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Revision as of 12:56, 28 December 2014 view sourceRyulong (talk | contribs)218,132 editsm →Request concerning Loganmac← Previous edit Revision as of 20:46, 28 December 2014 view source Gamaliel (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Autopatrolled, Administrators93,878 edits →The Devil's Advocate: hatting stale discussionNext edit →
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==The Devil's Advocate== ==The Devil's Advocate==
{{hat|After a week, there is no evidence of continuing insertions of offending material, so there is nothing sanctionable here. All parties are reminded that talk page discussions must be compliant with BLP. ] <small>(])</small> 20:46, 28 December 2014 (UTC)}}
<small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br>Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small> <small>''This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. <br>Requests may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.''</small>


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* ''Breitbart'''s poor reputation for reliability and its shoddy treatment of living individuals make it impossible to use as a source for BLPs or other sensitive topics. Given that, there's no reason for such a link to be present on the talk page. Editors are reminded that talk pages are not discussion forums and since there is no chance of this link being used as a source for the article, there is no reason for this link to remain on the talk page. I will not impose sanctions for editors who have inserted the link on the talk page in good faith, but now that this matter has been brought here, be aware that persistently reinserting the link to a clearly unreliable source amounts to sanctionable disruptive editing. ] <small>(])</small> 16:13, 21 December 2014 (UTC) * ''Breitbart'''s poor reputation for reliability and its shoddy treatment of living individuals make it impossible to use as a source for BLPs or other sensitive topics. Given that, there's no reason for such a link to be present on the talk page. Editors are reminded that talk pages are not discussion forums and since there is no chance of this link being used as a source for the article, there is no reason for this link to remain on the talk page. I will not impose sanctions for editors who have inserted the link on the talk page in good faith, but now that this matter has been brought here, be aware that persistently reinserting the link to a clearly unreliable source amounts to sanctionable disruptive editing. ] <small>(])</small> 16:13, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
{{hab}}


==Ksolway== ==Ksolway==

Revision as of 20:46, 28 December 2014

Notice of obsolescence:
Community sanctions in this area of conflict have been superseded by an Arbitration Committee sanctions regime. As a result, this community sanctions-related page is now obsolete, is retained only for historical reference, and should not be modified. For more information about Arbitration Committee sanctions, see this page. For the specific Committee decision that rescinded or modified these community sanctions, see WP:ARBGG.


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The Devil's Advocate

After a week, there is no evidence of continuing insertions of offending material, so there is nothing sanctionable here. All parties are reminded that talk page discussions must be compliant with BLP. Gamaliel (talk) 20:46, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning The Devil's Advocate

User who is submitting this request for enforcement
NorthBySouthBaranof (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 08:31, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
User against whom enforcement is requested
The Devil's Advocate (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

The Devil's Advocate is persistently reinserting into Talk:Gamergate controversy a link to a categorically-unreliable source which contains defamatory claims, private information and outright falsehoods about living people, despite being warned. There have been extensive discussions on the talk page, and based upon extensive discussions at RSN, there is a clear and unambiguous consensus that Breitbart does not uphold anything resembling journalistic standards, has a longstanding history of hoaxing, misrepresentation and falsification, and has no business being used in anything remotely connected to living people. There is, then, absolutely no reason to leave this link on the page. Yet TDA has described its removal on BLP grounds as "ridiculous" and "not remotely valid." I suggest that edit-warring to retain this unhelpful, unusable and outright-defamatory link anywhere in the encyclopedia is inappropriate.

Breitbart is not a "contentious" source, it is outright rejected for anything remotely approaching living persons issues. As MastCell aptly summed up in the debate that TDA linked to:
The criteria for assessing a source's reliability include a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. The Breitbart websites do not have such a reputation. In fact, quite the opposite: they have a reputation for publishing misleading or false information, often about living people, in service of their political agenda. (Examples include the deceptively edited videotape which led to the resignation of Shirley Sherrod; a news article falsely claiming that Paul Krugman had filed for bankruptcy; and publishing recklessly false criminal allegations which cost a private citizen his job; see and , among others).

It's puzzling to hear editors defend the use of a source with this sort of abominable history of dishonesty. We shouldn't be citing this source, because it lacks a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy, and it has a history of recklessly harming people with false or misleading material. We should absolutely avoid its use in any situation with WP:BLP implications. And frankly, editors who defend the use of a source like this forfeit a lot of credibility when it comes to assessing source quality and reliability.

The article in question contains private information; vile, unfounded, highly-defamatory assertions sourced to blogs, screenshots and YouTube links; entirely-unsupported implications, and is absolutely, 100% unacceptable in any Misplaced Pages space. Misplaced Pages is not a place for Gamergate supporters to spread their accusations about Zoe Quinn. The WP:BLPTALK exemption ceases to apply once it's determined that the questioned source is unusable or unacceptable, and we are long, long past that point here. As the policy states, Questionable claims already discussed can be removed with a reference to the previous discussion. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 09:12, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
If TDA believes there are unsupported defamatory allegations in another article that is not a reliable source, that should be presented on the talk page for discussion and potential removal. It doesn't excuse or permit unsupported defamatory allegations in the link in question. NorthBySouthBaranof (talk) 09:55, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Discussion concerning The Devil's Advocate

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by The Devil's Advocate

Breitbart is certainly a contentious source, but there is constant debate about whether to use it on here (indeed, there is one debate going on right now) because many editors consider it reliable and it is generally seen as reliable as a source of opinion. Redacting a link to it on the talk page claiming it as a BLP violation is just patently absurd. Baranof's claim that it contains false allegations is incorrect. Nothing contained within that piece is demonstrably false. It is definitely a partisan piece that makes a few assumptions about the motivations or character of a living individual, but we already have plenty of that kind of material in the article already. It is not a BLP violation to link to that article on the talk page. An additional problem here is that Baranof explained why he believed Breitbart was not acceptable by citing the Misplaced Pages article on Breitbart and minutes later Baranof was heavily slanting material on that very article, misrepresenting the sources in the process.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 09:01, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

GamerGate is not a BLP and nothing suggests there was any intention to make BLP claims with any of the listed sources. The only private information contained within the Breitbart piece, from what I can tell, is the legal name of an individual. Currently, we include a piece by Amanda Marcotte in the GamerGate article and that source actually does make vile and demonstrably false claims about the individual's ex-boyfriend. Originally, Marcotte's false claims about the ex-boyfriend were actually included in the article itself. Baranof is edit-warring to redact a link to Breitbart on the talk page merely for making unverified claims about this individual.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 09:52, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

On this point, Gamaliel, I really am going to have insist that you are WP:INVOLVED given your very strong views regarding Breitbart.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 19:08, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Ryulong

This is the only article by Amanda Marcotte in use on Gamergate controversy. Zoe Quinn's ex-boyfriend is unnamed in the article in question and The Devil's Advocate is not clear as to what "vile and demonstrably false claims" it contains about him. TDA is yet again abusing policy and falsely claiming violations of policy to get his way.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 10:30, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

In a tangent, it seems that one article is in the references twice.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 10:49, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Masem, there is no way that Milo Yiannopoulos' insertion of himself into the controversy makes him a notable voice to be able to allow linking to an article that defames living persons.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 20:26, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
IIRC the whole problem with Gamergate controversy was that it was host to every single BLP violation under the sun about Zoe Quinn. Or her page became all about the controversy. I can't remember exactly. But the issue is that Mr. Yiannopoulos's reputation, and the reputation of his employer, precedes him. When we know that his piece isn't about ethics in video game journalism but an attack on one person (or several, again, haven't read it in forever) then we should be extra careful not to continue including it.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 21:40, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Loganmac

I really think this discussion is more apt for the reliable source noticeboard, I see that Breitbart isn't accepted but often this leads me to believe it's because they're right wing, while I would bash the site anywhere else that isn't Misplaced Pages since I'm leftist, in a place where we're supposed to be neutral is really telling of the editors. The scandals listed on the Breitbart articles are well cited innacuracies, but we're acting here as if well reputable sources like The Guardian are never wrong, every outlet will put out falsehoods. In my opinion Breitbart should hold for the opinion of its authors, in a due manner, but when you got sources like BoingBoing and BuzzFeed, or Gawker for that matter, being accepted at times by the same editors who constantly edit the GamerGate article, it's often impossible to not see a bias. Banning TDA for this is ridiculous, one could even argue NorthBySouth is injecting his own bias into the Breitbart article as he has with other articles he sees as even mildly defending GamerGate Loganmac (talk) 15:58, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Masem

Just as a quick comment: if there is a Breitbart link about GamerGate, it is likely been written by Milo, who is a central figure of the GG situation (in that he is primarily the only really well established person even if working for an often unreliable source that has spoken in a positive manner towards supporting GG. Mind you, Milo does resort to some questionable journalistic aspects. But my point is here that if we are talking about an opinion piece written by a figure directly involved in a situation, even if that opinion piece comes from a source that we normally consider unreliable, and perhaps may include some statements that border on BLP, that does not invalidate any discussion of that source on the talk if it is reasonable to include the non-BLP-violating claims in the article, and that of course necessitates linking to the article in question. On the other hand, if we are talking a Breitbart piece by someone that has no connection to the events but tosses up BLP issues, yeah, that's probably not a good thing to be including. One has to remember that BLP/BLPTALK is to prevent WP or its editors from making unsubstantiated claims about living persons, but does not prevent discussion of inclusion of possible sources where BLP claims may be made among other more appropriate content, as long as the discussion or goal of the discussion is not about attempting to repeat any unsubstantiated claims within WP. --MASEM (t) 17:36, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

To Ryulong: just because Milo has decided to get involved and has been the most visible reporter that favors GG does not mean we simply ignore that (there are other reasons to avoid Brietbart sources, as well as some of Milo's opinions too). Of course if he wrote a piece that was 100% a BLP attack on somebody, yeah, zero chance we'd be using that, but to link to an article that is 90% about his opinion and 10% is some questionable BLP stuff, that doesn't make the article invalid as a point of discussion per BLPTALK. For example, there are reliable sources we have in place already that mention some of the other charges that Gyoni put about Quinn in his post that are otherwise not part of the larger GG issue. We aren't going to discuss those in the GG article nor the Quinn article nor anywhere else on WP because that is straight up a BLP violation as the charges are unfounded/unverified/unsubstantiated, but that doesn't invalidate those sources since the BLP claims are not the focus of the article. BLP is meant to prevent WP trying to perpetuate unsubstantiated BLP claims, not necessary to prevent any potentially BLP-violating source from being linked in the context of BLPTALK. Poor sources, and sources that only exist to make BLP violations, obviously yes, but not ones where the possible BLP violation is a secondary thought to the topic at hand. Of course, if it is the case that the specific Breitbart article was linked before, and determined to be a BLP violation by previous discussion, and redacted then, redacting it when a new editor brings it up is fine. --MASEM (t) 20:42, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Strongjam

The article is far worse then the article that Avono received a month long topic ban for. TDA re-inserted the link multiple times after BLP concerns were raised and was not unaware of Brietbart's reliability issues, even themself noting issues with Breitbart. Far more then just a warning is warranted. — Strongjam (talk) 20:31, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

@Super Goku V: The diff shows TDA was aware of the specific reliability concerns other editors have with Brietbart, even if he disagreed with consensus. — Strongjam (talk) 01:15, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Super Goku V

As a question, does it matter when NorthBySouthBaranof first made a reference to the discussion over Breitbart? From what I could tell, NBSB was originally making the claim to retract the article based on what reputation they believed it to have with a reference to our article on it. However, unless I am mistaken, NBSB never referenced any discussion at all on Breitbart until this request was made. If policy states, Questionable claims already discussed can be removed with a reference to the previous discussion, then I fail to see how that part applies without a reference to a past discussion. --Super Goku V (talk) 04:36, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

To Strongjam: To quote the rest of your diff, "(...) You could say that about pretty much every major news outlet. In-text attribution is more than sufficient to cover for that." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Super Goku V (talk • contribs)

@Strongjam: The diff shows TDA was being civil when replying to a user who earlier had an issue with sourcing claims by Milo Yiannopoulos, a central figure in this issue, and not disagreeing with consensus. To sum up what TDA said: Breitbart has made mistakes before. Almost every major outlet has made the same mistakes before. Attributing the article to the source could solve the issue brought up.
My belief, TDA was only noting that a majority of sources, no matter the size, have made these mistakes and was engaging in discussion to come up with a compromise. Considering how Yiannopoulos has become a central figure in this controversy, attribution was apparently considered to be the best solution. I will note that TDA has participated in discussions about Breitbart, though the claim that he disagreed with consensus is not supported in that diff. --Super Goku V (talk)

@Collect: This is the diff you are citing, correct? --Super Goku V (talk) 07:50, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

@Collect: I will take that as correct, but would you cite your diffs by linking to them on your statement? --Super Goku V (talk) 08:33, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Collect

Where an admin is WP:INVOLVED on any article specifically regarding the use of Breitbart, such an admin should so note and not place comments as an "uninvolved administrator." ("changed visibility of a revision on page America (2014 film)" admin action) multiple edits on that film (actions as editor), and voicing strong opposition to use of Breitbart as an editor on the article talk page ("This is exactly the opposite of what happened. The SPA who is the chief proponent of including Brietbart has spent hundreds of edits arguing about it in practically every noticeboard on Misplaced Pages. Gamaliel (talk) 17:50, 23 December 2014 (UTC)") Where a editor with a pronounced animus posts on this page, they ought to do so as an ordinary comment, and not as an "uninvolved administrator" Collect (talk) 22:33, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

@SG - one of more than a hundred examples where the one admin makes his case that he loathes Breitbart - he also hatted a discussion in which he had participated as an editor at NPOV/N on 6 August etc. The use of "uninvolved" at this point is outré, alas. And his apparent statement that he will use his admin mop to enforce his personal opinion is disquieting. Collect (talk) 12:16, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

@SG They are all findable quite readily - but the case at hand is not about him, nor a place to present "evidence" about third parties, so I stuck to the issue of whether a person qualifies as "uninvolved" which he clearly does not. Thus only his words (unless he denies them, of course) are relevant here. Collect (talk) 13:24, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Statement by uninvolved A Quest for Knowledge

Hi, I'm one of the numerous volunteers at the Reliable Sources and the Biographies of Living People noticeboards. My understanding is that WP:BLP applies to all of Misplaced Pages - article-space as well as talk pages, the Noticeboards, the Reference Desk, the Help Desk, as well as non-article pages, and their talk pages. But it does not apply to pages off-site to Misplaced Pages.

  • The alleged two BLP violations do not appear to be on Misplaced Pages. Instead, alleged BLP violations are off-Wiki where BLP does not apply.
  • If a good faith editor asks at WP:RSN or WP:BLPN whether a website is a reliable source about a living person, how should we handle it? If it turns out that the source is not reliable, should we sanction the editor because they posted the link?
  • If so, we have a huge backlog of editors at WP:RSN and WP:BLPN which need to be sanctioned. Which admin(s) would like to volunteer for this task?

Admins of these sanctions are authorized to carry out the will of the community; but no more, and no less. They are NOT authorized to invent novel interpretations of WP:BLP. Specifically, there is no policy which states that BLP applies to off-Wikipidia sites. I suggest that anyone who disagrees with the existing BLP policy is entitled to that opinion, but the correct course of action is to start an RfC to have BLP changed. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 19:31, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Statement by TheRedPenOfDoom

Statement by DHeyward

Breitbart is fine as source depending on context. Reliable sources are known to have oversights and errors. Breitbart is no different. ArbCom is reviewing all conduct including commenting admins and users. There is no reason to act prior to the arbCom decision and process Doing so would be strikingly provocative ans a usurpation of authority. Gamaliel's dislike of Breitbart is easily discovered in his editing history and his view as an uninvolved admin should be discounted. --DHeyward (talk) 07:39, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

For point-by-point Sherrod was fired by the Obama administration because of pressure by the NAACP because the audience was applauding in an inappropriate place which put the NAACP in a bad light. The full audio exonerated Sherrod to an extent, but not necessarily the audience. NPR fired Juan Williams for nearly an identical incident of selective editing where he described personal feelings he had to overcome. "Gotcha" quote journalism are nothing knew and Breitbart isn't the inventor. NPR runs about 2 corrections per day. The Paul Krugman story was originally from another source, not Breitbart. Other outlets ran the story. As for innocent ACORN employee, all firings were done by ACORN after ACORN investigated violations of the organizations policy. The statement he "publish recklessly false criminal allegations" is a HUGE BLP violation since no such finding ever happened. O'Keefe, not Breitbart, settled out-of-court, and there was never any finding or admission of wrongdoing. Breitbart wasn't even involved with the lawsuit and was not sued. --DHeyward (talk) 17:16, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning The Devil's Advocate

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

  • Breitbart's poor reputation for reliability and its shoddy treatment of living individuals make it impossible to use as a source for BLPs or other sensitive topics. Given that, there's no reason for such a link to be present on the talk page. Editors are reminded that talk pages are not discussion forums and since there is no chance of this link being used as a source for the article, there is no reason for this link to remain on the talk page. I will not impose sanctions for editors who have inserted the link on the talk page in good faith, but now that this matter has been brought here, be aware that persistently reinserting the link to a clearly unreliable source amounts to sanctionable disruptive editing. Gamaliel (talk) 16:13, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Ksolway

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Ksolway

User who is submitting this request for enforcement
Ryulong (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 06:42, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
User against whom enforcement is requested
Ksolway (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Notification of sanctions

Ksolway is an editor who has an established account but has not edited in nearly a year and has been edit warring at Gamergate controversy (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) over rewording the lede into one that is not as harsh on the Gamergaters. He was notified of the sanctions (as per above), warned about edit warring, and requested to join a discussion about his proposed changes but has not yet edited the article's talk page in a 24 hour period and in fact restored his version despite all of the attempts to get him to communicate. It is clear (to me) that Ksolway is one of the several problematic editors who have had dormant accounts for incredibly long stretches of time and has returned to Misplaced Pages to push an agenda.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 06:42, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Ksolway, you only posted to the talk page less than an hour ago and you're proclaiming you're going to revert again to a version that is not accepted by anyone there.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 11:00, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

@DHeyward: Every diff above is edit warring so what are you insinuating? Also "TFYC" and Sommers are only described by themselves as any sort of feminist when no one else (other than Gamergate advocates) refers to them as such.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 03:45, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
@DHeyward: That's not what reliable sources say about these people (particularly in the case of one who has been labeled as anti-feminist before Gamergate was even a concept) but to each their own.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 04:17, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
@DHeyward: Not what I've seen/read but Ksolway still is WP:NOTHERE and has an established identity on his user page that links to his personal website from which we can discern his anti-feminist/MRA leanings.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 05:51, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Ksolway edited the talk page once more to demand a rewrite based on his preferred sources. It is becoming more obvious he has an axe to grind rather than a good faith intent to improve Misplaced Pages.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 12:24, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Discussion concerning Ksolway

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Ksolway

Every single statement in this article has been written by those who are vehemently anti-Gamergate.

This is like having the Misplaced Pages article on Christianity written by hardcore militant atheists.

I added an accurate, unbiased, fair description of the Gamergate controversy, but I am not being allowed to add even a single word.

My contributions to the talk page have been ignored. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ksolway (talk • contribs)

Statement by Strongjam

Page is fully protected again. No action is probably required to avoid disruption. @Ksolway: should be reminded to discuss controversial edits on the talk pages, and I've left a reminder for them about the proper use of minor edits. — Strongjam (talk) 14:41, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Statement by TheRedPenOfDoom re Ksolway

Per Ksolway's statement, its clear evidence that they are WP:NOTHERE to improve the encyclopedia, that they are here to be white knight saving poor gamergaters by pushing a view that is not supported at all by the sources , and that their WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality towards the subject is going to be detrimental to all of their edits on the subject, whether or not they can currently actively disrupt the Gamergate controversy article page. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 15:01, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Tony Sidaway

I'd considered asking an uninvolved admin to have a friendly word with this editor, as several messages have been left on his talk page all in vain. I would emphasise that the issue here was the editor's continued failure to engage in ongoing discussion over his challenged lede edit. --TS 10:00, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Dheyward

No Diffs for edit warring were provided. No policy violations or 3RR reports. This is excessive request for no evidence. The history of the article is rife with edit warring including by established editors.

For what it's worth, all his changes were not bad. For example, it is a generally true statement that harassment is reported by modern feminists that have spoken out about gamergate, not just "women" in general. There are many women gamers including women that are executives in large video game corporations that simply are not involved. The opening section is a very simplistic view of what is various political viewpoints including radical feminists, like TFYC (also sometimes called "trans exclusive radical feminists"), and libertarian feminists like Christina Hoff Sommers that refute modern feminist thought of victimization. All of these are covered in the reliable sources as to how each different group has been harassed. Fringe GamerGate elements have harassed modern feminists that have spoken out against gamergate. Libertarian and radical feminists have been harassed by different groups. In addition, the controversy started when the Gjoni blog post outlined connections between a modern feminist and gaming journalists.

Encapsulating that level of detail (or simply removing the incorrect and broader statements that put various living people in a negative light) should not be cause for sanction and current page protection makes the complaint moot as disruption by both warriors have stopped has stopped. --DHeyward (talk) 03:31, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Ryulong all parties of interest have identified with various feminist affiliations long before GamerGate. There isn't a No true feminist test for identification. Yes, TFYC are feminists and yes, Sommers is a feminist. All have different viewpoints and all are feminist in nature. Please don't denigrate other women and feminists because their view of feminism is different from the one you have. --DHeyward (talk) 04:16, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Ryulong as far as I have seen, the only labeling of "anti-feminist" is by those extremists ideologically opposed to sub-factions of feminists. All variations are feminists in mainstream sources with different premises of what feminism is about. Sommers, Sarkheesian, Wu, Quinn and TFYC are all feminists that quibble over what feminist means according to their particular dogma. This is supported widely in reliable sources and it is not Misplaced Pages's place to discredit them. --DHeyward (talk) 05:21, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Retartist

This user dosent seem to be WP:NOTHERE but seems not understanding of policy, recommend trout and low time (2-3 days) topic ban/block for edit warring and a mentor/lecture to teach them about wikipedia Retartist (talk) 03:34, 27 December 2014 (UTC)


Statement by username

Result concerning Ksolway

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

TrekMaster

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning TrekMaster

User who is submitting this request for enforcement
Ryulong (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:35, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
User against whom enforcement is requested
TrekMaster (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction violation
Notification of sanctions

TrekMaster last edited Misplaced Pages in 2007. His first edit in 7 years is to go straight to the Gamergate talk page and cry bias and accuse editors and admins of impartiality and collusion (). He was notified of the sanctions and then made the diff above where he accuses another editor of being implicit by linking to a screenshot posted by "Logan_Mac" on Reddit. TrekMaster has violated the assumption of good faith for the sole purpose of advocating for Gamergate.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 03:35, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

@Weedwacker: There have been many discussions on Misplaced Pages concerning the Reddit user known as "Logan_Mac" just as there are many discussions of the Reddit user "ryulong67", which I've admitted is my account, but that's really a stretch to bring up. The issue here is that TrekMaster reappeared on Misplaced Pages with an axe to grind and this page is meant to prevent that axe from doing any damage.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 11:41, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Discussion concerning TrekMaster

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by TrekMaster

Statement by Weedwacker

I'm going to agree with you here that this editors contributions do not appear to be helpful. It appears he has used his 2 edits to deliver a message of displeasure with wikipedia and editors here, but he made the mistake of doing it in the wrong places and with insufficient evidence. Also this statement in your request: "TrekMaster has violated the assumption of good faith for the sole purpose of advocating for Gamergate" is odd because nothing in his edits suggested he was advocating for anything other than deleting the article and that editors' neutrality has been called into question, which is a factual statement, you can see it on ArbCom. The first of the two edits, while obviously being mostly things that can be subjective views of the article, is not breaking any rules. He's not accusing anyone of anything in that edit, simply airing his frustrations and stating that the neutrality of editors and admins has been called into question. In that edit, he is not the one accusing anyone of anything. The second edit however, does certainly contain accusations with weak evidence that doesn't really prove much of anything.

I'd support a warning and directing the editor to guidelines for talk pages. Since this is only one edit containing weak accusations, i'd say a limited topic ban should only be enforced if this continues.

Also, a link to imgur, why do you need to mention at all that it was also posted on another website by a "Logan_Mac"? This also seems like an attemped WP:OUTING as well as irrelevant information. Weedwacker (talk) 11:37, 28 December 2014 (UTC)


Statement by (username)

Result concerning TrekMaster

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

YellowSandals

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning YellowSandals

User who is submitting this request for enforcement
Ryulong (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:46, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
User against whom enforcement is requested
YellowSandals (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

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Violation
Notification

YellowSandals' editing history on Misplaced Pages solely exists on the Gamergate topic pages. In this reported edit, he accuses another editor of acting in bad faith. YellowSandals has not once edited any article on Misplaced Pages other than the Gamergate one. It is obvious he is not here to build an encyclopedia but wiki-litigate over article content.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 03:46, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Discussion concerning YellowSandals

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Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by YellowSandals

Statement by (username)

Result concerning YellowSandals

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Loganmac

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Loganmac

User who is submitting this request for enforcement
Ryulong (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:46, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
User against whom enforcement is requested
Loganmac (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Violation
Notification

In the reported edit, Loganmac makes an egregious personal attack on another editor, and has argued that it was on content and not the contributor when it was contested.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 03:46, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Loganmac's statements regarding the message I left on his talk page are inconsequential, as I simply remark on something I had discovered had been said about me off-site. Loganmac's behavior has been beyond the pale since he returned to editing Misplaced Pages, which is only exacerbated by off-site commentary which may or may not be attributed to someone on Misplaced Pages.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 07:01, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

"Also that account might not be mine" wasn't really absolving yourself of ownership when previously explicitly accused of owning such an account, but I make no such statements here. I merely note that there is questionable behavior regarding Misplaced Pages happening offsite which may or may not be relevant.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 08:41, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

@Weedwacker: Obviously, no one would want to connect their identity to a user on another website that has almost exclusively used that website to harass me. And not to nitpick, but that "accounts on other websites" thing was added to the policy with no on-site discussion only a week before, so there was really no way of anyone knowing that it was against any policy. But that's not really the point. Loganmac violated a behavior principle prior to my messages. I intended to raise no issues of outing here. It is only Loganmac that accuses me of such.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 11:36, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
@Loganmac: I in no way associate you with harassment. I have said that the individual on Reddit known as "Logan_Mac" has harassed me. I make no such suggestions that this individual is you on this page or any other (that has not been retracted). And my statement on the outing rule solely regards the comments made in October.
And Weedwacker, the same goes to you. I make no statements that these accounts are connected. I merely point out Loganmac's behavior on Misplaced Pages and tangentially comment in a completely different report that "Logan_Mac" on Reddit is responsible for harassment leveled at me.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 12:17, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Discussion concerning Loganmac

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Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Loganmac

The comment was deleted and I chose not to re-add it. TheRedPenOfDoom was trying to insert a known falsehood reported on media by John Bain himself on The David Pakman Show here , and mentioned several times by him like here and on his podcast. For admins that might not know, RedPen was arguing that GamerGate didn't care about the Shadow of Mordor scandal in which a PR company paid YouTubers to give positive reviews for their game. Bain said on an interview on the David Pakman show that he broke the story, and since he's a GamerGate supporter, it's wrong to say that "GamerGate" didn't care", he then mentioned the GamerGate subreddit /r/KotakuInAction had several threads about it, this is all sourced. Thus I called the writing in the suggestion tendetious because it didn't mention that the PR move was targeting YouTubers and streamers, not journalists, which again, sourced, is what GamerGate is targeting, video game journalism. All that comment does is argue about the neutrality of the SUGGESTED edit, see "biased SUGGESTION by TheRedPenOfDoom". Everything was about the actual idea being put forward for discussion, not the person, in any case I saw one person thinking it was a personal attack, who deleted it, and I chose to not readd it and moved on. All I was doing is judge an editor's neutrality based on their actual actions on this project. Also looking at the above reports being made by Ryulong I think he's approaching this with a WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality and looks like he's trying to out me while calling me not a normal person. Also this is pretty stupid but his notification was lacking, I had logged a couple of minutes before and saw his notification, he didn't mention he was reporting me and I thought he was requesting comment so I ignored it . And I think him or TheRedPenOfDoom should have come to my talk page to solve this like TS if they had a problem instead of trying to ban me right away when I've never even been warned since the 7 years I'm here. Loganmac (talk) 06:15, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

In this diff Ryulong says my behaviour has been "pale" since returning when I've never been blocked and I think I got like 2 ANIs/Requests like these in the last 4 years, then he argues that somehow some off-site behaviour that he doesn't cite "exarberated" this? I'm sorry but what? What does "which is only exacerbated by off-site commentary which may or may not be attributed to someone on Misplaced Pages" even mean? This I think is further evidence of him trying to out me right here in front of the General Sanctions board.

Ryulong now tries associating me with harassment, this is grounds for WP:BOOMERANG 101. and Ignorance of the law does not imply innocence Loganmac (talk) 07:51, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Ryulong argues that he somehow "hasn't made the link" yet which is wrong, seeing as here he makes the association himself thus he has accused me of harassment on absolutely no grounds, and I understand to an outside admin this looks like boring internet drama, and I'm here to defend myself, but I have said everything I think I have to say in my first paragraph, but this guy's behaviour is just incredible Loganmac (talk) 12:34, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Statement by Weedwacker

Looking at the diffs that Loganmac cited of Ryulong's edits to his own comments taunting Loganmac about a supposed link to reddit don't really look that much different to me than the "personal attacks" that resulted in the interaction ban of Ryulong and Cla68. Worse still, this request is full of attempted WP:OUTING. "Personal information includes legal name, date of birth, identification numbers, home or workplace address, job title and work organisation, telephone number, email address, other contact information (including any other accounts on any other web sites), or photograph whether any such information is accurate or not." From the diff Ryulong linked ""Also that account might not be mine", Loganmac did what the policy states to do; "If you see an editor post personal information about another person, do not confirm or deny the accuracy of the information." Weedwacker (talk) 11:02, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

@Ryulong: That policy change has been in effect now long enough and has been pointed to before this that we all know it took place by now. Yet since then you continue to bring up that redditor account name, and make comments about reddit and snark karma jokes to this editor. Weedwacker (talk) 12:00, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Loganmac

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

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