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Korea Start‑class Mid‑importance

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Biography Start‑class

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Freedom-fighter

I marvel at the non-stop vandalism of this article, and even of the Talk Page, to prevent ANY mention of Ms. Park's full-time status and job as a libertarian, freedom-fighter, pro-liberty reformer, and human rights activist for North Korea. Gross incompetence and bias rules here. I love it! :-) KyZan (talk) 21:00, 25 November 2014 (UTC)KyZan

Within this blog post is a letter sent from Yeonmi Park that clearly advocates in favor of sanctions. True libertarians, by definition, support free market empowerment everywhere. That said, Park does not fit the definition of a libertarian due to her support of sanctions. 71.163.96.120 (talk) 05:41, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

our interpretation of her actions (or letters she may have posted) and our definitions of political philosophies are irrelevant. If reliable sources have identified her positions as X, then we do as well. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 12:53, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for your response. I'm not sure what you mean, but my logic for the inclusion of the "Sanctions Support Letter" is that; if it is good enough to submit as evidence in a court of law, then it should be good enough to submit to dispute misinformation on this Misplaced Pages page. MikeJB79 (talk) 19:33, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Bassett

FYI, Mike Bassett has recently been on a one man crusade against Yeon Mi Park and has taken to editing her wikipedia entry to include his conspiracy theories. While I think a criticism section is certainly warranted, I took the liberty of removing the last couple paragraphs Mike added, which were basically him repeating his criticisms in the third person. Hope that is okay. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.122.127.226 (talk) 05:17, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

The criticism section should be examined for its flagrant lies and half-truths.

>>"Michael Bassett, who spent several years stationed at the demilitarized zone between North and South Korea"

Casey Lartigue: Is this relevant? This is a page about Yeon-mi Park, not for Bassett to promote himself.

>>"- and has graduate degrees in both international communications and North Korean affairs -"

Casey Lartigue: Should Bassett upload his resume to this page?

>>"claimed that Park was an opportunist, profiteer, and a spokesperson"

Casey Lartigue: Is this appropriate for a balanced Misplaced Pages page?

>>" being fed a narrative"

Casey Lartigue: not appropriate.

>>""

Casey Lartigue: not a credible source, the writer has linked to his own articles.

>>"Bassett refutes that this claim further supports his, citing the fact that he published a response to the harshest critics of his claims against her, and that Yeon-mi and her manager Casey Lartigue"

Casey Lartigue: What is the author's evidence that Casey Lartigue is her manager? Casey Lartigue, who is not her manager, is asking this.

>> have "hostilely stonewalled" all media that that have approached them to question the validity of his criticisms."

Casey Lartigue: In truth, his stupid charges haven't been worth responding to.

>> Additionally, Casey and Yeon-mi have combatively refused to address criticisms of their political and personal agenda's to anyone.

Casey Lartigue: Hello, Misplaced Pages. This page should be watched.

>>"Bassett claims that Yeon-mi treats the conflict as if it is "there for her entertainment"; citing the fact that she has never explained why she supports sanctions despite being a self-proclaimed libertarian who wants to promote freedom in North Korea."

Casey Lartigue: That is such a stupid loaded statement, it should be deleted.

>> He claims that her "human rights agenda" (as evidenced by her speech at One Young World) is a fabrication because her recommendations had nothing to do with improving conditions in North Korea, and everything to do with promoting the agenda's he accuses her of having.

Casey Lartigue: This is not appropriate as balanced criticism.

>> Lastly, Basset argues that her only true agenda is to further her celebrity status

Casey Lartigue: That's for an editorial, not for a Wiki page.

>> - which he claims she achieves through highly-orchestrated sensational, melodramatic, and emotionally-gripping performances.

Casey Lartigue: He is entitled to his own opinion, but it should be on his own Misplaced Pages page.

>> Hi guys I've deleted the criticism section of the article if that's okay?

Reliable Sources?

At present the article contains this: "Michael Bassett, who spent several years stationed at the demilitarized zone between North and South Korea - and has graduate degrees in both international communications and North Korean affairs - claimed that Park was an opportunist, profiteer, and a spokesperson being fed a narrative meant to bolster the case for H. R. 1771 (a law that would impose sanctions against the Kim regime)"

Do Michael's opinions meet wiki standards for reliable sources and does his opinion qualify as a "significant" minority view? https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources "Misplaced Pages articles should be based on reliable, published sources, making sure that all majority and significant minority views that have appeared in those sources are covered (see Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view)" PeterDaley72 (talk) 12:35, 3 November 2014 (UTC)Peter Daley

Given the fact that he is not a scholar of any significance, but just seems to be a guy with a personal grudge against Yeon mi Park, I would recommend taking him out. To be honest, I trimmed down the criticism page last night and now see it has turned into an incoherent, overly long screed today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.122.127.226 (talk) 15:05, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Aside from this talk about Bassett, this page could benefit from better attribution to the statements and testimony of Park. I will continue to add sources as I come across them. I have not edited a page on here before, but my experience in copy-editing led me to conclude that the person who last edited this article is not a native English speaker. Also, the header criticism of the neutrality of the page seems insensitive to the material with which we are dealing. I am not Bassett--I feel odd questioning this story in his manner, and I think that if someone is coming to this page to find out what happened to Park and her family, there is no need to numb the details of the case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Julianacohen (talk • contribs) 11:37, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

You're correct about the native English speaker part, although it was a good start and we appreciate their work. I've done a bit of editing, but feel free to add more as it could use more editing and sources. Just be sure to look at how other references are formatted- I went through the ones in this article and named redundant ones to make the references section look cleaner. Feel free to ask questions if need be, and on this talk page be sure to sign your posts by adding four tildes at the end. Tonystewart14 (talk) 14:32, 23 December 2014 (UTC)

Criticism section

The criticism section has turned into an overly long, unreadable screed, much of it with information only tangentially connected to Yeon Mi Park. While I feel a brief criticism section could be warranted, most of what is there now can be deleted. Mike Bassett is not a notable North Korea scholar, and he is using this page as a platform to air his personal grievances, which is absolutely unacceptable as per wikipedia's quality standards.

Content sourced to Bassett's blogs has been removed per WP:BLPSPS. --NeilN 16:31, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

• I've edited it as well. I've removed a lot of material that was soapboxing as well as some phrasing that could otherwise be seen as non-neutral or SPS to some degree. I've also asked for the page to be temporarily semi protected due to the IP edits. I'd protect it myself but I want to ensure that there is no potential COI here since I've done some fairly heavy editing to the page. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 16:40, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
  • I saw that. Pretty obvious WP:COATRACK. --NeilN 16:42, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

• BTW, thank you for stepping in here! I've given you a cookie, but I should probably give you a barnstar as well. Tokyogirl79 (｡◕‿◕｡) 16:55, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

The Korea Observer is NOT one of my blogs. It is a reputable South Korean source. I am requesting that the following be entered into Bassett criticism section following the last sentence: Bassett responded to criticisms from Yeon-mi and supporters in a publication through the Korea Observer.

To refuse this edit is legal ground for censorship - as it is not soapboxing, vitriol, or subjective. It proves that I have not only been engaging, but made my best efforts to explain my criticisms. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MikeJB79 (talk • contribs)

Oh for God's sake Mike, just because we don't feel this is an appropriate forum for your personal feelings and rants it doesn't mean anyone is "censoring" you (and it is certainly not "legal grounds" for anything). Misplaced Pages is for unbiased, objective information, not for everyone to get their "side" and personal views out there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.122.127.226 (talk) 20:33, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Further, would someone be so kind as to edit out the "spinstress" comment he added? That is not only biased and irrelevant but sexist. 38.122.127.226 (talk) 20:43, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Both of you need to realize this article and talk page are not your personal playground. Go find a forum if you want to squabble with each other. MikeJB79, we're not going to detail your tit-for-tat responses. IP, "spinstress" is a criticism and not exactly supposed to be flattering to the subject. --NeilN 21:02, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

My apologies, I started out just trying to keep the article objective and tidy, but perhaps let my personal annoyance with what he was doing shine through (you can probably tell I don't edit very often, I only found my way here after he started bragging about defacing the article). Anyway, sorry once again, and thank you for helping to keep the article up to standard! 38.122.127.226 (talk) 21:24, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

I did not put the word "spinstress" in. It was taken from my blog. The only points I included were for the purpose of highlighting my criticisms in an objective manner, embodying them for what they really are, not the misrepresented fashion they've portrayed me. That is simply why I have requested that my actual Korea Observer, Fair Observer, or SinoNK pieces be cited, rather than anything from my blog or the blogs of others. I request that defaming portrayals of me be stricken and my criticism section (if it must remain) actually quote citations from my publications. I am not trying to turn this into a "playground" and I apologize if it has come across that way. I am merely requesting that I be represented fairly, or not at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MikeJB79 (talk • contribs)

Please do not insert your posts in the middle of others and please sign your posts by adding ~~~~ to the end. We need to see who said what. "Spinstress" was not sourced from your blog, it was sourced from here. Defamation has to do with incorrect facts as you probably know, not fair comment and criticism. I'd be very careful using that word on Misplaced Pages as any hint of legal action is severely frowned upon. --NeilN 22:45, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Roger, got it. What I'm saying, is that I did not post that word here, and that John Powers did not get it from our interview. I never mentioned that word in our interview. He took it from my blog. Again, I am requesting that my criticisms be represented factually or not at all. Powers piece in the Diplomat is not considered a source of my views because he quoted nothing from our interview - which I have a transcript from because I recorded it. That said, I ask that it be stricken. Lastly, if you are unwilling to cite publications from which I am the actual author (Korea Observer, Fair Observer, or SinoNK pieces) than I request that you strike my name entirely from the criticisms section. MikeJB79 (talk) 23:41, 3 November 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by MikeJB79 (talk • contribs) 23:39, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Previous comment mine, forgot to sign. Mike Bassett. MikeJB79 (talk) 23:42, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Tokyogirl79, your thoughts? I'm against using sources where Bassett is the author as we should have secondary sources to determine weight. Removal of the entire criticism is also unappealing as it provides a balancing viewpoint. --NeilN 00:04, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Dear administrator, if you are going to quote me then quote publications through reputable sources that have been copy-edited and peer-reviewed, such as Korea Observer, Fair Observer, or SinoNK. If you cannot honor this request then please remove me from the section. Again, I can prove that the media has quoted my blog (Peace|Wager), and everyone here agrees that my blog is not a reputable source. MikeJB79 (talk) 00:21, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes, your request has been noted and will be discussed by other editors. --NeilN 00:23, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Not really relevant to the issue, but how is The Korean Observer peer-reviewed? It's not a scientific journal. 211.207.241.232 (talk) 00:35, 4 November 2014 (UTC)Peter Daley

Point taken. But my request remains. Please portray my view accurately or not at all. Respectfully, MikeJB79 (talk) 00:39, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

So your blog isn't an accurate portrayal of your views? I understand your point about John using material from your site and not from the interview, but they are still your words, right? Regarding Wiki's standards, I would say your views (no offense) represent an insignificant minority view as opposed to the "significant" minority view required for Wiki sources. 211.207.241.232 (talk) 00:53, 4 November 2014 (UTC)Peter Daley 211.207.241.232 (talk) 00:53, 4 November 2014 (UTC)Peter Daley

My blog is a personal space where eI am sometimes being snarky, joking, cynical, or what have you. It is not a credible source. What would make you think my blog is more credible tun Korea Observer, Fair Observer, or SinoNK? Those are actually edited by people with years in journalism or academia and have advanced degrees. Again, I expect that my request to have my professional opinion as published in either of those three sources cited to accurately represent my views, or else to have my name stricken from the section. Regardless, I have friends who are journalists and are covering this story and I have copy and pasted this conversation so ultimately, the integrity of the site will be judged by the action taken by its administrators. From hereon, I am a spectator. I will enjoy watching whatever you decide to do. Respectfully, MikeJB79 (talk) 01:00, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

I agree your blog isn't a credible source. Hence, my opinion that your views are not significant enough to meet Wiki's source criteria. I actually know the owner of The Korean Observer. I'll ask him how vigorous his editing/peer-reviewing was of your article. I suspect he just published it as is, but I'm not sure that's relevant to this discussion. In the end your views are your views where ever they are expressed. However colorful and relaxed your blog posts are, you really can't argue that they aren't your views. If not yours, then who's? Rhetorical question. Sure, I can understand you wanting to sound more professional when publish elsewhere... perhaps that's what you meant? Also not relevant is discussion about what John Powers put into his article and hence which parts of that article belong here on Wiki. Your issues about that should be discussed with John and his editor. It isn't the role of Wiki to determine what should or shouldn't have appeared in a journalist's article. Also irrelevant is who you are showing this page to. The integrity of the article will be judged by Wiki editors using Misplaced Pages's guidelines as ... guidelines^. That's it. Again, I maintain your views are not significant enough to warrant inclusion according to Misplaced Pages's guidelines. Nor are mine. I wouldn't dream of adding to this page "Michael thinks Yeon-mi's tears were faked, but Peter Daley disagrees." So what? That's about as relevant to Yeon-mi's Misplaced Pages page as today's weather.

The vast majority of articles make no mention of your own and similiar criticisms (perhaps because, as you said, your blog isn't credible^) and Yeon-mi's accounts are entirely consistent with other accounts, articles, and books provided by other defectors.

Hi to Michael's journalist friends. Please feel free to join the discussion, and if you deem these discussions worthy of mention in future articles, please let me know. I'd be happy to contribute. And Michael, just some personal advice. Don't put material on your blog you are not prepared to stand by. Be proud and sure of every word, so that if your blog is quoted without your permission in the future, you will not be concerned in the least; rather, you will be pleased and grateful. PeterDaley72 (talk) 02:07, 4 November 2014 (UTC)Peter Daley

I stand by my words in my blog, but I am saying that it doesn't have the credibility to meet Wiki guidelines. Further, the selectivity of what you have used in my criticisms section, is not accurately representative of my view. I would gladly provide you a more accurate representation, as I attempted to do before this page was restricted and my edits revised. My message in sum, is that I believe Yeon-mi is young and naive, and seeking fame and fortune - and that her narratives do nothing to help the 24 million still oppressed inside North Korea. Everything I've written has consistently repeated criticisms of individuals or policies that are counter-productive to achieving liberty for the oppressed in North Korea. So again, if you are not willing to represent my views accurately to a similar effect, than I request that you strike my name from the criticisms section because you are MISREPRESENTING my views. Respectfully,MikeJB79 (talk) 02:19, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

For the record, I've made no edits to the page. The bottom line is you don't believe aspects of her story. Fair enough. I would just argue that's for your blog and is not significant enough for Wiki. Likewise Felix Abt's criticisms at present on the page appear to concern one statement that may have been misunderstood. One statement from her hours and hours of interviews. And it's a statement consistent with other testimonies. How is Feliz's skepticism Wiki-worthy? Again, the material in John's articles can be added here if editors agree it meets Wiki's guidelines. I personally don't agree, but I don't think it should be removed simply because the quotes appeared in John's article without your permission. That's between you and him. If those comments were removed from the article, that would perhaps be another matter. PeterDaley72 (talk) 02:32, 4 November 2014 (UTC)Peter Daley

To the Misplaced Pages editors, Peter Daley is a personal acquaintance of Casey Lartigues, which represents the potential for bias based on personal agenda and loyalty to his friend who he teaches refugees for. For this reason I request that his commentary be rejected from the process to decide whether or not to honor my request to either represent my view as it is, or to totally strike it from the page. In addition, any future commentators who have similar points that argue against representing my views - as I have not only published them, but specified them herein, be stricken as character assassination campaigns against me by those who do not agree or understand my point of view. Respectfully, MikeJB79 (talk) 02:46, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

There's no bias or personal agenda. I just don't think your views are Wiki-worthy. Misplaced Pages guidelines specify a source must at least represent a significant minority view. I just don't think the word significant applies to your views on the subject. They appear on your blog, in two pieces you wrote, and in one article that you take issue with because your blog was quoted^. I have some experience with wiki sites concerning Korean cults of personality, but not enough wiki experience to go in and make edits about this issue. Hence, I brought it up on the Talk page. That's what this page is for. I certainly haven't engaged in any character assassination here. I don't think you get to make demands about what appears here. I could be wrong, but I don't think that's the way Wiki works. But it will be interesting to hear what more experienced editors have to say. PeterDaley72 (talk) 03:05, 4 November 2014 (UTC)Peter Daley

This experienced editor thinks the current version of the article is okay but I've pinged another editor to come give her feedback. Patience is called for. Check back in a couple days. --NeilN 03:14, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

I am not going to stop pursuing this issue until you stop MISREPRESENTING my views. I am sitting here telling you what my views are and you are trusting a biased journalist over a primary source! If you do not edit the section to represent my views as they are then I am going to request that you strike my name from the section. Again, My view is that Yeon-mi is a naive girl who is seeking fame and it is damaging to the 24 million Norht Koreans still in the country. If you publish anything else then you are MISREPRESENTING me. MikeJB79 (talk) 03:28, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Mike Barrett wants to be free to slap conspiracy theories and disinformation on refugees pages without allowing for contextualisation or refutation. It amounts to the freedom to slander without rebuttal. That is not free speech. He wants the right to say what he wants without someone contradicting him.

In truth, every word of Mike Barrett's work shows one consistent fact: he's deeply sympathetic to the North Korean regime, his work amounts to apologies for its actions, and the most common image of him on the Internet is a photo of him gleefully embracing a North Korean soldier.

The North Korean government is known for grotesque persecution of its opponents and the murder of refugees who speak out. Here's the question: Is Mike Bassett allowed to criticize yeonmi park without owning up to the context of his remarks?

He should not be permitted to do the work of the North Korean propaganda department without at least being challenged on it. Worse, he should not be able to slander otherwise innocent North Korean refugees with fairy tales and completely unjustified criticism, without evidence of any kind whatsoever.

If yeonmi is going to be open to criticism of his sort, that criticism had to be contextualized or it amounts to giving the North Korean government a new propaganda arm and tool with which to victimize this woman further.

This is fairness and free speech: Either the full and morally dubious context of his remarks should be made clear or any reference to him or his criticism should be removed from the page.

Is it too much to to ask that the critic be able to swallow his own medicine,especially when he's on a personal propaganda campaign?

+ If Bassett has the right to throw conspiracy theories on someone's page, there needs to be a response to the author of those conspiracy theories. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarcusPriscusCato (talk contribs) 05:12, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

If Bassett wants to make comments in the full light of day, let him make them - in the full light of day, with the context of his comments fully realized. If he's unwilling to do this, and to own and sign and stand in the light of scrutiny, then he shouldn't be permitted to make such comments. It amounts to cowardly propaganda: He gets to shoot like a sniper from the sidelines, and then retreat into silent anonymity. He even denies readers the right to know why and where get gets his position. That's grossly unfair. Free speech means that he opens himself up to criticism when he criticizes. You can't have it one way without the other.MarcusPriscusCato (talk) 05:46, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi "Marcus" - as the administrator mentioned, this is not a forum for tit-for-tat. I have a blog and you can engage me there. Additionally, it is beyond obvious that you have not read anything I've ever written. Respectfully, MikeJB79 (talk) 05:54, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Basically, none of this is Misplaced Pages worthy. The whole section on Criticism is little more than two relatively obscure personalities with highly politicized personal agendas attacking each other using Misplaced Pages as a platform, and none of it is substantive, significant, newsworthy, or informative. Who cares if someone called her names, and who cares what names she called him in response? If you leave that Criticism section in the article, Misplaced Pages is somehow complicit in the continuation of this overblown Facebook flame war between Mike Bassett and Casey Lartigue, and the gross exaggeration of their personal significance... Frankly, I think only those two people find this to be remotely substantive or meaningful at this point... All it really does is elevate and advertise both of their agendas far beyond their actual substance. You should delete it... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.106.115.253 (talk) 18:20, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

The page is still problematic. As it stands now the only "reactions" are two guys who think she's a liar. One of whom just apologised and asked to work with her: http://thepeacewager.org/2014/11/04/a-letter-to-yeon-mi-park/ The other it seems concerns a misunderstanding. Further comments from seasoned wikipedia authors appreciated. To quote from the wiki guidelines: Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. PeterDaley72 (talk) 15:05, 6 November 2014 (UTC)Peter Daley

The reactions are not poorly sourced. If you wish to add supportive reactions, please provide sources that cover these. --NeilN 15:10, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Neil, will do over the weekend. What about the 'significant minority' guideline. Can those two men be considered representative of a "significant" minority when one has subsequently apologized and the accusation of the other was based on a misunderstanding? Slightly baffled and bemused^. PeterDaley72 (talk) 16:20, 6 November 2014 (UTC)Peter Daley

>> Hi guys I've deleted the criticism section of the article if that's okay?

This recent article by Mary Ann Jolley, "The Strange Tale of Yeonmi Park," should be included because articles from the same source (The Diplomat) were previously deemed credible enough sources for this site. 71.163.96.120 (talk) 04:55, 15 December 2014 (UTC)71.163.96.120 (talk) 05:25, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

References

1. http://thepeacewager.org/2014/10/
2. Bassett, Michael (October 30, 2014). "Mike's answers to 10 questions regarding his article Casey and Yeon-mi 'Puppet' Show". Retrieved November 3, 2014.
3. http://thediplomat.com/2014/12/the-strange-tale-of-yeonmi-park/

Latest addition

While the latest edit might have some good content, it has the same problems as the material Tokyogirl79 trimmed back - non-neutral wording, coatracking, and soapboxing. A condensed, properly written version may be a worthwhile addition. --NeilN 11:59, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

I did some copyediting and did reference work in the past. I took most of the early life part out as it wasn't relevant, although some of it could be moved to other sections. I'm hoping that we can resolve some of the banner issues at the top of the article soon. Feel free to take a look and let me know what you think.

I'm also unsure what the "undue weight" banner above Travel Abroad refers to, so if you could clarify that for me, I'd appreciate it. Tonystewart14 (talk) 05:16, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Freedom

This article continues to be grossly incompetent and inaccurate. Park is a full time human rights activist. The article needs to mention that. Evil people with a pro-North Korea and pro-communist agenda shouldn't be allowed to censor freely -- as my mild Talk remarks were yesterday. KyZan (talk) 17:01, 20 November 2014 (UTC)KyZan

Need some help

l need more information on how Yeonmi escaped North Korea. Two paragraphs aren't enough, so I decided to add factual and accurate information from my research about her escape. I would also like help from the editors for the article. Please do not make my hard work die in vain, trust me my research is more accurate with my recent quick fixes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Koreanidentity10000 (talk • contribs)

@Koreanidentity10000: You have turned this article into a non-neutral hagiography which needs to be substantially trimmed and fixed. I will take a stab at this in a couple days. --NeilN 05:16, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Hanja

Where is the source for the Hanja? --Christian140 (talk) 17:37, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Park Ye-ju

It can be noted that, at the beginning of "Now on my Way to Meet You" 이제 만나로 갑니다 of Channel A, she used the name "Park Ye-ju" 박예주. https://www.facebook.com/OfficialYeonmiPark/photos/pb.618442664940496.-2207520000.1419532462./629643247153771/?type=3&theater --Christian140 (talk) 18:42, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Background Discrepancies

The neutrality of this article is disputed. Relevant discussion may be found on the talk page. Please do not remove this message until conditions to do so are met. (Learn how and when to remove this message)

I'm disputing and flagging the neutrality of this page due to the fact that one editor (TRPoD AKA The Red Pen of Doom) has repeatedly referred to insertions of articles that increase the accuracy of YeonMi Parks background, or dispute elements of it as "accusations." Sources such as NK News and The Diplomat are widely respected sources and actually, any analysis that holds water airtight should be taken into consideration for the accuracy of this page. This page is not a court of public opinion, it is an online dictionary and therefore should be as neutral as humanly possible and include as many sources as are available. Nobody should not be ordered to stop striving for accuracy. MikeJB79 (talk) 06:46, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

The following lengthy analysis - - posted on Scribd by Park Joo compares contradictory stories that YeonMi told about her background. The analysis concludes that those surrounding her such as Casey Lartigue, sponsoring organizations, and the media pressured Park to exaggerate and/or lie. According to this analysis YeonMi was willing to do so because she felt ostracized by other defectors who had substantially worse experiences than her in North Korea, which is why before she rose to fame she seemingly promoted a narrative of engaging North Korea, which is unpopular with most defectors. MikeJB79 (talk) 07:07, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

blog posts are not acceptable sources for controversial claims about a living person. WP:RS / WP:BLP -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 07:14, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

That was not a blog post. It was a media analysis published on Scribd that cited exact contradictory quotes from YeonMi that were published by multiple mainstream media outlets. A quote is a quote whatever the source. If it would hold up in a court of law, it should hold up on Misplaced Pages. The talk section of this page highlights and contradicts the monopoly on information in her actual page, and discredits Misplaced Pages's validity as a whole. I have screen shots from when my own personal blog was cited to lambaste me here. Suddenly now that my argument has been furthered in a water tight way, the bar is raised on sourcing? The editorial process of this page deserves the objectivity required to give Misplaced Pages the credibility that it strives for. Especially considering the fact that her hagiography is of utmost importance. The Scribd publication "YeonMi Park: The Defector Who Fooled The World" should stay. MikeJB79 (talk) 10:12, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Yes, it is like an open letter to Park Yeonmi. However, everyone could do something like this. So, I also have the opinion, it is not a proper source for Misplaced Pages. Nevertheless, what can be done is the same what Park Joo did in his letter. Since there are plenty of inconsistencies, they all could be shown in her biography. For example: "Park, her mother and her father, together fled to China. In other interviews/On the xyz summit, Park stated, that she and her mother crossed a frozen river and three mountains to get into the Chinese border. Park’s father stayed behind in North Korea, thinking his illness would slow them down."... Something like this. If you know what I mean. Cause then, all the original sources would be used. If think it could also be mentioned that Park has many critics and many accuse her of lying... I think Felix Abt is mentioned in many defector articles... So, there shouldn't be a problem. --Christian140 (talk) 11:41, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

The China section contains claims about YeonMi's mother being raped in front of her. In this NK News piece "Why Defectors Change their Stories" another defector argues that this claim is likely a lie: http://www.nknews.org/2015/01/why-defectors-change-their-stories/ MikeJB79 (talk) 02:56, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

We dont care that random people imply that a living person is a liar. WP:BLP Please stop pushing such accusations on the talk page. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 03:33, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Article to be removed, as it's based on an arbitrary selection of one narrative version by Park Yeon-mi out of several contradictory ones

Since Park Yeon-mi gave various conflicting versions of her life story the article, based on an arbitrary selection of quotes, becomes meaningless and should be deleted, see the conflicting claims by Park Yeonmi. All her conflicting quotes together with the exact sources are listed here: Yeonmi Park: The defector who fooled the world Economia1 (talk) 07:47, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

No Neutrality on North Korea

As with Shin Dong-hyuk, there seems a pretty obvious attempt by Misplaced Pages editors to censor anything that detracts from the credibility of these defectors and their unbelievable and inconsistent stories.--Jack Upland (talk) 06:11, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Any particular diffs that show censorship? Note that this article was created recently and has not fully matured. It already has a NPOV tag, but keep in mind that the article is about Park Yeon-mi and not about defectors in general or credibility of other defectors. Tonystewart14 (talk) 07:12, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

North Korean response

The response of the North Korean side published by Uriminzokkiri is actually quite relevant: http://www.nknews.org/2015/01/n-korean-video-takes-on-yeonmi-park-claims/ . Park Yeonmi's response is of course also relevant. I would write it by myself, but don't have much time these days. --Christian140 (talk) 10:05, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

I added 4 sources (2 by media, 1 by the Korean association in Ireland and the video discussed above) t show that there are a lot of people believing that Park is lying. -- Magioladitis (talk) 09:45, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

That's completely not what your wording indicated and your edit summary, "2sources prove she is a liar", seems to suggest you are editing with an agenda. --NeilN 09:58, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

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