Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 05:25, 16 January 2015 editCallanecc (talk \| contribs)Edit filter managers, Checkusers, Oversighters, Administrators72,939 edits →Draft motion for establishing a central DS log: new section← Previous edit		Revision as of 06:22, 16 January 2015 edit undoDominus Vobisdu (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users8,436 edits →Statement by (username)Next edit →
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	This seems like editors that didn't like the previous result trying to take two bites at the apple, but JzG could certainly tone it down a bit, while still holding the line against the quackery. ] (]) 02:37, 16 January 2015 (UTC)		This seems like editors that didn't like the previous result trying to take two bites at the apple, but JzG could certainly tone it down a bit, while still holding the line against the quackery. ] (]) 02:37, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

			====Statement by Dominus Vobisdu====

			There is a ] tactic currently being used by several fringe promoters on alternative medicine articles to provoke other editors into reacting and then calling them out for being uncivil. This complaint is a good example of trying to eliminate opposition to fringe promotion. I myself stopped editing altogether for several months because of my disgust at this phenomenon. I believe that boomerang applies, and that the OP should be topic banned from all articles related to medicine, including alternative medicine and related topics, broadly construed. This has become such a serious problem that alternative medicine articles are now covered by discretionary sanctions because fringe promoters tried to evade discretionary sanctions related to pseudoscience topics. This particular editor has been tendentious and disruptive, and pushing pro-fringe material backed up by grossly unreliable sources. Civil POV pushing is an apt description of his behavior. ] (]) 06:22, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

	====Statement by (username)====		====Statement by (username)====
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Arthur Rubin

Arthur Rubin topic-banned from gun control. HJ Mitchell \| Penny for your thoughts? 13:42, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning Arthur Rubin User who is submitting this request for enforcement 162.119.231.132 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 16:06, 9 January 2015 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Arthur Rubin (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gun control#Discretionary sanctions : Principles Neutral point of view All Misplaced Pages articles must be written from a neutral point of view, with all relevant points of view represented in reasonable proportion to their importance and relevance to the subject-matter of the article. Undue weight should not be given to aspects that are peripheral to the topic. Original research and synthesized claims are prohibited. Use of a Misplaced Pages article for advocacy or promotion, either in favor of or against an individual, institution, or idea that is the subject of the article, is prohibited. Advocacy Misplaced Pages articles should present a neutral view of their subject. Use of a Misplaced Pages article for advocacy or promotion is prohibited. Battleground conduct Inflammatory accusations often perpetuate disputes, poison the well of existing discussions, and disrupt the editing atmosphere. Discussions should be held with a view toward reaching a solution that can gain a genuine consensus. Attempting to exhaust or drive off editors who disagree through hostile conduct, rather than through legitimate dispute-resolution methods pursued only when legitimately necessary, is destructive to the consensus process and is not acceptable. Making allegations against other editors Claims of misconduct should be made with the goal of resolving the problem, not of impugning another editor's reputation. Recidivism Editors who have already been sanctioned for disruptive behavior may be sanctioned more harshly for repeated instances of similar behaviors. Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 19:42, 8 January 2015 Reverts to non-neutral version which contains unsourced original research 19:32, 8 January 2015 Reverts to non-neutral version which contains unsourced original research 15:35, 3 December 2014 Argues that a term is "pejorative" or "propaganda" based on his belief and insisting that no source is necessary because no one disputes it - that's a violation of all three core content policies: WP:NPOV, WP:V, WP:NOR. 15:31, 2 December 2014 Moves article from "Gun show loophole" to "Gun show loophole controversy", a less neutral title that implies it's only a controversy instead of a real issue, without any discussion. 09:51, 19 November 2014 Reverts to non-neutral version which contains unsourced original research, and brushes aside concern about lack of source. 06:28, 4 January 2015 Ditto 03:51, 2 January 2015 Argues that a paper by epidemiologists at the Harvard Injury Control Research Center is de facto unreliable (despite admitting he never read it) supposedly because evaluating injury rates is probably outside their field of expertise. 22:42, 2 January 2015 Ditto 19:55, 8 January 2015 Accuses me of "POV pushing" - an attack on another editor with no effort to resolve a problem. Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Tea_Party_movement#Arthur_Rubin_topic-banned If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts) Participated in an arbitration request or enforcement procedure about the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on 19:59, 16 May 2014. Additional comments by editor filing complaint Arthur Rubin keeps violating principles from the ArbCom's Gun Control decision. As an administrator he knows the rules but as an editor he doesn't follow them. He advocates a position by labeling a widely held POV as "pejorative" "propaganda", in articles and on talk pages. He reverts articles to restore non-neutral text without sources, despite objections of many editors. He doesn't seek consensus or compromise. He uses talk pages to say he's right and other editors are wrong. He says sources for his own assertions are unnecessary because they are "facts" that can't be disputed, while he discounts expert sources as being unreliable. He smears me as a POV-pusher as a dismissive insult better suited to driving off an editor than to resolve any article problems. The demonstrable "fact" is that he's using Misplaced Pages to advance a political position with whatever editing tricks are necessary. That's just what the ArbCom and the community have said is unacceptable. Maybe this is off-topic but gun control is one of the agenda items of the Tea Party movement, a topic where Arthur Rubin has already been sanctioned. During the Gun Control case, he argued that another user should be banned from articles about gun control because of that user's problems with editing Tea Party articles. Should he be held to the standard he sets for others? You decide. These repeated problems, with the Tea Party and with gun control, are examples of his recidivism - once again he's forcing through non-neutral edits about political issues in violation of Misplaced Pages policy. It might be easy to toss this out as a content dispute, or give a fellow admin extra leeway. Doing that wouldn't stop Arthur Rubin from making more reverts of reasonable edits, more additions of unsourced POV or more unsupported accusations about other editors. Arthur Rubin is an editor who can't or won't edit in a neutral manner on issues related to gun control. That's obvious to anyone who reviews his work. AE is the venue for enforcing the ArbCom's decision requiring editors in this topic to comply with site policies. This board should take appropriate action now to prevent the waste of many hours by many editors in the future. Inaction by AE probably means more battleground behavior to advance a cause, more one-sided editing of contentious topics, more antagonism to those who disagree, more defiance of the ArbCom and more violations of site policies. Sorry if this isn't formatted or framed perfectly. Please fix any mistakes in this complaint. I've already devoted more time to this than I should have to, and I won't be able to edit again in the upcoming week. Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested ##16:04, 9 January 2015 Discussion concerning Arthur Rubin Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by Arthur Rubin First, gun control is not one of the issues related to the Tea Party. It is subject to discretionary sanctions, but no specific reversion sanctions, such as WP:1RR. "Gun control" is mentioned twice in Tea Party movement, but the Tea Party is not mentioned in any gun control article that I have noticed. Neither concept is considered important to the other. My previous block for violating the Tea Party sanctions was for an article related to the Koch brothers, which some consider related to the Tea Party. In regard "pejorative" and WP:NPOV in gun show loophole controversy, the name "gun show loophole" clearly violates WP:NPOVTITLE, as it is only used by gun-control advocates. Unlike "Assault weapon", it is not a term-of-law, but only a term-of-propaganda. Adding "controversy" to the title is a minimal attempt at restoring WP:NPOV. Restoring "pejorative" to the first sentence is also an attempt to restore WP:NPOV; if one source, even an unreliable one, such as the Daily Kos article calls it "pejorative", and no source disagrees, it should be kept until a reliable source is found. There has been no claim made (other than by the complaining party) that his/her edits improve compliance to WP:NPOV on this article, or, in fact, any article other than American Hunters and Shooters Association. In terms of article improvement at gun show loophole controversy, a statement in the first sentence, similar to that in "assault weapon", that it is used to attempt to restrict firearm purchases, would balance even better than "pejorative". (I didn't bring that up on the talk page earlier because I hadn't read the article "assault weapon".) The complaining party has (in recent times, anyway), only edited gun control articles, and, with at few exceptions, has edited to increase the credibility of gun control, and discussed only "improvements" which increase the credibility of gun control. Those exceptions are on American Hunters and Shooters Association, for which I complemented the editor for not being a POV-warrior there. See Special:Contributions/162.119.231.132. This history shows that it is a stable IP. My recent edits to Talk:Gun politics in the United States probably are a violation; my only excuse is that EllenCT ~~is a known~~ accused in at least three ArbCom cases, and, in my opinion, correctly, of being a POV-warrior (finding of fact in two ArbCom cases), and that a 1993 paper which made the same conclusion, was fatally flawed, and recognized as such by most except gun control advocates. I shouldn't have done it. I'll try to stay away from Ellen unless I have specific facts to counter her opinions. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 18:09, 9 January 2015 (UTC) Changed reference to EllenCT; there are too many ArbCom cases in which Ellen was involved for me to be sure, but she was clearly acting as a POV-warrior in attempting to include a chart loosely related to wealth inequality on articles on income inequality, plutocracy, and other loosely related topics. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 20:00, 9 January 2015 (UTC) Ellen's claims that I am "stalking" her are completely unjustified. To the best of my knowledge, I never even looked at her contributions page. I decline comment as to whether her edits are likely within policy. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 20:43, 9 January 2015 (UTC) Statement by EllenCT There is no ArbCom finding of fact that I am a "POV-warrior", let alone in two cases. @Arthur Rubin: I demand that personal attack be struck. I have never been sanctioned by ArbCom or at ANI even though there are several people who have complained there about my insistence on adherence to reliable sources a handful of times over the years. The worst a closing admin has said about me at ANI is that the zeal with which I engage my opponents is cause for concern. But if it weren't for editors such as Arthur Rubin, who constantly stalks my contributions, often making up facts to suit his arguments, then I would be much less of a zealot. If Rubin is topic-banned from gun politics, then he has also been violating that ban at WP:NPOVN#Expert commentary on risks of living in a household with guns, where he has made up out of whole cloth reasons that WP:MEDRS sources on the risks of living in a household with guns are unacceptable for inclusion in the article where he says he probably violated his topic ban above, but has been unable to offer any sources which agree with his opinion. EllenCT (talk) 18:41, 9 January 2015 (UTC) There have been no ArbCom findings of fact concerning me, and I strongly object to Rubin's revised statement which states that there have been. The only accusations that I am a "POV-warrior" are personal attacks from Rubin himself, based on ordinary content disputes in which Rubin is clearly unable to comport himself civilly. The fact that Rubin is unable to strike his own false allegations, along with his lengthy history of sanctions, shows that he lacks the competence expected of editors, let alone administrators. If any other administrator would like me to email the evidence showing that Rubin has been stalking my edits, please leave a note on my talk page. EllenCT (talk) 02:18, 10 January 2015 (UTC) Statement by (username) Result concerning Arthur Rubin This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. As submitted, this appears mostly not actionable because it mostly reflects content disputes. I don't also readily see any edit that might violate Arthur Rubin's Tea Party topic ban; the edits here are about gun control but not about the Tea Party. However, there are some points of concern. Even though I know next to nothing about the issue, Arthur Rubin's edits of 8 January 2015 which repeatedly changed the lead sentence of "assault weapon" to "... is a political term used by anti gun advocacy groups ..." strikes me as so distinctly partisan in tone that it might be considered a violation of the conduct aspect of WP:NPOV, which requires that "editors ... should strive in good faith ... not to promote one particular point of view over another". Also, as EllenCT points out, Arthur Rubin's unsubstantiated allegation here that ArbCom found her to be a "POV-warrior" is, at least, a violation of the "casting aspersions" principle enunciated repeatedly by the Committee in application of our WP:NPA policy. I invite comment by other admins about whether this suffices for a "gun control" topic ban in light of Arthur Rubin's previous sanctions in the similar "Tea Party" topic area. Sandstein 20:10, 9 January 2015 (UTC) I find the conduct presented to be extremely problematic. Discussion of reliability of sources is mostly a content issue and not really within AE's jurisdiction. Conduct issues, though, such as moving an article to a title which at least some editors believe to be non-neutral, edit-warring, addition of POV original research ("political term used by anti gun advocacy groups", insertion of "pejorative" in the lead sentence), personal attacks, and casting aspersions are very much issues for AE. I note with interest that this appears to be exactly the conduct that led to Arthur Rubin's topic ban from the Tea Party movement, but I'm struggling to see how he is formally "aware" of the discretionary sanctions. Unless awareness can be demonstrated, all we can do is deliver the template, though a block as an ordinary admin action is not out of the question. HJ Mitchell \| Penny for your thoughts? 01:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC) Arthur Rubin is considered aware of discretionary sanctions concerning gun control because he participated in an AE request discussion about gun control on 16 May 2014, that is, within the last 12 months, as required by WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts. Sandstein 10:02, 11 January 2015 (UTC) Ah, thank you for that diff. That being the case, I endorse a topic ban from gun control. Given that this conduct appears to have moved here after AR was topic-banned from the Tea Party movement, I worry that we'll just be shunting the issue to some other political topic, but I suppose if that becomes an issue it's up to ArbCom to handle it. HJ Mitchell \| Penny for your thoughts? 15:14, 11 January 2015 (UTC) I agree that there is enough evidence to support a topic ban from gun control (as described in the case) especially when the Tea Party movement TBAN is taken into consideration. I'll close this in the next 24-48 hours if there are no further comments. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 04:46, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Arthur Rubin topic-banned from gun control. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 13:42, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Arthur Rubin

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: 162.119.231.132 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 16:06, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Arthur Rubin (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gun control#Discretionary sanctions :

Principles

Neutral point of view

All Misplaced Pages articles must be written from a neutral point of view, with all relevant points of view represented in reasonable proportion to their importance and relevance to the subject-matter of the article. Undue weight should not be given to aspects that are peripheral to the topic. Original research and synthesized claims are prohibited. Use of a Misplaced Pages article for advocacy or promotion, either in favor of or against an individual, institution, or idea that is the subject of the article, is prohibited.

Advocacy

Misplaced Pages articles should present a neutral view of their subject. Use of a Misplaced Pages article for advocacy or promotion is prohibited.

Battleground conduct

Inflammatory accusations often perpetuate disputes, poison the well of existing discussions, and disrupt the editing atmosphere. Discussions should be held with a view toward reaching a solution that can gain a genuine consensus. Attempting to exhaust or drive off editors who disagree through hostile conduct, rather than through legitimate dispute-resolution methods pursued only when legitimately necessary, is destructive to the consensus process and is not acceptable.

Making allegations against other editors

Claims of misconduct should be made with the goal of resolving the problem, not of impugning another editor's reputation.

Recidivism

Editors who have already been sanctioned for disruptive behavior may be sanctioned more harshly for repeated instances of similar behaviors.

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

19:42, 8 January 2015 Reverts to non-neutral version which contains unsourced original research
19:32, 8 January 2015 Reverts to non-neutral version which contains unsourced original research
15:35, 3 December 2014 Argues that a term is "pejorative" or "propaganda" based on his belief and insisting that no source is necessary because no one disputes it - that's a violation of all three core content policies: WP:NPOV, WP:V, WP:NOR.
15:31, 2 December 2014 Moves article from "Gun show loophole" to "Gun show loophole controversy", a less neutral title that implies it's only a controversy instead of a real issue, without any discussion.
09:51, 19 November 2014 Reverts to non-neutral version which contains unsourced original research, and brushes aside concern about lack of source.
06:28, 4 January 2015 Ditto
03:51, 2 January 2015 Argues that a paper by epidemiologists at the Harvard Injury Control Research Center is de facto unreliable (despite admitting he never read it) supposedly because evaluating injury rates is probably outside their field of expertise.
22:42, 2 January 2015 Ditto
19:55, 8 January 2015 Accuses me of "POV pushing" - an attack on another editor with no effort to resolve a problem.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Tea_Party_movement#Arthur_Rubin_topic-banned

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Participated in an arbitration request or enforcement procedure about the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on 19:59, 16 May 2014.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Arthur Rubin keeps violating principles from the ArbCom's Gun Control decision. As an administrator he knows the rules but as an editor he doesn't follow them. He advocates a position by labeling a widely held POV as "pejorative" "propaganda", in articles and on talk pages. He reverts articles to restore non-neutral text without sources, despite objections of many editors. He doesn't seek consensus or compromise. He uses talk pages to say he's right and other editors are wrong. He says sources for his own assertions are unnecessary because they are "facts" that can't be disputed, while he discounts expert sources as being unreliable. He smears me as a POV-pusher as a dismissive insult better suited to driving off an editor than to resolve any article problems. The demonstrable "fact" is that he's using Misplaced Pages to advance a political position with whatever editing tricks are necessary. That's just what the ArbCom and the community have said is unacceptable.

Maybe this is off-topic but gun control is one of the agenda items of the Tea Party movement, a topic where Arthur Rubin has already been sanctioned. During the Gun Control case, he argued that another user should be banned from articles about gun control because of that user's problems with editing Tea Party articles. Should he be held to the standard he sets for others? You decide. These repeated problems, with the Tea Party and with gun control, are examples of his recidivism - once again he's forcing through non-neutral edits about political issues in violation of Misplaced Pages policy.

It might be easy to toss this out as a content dispute, or give a fellow admin extra leeway. Doing that wouldn't stop Arthur Rubin from making more reverts of reasonable edits, more additions of unsourced POV or more unsupported accusations about other editors. Arthur Rubin is an editor who can't or won't edit in a neutral manner on issues related to gun control. That's obvious to anyone who reviews his work.

AE is the venue for enforcing the ArbCom's decision requiring editors in this topic to comply with site policies. This board should take appropriate action now to prevent the waste of many hours by many editors in the future. Inaction by AE probably means more battleground behavior to advance a cause, more one-sided editing of contentious topics, more antagonism to those who disagree, more defiance of the ArbCom and more violations of site policies.

Sorry if this isn't formatted or framed perfectly. Please fix any mistakes in this complaint. I've already devoted more time to this than I should have to, and I won't be able to edit again in the upcoming week.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

##16:04, 9 January 2015

Discussion concerning Arthur Rubin

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Arthur Rubin

First, gun control is not one of the issues related to the Tea Party. It is subject to discretionary sanctions, but no specific reversion sanctions, such as WP:1RR. "Gun control" is mentioned twice in Tea Party movement, but the Tea Party is not mentioned in any gun control article that I have noticed. Neither concept is considered important to the other. My previous block for violating the Tea Party sanctions was for an article related to the Koch brothers, which some consider related to the Tea Party.

In regard "pejorative" and WP:NPOV in gun show loophole controversy, the name "gun show loophole" clearly violates WP:NPOVTITLE, as it is only used by gun-control advocates. Unlike "Assault weapon", it is not a term-of-law, but only a term-of-propaganda. Adding "controversy" to the title is a minimal attempt at restoring WP:NPOV. Restoring "pejorative" to the first sentence is also an attempt to restore WP:NPOV; if one source, even an unreliable one, such as the Daily Kos article calls it "pejorative", and no source disagrees, it should be kept until a reliable source is found. There has been no claim made (other than by the complaining party) that his/her edits improve compliance to WP:NPOV on this article, or, in fact, any article other than American Hunters and Shooters Association. In terms of article improvement at gun show loophole controversy, a statement in the first sentence, similar to that in "assault weapon", that it is used to attempt to restrict firearm purchases, would balance even better than "pejorative". (I didn't bring that up on the talk page earlier because I hadn't read the article "assault weapon".)

The complaining party has (in recent times, anyway), only edited gun control articles, and, with at few exceptions, has edited to increase the credibility of gun control, and discussed only "improvements" which increase the credibility of gun control. Those exceptions are on American Hunters and Shooters Association, for which I complemented the editor for not being a POV-warrior there. See Special:Contributions/162.119.231.132. This history shows that it is a stable IP.

My recent edits to Talk:Gun politics in the United States probably are a violation; my only excuse is that EllenCT ~~is a known~~ accused in at least three ArbCom cases, and, in my opinion, correctly, of being a POV-warrior (finding of fact in two ArbCom cases), and that a 1993 paper which made the same conclusion, was fatally flawed, and recognized as such by most except gun control advocates. I shouldn't have done it. I'll try to stay away from Ellen unless I have specific facts to counter her opinions. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 18:09, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Changed reference to EllenCT; there are too many ArbCom cases in which Ellen was involved for me to be sure, but she was clearly acting as a POV-warrior in attempting to include a chart loosely related to wealth inequality on articles on income inequality, plutocracy, and other loosely related topics. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 20:00, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Ellen's claims that I am "stalking" her are completely unjustified. To the best of my knowledge, I never even looked at her contributions page. I decline comment as to whether her edits are likely within policy. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 20:43, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by EllenCT

There is no ArbCom finding of fact that I am a "POV-warrior", let alone in two cases. @Arthur Rubin: I demand that personal attack be struck. I have never been sanctioned by ArbCom or at ANI even though there are several people who have complained there about my insistence on adherence to reliable sources a handful of times over the years. The worst a closing admin has said about me at ANI is that the zeal with which I engage my opponents is cause for concern. But if it weren't for editors such as Arthur Rubin, who constantly stalks my contributions, often making up facts to suit his arguments, then I would be much less of a zealot. If Rubin is topic-banned from gun politics, then he has also been violating that ban at WP:NPOVN#Expert commentary on risks of living in a household with guns, where he has made up out of whole cloth reasons that WP:MEDRS sources on the risks of living in a household with guns are unacceptable for inclusion in the article where he says he probably violated his topic ban above, but has been unable to offer any sources which agree with his opinion. EllenCT (talk) 18:41, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

There have been no ArbCom findings of fact concerning me, and I strongly object to Rubin's revised statement which states that there have been. The only accusations that I am a "POV-warrior" are personal attacks from Rubin himself, based on ordinary content disputes in which Rubin is clearly unable to comport himself civilly. The fact that Rubin is unable to strike his own false allegations, along with his lengthy history of sanctions, shows that he lacks the competence expected of editors, let alone administrators. If any other administrator would like me to email the evidence showing that Rubin has been stalking my edits, please leave a note on my talk page. EllenCT (talk) 02:18, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Arthur Rubin

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

As submitted, this appears mostly not actionable because it mostly reflects content disputes. I don't also readily see any edit that might violate Arthur Rubin's Tea Party topic ban; the edits here are about gun control but not about the Tea Party. However, there are some points of concern. Even though I know next to nothing about the issue, Arthur Rubin's edits of 8 January 2015 which repeatedly changed the lead sentence of "assault weapon" to "... is a political term used by anti gun advocacy groups ..." strikes me as so distinctly partisan in tone that it might be considered a violation of the conduct aspect of WP:NPOV, which requires that "editors ... should strive in good faith ... not to promote one particular point of view over another". Also, as EllenCT points out, Arthur Rubin's unsubstantiated allegation here that ArbCom found her to be a "POV-warrior" is, at least, a violation of the "casting aspersions" principle enunciated repeatedly by the Committee in application of our WP:NPA policy. I invite comment by other admins about whether this suffices for a "gun control" topic ban in light of Arthur Rubin's previous sanctions in the similar "Tea Party" topic area. Sandstein 20:10, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

I find the conduct presented to be extremely problematic. Discussion of reliability of sources is mostly a content issue and not really within AE's jurisdiction. Conduct issues, though, such as moving an article to a title which at least some editors believe to be non-neutral, edit-warring, addition of POV original research ("political term used by anti gun advocacy groups", insertion of "pejorative" in the lead sentence), personal attacks, and casting aspersions are very much issues for AE. I note with interest that this appears to be exactly the conduct that led to Arthur Rubin's topic ban from the Tea Party movement, but I'm struggling to see how he is formally "aware" of the discretionary sanctions. Unless awareness can be demonstrated, all we can do is deliver the template, though a block as an ordinary admin action is not out of the question. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 01:56, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Arthur Rubin is considered aware of discretionary sanctions concerning gun control because he participated in an AE request discussion about gun control on 16 May 2014, that is, within the last 12 months, as required by WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts. Sandstein 10:02, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Ah, thank you for that diff. That being the case, I endorse a topic ban from gun control. Given that this conduct appears to have moved here after AR was topic-banned from the Tea Party movement, I worry that we'll just be shunting the issue to some other political topic, but I suppose if that becomes an issue it's up to ArbCom to handle it. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:14, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

I agree that there is enough evidence to support a topic ban from gun control (as described in the case) especially when the Tea Party movement TBAN is taken into consideration. I'll close this in the next 24-48 hours if there are no further comments. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 04:46, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Sitush

No enforcement action taken. HJ Mitchell \| Penny for your thoughts? 21:27, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning Sitush User who is submitting this request for enforcement Smallbones (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 02:43, 10 January 2015 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Sitush (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Interactions at GGTF : Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Interactions_at_GGTF#Discretionary_sanctions Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it Jan 8 at the Gender Task Force talk page - which ArbCom has said that he's disrupted before - he insists that an article written by members of the task force is in poor shape, and that editors must respond to his complaints, or that he will escalate Jan 9 Removed a sourced sentence (refs at end of paragraph) that essentailly summarizes the 3 sources. Jan9 Removed a revised sourced sentence that exactly summarizes the 3 sources Jan 9 Removed the same sourced sentence again, essentially threatening an edit war Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any Date none that I know of Date Explanation If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them I'm only asking that Admins watch the article and talk pages to prevent any edit warring or similar bullying tactics. User:Sitush is aware that I'm here, he asked me to come here (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts): Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above. YES Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above. Don't know Previously given a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict on Date by Username (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA). Don't know Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above. Don't know Gave an alert about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date Don't know Participated in an arbitration request or enforcement procedure about the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date. Successfully appealed all their own sanctions relating to the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date. Additional comments by editor filing complaint Please just let him know that somebody is watching him Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested See above - he requested that I come here. I'll repeat immediately after saving here Discussion concerning Sitush Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by Sitush I know that I am being watched. This is a content dispute and I am being as careful as possible to keep it on topic. My only mentions of this thing at WT:GGTF have been in direct relation to the fact that the article emerged from a discussion at GGTF and it is quite obvious to me that there is something going on here that amounts to freezing me out. Fortunately, some other people in good standing and with decent knowledge of policy etc are also recognising that. The entire issue is really one for a variety of noticeboards - OR, NPOV, BLP, wherever coatracking should be taken, etc - and perhaps for a RfC unless it can be resolved on the talk page, where my valid concerns are largely being ignored. The very fact that Smallbones was quick to refer to the Arbcom case there, and then came here asking for very little, should indicate that this is a pretty spurious request. I could provide diffs but I suggest that people read the article talk page. I'm off to bed. - Sitush (talk) 02:51, 10 January 2015 (UTC) @Johnuniq, the article is very slowly improving in parts. The discussion should be at the article but I've been forced to go to GGTF because much of it in fact is/was taking place there. The article is not the property of GGTF even though it emanated from a discussion there. Since I was quite clearly being ignored at article talk, my comments at GGTF were intended to draw attention to the issues by using the very forum that the creator etc was using to draw attention to it, asking people to respond in what in fact should be the correct forum. You'll note that others contributed and agreed with me, with this one being quite notable. I'm well aware that I'm being gamed into this situation - OrangesRyellow, for example, has a long history of disliking me from Indo-Pak articles where their POV was also very evident, and a history of latching on to me when they think they can turn things against me - but if no-one actually objects to points that I raise then they cannot really complain if, three days later, I do something about it. I tried to discuss, others didn't; eg: here. What is likely to happen, and seemingly did in the specific case that you linked, is that I'll change something and I'll be gamed to the limit of 3RR by a group of other people. In the process, some changes to the wording or whatever will actually happen. I've said that I will escalate the issues by if things do not improve further and I will do that, although right now I am not sure where the venue should be because the issues as of last night are many and varied. I would appreciate anyone's thoughts regarding an appropriate venue. Chess has suggested RfC but framing that neutrally might be difficult due to the wide range of issues. None of the issues actually relate to GGTF itself and the admin action requested here is bizarre even if they were. - Sitush (talk) 11:24, 10 January 2015 (UTC) @Chess: OrangesRyellow and myself have a fairly long history due to pov concerns related to the Indo-Pakistani subject area - me neutral, them less so. They got into a fair amount of trouble and have ever since seemed to follow me around whenever they get an inkling that I might be in trouble with the powers that be. It isn't a battle worth fighting. They'll be gone from here before I am and their initial involvement in the article in question is just another example of their inability to be neutral. - Sitush (talk) 01:53, 11 January 2015 (UTC) @HJ Mitchell: please can you tell me what it is I am supposed to be doing wrong. You want to caution me but I haven't got a clue why that is so. Like me or loathe me, I'm among those doing a lot of good at the article, turning it from a hyperbolic cheerleading puff piece into something that is more balanced. Sure, you see reverts but that is because too many people are not discussing: I leave a comment for a few days and then act on it if no-one has responded etc. It just happens that then they respond. If that is what it takes to get some sort of fix for the problem then that is what is necessary. I don't think there is a single instance where I have edited the article and my entire original point has been rejected. - Sitush (talk) 18:00, 11 January 2015 (UTC) Statement by Johnuniq It would be helpful if an admin would monitor WT:GGTF and articles which have been discussed there, such as Women's rights in 2014 (created on 2 January 2015). I have not noticed any commentary which is sanctionable, but in view of WP:ARBGGTF it would be desirable for warnings to be issued before the current low-level sniping gets out of hand. For example, there is no need for edit summaries like "oh, ffs, I thought that was smallbones - here comes the meat brigade, I guess" (diff). We are all volunteers, and people can choose which of the many problems at Misplaced Pages merit their attention, but there is no need for the enthusiasm seen at places like Talk:Women's rights in 2014 so soon after WP:ARBGGTF. @Bishonen: I understand your instinct to protect Sitush, but you know there is a problem. If no one cares sufficiently to monitor the situation, we can wait until it blows up if you like. Johnuniq (talk) 05:21, 10 January 2015 (UTC) Statement by Chess What did Sitush do? He proposed a removal of a sentence, waited a while, then removed it. Then somebody reverted him. Then he reverted that person back, because they did not address Sitush's argument. I'm not going to comment on what sentence is better oon AE, but quoting OrangesRyellow, "When Sitush is around, you will be treated to a constant barrage of frequent tirades, absurd accusations, ANIs, SPIs, etc. and the whole area comes to be seen as "problematic" because of those tirades, absurd accusations etc. The topic of this article is simple enough, but it will be madeproblematic, through polemics, etc. There is a reason why people chose to ignore". That isn't very civil, since if OrangesRyellow has a problem with Sitush's behaviour, maybe it should be taken up at the proper forum (quote by me:"If you have a problem with Sitush's behaviour, why don't you take it up at the proper forum? Such as WP:AN/I or possibly WP:AE." But then OrangesRyellow said in response, "Because I think I am better off doing more constructive things in my limited wiki-time". It's not very constructive to make those allegations in the first place in a debate on content, and I think OrangesRyellow should be made aware of that. Grognard Chess (talk) Ping when replying 17:35, 10 January 2015 (UTC) @Sitush: You shouldn't be forced to stop editing an article because of some people who disagree with you. If they don't address your argument, start an RfC, which I am about to do. Grognard Chess (talk) Ping when replying 02:01, 11 January 2015 (UTC) Statement by (username) Result concerning Sitush This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. I'm not much of a regular at AE, but surely this kind of thing is not what it's for? To tell Sitush he's being watched? The instructions above are pretty clear: Please use this page only to request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a discretionary sanction imposed by an administrator. The remedies that were passed re Sitush was that a) he's warned not to create articles regarding editors he's in conflict with, and b) he's warned not to interact with Carolmooredc. He hasn't done any of those things as far as I know, and Smallbones hasn't said he did. No injunction was imposed on Sitush in the case, and no discretionary sanctions have since been imposed on him by an administrator. For completeness, I don't think the idea of violating a "finding of fact" has been envisioned — it seems philosophically awkward — nor are findings of fact mentioned in the instructions for posting a report here. But just to make them accessible, here are links to the findings of fact against Sitush: and , so you can see whether you find them violable, or to have been violated in this case. It seems frivolous to come here without requesting any admin action, and without claiming that any remedies, injunctions or discretionary sanctions have been violated. Again, Please use this page only to request administrative action etc. My bolding. Bishonen \| talk 05:13, 10 January 2015 (UTC). I think this is not actionable. Diff 1, a talk page comment, does not strike me as disruptive or sanctionable, particularly considering that the remedy reads: "The availability of sanctions is not intended to prevent free and candid discussion on these pages, but sanctions should be imposed if an editor severely or persistently disrupts the discussion." The remaining diffs are of edits to an article, Women's rights in 2014, that is not among the "pages relating to the Gender gap task force" and are therefore not within the scope of discretionary sanctions. This request can be closed without action. Sandstein 15:39, 10 January 2015 (UTC) The article Women's rights in 2014 does not appear to fall under the discretionary sanctions of WP:ARBGGTF. However if Sitush's remarks on any GGTF project page violate policy then the sanctions do apply. At present I see no reason for enforcement here. Sitush might consider opening a WP:Request for comment on some of the disputed points. The article is likely to turn into a list of interesting things that happened in 2014 that newspaper editorial writers believe are connected to women's rights. Summarizing editorial opinion is always hard, but it is common for such opinions to be mentioned in Misplaced Pages articles when they are judged relevant. Editorial writers tend to use an uplifting style that may not tie closely to easily-observed facts. Deciding whether 2014 was or was not 'a watershed year for women's rights' can't be determined by any method known to science. So my suggestion to Sitush would be to take this article off his watchlist, to save frustration. If he does choose to continue he will be subject to the normal WP:Edit warring policy. EdJohnston (talk) 16:59, 10 January 2015 (UTC) Since the article was created by GGF members as a result of a discussion at the GGTF, I think it can be reasonably construed as being related to the GGTF, especially as this request concerns editor interaction (as opposed to, say, POV pushing). I recommend a strongly worded caution to Sitush, logged as a discretionary sanction, to comment on content and not on contributors. Beyond that, we don't want to get into the business of policing good-faith—if terse—content discussions. HJ Mitchell \| Penny for your thoughts? 15:35, 11 January 2015 (UTC) @Sitush: comments like "oh, ffs, I thought that was smallbones - here comes the meat brigade, I guess" suggest to me that you need to keep a firmer grasp on your temper and remember to "comment on content, not on the contributor". Since you're not one of those editors who seems to find their conduct being discussed here every other week, a caution seems to me to be proportionate. Assuming it's an isolated incident and you don't have a habit of losing your temper or personalising content disputes, no more will be said about it; if it turns out that you do have a habit of making such remarks (I've seen nothing before the GGTF case to suggest that you have, but assuming for argument's sake that you do), then admins evaluating future AE requests about your conduct will see the logged caution and factor that into the decision-making. HJ Mitchell \| Penny for your thoughts? 16:12, 12 January 2015 (UTC) I don't agree that the article is covered by these discretionary sanctions, they specifically link to the Misplaced Pages page and are not broadly construed, see as well the aritrator discussion on the proposed decision page. I don't believe that the small amount of evidence presented which relates directly to the GGTF page is enough to warrant sanctions being placed, though a general caution to everyone involved wouldn't go astray. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 04:54, 13 January 2015 (UTC) Considering that it's a direct continuation of the dispute that led to the arbitration case, involving the same parties and resulting directly from a discussion at the GGTF, I think it's overly conservative to say that the article is not within the scope of the discretionary sanctions. Nonetheless, I'm in the minority, and even if we agreed that the discretionary sanctions were applicable, I don't see us getting a consensus for any admin action. I suggest we wrap this up; I don't object to a 'general caution' to all parties, but I'm not sure what it would accomplish and it doesn't necessarily have to be done through AE. HJ Mitchell \| Penny for your thoughts? 14:08, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

No enforcement action taken. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:27, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Sitush

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Smallbones (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 02:43, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Sitush (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Interactions at GGTF :

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Interactions_at_GGTF#Discretionary_sanctions

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Jan 8 at the Gender Task Force talk page - which ArbCom has said that he's disrupted before - he insists that an article written by members of the task force is in poor shape, and that editors must respond to his complaints, or that he will escalate
Jan 9 Removed a sourced sentence (refs at end of paragraph) that essentailly summarizes the 3 sources.
Jan9 Removed a revised sourced sentence that exactly summarizes the 3 sources
Jan 9 Removed the same sourced sentence again, essentially threatening an edit war

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

Date none that I know of
Date Explanation

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them

I'm only asking that Admins watch the article and talk pages to prevent any edit warring or similar bullying tactics. User:Sitush is aware that I'm here, he asked me to come here (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts):

Mentioned by name in the Arbitration Committee's Final Decision linked to above. YES
Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above. Don't know
Previously given a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict on Date by Username (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA). Don't know
Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above. Don't know
Gave an alert about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date Don't know
Participated in an arbitration request or enforcement procedure about the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date.
Successfully appealed all their own sanctions relating to the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Date.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Please just let him know that somebody is watching him

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

See above - he requested that I come here. I'll repeat immediately after saving here

Discussion concerning Sitush

Statement by Sitush

I know that I am being watched. This is a content dispute and I am being as careful as possible to keep it on topic. My only mentions of this thing at WT:GGTF have been in direct relation to the fact that the article emerged from a discussion at GGTF and it is quite obvious to me that there is something going on here that amounts to freezing me out. Fortunately, some other people in good standing and with decent knowledge of policy etc are also recognising that.

The entire issue is really one for a variety of noticeboards - OR, NPOV, BLP, wherever coatracking should be taken, etc - and perhaps for a RfC unless it can be resolved on the talk page, where my valid concerns are largely being ignored. The very fact that Smallbones was quick to refer to the Arbcom case there, and then came here asking for very little, should indicate that this is a pretty spurious request. I could provide diffs but I suggest that people read the article talk page. I'm off to bed. - Sitush (talk) 02:51, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

@Johnuniq, the article is very slowly improving in parts. The discussion should be at the article but I've been forced to go to GGTF because much of it in fact is/was taking place there.

The article is not the property of GGTF even though it emanated from a discussion there. Since I was quite clearly being ignored at article talk, my comments at GGTF were intended to draw attention to the issues by using the very forum that the creator etc was using to draw attention to it, asking people to respond in what in fact should be the correct forum. You'll note that others contributed and agreed with me, with this one being quite notable. I'm well aware that I'm being gamed into this situation - OrangesRyellow, for example, has a long history of disliking me from Indo-Pak articles where their POV was also very evident, and a history of latching on to me when they think they can turn things against me - but if no-one actually objects to points that I raise then they cannot really complain if, three days later, I do something about it. I tried to discuss, others didn't; eg: here. What is likely to happen, and seemingly did in the specific case that you linked, is that I'll change something and I'll be gamed to the limit of 3RR by a group of other people. In the process, some changes to the wording or whatever will actually happen.

I've said that I will escalate the issues by if things do not improve further and I will do that, although right now I am not sure where the venue should be because the issues as of last night are many and varied. I would appreciate anyone's thoughts regarding an appropriate venue. Chess has suggested RfC but framing that neutrally might be difficult due to the wide range of issues.

None of the issues actually relate to GGTF itself and the admin action requested here is bizarre even if they were. - Sitush (talk) 11:24, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

@Chess: OrangesRyellow and myself have a fairly long history due to pov concerns related to the Indo-Pakistani subject area - me neutral, them less so. They got into a fair amount of trouble and have ever since seemed to follow me around whenever they get an inkling that I might be in trouble with the powers that be. It isn't a battle worth fighting. They'll be gone from here before I am and their initial involvement in the article in question is just another example of their inability to be neutral. - Sitush (talk) 01:53, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

@HJ Mitchell: please can you tell me what it is I am supposed to be doing wrong. You want to caution me but I haven't got a clue why that is so. Like me or loathe me, I'm among those doing a lot of good at the article, turning it from a hyperbolic cheerleading puff piece into something that is more balanced. Sure, you see reverts but that is because too many people are not discussing: I leave a comment for a few days and then act on it if no-one has responded etc. It just happens that then they respond. If that is what it takes to get some sort of fix for the problem then that is what is necessary. I don't think there is a single instance where I have edited the article and my entire original point has been rejected. - Sitush (talk) 18:00, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Johnuniq

It would be helpful if an admin would monitor WT:GGTF and articles which have been discussed there, such as Women's rights in 2014 (created on 2 January 2015). I have not noticed any commentary which is sanctionable, but in view of WP:ARBGGTF it would be desirable for warnings to be issued before the current low-level sniping gets out of hand. For example, there is no need for edit summaries like "oh, ffs, I thought that was smallbones - here comes the meat brigade, I guess" (diff). We are all volunteers, and people can choose which of the many problems at Misplaced Pages merit their attention, but there is no need for the enthusiasm seen at places like Talk:Women's rights in 2014 so soon after WP:ARBGGTF.

@Bishonen: I understand your instinct to protect Sitush, but you know there is a problem. If no one cares sufficiently to monitor the situation, we can wait until it blows up if you like. Johnuniq (talk) 05:21, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Chess

What did Sitush do? He proposed a removal of a sentence, waited a while, then removed it. Then somebody reverted him. Then he reverted that person back, because they did not address Sitush's argument. I'm not going to comment on what sentence is better oon AE, but quoting OrangesRyellow, "When Sitush is around, you will be treated to a constant barrage of frequent tirades, absurd accusations, ANIs, SPIs, etc. and the whole area comes to be seen as "problematic" because of those tirades, absurd accusations etc. The topic of this article is simple enough, but it will be madeproblematic, through polemics, etc. There is a reason why people chose to ignore". That isn't very civil, since if OrangesRyellow has a problem with Sitush's behaviour, maybe it should be taken up at the proper forum (quote by me:"If you have a problem with Sitush's behaviour, why don't you take it up at the proper forum? Such as WP:AN/I or possibly WP:AE." But then OrangesRyellow said in response, "Because I think I am better off doing more constructive things in my limited wiki-time". It's not very constructive to make those allegations in the first place in a debate on content, and I think OrangesRyellow should be made aware of that. Grognard Chess (talk) Ping when replying 17:35, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

@Sitush: You shouldn't be forced to stop editing an article because of some people who disagree with you. If they don't address your argument, start an RfC, which I am about to do. Grognard Chess (talk) Ping when replying 02:01, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Sitush

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

I'm not much of a regular at AE, but surely this kind of thing is not what it's for? To tell Sitush he's being watched? The instructions above are pretty clear: Please use this page only to request administrative action against editors violating a remedy (not merely a principle) or an injunction in an Arbitration Committee decision, or a discretionary sanction imposed by an administrator. The remedies that were passed re Sitush was that a) he's warned not to create articles regarding editors he's in conflict with, and b) he's warned not to interact with Carolmooredc. He hasn't done any of those things as far as I know, and Smallbones hasn't said he did. No injunction was imposed on Sitush in the case, and no discretionary sanctions have since been imposed on him by an administrator.

For completeness, I don't think the idea of violating a "finding of fact" has been envisioned — it seems philosophically awkward — nor are findings of fact mentioned in the instructions for posting a report here. But just to make them accessible, here are links to the findings of fact against Sitush: and , so you can see whether you find them violable, or to have been violated in this case.

It seems frivolous to come here without requesting any admin action, and without claiming that any remedies, injunctions or discretionary sanctions have been violated. Again, Please use this page only to request administrative action etc. My bolding. Bishonen | talk 05:13, 10 January 2015 (UTC).

I think this is not actionable. Diff 1, a talk page comment, does not strike me as disruptive or sanctionable, particularly considering that the remedy reads: "The availability of sanctions is not intended to prevent free and candid discussion on these pages, but sanctions should be imposed if an editor severely or persistently disrupts the discussion." The remaining diffs are of edits to an article, Women's rights in 2014, that is not among the "pages relating to the Gender gap task force" and are therefore not within the scope of discretionary sanctions. This request can be closed without action. Sandstein 15:39, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

The article Women's rights in 2014 does *not* appear to fall under the discretionary sanctions of WP:ARBGGTF. However if Sitush's remarks on any GGTF project page violate policy then the sanctions do apply. At present I see no reason for enforcement here. Sitush might consider opening a WP:Request for comment on some of the disputed points. The article is likely to turn into a list of interesting things that happened in 2014 that newspaper editorial writers believe are connected to women's rights. Summarizing editorial opinion is always hard, but it is common for such opinions to be mentioned in Misplaced Pages articles when they are judged relevant. Editorial writers tend to use an uplifting style that may not tie closely to easily-observed facts. Deciding whether 2014 was or was not 'a watershed year for women's rights' can't be determined by any method known to science. So my suggestion to Sitush would be to take this article off his watchlist, to save frustration. If he does choose to continue he will be subject to the normal WP:Edit warring policy. EdJohnston (talk) 16:59, 10 January 2015 (UTC)

Since the article was created by GGF members as a result of a discussion at the GGTF, I think it can be reasonably construed as being related to the GGTF, especially as this request concerns editor interaction (as opposed to, say, POV pushing). I recommend a strongly worded caution to Sitush, logged as a discretionary sanction, to comment on content and not on contributors. Beyond that, we don't want to get into the business of policing good-faith—if terse—content discussions. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:35, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

@Sitush: comments like "oh, ffs, I thought that was smallbones - here comes the meat brigade, I guess" suggest to me that you need to keep a firmer grasp on your temper and remember to "comment on content, not on the contributor". Since you're not one of those editors who seems to find their conduct being discussed here every other week, a caution seems to me to be proportionate. Assuming it's an isolated incident and you don't have a habit of losing your temper or personalising content disputes, no more will be said about it; if it turns out that you do have a habit of making such remarks (I've seen nothing before the GGTF case to suggest that you have, but assuming for argument's sake that you do), then admins evaluating future AE requests about your conduct will see the logged caution and factor that into the decision-making. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:12, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

I don't agree that the article is covered by these discretionary sanctions, they specifically link to the Misplaced Pages page and are not broadly construed, see as well the aritrator discussion on the proposed decision page. I don't believe that the small amount of evidence presented which relates directly to the GGTF page is enough to warrant sanctions being placed, though a general caution to everyone involved wouldn't go astray. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 04:54, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Considering that it's a direct continuation of the dispute that led to the arbitration case, involving the same parties and resulting directly from a discussion at the GGTF, I think it's overly conservative to say that the article is not within the scope of the discretionary sanctions. Nonetheless, I'm in the minority, and even if we agreed that the discretionary sanctions were applicable, I don't see us getting a consensus for any admin action. I suggest we wrap this up; I don't object to a 'general caution' to all parties, but I'm not sure what it would accomplish and it doesn't necessarily have to be done through AE. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 14:08, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

Factchecker atyourservice

No enforcement action taken against Factchecker atyourservice; RAN1 reminded of the purpose of AE. HJ Mitchell \| Penny for your thoughts? 16:14, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning Factchecker atyourservice User who is submitting this request for enforcement RAN1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 02:40, 11 January 2015 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Factchecker atyourservice (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Footnoted quotes#May 2014 (NEWBLPBAN): Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it - dismisses RFC as illegitimate, initial post airing this disagreement, 20:11. January 6, 2015 (UTC) - in response to Gaijin42, insists that RFC would not be cut short by agreeing to use non-disputed image. 16:13, January 9, 2015 - attacks Gaijin42 without responding to lack of support for his assertion or otherwise contributing to discussion. 16:53, January 9, 2015 (UTC) - dismisses RAN1’s argument with rhetorical questions. 22:08, January 10, 2015 (UTC) - asks RAN1 to clarify analysis. 23:04, January 10, 2015 (UTC) - after RAN1 clarifies, unproductive comment. 23:32, January 10, 2015 (UTC) - response to RAN1, aggressive attacks with no contribution to discussion. 00:05, January 11, 2015 (UTC) - response to Gaijin42, borders incivility and shows battleground mentality. 00:25, January 11, 2015 (UTC) - FCAYS says then we also need to include the "giant tough guy committing strongarm robbery the day of the shooting" photo, for balance (with regards to Michael Brown). 23:26, January 10, 2015 (UTC) Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any - AE Warning - BATTLE/CIVIL 16:52, December 27, 2014 (UTC) - AE block for incivility. 01:32, January 7, 2015 (UTC) If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts) Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above. Previously given a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict on 27 December, 2014 by Cailil (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA). Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above. Additional comments by editor filing complaint Recently, a dispute has come up on Talk:Shooting of Michael Brown about whether a photo of Michael Brown should be used and which one. An RFC was started, but FCAYS disputed its validity on the grounds that BLP overrides consensus. As this argument was dismissed, they became somewhat confrontational, and insisted with an almost personal attack that consensus be unconsidered on the basis of a BLP violation that no other editor supported. Today, FCAYS made an edit request asking for the photo’s removal as the page was protected. I contested the edit request as it was unsupported by consensus. As I discussed this over with FCAYS, they became increasingly aggravated at my responses, in which I tried to explain neutrally and non-personally (as far as I can tell) that consensus was not for removing the image. I justified why the image should be kept, and FCAYS continued to question in an increasingly personal and incivil manner. They went on a full rhetorical question spree at the end, with aggressive tone and battleground attacks. In a separate thread, MSGJ rejected the edit request, and FCAYS contested it. Gaijin asked FCAYS to stop repeating their argument for removal, to which FCAYS gave incivil, consensus-disrupting comments à la WP:WIN and to the effect that including the photo is a deliberate misrepresentation by the editors. They were recently the subject of an AE warning for BATTLE and CIVIL and were blocked as part of the sanction 4 days ago, see above. Given this generally disruptive pattern of editing, I request a more severe sanction be imposed. @ChrisGualtieri: That block was made on 7 January 2015. Aside from the first diff I provided for context, the evidence I brought here has all happened since that block expired. --RAN1 (talk) 05:39, 11 January 2015 (UTC) @Sandstein: Though I wish there were a way to date these without doing them by hand, done. --RAN1 (talk) 10:26, 11 January 2015 (UTC) @Sandstein: I fail to see how FCAYS's comments in later diffs like You don't even seem to have numbers on your side, much less a winning argument! (diff 8) and And which part of WP policy tells you that you are free to ignore the stated objections of others as if they simply didn't exist? (diff 7) makes this a problem of content dispute rather than user conduct. The behavioral issue is why I'm filing this request. --RAN1 (talk) 12:00, 11 January 2015 (UTC) @Sandstein: Regarding your concern that FCAYS's comments do not have BLP implications, I've added a 9th FCAYS diff showing victimization in violation of BLP. --RAN1 (talk) 17:38, 11 January 2015 (UTC) I apologize for that characterization and I've struck it, and I also don't think we should use that image. Centrify (f / k / a FCAYS) (talk) (contribs) 18:02, 11 January 2015 (UTC) Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Discussion concerning Factchecker atyourservice Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by Factchecker atyourservice It appears this is going to be closed without action so I'm not going to comment at length but I would like to point out that Diff #2 above is presented with an egregiously misleading description. I suggested the "compromise" of using the "graduation photo" image that was not disputed by any editors. Although it was not the preferred image for Gaijin, Ran, and Dyrnych, they had all said they didn't object to using it. Meanwhile, there were a number of objections against the "headphones" photo. One photo had support and no objections, the other photo had support and multiple objections. I didn't think it was much of a stretch to suggest the non-disputed photo and call it a "compromise". But RAN's summary for Diff#2 was this: "in response to Gaijin42, insists that RFC would not be cut short by agreeing to use non-disputed image." He makes it sound like I was offered a compromise but rejected it! But that's sort of the opposite of how I understood the events to be unfolding. Puzzling. Centrify (f / k / a FCAYS) (talk) (contribs) 15:41, 11 January 2015 (UTC) Statement by ChrisGualtieri Pardon me, but action was already taken on this matter. He was blocked for the issue by @Callanecc:. Given the circumstances, namely that the subject was already punished, this seems inappropriate. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 05:11, 11 January 2015 (UTC) Statement by (username) Result concerning Factchecker atyourservice This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. ~~Please date all diffs submitted as evidence, or I'm not looking at them, sorry. Sandstein 10:04, 11 January 2015 (UTC)~~ Thanks. This doesn't look actionable to me. The submitted diffs are all part of a talk page discussion and are nowere near a WP:BLP violation. While they do come across as more forceful and less collegial in tone that would be ideal, they focus on the disputed content rather than on the other editor(s), and are therefore, in my view, by far not sanctionable misconduct. The submitter should be reminded that arbitration enforcement is only to be used for genuine conduct problems and not for trying to force a resolution of a content dispute by way of administrative process. Sandstein 10:33, 11 January 2015 (UTC) RAN1, I continue not to see a sanctionable BLP or other conduct problem in the diffs you submit, including the ninth one. Sandstein 17:41, 11 January 2015 (UTC) I agree. This appears to be legitimate, albeit heated, discussion. I don't see how the BLP discretionary sanctions are applicable here. HJ Mitchell \| Penny for your thoughts? 19:01, 11 January 2015 (UTC) This is a second very weak attempt to use AE to win this dispute. RAN1 was one of the few involved in the last case to escape a warning, and he was also the filing party that time. I agree with Sandstein that RAN1 should be reminded that "arbitration enforcement is only to be used for genuine conduct problems and not for trying to force a resolution of a content dispute by way of administrative process". If FCAYS is as much of a problem as some of you believe give him WP:ROPE and it'll be dealt with--Cailil 10:40, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

No enforcement action taken against Factchecker atyourservice; RAN1 reminded of the purpose of AE. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:14, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Factchecker atyourservice

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: RAN1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 02:40, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Factchecker atyourservice (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Footnoted quotes#May 2014 (NEWBLPBAN):

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

- dismisses RFC as illegitimate, initial post airing this disagreement, 20:11. January 6, 2015 (UTC)
- in response to Gaijin42, insists that RFC would not be cut short by agreeing to use non-disputed image. 16:13, January 9, 2015
- attacks Gaijin42 without responding to lack of support for his assertion or otherwise contributing to discussion. 16:53, January 9, 2015 (UTC)
- dismisses RAN1’s argument with rhetorical questions. 22:08, January 10, 2015 (UTC)
- asks RAN1 to clarify analysis. 23:04, January 10, 2015 (UTC)
- after RAN1 clarifies, unproductive comment. 23:32, January 10, 2015 (UTC)
- response to RAN1, aggressive attacks with no contribution to discussion. 00:05, January 11, 2015 (UTC)
- response to Gaijin42, borders incivility and shows battleground mentality. 00:25, January 11, 2015 (UTC)
- FCAYS says then we also need to include the "giant tough guy committing strongarm robbery the day of the shooting" photo, for balance (with regards to Michael Brown). 23:26, January 10, 2015 (UTC)

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

- AE Warning - BATTLE/CIVIL 16:52, December 27, 2014 (UTC)
- AE block for incivility. 01:32, January 7, 2015 (UTC)

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Previously blocked as a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict, see the block log linked to above.
Previously given a discretionary sanction for conduct in the area of conflict on 27 December, 2014 by Cailil (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA).
Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Recently, a dispute has come up on Talk:Shooting of Michael Brown about whether a photo of Michael Brown should be used and which one. An RFC was started, but FCAYS disputed its validity on the grounds that BLP overrides consensus. As this argument was dismissed, they became somewhat confrontational, and insisted with an almost personal attack that consensus be unconsidered on the basis of a BLP violation that no other editor supported. Today, FCAYS made an edit request asking for the photo’s removal as the page was protected. I contested the edit request as it was unsupported by consensus. As I discussed this over with FCAYS, they became increasingly aggravated at my responses, in which I tried to explain neutrally and non-personally (as far as I can tell) that consensus was not for removing the image. I justified why the image should be kept, and FCAYS continued to question in an increasingly personal and incivil manner. They went on a full rhetorical question spree at the end, with aggressive tone and battleground attacks. In a separate thread, MSGJ rejected the edit request, and FCAYS contested it. Gaijin asked FCAYS to stop repeating their argument for removal, to which FCAYS gave incivil, consensus-disrupting comments à la WP:WIN and to the effect that including the photo is a deliberate misrepresentation by the editors. They were recently the subject of an AE warning for BATTLE and CIVIL and were blocked as part of the sanction 4 days ago, see above. Given this generally disruptive pattern of editing, I request a more severe sanction be imposed.

@ChrisGualtieri: That block was made on 7 January 2015. Aside from the first diff I provided for context, the evidence I brought here has all happened since that block expired. --RAN1 (talk) 05:39, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

@Sandstein: Though I wish there were a way to date these without doing them by hand, done. --RAN1 (talk) 10:26, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

@Sandstein: I fail to see how FCAYS's comments in later diffs like You don't even seem to have numbers on your side, much less a winning argument! (diff 8) and And which part of WP policy tells you that you are free to ignore the stated objections of others as if they simply didn't exist? (diff 7) makes this a problem of content dispute rather than user conduct. The behavioral issue is why I'm filing this request. --RAN1 (talk) 12:00, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

@Sandstein: Regarding your concern that FCAYS's comments do not have BLP implications, I've added a 9th FCAYS diff showing victimization in violation of BLP. --RAN1 (talk) 17:38, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

I apologize for that characterization and I've struck it, and I also don't think we should use that image. Centrify (f / k / a FCAYS) (talk) (contribs) 18:02, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning Factchecker atyourservice

Statement by Factchecker atyourservice

It appears this is going to be closed without action so I'm not going to comment at length but I would like to point out that Diff #2 above is presented with an egregiously misleading description.

I suggested the "compromise" of using the "graduation photo" image that was not disputed by any editors. Although it was not the preferred image for Gaijin, Ran, and Dyrnych, they had all said they didn't object to using it. Meanwhile, there were a number of objections against the "headphones" photo. One photo had support and no objections, the other photo had support and multiple objections. I didn't think it was much of a stretch to suggest the non-disputed photo and call it a "compromise".

But RAN's summary for Diff#2 was this: "in response to Gaijin42, insists that RFC would not be cut short by agreeing to use non-disputed image."

He makes it sound like I was offered a compromise but rejected it! But that's sort of the opposite of how I understood the events to be unfolding. Puzzling. Centrify (f / k / a FCAYS) (talk) (contribs) 15:41, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by ChrisGualtieri

Pardon me, but action was already taken on this matter. He was blocked for the issue by @Callanecc:. Given the circumstances, namely that the subject was already punished, this seems inappropriate. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 05:11, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Factchecker atyourservice

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

~~Please date all diffs submitted as evidence, or I'm not looking at them, sorry. Sandstein 10:04, 11 January 2015 (UTC)~~ Thanks. This doesn't look actionable to me. The submitted diffs are all part of a talk page discussion and are nowere near a WP:BLP violation. While they do come across as more forceful and less collegial in tone that would be ideal, they focus on the disputed content rather than on the other editor(s), and are therefore, in my view, by far not sanctionable misconduct. The submitter should be reminded that arbitration enforcement is only to be used for genuine conduct problems and not for trying to force a resolution of a content dispute by way of administrative process. Sandstein 10:33, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

RAN1, I continue not to see a sanctionable BLP or other conduct problem in the diffs you submit, including the ninth one. Sandstein 17:41, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

I agree. This appears to be legitimate, albeit heated, discussion. I don't see how the BLP discretionary sanctions are applicable here. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:01, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

This is a second very weak attempt to use AE to win this dispute. RAN1 was one of the few involved in the last case to escape a warning, and he was also the filing party that time. I agree with Sandstein that RAN1 should be reminded that "arbitration enforcement is only to be used for genuine conduct problems and not for trying to force a resolution of a content dispute by way of administrative process". If FCAYS is as much of a problem as some of you believe give him WP:ROPE and it'll be dealt with--Cailil 10:40, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Davidbena

No 1RR violation but Davidbena blocked 24 hours for a personal attack. HJ Mitchell \| Penny for your thoughts? 22:51, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning Davidbena User who is submitting this request for enforcement Huldra (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:25, 11 January 2015 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Davidbena (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log Sanction or remedy to be enforced : WP:ARBPIA -- general 1RR restriction Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 14:33, 11 January 2015 rm "Palestinian" 22:47, 11 January 2015 rm "Palestinian" , thus violating 1RR per ARBPIA If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts) Notice about ARBIA in September 2014, by NeilN Additional comments by editor filing complaint He has been given opportunity to self-revert, but declines to do so. Huldra (talk) 23:25, 11 January 2015 (UTC) User:Number 57: His first edit was a revert of the long-standing text, removing the word "Palestinian". As you correctly points out: it had been in the article since the start. Davidbena has now removed it twice, in one day. Huldra (talk) 23:40, 11 January 2015 (UTC) User talk:HJ Mitchell: I read the first diff as a revert of long-standing text, a partial revert from this edit. 2nd diff, the same. Huldra (talk) 19:07, 12 January 2015 (UTC) Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested diff Discussion concerning Davidbena Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by Davidbena User:Huldra seems to be pursuing a political agenda bent on defaming Israel by its action in the winter of 1948, when I have insisted that she remain neutral, and not to politicize the situation. Specifically, User:Huldra prefers to mention Bayt Nattif of October 1948 as a "Palestinian-Arab village," when I propose that it is far better to simply write "Arab village," since in October of 1948 Bayt Nattif was then under the direct governance of the new government of Israel, based on the partition plan relegated to Israeli and Jordanian authorities by the dissolved British Mandate. To suggest that Bayt Nattif was, in October of 1948, a "Palestinian-Arab village" is to suggest a sovereign governmental body by the name of Palestine given charge over the village's affairs when it was actually the new State of Israel that had been given charge over its affairs. To avoid this seemingly contentious issue, I have suggested keeping the introductory lines neutral in accordance with WP policy of WP:NPOV and by simply writing "Arab village." (For a greater summary, see Bayt Nattif's Talk Page (bottom section) Davidbena (talk) 23:52, 11 January 2015 (UTC) Question: What is the proper way of seeking professional advice from experienced editors, without abrogating the WP guidelines which look with disdain on "canvassing"? Honestly, how can I go about seeking professional counsel and advice? If anyone notes my own words, I have actually called out for advice, rather than asking editors to side with me in this dispute. Davidbena (talk) 03:44, 12 January 2015 (UTC) User:HJ Mitchell, as far as I'm concerned, the issue has already been resolved. As for the use of the words "lands owned by the Palestinian-Arab village of Bayt Nattif," we have often seen the word "Palestinian" used in our generation, especially by Arab writers, in the context of the overall Israeli-Palestinian issue, i.e. with a political connotation. I was simply asking the editor to avoid this word because of its "political" connotation. I have since allowed her edit to stand. Be well.Davidbena (talk) 17:04, 12 January 2015 (UTC) Statement by Number 57 Not sure whether I am uninvolved, as I have been editing related articles, but as far as I can see, the first edit is not a revert of any other edit (the very first version used the phrase in question), so Davidbena has only actually reverted once. Number 5 7 23:30, 11 January 2015 (UTC) @Huldra: I think you misunderstand the concept of a revert. A revert is reverting some or all of a previous edit to the former version. If an edit is doing something for the first time (which the first edit here is), then it cannot be defined as a revert. Number 5 7 23:52, 11 January 2015 (UTC) @Zero0000: Done, but it shouldn't detract from the fact that this isn't a 1RR violation. Number 5 7 09:32, 12 January 2015 (UTC) Statement by Zero0000 Davidbena has also been violating WP:CANVASS over the same issue: . Zero 00:50, 12 January 2015 (UTC) @Number 57:, I wasn't going to complain about you being "involved" until I noticed that just yesterday you yourself made an edit almost the same as the one being debated here. Kindly move yourself out of the administrators' section. Zero 01:55, 12 January 2015 (UTC) Statement by Nishidani No violation, but, David, (you asked for advice), your reasoning is deeply defective, and you are trying to establish a precedent that would affect several hundred wiki pages. When the impact of an edit is so far-reaching, it requires consensus. Your reasoning is defective because the verb 'to be' (was) describes a continuous state. It was a Palestinian (under the British Mandate for Palestine) Arab village. The argument that, once its inhabitants were driven out by a conquering Israeli army it became overnight therefore 'governed' by Israel and therefore became 'Arab' not 'Palestinian', is meaningless. The village was blown up (partially on the suspicion that some of the villagers had destroyed a Palmach relief convoy to the Etzion Bloc earlier in January that year), and nothing remained to be 'governed'. The article is not about the village on 23 October, 1948, but the historic village that existed until the Palmach brigade blew it to pieces. It is customary to define such places as Palestinian Arab on Misplaced Pages, 'Arab' satisfying an Israeli POV that Palestinians did not exist, and 'Palestinian' to satisfy Palestinian traditions that they did exist before 1948/1967. Nishidani (talk) 17:16, 12 January 2015 (UTC) Statement by (username) Result concerning Davidbena This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. This is a sloppily filed report because it does not tell us which rule of conduct the removal of the word "Palestinian" is supposed to have violated or which remedy is to be enforced. If not promptly amended, this request may be closed without action. Sandstein 10:36, 12 January 2015 (UTC) @Huldra: Unless the first edit was a revert of a particular edit, it does not count as a revert for the purposes of enforcing the 1RR. @Davidbena: Please either provide diffs for the allegation that Huldra is pursuing a political agenda bent on defaming Israel by its action in the winter of 1948 or strike it. If you do neither, you risk being sanctioned for a personal attack. HJ Mitchell \| Penny for your thoughts? 16:24, 12 January 2015 (UTC) This doesn't look actionable to me as submitted. As mentioned above, there's no evidence that the first edit was a revert, and that Davidbena was even aware of the 1RR rule in particular (the discretionary sanctions notice does not mention it). Leaving this open until the personal attack issue mentioned above is resolved. In response to Davidbena, we're all volunteers here, so there's nobody around to give you professional advice. As to other advice, you might ask on community fora such as WP:VP. Sandstein 16:48, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

No 1RR violation but Davidbena blocked 24 hours for a personal attack. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:51, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Request concerning Davidbena

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: Huldra (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 23:25, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: Davidbena (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: : WP:ARBPIA -- general 1RR restriction

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

14:33, 11 January 2015 rm "Palestinian"
22:47, 11 January 2015 rm "Palestinian" , thus violating 1RR per ARBPIA

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts): Notice about ARBIA in September 2014, by NeilN

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

He has been given opportunity to self-revert, but declines to do so. Huldra (talk) 23:25, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
User:Number 57: His first edit was a revert of the long-standing text, removing the word "Palestinian". As you correctly points out: it had been in the article since the start. Davidbena has now removed it twice, in one day. Huldra (talk) 23:40, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
User talk:HJ Mitchell: I read the first diff as a revert of long-standing text, a partial revert from this edit. 2nd diff, the same. Huldra (talk) 19:07, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

diff

Discussion concerning Davidbena

Statement by Davidbena

User:Huldra seems to be pursuing a political agenda bent on defaming Israel by its action in the winter of 1948, when I have insisted that she remain neutral, and not to politicize the situation. Specifically, User:Huldra prefers to mention Bayt Nattif of October 1948 as a "Palestinian-Arab village," when I propose that it is far better to simply write "Arab village," since in October of 1948 Bayt Nattif was then under the direct governance of the new government of Israel, based on the partition plan relegated to Israeli and Jordanian authorities by the dissolved British Mandate. To suggest that Bayt Nattif was, in October of 1948, a "Palestinian-Arab village" is to suggest a sovereign governmental body by the name of Palestine given charge over the village's affairs when it was actually the new State of Israel that had been given charge over its affairs. To avoid this seemingly contentious issue, I have suggested keeping the introductory lines neutral in accordance with WP policy of WP:NPOV and by simply writing "Arab village." (For a greater summary, see Bayt Nattif's Talk Page (bottom section) Davidbena (talk) 23:52, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

Question: What is the proper way of seeking professional advice from experienced editors, without abrogating the WP guidelines which look with disdain on "canvassing"? Honestly, how can I go about seeking professional counsel and advice? If anyone notes my own words, I have actually called out for advice, rather than asking editors to side with me in this dispute. Davidbena (talk) 03:44, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

User:HJ Mitchell, as far as I'm concerned, the issue has already been resolved. As for the use of the words "lands owned by the Palestinian-Arab village of Bayt Nattif," we have often seen the word "Palestinian" used in our generation, especially by Arab writers, in the context of the overall Israeli-Palestinian issue, i.e. with a political connotation. I was simply asking the editor to avoid this word because of its "political" connotation. I have since allowed her edit to stand. Be well.Davidbena (talk) 17:04, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Number 57

Not sure whether I am uninvolved, as I have been editing related articles, but as far as I can see, the first edit is not a revert of any other edit (the very first version used the phrase in question), so Davidbena has only actually reverted once. Number 5 7 23:30, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

@Huldra: I think you misunderstand the concept of a revert. A revert is reverting some or all of a previous edit to the former version. If an edit is doing something for the first time (which the first edit here is), then it cannot be defined as a revert. Number 57 23:52, 11 January 2015 (UTC)
- @Zero0000: Done, but it shouldn't detract from the fact that this isn't a 1RR violation. Number 5 7 09:32, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Zero0000

Davidbena has also been violating WP:CANVASS over the same issue: . Zero 00:50, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

@Number 57:, I wasn't going to complain about you being "involved" until I noticed that just yesterday you yourself made an edit almost the same as the one being debated here. Kindly move yourself out of the administrators' section. Zero 01:55, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Nishidani

No violation, but, David, (you asked for advice), your reasoning is deeply defective, and you are trying to establish a precedent that would affect several hundred wiki pages. When the impact of an edit is so far-reaching, it requires consensus. Your reasoning is defective because the verb 'to be' (was) describes a continuous state. It was a Palestinian (under the British Mandate for Palestine) Arab village. The argument that, once its inhabitants were driven out by a conquering Israeli army it became overnight therefore 'governed' by Israel and therefore became 'Arab' not 'Palestinian', is meaningless. The village was blown up (partially on the suspicion that some of the villagers had destroyed a Palmach relief convoy to the Etzion Bloc earlier in January that year), and nothing remained to be 'governed'. The article is not about the village on 23 October, 1948, but the historic village that existed until the Palmach brigade blew it to pieces. It is customary to define such places as Palestinian Arab on Misplaced Pages, 'Arab' satisfying an Israeli POV that Palestinians did not exist, and 'Palestinian' to satisfy Palestinian traditions that they did exist before 1948/1967. Nishidani (talk) 17:16, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Davidbena

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

This is a sloppily filed report because it does not tell us which rule of conduct the removal of the word "Palestinian" is supposed to have violated or which remedy is to be enforced. If not promptly amended, this request may be closed without action. Sandstein 10:36, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

@Huldra: Unless the first edit was a revert of a particular edit, it does not count as a revert for the purposes of enforcing the 1RR. @Davidbena: Please either provide diffs for the allegation that Huldra is pursuing a political agenda bent on defaming Israel by its action in the winter of 1948 or strike it. If you do neither, you risk being sanctioned for a personal attack. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:24, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

This doesn't look actionable to me as submitted. As mentioned above, there's no evidence that the first edit was a revert, and that Davidbena was even aware of the 1RR rule in particular (the discretionary sanctions notice does not mention it). Leaving this open until the personal attack issue mentioned above is resolved. In response to Davidbena, we're all volunteers here, so there's nobody around to give you professional advice. As to other advice, you might ask on community fora such as WP:VP. Sandstein 16:48, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

GodBlessYou2

Request concerning GodBlessYou2

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: I9Q79oL78KiL0QTFHgyc (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 17:27, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: GodBlessYou2 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced: WP:ARBPSCI#Discretionary sanctions :

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

Jan 11 Jan 11 Edit-warring regarding creationism (reinserting preferred content after reverting).
Jan 11 Edit-warring regarding creationism (reinserting preferred content after an RfC on the talkpage went badly see previous attempt on Dec 28
Jan 9 Jan 9 Edit-warring on a usertalk page to argue about his POV-pushing.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

Gave an alert about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on Dec 30

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Subject of a WP:FTN thread started by the initiator of this request that contains additional discussion: Misplaced Pages:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard#GodBlessYou2. He was notified of this discussion: Jan 6. Please see the usertalk page of the user for more discussions as to the problematic behavior. Believe that a broad topic ban from all religion/science/pseudoscience/creationism related pages is in order.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

diff

Discussion concerning GodBlessYou2

Statement by GodBlessYou2

I will confine my response to the original charges made above according to the diffs cited.

1. Jan 11 Edit-warring regarding creationism.

These edits were related to Fine-tuned Universe. It is not creationism nor classified by WP as such . (See also, categories: at bottom of article.) While critics may like to classify FTU it as creationism, I sincerely question if this article falls under the pseudoscience and fringe science editing restrictions.

Even if I'm wrong on that account, my only edits have been related to adding citations to two books and attempting to add these to the list of ==Further Reading==. Both books are written by astrophysicists who address the fine tuned universe issue in a manner intended to make it accessible to non-scientists with an emphasis on why this hypothesis is compatible with both science and religion. I continue to remain confounded by one or two editor's efforts to block this content. More so because two articles by Stephen M. Barr are elsewhere included in the article under External Links. Why the effort to block my adding a book of his on the subject?

2. Jan 11 Edit-warring regarding creationism.

An RfC by Cposper sought opinions on adding one sentence and one source. Numerous editors agreed the source should only be used in the context of other sources and with attribution. I came to the article in response to this RfC. I drafted a section to show Csposper how to use multiple reliable sources to address the issue in a more balanced way. The RfC did not address my draft and is not binding on it. Check the dates. Most all of the RfC's comments were written before my draft and my draft addresses and incorporates most of the helpful comments. It does not preclude new content that addresses the same issue in a more substantive, balanced way.

3. #Jan 9 The so called Edit-warring on a Jytdog's talk page first, does not fall under the fringe and pseudoscience arbitration rules.

Second, and most importantly, the edit conflict was clearly regarding difference in our understanding of policy guidelines governing the deletion of comments on user talk pages. This was addressed by Doncram in this diff . It is further discussed in my own diff here . Arguably, the confusion was due to Jytdog referring me to Wp:TPO in this form rather than to WP:OWNTALK, because WP:TPO clearly indicates at the very top that comments should not be deleted. The confusion has resulted in efforts to clarify this problem per this discussion on the policy guideline page. In short, this wasn't edit warring. It was a sincere effort to prevent what an editor, whom I perceived as one with a history of deleting valid content, from hiding a record of disruptive behavior on his talk page contrary to policy as I understood it, and was even stated as such in the link he provided to defend his deletion.–GodBlessYou2 (talk) 21:57, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

In summary, every edit in the article I have made has been relevant and well sourced. There wouldn't be any basis for this complaint if the editors making the complaint showed more respect for the good faith contributions of other editors. In general, it is my impression that these articles are subject to a lot of WP:OWN protectionism. Prime example: tag team deletion and talk page equivocations over adding the book by Barrs to the FTU Further Reading list. Seriously?! –GodBlessYou2 (talk) 21:57, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Regarding my proposed new section to the article on the creation evolution controversy, you will see that I have not been editing the article but rather confining myself to the talk page to try go the editors to actually discuss the 14 sources and proposed content I have offered. Instead, there is, what I perceive to be a refusal to recognize that there are any differences between my extensive contribution and the one proposed by Cpsoper. I am sincerely trying to get them to focus on the content, but they are so anxious to shut me out (not very collaborative in the spirit of WP:PRESERVE, in my opinion) that they are ganging up on me both there and here. I believe the process recognizes that consensus can change, especially if an editor like myself goes to the effort to develop a well balanced section that is clearly topic relavant and based on 14 sources covering both sides of the contentious issue. It may not be perfect, but it is something that can be built on using WP:PRESERVE methods. In my view, it is my accusers who should be reprimanded for not making more effort to work with editors to incorporate material. The only reason I came to these pages was because of Cpsoper's RfC which, on investigation, led me to believe his contributions were being rejected without any effort to help him incorporate them per PRESERVE. My mistake was thinking the other editors here would welcome my efforts to help Cpsoper learn how to find and use a wider range of reliable sources, something AndytheGrump said would be needed in his response to the RfC,,. but now he's angry at me for implementing his advice. Go figure.–GodBlessYou2 (talk) 06:46, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Regarding Heimstern Läufer comments below. I strongly object to his classification of thise edits as related to pseudoscience. Most importantly, I object to the assumption that my notification of this policy was sufficient if the scope of pseduoscience is going to be different than that by which the articles are marked.

Clearly, fine-tuned universe theory is not considered pseudoscience by Misplaced Pages categories, the article itself, or by scientists. It is speculation about origins of the universe issue, but that itself does not render it pseudoscience. And what is my "offense" there? Trying to include two books by astrophysicists writing for people interested in the intersection of faith and science in the further reading list, book which delve into depth into the fine tuned universe theory. I continue to be puzzled why I am being prosecuted for attempting to add these sources when clearly it is protectionists who feel they WP:OWN these pages who are hounding out even the most modest edits which support the idea there is no real conflict between science and religion.

Secondly, the confusion regarding the user talk page was due to confusing organization and statements in Policy regarding deletion of comments. It has nothing to do with the psuedoscience discretionary sanctions and should not be considered in any decision.

Third, the article evolution-creation controversy is about the controversy between these camps. Not about the science, or the pseudoscience, properly speaking, as those are addressed in separate articles. It is about the charges and counter charges advocates on both sides make against each other, which may include some science and pseudoscience, but also includes charges of discrimination, which is really political and not the subject of the discretionary sanction being employed against me. My edits on this article are an effort to bring a bit of WP:PRESERVE collaboration to the page to simply support the rather obvious fact that the stated claims and counter claims have been made were clearly done in faith and mostly confined to the talk page. There is no violation of policy.

Finally, your assertion that my edits "are about an attempt to use scientific reasoning to support creationism" is simply false. Show me a pattern of such edits. In fact, I'm not a creationist. I've not argued for creationism. As per the evolution-creation controversy, I have simply dared to acknowledge that there are reliable sources, and numerous wikipedia articles, about the claims made by academics that they are discriminated for questioning the adequacy of evolution and also reliable sources identifying those who have responded to and denied these claims.

Any judgment against me based on the false charge that I am advocating creationism is simply unfair and demonstrates a failure to look carefully at my edits. The real issue, the real reason these complaints have been made against me, is that when I make what I feel are clearly reasonable contribtions and they are shouted down by people with WP:OWN behaviors, I dare to persist instead of being bullied away.. Please do not give the bullies an easy victory based on contributions to pages which don't even properly fit under the discretionary sanctions rule.

I've double checked, and even the evolution-creation controversy page is not marked as being in the category of psuedoscience or fringe science. So the notice regarding discretionary sanctions for these categories should not be applied outside those categories. It is totally unfair to apply topic specific sanctions against editors when the articles are not identified as being within that topic...and properly so....this article is about the controversy between people in these camps, not the actual science or psuedoscientific claims.GodBlessYou2 (talk) 23:07, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Checking all my article contributions you will see that I only made one edit of Creationism and the diff for edit shows I only tagged a request for a citation regarding the claim that there are three kinds of creationism. That was immediately reverted by Dominus Vobisdu without any explanation. That's it. My only other edit to a pseudoscience article was in regard to Extraterrestrial hypothesis both of which simply attempted to clarify the wording in the lead about the lack of any published scientific evidence in favor of ET activity and the U.S. government's official denial that any such evidence exists. Both edits were again reverted by Dominus Vobisdu who appears to claim ownership over articles in which he has some presumed expertise, as a microbiologist and teacher.

In total, in the WP:Category:Pseudoscience, I edited only two articles, with a total of only three attempted edits, all reverted. None of these four edits were pushing religion or confusing pseudoscience with science. I can see no possible way these edits could run me afoul of the psuedoscience discretionary sanctions.

Please reject this baseless charge and rebuke those who have brought it against me.GodBlessYou2 (talk) 04:27, 16 January 2015 (UTC).

Statement by John Carter

Tend to support some sort of ban, indefinite or otherwise. I also tend to think that the topic area could use some more attention. I don't myself see clear evidence, in just a quick review of course, of a separate Criticism of evolutionary theory page, for instance, which I think would be reasonable. Some months ago I picked up a book published by the Jehovah's Witnesses (clearly biased, and nowhere near being a reliable source in and of itself, I know, but it was one of a number of freebies I glommed onto at an academic book giveaway), and there seems to be from the apparently reliable sources it cites a reasonable basis for an article on scientific questions of evolutionary theory, either particular aspects of it or the theory in general. An article like that, or on any number of other related topics, might well be valuable and useful. When I finish my current never-ending effort of developing bibliographies of reference sources, I may well attempt generating a list of articles on this topic in encyclopedic sources, but others are free to do so before then if they so see fit. John Carter (talk) 17:46, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

The main article I indicated does in fact exist, under Objections to evolution, and I am grateful for that information. I still think there may be reason to develop further development of articles in the broad topic area, but that is true of most topics and there is no particular reason to think this one would be more of a priority than others. John Carter (talk) 17:46, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

jps below is probably right. While there is a distinction between "science vs. religion" and "pseudoscience," the bulk of that distinction lies in areas that would probably best be called "philosophy", including perhaps "philosophy of science". The Creation-evolution debate is for the most part, except in some extremist groups, considered closed in the science vs. religion debatae, because, so far as I can tell, most religions have come to the conclusion that creation and evolution are not incompatible. Those groups still postulating "either/or" in this matter in favor of creatiionism are basically dealing with the broad field of "creation science," and so far as I can tell that is counted as part of pseudoscience. Having said that all that, if the AE admins have reservations, I could see maybe going to ARCA again and requesting clarification. John Carter (talk) 15:22, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Adamfinmo

~~I am involved here and I will try to collect some information and post it here along with a more lengthy statement later in the day. --Adam in MO Talk 19:27, 12 January 2015 (UTC)~~

I had intended on adding more here but I think that Andy pretty much has it dead on. Considering this user's behavior at Talk:Creation–evolution controversy and a refusal by them to recognize the consensous reached in the last RFC, I suspect that GBU2 will certainly be considered for a topic ban soon.--Adam in MO Talk 02:36, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Capeo

I'm not great with diffs so hopefully this is sufficient. On Dec 26th another user added this which was quickly reverted. The talk page discussion led to an RFC . Two days into the RFC, with consensus clearly against the inclusion at that point on Dec 28th GBY2 added this section to the article. It was reverted as there was an ongoing RFC covering similar material. On Jan 7 the RFC was closed with consensus against adding such a section On Jan 11 GBY2 readded the section (even bigger this time) against the consensus just a few days old which was again reverted.

Here we have GBY2 edit warring on a user talk page , , , , , until finally stopping after being threatened with a block . This can be chalked up to not understanding talkpage rules but it displays the tendentious attitude in almost all of GBY2's editing.

On Jan 6 in Fine-Tuned Universe GBY2 added two books to further reading , this was reverted. They then tried to add one of the books as a ref , this too is reverted. They add a book back to further reading claiming vandalism this is again reverted, this time by a different user who goes on to add it correctly in the right place. On Jan 11th GBY2 once again tries to add the further reading and yet a different user reverts them. They try to add it yet again and are once more reverted. All the while consensus was also against the inclusion of these books/sources on the talk page yet GBY2 forged ahead regardless.

All of GodBlessYou2's contributions are in the realm of religion, mostly creationism and its offshoots. This mainly started at where they displayed they didn't understand what constituted an independent reliable source in regards to scientific or fringe claims. Capeo (talk) 19:45, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Intelligent design is pseudoscience and the section GBY2 tried to insert both during and after the RFC depended mainly on the "documentary" Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, and reviews of it, as a source.Capeo (talk) 13:23, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

So now not only has GBY2 tried once more to insert the same exact section that has no consensus, as Andy points out below, but they also added this gem to an essay, essentially claiming we're all lazy for not finding their inclusion worthwhile. Capeo (talk) 17:19, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by AndyTheGrump

A further example of GodBlessYou2's refusal to accept consensus at Talk:Creation–evolution controversy - combined with a blatant misrepresentation of demonstrable facts: . GodBlessYou2 writes that "...the only appeal is to a stale RfC. The RfC was about one reference and one proposed sentence." The RfC closed less than a week ago. It mentioned no reference, and made no specific proposal regarding text. This gross misrepresentation, combined with a refusal to accept consensus, suggests to me that at minimum a topic ban is required. Though frankly, given that this refusal to accept consensus seems to be an ongoing issue with this contributor (see this discussion on another topic entirely, where GodBlessYou2's reponse to a clearly-developing consensus was to make the same proposal again, slightly reworded, and insist that it be discussed again) I have to wonder whether we would be better off without such contributions at all. AndyTheGrump (talk) 03:24, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

With regard to 'pseudoscience-relatedness', it is worth noting the specific context of GodBlessYou2's confrontational behaviour at Talk:Creation–evolution controversy - his insistance that the article contain material on the claim (not even generally supported by Creationists), that Creationist scientists have been systematically discriminated against by the scientific establishment. While Creationism itself certainly isn't of itself scientific, or pseudoscientific, the claims made by some Creationists regarding mainstream science (particularly but not exclusively evolution) are certainly seen as pseudoscientific by many (including, it should be noted, the U.S. courts in their rejection of 'Intelligent Design' as legitimate science), and an assertion that such Creationist 'science' is being suppressed would seem to me to fall within the remit of the sanctions. It is, after all, common for proponents of fringe viewpoints to claim a conspiracy to silence them. Using Misplaced Pages to promote such fringe claims amounts to promoting Creationist 'science' - and doing so in a manner that does so not on its scientific merits, but on the basis of a fringe conspiracy theory. A conspiracy theory that amounts to an attack on the legitimacy of science itself. If this doesn't fall within the remit of ArbCom sanctions in relation to pseudoscience, it would seem to me to certainly be covered by more general policies regarding appropriate weight, legitimate sourcing and the rest in the article concerned - and accordingly, if GodBlessYou2 isn't to be sanctioned for his tendentious behaviour at Talk:Creation–evolution controversy here, the matter will need to be resolved elsewhere. And for the record, I would like to suggest that the 'fine-tuned universe' article may also be within the scope of sanctions relating to pseudoscience - and certainly seems to be subject to some systematic POV-pushing to exclude commentary from the scientific mainstream. I'll not offer further evidence on this for now, however, since I've not really studied the subject matter in the depth necessary to entirely disentangle the legitimate debate from what appears on the surface at least to be special pleading based on preconceptions based around religious belief - certainly an article supposedly about a scientific debate seems to use the word 'God' rather a lot. The problem again isn't that religion has something to say about the universe - of course it does, and of course it should - but that particular views developed from a religious viewpoint are being promoted as science in an undue manner. Maybe these views aren't pseudoscience - if only because the scientific mainstream has little settled opinion to contrast them against - but the promotion of specific scientific hypotheses because they accord with a particular religious perspective is certainly undue. AndyTheGrump (talk) 07:15, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

And so it continues. GodBlessYou2 has just posted the same arguments yet again, based on exactly the same falsifications previously used to try to Wikilawyer around a clear and conclusive RfC result. At this stage, I'm beginning to wonder whether this should be taken to ANI, with the intention of discussing an indefinite block on WP:COMPETENCE grounds. This isn't just a failure to drop the stick, it is a failure to actually even respond to adverse commentary at all. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:28, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

And on it goes - with GodBlessYou2 now stating a bogus 'RfC' (clearly lacking even a façade of neutrality) over content already rejected on multiple occasions. I have began to suspect that this tendentiousness is actually intended to bring about sanctions on GodBlessYou2, who will no doubt then consider his claims of a 'conspiracy' proven. AndyTheGrump (talk) 01:17, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

In response to GodBlessYou2's assertion above that " It is totally unfair to apply topic specific sanctions against editors when the articles are not identified as being within that topic", I would point out that the word 'pseudoscience' appears four times in the body of the creation-evolution controversy article, and that the talk page contains a header indicating that discretionary sanctions applied to the page. And perhaps more to the point, I find it impossible to believe that GodBlessYou2 is unaware that the objection from the scientific mainstream to Creationist/'Intelligent Design' arguments against evolution in the debate covered in the article is that in as much as they amount to anything approximating scientific discourse, they are pseudoscience: something that "is not scientific" although "its major proponents try to create the impression that it is scientific". Accordingly, I have to suggest that GodBlessYou2 is engaging in yet more of the tendentious Wikilawyering that brought about this case in the first place. AndyTheGrump (talk) 05:09, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by jps

I echo what AndyTheGrump says about pseudoscience-relatedness, and argue strongly that the edits under discussion here are 100% pseudoscience-related contrary to the attempted demarcation offered by Sandstein below. To give a kind of seminar tutorial in this subject, the National Center for Science Education (I would argue the foremost authority on identifying pseudoscience in the context of the creation-evolution controversy) identifies the precise aspect of the fine-tuning argument which is pseudoscientific here: . This is exactly the same aspect that GodBlessYou2 is pushing. Claiming that the conflict thesis of religion versus science is somehow a separate issue from science versus pseudoscience actually skids dangerously towards adopting the position of intelligent design pseudoscientists make in their Teach the Controversy — another argument that is itself rank pseudoscience promotion. In other words, it is clever propaganda meant to legitimize positions that are pseudoscientific — intending to make them look like a conflict of worldviews rather than pseudoscience. Remember, the discretionary sanctions are on topics that are "broadly construed" precisely because this kind of gaming is so common in contentious areas (of the "I'm not touching you! I'm not touching you!" level of intellectual argumentation). jps (talk) 13:39, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Sławomir Biały

Sandstein's argument seems to be that the edits in question do not fall within the mandate of the PSCI decision, because they concern the culture war rather than science. If that were truly the case, then Sandstein's argument would be quite convincing. However, it does not seem to me that the edits in question do concern the culture wars per se. Rather, they concern the Creationist claim (as advanced by one particular piece of unreliable propaganda) of exclusion the scientific process because, they allege, their "scientific" work is censored by the establishment. This is not a statement about religious belief versus science, but specifically that the Creationist agenda of "questioning evolutionary theory" (in the style of Teach the controversy) are legitimately scientific. For example, from , "This consensus is so embedded in academia that some critics believe it has created a chilling effect on scientists who might raise questions regarding the adequacy of evolutionary theory." Sławomir Biały (talk) 14:28, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Result concerning GodBlessYou2

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

Three diffs of three different edits aren't evidence of edit-warring. We'd need dated diffs of each and every edit making up the edit war for that. This report may be quickly shelved if the evidence is not supplemented accordingly. Sandstein 18:04, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Ok, there's some evidence now of confrontative, tendentious editing. But can somebody explain how this is in scope of the sanctions? After all, evolution and the "fine-tuned universe" are not fringe science, and as far as I know the objections to evolution are essentially religious, not scientific (or even pseudoscientific) in nature and motivation. So where's the pseudoscience-relatedness in all of this? Sandstein 06:13, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

AndyTheGrump, I understand that there are forms of creationism that are portrayed as scientific, such as creation science, and these are probably pseudoscience and subject to sanctions. But the edits at issue here are not related to such "religion in the form of science" topics, but rather they appear to be related to the "religion versus science" debate that is at the core of the cultural controversies related to evolution, and that is not a topic covered by discretionary sanctions. So, unless other admins see something I don't, I'm of the view that this conduct is not within the scope of discretionary sanctions. Sandstein 09:38, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

In agreement with AndyTheGrump and jps, and contra Sandstein, I view these edits as falling into the area of pseudoscience (excluding the talk page edit warring ones, which appear to be based on a misunderstanding of policy and for which DS seem like the wrong tool). The edits, from what I can see, are about an attempt to use scientific reasoning to support creationism, thus making it fall under the topic of pseudoscience. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 12:26, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

You may well be right - distinguishing the cultural and religious issues from the scientific ones is tricky here, I think, and I'd prefer to be cautious - but if you think that this is within the scope of the sanctions, I leave it to you to determine which action, if any, is appropriate. Sandstein 17:42, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by AmirSurfLera

The appeal is declined. HJ Mitchell \| Penny for your thoughts? 21:28, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
} Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED). Appealing user AmirSurfLera (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Sanction being appealed Topic ban from the subject of Arab-Israeli conflict, imposed at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive152#Sean.hoyland Administrator imposing the sanction Lord Roem (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) Notification of that administrator Statement by AmirSurfLera Hi. Six months have passed since the imposition of my topic ban. I was punished for half a year and I respected that decision. I was wondering if now someone could lift my ban, please. I promise I won't break 1RR again and I'll seek consensus before making controversial edits. I really want to contribute to this beautiful encyclopedia in a correct manner. I apologize for the incoveniences I may have caused. Thanks a lot! I know nothing about other topics. I avoided editing to respect the ban. I was patient. Nobody explained me that I had to make a good record on other topics. Can you give me a second chance? I'll prove my good faith in the Arab-Israeli area. I think I have the same right to edit as other users who focus exclusively on one topic.--AmirSurfLera (talk) 18:16, 12 January 2015 (UTC) Statement by Lord Roem Statement by (involved editor 1) Statement by (involved editor 2) Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by AmirSurfLera Result of the appeal by AmirSurfLera This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. User:AmirSurfLera, your topic ban was imposed in an AE that closed on 8 July 2014. Since that time you've made practically no edits to Misplaced Pages. It is often asserted that you can't 'age out' of a ban -- instead, you should be trying to establish a record of good editing that will show the ban is no longer needed. Lacking any such record, I would oppose lifting the ban. EdJohnston (talk) 18:03, 12 January 2015 (UTC) I agree. I'd support lifting the ban only after seeing a substantial record of problem-free editing in other topic areas. Otherwise I'd have to think you're a single-purpose account, and that is not something this topic area needs more of. Sandstein 18:07, 12 January 2015 (UTC) I concur with my colleagues. The whole point of topic bans is to allow an editor who gets into trouble in one topic area to continue editing in unrelated topic areas in order to avoid the previous problems and possibly for the editor to rehabilitate their reputation to the extent that we can be comfortable in allowing them back into the topic area in question. HJ Mitchell \| Penny for your thoughts? 22:58, 12 January 2015 (UTC) I agree, six months is a good period of time to wait, however during that six months you need to show that you can edit constructively and collaboratively in other areas. @AmirSurfLera: if you're looking for things to do, have a look at Misplaced Pages:Cleanup and Misplaced Pages:Maintenance. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 04:39, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

The appeal is declined. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 21:28, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

}

Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.

To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).

Appealing user: AmirSurfLera (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction being appealed: Topic ban from the subject of Arab-Israeli conflict, imposed at

Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive152#Sean.hoyland

Administrator imposing the sanction: Lord Roem (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA)

Notification of that administrator

Statement by AmirSurfLera

Hi. Six months have passed since the imposition of my topic ban. I was punished for half a year and I respected that decision. I was wondering if now someone could lift my ban, please. I promise I won't break 1RR again and I'll seek consensus before making controversial edits. I really want to contribute to this beautiful encyclopedia in a correct manner. I apologize for the incoveniences I may have caused. Thanks a lot!

I know nothing about other topics. I avoided editing to respect the ban. I was patient. Nobody explained me that I had to make a good record on other topics. Can you give me a second chance? I'll prove my good faith in the Arab-Israeli area. I think I have the same right to edit as other users who focus exclusively on one topic.--AmirSurfLera (talk) 18:16, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Lord Roem

Statement by (involved editor 1)

Statement by (involved editor 2)

Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by AmirSurfLera

Result of the appeal by AmirSurfLera

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

User:AmirSurfLera, your topic ban was imposed in an AE that closed on 8 July 2014. Since that time you've made practically no edits to Misplaced Pages. It is often asserted that you can't 'age out' of a ban -- instead, you should be trying to establish a record of good editing that will show the ban is no longer needed. Lacking any such record, I would oppose lifting the ban. EdJohnston (talk) 18:03, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
I agree. I'd support lifting the ban only after seeing a substantial record of problem-free editing in other topic areas. Otherwise I'd have to think you're a single-purpose account, and that is not something this topic area needs more of. Sandstein 18:07, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
I concur with my colleagues. The whole point of topic bans is to allow an editor who gets into trouble in one topic area to continue editing in unrelated topic areas in order to avoid the previous problems and possibly for the editor to rehabilitate their reputation to the extent that we can be comfortable in allowing them back into the topic area in question. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:58, 12 January 2015 (UTC)
I agree, six months is a good period of time to wait, however during that six months you need to show that you can edit constructively and collaboratively in other areas. @AmirSurfLera: if you're looking for things to do, have a look at Misplaced Pages:Cleanup and Misplaced Pages:Maintenance. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 04:39, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

JzG

Request concerning JzG

User who is submitting this request for enforcement: A1candidate (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 01:37, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested: JzG (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

12:45, 8 January 2015 - Violates WP:NPA by calling me an "acupuncture advocate"
14:08, 8 January 2015 - Violates WP:NPA by stating in the edit summary "go away, stupid person"
10:36, 9 January 2015 - Violates WP:NPA by stating "and now you look a bit silly"
17:02, 9 January 2015 Violates WP:NEWCOMER by accusing a new editor of being "a pertennial gadfly with an axe to grind"
13:43, 11 January 2015 Violates WP:CIVIL by stating "how the fuck are we supposed to control POV-pushing?"
00:47, 14 January 2015 Violates WP:NPA by stating "you were the problem then, and it sounds very much as if you still are"
08:33, 15 January 2015 Violates WP:NPA by stating "you are in a minority of one, and clearly obsessed with this particular article"
19:17, 15 January 2015 Violates WP:CIVIL by stating "of all the low-lifes in the world, the cancer quack is probably the worst" and "he is a perfect example of crank magnetism at work"
23:20, 15 January 2015 Violates WP:NEWCOMER by stating "given your extremely limited editing history, I am inclined to dismiss your concern"
23:29, 15 January 2015 Violates WP:NPA by calling me "an advocate of quackery and fringe ideas"

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

11 January 2015‎ - User:HJ Mitchell warned him to comment on content, not on contributors, and this warning was to be "logged as a discretionary sanction"

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

8 January 2015 - Alerted about discretionary sanctions regarding pseudoscience and fringe science
12 January 2015 - Alerted about discretionary sanctions regarding complementary and alternative medicine

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

01:36, 16 January 2015

Discussion concerning JzG

Statement by JzG

Statement by Gaijin42

The diffs that predate the 11th are prior to the warning, and the most severe (stupid person) was already dealt with at the previous AE that just closed.

In diff #6 the OP accuses Guy of WP:WRONGVERSION and threatens to take him to ANI, Guy responding on his own talk page that he thinks the OP is a problem editor seems pretty justified
#8 is not a civility issue at all, he is clearly talking about the subject of the article G._Edward_Griffin who is indeed a well known crank.

This seems like editors that didn't like the previous result trying to take two bites at the apple, but JzG could certainly tone it down a bit, while still holding the line against the quackery. Gaijin42 (talk) 02:37, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by Dominus Vobisdu

There is a WP:GAMING tactic currently being used by several fringe promoters on alternative medicine articles to provoke other editors into reacting and then calling them out for being uncivil. This complaint is a good example of trying to eliminate opposition to fringe promotion. I myself stopped editing altogether for several months because of my disgust at this phenomenon. I believe that boomerang applies, and that the OP should be topic banned from all articles related to medicine, including alternative medicine and related topics, broadly construed. This has become such a serious problem that alternative medicine articles are now covered by discretionary sanctions because fringe promoters tried to evade discretionary sanctions related to pseudoscience topics. This particular editor has been tendentious and disruptive, and pushing pro-fringe material backed up by grossly unreliable sources. Civil POV pushing is an apt description of his behavior. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 06:22, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning JzG

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

The quality of the diffs provided, when examined in context, suggest that A1candidate is a ripe candidate for a boomerang. WP:AE is not meant to be used by a civil-but-tireless POV-pusher to try to eliminate editors who seem to have a much firmer grasp of WP:NPOV, WP:WEIGHT, and WP:MEDRS. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 02:30, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Draft motion for establishing a central DS log

The Committee is inclined towards establishing a central log for discretionary sanctions and would welcome comments and suggestions.

Draft motion establishing a central log for discretionary sanctions

Establishment of a central log

A central log ("log") of all sanctions placed under the discretionary sanctions procedure is to be established by the Arbitration clerks on a page designated for that purpose (Misplaced Pages:Arbitration Committee/Discretionary sanctions/Log). The log transcludes annual log sub-pages (e.g. , ) in reverse chronological order, with the sub-pages arranged by topic, then by month within each topic. An annual log sub-page may be courtesy blanked once five calendar years have elapsed since the date of the imposition of the last sanction recorded on it. Notifications and warnings issued prior to the introduction of the current procedure on 3 May 2014 are not sanctions and remain on the individual case page logs.

Amendments to the discretionary sanctions procedure

1. Additional section to be added

The "Establishment of a central log" text above is to be added to the foot of procedure page, with a heading of "Motion <date>", with the date being the date of enactment.

2, The "Authorisation" section is amended with the following addition:

"Where there is a conflict between any individual provision authorising standard discretionary sanctions for an area of conflict and any provision in the standard procedure, the provision in the standard procedure will control."

3. The "Guidance for editors" section is amended with the following addition:

"The availability of discretionary sanctions is not intended to prevent free and candid discussion, but sanctions can be imposed if an editor severely or persistently disrupts discussion."

4. The "Alerts" subsection is amended with the following addition:

"An editor who has an unexpired alert in one area under discretionary sanctions may be sanctioned for edits in another separate but related topic, also under discretionary sanctions, provided the nature, or the content, of the edits in the two topics are similar."

5. The "Logging" subsection is amended with the following replacements:

Replace: "All sanctions and page restrictions must be logged on the pages specified for the purpose in the authorising motion or decision."

With: "All sanctions and page restrictions must be logged on the central log, currently /Log."

Replace: "The log location may not be changed without the consent of the committee."

With: "The log location may not be changed without the explicit consent of the committee."

For the Committee, Roger Davies 09:45, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

Cross-posted by Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 05:25, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

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