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Revision as of 02:38, 29 December 2014

Text and/or other creative content from this version of The Zeitgeist Movement was copied or moved into Zeitgeist (film series) with this edit on 2 December 2014. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

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Consolidating

Why was the consolidation necessary? Seems like a movement consisting of 149 chapters (directly from http://tzmchapters.net/) globally warrants it's own article. There seems to be a link between the entities by Peter Joseph, however the themes of the film "Zeitgeist" hardly resemble anything anything from the community published document "Zeitgeist Movement: Defined" that the movement uses as a guide. (source: http://thezeitgeistmovement.com/orientation#faq1). Pknu (talk) 04:28, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Let us just assume that you are another loyal Zeitgeist follower led here from your Facebook site to try and improve the article according to the party line, your Faq's and Peter Joseph commentaries.

Number one it is customary to put your comments at the bottom of the page, not the top. Number two you are a single purpose editor that perhaps has been here before or what we call a meat or sock puppet at least for now. If you want to edit Misplaced Pages try to learn the methods of doing so. For instance we can not use the article to advertise or promote your information like your link, that is called a primary source. Has someone else notable written about that document? I guess not. There has been a lot of debate on the old article about Zeitgeist movement and Zeitgeist movies and their connection. The movement, which translates to Peter Joseph tries to disassociate the two things, but we do not advocate for the Zeitgeist Faq's. Probably Peter Joseph made a big mistake associating the first movie and the later movement he invented. But, the consensus is that the so called movement is pretty much a blogging platform for Peter Joseph's ideas and possibly an internet driven conspiracy cult. You follow me? That is what our reliable sources tell us. Sorry but there is not conspiracy here, just guidelines for editing. Earl King Jr. (talk) 07:55, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Since several articles are being put into this article page, the new information needs better presentation. Also looking at blocks of un-sourced information, I removed some of that un-sourced possible o.r. information in the newly expanded article. Earl King Jr. (talk) 14:46, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Wow, you certainly appear hostile and full of assumptions. Would it appropriate to briefly introduce myself in this space? Long time wiki user, first time contributor. I read a bit of the debate in the old article and since I'm familiar with the movement I thought the article could use some cleaning up. Are you the primary editor of this page? It appears you've unfortunately dealt with those who would attempt to remove neutrality from the page in the past. I can assure you I'm not a "sock puppet" and if necessary an admin could probably verify this via my IP. Honestly, I'm new to wiki as an editor so I would appreciate your guidance in clearing up inaccuracies in the article, and so I don't make further mistakes! Anyhow, it's my understanding that wikipedia accepts primary sources in the absence of tertiary sources. I'm sorry that you felt I made assumptions about conspiracies, however my questions, statements, and edits are clear. Could you please walk me through how the consensus was reached that the movement is a blogging platform for Joseph, and an internet cult instead of a real world movement with real world activities (which appear sourced several times, but mentioned mostly for linking back to the original film, which is not associated with the reason the movement exists, the resource based economy idea) I also see mention by other editors that it is a scam, but where is the basis? Forgive me for being skeptical of you due to reversing simple and accurate edits I made, I'm just looking for some clarity because I've seen their events in local event pages and they don't ask for money. That's more directed at encyclopedia-user. I do see that this a controversial page due to moveme advocates apparently skewing the page, but the inverse also seems to be true of users with a preference for moving the entirety of the page to a footnote under conspiracy. This is equally odd, as all available movement materials discuss a scientific worldview as a goal, and media irrelevance is not equal to inactivity. Thanks for taking some time with me Earl. Pknu (talk) 22:45, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Learn to indent your talk page comments. Go to this page and read the whole thing and also the archived parts of it Put a Help thing on your talk page. Ask for help from people here, there is a method for that. People will show up on your talk page then to assist with basic questions. Assuming good will is a basic thing here but I do not believe your missive above. I do think you are from the FACEBOOK site and are only here to cause trouble , other wise you would not have shown up to do what you are doing. Also you do not understand that the movie and the movement are just promo blogging sites to sell DVD's on Amazon and such? Can not help you with that. Probably better if you just go back to FACEBOOK and tell them they have guidelines and things on Misplaced Pages and Zeitgeist being mostly a self promoted primary source group that is no longer in the news, it becomes difficult to influence the article with yourself and your Zeitgeist friends. Earl King Jr. (talk) 02:23, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

I'm with you here Earl, Zeitgeist is nothing more than a self-promoted, self-sourced internet cult, false advertising campaign.

Really it should be given that status on wikipedia in a list of NWO conspiracy theory internet scams, alex jones, david ike, "what the bleep do we know?" etc

Zeitgeist should be deleted and if even put back on wikipedia, put under such a status..Encyclopedia-account (talk) 07:52, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Movement article into movie article

So, the Zeitgeist Movement article was moved into the film article a few days ago, this article. Should we consolidate the information more or is it about the way it should be? Earl King Jr. (talk) 12:53, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

This looks like a copy-paste move. Was attribution made for the previous edits, and where? Elizium23 (talk) 23:36, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

There was a request for comment, which closed a couple of days ago, on the Zeitgeist Movement talk page that overwhelmingly suggested moving The Zeitgeist Movement page into the film article page. Beyond that I don't know. Earl King Jr. (talk) 03:13, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Please read Misplaced Pages:Copying within Misplaced Pages. With this edit you copied in over 8k of text from the other article. But that article has its own edit history with contributors who must, under Misplaced Pages's license, be attributed for their contributions. I will repair this problem now, but please be more careful in the future to always provide attribution. Elizium23 (talk) 05:37, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing that and my apologies for not knowing better. Earl King Jr. (talk) 13:06, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

the next step is deleting this page.Encyclopedia-viewer (talk) 00:12, 10 December 2014 (UTC)— Encyclopedia-viewer (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

For what reason? Ian.thomson (talk) 00:18, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Because zeitgeist is stupid, it lowers wikipeida's standards.Encyclopedia-viewer (talk) 01:18, 10 December 2014 (UTC)— Encyclopedia-viewer (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

That's called WP:IDONTLIKEIT. Elizium23 (talk) 05:16, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

I think it's safe to say that bullshit zeitgeist doesn't belong on wikipedia..Encyclopedia-account (talk) 09:14, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Citation needed

In the text it says, "The informal group was founded by and is directed by Peter Joseph." but citation doesn't say anywhere he directs the movement. Is there a reliable source to say he directs the movement? If not, it should not say this. --Melarish (talk) 10:41, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

He invented the term Zeitgeist Movement, he announced the formation of it at the end of one of his movies. He is the ostensible leader. No doubt someone can document that when they get around to it. Problem is that their official FAQ's info. says the so called movement has no leaders, so really you can not win on this type of article. It is all concocted though by Peter Joseph for better or worse. Its pretty obvious without original research that he is the leader, director, spiritual god father... etc. etc. Did you do a search on that? Earl King Jr. (talk) 14:38, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Are you suggesting having unsourced information in the article because you personally think it is obvious? --Melarish (talk) 12:40, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

Often lead segments that are obvious do not need citing. Earl King Jr. (talk) 23:58, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

The reason lead segments do not always need direct footnotes is because they are supposed to summarize the article, where the references can be found. "Obvious" isn't really a threshold that applies here. Elizium23 (talk) 00:12, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Peter Joseph is the leader of the Zeitgeist movement. It is his baby. As the leader of the movement and their official unofficial spokesperson he gets to say it is a 'leaderless movement', so do you want to parrot that or do you want to do some research and actually get at what is going on in an encyclopedic fashion? Do you want to quote their FAQ's material like the members of Zeitgeist who repeat what they are told by Peter Joseph because maybe they think he is Guru like or do you want to actually report what is happening in a meaningful way and not an idiosyncratic Zeitgeist presentation? He funds the website. He made the movies. He funds the movies. He collects the donation to his pocket. He announced the 'movement'. He made the plaintive remark that people asked him what to do so he founded the Zeitgeist Movement. Now Zeitgeist members show up and edit war relentlessly for their preferred presentation. Most get blocked after a week or two and then their meat and sock puppets show up. Melarish previously edit warred for the Zeitgeist movements faq's material. Earl King Jr. (talk) 12:48, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Then do it in an encyclopedic fashion and provide a reliable source for your claim. If Misplaced Pages's standard of a reliable source is a tabloid journalist then I'm afraid this "encyclopedia" has gone down the drain. No wonder no one considers WP a source worth citing. --Melarish (talk) 10:58, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is not a reliable source and not considered even reliable by Misplaced Pages standards. Mostly it is a website that has a bunch of affiliated websites where it makes money and it pretends to be a 'higher purpose' above the fray thing. It probably is a good source though for all the lazy minded people that do not have the time to actually learn anything. Misplaced Pages is mostly a scam site, its true for its other related endeavors that make money. However in some ways its pretty good. Since you are a dyed in the wool Peter Joseph acolyte and probably believe in the whole thing he is proposing you probably think the world is against you and its part of the conspiracy but the reality is that it appears the Zeitgeist is a dead movement and lived its life, kind of like Angry Birds or any other internet fad. My opinion only and probably should not give it but since you are attacking the basic thing here, that is my opinion. Earl King Jr. (talk) 12:02, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

As you point out, that zeitgeist is dead, this page should be deleted I mean it should never have been made, leave it to conspiracy theorists to pay tribute to it. Nothing would be lost by Zeitgeist being deleted from wikipedia, wiki would be better without it. I assure you, it would not be missed..Encyclopedia-account (talk) 03:26, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages's mission is to characterize topics from a Neutral Point Of View (NPOV), not to delete topics you don't like. See Misplaced Pages:Five pillars —68.7.95.95 (talk) 00:59, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Zeitgeist cannot be given a neutral POV, since it isn't a topic, it's a scam. The flood of zeit-cult defenders on this talk page shows how wiki is being used an advertising platform for this cult. Best to have it deleted to make room for real topics or a very brief mention in the NWO conspiracy article..Encyclopedia-account (talk) 23:39, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Warning

There is an ongoing effort by Zeitgeist members to influence in a conflict of interest way the article, to conform with their Peter Joseph FAQ's material. This is an example

• Melarish Ish Been trying to edit the criticisms to end the association with Zeitgeist: The Movie. Not going too well. I can't edit any more or I might be banned so I'm continuing the argument on the Talk page. Source from Zeitgeist end quote from the Global Zeitgeist Movement Facebook

Yes this is the same person that is demanding citations for non starter items like who is the leader. It is pretty well known that Peter Joseph invented the movement, controls its information and has directed, produced, narrated, etc, etc, the content and 'script' of what they are. I don't mind that Malarish is a Zeitgeist member/advocate, but I do mind that he edit warred the article and is trying to extend the Zeitgeist orgs. information to encompass the Misplaced Pages information. Conflict of interest. Earl King Jr. (talk) 15:11, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Another example of how people pour into this article from the large number of followers generated by Zeitgeist and try to influence, by directing people to come here and edit, the article to be in synch with the Zeitgeist movement promotional information It might not be a bad idea to further protect this article. Earl King Jr. (talk) 15:30, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

a bunch of conspiracy theorists can hang around on Facebook or their forums for all I care, there's really no reason to have a zeitgeist wiki page, it provides Nothing of value to anyone since the subject is bogus in itself.

This zeitgeist page doesn't belong on wikipedia, it should be deleted. Period..Encyclopedia-account (talk) 02:55, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

It is a scam and there is no doubt about that, but we can have the article and present the information in a neutral nonpartisan manner. There are enough references to justify an article about the movies, but the movement itself no, not enough references or notability to justify an independent article.--MONGO 16:24, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Zeitgeist should be deleted from wikipedia, there's no doubt about that. Maybe it should be added to the NWO conspiracy wiki article among all the other conspiracy scam nonsense, alex jones, esoteric agenda, david ike, reptilians etc. But it's own page? I completely disagree..Encyclopedia-account (talk) 03:16, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages's mission is to characterize topics from a Neutral Point Of View (NPOV), not to delete topics you don't like. See Misplaced Pages:Five pillars —68.7.95.95 (talk) 01:08, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Reception

Buenos-Ding-Dong-Didily-Dias:

Hm. It appears that every source on the section "Reception" is negative. I'm sure in a big continent of millions of people, there are some who loved the movie--I'm definitely one of them...at least the first "Zeitgeist"...I didn't like the other two very much. I would suggest including at least some positive reviews of the first "Zeitgeist." Otherwise, it's blatantly obvious to me as a reader that this article is biased towards all those who believe in religion, the tragedy of 911, and the money system. Since you all know who I am, you can include my review as a five out of five review.

Saludos,

70.72.45.131 (talk) 00:18, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Sure we know who you are for sure. Thanks, but us gatekeepers here are all card carrying members of the New World Order and we can not allow people like you to run wild on the article. Its against our religion and if we want to retain control of the sheeple we have to keep them from accurate Zeitgeist information because the Zeitgeist is really the key to life and liberty and happiness for nearly 100% of the ordinary people. On the other hand maybe you could start a really good blog and not bother coming here since you are not really interested in accurate information, you removed parts of the article, you gave no real edit summaries, and you appear to be another meat or sock puppet from the group. Earl King Jr. (talk) 13:14, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

The concern should be removing the whole article, not simply "parts" of it, zeitgeist is quite overdue for deleting for something so bullshit..Encyclopedia-account (talk) 07:59, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Blindly Undoing Contributions

To Mr King: Sir, your blind undo of all my helpful edits hurts the integrity of this article and the integrity of Misplaced Pages. You will notice that Tom Harrison has already manually restored some of your damage. I understand that mistakes are made and that this page has been the target of vandalism lately, but the fact remains that your undo was misplaced. Your stated reason, that I "removed cited info" is not grounds to blindly undo all my edits. The claim that I removed cited info is accurate, but it was a duplicate quote that also exists elsewhere in the article and did not pertain to the section I removed it from. I organized. I made things clearer. Mr. King, please take the time to realize your mistake and manually restore my edits as I am no longer able to easily undo the damage you've done. 68.7.95.95 (talk) 21:11, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Its customary to put new posts at the bottom of the page. Also it is considered inflammatory to post an editors name in a negative way in the talk page heading so I removed that. Thanks to Tom for cleaning up my lazy edit. As far as taking away cited information that is not a good idea. There is virtually no information on Zeitgeist by reliable sources beyond several article so it really is scraping the bottom of the barrel sometimes to find information. I assume the I.P. above is another person from the Facebook group that directs their members here to edit. If that is the case one suggestion is that you get a Misplaced Pages account and then take some time to learn how the basic guidelines read. Then you can edit away, back up your information and learn about consensus and N.P.O.V neutral point of view. Its o.k. that you are a single purpose account created to edit this page and no doubt your great belief in the Zeitgeist material is sincere ] and you are a serious person, but there are a bunch of guidelines for editing. Earl King Jr. (talk) 23:39, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

Mr. King, thank you for responding and for your efforts in keeping Misplaced Pages the amazing resource it is. I apologize, I am ignorant of many Misplaced Pages editing guidelines, but I assure you all of my edits were 100% NPOV-compliant. I was certain none of my edits would be controversial. I don't know what facebook group you're talking about. No one sent me :). I am interested far more in the mission of Misplaced Pages than that of any political group. To be very clear, I only removed certain text because it aleady appeared elsewhere on the page. This was not to censor, but to organize (like movie critique goes in movie section). No unique text was deleted—please see my edit summaries and also see Misplaced Pages:Quotations#General_guidelines which states, "Where the same quotation has been used elsewhere in the article, avoid duplicating it, which is regarded as poor style." With your permission, I'd like to re-contibute my edits. I will surely grab a username if I decide to continue contributing to Misplaced Pages. Will you agree not to undo my edits again? I'd hate to waste my time twice. Thanks. 68.7.95.95 (talk) 07:46, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes well stop adding stuff like this to the article that is not connected

• Gift economy
• Reciprocity (cultural anthropology)
• Social capital
• Anarchist communism
• Technocracy movement

There is zilch connection and though you may wish there was some connection there is none. So stop throwing a bunch of stuff against the wall to see what sticks. Earl King Jr. (talk) 13:34, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

According to Misplaced Pages:Manual_of_Style/Layout#See_also_section:

The links in the "See also" section might be only indirectly related to the topic of the article because one purpose of "See also" links is to enable readers to explore tangentially related topics.

If you insist, the next time I re-add these links, I can provide a brief annotation explaining the relevance of each link, but I'd rather you just let it go.—68.7.95.95 (talk) 12:24, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Caps

Anyone have an opinion of the the zeitgeist movement being in caps through out the article. It seems like a misplaced idea since the zeitgeist movement is not an actual organization but an adhoc, informal group of fan sites from the movies and it could be argued that Peter Joseph has a set of shadow sites to promote his DVD sales of the zeitgeist movies. I can see capitalizing the title of the section probably because lots of section titles do that or if it is in caps in a new article that would be o.k. but just making caps through out the article seems a bit much. The so called 'group' is not a real organization, none of their information is public, its not a non-profit or a corporation nor is there some kind of charter for it etc, just a FAQ's page on a fanzine site from the looks of it. It just does not seem like virtually anything has been written about it for years either. How can someone announce a 'movement' the guy that made the movies, then basically have an extended blog site with hardly a bit of outside reporting? Can we take it seriously???? in the sense of even giving it its own section in the article?? instead of just having a little something written about it in the section of the movie where Joesph announces it. Just a series of questions if anyone wants to throw in ideas.— Preceding unsigned comment added by ] (] • ])

A couple responses come to mind:

• The group refers to itself as The Zeitgeist Movement. According to Misplaced Pages:Identifying reliable sources#Self-published and questionable sources as sources on themselves, "Self-published or questionable sources may be used as sources of information about themselves."
• Additionally, The Zeitgeist Movement seems to be a Proper name and therefore seems like it should be title case. "In languages that use alphabetic scripts and that distinguish lower and upper case, there is usually an association between proper names and capitalization."
• Some of your other comments may be worth discussing but not in this section as they are not relevant to the capitalization of a proper name.

—68.7.95.95 (talk) 23:51, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

I agree that the name should be in caps as it is the official name of an organization. Whether or not it is an informal organization is irrelavent to this discussion. -- Somedifferentstuff (talk) 13:36, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

The article title is in caps. Otherwise it is just an informal group that advertises Peter Josephs movies. I don't think we should capitalize something that is not a real group just an hoc association of bloggers. Earl King Jr. (talk) 02:31, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

I don't think we should have a page for zeitgeist since neither the group or the movies are real..Encyclopedia-account (talk) 11:55, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Personal Opinions Regarding Zeitgeist

It has become apparent to me that there are a lot of strong personal opinions on this wikipedia topic. Some people want to use the page to bolster The Zeitgeist Movement by deleting cited criticisms. Others seem to want to marginalize the Zeitgeist films and movement by minimizing article content and de-legitimizing its group by calling them a movie fan club and lower casing their group name and calling it "informal". Whether Zeitgeist is great or terrible, neither of these opinions belong on wikipedia.

Let us remember that Misplaced Pages's mission is to characterize topics from a Neutral Point Of View (NPOV). This is one of Misplaced Pages's Five pillars. If we all focus on this pillar, there is no reason why everyone can't get along and work together by adding verified content and enriching this article for all.—68.7.95.95 (talk) 02:28, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Let us remember that Misplaced Pages's mission is to characterize topics from a Neutral Point Of View (NPOV). Yes the topics that are notable. Zeitgeist seems to be border line. It appears to be an advertising arm of Peter Joseph who recruits people through his websites to come here and claim that Zeitgeist is something special and problem is though, it has not been seriously written about for years. There is a real lack of interest in the media about it. It could be because of Joseph's background as a Wall Street money broker and Madison Ave. worker bee, that get some media thinking it is not much of anything except a self generated advert for Joesph's projects. He did announce it after all, and who 'announces' a movement? Usually they actually announce themselves by appearing. Since many of the followers of Zeitgeist were called to come here from their blog sites it becomes problematic also to sort through their contributions because of their cause mentality. Earl King Jr. (talk) 03:37, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

I agree with you Earl, but, well it doesn't just "appear" to be an advertising arm of PJ, it is. Giving zeitgeist a Neutral POV is impossible, it's an internet cult group. If I make up a bullshit conspiracy video, it gets followers, "likes", and gets borderline popularity, naturally that should not deserve a real wikipedia article, so why does zeitgeist have one? Maybe on a list of "cults", but not as anything which shows it as something real. NWO conspiracies, cults, false advertising campaigns, that's where zeitgeist belongs, not it's own article. .Encyclopedia-account (talk) 23:52, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Social movement

Is Zeitgeist a social movement Social movement it appears that maybe its not. It might be something else. Should we use their title to themselves in the article and should the Film article mention a zeitgeist group involved in informal discussions and some literal protest meetings, etc, etc,.

It looks like there could be fresh waves of recruits arriving here from their blogs and so it could be increasingly difficult to keep these inspired followers from doing what they are doing in the future. Maybe just removing the movement aspect is better and just mention large groups of Zeitgeist fans have meet ups and discuss Peter Joseph movies on the internet. ????. I think it may be like Star Trek conventions or Harry Potter groups. They are not really social movements just inspired by some media. As far as I know they do not actually do anything in the real world. They claim they are not political. They have no official incorporation and appear to be internet driven only and with virtually no 'news' about them, they are very iffy except as an internet fan site. Does any one have any new articles about them from legit press from the last few years? Earl King Jr. (talk) 03:18, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

It appears you still don't understand that Misplaced Pages is based on reliable sources (message boards or group blogs are irrelevant to what is admissable on Misplaced Pages). The reason the article states that The Zeitgeist Movement is a political movement is because that is what this reliable source in the The Daily Telegraph says. The fact that the organization has appeared in very reliable sources, such as this piece in The New York Times (one of the most read newspapers in the world), and this piece in the The Daily Telegraph, is very relevant to their notability. Although I'm not a fan of RT, here is a current source that mentions the organization. The fact of the matter is that, regarding Misplaced Pages, articles are not reliant on current events to maintain notabitlity, which is in part why organizations such as the LaRouche movement have an article here, even though they have not been discussed in the mainstream media for years. -- Somedifferentstuff (talk) 16:42, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

You did not really answer the question though about the basic idea of even including this beyond a footnote in the movie section, maybe the second movie would be good and just getting rid in general of the Zeitgeist material at the bottom. The fact that the organization has appeared in very reliable sources, such as this piece in The New York Times (one of the most read newspapers in the world), and this piece in the The Daily Telegraph, is very relevant to their notability. Not current information and really it may have been a media darling for a few months but now there is zero being written about it. Earl King Jr. (talk) 02:38, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

I did answer your question and will not do it for a second time; re: notability. -- Somedifferentstuff (talk) 22:41, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Good point there, since there's zero being written about zeitgeist, it shouldn't have a page it should be deleted. Maybe a little mention on a conspiracy related page, but not its own page..Encyclopedia-account (talk) 07:42, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Call to Zeitgeist members to come here and edit

One of many on their websites but out of the two million hangers on they command no doubt some are going to try and rewrite again and again and over and over the same stuff of their FAQ's material. Long term page protection? Earl King Jr. (talk) 08:12, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

I looked at the link and one of the things they do is mention your biased editing. Not only are they correct, but your continued disruption of this subject matter has been going on for over a year. From what I can see, the only reason you've been able to continue your ownership of this material is because so few editors care about this content, which in the end is very unfortunate. -- Somedifferentstuff (talk) 10:24, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

I think Long-term Page Deletion - They can't edit a zeitgeist page if there isn't one, I suggest a brief mention on the NWO conspiracy page or if there's a list of conspiracy theory fringe groups, but not it's own page. There's so little to be said about zeitgeist that I think giving the group it's own page gives it too much credit for what it is..Encyclopedia-account (talk) 07:39, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

We do not delete sourced material because of vandalism. This is an encyclopedia and what we do is present sourced information to readers, irregardless of whether or not we like the subject matter. -- Somedifferentstuff (talk) 10:24, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Look S.D.S talk the neutral editors know that you are pro Zeitgeist and edit with The Devils Advocate and support the call to arms by the Zeitgeist group Probably not a bad idea to get rid of the section on the so called movement because mostly its such a pain because of the POV editors from Zeitgeist but as far as notable it is the advertising arm of Peter Joseph and that is about it. It was written about a few years ago but nothing recent. I suppose it is now the Angry Birds of today. Big for a while and then faded out. Earl King Jr. (talk) 11:51, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

If you think this is the action of a neutral editor then you need to re-examine our policies.--The Devil's Advocate _{tlk. cntrb.} 19:51, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Not a bad idea to get rid of the whole zeitgeist page, zeitgeist isn't a "subject" it's a scam, a documentary movement to make peter joseph money, solutions involving a fantasy utopia, largely related to communism, shit looks good on paper, doesn't work.

the reason why there are so little sources and mainly "self-sourced" is because zeitgeist desperately wants to give you the impression it's "for real", when it's general existence is brought into question.

This needs to be cleaned up into a page on internet scams/false advertising..Encyclopedia-account (talk) 12:01, 28 December 2014 (UTC) |2=Collapsed per WP:NOTFORUM/Discussion forums}}

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