FUSION OF BIGUINE....? WHERE IS YOUR BRAIN?)

Cadence-lypso (Dominica cadence) influence of creole music Dominican bands called cadence-lypso "cadence" as an abbreviation. The name cadence is in cadence-lypso because it was a fusion of cadence and calypso. Like Reggaeton, it was influenced by reggae, the name remains, but it have fused many other musical styles. Now you claiming it as a derivative of compas? It reminds me of zouk and cadence-lypso. And for cadence-lypso, it could sometimes be danced as jing ping, but it is danced exactly like calypso music. You may not hear the calypso influence in ou petit, mediba, or ou pa bon, but Dominicans/Trinidadians/Eastern Caribbean's could easily see that...you can't tell us about our culture. (ABOUT THE DANCE; IN DOMINICA FESTIVAL AND OTHER PLACES I SEE PEOPLE DANCE KADANS SAME AS JEFF) (ABREVIATION: YOU RESERVE DE RIGHT TO CHANGE ANYTIME, CADENCE OR COMPAS, A STYLE THAT YOUR MOTHER AND FATHER CREATED FOR YOU?)SO MANY CONTRADICTIONS....

Zouk retro is actually the style of zouk that resembles cadence-lypso the most. (STUPIDITY: COMPAS WAS TAKEN TO THE CARIBBEAN PLACES SINCE 1955. KADANS LYPSO WORD WAS USED IN THE EARLY 74; YOU START USING ZOUK IN THE MID 80S; YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ZOUK RESEMBLANCE WITH KADANS LYPSO...THIS IS CRAZY...WHY DIDN'T YOU MAKE ANY FUSION BEFORE KADANS OR COMPAS? THIS IS STUPIDITY HOW COULD YOU EVEN REPEAT SUCH A NON-SENSE? And either way, cadence-lypso is a basis of zouk-love, that's why you can't admit to the genre so you call it compas. That makes compas the basis right?. However, cadence-lypso is still alive...a fusion of cadence or compas with calypso, jing ping, a little bit of rock, soul and funk, a full-horn section, synthesizers, and MIDI technology in a big band format. (This is not a Haitian creation). Remember, Dominican bands were the first to play that way, thanks to Exile One and Grammacks, singers like Ophelia Marie was the first female kadans singer to achieve international acclaim; took kadans to the all over the Francophone world, eventually evolving into zouk love. As the first female singer, many female singer were inspired and imitated her style. She is considered the first lady of creole, Dominica lady of songs, and Godmother of zouk love.

Exile One was the first to use the full-horn section and synthesizers that was imitated by Haitian/French Antillean bands....most importantly Kassav, the originator of zouk music. Exile One took Kadans to the four corners of the world and was to first kadans/cadence-lypso bands to sign with a major recording company. (Barclay records)(SO WAS EXILE ONE THE FIRST TO USE A HORN SECTION IN THE WORLD? IN HAITI? WHAT ABOUT ALL THE HAITIAN BIG BANDS? ANYWAY ADDING AN INSTRUMENT IS NOT A CHANGE IN THE STYLE; BUT VARIATION. YOU'RE SAYING ALL TIME THE FIRST TO ADD A HORN SECTION...WHAT ABOUT THE MINI JAZZ AND THE BIG BANDS USING THE HORN FOR MANY YEARS? (STUPIDITIES)

In Haiti, two of the most famous bands DP Express and Scorpio Universal adopted to the style. In 1998, Tambou combo admit at the World Creole Music Festival in Dominica that they added a full-horn section because of Exile One. Exile One was also the first to use the synthesizers. The president of Haiti/President of compas....the one who started the digital compas gave tribute to Grammacks to his contribution to his music "Cadence-lypso"...saying this was the only music outside of Haiti that could compete with Haitian bands and from there Haitian bands started to develop their music. (CREDITS ARE GIVEN TO ALL THE BANDS AFTER ALL BECAUSE YOU CREATE A STYLE DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO BE THE BEST ALL TIMES ...THERE IS ONLY ONE PROBLEM ...ONLY WHEN YOU TAKE THE LIBERTY TO RENAME THE STYLE AND TO TAKE CREDIT FOR CREATING A NEW ONE. YOU SAY ALL YOU WANT BUT NOT CREATING A NEW STYLE WHILE YOU'RE PLAYING KONPA OR KADANS; WHERE DID YOU GET THAT MENTALITY OF ENVY AND FREE RIDERS?)

In the early 70's, Lord Shorty "the father of soca" visited Dominica where he attended an Exile One performance of Cadence-lypso and collaborated with many Dominican Calypso/Cadence musicians who wrote him some creole lyrics. Soon after, Shorty recorded a song "ou petit", a fusion of calypso, cadence. and the creole lyrics...this is considered to be the first "soca" song, another cadence-lypso tune (calypso and cadence). (THIS IS ARROGANCE AND PROPAGANDA...EXILE ONE AND OTHERS WHERE PLAYING CADANS NOW SAYING THAT SOCA CAME FROM CADENCE LYPSO IS UNACCEPTABLE. NOW IS YOU SAY THAT EXILE ONE INFLUENCE OR INSPIRE LORD WITH HIS KADANS WE CAN AGREE)

In 1988, Windward Caribbean Kulture started a fusion of jing ping and cadence-lypso...this later became bouyon music. Bouyon have become a fast jump up music combining elements of Jing ping, cadence-lypso, bele, quadrille, zouk beton, and most significantly the chante mas and Lapokabrit carnival music of Dominica. I HAVE NO QUESTION

Bouyon started combining elements of the Jamaican ragamuffin music...a style called Bouyon-muffin. More popular than cadence-lypso, Bouyon-muffin have changed the musical culture of Dominica. Currently, Bouyon is popular in the French island of Guadeloupe (Gwada)...a style call Bouyon Gwada or Bouyon hardcore.

There is also styles like Bouyon soca, a fusion of bouyon and soca music. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.205.126.84 (talk) 02:23, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

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Dominica play Kadans or Dominica Kadans, but there is also cadence-lypso, a fusion with calypso music.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.251.128.3 (talk) 05:37, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Cadence-lypso is a fusion of cadence + calypso, hence the name. (GIVE ME TWO SONGS OF THIS FUSION: AND A WAY OF DANCING IT) YOU'RE STILL TALKING WITH NO EXAMPLEPintade (talk) 02:49, 24 March 2014 (UTC))Listen to some of Nemour and Sicot music, the conga and merengue beat is present, but it is not as constructive as caence-lypso, the true precursor for zouk music. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.205.126.84 (talk) 01:21, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

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April 2012

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Kizomba

If you does not know anything about music do not invent. All the music from Antilles and South America is of African origin, so it is very normal, for much strange it looks, that looks-like African music. Plus, the famous merengue, originates in Angola and was brought to south America by Angolan slaves, and Zouk uses African rhythms such as Makossa, so despite being a strange coincidence, it is not surprising that Zouk sounds like the Kizomba and it is not surprising that those who do not know what is Kizomba, made confusion with Cabo-Zouk a bad imitation of Zouk made ​​in Cape Verde. So stop misrepresent the article Kizomba because you are committing a blunder. Zorglub-PRV (talk) 19:07, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

FEEDBACK

Dear fellow, when I write about something I make a solid case and provide with sound reference. I will be brieve. It is true that most Caribbean and South American music have African roots. However, if a music style has been already there years ago, everybody must, by decency acknowlege it. For example, Haitian meringue has been around since the 1800s. Featured by not only Haitian artits but foreigners too. In 1955 the meringue-compas was introduced to the Caribbean Islands where it was absorbed mostly in Dominica and the French Antillean of Martinique and Guadeloupe. A music style has its charasteristics. Therefore we are surprised to hear meringue-compas been called kizomba or zouk. In fact there was only one zouk, the fast zouk beton: a mix of African, gwo ka, biguine, cadence, etc. but it lost ground due to the popularity of the meringue. Zouk love is pure meringue-compas. We hear exactly the same most distinguishible features of meringue-compas in whether kizomba or zouk or Cabo style. The discrepency is that compas has been around way before these so-called styles. English artists have not changed the rock n'roll name eventhough the groups were different in their styles. South American artists did not change salsa name. There is no bluff...either you can create your music or you adopt an existing style with respect.

The truth is that Haitians are pure African men and women who have already inherited music from their ancestors. The French and African from St. Domingue brought the music to Cuba, Puerto Rico, the USA...and since the 60s, 70s when many African countries where not yet free, Haiti has been influencing countries with its meringue. Coupe Cloue, Bossa Combo, Tabou Combo...were influencing bands in Africa, south America and the Caribbean. Even before the zouk term was popularized, Cabo verdeans were playing meringue-compas. see artist TITO PARIS in "danca mami Criola" I don't know where the cabozouk comes from when the zouk itself is not a proper style but the French Antillean meringue-compas. Kassav promoted meringue-compas as zouk in Africa.

As an independant nation since 1804, Haiti had plenty of time to develop its music. These African have made great contribution to the world music. Therefore, as featured kizomba (Hugo-Bempa pista/Iron-Minha Metade/Volta pami/Djanelli-Na linguiyo...), zouk, cabo styles, all are meringue-compas derivatives because they sound the same and use the same technics.

Now I would be very happy if you could educate me on the Angola merengue. includind the origine of the word merengue.

Thank youPintade (talk) 00:50, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

This is my last attempt to make you understand the reality. The Angolan merengue, is the original merengue. According to the references I have put in the bottom of your Talk page, and which you can find in the article Merengue, and you clearly can not read because it is in Spanish, the musical style merengue was brought by slaves from Angola to the South-America. Presently the South-Americam Merengue evolved into a more dynamic style. The Kizomba was a gradual evolution, which went through several musical styles, having been an evolution of the Semba, the style that gave rise to Brazilian Samba,and despite the seemingly Kizomba and Zouk be similar, there are slight differences in musical structure. Much of this confusion arises because Cape-Verdeans in France, created a bad copy of the Zouk, the Cola-Zouk, which is sung by Portuguese-speaking peoples, and wrongly mistaken whit Kizomba, leading a lot of people who know nothing of the matter to think that Kizomba is indeed Cola-zouk, which is entirely false. All this is very well explained and referenced in the pt wiki article. Regarding the origins of the word merengue, I often smile reading pathetic attempts to explain the origin of the word, since it is a word in the native language of Angola "mbundu" which means "drag" and the dance gained its name because dancers drag one foot when are dancing, and is also the name of a sweet that gain that name because it is done by "dragging" the dough in the pan, but unfortunately as Angola is a new country, leaving a few years ago a fratricidal civil war, not yet has done almost nothing in defence of their cultural backgrounds, which has been stolen for centuries by the Portuguese and Brazilians. Zorglub-PRV (talk) 21:00, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

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Merengue and Kizomba

Everything is well documented, as long as you know how to read. This is from the article Merengue and this from the article Kizomba, right here on en wiki. Zorglub-PRV (talk) 15:30, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

1. Grammacks: mediba (kadans), banana (sweet kadans), ou pa bon, (kadans), ou pitit (kadans), reggae down, disco live (kadans) this same tune is categorized as zouk retro by Deejay Zak (midlay kadans 11/24/2011) Exile one: akiyaka, gade deye...(Midnight) get ready 1997, etc.
2. Album "Exile one - Gordon Henderson 40 volume 1" features 14 kadans out of 18 tunes. 1. Rosita 2. ba yo boi 3. jumbolo 4. jamais voir ca (calypso tune) 5. reflexion 6. n'homme ka batte n'homme 7. gadez deye 8. ah ta ta 9. Ico vole 10. pompilili 11. aki yaka 12. vivent les vacances aux antilles (calypso tune) 13. Ilyne (calypso tune) 14. nous travail pou ayen 15. cadence lypso 16. sexile 17. come here (reggae tune) 18. interlude. The song cadence lypso is a kadans tune. A third album "Collector kadance lypso" features twelve méringue cadence tunes. The album also features tunes from other kadans bands: 2. Rigrete (Midnight Groover), Serpent la (C Top 6), la vie vini plus raid (Belles combo) 9. Coq et perroquet (Liquid Ice) 12. mwen di ou fe (Black Affairs) 7. Chanson d'amour Ophelia (Exile one)
3. The album "Exile one-Old school Session: Gree/Vert" features mostly méringue cadence or compas: 6 out of 8 tunes. 1) fete commune 2) torti 3) famille Creole 4) d'leau 5) sauvez riviere la and 7) Sylvie
4. Most of these bands featured separated calypso, reggae and cadence tunes. Review Exile one CD 40 anniversary, Grammack collection 74-76 and others available at amazon music
5. ^ Cite error: The named reference gibault was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
6. > "Ophelia Marie - Hypnotique". YouTube:. Retrieved November 11, 2011.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: extra punctuation (link)
7. Pintade, Misplaced Pages editor
8. Pérez de Cuello, Catana; Solano, Rafael (2005). El merengue: música y baile de la República Dominicana (PDF) (in Spanish). Santo Domingo: Trinitaria. ISBN 9945-406-04-3. Retrieved 2010-09-19. {{cite book}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |authormask= (help); Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help)
9. "Eduardo Paim "Sou o precursor da Kizomba"". O País. Retrieved 2012-06-22.

Feedback Gracias por su amabilidad. Puedo leer y comentar tambien. I suggest that you read pages 100, 109, 133, 135-7 to have and idea of the polemic between Dominicans and Haitians on the origination of the word meringue. We know this already amigo. Dominican were just trying to trace the word merengue when they mentioned Angola while Haitian traced it from a French or English origination. sorry babe. There is no such thing as Angolan meringue.

There are many references in relation to the name and style have been brought there by Angolan slaves, but hard to find on the net. The Brazilians hate being told that Samba, Capoeira and Berimbau, are indeed Angolan or Angolan origin even the tango dance is originated in Angola, and the Dominicans and Haitians just do not want to study these sources correctly because they don't have interest in that. Is easy to read the Portuguese books about the national languages of Angola, and find there the origin of the word merengue and is meaning, so I still don't understand why historians don't do that, except for the only logical reason that the British hate to study story from different origins others them English origins, and that's a fact, I have done my Phd in the UK and basically they ignore references that aren't from English spoken origins. Zorglub-PRV (talk) 21:14, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

FEED BACK Contrarily to your asumption that I can not read Spanish...or the Dominican article is well documented...I am asking you to be careful in the future. It is a known fact that enslaved Africans brought their music everywhere. In fact the samba, meringue/merengue, calypso, tango, contradance...all have in common the same roots. The African brought their music to the Mores in Spain and other places way before the 16th century. All music evolve from the voice and response step...

One important factor that creates a diversity is the distance and the grouping of people from different regions. In the case of Haiti, the Chica, calenda, minuet... have been creolized in the tropics. Hispanola during the occupation was filled with many African tribes..mostly Benin, west Africa...and few others. These ancestors had to cope with everything including mixing their music with those of the masters. The meringue developed by African-Haitians was brought to the eastern part, today RD, during its occupation around 1822; some Dominican books acknowlege it. In addition, the Dominican spent a long time fighting all link with their African culture instead proning a Eurocentrism...you know that.

Let us admit for a minute that Meringue came from Angola, the questions are: would it had evolved the same way? if yes why waiting for the tours of kassav with its meringue-compas mostly to show interest in the style. Why you are ready to credit the zouk, which is in fact a meringue-compas and make a big deal when it comes to give credit to compas? I guess you know there was only one zouk style? the fast zouk beton. Since the 80s the French Antilleans have gone back to their meringue-compas roots. Finally why you cannot handle a simple discussion to the point of calling a block? Where were you and those behing the kizomba before the 80s when the Haitian meringue-compas was all over the Caribbean, Africa, South America and others? you know "Coupe Cloue" named the king in the Ivory Coast brought that slow meringue style? During the 50s, Dominica, Grenada, Martinique and Guadeloupe received the seed of the meringue-compas to become compas lands today. Take the time to listen to Cabo verdean artist Tito Paris "danca mami Creola" and tell me if there were zouk, kizomba, samba in his music. most of them were not even around. You see what I am talking about? I am not exagerating brother. Don't underestimate the person in front of you in the future.

Now unless you write your own book like I am doing it, don't just try to impose something that has no reference at all. You will have to present it and until you can do so, the Haitian meringue is the oldest reference to go with. I guess I have made the point.

I don't have any problem with anybody; my priority is to promote Haitian music played and copied without getting proper credit. This is nothing personal (regarless or race, color, gender, country...)

Regards

September 2012

During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection. Rami R 08:03, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

KIZOMBA IS NOT WHAT YOU HAVE STATED

Your definition of kizomba doesn't match the reality. I have already dicussed it with you but you haven't done any improvement. Your action seem to be dictated more by proud than objectivity. You said that you hold a Phd; so that means your work should be based on objectivity and sound arguments. If not I am certain that by ethics you would reject anything contrary to these criteria. Your kizomba definition doesn't match the reality for 3 reasons:

The Angolan merengue has not been recorded anywhere. African enslaved men and women brought everywhere with them their roots music that throughout centuries and under different places have evolved into different and close styles. Calypso in Trinidad, meringue in Haiti, samba in Brasil are examples. Haitians and Dominicans have made many attempts to trace the origination of the word meringue, which is, according to your sources, an Angolan world. This is not surprising since the colonies where populated by African men and women from different regions. The word samba meaning music composer, priest exists in the Creole language but that doesn't mean Haitien were familiar with the samba music style. If an Angolan meringue existed, people would have recorded and promoted it. Is there an Angolan discography? who featured it? therefore in absence of proof it makes sense to take it off the kizomba origination. Another consideration is the absence of the meringue-compas style as source of the kizomba. A review of many kizomba tunes has however, shown a strong similarity, even too much with meringue-konpa or zouk, the French Antillean konpa.

Kizomba all stars; 04 Nta Amado (Neusa) 02 Nha Joya (Nichols)

Kizomba Benefica: 1 Sexual Healing slan 3 Ameyatchi (Mathey) 4 Cherie mon amour/Manulima & Mark G remix (GilSemedo) 6 Voce Vai ver (feat. Juka) kizomba Brasil Juka kizomba hits vol 2 7 Pause Kizomba Axel Tony Pause kizomba 8 Heven (Mark G;s kizomba remix) Kaysha Bailar kizomba Sushiraw 11 Real Peu pen kizomba Bruno Pereira Danca de verao kizomba 12 Heaven remix 13 kizomba de roda dj Christiano 15 Samora kizomba Bruno Pereira danca de verao kizomba 17 Eu Sei (Eeat Helvio) kizomba Brasil Helvio kizomba hits vol 2 21 Soho 2012 remix light ou dj Isidora kizomba Afro Latino 24 A Cabeca Doi kizomba exitos vol 1 30 Oh Fala Bem kizomba exitos vol 1 36 Mal acostumado feat Mikas Cabral kizomba Brasil k2 vol 2 39 Sonho A Dois kizomba Grandes exitos do Brasil vol 2 42 Velha infancia Mikas Cabral, Neusa kizomba Brasil viva kizomba - Flamkim ta sta Sempre Kaysha kizomba life 17 Musiquarian feat Jacob Desvarieux Keysha 19 Acabeca Doi, etc. are real meringue-compas. You can always listen to Zekle a of the 80s and most konpa Haiti or French Antilles to see that as featured the kizomba is in fact strongly influenced by meringue-compas if not purely konpa.Pintade (talk) 21:24, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

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November 2012

Please do not add or change content, as you did to Zouk-love, without verifying it by citing reliable sources. Please review the guidelines at Misplaced Pages:Citing sources and take this opportunity to add references to the article. Thank you.

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Dear Bonadea Your interventions have sent me a mix signal: While you are committed to guiding the works of editors, however, some of your actions appear to be a little biased to me when it comes to protecting zouk articles even if they are not accurate. You have put compas music on the list of "not reliable material" without being specific. I tried to comply with your recommendations to provide with more references. What you read in the compas section is what is written in the books of many authors. However, how come kassav whose musicians were schooled in compas or cadence styles claim taday they are only a zouk band with a music repertoire of 80% compas. the fast zouk beton is a mix of gwo ka, beguine, calypso, cadence, African, etc with the full use of the MIDI technology. Now kassav discography shows a great many of compas tunes. In fact compas has been since the late 50s the basic music of the French Antilles. So I am confused here.Pintade (talk) 16:46, 27 January 2013 (UTC)Pintade (talk) 17:02, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

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January 2013

Please do not add commentary or your own personal analysis to Misplaced Pages articles, as you did to Compas music. Doing so violates Misplaced Pages's neutral point of view policy and breaches the formal tone expected in an encyclopedia. Thank you. Misplaced Pages articles do not tell people that 'X is the truth' or 'Y is strange' Dougweller (talk) 15:16, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your notice I will try to respect it. However, Most of the facts on Caribbean music have not been written yet. Some writers have done a descent job but reliable information has to be compiled. Sometimes an information is so exaggerated that you have to make a point. For example, anybody can write a questionable article and site it as reference. It is mileading. In this case I counteract with a good point based on facts. But if this is contrary to Misplaced Pages policy... Thank youPintade (talk) 13:06, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

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Kassav'

Your recent editing history at Kassav' shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

To avoid being blocked, instead of reverting please consider using the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. See BRD for how this is done. You can post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection. Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:53, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Hi

I am not deliberately engaged into an edit war with anybody; I just wish that people could live up to the criteria of reliability instead of emotion. A good example is to read that French Caribbean band kassav is only a zouk band. This is incorrect since the music repertoire of the band is 80% compas music and the band's discography is there to prove it. The fast zouk beton definition shows the inacuracy. In addition, several writers including Gage Averill, Peter Manuel, Jocelyne Guilbauld and others have written on the matter. So why continue posting false data?Pintade (talk) 16:08, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

It doesn't matter whether you are deliberately edit warring or not - you are edit warring. Disputes like this should be sorted out on the article talk page, drawing on reliable sources, rather than by reverting each other. If reliable sources demonstrate that your interpretation is correct, that's fine - but you need to discuss, and indicate what your sources are. Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:24, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

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April 2013

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It's not a personal attack but an amusing warning. I know that they won't have any valid argument to counter what I am going to post and that is the funny part. I have been dealing with them for sometimes. I have been cool enough to help with good editing.

I have made several unsuccessful attempts to work together on the cadence-lypso page but it seems propaganda is a better choice instead. I have played by the rules and even sent a warning. Actually there has never been a fusion of cadence and calypso. Exile one the originator of the word featured separated calypso, reggae and mostly cadence tunes. At least the term "cadence of Dominica" was accepted but the problem is the fact that now I read that cadence-lypso influenced compas music, kadans, soca, bouillon. How could cadence-lypso, which is nothing but the Dominica cadence, influence kadans/cadence or compas again? (kadans is the Creole term for cadence; cadence and compas are the same modern meringue named differently by two challengers Nemours and Sicot.)

Their main objective here is to lay a valid foundation for the zouk, which is in fact the French Antilles compas or cadence. The original and only zouk styles was the fast carnival zouk beton that had lost ground since the 80s. Everytime a valid correction is made, it's deleted after a few days to start with the same confusion and this has been going on over and over. How many times you receive a protection request for compas music? never. but how many time you received the same request for zouk, cadence lypso or kizomba? several times. It takes a fight for these editors to edit their exagerations.

Thank you Pintade (talk) 18:37, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

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January 1, 2014

Hi friend and good morning! Now, I try to be as precise as possible as it is just my personality to be on point with subjects of interest. Could we all just edit peacefully? As far as propaganda is concerned, there is none. I am just stating origins. Is a Haitian musician not a Haitian as well? That was also referenced, so I do not know why you would undo my edits. Seems like its personal. Not only that but the compas genre was purposely called kadan because of a rivalry but at the end of the day it is the same as it is always used in the same context each and every time. I would just like to see credit where its due and I will keep working to find more and more sources to back my claim. When you reverted me before you were off by 20 years. Well good day to you sir, hope we can begin to see eye to eye on unforeseeable topics of the future!

P.S. To clarify about Merengue. Dominican as in from the Dominican Republic not Dominica (easy confusion there), that is what it was saying it was from which is wrong. It said merengue or méringue (which is correct), as if it didn't know which to have in the article. Its a chain reaction. One genre influences the next and the next like for example "Son Cubano" which influenced Salsa music and then its final form "Timba." Its like the grandparent. Savvyjack23 (talk) 17:21, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Update! January 20, 2014

I just reviewed that last edit on Nemours Jean Baptiste and you know what that was the correct text to use. My apologies on that one! Happy editing. Savvyjack23 (talk) 17:32, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

My pleasure Sir; be assured of my commitment to present sound and objective articles to enlighten Misplaced Pages readers.Pintade (talk) 03:15, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes, I see your point on Zouk. That does make a lot of sense. Thank you for that and your commitment and contribution; our goal is very similar. Keep up the good work! Savvyjack23 (talk) 18:37, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! my pleasure!Pintade (talk) 20:03, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

January 28, 2014 (The "Real" Zouk)

Okay so since Zouk faded in the 80s, where do we go from here? Can we also added citations as well? Savvyjack23 (talk) 02:33, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

The fast carnival zouk beton, the only zouk style, was an attempt to counter compas music in the French Antilles. As a result a portion of the French Antilles population, proud to have created a proper style, has been promoting it all over, even erroneously too much. The truth is, too fast, the jump up beat zouk beton was not danceable. French Antilleans who have never stopped dancing and playing compas, have continued to use the term zouk erroneously just for the sake of keeping alive their so-called legacy. Therefore you would hear zouk love, zouk R&B...the so-called cited zouk love artists such as Erick Virgal, Jocelyn Beroard, Patrick St. Elois... are all compas artists who have grown up playing compas music ...from Difficiles de Petion Ville...Tabou combo, Skah shah to Magnum band.

Citations can be added; one is provided by Peter Manuel in his Popular Musics of the Non-Western World, Oxford University Press 1988: (...zouk may become practically indistinguishable from compas)p74

The problem with the zouk article is its exaggerations and contradictions: zouk has faded away in the 80s. compas has been the music of the French Antilles since the late 50s; so why not working together to promote one music? if you're playing compas why calling it zouk love? why tracing the origination of zouk from cadence-lypso? when cadence-lypso is the same meringue-cadence introduced by the Sicot brother or Nemours in the Caribbean in the 50s-60s? the fast zouk beton is not danceable therefore cannot share too many similarities with kadans...there is a propensity not to give credits to compas. if you you playing compas what is the need to mention that zouk influence this or that style. As I often say, pride and narcissism are not enough to create a music style.

I hope I made the point here

RegardsPintade (talk) 14:57, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes you did. Thank you for this insight. I will help look into this fact. To be frank, this makes a lot of sense. I've listened to modern-day "zouk" while listening to compas and I couldn't tell which was which. So what is the zouk that the Brazilians keep claiming? Zouk-lambada? The problem with this subject as well as the other music from the Caribbean, is the failure of these other countries outside of this hemisphere to own up to its roots and acknowledge credit where it should be due.Savvyjack23 (talk) 18:59, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Zouk lambada? simply a fiction. Originally, zouk beton is a fast carnival beat that lost ground in the 80s. Since the introduction of the mid-tempo meringue compas or cadence during the 50s, French Antilleans have adopted the music and the dance. Now what's the connection between a fast carnival beat non danceable zouk beton and the mid-tempo Brasilian samba? None. Samba, meringue, calypso, beguine and even the Cuban son...have the same African roots with a special feature. To get back to our zouk-lambada we can definitely stated that French Antilles artists have gone to Brasil featuring compas music that as usual they will promote as zouk. Kassav, which music repertoire is 90% compas has not made any mention of compas. If you look at the band's site you'll see only zouk. What can you do? Narcissism, exaggeration, propaganda. However, I always gave French Antilles credits for their contribution to compas; the problem they assume to have a proper style; they want to create confusion...confusion will allow zouk to exist...there should be no confusion at all. compas is compas as rock is rock...salsa, reggae with proper characteristics. RegardsPintade (talk) 05:12, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

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Merger proposal, and Zouk

You are absolutely right and I have been expecting it since Misplaced Pages has announced it. Believe me, should I be the decision maker there would be only one cadence article including rampa, kadans and lypso. Everybody wants to have his music genre even when it's the same music. Looking forward to working on it. regardsPintade (talk) 15:53, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

There is no such thing as "calypso combined with compas". The truth is calypso was the dominant style before cadence or compas come to Dominica. Maestro Gordon mentioned "our music" muzikanou, which include calypso and cadence. A review of cadence-lypso bands shows that Exile one for example features separate calypso, reggae and mostly cadence or compas tunes. There hasn't been any possible fusion. if yes at what level was that fusion? rhythmic? percussion? Now sticking with propaganda for many reasons is one but enlighten readers is another. So the many meringue bands tours in the Caribbean have left no influence? You would not see this resistance to the rock an roll; American do not have this resistance with English artists who adopted rock and spread it everywhere even though they had famous great bands like Beatles and others for example. Their sound was new they could have easily gotten into a new stuff band wagon. They didn't do it knowing that a music style has a range of tempo and variations as long as the basic, what Peter Manuel would call the most distinguishing features, is there. Finally, you know about references...Micheline Guilbaud was misleaded on zouk and cadence-lypso...lol..they had her listen to another music style...lol I will help you in this project. Best regardsPintade (talk) 16:30, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

I would like to possibly merge Kadans into Cadence rampa. It is the same exact thing, just the creole way of spelling it. On the kadans article page it incorrectly says that "cadence-lypso is another name for cadence/kadans" when it should say "calypso combined with compas" is the "cadence-lypso or "Dominican" kadans, which is true to the source provided and that there is no need for cadence rampa and kadans to have separate pages; both the same brought by Sicot. Do you agree? I know it can potentially cause an uproar but I have many sources that support this. I think it is absurd to have both. I've never merged articles before; could you help? Savvyjack23 (talk) 06:47, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

We both know that zouk is being unfairly written about. As you brought to my attention earlier was that this current zouk article is about "beton" the fast paced rhythm that had lost ground, and the zouk love is really compas returning to the slow beat, and that is the zouk heard (compas) of today. The Zouk love page itself should be renamed to zouk while the current zouk page should be moved into zouk beton. However, it should note on the new zouk page (zouk love), that "zouk love" is another way of saying zouk of today. I also found sources for this as well. Once it is sourced properly, it would make it hard for someone to revert and it could possibly warrant a block indifferently. We know they cannot provide evidence, even the references they provide tell a different tale. I feel like the subject can be overwhelming due to the propaganda but I think it can be accomplished. From here, it will set up the rest of the articles on the right foot. Savvyjack23 (talk) 06:47, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

Ok Savvyjack23, with your help we will reach that objective.Pintade (talk) 16:34, 7 March 2014 (UTC)

!Hola! Savvyjack23 take a look at the cadence rampa article to see for yourself. You have started the merging on a good step; we'll gradually improve it with concisions and references. I guess it ready...ThanksPintade (talk) 00:15, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Yes, you are very welcome. Indeed the table is set! Savvyjack23 (talk) 09:12, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

In regards to the fusion of konpa and calypso the reference is here. If this is going to be resolved, we have to try to find mutual ground. This article will be used by them to counter what you are saying. We still know it is konpa or konpa derived; therefore credit is given to its creator. For example "mini-jazz" isn't the same as American jazz since konpa direk rhymes are used as well. But is it not jazz? Of course it is. It doesn't discredit the creator. I don't see cadence-lypso trying to undermine cadence. In fact, they are the ones who are actually giving credit by keeping the name "cadence" in the name, unlike zouk love. Savvyjack23 (talk) 09:34, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

You have good intentions, however, I fear you might involuntarily be willing to create a platform for propaganda. I am familiar with your sources therefore beware of contradictions. Jocelyne Guilbaud has not always been objective. Your #1 reference source is replete with inaccuracies and contradictions: - Mazouk, which has its origine in the polka???? - Cadence-lypso combines calypso with konpa (really?) again konpa is only a Creole music genre (minimization)? - Dominican exponents of cadence-lypso are exile one, Orphelia? (both have mostly a cadence/compas repertoire)? - zouk music from Martinique and soca arrived in Dominica in the 1980s and its eclipsed cadence-lypso? The same people stated that cadence-lypso gave rise to soca? - Must funny part: zouk take its influence from reggae and salsa? also: soca is a fusion of calypso and Trinidadian Indian music? really?

Reference #2 contradicts ref. #1 in many occasions. Do you realize how sublime is the zouk? something that only last less than 5 years? you can also read several statements I made also.

I see two alternatives to help: first I can allow them to add their contradictory statement and add my version in the same article Second alternative: fight them on the basis of inconsistency. I am almost done with my book on music in the world.

RegardsPintade (talk) 04:07, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

This is even in my own source about the fusion. This source has been very reliable for me. Savvyjack23 (talk) 10:34, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

Cadence rampa and kadans merger complete. Let's try to keep it and move on to the problems with the zouk page. I issued a indefinite block warning to 203.205.126.84 in regards to his latest edits to méringue and compas. Savvyjack23 (talk) 20:43, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks!this guy is a pain; he doesn't understand anything just a passionate. Ok I was traveling by tomorrow I will have some free time and I will start it. by the way, have you sent me your phone number?Pintade (talk) 06:01, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Savvyjack23: It has become not easy to edit the zouk page I have attempted a several times without success.Pintade (talk) 02:15, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Pintade: troisquatreseptdeuxsixseptzérohuitquatrehuit

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Message

Sure thing! Also, make sure when you come out with your book, to spell it "méringue," otherwise people will think your publishing a cookbook lol. (See the meringue dessert) I also found something new today. Angolan, semba is also compas and heard twoubadou sounds in another song but doubt they were calling it that. See the videos on this page There's also yet another editor of semba music denying Haitian influence saying that it came before it; little does he know that it probably didn't come before méringue. It just never stops... Savvyjack23 (talk) 06:53, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks

First let me thanks you for you convincing reply to the guys on the "coladeira" Second, don't worry the tittle is already there and the book is 70% done. By the way, one should be a little careful: meringue, samba, beguine, etc. have in common the same basic feature, the cinquillo; the difference is within a variation among them. The Angolan and other African tribes spread their music to Spain (the Mores) and Brazil. These styles are sisters. Now I agree with a certain meringue influence; the direct compas has influenced them big time. Also the meringue cake is not too convincing as a reliable origination for the tittle meringue, same is the word marrying.

Thank you

gene.50@live.com Pintade (talk) 17:04, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

September 2014

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Notice

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is Compas. Thank you. —/Mendaliv//_Δ's/ 22:57, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

I started another discussion at here. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 02:06, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

Cadence rampa

Is this name-calling referring to me? I removed everything since it is unsourced pursuant to WP:V. As for "the original article", feel free to restore it all if you can provide sources for it but otherwise it needs to be removed. If you disagree, there's a discussion at WP:ANI right now. -- 05:03, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Now that's how you view an act of vandalism? name calling that is all you can retain here? what about the vandalism on the compas page to benefit the cadence-lypso article? why don't you read the contradictions and irrelevances" from the cadence-lypso and zouk pages? Have you read about the influence and the presence Haitian meringue in the Caribbean and Cuba, south America and even in North America? do I need to lecture to enlighten you about the cadence rampa of the Sicot brothers and Nemours who toured the Caribbean in the 50s to cement the seed of their music? isn't that obvious to you? Now everything is fusion while they dance and feature the same music...Not everyboday has time to waste in vain editing because of fanatics. If you go left and right and called an existing music another name you cannot expect zero reactions....so create a music style that you won't acknowledge while you want to get credit renaming it? this is funny Pintade (talk) 05:15, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

I have no idea who's in the right here because neither of you include any sources. Lecture me all you way but if you want to be taken seriously, then you need to provide proof why you are in the right and the other views are wrong. Rather than let the arguing continue as it has for close to a year, I'd rather cut everything out and let the person who can actually support their theory go at it. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 06:57, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

                                             Feedback

I would believe that after all these years of exchange you would have had a clear idea on who has been objective? Everything I said is all over the net and mostly in the books of Peter Manuel (Musics of Non Western World, Gage Averil (A day for the Prey a day for the hunter, Cartier (Les blancs debarquent, Jean Fouchard (La meringue dance Haitienne), (Haiti and the Antebeluum), etc.

Haitian music started its influence since 1800s over the world music (Cuba, Puerto Rico, South America, etc.) I guess you know about Latin artists who all featured meringue tunes? from Celias Cruz, Daniel Santos, Oscar de Leon..American Harry Belafonte, etc.

You know that prior to Haitian tours within the Caribbean there was no such music? After 1955 the Caribbean was initiated to the meringue cadence or compas? French Antilleans artists were playing marzouka, beguine, meringue/merengue and Latin.

What is obvious and you don't want to admit or understand is the fact that all these Islands want to have a proper music legacy. Therefore we hear about fusion, merger, etc. while in fact they are featuring the same music including dance and style. Have you listened to a so-called cadence-lypso tune in comparison with a compas tunes? what's the difference? What is the zouk music? cannot be defined with accuracy: why it faded away In the same 80s? this fast carnival beat was undanceable this is why the Antilleans people have never stopped dancing compas or cadence. English men and women alike French and others have adopted rock n roll without renaming it till today; why French Antilleans have instead taken the liberty to call compas zouk? when they have been initiated to this style since the 50s?

Why when touring kassav and other French Antilles artists promote compas as zouk? the same compas music including the dance and music? So Haitian should sit down and let people they initiated to their music renamed it and take full credit?

what more do you need to be convinced of the real fact? isn't that obvious? You can easily differentiate objectivity from propaganda. I provided with sound references most of the time while they invented references from one source, Jocelyne Guilbault and mostly the internet.

I have nothing else to show you in order to convince you since you can either ask them or throughout the inconsistencies contained in their articles you'll see the truth. I do not get paid as a contributor. I am busy. So if I take the time as a book writer to research and poste these articles it does make sense to let anybody dictated by narcissism to just erase everything for the sake of existing. Take the time using your analytic skills and see the passion and contradictions, inconsistencies...of these articles. Take the time to think also about Haitian contribution to the world music before and after the 50s. Best Regards2604:2000:B167:D100:D16C:7F00:A5A7:A8E1 (talk) 13:00, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Here a good example of inconsistency and irrelevance. Use your analytic skills and you'll see my point Sir. This is why allowing egotistic neophytes to vandalize objective articles with references is some how offensive. Haitian musicians have not only created cadence, compas and other styles but they have schooled other countries to their music. These discussions shouldn't have taken place at all. it is like asking American people to justify their rock n roll music...this is really offensive.

[ IT WAS NEVER CALLED DOMINICA KADANS UNTIL RECENTLY, (Cadence was on the album covers of grammacks and exile one. second, these bands featured cadence music (music and dance). 3) Haitian Webert Sicot introduced the name cadence as the first cadence band.4) cadence and compas are both the same meringue only differenciated by name for rivalry purpose THAT'S WHERE THE CONFUSION STARTED. CADENCE-LYPSO STARTED AS A MIX OF KADANS AND CALYPSO, BUT THE STYLE DEVELOPED MORE AS KADANS. see the irrelevance and contradictions? mix? the band featured separate calypso, some reggae and mostly cadence tunes.2) but the style developed more as a kadans? AS DOMINICAN BANDS STARTED INTRODUCING THE SYNTHESIZERS, A FULL-HRON SECTION INFLUENCED BY CALYPSO/FUNK, ROCK GUITARS, SOUL-STYLE VOCALS AND FUNKY BASSLINES....THIS IS WHEN THE COMPAS STARTED ITS MODERNIZATION TO ZOUK MUSIC. The introduction of new instrument doesn't make a new style; they proud themselves for introducing sinthesizer already in use in pop and rock bands? 2) The mini-jazz (Tabou combo, les Gypsies, etc) that preexisted these Dominican bands had already introduced funky basslines and rock guitars. In addition they think they were the only band in the Caribbean to use a horn section, which Haitian heavy meringue bands have used for years since the brass bands of the 1800s. IT'S TRUE THAT THE MUSIC MAITAINED THE CADENCE OR COMPAS BEAT See the inconsistency here? maintained the compas or cadence beat. this is exactly the basic features of a music style (EX. THE COWBELL AND TAMBORA DRUM, NOT SO MUCH THE CONGA. THE USE OF THE CYMBAL, WHICH ALSO PLAY THE SAME RHYTHM OF THE JING PING GWAJ. THIS RHYTHM IS ALSO FOUND IN THE "TIBWA" AND MARACAS/RATTLE-SCRAPER RHYTHMS PLAYED ON THE BELE, BIGUINE AND CHOUVAL BWA FROM THE FRENCH ANTILLES. ALL THIS BECAME PART OF THE STYLE THAT LATER EVOLVED INTO ZOUK, THOUGHT COMPAS LEFT THE BIGGEST INFLUENCE.See? there is a lack of music skills; they are talking with passion without a valid case. they are talking at the same time about the fast (faded away since the 80) zouk beton and the compas that they called zouk. See the confusion IT ALL STARTED WITH COMPAS, BUT THIS DOMINICA KADANS OR INFLUENCE COMING FROM DOMINICA AND THE FRENCH ANTILLES HAVE CHANGED COMPAS FROM THE MORE LATIN FEELING INTO A MORE COMMERCIAL GENRE OF MUSIC. See the irrelevance? because of that it is not compas anymore? COMPAS IS BEING PROMOTED OR SHOULD I SAY HAVE BEEN PROMOTED....ZOUK OR ZOUK LOVE ALWAYS BEEN A ROMANTIC GENRE SPEAKING ABOUT LOVE ISSUES, WHILE COMPAS WAS MORE UP TEMPO AND AGGRESSIVE. TODAY, COMPAS IS FOLLOWING THE SAME PATTERN AS ZOUK LOVE OR COMPAS LOVE. THAT'S WHERE THE CONFUSION STARTED. but zouk is danced the same way as compas; the same technic, rhythmic, instrumentation...you see now? This "editor" cannot make the difference between music style, genre, influence and innovation. ]Pintade (talk) 13:50, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

November 2014

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. We welcome and appreciate your contributions, including your edits to Coladeira, but we cannot accept original research. Original research refers to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist; it also encompasses combining published sources in a way to imply something that none of them explicitly say. Please be prepared to cite a reliable source for all of your contributions. Thank you. —/Mendaliv//_Δ's/ 02:11, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

== And according to you, these unreliable links that any neophyte can produce are objective data? The Caribbean music has yet to be written. Most of the data are testimonies from living musicians and other players. There are also books on Caribbean music. Gage Averill and Peter Manuel are two of them. I am in the process of completing a book on Caribbean music. I have provided some valuable information to Misplaced Pages until the publishing. By the way neither the kizomba, the coladeira no the zouk articles has provided many sound references. I am committed to improving these articles from exagerations. The compas article is in term of sound data more reliable. By next year it will be greatly improved.

Finally Sir, As I mentioned it before, it is kind of offensive to put so much pressure on the compas article while leaving the door wide open for propaganda and unsubstantiated material in other articles. I don't think there is any biased however.Pintade (talk) 02:32, 30 November 2014 (UTC)