Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 18:47, 29 December 2014

• Personal Attacks and Other Deleted Nonsense
• Famekeeper Archive
• FuelWagon Archive
• Jack User Archive
• Archive 1
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Talkback

78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 20:28, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

Formal mediation has been requested

The Mediation Committee has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to "Blanking of the Historicity of Jesus page". As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. Mediation is a voluntary process which resolves a dispute over article content by facilitation, consensus-building, and compromise among the involved editors. After reviewing the request page, the formal mediation policy, and the guide to formal mediation, please indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate. Because requests must be responded to by the Mediation Committee within seven days, please respond to the request by 10 October 2014.

Discussion relating to the mediation request is welcome at the case talk page. Thank you.
Message delivered by MediationBot (talk) on behalf of the Mediation Committee. 08:14, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gender Gap Task Force opened

You were recently listed as a party to a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gender Gap Task Force. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gender Gap Task Force/Evidence. Please add your evidence by October 17, 2014, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gender Gap Task Force/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Ks0stm 14:07, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Request for mediation rejected

The request for formal mediation concerning Blanking of the Historicity of Jesus page, to which you were listed as a party, has been declined. To read an explanation by the Mediation Committee for the rejection of this request, see the mediation request page, which will be deleted by an administrator after a reasonable time. Please direct questions relating to this request to the Chairman of the Committee, or to the mailing list. For more information on forms of dispute resolution, other than formal mediation, that are available, see Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution.

For the Mediation Committee, User:TransporterMan (talk) 21:17, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
(Delivered by MediationBot, on behalf of the Mediation Committee.)

Please comment on Talk:List of extinct mammals

You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:List of extinct mammals. Should you wish to respond, your contribution to this discussion will be appreciated. For tips, please see WP:Requests for comment#Suggestions for responding. If you wish to change the frequency or topics of these notices, or do not wish to receive them any longer, please adjust your entries at WP:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:03, 7 October 2014 (UTC)

VisualEditor newsletter—September and October 2014

TemplateData is a separate program that organizes information about the parameters that can be used in a template. VisualEditor reads that data, and uses it to populate its simplified template dialogs.

With the new TemplateData editor, it is easier to add information about parameters, because the ones you need to use are pre-loaded.

See the help page for TemplateData for more information about adding TemplateData. The user guide has information about how to use VisualEditor.

Since the last newsletter, the Editing team has reduced technical debt, simplified some workflows for template and citation editing, made major progress on Internet Explorer support, and fixed over 125 bugs and requests. Several performance improvements were made, especially to the system around re-using references and reference lists. Weekly updates are posted on Mediawiki.org.

There were three issues that required urgent fixes: a deployment error that meant that many buttons didn't work correctly (bugs 69856 and 69864), a problem with edit conflicts that left the editor with nowhere to go (bug 69150), and a problem in Internet Explorer 11 that caused replaced some categories with a link to the system message, MediaWiki:Badtitletext (bug 70894) when you saved. The developers apologize for the disruption, and thank the people who reported these problems quickly.

Increased support for devices and browsers

Internet Explorer 10 and 11 users now have access to VisualEditor. This means that about 5% of Wikimedia's users will now get an "Edit" tab alongside the existing "Edit source" tab. Support for Internet Explorer 9 is planned for the future.

Tablet users browsing the site's mobile mode now have the option of using a mobile-specific form of VisualEditor. More editing tools, and availability of VisualEditor on smartphones, is planned for the future. The mobile version of VisualEditor was tweaked to show the context menu for citations instead of basic references (bug 68897). A bug that broke the editor in iOS was corrected and released early (bug 68949). For mobile tablet users, three bugs related to scrolling were fixed (bug 66697, bug 68828, bug 69630). You can use VisualEditor on the mobile version of Misplaced Pages from your tablet by clicking on the cog in the top-right when editing a page and choosing which editor to use.

TemplateData editor

A tool for editing TemplateData will be deployed to more Wikipedias soon.  Other Wikipedias and some other projects may receive access next month. This tool makes it easier to add TemplateData to the template's documentation.  When the tool is enabled, it will add a button above every editing window for a template (including documentation subpages). To use it, edit the template or a subpage, and then click the "Edit template data" button at the top.  Read the help page for TemplateData. You can test the TemplateData editor in a sandbox at Mediawiki.org. Remember that TemplateData should be placed either on a documentation subpage or on the template page itself. Only one block of TemplateData will be used per template.

Other changes

Several interface messages and labels were changed to be simpler, clearer, or shorter, based on feedback from translators and editors. The formatting of dialogs was changed, and more changes to the appearance will be coming soon, when VisualEditor implements the new MediaWiki theme from Design. (A preview of the theme is available on Labs for developers.) The team also made some improvements for users of the Monobook skin that improved the size of text in toolbars and fixed selections that overlapped menus.

VisualEditor-MediaWiki now supplies the mw-redirect or mw-disambig class on links to redirects and disambiguation pages, so that user gadgets that colour in these in types of links can be created.

Templates' fields can be marked as 'required' in TemplateData. If a parameter is marked as required, then you cannot delete that field when you add a new template or edit an existing one (bug 60358). 

Language support improved by making annotations use bi-directional isolation (so they display correctly with cursoring behaviour as expected) and by fixing a bug that crashed VisualEditor when trying to edit a page with a dir attribute but no lang set (bug 69955).

Looking ahead

The team posts details about planned work on the VisualEditor roadmap. The VisualEditor team plans to add auto-fill features for citations soon, perhaps in late October.

The team is also working on support for adding rows and columns to tables, and early work for this may appear within the month. Please comment on the design at Mediawiki.org.

In the future, real-time collaborative editing may be possible in VisualEditor. Some early preparatory work for this was recently done.

Supporting your wiki

At Wikimania, several developers gave presentations about VisualEditor. A translation sprint focused on improving access to VisualEditor was supported by many people. Deryck Chan was the top translator. Special honors also go to संजीव कुमार (Sanjeev Kumar), Robby, Takot, Bachounda, Bjankuloski06 and Ата. A summary of the work achieved by the translation community has been posted here. Thank you all for your work.

VisualEditor can be made available to most non-Misplaced Pages projects. If your community would like to test VisualEditor, please contact product manager James Forrester or file an enhancement request in Bugzilla.

Please join the office hours on Saturday, 18 October 2014 at 18:00 UTC (daytime for the Americas; evening for Africa and Europe) and on Wednesday, 19 November at 16:00 UTC on IRC.

Give feedback on VisualEditor at mw:VisualEditor/Feedback. Subscribe or unsubscribe at Meta. To help with translations, please subscribe to the Translators mailing list or contact Elitre at Meta. Thank you!

— Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 00:10, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Response 1

I left you a new response on my talk page.

75.162.179.246 (talk)

FYI on evidence

When I presented that evidence in early Sept I was under a lot of pressure and made some errors, some of which already have been publicly pointed out. Since this will be seen as your evidence, you might want to check the diffs yourself. Same with EvergreenFir's just in case. Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 18:13, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

I echo Carol's sentiments about errors being made. You wan't to be super careful when presenting anything crafted by Carol. She is very selective and often the context is out of focus. As is with most of Carol's diffs you've selected and the accompanying analysis. No I won't tell you which ones. Figure it out for yourself, I suggest by visiting the archive which contains the diff and read everything. You seem to be involved in lots of Arb cases over the years. You play your cards right and they might make you an honorary bailiff.Two kinds of pork_Bacon 02:10, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case "List of..."

Hi! I tried to answer your question, thnx for putting it instead of dismissing the case as Beeblebrox , Newyorkbrad and Seraphimblade have done. I assume Adam Cuerden could have made a stronger case. Point is, thats not about a WMC-and I issue. As pointed out by User:NewsAndEventsGuy, the list was created is an internal pet tool and navigation stronghold of a group of editors. Thats not what WP is about. Therefore the arbcom may be the right adress. Serten (talk) 20:53, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

@Serten: since you've had a questionable accuracy repeating my position in the past, I would like to fact check this instance; what the devil is a "WMS-and I issue" you seem to think I asserted? NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 21:02, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Hope you get what I mean after I inserted a full stop and WMC instead of WMS. WMC refers to Connolley. Serten (talk) 21:06, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Oh, I see. You went after WMC at ANI when - by your admission above - you apparently knew that wasn't the real issue. I opined in that filing that BOOMERANG might apply, and with this admission of WP:FORUMSHOPPING I think that more strongly than I did before. I'll set aside the confirmation bias that resulted when you tried to understand my comment while reading with your anti-AGF perspective. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 21:23, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Connolley is the one behaving repeatedly, offensively and especially low in AGF in different articles. Goodness, I went to ANI with that case after he had overdone it finally. Much more annoying me (and others) is that aggressive group think protecting that list. Why should I insist on blocking WMC, which is, as Ronz reminded me, already under a partial topic ban? I am quite OK how User:Sphilbrick#Wrong_page.... dealt with the issue and how the community reacted. Serten (talk) 21:57, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

I haven' commented either way on WMC's acts, only saying you lack clean hands to bitch about casting aspersions and failing to assume good faith. IF you want to make meaningful improvements here's some advice..... Your posts wander all over and go off topic frequently. You argue multiple issues at once. You're feeling shit upon because, frankly, you're not using the TPG to make it simple to reason with you, and you bash people instead of using polite, patient, and gradually-escalating WP:DR like WP:THIRD for starters. Without approving or disapproving of anyone else's conduct, maybe you would do better to set aside the WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality and never ever

never ever ever

mention user conduct on the article talk page? If you claim to be a scientist you can probably relate to chaning the inputs usually changes the results, right? :::::NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 23:46, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Please be so kind and reduce militant or abusive language, even my Bundeswehr superiors orders were in more civil tone. Your "ingroup conversations" - compare User_talk:Dmcq#Huh.3F - seem to be infected as well, so the manure is not on me. Serten (talk) 00:51, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Can we move this to another talk page? Why is this on my talk page, which is intended to communicate with and about me? Most of this doesn't affect me. Can we move it? Robert McClenon (talk) 02:08, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

OK by me to just waste it. If it does get moved (and anywhere is fine by me) please provide an FYI pointer. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 06:42, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Robert, I just went here to answer your question on the Arbcom. If youre OK with the response, dustbin or archive it. Serten (talk) 08:05, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Case opened

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Landmark Worldwide. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Landmark Worldwide/Evidence. Please add your evidence by October 30, 2014, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Landmark Worldwide/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, S Philbrick(Talk) 01:52, 16 October 2014 (UTC)--S Philbrick(Talk) 01:52, 16 October 2014 (UTC)

Arbcom

Thank you for your edits on Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gender_Gap_Task_Force/Evidence and your inclusion of my original ANI stuff. School has kept me off WP mostly and I really do not wish to be involved in this ARBCOM... I'm so sick of this shit. But I felt I should at least thank you. Cheers. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 04:51, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

You'll probably notice I did not create a section about you on my submission. Not for the lack of diffs, space or time, but rather I felt that your conduct was not even close to the level of trouble that Carol and Neotarf displayed. A quick look at your other efforts, while at times shows a slight POV (and whose doesn't) you usually show good faith and are reasonable. I completely understand why many people take issues with Eric, and respond accordingly. IMO you should not be held to account for this.Two kinds of pork_Bacon 05:18, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Robert, regarding this, were you actually requested to strike those diffs by anyone in authority, or were you simply acting on the complaint of Drmis? Patrol forty (talk) 18:26, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Why do you plaster someone else's statement without vetting it first? Especially Carol's submissions? The ANI page you clipped had many people state that there was a problem with her claims. You surely saw those too. If you have any good faith you will review the full archive in question and then strike "Later at this diff he wonders if systemic bias exists - in a task force of Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Countering systemic bias." from the evidence page.Two kinds of pork_Bacon 04:17, 18 October 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Prehistoric Bajada "hanging" canals of southeastern Arizona

You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Prehistoric Bajada "hanging" canals of southeastern Arizona. Should you wish to respond, your contribution to this discussion will be appreciated. For tips, please see WP:Requests for comment#Suggestions for responding. If you wish to change the frequency or topics of these notices, or do not wish to receive them any longer, please adjust your entries at WP:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:04, 22 October 2014 (UTC)

Started a page move request in Talk:Prehistoric Bajada "hanging" canals of southeastern Arizona. --George Ho (talk) 03:09, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Historicity of Jesus case opened

You were recently listed as a party to a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Historicity of Jesus. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Historicity of Jesus/Evidence. Please add your evidence by November 6, 2014, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Historicity of Jesus/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, → Call me Hahc21 20:33, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks

For taking the heat. Couldn't have kept this up without you. ---- CharlesGillingham (talk) 06:51, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

September alert to User:Luxure

Hello Robert M. While checking for a DS alert, I saw you had notified User:Luxure on September 20 of the WP:ARBMAC sanctions. Can I ask what the issue was that caused you to take this action? Also, is there any significance to the fact you've complained about Luxure both at AN and AE? Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 17:37, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) On climate pages, I give DS alerts on a regular basis to lots of people, just because I don't know them and they've shown a sudden keen interest. The new DS alert system is explicitly crafted to be informational only, with no imputation intended. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 18:40, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

I have no concern about Robert's notice, but would like to know if there are diffs from anything that happened in September that might bear on the current AN and AE discussions. The name Luxure is not familiar to me. EdJohnston (talk) 18:52, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Ah, sorry to butt in. As you were. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 18:54, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

First, as to why I notified, I would have to research, but I recall that, although he wasn't the most unreasonable of the editors, he was being uncivil, and I gave the alerts to all of the editors who were being uncivil. As to why I reported it twice, I was aware that it might seem to be forum shopping, but I originally reported it at AN because the RFC was open at AN and was uncloseable in its current state, part of the requested discussion having been deleted. On further research I realized that I couldn't close anyway, having been involved (only in cautioning the other editors), and then checked to see whether Luxure had been already cautioned, which wasn't on his talk page. I saw that I had cautioned him, and that he deleted it with a hostile edit summary. Robert McClenon (talk) 21:19, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

As I said, he wasn't the most uncivil of the editors, but he was uncivil, and had been warned, and I have a hard time assuming good faith about deleting most of the archive after archiving it. Robert McClenon (talk) 21:19, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. EdJohnston (talk) 22:02, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

I reformatted two links in your AE complaint. I hope that's OK. Your phrase about 'Request for Closure of RFCs' looks like you may have wanted it to be a link to something in WP:AN/RFC. It's not at the moment. When you cite 'Diffs of previous relevant sanctions' down below, the links don't work. You could just say 'None' if there were no previous sanctions. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 22:17, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:08, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Regarding Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement#Luxure. User:Taivo (at AN) and User:Future Perfect at Sunrise have given their opinion that no sanction is needed. FP thinks this was a technical mistake by Luxure. Do you still think that admins should take action? Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 03:54, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

I am willing to let it drop at this point. I consider the idea that the deletion of most of the archive was a technical mistake to be incredible, that is, unworthy of belief by a rational human being. The original archiving was done correctly. The deletion of about three-quarters of the archive was done twelve minutes later. The deletion was done on purpose for some reason. However, if two uninvolved admins think that it isn't worth pursuing, I am willing to let the matter drop. Robert McClenon (talk) 15:11, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

Query

Hi, Robert. I don't quite understand why you posted such an angy "welcome" on 172.56.6.43 (talk · contribs · WHOIS). Their note on ANI wasn't in practice helpful, no, but could surely have been posted by a n00b with an intention of helping. You say it was reverted — was it? If so it has been restored, and answered. Are you assuming it's a troll with a grudge against Tutelary? Bishonen | talk 09:18, 27 October 2014 (UTC).

ARBAB

The wording on the ruling makes it pretty clear that yes, it is. CPCs are related to abortion even narrowly construed. 4.1) Standard discretionary sanctions are authorized for all pages† articles related to abortion, broadly construed. Also there's a Discretionary Sanctions notice on the article's talk page already. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 19:39, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

Crisis Pregnancy Centers

Thanks for the tag on my talk page, but I'm already well aware of the DS on abortion pages. Maybe you should consider reminding a few others. I'd be happy to give you some suggestions if needed. Cloonmore (talk) 03:24, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Somehow you found me. I'm sure with a little effort you can locate actual edit warriors to tag. Cloonmore (talk) 19:07, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

Evidence

@Robert McClenon, I reviewed your evidence thus far, per your request. It would be helpful if you could provide specific diffs that demonstrate where progress on improving the article itself was impeded. Despite the wall-of-words on the talk page, I didn't see much evidence of disruption on the article page. The arbs are going to want to know about that. Also, linking to archived talk pages, and saying in effect "it's all in there somewhere", is not going to be appreciated by the drafting arb. Please try to be more specific. Other than the four examples you provided, what specific behavior rises to the level of misconduct, and what policies are being violated? For example, pointing out that someone was argumentative on the article talk page is not very persuasive, unless the arguments include casting aspersions or other forms of personal attacks. These are just suggestions of course. It's completely up to you to provide evidence as you see fit. Ignocrates (talk) 00:36, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Clarification request

The Arbitration Committee agreed that the article Crisis pregnancy center is subject to Discretionary sanctions under the WP:ARBAB decision.

The decision is archived here

For the Arbitration Committee, --S Philbrick(Talk) 12:28, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Mitch McConnell

Mitch McConnell was listed at RFPP and then I saw the report at Edit warring. I semi-protected Harry Reid as both articles seemed to be getting similar edits to the one made by Tina cain. I also gave them another warning. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 19:19, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

I had sort of figured that it had to do with that and the date of taking office as minority/majority leader which appears to be 2015. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 19:21, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

I thought that was the main thing. They are brand new user though, just registered today, and may not understand the way Misplaced Pages operates. Semi-protecting the page means that they can't edit it and will be required to use the talk page. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 19:32, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

With the bit of luck they may decide to use the talk page. CambridgeBayWeather, Uqaqtuq (talk), Sunasuttuq 19:45, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Orrin Hatch

Orrin Hatch is the highest ranking republican member of the US Senate. By virtue of that rank he is the natural designate for the position of President pro tempore of the United States Senate. The precedent for this is backed by Senate tradition that dates back to the 1790's. It has also been substantiated by the following source > >ref>http://www.sltrib.com/news/1787743-155/hatch-senate-presidency-president-sen-chamber</ref>

let me know if you have contradicting information that should be considered.Jimgerbig (talk) 19:49, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Truth Seeker Jimgerbig (talk) 19:55, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Winkelvi

I'm not sure why you would go to a perfect stranger's talk page and accuse him of ranting. The whole point of a Noticeaboard is to talk things out. I'm also not sure how the person who isn't cursing and using the f-word against another editor is the one at fault. --Tenebrae (talk) 21:28, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

November 2014

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Reference Errors on 5 November

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Comments and Observations

Totally different subject

Your talk page is becoming quite long (5x PgDown to get to the end of the TOC). An other archive page would be appreciated. WyattAlex (talk) 22:50, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

VisualEditor newsletter—November 2014

VisualEditor is also available on the mobile version of Misplaced Pages. Login and click the pencil icon to open the page you want to edit. Click on the gear-shaped settings in the upper-right corner, to pick which editor to use. Choose "Edit" to use VisualEditor, or "Edit source" to use the wikitext editor.

It will remember whether you used wikitext or VisualEditor, and use the same editor the next time you edit an article.

The user guide has information about how to use VisualEditor. Not all features are available in Mobile Web.

Since the last newsletter, the Editing Team has fixed many bugs and requests, and worked on support for editing tables and for using non-Latin languages. Their weekly updates are posted on Mediawiki.org. Informal notes from the recent quarterly review were posted on Meta.

Recent improvements

The French Misplaced Pages should see better search results for links, templates, and media because the new search engine was turned on for everyone there. This change is expected at the Chinese and German Wikipedias next week, and eventually at the English Misplaced Pages.

The "pawn" system has been mostly replaced. Bugs in this system sometimes added a chess pawn character to wikitext. The replacement provides better support for non-Latin languages, with full support hopefully coming soon.

VisualEditor is now provided to editors who use Internet Explorer 10 or 11 on desktop and mobile devices. Internet Explorer 9 is not supported yet.

The keyboard shortcuts for items in the toolbar's menus are now shown in the menus. VisualEditor will replace the existing design with a new theme from the User Experience / Design group. The appearance of dialogs has already changed in one Mobile version. The appearance on desktops will change soon. (You can see a developer preview of the old "Apex" design and the new "MediaWiki" theme which will replace it.)

Several bugs were fixed for internal and external links. Improvements to MediaWiki's search solved an annoying problem: If you searched for the full name of the page or file that you wanted to link, sometimes the search program could not find the page. A link inside a template, to a local page that does not exist, will now show red, exactly as it does when reading the page. Due to a error, for about two weeks this also affected all external links inside templates. Opening an auto-numbered link node like with the keyboard used to open the wrong link tool. These problems have all been fixed.

TemplateData

The tool for quickly editing TemplateData will be deployed to all Wikimedia Foundation wikis on Thursday, 6 November.  This tool is already available on the biggest 40 Wikipedias, and now all wikis will have access to it. This tool makes it easier to add TemplateData to the template's documentation.  When the tool is enabled, it will add a button above every editing window for a template (including documentation subpages). To use it, edit the template or a subpage, and then click the "Edit template data" button at the top.  Read the help page for TemplateData. You can test the TemplateData editor in a sandbox at Mediawiki.org. Remember that TemplateData should be placed either on a documentation subpage or on the template page itself. Only one block of TemplateData will be used per template.

You can use the new autovalue setting to pre-load a value into a template. This can be used to substitute dates, as in this example, or to add the most common response for that parameter. The autovalue can be easily overridden by the editor, by typing something else in the field.

In TemplateData, you may define a parameter as "required". The template dialog in VisualEditor will warn editors if they leave a "required" parameter empty, and they will not be able to delete that parameter. If the template can function without this parameter, then please mark it as "suggested" or "optional" in TemplateData instead.

Looking ahead

Basic support for inserting tables and changing the number of rows and columns in tables will appear next Wednesday. Advanced features, like dragging columns to different places, will be possible later. The VisualEditor team plans to add auto-fill features for citations soon. To help editors find the most important items more quickly, some items in the toolbar menus will be hidden behind a "More" item, such as "underlining" in the styling menu. The appearance of the media search dialog will improve, to make picking between possible images easier and more visual. The team posts details about planned work on the VisualEditor roadmap.

The user guide will be updated soon to add information about editing tables. The translations for most languages except Spanish, French, and Dutch are significantly out of date. Please help complete the current translations for users who speak your language. Talk to us if you need help exporting the translated guide to your wiki.

You can influence VisualEditor's design. Tell the VisualEditor team what you want changed during the office hours via IRC. The next sessions are on Wednesday, 19 November at 16:00 UTC and on Wednesday 7 January 2015 at 22:00 UTC. You can also share your ideas at mw:VisualEditor/Feedback.

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Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Countering systemic bias/Gender gap task force

Hey Robert, we haven't always agreed on everything, but I appreciated your comments there, which were thoughtful and calm. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 23:47, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Battle of Cedar Creek

You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Battle of Cedar Creek. Should you wish to respond, your contribution to this discussion will be appreciated. For tips, please see WP:Requests for comment#Suggestions for responding. If you wish to change the frequency or topics of these notices, or do not wish to receive them any longer, please adjust your entries at WP:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:01, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Chevalier d'Eon Closure

Hey, thanks for closing the Chevalier d'Eon RfC. Frankly, that whole thing was a mess - as much my fault as anyone else's. However, I think you may have overstepped the consensus in this case. I think (and you acknowledge) that there's a clear consensus that d'Eon is an edge case per MOS, but there's no consensus about what to do about that. The problem is that you can't really just say, "Oh well since d'Eon is an edge case and MOS doesn't address edge cases, we'll just follow MOS." Doesn't make sense - the consensus was that d'Eon's gender was likely not a matter of self-expression but rather of deliberate ambiguity. I would appreciate it if you would amend the closure to indicate that the process resulted in no recommended course of action. At the moment we've just avoided pronouns entirely, but obviously that will have to change at some point, but it should change by consensus. 0x0077BE 15:26, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

RfC closure at Talk:Nofel Izz

I moved your closure comment an formatting to the RfC specifically, then pointed out that there was indeed a specific question . I hope this isn't a problem.

How should I have worded the RfC to make the question clearer and more prominent?

As the issue of all the sources being poor wasn't directly addressed or answered in the RfC, I'll be taking it to the BLP noticeboard after wrapping up the current issues: those brought up at FTN, the edit-warring and ownership problems that has driven a new editor away, and the coi and paid editing problems. --Ronz (talk) 16:54, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Unrelated RfC?

Thanks for the close on Oathkeeper. You said that you saw an unrelated RfC running. What did you mean? Is it on another talk page? Darkfrog24 (talk) 21:44, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Feminists Engage Misplaced Pages

	The Feminists Engage Misplaced Pages Award!
	If Adrienne Wadewitz were here, she would give you an award for all you have done! Djembayz (talk) 23:43, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Arbcom evidence

It appears that you added evidence about User:IseeEwe without informing the editor. Please do so.--S Philbrick(Talk) 14:32, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

RfC

As you participated in a previous related discussion you are invited to comment at Misplaced Pages:Administrators/RfC for an Admin Review Board. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:12, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

DangerousPanda arbitation request opened

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration and have not been listed as a party. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/DangerousPanda. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/DangerousPanda/Evidence. Please add your evidence by 3 December 2014, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/DangerousPanda/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 12:36, 19 November 2014 (UTC). Message delivered by MediaWiki message delivery

Moving Discussion on Reference Desk

Hi Robert McClenon, just for your information, your use of the Hidden Archive template caused edit-conflict(s). The result was that some of my edits were lost in the move. No big deal (for me, at least) - I'm savvy enough to notice and fix that stuff up. However, some other users might not be so able to micromanage the edit-conflict resolution.

In the future, if you feel that you need to move a discussion to another page, you might just use a simple wiki-link, instead of an archive template. That'll prevent MediaWiki's automatic edit conflict resolver from munging up the content.

Nimur (talk) 18:36, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Maruthusrm

I noticed the message you recently left to a newcomer. Please remember not to bite the newcomers. If you see someone make a common mistake, try to politely point out what they did wrong and how to correct it. Thank you. 209.104.250.2 (talk) 15:56, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Inter-civil war violence in Libya

You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Inter-civil war violence in Libya. Should you wish to respond, your contribution to this discussion will be appreciated. For tips, please see Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment § Suggestions for responding. If you wish to change the frequency or topics of these notices, or do not wish to receive them any longer, please adjust your entries at WP:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:02, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

GamerGate (again)

Realistically, I agree that today's attempt to edit-war and then wiki-lawyer the removal of "false allegations" merits sanctions. In practice, I foresee dozens of hours of tedious work, likely leading to minor sanctions against secondary players while the main culprits continue their relentless campaign against female game developers. I'm not sure I have the time to lead this charge, though I suppose I would be willing if it were absolutely necessary; yesterday's endless wrangling with an administrator who insists that no picture could depict "rape" took a lot out of me. I'd welcome guidance on how best to proceed, avoiding protracted and pointless process. As it is, this morass is demanding many more hours than I can afford.MarkBernstein (talk) 01:12, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Lift(Force) closure

Hi Robert,

Thanks for your help at Talk:lift(Force), but it appears the issue wasn't adequately explained in the request for closure - a formal request for closure was filed at Project Aviation talk page, but no one acted upon it. After a week or so one of the editors took it to AN/I, where one of the regulars there punted it over to the requests for closure noticeboard without adequately explaining the issue. You picked it up from there.

Since it's the first thread on the page it is understandable why you would think we were at odds over "humans cannot fully explain why airfoils generate lift", but that discussion had run its course and no further action was needed. It was not the issue that prompted the request for closure or the post on AN/I.

The issue is: should the following statement appear in the article:

"The resulting force upwards is equal to the time rate of change of momentum of the air downwards."

That's what we are trying to settle, and unfortunately I'm not seeing us being any closer as a result of the discussion close. Should we just make a new request for closure, or is there some other course of action that you'd advocate? Thanks. Mr. Swordfish (talk) 20:06, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Bill Clinton

But in 2004 wouln't he have been "then serving", not "former" (He's "former" now in "2012")? Or do I need a glass of wine? Alexbrn 17:54, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Don't worry, I know the answer: I need a glass of wine (they'd changed president by 2004!) Alexbrn 17:55, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate opened

You recently offered a statement in a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate/Evidence. Please add your evidence by December 11, 2014, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/GamerGate/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Ks0stm 22:28, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Your comment

It's been a while since you posted on my talk page, and I've been busy and haven't had a chance to respond. I'm unclear why you posted. It was an unsolicited comment from someone who, as far as I know, I haven't run across before. And given that the topic was an uncivil editor who likes to throw f-combs at other editors, I'm not sure of your point or, more significantly, why you were concerned. I would like to think it is not that you condone editors cursing one another with the variations on the word "fuck", although if so, I do hope you don't come back and start cursing at me or post more unwelcome comments — as I said, I don't know you and I don't know why you felt it was necessary to post something like you did to the talk page of a perfect stranger. I would note that the admin involved in that issue is himself the subject of an ANI brought up by editors other than me.

Hopefully, now that you've said your piece and I've said mine, we can go our separate ways and not cross paths again. That seems like the most peaceful thing. --Tenebrae (talk) 01:22, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Thanks for helping me break my chains, even if you did not intend to do it in quite that way. I'll probably see you again when I a septuagenarian!

Carolmooredc (Talkie-Talkie) 17:01, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Interactions at GGTF closed

This arbitration case has been closed and the final decision is available at the link above. The following remedies have been enacted:

1. Editors topic banned by the Committee under this remedy are prohibited on the English Misplaced Pages from: (i) editing the pages of the Gender Gap Task Force; (ii) discussing the gender disparity among Wikipedians; and (iii) participating in any process broadly construed to do with these topics. An uninvolved admin may remove any comments that breach this remedy, and impose blocks as necessary. The Committee's standard provisions on enforcement of arbitration provisions and appeals and modifications of arbitration enforcements apply.
2. Carolmooredc (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is indefinitely topic banned from the Gender gap topic.
3. For her actions discussed in this case, Carolmooredc is indefinitely banned from the English Language Misplaced Pages. She may request reconsideration of the ban twelve months after the enactment of this remedy, and every twelve months thereafter.
4. Eric Corbett (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is indefinitely topic banned from the Gender gap topic.
5. Eric Corbett agrees to a restriction prohibiting him from shouting at, swearing at, insulting and/or belittling other editors. The restriction comes into immediate effect on the passing of this motion.

   If Eric Corbett finds himself tempted to engage in prohibited conduct, he is to disengage and either let the matter drop or refer it to another editor to resolve.

   If however, in the opinion of an uninvolved administrator, Eric Corbett does engage in prohibited conduct, he may be blocked. The first two such blocks shall be of 72 hours duration, increasing thereafter for each subsequent breach to one week, one month, and three months. Any blocks under this provision are arbitration enforcement actions and may only be reviewed or appealed at the arbitration enforcement noticeboard. Should a fifth block (three months) prove necessary, the blocking administrator must notify the Arbitration Committee of the block via a Request for Clarification and Amendment so that the remedy may be reviewed.

   The enforcing administrator may also at their discretion fully protect Eric Corbett's talk page for the duration of the block.

   Nothing in this remedy prevents enforcement of policy by uninvolved administrators in the usual way.

6. Neotarf (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is indefinitely topic banned from the Gender gap topic. Neotarf is also warned that complaints about usernames should be made through appropriate channels and that further accusations, as well as unnecessary antagonism, may result in sanctions.
7. For their actions discussed in this case, and in particular for adopting a consistently hostile attitude to other contributors, Neotarf is indefinitely banned from the English Misplaced Pages. They may request reconsideration of the ban twelve months after the enactment of this remedy, and every twelve months thereafter.
8. Sitush (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is warned not to create articles regarding editors he is in dispute with.
9. Sitush and Carolmooredc are indefinitely prohibited from interacting with, or commenting on, each other anywhere on Misplaced Pages (subject to the ordinary exceptions).
10. SPECIFICO (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)'s actions regarding Carolmooredc have led to a 1-way interaction ban imposed by the community following a noticeboard discussion.
11. Two kinds of pork (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is indefinitely topic banned from the Gender gap topic.
12. Standard discretionary sanctions are authorized for pages relating to the Gender gap task force. The availability of sanctions is not intended to prevent free and candid discussion on these pages, but sanctions should be imposed if an editor severely or persistently disrupts the discussion.

For the Arbitration Committee, Ks0stm 08:42, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Discuss this

Copyvio rewrites

Hi! Thanks for your work on Joseph Rodney Moss. That page will be evaluated in 7 or (given the size of the backlog at WP:CP) probably more days. Just a note for the future: if you want to work on a rewrite of a copyvio-blanked page, could you please do so on the specific sub-page provided rather than working on the article itself? (to get there, click "show" to the right of where it says Otherwise, you may write a new article without copyright-infringing material. Click "Show" to read where and how) That means that whoever deals with the problem can easily compare the new version with the old, and decide whether the rewrite should be moved to replace the existing version. What you've done will probably be just fine (and please don't get me wrong, any help with copyright cleanup is always welcome!), but it is, technically, out of process. Given that there's been some criticism of my actions and/or judgement in listing this particular article, I won't in any case be closing it myself. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 23:53, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant

You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant. Should you wish to respond, your contribution to this discussion will be appreciated. For tips, please see Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment § Suggestions for responding. If you wish to change the frequency or topics of these notices, or do not wish to receive them any longer, please adjust your entries at WP:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:02, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Talk:Inter-civil war violence in Libya#Requested move

I started an official page move discussion. --George Ho (talk) 06:39, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

Interplanetary Contamination merge discussion

Hi Robert, I wonder, can you close the merge discussion here now? No activity for getting on for three months now.

Talk:Interplanetary_contamination#Merger

Robert Walker (talk) 13:19, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes this is separate thing, totally unrelated to the other one. Just thought I'd mention it while here. Robert Walker (talk) 18:35, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Just to say, thanks for closing it. I didn't know that we were expected to publicize it on the project talk page. Anyway in this case I think the other editor just lost interest in the discussion. Good to have it closed though, as that's a chance to move on from the merge and do a bit more editing of the articles, just minor editing, wanted to get rid of the references section which I have just done which the other editor wanted me to keep for the duration of the discussion.

I'll be surprised if he wants to re-open it, but will see. Robert Walker (talk) 01:59, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

User Conduct issue for Karma in Buddhism and Four Noble Truths

Hi Robert, this is a question about user conduct.

There is a big discussion going on and an RfC, so not expecting you to say anything about that. Just about the user conduct issue.

It is particularly clear in case of Karma in Buddhism. It was a mature article, worked on for many years. User:Dorje108 worked on it for eighteen months starting in spring 2013 before this incident.

User:Joshua Jonathan had never previously edited the page, and never commented on its talk page either. He doesn't appear in either history as far as I can see before these edits. Though he has been a wikipedia editor of articles on Buddhism for years.

Diff for Karma in Buddhism: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Karma_in_Buddhism&diff=635624203&oldid=632340477

He has turned a mature article into an article best described as a reasonably credible first draft - but with many errors in it.

Here is his summary of his changes, which he posted as a "clean up" after he had finished his work rewriting the article. He didn't post anything before or during it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Karma_in_Buddhism#Summary_of_clean-up

He also applied the same approach to the Four Noble Truths, diff here:

For Four Noble Truths: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Four_Noble_Truths&diff=635891831&oldid=629066305

And this is what User:Dorje108 says about it.

Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Buddhism#Recent_re-writes_of_key_concepts

So - User:Joshua Jonathan has his reasons. Basically he thinks that these articles should rely on the work of a small group of Western academics and he doesn't think the Eastern references to Tibetan and Thervadhan scholars should be used here, or their views expressed in these articles.

He calls all these Eastern scholars "primary sources" that, he believes, should only be cited in Misplaced Pages as primary sources and understood as filtered through the lens of the Western academics when they discuss their work.

He is undoubtedly sincere. We have a RfC on this issue, and there are currently three in support of use of Eastern scholars as secondary sources and three opposed to this.

But the user conduct thing is - that is it permissible for an editor to do such a radical rewrite of a significant article on Misplaced Pages without first discussing his edits on the talk page first?

Or, do we have a case for a rollback, just based on his conduct, and to require him to present his changes one at a time, for discussion by Dorje108 and anyone else who is interested? Or is there any other form of action we can take in this situation? He is not interested in rolling back of his own accord, have asked him several times about that.

I'd like also to mention that Dorje108 has ceased contributing to Misplaced Pages on Buddhism since this event which destroyed most of his contributions to the encyclopedia for the last eighteen months. Did nothing for a month or so and has now started this RfC to clarify policy on secondary sources which seems to be the main issue. Also that he is a non contentious editor, collaborative in style, good at working with his fellow editors. Even User:Joshua Jonathan agrees on that.

I don't want to do any action right now. Just asking for information. If you think we have a case for some form of action, I will report to Dorje108 and see what he wants to do and take it from there.

BTW I have never edited either article myself except to fix one broken link in the Karma in Buddhism article. I am writing this as a reader who is concerned to see what I considered an excellent article, one of the most scholarly articles on Buddhism in wikipedia in my view, "wrecked" in this way.

Thanks! Robert Walker (talk) 13:48, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

This issue has been "discussed" over and over for the past few weeks. Here's my "offer of truce". Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 15:01, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Robert, just to clarify, I don't want you to comment on the RfC or on whether Joshua Jonathan is justified in his edits.

It is just a question on whether this is a user conduct issue based on the diffs and history and this action of an editor rewriting a mature article without any prior discussion on its talk page first. In case of the 4 noble truths article, I wasn't following that - but the diffs show that it was a similar story, a sudden quick revision of the entire article without previous discussion. Though in that case he had discussed some of the issues before on its talk page. Still he did a major revision without discussing step by step his reasons for making such a radical change to a mature article.

In case of Karma in Buddhism there was absolutely no discussion on the talk page at all either before or during the edits. Is this sort of behaviour permitted, or encouraged for mature articles on Misplaced Pages - or do we have a case for a rollback just based on the user behaviour. That's what I want to ask about. The articles were scholarly in presentation, and well cited throughout as you can easily check. His "offer of truce" is just a suggestion that I stop discussing this issue. Robert Walker (talk) 16:16, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

It seems that I have been asked to look at two unrelated issues, a merger about space exploration and Karma in Buddhism. I will look at both. I will point out that, as a Catholic, I am uninvolved in Karma in Buddhism and will try to be objective. I will look. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:28, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, they are unrelated, thanks for looking at them! Robert Walker (talk) 18:36, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Per WP:CANVAS, the request from Robert Walker was nowhere near neutral. It is thus canvassing.VictoriaGrayson 17:58, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

User Conduct issue for Karma in Buddhism and Four Noble Truths

Hi Robert, okay trying again hope this is clearer.

User Conduct issue - revision of an existing mature article into an almost completely new article that resembles a "first draft"

It is about user conduct for User:Joshua Jonathan. He recently edited two articles on Four Noble Truths and on Karma in Buddhism. I first became aware of this for Karma in Buddhism.

It was a mature article, worked on by several editors, first created in May 2006. Most recently worked on by User:Dorje108 who worked on it for eighteen months since spring 2013.

This is what it looked like before his edits. Please just notice that it is a mature article with an extensive list of references - see all the citations at the end and how every section is fully cited:

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Karma_in_Buddhism&oldid=632340477

And this is the diff, where what I want you to notice is that User:Joshua Jonathan deleted most of the article and rewrote what was left so that there is almost nothing left of the original

https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Karma_in_Buddhism&diff=635624203&oldid=632340477

And - if you look at the history of the talk page and the article itself, he had never edited it before as far as I can see. Also, he never commented before his edits. Just edited the whole thing into what is essentially a new first draft of the article according to his views of what he thinks it should be like. And then posted a "cleanup summary" when he was done.

He did the same with Four Noble Truths, diff here:

For Four Noble Truths: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Four_Noble_Truths&diff=635891831&oldid=629066305

There he did have prior discussion, of some of the issues - but he did a major rewrite of the entire article without discussing all the edits one step at a time first with the other editors.

And this is what User:Dorje108 says about it all.

"Jonathan’s method is to quickly re-write an entire article without warning or discussion. He leaves no opportunity for other editors who have worked on the article to explain or justify the current content or structure of the article."

See "Methods" under: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Buddhism#Recent_re-writes_of_key_concepts

Dorje108 has stopped editing these articles or contributing to their talk pages as a result.

So my main question is - is this user conduct acceptable. Is it permitted for a user to make such extensive changes to a mature article without discussion? Do we have any resource to any procedure to do something about it? Can we ask for a rollback? Or any other thoughts or suggestions? I have asked him if he will consider a rollback voluntarily of his own accord but he is not interested in that idea.

About the RfC

So also mentioning the RfC but this is not the main focus of my question unless you have thoughts on it also.

He sincerely thinks that he has improved the articles. The reasons behind his method is the subject of a RfC on the Karma in Buddhism talk page, with currently three in favour, three against.

This is how Dorje describes his methods again:

Jonathan is currently asserting that texts by Buddhist writers and teachers (who do not have Western academic training) should be considered primary sources. This means that, from Jonathan’s point of view, the vast majority of actual Buddhist teachers and writers are not reliable secondary sources. You can view Jonathan's opinion here: Talk:Karma_in_Buddhism#Sources.

I completely disagree with Jonathan on this matter. I find this position to be biased and completely unsupportable based on the wiki guidelines. If we follow Jonathan's logic, then the Dalai Lama is to be considered a primary source on key topics in Buddhism (even in a text that is written specifically to explain these topics for a Western audience), but an obscure academic should be considered a secondary source, and thus to be given more weight. - Dorje108 (talk) 23:12, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

And this is the RfC: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Buddhism#RfC:_Are_texts_written_by_Buddhist_writers_and_teachers_that_explain_basic_Buddhist_concepts_reliable_secondary_sources.3F

Conclusion

Is that clearer? Sorry that I use so many words. This is as short as I can make it. Just want advice at present.

Is there anything we can do other than the RfC, can we do a roll back, any other thoughts that may help? Not asking for action right now, just advice. If there is a possibility for action then I think it should be up to User:Dorje108. So I offered to ask you about this as I know you are expert in user conduct issues, and report back to him. See: User_talk:Dorje108#User_Conduct_for_Joshua_Jonathan

Thanks! Robert Walker (talk) 18:32, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Canvassing

I see some canvassing between the 2 Roberts.VictoriaGrayson 18:35, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

No. Robert M. has previously been so kind to help Robert W. around with the do's and don'ts of Misplaced Pages, when he was running into similar problems. That was appreciated by Robert W.,a nd he trusts Robert M. He's asking for guidance, wants to know if there's a user-conduct problem with my edits of "karma in Buddhism" and "Four Noble Truths". That's all. As far as my personal experience goes, it's good to ask for help. Best regards, Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 18:58, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes that's it exactly, thanks! Robert Walker (talk) 19:11, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Sorry still too long I see, will try again

First, I am not Canvassing. I am simply asking for advice on user conduct. Robert McClennon is someone I recognize as an expert in user conduct on Misplaced Pages, this is nothing to do with trying to find support for either side in the RfC or arbitration in it or anything like that.

It is about the rapid editing without discussion on the articles. The RfC obviously is the way to deal with the disputes of content.

This is my main question:

Was it okay for Joshua Jonathan to take an existing mature article, and to rewrite it without prior discussion on the talk page. When the existing article was a scholarly detailed article with many citations, and one that has been edited for many years by previous editors to reach its mature state?

Can we ask him to revert pending resolution of the RfC or pending discussion to resolve the problems on the talk pages?

I would have thought there must be some rule or guideline or procedure to deal with this, otherwise the main articles in wikipedia would continually get rewritten by enthusiastic editors who are convinced that their way of presenting the article is far better.

Is that so? Or if this happens do we have no recourse at all and have to let editors do this?

Is that clearer? What the issue is?

• Article for Karma in Buddhism before his edits showing that it was already in a mature state - with 132 citations, 77 sources and 17 web references: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Karma_in_Buddhism&oldid=632340477

• Diff, showing how the article was totally rewritten without prior discussion https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Karma_in_Buddhism&diff=635624203&oldid=632340477

• Similar diff for Four Noble Truths: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Four_Noble_Truths&diff=635891831&oldid=629066305

Any questions be sure to say!

Robert Walker (talk)

Still short of things to do?

Are you? They won't be back on that IP and, even if they were, they couldn't care less. It seems like just more officiousness for the sake of it. - Sitush (talk) 17:32, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

RfC United States same-sex marriage map

I opened up an RfC for the U.S. same-sex marriage map due to the complicated situation of Kansas: RfC: How should we color Kansas? Prcc27 (talk) 12:20, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Incorporation at Talk:United States

Territories without all provisions of the Constitution applying are today called “unincorporated” in the judicial sense. Of course, all provisions will never apply until territories are made states. But historically territories have been made “a part of the United States” at citizenship and self-governance.

“Incorporation” is a judicial doctrine to establish an internal tax on island sugar, so territories were deemed “foreign in a domestic sense”. Later the doctrine was extended to restrict application of constitutional provisions until Congress extended them to the territories. No databases use the judicially “incorporated” 50 states, DC and Palmyra Atoll as the standard.

To become a part of the United States by Congress is another issue, which I have approached from a historical perspective, supported by legal scholars, political scientists and current executive, legislative and judicial sources. Possessions have had a military governor, unincorporated territories have had a governor appointed by the president…POLITICALLY incorporated territories have three-branch self-government under federal courts as the modern day territories do have. The five major territories have the same delegate Member of Congress as the “incorporated” DC.

To avoid all the internal distinctions, the Encyclopedia Britannica since at least 1911 continues to report the U.S. as consisting of states only, now 50 states --- but without including DC and the five major territories until discussing territorial extent. Most U.S. databases use "50 states and DC".

But scholars Van Dyke and Sparrow include 50 states, DC and five major territories as "a part of the United States", so I thought to improve WP by using secondary sourced information per wp:psts. --- older≠wiser thinks I may have a point for the Infobox area and population, which I would compromise to footnote with "50 states and DC" figures, but he believes that the territorial status is too "murky" for me to prevail in the article narrative. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 10:13, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Scope of U.S. -- Interested parties

Robert McClenon, while it may seem that the discussion at the Talk:United States RfC is only between me and TFD, there are some 20 interested parties on the subject of the scope of the United States.

Participants in the RfC include Robert McClenon, TheVirginiaHistorian, Golbez, TFD, Collect, Wzrd1, RicJack, older ≠ wiser who is Bkonrad for notifications, Alanscottwalker, Khajidha, Mark Miller. Then also, there was discussion on including territories in the U.S. geographical area just prior, including additionally OuroborosCobra, RightCowLeftCoast, VictorD7, Elvey, Student7. Others who may be interested participated in discussion on the previous dispute resolution last year, include Gwillhickers, Noleander, Mendaliv, VictorD7, Buzity, older ≠ wiser, TFD, Golbez, RightCowLeftCoast, Collect. Some overlap, I hope I haven’t missed anyone. TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 16:02, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

RfM notice of participants

Although you notified me of an upcoming Request for Mediation directly, I have not yet received notice otherwise on my Talk page. How is notice delivered for the ten listed? Does it wait until the RfC is closed? Who does it? TheVirginiaHistorian (talk) 08:44, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Formal mediation has been requested

The Mediation Committee has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to "United States". As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. Mediation is a voluntary process which resolves a dispute over article content by facilitation, consensus-building, and compromise among the involved editors. After reviewing the request page, the formal mediation policy, and the guide to formal mediation, please indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate. Because requests must be responded to by the Mediation Committee within seven days, please respond to the request by 25 December 2014.

Discussion relating to the mediation request is welcome at the case talk page. Thank you.
Message delivered by MediationBot (talk) on behalf of the Mediation Committee. 15:51, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

VisualEditor newsletter—December 2014

Did you know?

Basic table editing is now available in VisualEditor. You can add and remove rows and columns from existing tables at the click of a button.

The user guide has more information about how to use VisualEditor.

Since the last newsletter, the Editing Team has fixed many bugs and worked on table editing and performance. Their weekly status reports are posted on Mediawiki.org. Upcoming plans are posted at the VisualEditor roadmap.

VisualEditor was deployed to several hundred remaining wikis as an opt-in beta feature at the end of November, except for most Wiktionaries (which depend heavily upon templates) and all Wikisources (which await integration with ProofreadPage).

Recent improvements

Basic support for editing tables is available. You can insert new tables, add and remove rows and columns, set or remove a caption for a table, and merge cells together. To change the contents of a cell, double-click inside it. More features will be added in the coming months. In addition, VisualEditor now ignores broken, invalid rowspan and colspan elements, instead of trying to repair them.

You can now use find and replace in VisualEditor, reachable through the tool menu or by pressing ⌃ Ctrl+F or ⌘ Cmd+F.

You can now create and edit simple <blockquote> paragraphs for quoting and indenting content. This changes a "Paragraph" into a "Block quote".

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Looking ahead

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Thank you! WhatamIdoing (WMF) (talk) 23:37, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:SupremeSAT(Pvt.)

You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Talk:SupremeSAT(Pvt.). Should you wish to respond, your contribution to this discussion will be appreciated. For tips, please see Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment § Suggestions for responding. If you wish to change the frequency or topics of these notices, or do not wish to receive them any longer, please adjust your entries at WP:Feedback request service. — Legobot (talk) 00:02, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

User FelixRosch

Thank you for your attention to the situation regarding the article Metropolitan (1990 film). However, I do not see how my assertions about user FelixRosch constitute "attacks." The user has continually reverted the text in the article to a summary which appears to have been written by a non-English speaker and is composed of grammatically and syntactically incorrect sentences. He has also refused to engage in dialogue about the article until other users "acknowledge him," and as a cursory glimpse of his talk page will show, has a history of abusive behavior towards other editors and administrators. I have put forth numerous good faith efforts to edit the page to be up to Wiki's quality standards, efforts which FelixRosch has repeatedly held up for no other reason than no one consulted him before edits were made to the page.76.31.249.221 (talk) 19:23, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your continued attention to this issue. I respectfully change my complaint of vandalism to an issue of competency as regards language difficulty. An examination of Felix's edits, which I have requested multiple admin to make, will reveal that his contributions to the page do not demonstrate a proficiency with the English language.76.31.249.221 (talk) 23:26, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for your compassionate efforts. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 08:21, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Template

On your user page you use non-existent template

Template:De-2.

Did you intend the following?

Historicity of Jesus arbitration case - proposed decision posted

This is a courtesy message to inform you that the proposed decision has been posted for the Historicity of Jesus arbitration case. Constructive, relevant comments are welcome on the proposed decision talk page. For the Arbitration Committee, Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 03:41, 25 December 2014 (UTC) Message delivered by MediaWiki message delivery (talk).

Mele Kalikimaka

Have a bright Hawaiian Christmas!--Mark Miller (talk) 16:46, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Dispute resolution board

I really don't think that it will help, but I'd like to try your suggestion of the Dispute Resolution Board. However, it's asking me to name everyone involved in the dispute. There have been so many editors, I'm not sure where to start. What do you suggest?

Thank you.

Bohemian Gal (talk) 04:53, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Talkback

Skamecrazy123 (talk) 21:16, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Talkback

Skamecrazy123 (talk) 21:23, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Talkback

Skamecrazy123 (talk) 21:53, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Arbcom

Re: "Follow-up comment: There have still been no filings at arbitration enforcement", are they even allowed to file for AE while arbcom is considering whether to take a case? Or would that be seen as forum shopping? I don't see anything in the arbcom rules that says one way or the other. It's probably going to AE anyway -- I just don't see arbcom taking the case instead of instructing the participants to try AE first. --Guy Macon (talk) 17:37, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks

Hello,

I had forgotten to do so. Thank you 94.210.203.230 (talk) 02:13, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Request for mediation accepted

The request for formal mediation of the dispute concerning United States, in which you were listed as a party, has been accepted by the Mediation Committee. The case will be assigned to an active mediator within two weeks, and mediation proceedings should begin shortly thereafter. Proceedings will begin at the case information page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/United States, so please add this to your watchlist. Formal mediation is governed by the Mediation Committee and its Policy. The Policy, and especially the first two sections of the "Mediation" section, should be read if you have never participated in formal mediation. For a short guide to accepted cases, see the "Accepted requests" section of the Guide to formal mediation. You may also want to familiarise yourself with the internal Procedures of the Committee.

As mediation proceedings begin, be aware that formal mediation can only be successful if every participant approaches discussion in a professional and civil way, and is completely prepared to compromise. Please contact the Committee if anything is unclear.

For the Mediation Committee, TransporterMan (TALK) 14:31, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
(Delivered by MediationBot, on behalf of the Mediation Committee.)

Could you revert your edit that closed the discussion below?

Hello, I am the opening editor of this talk page discussion: Talk:Climate_engineering#Editing_disagreement_over_soot_particles. I have been away for a number of weeks but now I'm back and therefore was about to succinctly respond to User:JonRichfield's argument today, when much to my shock, I noticed just yesterday you closed the discussion, which prevents me from responding. I understand where you got the impression that there is a bit of a consensus on the topic of including the word "firestorm". However I really have no idea where you got the impression that a "rough consensus" had been reached with respect to not mentioning "nuclear winter effects", as the peer-reviewed papers explicitly use those exact words! Why anyone would think that they know better than the original scientists, and push the view that it is acceptable to bastardize sentences that appear in peer-reviewed articles, stripping them of their important facets, is beyond my comprehension.

Moreover, to omit those words would completely mislead readers on how the black soot suspended in the stratosphere would cool the ground temperatures. You yourself seem to not really understand this either, to clarify, it is by means that are not at all like the mechanism by which white sulfates cool the surface by solar radiation management. Instead the "nuclear winter effect"(or more accurately, firestorm winter effect) produces an anti-greenhouse effect with black soot particles, which is completely unlike how the reflective particles, like white sulfates, go about producing true solar radiation management. To use an idiom, the difference really is like night and day.

So, if you could simply revert your closing of the discussion and allow me to insert the short paragraph that I prepared in response to Jon's argument, then that would progress the discussion much faster than your advice to take this to the dispute resolution board. You will hopefully note that each time I had made an edit to the discussion, I pinged Jon on his talk page to let him know.

I'm here, ready to contribute from now on every day, and not be distracted by other factors as I had before.

Simply wishing to expedite the editing process, and not get bogged down in the slow bureaucracy here.

To end, If you're reading this before or after the new year, and I won't catch you until afterward, then I wish you and yours the very best for the new year.

92.251.172.194 (talk) 18:46, 29 December 2014 (UTC)