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Gallery issues

The gallery should reasonably include only motives of informative, cultural or historic value. Three insignificant contemporary women and cherry-picked Albanian school children have no place and only serve some racial agenda to prove the "whiteness" of Albanians. 90.230.57.190 (talk) 00:06, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

What's your proposal. What pics would you include and exclude? --Perkohesisht ai i vjetri (talk) 00:41, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Pictures of cultural, historic or informative value. I don't see how random school children or young women would fit that criteria. Picture the Germans article featuring some random German kids and photos of ordinary German women intercepted in the street. This is an encyclopedic article and not some area for mingle photos. Albanians wearing national costumes or participating in some form of national ceremony and etc. is a completely different story. 90.230.57.190 (talk) 01:13, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Also, it is quite apparent that the school children photo has some "racial agenda" to it. All of the seven kids are fair-haired! Being part Albanian I can tell you that blondness is far less common than that. It sends a weird message. Not all Germans are blond and blue eyed either. 90.230.57.190 (talk) 01:47, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

The boy has dark features, whereas the girls are fair. I have been in Northern Albania many times, and these children have typical Albanian faces. As I explained earlier, the uniforms are mandatory only for girls in primary schools in Albania and the white decorations are not the same, they have different prices, so they may be different. The story that the picture is from somewhere else is baloney: the children can't be but Albanian, unless someone has a source that those uniforms are in some other country. I brought a source that has a pic of a student with a uniform similar to that of the other girls. And if national costumes are ok, why wouldn't typical school uniforms be the same thing? Now that I think of it, I believe that in Russia, there may be similar uniforms. Anyway I don't understand why there is so much commotion that the Albanians are blond. Northern Albanians in the Alps, actually, usually are! If you want to bring a picture of southern Albanians, be free to do it (but be careful that there are some blonde children there as well, please feel free to exclude them). I don't understand so much commotion for the gallery, when there is a long article to edit. If you have anything to change, especially improve, in the article, please feel free to do it. --Perkohesisht ai i vjetri (talk) 02:21, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

There is no commotion here as far as I am concerned, but you cannot seriously argue that blondness is a common feature in Albania or the Balkans. Only a minor fraction of the Albanian population is blond or fair. Sporting seven blond kids huddled together (yes the boy is fair too) is really exceptional. I can only assume that some concerned party is hell bent on proving that Albanians too can be blond. Such sentiments are however highly non-encyclopedic. If we are necessarily to demonstrate what Albanian kids typically look like let us at least use a photo that reflects the actual diversity out there. The current photo brings to mind how racial stereotypes of "Aryans" were promoted in Nazi Germany. Also, national costumes and etc. are ethnic features whereas school uniforms aren't. To my understanding this article is supposed to cover the Albanian ethnic group and not people which are Albanians only by citizenship. That is the conventional approach to ethnographic articles on Misplaced Pages, or else the Germans article could have tons of pictures of German Turkish "gastarbeiter" immigrants and what not. 90.230.57.190 (talk) 03:13, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

As you know, Perkohesisht ai i vjetri, I've already had a mouthful to say on the subject of the gallery, fairly much in the same vein as 90.230.57.190, to be found in the collapsed in the Sources and Gallery sections above. Both the photo of the children and the three unknown ladies in contemporary clothing are uninformative. I was prepared to tolerate the use of both photos, but avoiding warring is by no means a reflection of my stance on the use of gratuitous images. Invoking WP:Gallery. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:00, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

I doubt "Perkohesisht ai i vjetri" can present a valid objection, therefore I am removing those two pictures. 90.230.57.190 (talk) 22:56, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

I agree that picture of children should be removed because it is wrong to misuse children to push certain agenda.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 08:01, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

It's wrong to misuse children to push "certain agenda", but you can't assume certain agenda exist without assuming bad faith, which is against Misplaced Pages's principles. I came to post about something else, but seriously, this conversation is ridiculous. Children were placed there because they're children most likely, and having been to Albania, blond children, while definitely not a majority by any means, are certainly not rare or particularly remarkable at all, and they're quite common in certain regions. People should all just calm down here, and don't use Nazi analogies, they don't help anyone. --Yalens (talk) 21:43, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Some anonymous contribution placed at the top; doesn't fit; moved to here

== Besa == is an Albanian cultural precept translated as "Word of Honor" that means "to keep the promise" descends from the book Kanun, traditional Albanian laws.

Pillars of the Kanun (Code of Honor) • Honour (Albanian: Nderi) • Hospitality (Albanian: Mikpritja) • Right Conduct (Albanian: Sjellja) • Kin Loyalty (Albanian: Fisi )

== Sayings ==

Besa related sayings include • Besa e shqiptarit nuk shitet apo miret ne pazar ( The honor of an Albanian can not be sold or bought in a bazaar ) • Shqiptaret vdesin dhe besen nuk e shkelin ( Albanians would die rather than break honor )

Number of albanians around the world(including Albania and Kosovo)

If you collect the number of Albanians in the world according to the numbers shown for each country comes with great amount than 7.5 million ..I think that this is a serious problem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zakoni (talk • contribs) 16:12, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

It adds up to around 6.6 million, though it goes up to about 8.2 million when you add up the higher end figures. So why exactly have you added 9 million? --Local hero 16:35, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

After I brought the Arbereshe from 800K to 80K-100K, the lowest figure adds up to 6.8M and the highest at 8M. Could you please check? I removed the BBC and the ethnologue references for the totals as those references pertain to the speakers of the language and are thus misleading. The total should merely bring the lowest and the highest figures of the sourced information below in infobox. I put in a note in saying that the total reflect the totals of the sourced information below. --Saktesia (talk) 14:53, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Yeah the number of Albanian-speakers ≠ the number of ethnic Albanians, so I agree with that. I'm fine with having the sum of the figures and what you put seems correct. --Local hero 17:40, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

Number of albanians in Albania a wp:synth

The numbers of Albanians in Albania showing only as 2,3 million is a clear wp:synth . The census showed a population of 2.931 milion people as per new 2014 update based on improved statistical methods (base year of 2011 ) . Of whom 15 % preferred not to declare their nationality , due to a campaign from an albanian nationalistic party called Aleanca kuq e zi . Yet as shown by the census 98.9 % of them declared as a mother tongue : Albanian . I am correcting it according to that . There are 500.000 Albanians of Albania that are not being counted . Gjirokastra15 (talk) 12:57, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

I'm afraid you are confusing tongue with ethnicity. Let me remind you that these were two different questions in the specific census.Alexikoua (talk) 22:43, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

As I see the present number is completely wp:or, since it counts 390,938 people who did not declare any ethnicity as ethnic Albanians. Off course I agree that the 2011 census is problematic since the results have been severely affected by boycott, but to use the specific reference in this case is wrong.Alexikoua (talk) 23:18, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

The fact that they denied to declare they ethnicity for the reasons stated above does not take away their right to be Albanians ... ! If you start using terms such as wp:or it is good to first be sure that you understand their meaning ... there is no original work involved in going to the census results and seeing that 98,9 % of the population declared as their mother tongue ( not just tongue ) the Albanian language . Unless you provide an alternative to what those 390,938 souls that have as a mother tongue : Albanian , are ... then it is safe to assume that they are Albanians . This is consistent with many international authority sources as well that put the Albanian majority at a minimum of 96 % . Gjirokastra15 (talk) 00:47, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

As I see the only one that's in extreme wp:or is you. Mother tongue isn't the same as ethnic group and that's why the ones that conducted the specific census included each in diferrent questions. Off course this extreme claim is totally incosistent with anything related to the subject.Alexikoua (talk) 01:11, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Alexikoua 1 more time , you have misunderstood the wp:or . Even if it was an original work which is not , it is acceptable if there are sources backing it up . I repeat if they are not Albanians then what are they ? And if they are without ethnicity wouldn't that make Albania a multi ethnic state ? In addition , you ignored my last argument which is that there is a myriad of reputable international authority sources that show the percentage of the Albanian majority to be at least 96 % . So even if we remove the mother tongue out of the equation you still have to solve that ... Gjirokastra15 (talk) 01:24, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Questionable source

Why on earth is a source titled "The Coming Balkan Caliphate" being used on this page? That just smacks of Islamophobic paranoia, and it really doesn't belong here. --Yalens (talk) 21:43, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

I took the initiative and removed it . I agree with you . In addition the source is not notable and does not show any numbers regarding the total population of Albanians Gjirokastra15 (talk) 21:50, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

It came back at once...--Phso2 (talk) 07:42, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

Not a Muslim community

A large percentage of Albanian are not Muslim. This is even more apparent if we consider the time Albania was an officially atheist state. However at present a good percentage of Albanians identify with no religion, and another percentage are Christians. To be Albanian is not in any way a default of being Muslim.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:16, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

It would mean that as an Albanian i am muslim , yet i am not . Albania and Albanians as a whole are multi religious , where all 3 religions do exist . It is not only the fact that some do not identify with any religion , but others do declare themselves as orthodox or catholic . In fact , the percentage of non Muslims is greater than that of Muslims ( at least for Albania and the albanians of albania living abroad ) . So to sum up , i totally agree with you . Gjirokastra15 (talk) 10:17, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Regarding the abusive edit by Alexikoua being a product of wp:synth

First let me make clear what a wp:synth is : ' If one reliable source says A, and another reliable source says B, do not join A and B together to imply a conclusion C that is not mentioned by either of the sources. '

Second let me emphasize something in order to show the extend of the abuse : Greek co-ethnics who are Albanian citizens (Voreioepirotes) hold Special Identity Cards for Omogeneis (co-ethnics) (EDTO) issued by the Greek police. EDTO HOLDERS ARE NOT INCLUDED in the Ministry of Interior DATA ON ALIENS. .

Thus the 'Omogeneis' are not counted as Aliens. Gjirokastra15 (talk) 01:13, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

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