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Revision as of 17:40, 12 January 2015 editKoshVorlon (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users16,029 edits →AfD closures by IP users← Previous edit Revision as of 17:54, 12 January 2015 edit undoHJ Mitchell (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Autopatrolled, Checkusers, Oversighters, Administrators121,798 edits →Proposal to streamline community sanctions enforcement: replies x3Next edit →
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Since this board is where ] are enacted and the venue for appeals of admin actions made under the general sanctions, this seems like a better place than a village pump for this proposal. Since this board is where ] are enacted and the venue for appeals of admin actions made under the general sanctions, this seems like a better place than a village pump for this proposal.


Currently, discussions concerning enforcement of community sanctions take place over various different venues. GamerGate, for example, has ], whereas various others don't seem to have one at all and a re presumably discussed here or at ANI. I propose we follow the example of ], which handles enforcement of all arbitration remedies (including discretionary sanctions), and create a central noticeboard to which misconduct can be reported and where uninvolved admins can discuss whether sanctionable misconduct has occurred and, if so, what sanctions to impose. The advantage of a central noticeboard is that it's likely to attract more admins, it's more prominent (and thus more transparent), it reduces the bureaucratic overhead of having to monitor multiple pages, it takes some traffic away from ANI (and into the hands of admins who are experienced and interested in sanctions enforcement), and it's clear where enforcement requests need to go. It also means that you're likely to get input from a wider group of admins, which mitigates against claims from tendentious editors that the process for any one topic area is invalid because it's dominated by admins who regularly admin in that topic area. Currently, discussions concerning enforcement of community sanctions take place over various different venues. GamerGate, for example, has ], whereas various others don't seem to have one at all and are presumably discussed here or at ANI. I propose we follow the example of ], which handles enforcement of all arbitration remedies (including discretionary sanctions), and create a central noticeboard to which misconduct can be reported and where uninvolved admins can discuss whether sanctionable misconduct has occurred and, if so, what sanctions to impose. The advantage of a central noticeboard is that it's likely to attract more admins, it's more prominent (and thus more transparent), it reduces the bureaucratic overhead of having to monitor multiple pages, it takes some traffic away from ANI (and into the hands of admins who are experienced and interested in sanctions enforcement), and it's clear where enforcement requests need to go. It also means that you're likely to get input from a wider group of admins, which mitigates against claims from tendentious editors that the process for any one topic area is invalid because it's dominated by admins who regularly admin in that topic area.


Eventually, if desired, it could be used to report violations of things like community-imposed topic bans, but I suggest we allow it to get off the ground before widening its remit. Thoughts? Comments? ] | ] 20:30, 10 January 2015 (UTC) Eventually, if desired, it could be used to report violations of things like community-imposed topic bans, but I suggest we allow it to get off the ground before widening its remit. Thoughts? Comments? ] | ] 20:30, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
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:::::::::I think perhaps the point of having *non-arbcom* sanctions is missed in this proposal. The community can certainly act independently from Arbcom, and should not have its ability to address issues withdrawn. In many cases, community sanctions have been applied in situations where Arbcom has refused to act; it makes no sense at all that Arbcom should then have sole control over the very sanctions it determined it should not apply in the first place. It perhaps might be better to think of it as different types and levels of sanctions which can be applied by different people, as part of a hierarchy of sanctions. ] (]) 05:32, 11 January 2015 (UTC) :::::::::I think perhaps the point of having *non-arbcom* sanctions is missed in this proposal. The community can certainly act independently from Arbcom, and should not have its ability to address issues withdrawn. In many cases, community sanctions have been applied in situations where Arbcom has refused to act; it makes no sense at all that Arbcom should then have sole control over the very sanctions it determined it should not apply in the first place. It perhaps might be better to think of it as different types and levels of sanctions which can be applied by different people, as part of a hierarchy of sanctions. ] (]) 05:32, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
:::Quoting parts of the proposal: ''...uninvolved admins ... more admins takes some traffic away from ANI (and into the hands of admins ... input from a wider group of admins, which mitigates against claims from tendentious editors ...'' Not why sure it "would go without saying" this isn't an attempt to restrict discussion to the subset of editors who have passed an Rfa. <small>]</small> 22:40, 11 January 2015 (UTC) :::Quoting parts of the proposal: ''...uninvolved admins ... more admins takes some traffic away from ANI (and into the hands of admins ... input from a wider group of admins, which mitigates against claims from tendentious editors ...'' Not why sure it "would go without saying" this isn't an attempt to restrict discussion to the subset of editors who have passed an Rfa. <small>]</small> 22:40, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
::::Please go and wikilawyer elsewhere. OR better still, ] instead of derailing noticeboard threads with nonsense. ] &#124; ] 17:53, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
*'''oppose''' I'd prefer to see these discussions continue at ANI/AN personally. I think a wider cross section of the community should be involved than shows up at AE or would be likely to show up at a new noticeboard. I don't feel ANI or AN are overwhelmed and I think the wider range of contributions here is largely (though certainly not entirely) a feature, not a bug. ] (]) 20:50, 11 January 2015 (UTC) *'''oppose''' I'd prefer to see these discussions continue at ANI/AN personally. I think a wider cross section of the community should be involved than shows up at AE or would be likely to show up at a new noticeboard. I don't feel ANI or AN are overwhelmed and I think the wider range of contributions here is largely (though certainly not entirely) a feature, not a bug. ] (]) 20:50, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
::The problem is not having a "wider range of contributions", but the nature of threaded discussion, which is often not conducive to dispute resolution. That's why AE works, and it is also why pages like ] work. AN/I doesn't allow for the regulation that AE does. ] — ] 21:37, 11 January 2015 (UTC) ::The problem is not having a "wider range of contributions", but the nature of threaded discussion, which is often not conducive to dispute resolution. That's why AE works, and it is also why pages like ] work. AN/I doesn't allow for the regulation that AE does. ] — ] 21:37, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
:::The point I'm making is even if the AN/ANI discussions would be well served by more regulation (something I'm not certain of by any means), the likely loss of contributors would be problematic. I view that as a problem at AE already (the very small number of admins who work that). At AE it can't get too "fiefdom-ish" because ArbCom has the final say. With the community sanctions, that's less clear. Given that these are community sanctions, they should be discussed by the same community that is creating those sanctions. And as wide a community as possible IMO. ] (]) 21:57, 11 January 2015 (UTC) :::The point I'm making is even if the AN/ANI discussions would be well served by more regulation (something I'm not certain of by any means), the likely loss of contributors would be problematic. I view that as a problem at AE already (the very small number of admins who work that). At AE it can't get too "fiefdom-ish" because ArbCom has the final say. With the community sanctions, that's less clear. Given that these are community sanctions, they should be discussed by the same community that is creating those sanctions. And as wide a community as possible IMO. ] (]) 21:57, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
::::These things ''aren't'' generally discussed at AN/ANI—some are (in my experience usually because a conduct issue is brought to ANI and somebody points out the existence of the general sanctions) but others, if they're discussed at all, are discussed on obscure subpages like ]. I'm proposing that we have a simpler, consistent process. ] &#124; ] 17:53, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
*'''Oppose - continue with the current scheme is best'''. I cannot see the point in making these changes - I cannot see any advantages in the changes. Contributing needs to be open to the community, as now, so that the watchers may also be watched.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">] ]</span> 21:50, 11 January 2015 (UTC) *'''Oppose - continue with the current scheme is best'''. I cannot see the point in making these changes - I cannot see any advantages in the changes. Contributing needs to be open to the community, as now, so that the watchers may also be watched.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">] ]</span> 21:50, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
**There ... ''isn't'' a "current scheme", hence this proposal. ] &#124; ] 17:53, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
*'''Support''', for what it's worth. The proposal is to take action that would predictably improve the breadth of community attention to community enforcement requests. I don't see any disadvantage to this. At the very least it would give all community sanctions operations, across the whole encyclopaedia, a single. A single page to watchlist. I think mixing it up with ] would be a mistake. Arbitration generates a legalistic protocol, but community sanctions don't (or shouldn't) have the same baggage. --] 02:35, 12 January 2015 (UTC) *'''Support''', for what it's worth. The proposal is to take action that would predictably improve the breadth of community attention to community enforcement requests. I don't see any disadvantage to this. At the very least it would give all community sanctions operations, across the whole encyclopaedia, a single. A single page to watchlist. I think mixing it up with ] would be a mistake. Arbitration generates a legalistic protocol, but community sanctions don't (or shouldn't) have the same baggage. --] 02:35, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
*'''Support''' Discussions that result in sanctions on AN/ANI often end up in a shit fight, not to put it too finely. A DS/CS/GS board should be made as a subpage to AN, much like ANI is and any open discussions/cases should be announced possibly by, but not limited to *'''Support''' Discussions that result in sanctions on AN/ANI often end up in a shit fight, not to put it too finely. A DS/CS/GS board should be made as a subpage to AN, much like ANI is and any open discussions/cases should be announced possibly by, but not limited to

Revision as of 17:54, 12 January 2015

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      (Initiated 222 days ago on 15 May 2024) Discussion died down quite a long time ago. I do not believe anything is actionable but a formal closure will help. Soni (talk) 04:19, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

      Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/In the news criteria amendments

      (Initiated 77 days ago on 7 October 2024) Tough one, died down, will expire tomorrow. Aaron Liu (talk) 23:58, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

      Talk:Turkey#RfC_on_massacres_and_genocides_in_the_lead

      (Initiated 76 days ago on 8 October 2024) Expired tag, no new comments in more than a week. KhndzorUtogh (talk) 21:48, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

      information Note: This is a contentious topic and subject to general sanctions. Also see: Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard topic. Bogazicili (talk) 17:26, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
      information Note: Not sure if anyone is looking into this, but might be a good idea to wait for a few weeks since there is ongoing discussion. Bogazicili (talk) 16:33, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

      Wikipedia_talk:Talk_page_guidelines#Request_for_comment:_Do_the_guidelines_in_WP:TPO_also_apply_to_archived_talk_pages?

      (Initiated 68 days ago on 16 October 2024) Discussion seems to have petered out a month ago. Consensus seems unclear. Gnomingstuff (talk) 02:34, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

      information Note: Needs admin closure imho, due to its importance (guideline page), length (101kb), and questions about neutrality of the Rfc question and what it meant. Mathglot (talk) 21:28, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
      And in true Streisand effect fashion, this discussion, quiescent for six weeks, has some more responses again. Mathglot (talk) 01:30, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

      Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 459#RFC_Jerusalem_Post

      (Initiated 57 days ago on 28 October 2024) Participation/discussion has mostly stopped & is unlikely to pick back up again. - Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 21:15, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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      Archived. P.I. Ellsworth , ed.  22:26, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

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      (Initiated 44 days ago on 10 November 2024) Discussion is slowing significantly. Likely no consensus, personally. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 03:09, 2 December 2024 (UTC)

      Option 2 was very clearly rejected. The closer should try to see what specific principles people in the discussion agreed upon if going with a no consensus close, because there should be a follow-up RfC after some of the details are hammered out. Chess (talk) (please mention me on reply) 03:10, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
       Doing... —Compassionate727  13:43, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
      @Compassionate727: Still working on this? — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 17:18, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
      Ugh… in practice, no. I'm still willing to do it, but it's in hiatus because of the three(!) pending challenges of my closures at AN, while I evaluate to what extent I need to change how I approach closures. If somebody else wants to take over this, they should feel free. —Compassionate727  22:16, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
      Taking a pause is fair. Just wanted to double check. — Red-tailed hawk (nest) 00:52, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
      asking for an update if possible. I think this RFC and previous RFCBEFORE convos were several TOMATS long at this point, so I get that this might take time. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 16:34, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

      Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_comment#RFC_on_signing_RFCs

      (Initiated 40 days ago on 13 November 2024) - probably gonna stay status quo, but would like a closure to point to Bluethricecreamman (talk) 06:14, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

      Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#RfC: Check Your Fact

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      Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers#RfC Indian numbering conventions

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      (Initiated 15 days ago on 8 December 2024) No further participation in the last 7 days. Consensus is clear but I am the opener of the RfC and am not comfortable closing something I am so closely involved in, so would like somebody uninvolved to close it if they believe it to be appropriate.RachelTensions (talk) 16:00, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

      I'm not comfortable closing a discussion on a guideline change this early. In any case, if the discussion continues as it has been, a formal closure won't be necessary. —Compassionate727  13:00, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

      Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Articles for creation#RfC: Should a bot be created to handle AfC submissions that haven't changed since the last time they were submitted?

      (Initiated 38 days ago on 15 November 2024) This RfC expired five days ago, has an unclear consensus, I am involved, and discussion has died down. JJPMaster (she/they) 22:56, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

      Talk:Len_Blavatnik#RfC:_NPOV_in_the_lead

      (Initiated 7 days ago on 16 December 2024) RFC is only 5 days old as of time of this posting, but overwhelming consensus approves of status quo, except for a single COI editor. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 21:04, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

      The CoI editor has now accepted that consensus is for the status quo, but I think a formal close from an uninvolved editor, summarizing the consensus would be helpful, since the issue has been coming up for a while and many editors were involved. — penultimate_supper 🚀 16:35, 23 December 2024 (UTC)
      yes, despite multiple posts to WP:BLPN, WP:NPOVN, WP:3O, several talk page discussions, and now an RFC, I doubt the pressure to remove word oligarch from the lede of that page will stop. An appropriate close could be a useful thing to point at in the future though. Bluethricecreamman (talk) 16:40, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

      Template talk:Infobox country#Request for comment on greenhouse emissions

      (Initiated 88 days ago on 27 September 2024) Lots of considered debate with good points made. See the nom's closing statement. Kowal2701 (talk) 09:47, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

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      Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/List of songs recorded by Mohammed Rafi (A)

      Please review this discussion. --Jax 0677 (talk) 17:29, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

      The discussion has now been relisted thrice. --Jax 0677 (talk) 00:42, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

      Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 December 16#Category:Origin stories

      (Initiated 22 days ago on 2 December 2024) HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 03:45, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

       Done —Compassionate727  15:37, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

      Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 December 14#Template:Support-group-stub

      (Initiated 10 days ago on 14 December 2024) HouseBlaster (talk • he/they) 05:06, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

       Done —Compassionate727  15:17, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

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      (Initiated 90 days ago on 25 September 2024) Open for a while, requesting uninvolved closure. Andre🚐 22:15, 20 December 2024 (UTC)

      Talk:LGBT history in Georgia#Proposed merge of LGBT rights in Georgia into LGBT history in Georgia

      (Initiated 78 days ago on 7 October 2024) A merge + move request with RM banners that needs closure. No new comments in 20 days. —CX Zoom 20:16, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

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      (Initiated 69 days ago on 16 October 2024) Experienced closer requested. ―Mandruss ☎ 13:57, 27 November 2024 (UTC)

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      Talk:Williamsburg Bray School#Splitting proposal

      (Initiated 27 days ago on 27 November 2024) Only two editors—the nominator and myself—have participated. That was two weeks ago. Just needs an uninvolved third party for closure. ~ Pbritti (talk) 18:37, 13 December 2024 (UTC)

       Doing... BusterD (talk) 20:28, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

      Talk:Winter fuel payment abolition backlash#Merge proposal

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      Speedy deletion of Adam (band)

      Moved to Misplaced Pages:Village pump (miscellaneous)#Speedy deletion of Adam (band)

      Self-admitted sock puppet accounts

      OK, this perhaps does need admin attention. According to their home page, 750editsstrong, this is a sock puppet account, one of three run by this individual listed above. There's a link to WP:VALIDALT but I don't see a valid criteria there for these accounts. And although I can see no evidence of actually socking, e.g. using two accounts to look like two people in the same discussion/at the same venue, given this user's pointy shouty behaviour it does perhaps warrant further investigation.--JohnBlackburnedeeds 00:52, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
      They didn't use any of the accounts concurrently (though there is 4 minutes between the first edit of 750 and the last edit of Wikia), so while it may not fall under WP:VALIDALT, it doesn't fall afoul of WP:ILLEGIT either, especially because they're disclosed. HOWEVER, since they claim in their RfC thingy that they've edited for 12 years, there's probably a separate, undisclosed master account - and given how they've gone about here I wouldn't be surprised if that account had issues. ansh666 02:02, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
      A checkuser may come in handy, especially if the master account is blocked. However, we should not WP:BITE, even to an older user, until violations are confirmed. I will be keeping an eye on them. -- Orduin 02:11, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

      The editor refers to Misplaced Pages:Newbie treatment at Criteria for speedy deletion, and evidently thinks of himself or herself as doing a one-person re-run of the experiment. There was an enormous amount of criticism of the experiment, and a clear consensus emerged that the project was a mistake, with many editors thinking it amounted to disrupting Misplaced Pages to prove a point. To ignore that consensus, and unilaterally do a re-run is unacceptable, and I have told the editor so. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 14:54, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

      Found two more self declared: Rumpsenate2 and Rumpsenate. They could be incorrect, i.e. claimed but not true, except there's also overlapping contributions and the fact there are two suggests the user is already familiar with running multiple accounts.--JohnBlackburnedeeds 06:09, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
      Hmm, looking at that history, they have had problems with page deletion conspiracy and such, so likely the same editor. For fun, I added up all the edits and it's only ~500, so either there are more or that last username was an exaggeration. In any case, I've nominated the article that started it all, Adam (band), for deletion: Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Adam (band). ansh666 20:39, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

      Proposing community ban for Okip

      Okip (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

      Even though I'm pretty sure that this section as well as a now-removed SPI report was started by the editor themselves under a new sock (User:We all kip), it's a good suggestion. Coren did the last CU on Okip back in 2012, and Mark Arsten made the last block on User:Okip, but unfortunately both aren't really active anymore. Pinging Future Perfect at Sunrise, who blocked the poster, for their opinion. ansh666 06:30, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

      2015 shooting at Charlie Hebdo

      I created an edit notice for the 2015 shooting at Charlie Hebdo page by using {{blp}}. The problem is that the edit notice states that the template is misplaced and belongs on the talk page. I specifically wanted editors to be reminded that the need to conform to BLP when the opened up the edit window. BLPO also applies, but that is a lesser concern. Does anyone have any ideas of a better way to achieve this aim? Mjroots (talk) 13:23, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

      @Mjroots: would {{BLP editintro}} do the trick? --Mdann52talk to me! 13:33, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
      (edit conflict) I've changed it to {{BLP editintro}}. -- KTC (talk) 13:33, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
      Someone has arbitrarily and without discussion changed the article title, breaking the link from ITN on the Main Page. Admin help is urgently needed to fix this. Please see Talk:Charlie Hebdo massacre#Article title. Prioryman (talk) 14:05, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
      This was done at 14:08 . –xeno 14:41, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
      Thanks all, I'll remember that one. Mjroots (talk) 15:48, 7 January 2015 (UTC)
      Can an admin take a look at this. I think a snow close is in order. Lugnuts 13:15, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
      Doesn't look like it, when disregarding all of the votes that aren't based in policy (which is about 2/3 of them, on quick glance?). ansh666 06:33, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
      Shame no one has the balls to step up then. Oh well. Lugnuts 10:26, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

      User:Composemi

      User blocked for 48hrs for copyvios by RHaworth. Should their behaviour continue, please bring it up here again. Blackmane (talk) 03:22, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

      The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

      This user has uploaded copyrighted images of Maithripala Sirisena six times in one month despite warning on his talk page.--obi2canibe 19:06, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

      I have left a note on his talk page and will watch -- Diannaa (talk) 20:12, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
      The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

      Amend unblock restrictions effective Jan 2014

      I would like to request that my unblock restrictions be amended. I am currently limited to uploading files through the Files for upload process, however would like this restored/lifted. The original conditions imposed through my unblock appeal can be viewed here here. I was advised to use this process by Bidgee. The person who originally granted my unblock in January 2014 was Yunshui. Ashton 29 (talk) 11:23, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

      • Support lifting the restriction. Ashton 29 has only had one image (out of a great many) declined due to a copyvio in the last six months, and that one (Flickr entry) was due to a good-faith misunderstanding that even an experienced user could have easily made. I am satisfied that Ashton 29 now has a sufficient understanding of image copyright to be allowed to upload files directly. Yunshui 水 11:39, 9 January 2015 (UTC) Clarification: this applies only to the use of the FFU process, I offer no opinion regarding the other two restrictions. Yunshui 水 11:41, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
      • Support - perhaps with a specific and strongly worded talk page warning that any resumption of problematic uploading will still result in a re-block and that the other conditions of the editor's unblock still apply. It seems this was exactly what Yunshui had in mind when interpreting the original AN discussion consensus so unless something significant has changed, that consensus should be reflected. St★lwart 00:34, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

      An open challenge to Mr Jimmy Wales

      Spamming multiple forums like this only ever has one result. Blocked. Black Kite (talk) 16:01, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

      Hey . If I show without a doubt that it is notable, will you step down....or stop editing for 1 month? 750editsstrong (talk) 11:38, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

      ==Deletions_and_editor_retention==

      Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/Deletions_and_editor_retention

      If deleted see this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Thewhitebox#RFC

      Thewhitebox (talk) 17:02, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

      Full text:

      Studies show, editing on wikipedia is stagnating. I have been an editor off and on wikipedia for 12 years. Misplaced Pages has become less and less welcoming for new editors because of more and more deletion and speed deletion rules. There is a very negative company culture about new edits here on wikipedia. Editors who encourage deletion of good faith edits are rewarded, editors who fight against this trend are banned or leave in frustration.

      1. I remember when established editors posed as new editors, and almost everyone of their new pages were deleted. The larger community was infuriated, not by how new editors were shown to be treated, but that established editors would pose as new editors. I know there is a 80% chance that my article will be deleted within one hour of it being created. If I have no references, it is within 5 minutes.
      2. I remember how Jimmy Wales blessed the wide spread deletion of hundreds of bibliography articles with no notice, writing on the editors talk page what a wonderful job he did.
      3. I remember the secret offline collusion in the case - twenty or so editors were working together to disrupt wikipeda and get tens of thousands of articles deleted. Any other time the editors would be banned, but instead any editors who mentioned the case were warned.
      4. I remember the dozens of articles from mainstream media that complained how an incredibly notable article was deleted often within 5 minutes.
      5. I remember the episode wars over television shows. In which editors wanted to delete thousands of pages on all television series.
      6. I remember how I quit uploading non-copyrighted images from the 1890s because they were always deleted in mass, even when I put the right tags on them.
      7. I have been appalled at many of the really mean editors who have become administrators and the arbcoms. The arbcoms get Jimmy's blessing.
      8. I have been disgusted at how established editors treat other new editors, describing their new article monitoring as "garbage men" stopping "garbage"
      9. I am shocked that every time I see an old editors page from 2006 or before, who really fought for treating editors nicely, he has been banned or left in disgust. Every time.
      10. There is a new trend the last couple of years. I am appalled at extremely ignorant editors deleting whole sections of articles citing copyright violations. They have absolutely no understanding of copyright. Fair use is ignored and deletion is emphasized.

      Editors, especially new editors, are consistently treated like shit here by a like minded group of editors.

      Sadly I see only one solution

      I have come to one sad conclusion: That Jimmy Wales, the founder of this site, is the person most responsible for this trend. He is most responsbile for this site's negative company culture. I believe that it is in the best interest of the long term future of Misplaced Pages that Jimmy Wales step down. I beleive wikipedia needs a new company culture that is more inclusive and kind.

      If you have a better idea how to change this trend, something that has never been tried before, I would love to hear it.

      Thoughts?

      		Studies that show why Misplaced Pages editing is stagnating
      The singularity is not near: slowing growth of Misplaced Pages
      The rate of reverts-per-edits (or new contributions rejected) and the number of pages protected has kept increasing.

      The greater resistance towards new content has made it more costly for editors, especially occasional editors, to make contribution. We argue that this may have contributed, with other factors, to the slowdown in the growth of Misplaced Pages.

      The Rise and Decline of an Open Collaboration System: How Misplaced Pages’s Reaction to Popularity Is Causing Its Decline University of Minnesota research finds the restrictiveness of the encyclopedia’s primary quality control mechanism against contributions made by newcomers and the algorithmic tools commonly used to reject contributions as key causes of the decrease in newcomer retention. The community’s formal mechanisms to create uniform entries are also shown to have fortified its entries against changes—especially when those changes are proposed by newer editors. As a result, Misplaced Pages is having greater difficulty in retaining new volunteer editors.

      "Misplaced Pages has changed from the encyclopedia that anyone can edit to the encyclopedia that anyone who understands the norms, socializes himself or herself, dodges the impersonal wall of semi-automated rejection, and still wants to voluntarily contribute his or her time and energy can edit"

      Again, If I show without a doubt that it is notable, will you step down....or stop editing for 1 month? 750editsstrong (talk) 11:38, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

      Adam is a Dutch band most well known for their viral video, "Go to Go" in which the band members have orgasms while singing.

      "Go to Go" Video

      This section contains close paraphrasing of non-free copyrighted sources. Relevant discussion may be found on the talk page. Please help Misplaced Pages by rewriting this section with your own words. (January 2015) (Learn how and when to remove this message)

      In the video "Go to Go", three of the five Adam band members have orgasms while singing the song. They are shown staring into the camera, singing and trying to get through their lines as they use a vibrator off screen. As the song progresses they have increasingly more difficulty in trying to remember their lines as they build to a musical climax. They struggle to finish the song, giggling and eventually become speechless.

      See #Speedy deletion of Adam (band) for earlier thread. I don't know if someone wants to merge that with this.--JohnBlackburnedeeds 11:46, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
      I think just let it stand and possibly put a note on that one referring to this one. I don't see Jimbo much in articlespace so perhaps the OP will consider himself satisfied and go troll Yahoo! News.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:25, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
      Is it time for some RBI and Deny? Blackmane (talk) 15:57, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

      References

      1. David Harding, VIDEO: Female Dutch band shown having orgasms while singing, New York Daily News, (May 10, 2014).

      Black Kite -- Since he has two other socks, shouldn't they be blocked too ? KoshVorlon Rassekali ternii i mlechnye puti 18:19, 11 January 2015 (UTC)


      Requesting additional eyes in proposed merger in a controversial corporate topic

      There is currently a discussion at Talk:Landmark Worldwide#Proposed merger with Werner Erhard and Associates and Erhard Seminars Training regarding merging articles of three organizations which are all related in some way to Werner Erhard and his original Erhard Seminars Training. The topic itself has recently been the subject of an arbitration case in which the arbitrators asked for more editors to be involved as seen at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Landmark Worldwide#Additional eyes invited. Any input, particularly regarding how wikipedia handles similar cases of organizations which may have or have had similar relationships, would be more than welcome, as would any other input in general. John Carter (talk) 15:29, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

      Notice of discussion

      There is an ongoing discussion at the policy village pump, which I initiated almost a week ago now. It pertains to the banning policy, specifically the extent to which ban evasion can be tolerated. Anyone is welcome to participate. Kurtis 18:00, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

      Proposal to streamline community sanctions enforcement

      Since this board is where community-authorised general sanctions are enacted and the venue for appeals of admin actions made under the general sanctions, this seems like a better place than a village pump for this proposal.

      Currently, discussions concerning enforcement of community sanctions take place over various different venues. GamerGate, for example, has its own enforcement noticeboard, whereas various others don't seem to have one at all and are presumably discussed here or at ANI. I propose we follow the example of WP:AE, which handles enforcement of all arbitration remedies (including discretionary sanctions), and create a central noticeboard to which misconduct can be reported and where uninvolved admins can discuss whether sanctionable misconduct has occurred and, if so, what sanctions to impose. The advantage of a central noticeboard is that it's likely to attract more admins, it's more prominent (and thus more transparent), it reduces the bureaucratic overhead of having to monitor multiple pages, it takes some traffic away from ANI (and into the hands of admins who are experienced and interested in sanctions enforcement), and it's clear where enforcement requests need to go. It also means that you're likely to get input from a wider group of admins, which mitigates against claims from tendentious editors that the process for any one topic area is invalid because it's dominated by admins who regularly admin in that topic area.

      Eventually, if desired, it could be used to report violations of things like community-imposed topic bans, but I suggest we allow it to get off the ground before widening its remit. Thoughts? Comments? HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:30, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

      A centralized GS board would be fine, but per existing AN / ANI policy, participation should be open to all editors. NE Ent 20:51, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
      I would have thought that goes without saying. Comment by non-admins is welcome at AE, as long as the comments are on-topic and constructive (which is about the same as AN/ANI except that it's actually enforced). HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:59, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
      Its enforced because its practically a personal fiefdom of a few admins. Generally the more noticeboards and distribution of tasks there are, the less likely you are to get 'more' involvement. Suspect this would just end up as another rug to hide things under/playground for admins. Only in death does duty end (talk) 21:51, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
      Nonsense. AE has 1,139 watchers; the GamerGate enforcement page 74. I know which process I'd use if I wanted to force something through on the sly (hint: I'd pick the one that was less watched than my talk page). And it's enforced because we don't allow people to hijack discussions with off-topic remarks like that. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:31, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
      Why not simply merge the community-sanction processes into AE itself? We wouldn't be concerned about the formalities about "whose turf" that is, Arbcom's or the "community"'s, would we? Fut.Perf. ☼ 22:44, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
      There are many reasons why we cannot merge the processes. I recommend that you fellows take a look at a proposal made by Arbitration Committee clerk Callanecc: WP:CDS. This is the perfect time to implement it. It proposes to standardise the system of community discretionary sanctions, which already exists, but which is run on an ad hoc basis. RGloucester — ☎ 22:46, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
      Can you elaborate a bit on those "many reasons"? Fut.Perf. ☼ 22:59, 10 January 2015 (UTC)
      Just noting first that I'm not working on community discretionary sanctions as a clerk. It does have to do with whose jurisdiction it's under, there are different processes and procedures which apply to arbitration enforcement and community sanctions no matter how close we try to make them. For one, having two different procedures for how they are enforced and appealed (see both provisions at Template:Arbitration standard provisions) and the haphazard community version of primarily completely admin discretion for both enforcement and appeals will cause confusion. Secondly actions by admins doing arbitration enforcement cannot be lessened as ArbCom has the authority to protected them and has before whereas admin actions enforcing community sanctions are protected by an understanding, so there are two different processes operating there as well. I can definitely see arguments in favour of merging the process, though it would need both the community's and committee's okay, since WP:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement is in their domain and mentioned in their procedures which would need to be changed (which can't be done without a motion). Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 02:46, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
      I think perhaps the point of having *non-arbcom* sanctions is missed in this proposal. The community can certainly act independently from Arbcom, and should not have its ability to address issues withdrawn. In many cases, community sanctions have been applied in situations where Arbcom has refused to act; it makes no sense at all that Arbcom should then have sole control over the very sanctions it determined it should not apply in the first place. It perhaps might be better to think of it as different types and levels of sanctions which can be applied by different people, as part of a hierarchy of sanctions. Risker (talk) 05:32, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
      Quoting parts of the proposal: ...uninvolved admins ... more admins takes some traffic away from ANI (and into the hands of admins ... input from a wider group of admins, which mitigates against claims from tendentious editors ... Not why sure it "would go without saying" this isn't an attempt to restrict discussion to the subset of editors who have passed an Rfa. NE Ent 22:40, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
      Please go and wikilawyer elsewhere. OR better still, go and write an article instead of derailing noticeboard threads with nonsense. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:53, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
      • oppose I'd prefer to see these discussions continue at ANI/AN personally. I think a wider cross section of the community should be involved than shows up at AE or would be likely to show up at a new noticeboard. I don't feel ANI or AN are overwhelmed and I think the wider range of contributions here is largely (though certainly not entirely) a feature, not a bug. Hobit (talk) 20:50, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
      The problem is not having a "wider range of contributions", but the nature of threaded discussion, which is often not conducive to dispute resolution. That's why AE works, and it is also why pages like WP:GGE work. AN/I doesn't allow for the regulation that AE does. RGloucester — ☎ 21:37, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
      The point I'm making is even if the AN/ANI discussions would be well served by more regulation (something I'm not certain of by any means), the likely loss of contributors would be problematic. I view that as a problem at AE already (the very small number of admins who work that). At AE it can't get too "fiefdom-ish" because ArbCom has the final say. With the community sanctions, that's less clear. Given that these are community sanctions, they should be discussed by the same community that is creating those sanctions. And as wide a community as possible IMO. Hobit (talk) 21:57, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
      These things aren't generally discussed at AN/ANI—some are (in my experience usually because a conduct issue is brought to ANI and somebody points out the existence of the general sanctions) but others, if they're discussed at all, are discussed on obscure subpages like WP:GS/GG/E. I'm proposing that we have a simpler, consistent process. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:53, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
      • Oppose - continue with the current scheme is best. I cannot see the point in making these changes - I cannot see any advantages in the changes. Contributing needs to be open to the community, as now, so that the watchers may also be watched.-- Toddy1 (talk) 21:50, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
      • Support, for what it's worth. The proposal is to take action that would predictably improve the breadth of community attention to community enforcement requests. I don't see any disadvantage to this. At the very least it would give all community sanctions operations, across the whole encyclopaedia, a single. A single page to watchlist. I think mixing it up with WP:AE would be a mistake. Arbitration generates a legalistic protocol, but community sanctions don't (or shouldn't) have the same baggage. --TS 02:35, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
      • Support Discussions that result in sanctions on AN/ANI often end up in a shit fight, not to put it too finely. A DS/CS/GS board should be made as a subpage to AN, much like ANI is and any open discussions/cases should be announced possibly by, but not limited to
      1. having a transclusion much like the requests for closure (although that could become quite messy as the open requests attests)
      2. having an infobox listing open discussions/cases, much like the existing WP:CENT/WP:VP one, or perhaps resurrecting the old RFC/U type one.
      3. requiring that an announcement, much like the one Arbcom uses when they announce the end of a case or an amendment.
      Basically, anything that brings in community engagement in a structured manner would be good. In a way, one could liken this to RFC/U but with sharper teeth. Blackmane (talk) 04:21, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
      • Support – I certainly support the proposal for a centralised CDS enforcement page. I too would like a merged ACDS/CDS enforcement page, but that might be more work than it is worth. I strongly support the WP:CDS proposal. We've already got community discretionary sanctions. This proposal does not change anything, in that regard, other than that it takes the present ad hoc process of running a community sanctions regime and codifies it in a way that will make everything easier. Structure is what we need. It has worked well for Gamergate, and it will work well for other CDS areas as well. RGloucester — ☎ 16:52, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

      UAA backlogged

      Just a poke, whoever can help. Thanx, Mlpearc (open channel) 06:04, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

      Closure Review Request at Talk: Ayurveda#Objection to improper closure

      An editor disagrees with my closure of a Request for Comments at Talk:Ayurveda#Objection to improper closure. This noticeboard, rather than the talk page, is the proper forum for review of the closure. Also, admin attention to the talk page is requested, because a few of the comments are getting close to personal attacks. Robert McClenon (talk) 15:31, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

      • Support closure No expert, no common/quality commenter on Alternative medicine claims any relation between Ayurveda and pseudoscience. Finding expert on Ayurveda who would claim that is even more impossible. Why? Because it is absurd to claim that some medical substance that is highly prevalent since Iron age is pseudoscience. Anyone who still wants to promote this absurd should be topic banned for having very bad understanding of whole medical field. Once you are very wrong it becomes very hard to trust. నిజానికి (talk) 16:12, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

      I see that the strong comment has been withdrawn. It wasn't addressed to McClenon anyway. As far as a closure review goes, it's unnecessary. McClennon can unilaterally undo it. That's the quick and easy way to solve the problem. The obviousness of the lack of real closure should make this a WP:SNOW decision.

      No fault is assumed here. At the time it may have seemed proper, but it is the following discussion which reveals the necessity of undoing the closure. To avoid misunderstanding, I'm going to refactor a couple comments. -- Brangifer (talk) 18:02, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

      I see nothing in the following discussion which 'reveals the necessity' of anything. It does however reveal that some people didn't like the result. And I'm sure that when the RfC is closed again, the same people still won't like it. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:49, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
      • Was this RfC advertised widely or were the participants all generally already involved in the topic? It looks like it was mostly people already involved, and in this case, that might be a pretty big COI. I'd urge a new RfC with a lot more voices. That said, the RfC close was reasonable given the discussion and I (also a non-admin) endorse it though I'd not have closed it that way. (I generally won't close something in a way I disagree with even if that's the consensus to date, I'll either skip past it or participate.) Hobit (talk) 20:44, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
      • Hobit, others had notified on fringe theory noticeboard, listed on at least 3 different RFC subject areas and more. That's why on first 2 days there were many votes. Also when the sanctions of this page were being discussed on ANI and then AN, RFC was still running. Bladesmulti (talk) 23:17, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

      Comment. No matter how many sources presented involved editors will continue to disagree it is pseudoscience. See Talk:Ayurveda#Sources_which_support_characterizing_ayurveda_as_pseudoscience for the sources. Most of the comments in the RfC were made by involved editors. A RfC with only uninvolved editors would be very different. QuackGuru (talk) 03:14, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

      There was no response to my reply regarding that irrelevant laundry list. Only 1 citation that had included as an 'example' in a single sentence and has no scope or clearance. Don't worry because no one agrees with such irrelevance on just any page. Even you had to misinterpret references for making Misplaced Pages:POINT. Also you had explicitly mentioned this RFC on many user talk(pages) while the time it was still on going, about 9 users were clearly uninvolved and 6 of them disagreed with you. Just have a look at any other RFC, even 5 uninvolved votes would be an achievement. Bladesmulti (talk) 03:35, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
      Reliable sources characterizing ayurveda as pseudoscience are not an irrelevant laundry list. QuackGuru (talk) 03:41, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
      Show one? Also show if those so called reliable sources have included even 2 sentences for describing your point or they have even a tiny inch of relevance in traditional medicine. I should also mention that you had forumshopped for this pointed content on Administrator noticeboard. Better to state that you had the best amount of opinions that you wanted. Bladesmulti (talk) 03:45, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
      I already presented evidence it is pseudoscience but you put a hat on it. Hmm. QuackGuru (talk) 03:49, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
      How it was even incorrect to hat article dispute on a administrator noticeboard? Everyone knows how to view it and recognize its irrelevance. Bladesmulti (talk) 03:57, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
      Folks, surely the argument of whether Ayurveda is pseudoscience or not and related evidence is not relevant for this board, is it? All that's relevant here is whether the discussion was closed properly - the content argument itself belongs elsewhere, doesn't it? Squinge (talk) 09:56, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

      AfD closures by IP users

      I see that AfD are being closed by IP users. Policy says that NAC are not encouraged but if they must, they should be closed by editors 'in good standing'. Could someone please refresh my old admin brain and tell me what the exact definition of 'in good standing' is and if it covers IP users. I see an eventual problem however much in good faith, of contacting such users if further discussion with them is required. Many thanks. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:35, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

      Personally, the phrase "in good standing" should be removed as it assumes that there are closers who are not doing so in good faith, which goes against AGF. If there is a disagreement then it can be discussed. If there are problems then AGF can be withdrawn, but all closers should be assumed to be "in good standing". As far as I remember, IP's shouldn't be closing AFD for the reason you've already pointed out. Blackmane (talk) 05:15, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
      I totally agree with Blackmane! KoshVorlon Rassekali ternii i mlechnye puti 11:38, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
      I don't think we should drop "in good standing", as we need to have at least some idea that the user in question knows enough policy to be able to close discussions well, and has the temperament to be able to deal with other editors civilly if the close is disputed. We probably don't want brand new users closing discussions, for example. There's no definition of "in good standing" anywhere as far as I'm aware, but I don't see any problem in using common sense when deciding which users count. For starters, we should be thinking of users who have been here a reasonable amount of time and who aren't under any active sanctions. And if we're talking about whether they're qualified to do non-admin closures, I would exclude users who have a pattern of making bad closures. Since there isn't any way of reliably telling whether an IP user has been around for any length of time, they shouldn't be closing discussions, in my opinion. Also, seeing as there's no guarantee that IP users will be using the same IP as they did to close the discussion, it would be hard for other editors to contest the decision. — Mr. Stradivarius 13:05, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
      A definition of "in good standing" in a slighly different context was discussed at Misplaced Pages:Community de-adminship/Pre RfC Summaries#2. Definition of "editor in good standing". --David Biddulph (talk) 13:44, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
      In that context, "editors in good standing" should probably be replaced by "experienced editors" much like ANI. I'm sure there have been cases where editors in good standing have made bad closes and editors who may have a checkered past who have made good closes. Whether an editor is in good or questionable standing, their experience at AFD is the key. Blackmane (talk) 14:05, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
      • @Kudpung: I am surprised that we do not already have an express prohibition on XfD discussion closures by IP users. I believe that there are multiple problems and inconsistencies with permitting such closures, but I would like to review actual examples before commenting further. Could you please provide examples of recent AfD (or other XfD) closures by IP users? Thanks, Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:16, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
      @Kudpung: I just looked and on the AFD page, users in good standing is worded just that way, there is also no specific prohibition with IP users closing AFD's either (save the normal prohibition that governs all NAC's. While your (Kudpung) question appears good faith, I'd suggest closing it, because of the implication that being an IP user somehow disqualifies a user from being in good standing. (That and we have users that display userboxes like this and have similar sentiments on their pages like this ). I understand the concern, IP address could be a vandal or someone evading their block, and yes it's true, it could be, but we have checks and balances for that kind of thing. Just evaluate the close for it's rationale , not wether the user is an IP user or not. KoshVorlon Rassekali ternii i mlechnye puti 17:40, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

      Featured Picture for 12 January

      Resolved

      I just saw a report at Main Page/Errors and I have to go to work like right now - Template:POTD/2015-01-12 exists but the protected version was apparently not created and we have yesterday's FP still on the Main Page. Yngvadottir (talk) 06:16, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

      Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Acupuncture case request closed by motion

      The Arbitration Committee has closed a case request by motion with the following remedy being enacted:

      In lieu of a full case, the Arbitration Committee authorises standard discretionary sanctions for any edit about, and for all pages relating to Complementary and Alternative Medicine. Any sanctions that may be imposed should be logged at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Acupuncture. The Committee urges interested editors to pursue alternative means of dispute resolution such as RFC's or requests for mediation on the underlying issues. If necessary, further requests concerning this matter should be filed at the requests for clarification and amendment page.

      For the Arbitration Committee, Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 11:18, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

      Discuss this
      Categories: