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Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

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Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed

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Removal of sourced content

Re List of new religious movement and cult researchers You are removing sourced content and vandalizing the page.If you do not understand the criteria for inclusion on a list don't edit the page. You're supposed to be an experienced editor - act like one. ThanksCathar66 (talk) 21:51, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Please read WP:LISTPEOPLE, as referenced in the edit summaries for my removals, before making accusations. It is perfectly clear that a person is typically included in a list of people only if all the following requirements are met:

• The person meets the Misplaced Pages notability requirement.
• The person's membership in the list's group is established by reliable sources.

Saying that an edit is vandalizm when it is not is an attack. Don't do that again. --Tgeairn (talk) 21:54, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

I think you have forgotten the basic tenet to all Misplaced Pages MOS Rules :Use common sense in applying it. Notability is not temporary - that you have succeeded in having their WP page deleted does not affect their right to be om a stand alone list where they are notable in their field.

The page itself lists criteria for inclusion as:

Inclusion in this list assumes having both the requisite training as well as actually conducting at least one research study on cults and/or new religious movements (using accepted methodological standards common in the research community), published in a peer-reviewed journal or academic book.

Thanks. Cathar66 (talk) 22:17, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for striking.

While it is true that the MOS is a guideline, we also have WP:Source list (policy), WP:NLIST (guideline), WP:WTAF (essay), etc. These all point to WP:LISTPEOPLE as how to handle lists of people. There's no compelling reason here to disregard the MOS. As for notability being temporary or not, I am not saying it is temporary. Editors had a discussion and reached the consensus that these people were not notable. Again, there's no compelling reason to include non-notable people in a list in spite of our own guidelines saying not to. --Tgeairn (talk) 22:49, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

You are perfectly aware that the WP:MOS is a set of guide rules. About 20% of them contradict the other 80%. eg:The notability guidelines do not apply to article or list content (with the exception that some lists restrict inclusion to notable items or people) I have listened to what you have said and politely disagree. If you wish to continue this discussion do it on the article talk page. ThanksCathar66 (talk) 23:08, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes, there are some lists that are explicitly for those notable here by having articles or obviously qualified for them, such as alumni of a college or residents of a place. But there are also lists specifically intended to cover the sub-notable, or the borderline notable; the inclusions criteria here are as specified in the list. DGG ( talk ) 05:43, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

@DGG: Thank you for clarifying. It appears that the list is being used to justify or validate the weight of some of these people's work(s), which is really where the whole issue keeps coming up. It's obviously a lot easier to deal with if we use the MOS guideline, but there will certainly be exceptions. Thanks again, Tgeairn (talk) 05:47, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

There's a reason why the MOS guideline allies only to some types of lists: There has to be some way we can deal with or mention things that are not themselves actually notable, in the context of more general subjects. We can include them in articles and make redirects, or we can include them in lists. and make Redirects. Both leave open the possibility of a future article. For lists where that isn;t relevant, such as the two kinds I mentioned, I have worked consistently for years at trimming them whenever I encounter them, as they need continual cutting keep the standard. DGG ( talk ) 06:00, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

@Cathar66: - You just blindly reverted the article without regard for what work others have done. You reintroduced one inaccurate link, two external links that violate WP:ELNO, and a number of malformed {{Sortname}} templates. I have cleaned some of these things up repeatedly, with edit summaries saying so. I'm just not going to bother again. Please demonstrate that the quality of the article is of some concern. --Tgeairn (talk) 06:45, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That vandal is vandalising myy talk page and epicgenius sign in book(u can find him under my talk page history) she said that she is giving us a warning and is going to missuse huggle (what is huggle and how it relates to vandalism?) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doorknob747 (talk • contribs) 22:18, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

@Doorknob747: Reported to WP:AIV and should be blocked soon. --NeilN 22:21, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Misplaced Pages:Village pump (policy)

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Formal mediation has been requested

The Mediation Committee has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to "Landmark Worldwide". As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. Mediation is a voluntary process which resolves a dispute over article content by facilitation, consensus-building, and compromise among the involved editors. After reviewing the request page, the formal mediation policy, and the guide to formal mediation, please indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate. Because requests must be responded to by the Mediation Committee within seven days, please respond to the request by 13 February 2015.

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Ronnie Radke

I made a post earlier today on the Ronnie Radke page, yet it was removed for not providing a source, which I did. The information is listed throughout the link, and the Faustian pact was described at 9:15 into the video interview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao1ubPSmsj8 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gb1225 (talk • contribs) 22:29, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi there Gb1225. We don't usually consider YouTube videos to be reliable sources, both due to concerns for accuracy and for possible copyright issues. It would be preferable to find a reliable source and use that as a reference when including the passage. Let me know if you have any other questions. Thanks, Tgeairn (talk) 22:53, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Hey, I don't think I can use any other source besides a YouTube video (since there is none). However, the video is an interview, and you can see the person himself (Ronnie Radke) speaking it, with an official AP (Alternative Press) Reporter. This video also won a Video of the Year award from Alternative Press. Gb1225 (talk) 00:58, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

@Gb1225: In that case, if it really adds to the article to have the interview piece in there, then I would maybe do a quote from the interview (similar to the Loudwire interview in the article already) and use the YouTube reference. Then put something up on the talk page to see if anyone else has a better source. Nothing against AP or YouTube, but they aren't exactly rock-solid sourcing and we would never use them for anything controversial. Since it's Radke talking about himself, it's got more room. Cheers! Tgeairn (talk) 01:03, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Vandalizing a Biography

Please direct all the spammers, it appears there is more than one, from vandalizing the biography of Mikhail Tolstykh with stupid and biased propaganda.

I should NOT be the one getting any warnings as I am not the one who placed propaganda on Mikhail's biography, I am merely removing it. I will continue to remove it.

Sirtaki36 Sirtaki36 (talk) 22:51, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

edit conflict

Hi. Your edit to Landmark Worldwide caused an edit conflict. You'll note that I put two banners at the top of the article indicating that I'm in the middle of a big rewrite. Your editing interrupts my progress and is against ettiquette. Please take note next time if {{under construction}} or the like is presentCathar66 (talk) 18:43, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Japanese invasions of Korea (1592–98)

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Nomination of Council on Spiritual Practices for deletion

Hi Tgeairn. It's OK with me to delete it. I think that the organization may in fact have ceased to exist. Peter1c (talk) 22:41, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

@Peter1c:Thanks for the note. I didn't find much about the group, and it was all around a single study they sponsored. Their website is still alive, but you may be right about not being around any longer. I'll let the normal AfD process see if anything else comes up. Have a great day! Tgeairn (talk) 22:44, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

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Request for Arbitration Enforcement opened

You are the subject of a request for enforcement at WP:ARE. You may view the request at the the Requests for Enforcement page and post comments and evidence there. See Misplaced Pages:Arbitration for further information. Respectfully. • Astynax 10:42, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Halperin

You are absolutely right to delete the red link, as it links to a deleted article. Sorry, I didn't check it. Kraxler (talk) 16:57, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

@Kraxler:Thanks... between the two of us we got it right! :) Tgeairn (talk) 17:05, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

AE result

As a result of this AE request, I have fully protected the article Landmark Worldwide for one month to allow time for disputes to be worked out without edit-warring and other disruption. Further, you are warned to ensure that your edits comply with the letter and spirit of all applicable policies, particularly NPOV. I would strongly advise you to engage with discussion about your edits and to seek outside opinions if discussion becomes deadlocked. I would also suggest that, if you have a potential conflict of interest with the subject matter, that you disclose it. I have given Astyntax a similar warning, and you can request enforcement of that at AE, but note that enforcement can also be requested against you should you fail to adhere to the expected standards of conduct. It is my impression that admins' patience with this dispute is wearing thin, and that liberal use of topic bans is a likely result, should the measures taken today prove ineffective. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:42, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you Harry for your patience and perseverance here. I believe that your impression is correct and patience is wearing thin across the board.

I am dismayed that there was not a more significant result for some of the parties involved, and if it were not for the already worn tolerance of the admins at AE I would submit enforcement requests against John Carter for his ongoing personal attacks (even on an AE page?!?), Astynax for the filing itself (so soon after other filings at other venues didn't meet their hopes), Manul for whatever the nasty smell is around how a supposed email and statement by Callanecc got to multiple other editors before ever being mentioned on-wiki, and lastly for Theobald Tiger for his complete disregard for the Final Warning Callanecc gave him just a couple weeks ago and EdJohnston's warning a few days later.

Having said all of that, hopefully protection will force editors to cooperate on the article. Again, I appreciate your work here. Have a single-malt on me. Cheers, Tgeairn (talk) 21:00, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

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User talk pages

Please read WP:UP, which is an indicator of the correct and incorrect use of talk pages and if possible try to realize that very few people who have any grasp of policies and guidelines would make the assumption that you did that my previous comment here was a "personal attack." I also suggest that at some point you make some attempt to familiarize the policies and guidelines with which you have previously claimed you were an expert. And I also wish to state in the strongest possible terms that you are in no way welcome to edit my user talk page again, particularly with the frankly irrational insinuations which were so explicit in your last one. John Carter (talk) 23:27, 5 March 2015 (UTC)