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Seventh Day Adventist Church of Tonga

Seventh Day Adventist Church of Tonga (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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This article is ostensibly trivia regarding observance of the sabbath relative to the International Date Line. Jeffro77 (talk) 23:01, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

• Strong delete I know a LOT about this specific issue and this article is pretty much an attack job and utter nonsense. Legacypac (talk) 06:26, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
• Keep. A lot of reliable sources are available, if one simply Googles the title for news and books. Adding "ethnography OR anthropology OR study OR studies" to the search field eliminates most of the non-scholarly hits. I agree that the present article has problems, but those should be addressed by editing - e.g.(reduction to a stub) - rather than deletion. is a 09:33, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Really? The 'Google test'? For a start, that's not a reliable method for determining notability. Secondly, the most prominent results are from SDA sites, which are primary sources and not sufficient to establish notability. It is not sufficient for sources simply to indicate that there are SDAs in Tonga to warrant an article.--Jeffro77 (talk) 10:25, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, really. Did you add the string I suggested? Do you have a history of Googling SDA sites that skewed your results? is a 10:31, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes. And no (were you hoping I did?). I didn't notice any stand-out sites that appear especially suitable.--Jeffro77 (talk) 10:39, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

You could not find 2 academic sources from Google? Wow!

Bibliographies (also a chapter in ). Discussions in . Update: Another bibliography

You seem to have a lot of anti-religion stuff on your user page. Could you point to an AfD discussion where you wanted to keep an article on a new religious movement? is a 10:46, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Three userboxes about atheism among several dozen userboxes unrelated to religion is hardly "a lot of anti-religion stuff", but nice ad hominem.--Jeffro77 (talk) 10:52, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

The links you posted don't indicate anything more than passing mention of SDAs in Tonga. Only one is specifically about SDAs in the Pacific; the other two aren't specifically about religion at all.--Jeffro77 (talk) 11:00, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

So now you wish to change your vote from "delete" to merge/rename to "SDA in the Pacific"? is a 11:08, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

I never said anything remotely like that.--Jeffro77 (talk) 12:59, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

The usable content is already present at Religion in Tonga; I have no objection to redirecting to that article.--Jeffro77 (talk) 13:05, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

• Keep. The nominator should read WP:BEFORE. A quick search shows various books and articles that discuss the subject in some depth, for example
  • Elizabeth Colson (2006). Tonga Religious Life in the Twentieth Century. African Books Collective. ISBN 978-9982-24-045-1. and
  • Dennis Steley (April 1988). "A Note on Seventh-Day Adventist Sources for the Pacific". The Journal of Pacific History: 102–105.

The subject is clearly notable, regardless of the quality of the article as it stands. Aymatth2 (talk) 13:36, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Neither of those sources is specifically about SDAs in Tonga. The first is certainly a suitable sources for Religion in Tonga; the available abstract on which the claim about the second source is based mentions Kiribati, Papua New Guinea, Solomon Islands, Rarotonga (part of the Cook Islands), Tuvalu and Vanuatu, but does not mention Tonga.--Jeffro77 (talk) 03:44, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Steley discusses the Adventist Koe Babitaiso (Tongan language pamphlet) and Talafekau Mooni (Tongan language monthly magazine). Others sources would include Garrett, John (1997). Where Nets Were Cast: Christianity in Oceania Since World War II. ISBN 978-982-02-0121-7. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help), Lal, Brij V.; Fortune, Kate (2000). The Pacific Islands: An Encyclopedia. University of Hawaii Press. ISBN 978-0-8248-2265-1. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help), Morton, Helen; Lee, Helen Morton (1996). Becoming Tongan: An Ethnography of Childhood. University of Hawaii Press. ISBN 978-0-8248-1795-4. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help), Finau, Makisi; Ieuti, Teeruro; Langi, Jione (1992). Island Churches: Challenge and Change. ISBN 978-982-02-0077-7. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help), Garrett, John (1992). Footsteps in the Sea: Christianity in Oceania to World War II. ISBN 978-982-02-0068-5. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help) and so on. Much has been written about the Adventists in Tonga, as one would expect. The nominator would be better employed expanding the article from the many available sources. Aymatth2 (talk) 13:12, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

All good sources for Religion in Tonga.--Jeffro77 (talk) 13:18, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

@Jeffro77: may we take it that you plan to expand Religion in Tonga? Or Adventist Mission? Or both? Aymatth2 (talk) 14:02, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

My guess is that the closing administrator can see what is happening. Perhaps other editors will look at this discussion or the article and try to help. is a 14:56, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

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