Revision as of 23:40, 9 March 2015

• Computing
• Entertainment
• Humanities
• Language
• Mathematics
• Science
• Miscellaneous
• Archives

• WP:RD/M

Main page: Help searching Misplaced Pages

How can I get my question answered?

• Select the section of the desk that best fits the general topic of your question (see the navigation column to the right).
• Post your question to only one section, providing a short header that gives the topic of your question.
• Type '~~~~' (that is, four tilde characters) at the end – this signs and dates your contribution so we know who wrote what and when.
• Don't post personal contact information – it will be removed. Any answers will be provided here.
• Please be as specific as possible, and include all relevant context – the usefulness of answers may depend on the context.
• Note:
  • We don't answer (and may remove) questions that require medical diagnosis or legal advice.
  • We don't answer requests for opinions, predictions or debate.
  • We don't do your homework for you, though we'll help you past the stuck point.
  • We don't conduct original research or provide a free source of ideas, but we'll help you find information you need.

How do I answer a question?

Main page: Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Guidelines

• The best answers address the question directly, and back up facts with wikilinks and links to sources. Do not edit others' comments and do not give any medical or legal advice.

• Teahouse
• Help desk
• Village pump
• Help manual

March 4

Identify parking (?) tags

In the fifth episode of Better Call Saul, we see a woman (Mike Ehrmantraut's daughter, I think) driving a Subaru car. Affixed to the inside lower left of the Subaru's windshield are these two stickers (sorry, that's the most detail I can get). I'm hoping y'all might be able to help me identify what they are. The show is set in Albuquerque, New Mexico, but they don't appear to be NM vehicle tax stickers (which seem to be stuck to the licence plate instead). The logo on the stickers isn't a Subaru logo, so they probably not manufacturer or dealer stickers. Better Call Saul is set in 2002, so it looks like they're six-monthly parking stickers, presumably to allow the character to park at her place of employment. She is shown wearing scrubs, suggesting she works at a hospital or some kind of care facility. The logo (to the extent that it's discernible in the image) doesn't resemble the current logo of any of the larger hospitals I can find in Albuquerque, but my search can't have been exhaustive. Does anyone recognise what these stickers are for? Given the show's attention to detail, they're not there by accident - but of course I recognise that they might only be props pertaining to some fictional hospital too. Thanks for your help. 46.208.59.195 (talk) 11:22, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Here in Texas, we have two stickers *exactly* like that on the window - one being the tax sticker and the other the state inspection sticker. Just because the show is set in New Mexico doesn't mean that there are no out-of-state cars there. Those stickers don't look like the Texas ones - and it's odd that they both seem to have the same graphic on them - but it's possible they come from out of state someplace. SteveBaker (talk) 15:54, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

I think the OP is right about them being intended to be consecutive stickers for something. The 02 is I presume the year. The number under IM is I presume the month of expiry. They probably don't both have to be on the car, but I guess people may do that often if they get them both and don't want to bother to have to remember to put the second one up. I had a look at all the examples at Department of Transportation, but can't find any examples with a similar logo. Of course, the logos could have been different in 2002. Nil Einne (talk) 16:46, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

@steve - The car's plates aren't shown clearly enough to be sure, but they look like the usual sunny-yellow NM plates that other vehicles in the show have. 46.208.59.195 (talk) 17:56, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Just FYI, Jimmy/Saul's car is a Suzuki Esteem, not a Subaru - Cucumber Mike (talk) 15:23, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

It's not Jimmy's car, it's the woman's car. 87.112.25.246 (talk) 17:05, 5 March 2015 (UTC) OP, with apparently new IP lease

Oh dang, sorry. Reading fail! - Cucumber Mike (talk) 17:51, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

The visual display of the articles

Hello,

The first thing you learn in Graphic design school is how to set out text in order for it to be easy to read.

This is why newspapers have columns. It is so much easier and more pleasant to read large amounts of text when it is presented in small widths. The eye travels down easier than across.

It is such a shame that all the Misplaced Pages pages are set out in long and extremely wide paragraphs. I always have to reduce the size of the window to create a skinny text in order to read up on things.

Creating regular paragraph breaks also makes it so much easier to read text. I have had a look at your editing options but there does not appear to be any page formatting tool available.

I would love to do some pages for you so that you can see for yourself how much better it reads.

Many thanks, Alexandra — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dingbatdelux (talk • contribs) 13:09, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Graphic design schools have an unfortunate tendency of teaching a bunch of pseudoscientific cobblers (like their perennial favourite, the golden ratio) and passing it off as "fact". But if we use actual scientific studies of the effect of line length on readability, we see little to no effect, certainly no evidence that narrow columns are better and a weak suggestion that they're worse. 46.208.59.195 (talk) 13:31, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

@Dingbatdelux: Appreciate the interest in improving Misplaced Pages, but you're on the wrong page. This reference desk is for questions of fact in miscellaneous topic areas, usually unrelated to Misplaced Pages. For any real chance at change, your best bet is Misplaced Pages:Village pump (proposals), and be warned such a major change has little chance even there. ―Mandruss ☎ 13:41, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

As with any modern website, just change the Skin until it displays how you want it to. If one that you like isn't available that displays things exactly how you wish, create one. See also Misplaced Pages:Skin. Nanonic (talk) 13:58, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

I don't think CSS supports laying out a <div> in two columns, so you'd need some JavaScript split the text for you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by LongHairedFop (talk • contribs) 14:40, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Having two columns in an online document makes zero sense (see my comment below) - but having a narrower swath of text with images off to the sides is (arguably) a nicer presentation - and that could easily be done in a MediaWiki 'skin'. SteveBaker (talk) 15:46, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

CSS 3 does support multi-column layout (modulo some technicalities) - see here and here. AndrewWTaylor (talk) 20:50, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

The problem with multiple columns is that they only work in a situation where there is an actual page - you need to be able to flick your eyes from the bottom of one column to the top of the other, without having to scroll up and down with the mouse. Problem is that the concept of a "Page" doesn't really exist on a computer screen...the height of the screen is variable depending on the window size. If you find a PDF that's organized into two columns, but the page is larger than the screen height, it's a MAJOR pain to have to scroll up and down between columns - and very easy to lose your place by accidentally scrolling up more than one page height. But think about it...why do we need to pack our columns so close together? We're not paying for the cost of paper - so one long, continuous column - without page breaks is much easier to handle because you only have to scroll gradually in one direction.

So even if you were right about short line lengths being easier to read (which, as 46.208.59.195 points out, you aren't) - then a single narrower column would make vastly more sense than having two wedged in side-by-side.

Which in turn leads me to say: Adjust the width of the browser window to the line length you find easiest to read...which is what you're already doing.

There are plenty of websites which have bought into this idea that narrow columns are easier to read - you see that (for example) in http://medium.com, which leaves large white borders either side of the text, and has much wider photographs and graphics. This also allows for readers to respond to the text by putting short annotations in the margins.

SteveBaker (talk) 15:46, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

• Line length does affect readability, and the IP and Steve should do more research before dismissing the claim entirely. But line length technically has nothing to do with the number of columns.

We shouldn't talk about "short" or "long" lines if we want to study the effects, we should quantify line length, either in terms of character count or an actual length unit, like millimeters. Obviously, lines 1000 characters long will be very hard to read, as will lines that are 3 characters long. Most studies find peak readability in the 50-80 character range, though different methods and metrics and sample sizes will cause a decent amount of variation between studies. Also consider that there are many different metrics for readability, and that an optimal line length for reading speed will not necessarily be the optimal line length for reading comprehension. A selection of scientific articles addressing the issue here , , , many of which use at least slightly different methods and ask technically different but related questions. More can easily be found searching google scholar.

But as Steve points out, 2-column would likely be bad for WP, and you can resize your browser to give a line width that you are comfortable with. 18:23, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Also the paragraph breaks are more about writing style than text presentation per se. Feel free to be WP:BOLD and split up long paragraphs wherever you like. You need no special formatting, just but two lines of white space between paragraphs. SemanticMantis (talk) 18:24, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Er, that is, two consecutive newlines, giving one line of white space. --70.49.169.244 (talk) 19:54, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes, thanks, that's what I meant to say :) SemanticMantis (talk) 20:10, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Perhaps the first thing they should teach in design school is how to resize your browser window, and perhaps the second thing they should teach is that it is generally preferable to provide flexible options that allow readers to display text according to their personal preference. Fortunately, modern technology allows this.

It's also worth noting that not everything in Misplaced Pages is prose. We also quote poetry in our articles, and wide pages are almost a prerequisite for poetry - it's extremely difficult to understand the structure of the Aeneid and The Song of Hiawatha if you have to read them in narrow columns!

The user has confused her personal preference, or that of her teachers, for a universal law. For the record, I keep my browser windows as wide as possible, and would find newspaper-style columns a nuisance to read. RomanSpa (talk) 11:30, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes, this is entirely personal preference of the OP, I vastly prefer a wide layout to multiple columns. (Which, as an aside, would make editing here more complicated too). 131.251.254.81 (talk) 11:46, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes, Alexandra's question seems to be based on a false assumption. The page layout taught in graphic design is for the purpose of making a whole page look attractive, and to encourage the reader to read it. Sometimes this is to the detriment of readability, even on a printed page (though that's probably because the designer failed to consider readability when making the page look pretty). I strongly dislike narrow columns because they make the text difficult for me to read (possibly because I read whole words at once and hate hyphenation), and I find pdfs set out in columns really difficult to follow when I can't see a whole page at once. Columnar layout is totally unsuitable for Misplaced Pages, but we could reduce line length by including more pictures at the side. I agree with Alexandra about long paragraphs. Dbfirs 12:49, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

• I agree that layout in talk sections is very important. But I don't worry about line length, since the reader controls that, and except for poems, artificial line lengths are distracting. (You'll also notice as the OP that your line lengths were ignored by the WP layout parameters.)

Nevertheless, I do break up paragraphs as often as possible, and use one sentence paragraphs or bulleted lists when it makes sense. This makes reading much easier. Many of our editors understand this. Others, like Nil Einne and SteveBaker do not, but I won't mention their names out of courtesy. WP:TLDR

Having worked s a typesetter, copy editor, and editor, I know that short paragraphs and page columns are important for ease of lection. But I don't see a way for WP to have multiple columns of text within articles on a regular basis. It simply screws with the layout of charts and images.

Aesthetics are secondary to universal access at WP. And it's up to the reader to figure out how to vary the browser width and font size. TANSTAAFL.

μηδείς (talk) 02:51, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

March 5

Does vegetarianism imply a conscious choice?

A typical American may eat a meal that is heavy in meats and fats. However, this does not take into account of ethnic minorities, especially those who recently immigrated into the United States and are more accustomed to preparing foods from their homelands. Now, if such a person eats breakfast and dinner at home and brings a sack lunch to work or school, then he or she may not adopt American eating habits and preferences so quickly, but have nothing against American cuisine, so such a person may eat potato chips and hamburgers during parties or purchase sodapop from a vending machine when the water fountain is non-functional. Alternatively, a person, irrespective of culture, may eat a primarily vegetarian diet, because it tastes good but would not self-identify as a vegetarian, because the eating habits are not made out of concern for the environment or for one's health. I am just wondering if vegetarianism implies a conscious choice for an explicit reason or if vegetarianism can be made arbitrarily and unconsciously by reviewing one's eating habits and preferences. 140.254.136.149 (talk) 18:28, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Vegetarianism is not eating meat. The reasons why someone may not eat meat are many. So the unhelpful answer to your question is "It can be both." Mingmingla (talk) 18:50, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Okay. Thanks for your reply. 140.254.136.149 (talk) 18:57, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

The "-ism" means it's an ideology, which means it's a choice. Those who choose to not eat meat because they prefer another flavour made a choice, just like the ones who did it for health or morality reasons.

The ones who don't eat meat because it never crossed their mind have no idea and aren't vegetarians. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:30, March 5, 2015 (UTC)

That may be your personal opinion, but please see etymological fallacy for why basing your personal opinion on the etymology of words is an unproductive venture, and leads one to wrong conclusions. People may have dietary and health reasons for being vegetarians. It has nothing to do with the "-ism" and "choice" as to how they are properly identified. Vegetarianism means "eating no meat", full stop. It does not mean "eating no meat for reasons that fit only within my own narrow definitions that I try to backjustify with some etymological bullshit." If you practice vegetarianism, you don't eat meat; whether you could eat meat or choose not to, OR if you have reasons why you couldn't eat meat, and thus choice were taken out of the picture. --Jayron32 20:11, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Narrow definition? I allowed for every reason. And it's not only my opinion, I read it in the vegetarianism article. First sentence. Of course, you could say the definitions of "practice" and "abstain" are also meaningless. I think words matter. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:38, March 5, 2015 (UTC)

merriam-webster.com, dictionary.com, and oxforddictionaries.com all define it to include anyone who doesn't eat meat. The Vegetarian Society, which is apparently responsible for popularizing the term, also defines it that way. -- BenRG (talk) 01:33, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

The full definition in Merriam doesn't, and the others include an "or" or "especially" for the rational aspects. Vegetarian Society is clear that they intend to convince more people to become vegetarians. That requires a conscience. InedibleHulk (talk) 16:48, March 6, 2015 (UTC)

Is melanism an ideology? Priapism? —Tamfang (talk) 07:53, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Is a hot dog a dog? Does that matter to guide dog? There's no absolute rule. When something means something, it does. When it doesn't, that's another deal. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:05, March 7, 2015 (UTC)

When you're young, you eat what the parents put on your plate. Your only choices at that point are "take it or leave it." As you get older, you might choose to continue with that type of food or you might choose to take another path. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 20:43, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

And if you put a plate of fried chicken to the left of a stone and a plate of spinach to the right, the stone will never eat the meat. Is the stone a vegetarian? Why or why not? InedibleHulk (talk) 20:52, March 5, 2015 (UTC)

It depends. What do stones normally eat? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 21:54, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Whatever they want. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:44, March 5, 2015 (UTC)

Good point. In Hawaii, they are omnivores. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 22:49, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

In some places, they will tigers away. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:56, March 5, 2015 (UTC)

Words are an indirect means (often inadequate, inaccurate or imprecise) for expressing facts. Reasoning about the words themselves is not the same thing as reasoning about the facts behind them.

Perhaps it would be safer to reserve the term "herbivore" for one who happens to eat only vegetable material and "vegetarian" for one who does so by active choice or ideology. I am currently an omnivore - but might be forced into a herbivorous diet if I were stuck on a desert island with nothing but berries and coconuts to eat. However, I don't think you'd say that I'd become a vegetarian or taken up vegetarianism - because that's an ideological position that I don't embrace. If forced by circumstances into becoming a full-time herbivore, I'd certainly crave that juicy burger and I'd be very likely eat one if I could get my hands on one. So you couldn't remotely say that I was a vegetarian - that would be silly! Rather a non-vegetarian living a herbivorous life-style. If you found a vegetarian and brutally force-fed him/her a steak, then he/she is still a vegetarian - albeit (temporarily) a carnivore. SteveBaker (talk) 20:52, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

"-ism" doesn't always imply ideology. For instance, Old-maidism isn't an ideology, it's a condition. Wikitionary's entry vegetarianism states it's "the practice of following a vegetarian diet." A practice is not the same thing as having an ideology regarding that practice. --Modocc (talk) 00:00, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Other examples include abranchialism, absinthism, achromatism, acromegaloidism, acrosticism, actinism, .... Also, any dictionary's entry for -ism will mention that it has non-ideological meanings. wikt:-ism lists a few commoner examples such as magnetism and colloquialism. -- BenRG (talk) 02:04, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Fine, but if I'm stuck on an island with no food available other than plants, so I eat a plant-only diet but still *crave* meat and search obsessively in the futile hunt for an animal to cook and eat...would you describe me as a "vegetarian"? I really don't think that's a tenable linguistic position. SteveBaker (talk) 19:31, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

As long as you are stuck without meat, that is the condition of your diet even if it's against your will. -Modocc (talk) 20:55, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm a 2nd-order vegetarian: I don't eat any carnivores. - ¡Ouch! ( / _{more pain}) 10:29, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm 1.5th-order, I don't eat carnivorous plants. SteveBaker (talk) 19:31, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Pity. Venus flytraps are delicious sauteed in a red wine sauce, with shallots and aubergines. -- Jack of Oz 21:48, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

That's a good joke, but a federal crime if you harvest them in the wild. And the buggers are quite hard to breed. μηδείς (talk) 02:58, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Buggers tend not to reproduce their own kind. Their theme song is "Looking for Love in All the Wrong Places". -- Jack of Oz 19:07, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Bugs brought up a very important point regarding kids not having a choice. This is especially true when kids are still being spoon-fed and are therefore completely clueless. Furthermore, it is important for healthcare providers and others to take proper note of their vegetarian diet, or vegetarianism since that is what these families practice and they are all vegetarian. In addition, BenRG is correct, the dictionary definitions are inclusive, broadly defined and do not preclude the kids' non-rational reason for not being meat-eaters. -Modocc (talk) 20:55, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

A little poem from Leonard Cohen:

A person who eats meat wants to get his teeth into something.

A person who eats no meat wants to get his teeth into something else.

If these thoughts interest you for even a moment, you are lost.

--jpgordon 05:45, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

BTW, for animals which can't eat meat (because they can't digest it), we don't call them vegetarians, we call them herbivores. StuRat (talk) 06:01, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Left and right side on bridges

Is it correct to pick the reference point of a person walking along a bridge (a pedestrian or with a pedestrian sidewalk) and say, for instance "(s)he was walking on the right side of the Fooian Bridge", i.e. on his/her right hand? (Since for a person standing on one end of the bridge the right side would be the one that is left for a person on the other end and vice versa). I suspect that many bridges, particularly pedestrian and those with pedestrian sidewalks, don't have a labelled entrance and exit, so both ends could be an entrance and exit. Brandmeister 22:36, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

When walking on any kind of road, bridge or otherwise, you would label which side you're on relative to yourself. To say you're walking on the "right side" of a roadway is insufficient info, as your direction also needs to be part of it. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 22:40, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Yep, but I have an impression that the sides may be aligned to north-south direction, as on the maps. Just wanted to confirm whether it's safe to simply write that a person walked on the right/left side. Brandmeister 22:57, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

I don't think that works. If I'm walking on my right side of the bridge, and you're coming toward me from the other side, you're also on your right side of the bridge. When highway traffic is being discussed, you're most likely to hear "inbound" and "outbound" lanes (relative to a central city or whatever). ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 23:18, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

Well, whether it works depends on what information you want to convey. If you want to say that the person was walking on the right, then say so. If you want to say that they were walking along the east side of the bridge, then say that. If you want to say both things at once, then say both: they were walking north (or "towards the Tower of London", say) along the east (or right) side of the bridge. There's nothing special about bridges in this. --70.49.169.244 (talk) 07:07, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

"Walking to the right" tells you nothing about which side of the bridge you're on. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 03:34, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

If the bridge is indeed north-south, why not say east side or west side? Mingmingla (talk) 03:45, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

If it's a bridge over a river, then upstream side or downstream side are also unambiguous.--Shantavira| 08:21, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks, meh. Brandmeister 09:23, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

One small complication, rivers and streams have right and left banks, the Seine being the most famous, The orientation faces downstream, so a bridge could be said to have right and left ends according to the bank nomenclature. Acroterion (talk) 18:13, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Having a left or right end does nothing to disambiguate which side of the bridge you're walking on. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 03:34, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

That's good to know. I have, naturally, heard many times of the Left Bank of the Seine. It never occurred to me to imagine it might also have a Right Bank. I've certainly never heard it mentioned in polite society. We should have a Category:Rivers with only one bank; or, at least, only one bank that anyone ever bothers to talk about. -- Jack of Oz 22:48, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

While the artsy touristy Left Bank is more famous internationally, the "right bank" term is commonly used in Paris, and is where the department stores, the Hotel de Ville, the Louvre and so on are located. Acroterion (talk) 13:13, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

• In New Jersey, reports usually refer to eastbound traffic out of Philly on a Philadelphia station as Jersey-bound, and the same for westward traffic out of NYC on NYC area radio stations. Traffic out of New Jersey to Philly or NYC is described as city-bound traffic, when broadcast from Philly or NYC, respectively. Within NYC itself the question is quite a bit more complex, given the inter-borough bridges. The issue itself is best treated within a local context, rather than trying to make universal policies. μηδείς (talk) 21:47, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

I need help editing my novel.

How can I go about finding someone to edit my novel? Hopefully for free with low risk of someone taking my idea's. My mother said she would do it but she's taking far too long and has only reached chapter three in the first week. I can't rely on her to edit, I won't have it until next year. I've searched the internet and can't come up with anything on my own. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.80.128.121 (talk) 23:05, 5 March 2015 (UTC)

You likely aren't going to find someone to do reliable work for free. People who do this for a living do it to pay their bills and feed their children. It's not reasonable to simply ask one of them to do it for free just because you ask real nice. Unless you're going to pay someone, then you've got your mom. --Jayron32 02:13, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Have you tried looking in your local Yellow Pages or similar directory? You will probably find several freelancers who perform document preparation, secretarial services and so on for a modest sum. If you are looking for free editing, you might also try asking for help from one of the "beta readers/editors" who provide help on such websites as Fanfiction.net and AO3. Remember that "free" services are very often worth only what you pay for them!

As for your concerns about someone taking your ideas, whilst this is not legal guidance, it is generally the case that it is unlikely that you will be able to copyright the ideas expressed in the novel. With certain specific exceptions (dependent on your jurisdiction) your intellectual property rights are in the expression of the ideas in the text, and not the ideas themselves. You should read our articles on copyright and the idea–expression divide for more information.

Finally, you should be aware that editing takes time and care, and your mother is doing a difficult technical job for nothing and in her spare time. To have reached chapter three in the first week seems to me to be good progress; it is unlikely that a reliable beta reader on FF.net would be as efficient. I'd encourage you to spend a little less time feeling entitled, and a little more time feeling grateful that you have a parent who'll take on this task for you. RomanSpa (talk) 02:20, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Unless your are putting together a vanity novel, find a publisher first. If they think your verbiage literary masterpiece is worthy of publication, they will suggest the services of an experienced copy editor to knock your novel into shape -suitable for the bookshelves of airport departure lounges. Oh yes... That is what it is all about – read it -throw it away. If they they don’t think your novel will sell (ie make them money $ $ $ $ ) then... There are a lot of other hopefuls out there that they can choose from. Be heartened however. Speak to any literary historian and he (or more usually she) will point out that the first attempts of many great authors was trash. It took many tries to hone their style right and unique. Persevere but don't try to reinvent the wheel. After all, did you design the engine management system of the automobile that gets you to the book shop? Seek out the experts in the publication industry. Get them exited... that this time your time machine can prove it unequivocally, that the butler really did do it (or whatever your novel is about). P.S. From one story teller to another: Do not trust Atoms - they make up everything. Yeah, they really do! But don't pinch my next story line OK!--Aspro (talk) 22:28, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

How synchronistic. Only yesterday I joined a sort of writers' collective/support network (it was the first meeting and we haven't decided on a name or purpose or operating procedures or anything like that yet). Twice as many people as expected turned up. We spent the day all sharing our backgrounds and what we want to achieve and what we can offer and getting to know each other. As soon as I mentioned I write for Misplaced Pages and am fierce on grammar, punctuation, spelling and style, I was flooded with requests* to edit the writing of others. (* This is not to be read as an open invitation to approach me.) Money does not come into this. Most communities would have some sort of writers' groups like this. Try searching online or asking around in bookshops or on Facebook. The most unlikely people turn out to be budding (or, indeed, published) memoirists or novelists or local historians or poets, and you might mix with them socially for years and never know about this aspect of their lives. -- Jack of Oz 21:44, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Think that is an interesting comment Oz. As you may have gathered, I don't have any grasp of grammar at all. Of my friends that do and can churn out page after page of excellent and easy to read prose, they find no one appreciates those skills until a copy-editor is required and they are then expected to provide those skills for nought remittance. Some of my acquaintances are in law. I found out in the past, that if I got their car/heating system/swimming pool/you name it/... running again, they considered that it was a no skilled job but if I asked them about how to set up (say) an affidavit they would not say anything unless a fee was agreed first. If any lawyer, accountant or similar profession is reading this and wonders why their neighbors kids decline to fix their computer or what-not for free... they now know why.--Aspro (talk) 22:53, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

• I charge $40 for the first page, double spaced, and less per additional page of something that I ghost-write. Additional fees include $40 per hour of reading sources provided to me, and more for difficult preparatory research I need to do myself. I charge $20 for the first, plus $10 per additional page, to edit something that's been written already. I reserve the right to raise the rate or decline the project. Email me through wikipedia, be prepared to email a word document and a pdf of the same text. Assume that at a minimum, a 200 page document will cost $2,000 for simple copy editing, more for research or editorial comments on the text that address plot holes or other such difficulties. μηδείς (talk) 21:41, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

And how much do you pay other Misplaced Pages editors for helping you with your difficult preparatory research? :¬ )--Aspro (talk) 22:14, 7 March 2015 (UTC) --Aspro (talk) 22:14, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Actually, I can't remember ever having used the ref desks for such research, but even if I did, I would still charge, since when I am doing work I wouldn't do for fun I expect to get at least $35/hr plus benefits. I did recently ghostwrite a paper on a Mozart Opera, and used WP, but did not ask for any help here at RD. I did charge for time for actually having to watch the opera, even though I enjoyed it. My purpose here was to inform the OP, not to brag that I make enough to pay my outrageous medical bills and liquor allowance. μηδείς (talk) 23:09, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Expecting someone else to check your writing for free is rather unreasonable, IMHO. Most people who are interested in doing that kind of thing are either writing their own novels - or charging for doing it. As Medeis points out, you shouldn't expect this to be cheap. Going *carefully* through a document doing a good editing job on it is likely to take a significant fraction of an hour per page - and since you can't expect someone with the necessary qualifications to work for minimum wage, I'd say that $10/page is a deal! Finding a group of fellow authors who all need similar services is likely to be your best chance - you could probably figure out some arrangement where you'd edit their book in exchange for them editing yours. But that assumes that the problem is that you need "more eyes" on the book - rather than you just sucking at spelling/grammar/whatever, because if that's your problem, then you're not likely to be able to improve the other person's book either! SteveBaker (talk) 19:03, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

March 6

Stalling and modern car engines

Sort of an engineering issue: Why do many modern cars stall so easily?

I don't have any hard numbers on the issue, but I have witnessed a lot of stalling lately, say during the last 10 years. This includes both other cars and my own.

My car is a modern electronic model, and I found that stalling is not always connected to the lower displaceent (my first car was an old model, OHC engine with close to twice the displaceent, i.e. more power at low RPM), but also to the fact that the engine seems to quit around 700rpm even with no load.

The old car, which was 17 years old when I got it but in great condition, could recover from 300 to 400rpm with no problem if I disengaged in time, but with new cars, it's different: no matter what load, if the rpm drop below 700, the engine calls it a day. I don't know the exact rpm figures; I'm extrapolating from the internal RPM meter, so the figures could be off. However, it's definitly about twice the rpm I could recover from with my old car, i.e. roughly the same power, and with a smaller engine with lighter parts.

Now, why does the engine chip give up? Is it dangerous to run an engine at low RPM, to an extent that it's less dangerous to stop the engine completely and let the user restart than to try to keep it running? Is there some code in it like

if (time_since_last_rev >= 90 milliseconds) {
    stop();  // don't risk engine damage
}

OTOH, I always thought that stalling an engine is bad (as in, potentially damaging)...

Our article on stall (engine) claims that electronic engines are less plagued by stalling, but in my experience, that's not true, not at low RPM.

Pleas note that I'm not really a "car guy". The most complicated car maintenance I ever did was an oil change - ¡Ouch! ( / _{more pain}) 12:19, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

I'm not a car guy either, but I think any modern car that stalls at low RPM needs a tune-up. I think idle RPM is still something that can be adjusted. ―Mandruss ☎ 12:25, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks but sorry that's not it; it didn't drop below 700 without load. It's just that it never recovers once it drops that low.

• When reversing or otherwise when going very slowly, with the old OHC I could disengage around 400rpm and push the gas only so slightly, and it would recover 99% of the time.
• Now when I fail to disengage in time and it drops below 700, it's already dead (as in it didn't recover 'once). It does restart just fine, and it never drops below ~950 without load.
• Yes I am part of the problem; I'm so used to engines with more power at low RPM that my reflexes don't kick in in time to save a modern engine. :(

And when I bought that one,

Vendor: Oh, you're from America, please wait while I pull up the pricing of our AT cars...

Me: No thanks, I'm looking for manual transmission.

Vendor: *wat*

And it happened twice.

Back to the main issue, I don't stall that often, I'm down to about once per month, but that's much more than I did before. And the amount of stalling in other cars has increased, too, but now that I think of it, drivers who are still adapting to a newer engine could be to "blame" for most of these.

p.s. I reformatted Stalling (disambiguation). - ¡Ouch! ( / _{more pain}) 13:06, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

May I ask what cubic capacity the engine is. What I'm thinking is that some modern cars have very small engines. What with their engine management system trying to keep the revs low and their resulting low rotational kinetic energy, the the OP's model may well have stalling problem – if it fits into this category. However, if he own a Humvee, then that theory go out the widow as not even a traffic patrol vehicle blocking the road ahead will course a stall.--Aspro (talk) 22:47, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Does your modern car have airconditioning? Did your old car *not* have A/C? The deal with most modern small-engined cars (certainly my MINI Cooper) you need the engine power you get at around 700 rpm to keep the airconditioner pump running. The engine management computer on my car sets the idle to 500rpm when the A/C is turned off and 700rpm when it's turned on. So it doesn't stall no matter what. But if you had a car that didn't detect when the A/C is turned on, then the idle would need to be set to 700rpm to avoid stalling in the worst-case situation. Older cars without A/C can obviously idle with lower rpm, all other things being equal.

But there is a trend toward higher rpms in order to have smaller cylinders without compromising power output - hence you can have a smaller motor, less weight, etc. It's not a bad thing. If your car stalls, then if it's an automatic, or if it's stalling while idling - then you need to get it serviced. If it's a stickshift and it's stalling as you pull off the line, then you simply need to adjust your driving style.

SteveBaker (talk) 19:24, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

My gut reaction is that the OP does not have a stickshift, as one quickly learns how to manage the gas pedal within the first 10 hours of driving. --Aspro (talk) 23:02, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

I learned on automatic but switched to manual within a year (both the "old" and the new car are manual, too); the "rotational kinetic energy" seems to be really low even at about twice the RPM. That's a thing I never thought of – but it's possible: smaller cylinders, smaller pistons, crankshaft and last but not least, smaller and lighter flywheel.

• More than half the cases happen when parking and stop me two feet short of the spot :(
• Most of the other cases during winter, when it's cold and I pull off in 2nd gear; these usually happen less than a mile from home, in the morning. I blame temperatures and "Driver needs coffee badly" syndrome.
• Sometimes I'm just not paying attention, or I'm distracted, and whoops.

These add up to about once per month. Quite bad but not a disaster either.

I wonder how precise the timing is with electronic engines? It probably varies between manufacturers, but 90 milliseconds is less than twice the PC timer overflow interval; maybe the timer since last rev (or since last ignition, or whatever) just overflows and that, rather than an "emergency stop" statement is what kills the engine. Or maybe I thought of that because I'm better I suck less at computers than at cars... - ¡Ouch! ( / _{more pain}) 08:19, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

As you have learnt on automatics, then maybe you have still not got the hang on slipping the clutch/ riding the clutch at slow speed -such as parking and uphill starts. One just uses the gas pedal to keep the revs a little bit higher. See: & . This may not always intuitive to everybody – and you, maybe are one of the unlucky geeks that needs to switch off the logic part of brain and 'just feel' the cars response and act accordingly. Try some up-hill-starts. First forward then backwards. If this is the problem you are experiencing, Then, through the seat of your pants you will soon judge the right revs to maintain. It is just practice. Have a go and report back to us please, as this question may come up again. P.S. Those higher revs and good clutch control negates any millisecond delay inherent in the engine management system. Forget that, until why have engine management systems using quantum computers.--Aspro (talk) 17:09, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

Judicial Sentencing for Witchcraft

Context: https://en.wikivoyage.org/Wikivoyage_talk:Joke_articles/Time_travel#Witch_Trials

What was the historical sentence and methods of carrying out used in history? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:52, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Which country? KägeTorä - (_虎) (Chin Wag) 15:16, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

in the Context pre-colonial United States. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:22, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

(edit conflict) It appears to be Salem, Mass, in what would become the United States, at the time of the Witch Trials. Thus, in 1692. Did you read our article on the Salem Witch Trials, ShakespereFan? LongHairedFop (talk) 15:23, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

I'd also recommend Entertaining Satan - Witchcraft and the Culture of Early New England by John Putnam Demos, an excellent read and very comprehensive. Demos has written several other books on Witchcraft as a historical study. --Jayron32 15:29, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

In the U.S., burning, hanging and pressing under stones were used as methods of execution of convicted witches. The Espy File (Executions in the U.S. 1608-2002) lists 33 people executed by hanging, one by pressing and one by burning. The only African American convicted of witchcraft was the only one executed by burning. 20 of the 35 known executions for witchcraft occurred at Salem. No executions for witchcraft occurred after the Revolutionary War, so arguably none occurred in the United States. Rmhermen (talk) 19:44, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

I'd always figured old-timey Americans leaned toward burning blacks over whites, but not by that much. Damn. Seems the only thing so vile a white person could do to get that is "slave revolt". Makes me think witchhunting fell out of fashion more for finding an easier scapegoat than finding rationality or humanity. Need to torture test a witch to see if she's black. Checking the skin instead must've seen some prosectors' conviction rates skyrocket. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:18, March 6, 2015 (UTC)

What the fuck are you rambling on about? --Jayron32 03:56, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

The Espy File. And race in the United States criminal justice system. And moral panic. Not allegedly magical Tanzanian albinos. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:40, March 7, 2015 (UTC) InedibleHulk (talk) 19:38, March 7, 2015 (UTC)

Mysterious fuel gauge

I recently bought (in the UK) a second-hand Toyota Yaris which has a digital instrument display. The fuel gauge has the letters "I/I" at the top, and "R" at the bottom. Is this from another language or some sort of international code? Just curious. The speed is given in Miles Per Hour, and it's a right-hand drive so you would think it was optimised for the UK market. Alansplodge (talk) 17:58, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Have you checked the car's manual? Maybe it explains there what these mean? --Jayron32 18:02, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Checking this out in various car forums, mentioning other Toyota models too, such as the Scion tC, I saw consensus that "1/1" stands for 100% (not 1/2-full, not 2/3-full, but 1/1-full!), while "R" appears to stand for reserve (though at least one person suggested "refill" too). One reason for this choice might be that they're more universally understandable outside the Anglophone world (reserve is called something similar, starting with the letter "R", in many languages, while the words for "full" and "empty" usually don't start with "F" and "E" in those languages. ---Sluzzelin talk 18:20, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Sluzzelin, that makes perfect sense. Unfortunately Jayron, the manual wasn't supplied, but I've been able to work most of it out so far.... Alansplodge (talk) 18:24, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

FYI @Alansplodge, user manuals are available here.    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 01:50, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Thank you kind sir. Alansplodge (talk) 18:21, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

By the way, the Japanese drive on the same side as we do, so the car would not be optimized necessarily for the UK market, it would just be normal. If it had been changed to left-hand drive, then it would have been optimized for certain other countries. KägeTorä - (_虎) (Chin Wag) 11:38, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

I think both of Alansplodge's comments were meant to be taken together not seperately. Japan and some other countries may have right hand drive vehicles, but they instrument panels probably don't have Miles Per Hour as the primary speed units. In fact, probably one of the only ones which would is the US, but they would have left hand drive. Japanese used vehicle exporting and other sites like seem to confirm that having MPH probably means the speedometer at least was changed for Japan importsedit: exports, or I'm guessing anywhere else which exports many vehicles to the UK (Singapore perhaps?). Of course it's possible only the speedometer was changed rather than really being optimised for the UK market. Nil Einne (talk) 13:31, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Indeed. I was assuming that MPH + RHD = UK. Even the Republic of Ireland has gone over to those funny kilometre thingies. Why are we writing in tiny letters? Is it an eye test? Alansplodge (talk) 19:23, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Yes, just to see if you can drive, dear chap. KägeTorä - (_虎) (Chin Wag) 19:38, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Point me in the direction of Specsavers please... Alansplodge (talk) 11:22, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

You have two options. Either zoom in, or copypaste to your preferred Wordprocessor. Then, dear chap, you shall pass your test for being a worthy driver. Believe me. KägeTorä - (_虎) (Chin Wag) 17:11, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

I cheated and read from the "edit". Alansplodge (talk) 21:04, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

• Pages automatically checked for accidental language links
• Misplaced Pages resources for researchers
• Misplaced Pages help forums
• Misplaced Pages reference desk