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The following Misplaced Pages contributor has declared a personal or professional connection to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include conflict of interest, autobiography, and neutral point of view. CorporateM (talk · contribs) This user has declared a connection.

Shaygan Kheradpir is currently an Economics and business good article nominee. Nominated by CorporateM (Talk) at 00:42, 5 December 2014 (UTC) An editor has indicated a willingness to review the article in accordance with the good article criteria and will decide whether or not to list it as a good article. Comments are welcome from any editor who has not nominated or contributed significantly to this article. This review will be closed by the first reviewer. To add comments to this review, click discuss review and edit the page. Note: COI nominator. Small article.

Draft

I have a COI/financial connection/affiliation with Kheradpir's former employer, Juniper Networks. I began working on a more proper draft article on November 3rd, while he was still the current CEO of the company. Since I already completed a first draft and there is still some content relevant to Juniper's corporate affairs, we decided to improve the page anyway.

The current article relies heavily on press releases and primary sources. It also contains promotional content like awards, "at the forefront of consumer Internet" and the usual promotional fodder. This seems especially unnecessary, because there are plenty of strong sources available through the library that do in fact support a very positive profile on him without needing to use promotional language and poor sources.

To avoid even the remote appearance of impropriety, I'd like to ask a disinterested editor to review and consider the draft at User:CorporateM/Shaygan_Kheradpir, per WP:COI. Thanks in advance for your time! CorporateM (Talk) 18:50, 1 December 2014 (UTC)

Recent edits

Recent edits by SPA user:Intchar* do not appear to be directly supported by the sources given and are often exaggerations of what is actually stated in the source. It adds promotional content like "and the need to orient IT programs around the consumerization of technology, in which people, not businesses, drive technology development" and seems to remove sourced content about the size of budget he controlled, the prototyping process he implemented at Verizon and so on. A press release was used as the primary citation for his work on the TRANSFORM program at Barclays.

I think the article would be much improved if the article was reverted to its prior state. CorporateM (Talk) 08:04, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your review, user:CorporateM . Three comments on your note:

First, I think my recent edits to this article are an improvement overall, but I agree with your observation on the TRANSFORM citation. As such, I’ve edited the document to change the primary reference to a CIO Magazine article (new reference 4), in which Kheradpir says his work will be “fundamental to achieving our Transform programme commitments,” and his boss, the group CEO talks about the strategic importance of the work and Kheradpir’s contribution. I also moved the company briefing farther down in the article (new reference 17), as it provides concrete information on what the Barclays TRANSFORM plan is about.

Second, the reason I removed the IT budget figure of $1.5B from the article is that these kinds of numbers are counted different ways in different companies, and are notoriously unreliable. IT budget figures can vary widely -- depending on whether one counts capital vs. expense, hw/sw acquisition vs. license & maintenance, system vs. network cost, which business units are included, etc. For example, another article cites the FiOS budget, for which Kheradpir was largely responsible, as being $23B (reference 1: http://www.cnet.com/news/verizon-bets-big-on-network-infrastructure). I don’t believe the originally stated number was meaningful, so I removed it from the article.

Finally, I don’t think it’s at all promotional to say that Kheradpir pointed out “the need to orient IT programs around the consumerization of technology, in which people, not businesses, drive technology development.” Kheradpir’s position on this is well established in the references, and I think, well known in the IT community. However, on another point, I understand the importance of not appearing to be promotional, so I removed the phrase “award winning” in front of Barclays Pingit (even though, in fact, the app did win a number of awards in the UK).

I believe the recent edits and the resulting article are verifiable, neutral, broad, and (I hope!) well written. Thanks again for your careful review! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Intchar* (talk • contribs) 02:49, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Ok, lets hammer it out one item at a time top-down. I noticed the early life section was removed? CorporateM (Talk) 02:56, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Yes, I didn't think it was relevant that his father was a ear, throat, and nose doctor (but maybe readers want to know that kind of thing?). I believe he is Iranian, but I could not find any references that say where he actually grew up (other than that he was born in London). Overall, the Early Life section just didn't seem relevant, ... but we can add it back if you think it is. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Intchar* (talk • contribs) 03:14, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

user:CorporateM: I am going to have to drop for the eve. Let me know if you want to discuss any points in person, thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Intchar* (talk • contribs) 03:17, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

It's unlikely for any two editors to live in the same country and state such that in-person meetings are practical. However, we can talk on the phone if that's easier. Yah, we almost always have an Early life section when sources are available for it and it typically briefly mentions what their parents did for a living, as well as birthplace, education, where they grew up, etc. as part of a biographical profile. I do notice that the Wall Street Journal source that was cited just says "A 42-year-old native of Iran, Mr. Kheradpir came to the U.S. to earn bachelor's, master's and doctoral degrees in electrical engineering" so it is probably more accurate to the source to just say that he moved to the US from Iran and not state where he grew up. Do you mind restoring that section? Because I have a potential conflict of interest, I am not suppose to edit the article directly, myself. CorporateM (Talk) 03:31, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Sure, let me look at adding the Early life section back. Thanks. Intchar* (talk) 14:17, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Request edit

It is requested that an edit be made to the semi-protected article at A. (edit · history · last · links · protection log) This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y". The edit may be made by any autoconfirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{ESp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

Requesting someone restore the prior early life section, per the discussion above. It's a pretty default section for a BLP article, is sourced and neutral. CorporateM (Talk) 02:07, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Done. Intchar* (talk) 05:18, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks @user:Intchart*. I'm scrolling down the article now comparing the current version to the prior one and I see that a substantial amount of sourced content was removed regarding his tenure at Verizon. (see original here. For example, the original said that he led product development from the IT department, discussed some of the products his team created (iobi, Verizon One, FIOS), as well as his aggressive negotiating with vendors and out-sourcing to reduce costs. Any reason so much of it was removed? CorporateM (Talk) 07:13, 24 January 2015 (UTC)

Hi @user:CorporateM. I retained a lot of material on FiOS, but iobi & Verizon One seem to be short-lived products and don’t appear to be significant in his bio (e.g., the official iobi page http://www.verizon.com/iobi is no longer active). The part about aggressively negotiating with vendors is ok, but seems to be based on a single day’s visit with a reporter; since it doesn’t come out in any of the other references I didn’t think it was appropriate. Hope that helps, thanks. Intchar* (talk) 13:03, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Would you object to restoring this bit?: "In 2001 he formed small teams that were each responsible for coming up with and developing new product ideas. Kheradpir implemented a 30-day prototype cycle to rapidly test and modify new technologies in development. His team of approximately 7,000 staff often worked late hours, but getting a job at Verizon was still in high demand, due to the department's rapid pace of new product development." I don't think the product's failing in the marketplace are a good reason to omit them from the article. On the contrary, that is to be expected with a rapid experimentation model. CorporateM (Talk) 13:44, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

@user:CorporateM: Agreed, and done. Intchar* (talk) 19:37, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Thanks Intchar*. Working my way down the article, I also see the failed products (Verizone One and iobi) as well as staffing cuts and outsourcing were removed. I didn't think just because the products were unsuccessful in the marketplace was a good reason to remove them. On the contrary, its representative of the types of rapid experimentation he was conducting and such failures are always a cost associated with innovation. From the original:

In 2003 his team created iobi, which manages address books, caller ID and other features across devices. The Verizon One, a combination phone, router, modem and portable device, was developed from his department the following year.

From 2000 to 2003, he reduced IT staff by 20 percent and reduced purchasing from technology vendors by 30 percent. He negotiated aggressively with vendors to reduce prices and lobbied Verizon to eliminate its policy against purchasing IT equipment being auctioned on eBay by failed dot-com businesses. Many contract programming positions were out-sourced to lower-cost labor in India. Additionally, new software was installed that improved Verizon's utilization of IT hardware.

CorporateM (Talk) 19:59, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

@Intchar*: Just wanted to see if this was still on your radar. CorporateM (Talk) 20:07, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes CorporateM. Thanks for your suggestion, but I think the article has the proper amount of detail. The current Misplaced Pages article refers both to FiOS and the rapid development of other products. FiOS was a major multi-billion dollar program; the other products are interesting footnotes, but clearly not as big a part of the story. Further, the material you suggested adding contains references that already occur ten times in the existing article, so I think the interested reader could easily consult these sources for more detail. Intchar* (talk) 01:08, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Some additional content

It is requested that an edit be made to the semi-protected article at A. (edit · history · last · links · protection log) This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y". The edit may be made by any autoconfirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{ESp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

Around January 12, user:Intchar* removed some sourced, neutral content regarding some of the products Kheradpir led development of apparently under the rationale that they did not warrant inclusion since they were unsuccessful. I'd like to request the content be restored (see content below) at the end of the Verizon section.

Also I'd like to replace: "Kheradpir's group was instrumental in the creation of Verizon’s FiOS platform, including services such as FiOS TV." This sentence is promotional and not directly supported by the source. Instead, I'd like to replace it with the original: "Kheradpir's group also supported expansion of FIOS service, which extends fiber optic cabling to individual homes." CorporateM (Talk) 15:32, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

CorporateM: Thanks for the suggested edits, but I don't think it's promotional to say that Kheradpir's group was instrumental in the creation of FiOS. The FiOS platform required design and development of completely new IT systems for a completely new network. It could not have been created without in-depth, hands-on involvement of the IT team from beginning, i.e., the team headed by Kheradpir. The fact that Kheradpir hosted journalists at his home to talk about FiOS technology and services further demonstrates that he held a senior leadership role in the company for the development of FiOS. Intchar* (talk)

Inthcar, I understand what you're saying and maybe calling it promotional was a bit harsh, but all we can do on Misplaced Pages is repeat what is stated by credible, independent sources. In this case, the source just says that he hosted journalists at his house and not that his group actually founded FIOS. We need a source that directly supports the article-content, per WP:BLP, among other policies. CorporateM (Talk) 05:15, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

I was asked by CorporateM to take a look at this discussion. I have no interest in this person and I know very little about the field. But I do know and care about Misplaced Pages's policies, above all Neutrality and Verifiability. CorporateM has raised two issues above. 1) I can see no reason to remove the two sourced sentences in the collapsed box above, and Intchar didn't provide any reason in an edit summary. Would you care to explain why you think this sourced information should be deleted? 2) As to whether he was "instrumental" in developing FiOS, the sources don't directly use that word but they certainly suggest he personally played a big role, if not in creating it, then certainly in promoting it. As he was head of IT it might be reasonable to say that his group developed it. Can we find some way of describing his role that is in agreement with the sources? (I deleted one of the three sources in the lead because it didn't mention him.) --MelanieN (talk) 20:37, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi @MelanieN: You'll see in the Request Edit at the top of this string that I proposed the following sentence: "Kheradpir's group also supported expansion of FIOS service, which extends fiber optic cabling to individual homes." I don't have public URLs for the sources (library access), but the SD Times source says "His current pet project is the nationwide deployment of 'FIOS,'" and the Infoworld source says "and contributed to the development of Verizon's FiOS fiber optic video initiative" CorporateM (Talk) 23:24, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

1. ^ Margulius, David (December 4, 2006). "Entrepreneurial IT". InfoWorld.
2. Handy, Alex (November 15, 2006). "Dialing Into Verizon's Development". Software Development Times.
3. Handy, Alex (November 15, 2006). "Dialing Into Verizon's Development". Software Development Times.

I am not here to be the decision maker about what should go in the article. I am here to see that Misplaced Pages's policies are upheld and to encourage the two of you to agree on what the article should say. @Intchar*:, can you please contribute to this discussion? --MelanieN (talk) 23:30, 16 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for your help, @MelanieN:. I’ll do my best to explain the changes.

On point #1, note that the current article refers both to FiOS and the rapid development of other products. But whereas FiOS was a major multi-billion dollar program, the other products mentioned are more like interesting footnotes, clearly not a big part of the story. If the article listed every product Kheradpir had a hand in, I’m sure it would become unmanageably long. Further, the material CorporateM suggested adding contains references that already occur ten times in the existing article. I think the interested reader can easily consult these sources if interested in more detail.

On point #2, I think it’s fairly self-evident that the CIO of Verizon must have been instrumental in delivery of a service like FiOS. But in the interest of adding a clear reference, we can use this one: http://www.itworld.com/article/2822906/business/128425-New-Juniper-CEO-Meet-the-real-Shaygan-Kheradpir.html#slide4, which says “Kheradpir is ... credited with leading the team that brought Verizon’s FiOS Internet/voice/cable network to the public.” Intchar* (talk) 18:12, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

On Misplaced Pages, we just repeat what the sources say. For example, your source above just says his team "brought... FIOS... to the public", not that they invented it. This seems pretty consistent among all the sources we have discussed thus far; they explain that his team helped FIOS get implemented, but they do not credit his department as the sole inventor. CorporateM (Talk) 14:56, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

The result from the jury is in: The sourced content about iobi is in; whether something is an interesting footnote or not, if it's reliably verified (suggesting that it is more than a footnote) one needs a much better reason for exclusion. As for the "supporting" or "group is credited with", the solution is quite simple: if Intchar*'s source for that last quote is reliable, just use the quote, properly incorporated in the sentence--or some variety of "brought to the public", which strikes me as just about the same. One of you please implement it, and no hanky panky. Drmies (talk) 01:23, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

 Done. I know it sounds childish @Drmies:, but since I'm not allowed to edit the article and we were just arguing in circles, a clear and unambiguous decision from an impartial party is really needed. CorporateM (Talk) 02:52, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

My decision is quite clear and unambiguous, if I say so myself. But I don't understand why you're pinging me, Corp--you made the edit, it looks good to me. In fact, I spent ten minutes looking around to find someone to make the edit since it wasn't clear to me you'd done it already, and I do not think it's kosher for a closer to do that themselves, this being much more an RfC than an edit request. Are we good? Drmies (talk) 02:57, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

You said "One of you please implement it", so I went ahead and made the corresponding changes and started another point of discussion below. I didn't mean the ping to imply that any further action was needed for this item. CorporateM (Talk) 03:34, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

Working down the article

It is requested that an edit be made to the semi-protected article at A. (edit · history · last · links · protection log) This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y". The edit may be made by any autoconfirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{ESp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

The original draft contained sourced, neutral information about layoffs and outsourcing led by Kheradpir and other efforts to reduce costs at Verizon. This kind of cost-savings strategy seems to be the main thing Kheradpir is known for (mostly in a good way; sources focus on the cost-savings not the jobs lost). I'd like to request the below sourced information be restored. @Intchar*: can you explain what the rationale was for removing it? CorporateM (Talk) 03:01, 23 February 2015 (UTC)

• Where is it supposed to go? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:33, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

@Crisco 1492: I would tack it on the last paragraph of the Verizon section. CorporateM (Talk) 15:35, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

• Done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 15:39, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

Thanks @Crisco 1492:! I think you literally just knocked out all of my pending request edits, which is refreshing after spending so much time begging and pleading folks to look at just one. I made a couple tweaks and cleanup items like adding logos, paragraphing, fixing citation errors, etc. after various Request Edits.

This is the only article where there are still a couple items top-of-mind and I was wondering if I could hold your attention for just a few more minutes for a couple quick requests that should make the page ready for that GA review it's in the queue for and address all the COI edits made by the SPA:

• This section can probably be removed entirely, being that it is exclusively made up of original research and primary sources.
• I'd also like to suggest restoring the prior version of the Lead. The current version includes information that was already removed from the body of the article, because the sources do not actually support the article-text. For example this source on PingIt does not actually mention Kheradpir.

CorporateM (Talk) 16:50, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

• Not sure about the primary sourced content. It's allowed for non-controversial things, and membership on this council or that isn't quite controversial. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:53, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

• @Crisco 1492: Fair enough, but the first sentence and the last two aren't sourced at all. The listed reason for being included in the CIO ranking "for early adoption of consumer IT both within the enterprise and for the external market" isn't actually supported by the source either. If you're willing to cleanup the unsourced stuff, I can put the primary sources in proper templates as non-controversial edits. Then just the Lead would remain. CorporateM (Talk) 00:43, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

• Uncited content removed. What do you plan on doing with the cited content in the lead? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:06, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

@Crisco 1492: As far as I can tell almost nothing in the Lead is actually sourced, but is just made to look that way. For example, the first two cites are the same source and it just says that he spoke with journalists about FIOS, not that he played a "major" role in it. Cite 4 doesn't even mention Kheradpir, though cite 3 seems usable. Cite 5 is a press release and I'm pretty sure none of those sources actually say he was one of the first to note the consumerization of IT, because in prior discussions about the body of the page, no sources were provided that actually supported this statement, rather than just quotes from him about it. I would just restore the prior Lead as the current one is misleading. CorporateM (Talk) 02:14, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

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