Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 19:42, 14 July 2006

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Removal of repeated religions

Also, I have made some minor edits, removing duplication. I am fairly confident that ISKCON (Hare Krishna) should be considered a Dharmic faith. Also usually considered Dharmic are Vedanta and Bhakti Yoga. Similarly, Pentecostalism is usually regarded as a recognised Christian denomination. I consider Jewish Buddhism to be a form of Buddhism, but not Judaism. Also, I think Falun Gong is best described as a Chinese NRM, because it's base on qigong practice, however I accept other descriptions would be plausible. Similarly, I think Aum Shinrikyo is best describe as a Japenese NRM, again other descriptions could possibly be more appropriate. Also the Unification Church is best considered a Christian NRM and Juche a non-religious movement. Sufism is usually considered part of Islam, while Theosophy is considered part of the western magical tradition. Finally, Gnosticism and Hemereticism are probably best described as revealed religions instead of esoteric or mystical beliefs. If there was an overwhelmingly good reason for all of these duplications, then I'll reinstate them. 80.189.68.138 12:57, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

List of Religions, not Generic Terms for Religious Practice

Would anyone object if the following were deleted because they are not religions, but generic terms for practice:

Astrology

Exorcism

Faith Healing

Meditation

Miracles

Prayer

Prophecy

Sacrifice (inc. Animal/Human)

Spirituality (Not Spiritualism, which is a religion)

Worship

80.189.225.243 19:17, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good to me, go ahead and remove them. -- Jeff3000 01:46, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Other New Religious Movements

There are other NRMs listed in other wiki articles that I am beginning to include, if there are no objections. 80.189.196.205 14:59, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

In doing so, I have slightly expanded and reorganised the Christian and Buddhist sections. Again, if there was an overwhelmingly good reason for the previous system, then obviously I'll revert. 80.189.193.201 15:36, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Matrixism: the path of the One

Matrixism is included in the following books about religious movements:

"Religion and Popular Culture: A Hyper-Real Testament" Dr. Adam Possamai, Peter Lang Publishing Group 2005 ISBN 90-5201-272-5 / US-ISBN 0-8204-6634-4 pb.

"The Joy of Sects" Sam Jordison Publisher: Robson Books Publication Date: 7 November 2005 ISBN 1861059051

"In Search of New Age Spiritualities" Adam Possamai, Ashgate Publishing, Ltd. 2005 ISBN 0754652130

Matrixism has also been mention in many newspaper articles and is listed on the course syllabi for various university courses on religious studies. This is a very much more than can be said for many of the religions on Misplaced Pages's "List of Religions". See for examples the content and references for McMahonism and Church of the Universe. 71.139.66.105 18:47, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Matrixism has been deleted twice, as recently as of May 20th 2006. See Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Matrixism Since it is not significant enough to be a Misplaced Pages article, it is not significant enough to be on this page. The first step is to get the article to not be deleted based on verifiable information, and then it can be included here. -- Jeff3000 19:07, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

That is verifiable information. In fact if you were to do a Google book search for "matrixism" you would find the latter of the three books listed above. There you can access the book's index and verify that Matrixism is discussed on page 120. While Matrixism does not have a Misplaced Pages article, and the reasons for this are debatable, it does have a re-direct to the Misplaced Pages page on The Matrix where its website can be accessed.71.139.66.105 19:27, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Verifiability is not the only thing that allows for inclusion in Misplaced Pages. Notability is also important, and as noted in Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Matrixism, Matrixism is not notable enough. The article on The Matrix makes no mention of Matrixism, except the same spam link is included. -- Jeff3000 20:09, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

How do you define notability other than something is verifiably noted? Matrixism is notable enough to be included in books, newspapers and in college courses on religion. In what other way should it be notable? 71.139.66.105 20:18, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Let's put it this way: the first result on a Google search is a Geocities personal webpage. If you can provide links to websites to establish the notability of Matrixism (say, New York Times articles, and such), you're welcome to. At the moment, I'm very doubtful of the notability. It's not that I hate you, I'm sure you enjoy yourself and I wish you nothing but the best; at the same time, however, if we list every last bit of information on every subject, Misplaced Pages becomes unreadable -- thus, Misplaced Pages is not an indiscriminate collection of information, and thus notability is a concern. Hope that makes sense. Happy to discuss further, if you have new points. Luna Santin 20:34, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

The New York Times is hardly the measure of notability. If it were many of the religions on the "list of Religions" would not be there. As for Matrixism's website being a personal site. That is a huge assumption on your part. It is a Geocities website without adds. That means that it is paid for and hosted just like any other URL. Three books and references in the Sydney Morning Herald and the British newspaper The Sun is very much notable. This is especially true when this standard is applied to the other religions listed on Misplaced Pages. 69.226.105.161 00:40, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

If Matrixism is notable, why has it been deleted twice as being non-notable. You have not made the case. You have evaded your block by using another IP, and I have reported you to an administrator. -- Jeff3000 00:46, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Clearly I have demonstrated that Matrixism is indeed notable or you would not use this argument. I believe the invalid reasons that the article on Matrixism have been deleted previously are three:

1. Matrixism involves the use of what are considered illicit substances.

2. The URL that Matrixism uses is Geocities.

3. Christians, Baha'is and others have a vested interest in keeping Matrixism down.

69.226.105.161 00:52, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I offered the NYT as an easy example, not as a concrete standard. If other items should be removed from the list, out of notability concerns, we'll take care of that. For the time being, we need to be convinced that Matrixism is notable. I was unable to find any evidence of The Sun mentioning Matrixism. A search of the archives, going back five years, under the term "matrixism," turned up zero results. Please provide a link or links to reliable, independent sources, so that we can verify one or more of your claims. Luna Santin 05:34, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

The article noting Matrixism can be seen on The Sun's website at: http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,5-2005590116,00.html. The article in the Sydney Morning Herald can be seen on their website at: http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/Theyre-all-god-movies/2005/05/18/1116361618786.html. 69.225.13.17 18:53, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I can likewise confirm that a NewsBank (world/UK) newspaper archive search finds no reference to Matrixism in The Sun or anywhere else. Furthermore, we're being misled over the book references: these refer to a different matrixism, a mystical/subatomic concept coined by Jean Charon in the 1970s, and nothing to do with the movie. Tearlach 15:39, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I have read all of the books referenced above that concern Matrixism. In each one they are specifically talking about the Matrixism whose website is: http://www.geocities.com/matrixism2069. The books even go so far as to refer to this website by its url. I am glad that you have gone out of your way to tell a bold faced lie such as this. It proves my point that people are using unjust, untruthful and invalid tactics to keep Matrixism out of Misplaced Pages. 69.225.13.17 18:53, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, but you have not made any valid notability arguments. Please show me one. Indeed you have violated your blocked, went past 3RR multiple times, and not assumed good faith. I am trying to uphold Misplaced Pages policy, and you are going againt it, even by not accepting that the external link should not be in the page. -- Jeff3000 01:02, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I responded to the rebuttals made above and have factually proved them wrong. The fact that people have misrepresented the truth in this regard bolsters my argument by showing that people have indeed been using unfair and invalid tactics to keep Matrixism out of wikipedia. 69.225.13.17 19:09, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. No valid notability arguments. The link is spam and should be reverted as such, as many times as are necessary until all the vandal's IP's have been blocked. Kasreyn 01:22, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Please see responses to the false arguments that were presented above. I expect of course that Jeff will not change his mind because he is a Baha'i and has a vested interest in squelching Matrixism. 69.225.13.17 18:53, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I have left a welcome message and a link to User:Lar/linkspam (with an explanation) on User talk:69.226.105.161. Hopefully that will help somewhat in explaining the issues here. KillerChihuahua 14:59, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Once again, you have not provided any notability reasons for inclusion, and secondly you have constantly went against Misplaced Pages policy by including the External Link, in addition to going against 3RR and block-evading policies. -- Jeff3000 19:12, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Jeff you are turning a blind eye to an obvious amount of significant evidence. One can only assume that your extreme bias is because you are a follower of the Baha'i Faith and thus dispise Matrixism so much that you cannot consider it objectively. Perhaps you consider removing yourself from this discussion due to your bias. 69.225.13.17 19:42, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Chinese Catholicism

I have moved the Chinese Catholic association to Christian NRMs, which is possibly incorrect, for example they have a reasonably large following. Any suggestions on how Non-Roman Catholics could be listed? 80.189.2.155 18:00, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

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