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Revision as of 14:21, 27 May 2015 edit79.223.26.113 (talk) Quote from Misplaced Pages:Talk page guidelines#Others'27 comments: new section← Previous edit Revision as of 14:25, 27 May 2015 edit undoWesley Wolf (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers42,740 edits Reverted good faith edits by 79.223.26.113 (talk): Piss off you little twerp. (TW)Next edit →
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==Perrelli== ==Perrelli==
First of all, what do you say about Måns win? :) I think it was the right song that won. Really strong performance. Anyway, if you got time for it please take a look at the ] article and see if there are any improvement that can be done. Appreciate it. Thanks.--] (]) 18:56, 26 May 2015 (UTC) First of all, what do you say about Måns win? :) I think it was the right song that won. Really strong performance. Anyway, if you got time for it please take a look at the ] article and see if there are any improvement that can be done. Appreciate it. Thanks.--] (]) 18:56, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

== Quote from ] ==

"'''Never''' edit or move someone's comment to change its meaning, even on your own talk page. Striking text constitutes a change in meaning, and should only be done by the user who wrote it or someone acting at their explicit request." (Emphasis in the original)-] (]) 14:21, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Revision as of 14:25, 27 May 2015

User:Wesley Wolf     User talk:Wesley Wolf     User:Wesley Wolf/Awards     User:Wesley Wolf/Awards2     Special:Contributions/Wesley Wolf     User:Wesley Wolf/sandbox     Commons:User:Wesley Wolf     Special:Emailuser/Wesley Wolf    
 
 
Wesley     Talk     Awards     WikiLove     Contributions     Sandbox     Commons     Email     Time

This user contributed towards Eurovision Song Contest 2012, which became a Good Article on 16 July 2012. This user wrote ABU Radio Song Festival 2012, which became a Good Article on 11 February 2013. This user wrote ABU TV Song Festival 2012, which became a Good Article on 24 March 2013. Wesley Mouse appeared in a Signpost interview on 7 May 2014. This user contributed towards Eurovision Song Contest 2013, which became a Good Article on 14 November 2013 This user got Eurovision Young Musicians 1982, included in Did you Know? on 12 October 2014. This user contributed towards Eurovision Song Contest 2014, which became a Good Article on 6 November 2014 This user contributed towards Eurovision Song Contest 2012, which became an A-class Article on 7 November 2014. This user got Eurovision Song Contest 2014, included in Did you Know? on 26 November 2014. This user got Pan Celtic Festival, included in Did you Know? on 27 May 2015. This user contributed towards Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2014, which became a Good Article on 9 July 2015. This user got Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2014, included in Did you Know? on 23 July 2015. This user wrote Eurovision Song Contest's Greatest Hits, which became a Good Article on 20 September 2015. This user contributed significantly towards Pan Celtic Festival, which became a Good Article on 16 October 2015.
This is Wesley Wolf's talk page, where you can send him messages and comments.
User:Wesley Wolf     User talk:Wesley Wolf     User:Wesley Wolf/Awards     User:Wesley Wolf/Awards2     Special:Contributions/Wesley Wolf     User:Wesley Wolf/sandbox     Commons:User:Wesley Wolf     Special:Emailuser/Wesley Wolf    
 
 
Wesley     Talk     Awards     WikiLove     Contributions     Sandbox     Commons     Email     Time

This user contributed towards Eurovision Song Contest 2012, which became a Good Article on 16 July 2012. This user wrote ABU Radio Song Festival 2012, which became a Good Article on 11 February 2013. This user wrote ABU TV Song Festival 2012, which became a Good Article on 24 March 2013. Wesley Mouse appeared in a Signpost interview on 7 May 2014. This user contributed towards Eurovision Song Contest 2013, which became a Good Article on 14 November 2013 This user got Eurovision Young Musicians 1982, included in Did you Know? on 12 October 2014. This user contributed towards Eurovision Song Contest 2014, which became a Good Article on 6 November 2014 This user contributed towards Eurovision Song Contest 2012, which became an A-class Article on 7 November 2014. This user got Eurovision Song Contest 2014, included in Did you Know? on 26 November 2014. This user got Pan Celtic Festival, included in Did you Know? on 27 May 2015. This user contributed towards Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2014, which became a Good Article on 9 July 2015. This user got Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2014, included in Did you Know? on 23 July 2015. This user wrote Eurovision Song Contest's Greatest Hits, which became a Good Article on 20 September 2015. This user contributed significantly towards Pan Celtic Festival, which became a Good Article on 16 October 2015.
This is Wesley Wolf's talk page, where you can send him messages and comments.

Template loop detected: User talk:Wesley Wolf/Wes archives

Sadly I have not been able to edit as actively as I would have liked to, due to a busier real-life schedule. Fulltime employment as a Keyworker for a British supermarket chain, has meant it difficult to find spare time to edit and maintain articles during the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic. However, I have not gone into retirement just yet. I have granted Alucard 16 permission to be a guardian of my talk page during my indefinite periods of absence.
This is Wesley Wolf's talk page, where you can send him messages and comments.
This user talk page might be watched by friendly talk page stalkers, which means that someone other than me might reply to your query. Their input is welcome and their help with messages that I cannot reply to quickly is appreciated.
This user talk page might be watched by friendly talk page stalkers, which means that someone other than me might reply to your query. Their input is welcome and their help with messages that I cannot reply to quickly is appreciated.

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The Signpost: 22 April 2015

Another Question

Hi Wes, sorry but I have another question lol. So I've been editing the page for the song "Ur Cool" and noticed that on the Finnish article of the song, the song's cover is on the page. I tried to use the image on the English wikipedia like I've done with various Eurovision singers but it didn't work and acted as if no image with the name has been uploaded. Do you know how to fix this? { } 15:38, 25 April 2015 (UTC) @Jjj1238: the image on the Finnish article is internally uploaded and not on commons. By internally I mean uploaded as a file on Misplaced Pages for a specific language Wiki to use only. Wes Mouse |  09:53, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Oh ok, that's what I thought. And thanks for fixing it on the article. How exactly can I do that, because the same issue is happening on the Busy Doin' Nothin' article where the cover is only available on the Finnish article. { } 11:31, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
@Jjj1238: no worries, although the link they have used on Finnish Misplaced Pages as a source for the file belongs to a blogger website, which I'm sure is not allowed. Thankfully I found a more legitimate link from the official iTunes which makes it safer. Anyhow, to upload files internally, follow this link which can also be found on the left of your screen under the heading "upload file". Wes Mouse |  12:26, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
Ok, thanks Wes :) { } 12:31, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
I've uploaded that one for you. Wes Mouse |  12:35, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
Oh oops, I uploaded it too here. { } 12:47, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

@Jjj1238: there is an even bigger problem then. You've add the file to Busy Doin' Nothin' (Ace Wilder song), an article created in March 2014. However, there is also Busy Doin' Nothin' which was created in 2006. The article you used need to be redirected into the earlier version, and we will require an admin to do a history merge. As for the duplicate file upload; it should have flagged up a warning to you before saving the upload. BUt as it is a later version, you might as well self-nom for speedy deletion.Wes Mouse |  12:53, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

I put the Speedy Deletion template on my file. { } 13:04, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 April 2015

WikiCup 2015 May newsletter

C/2014 Q2 (Lovejoy) is a long-period comet discovered on 17 August 2014 by Terry Lovejoy; and is one of several Featured Pictures worked up by India The Herald (submissions) during the second round.

The second round one has all wrapped up, and round three has now begun! Congratulations to the 34 contestants who have made it through, but well done and thank you to all contestants who took part in our second round. Leading the way overall was Belarus Cas Liber (submissions) in Group B with a total of 777 points for a variety of contributions including Good Articles on Corona Borealis and Microscopium - both of which received the maximum bonus.

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Nina Sublatti

Hey Wes, I noticed that on Nina Sublatti's official website, the biography section is copied word for word from Sublatti's article on Misplaced Pages. I just wanted to point that out since Misplaced Pages isn't credited anywhere on the page and with that whole big than that happened between Misplaced Pages and ESCkaz awhile ago. I also noticed that some biographies on Eurovision.tv copy sentences exactly from the respective Misplaced Pages articles. { } 18:33, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

@Jjj1238: This could be a complexed situation, as we're dealing with BLP issues. Trying to determine who created what first would be like the aged old question of what came first, the chicken or the egg. Sublatti's team could claim that they wrote it all first, and claim that we have copied their content. Ultimately we would need 200% water-tight proof that they copied from us in order to proceed that they be forced to re-write their website. @CT Cooper: Do you have any suggestions regarding this matter? Wes Mouse |  11:20, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
@Jjj1238:, @Wesley Mouse: Yes, I think Wesley is right. We can't make accusations unless we are absolutely sure who has copied who. Furthermore, remember that the copyright of Misplaced Pages content ultimately belongs to the contributor(s) who added it, so these persons would have to determined as well. CT Cooper · talk 13:56, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
I added/organised a large amount of the information on Nina Sublatti's article, so I can definitely confirm that this was copied from us. { } 18:41, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Votes

According to the BBC the votes from Macedonia and Montenegro will not be counted as of yet. It is apparently some voting irregularities.--BabbaQ (talk) 00:42, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Australia in Eurovision voting history

Hi Wes. I just saw that you reverted the change that I made to the voting history table in the Australia in the Eurovision Song Contest page. I'm not entirely sure why you did so, since the table was for the most votes given in the semis and final, so I believe that what I made was correct. However maybe if you can explain to me what you were trying to do, it might make me understand better the situation. Thanks, Sims2aholic8 (Michael) (talk) 16:24, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

@Sims2aholic8: I reverted your change, as you only shown the points Australia awarded in the second semi final. Australia awarded points in both semifinals, thus the table would reflect this. Which (and because of the fact there are 2 semis) I only shown the top-3 points given by Australia from each of the semi finals. Wes Mouse |  16:28, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Wes, but as far as I can see, points from all the shows should be combined in that table, i.e. from both semi-finals AND the final. Therefore Sweden would have 24 points (12 from semi 2 and 12 from the final), Russia should have 20 points (10 from semi 1 and 10 from the final) and so on downwards. What you seem to have done is simply include just the points from the semi-finals and not include the points awarded from the final. Sims2aholic8 (Michael) (talk) 22:00, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
@Sims2aholic8: why would a table that is showing the most points given in a semi final, also included the points given from a final; when we have a separate table that breaks down the most points given in a final? A semi-final table should only show points from a semi-final, not both the semi and grand final. Wes Mouse |  22:49, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
Okay yeah I understand that, the table had been "Most points given in the semis and finals", but I see you have changed the table on the Australia page. I think all the other countries have the same table though, so perhaps we should open a discussion on what tables to include in that section. I believe the main point at the beginning for having two different tables was that originally there was one table for just points awarded in the final, therefore eliminating all the points received in the semi-finals. Therefore a second table arose to include points awarded in all shows, but if that is to change then it could be important to open up a discussion on it. Sims2aholic8 (Michael) (talk) 23:04, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
From what I remember, @Sims2aholic8:, all of the articles had tables showing the following:
  • A table with most points given in a semi final.
  • A table with most points received in a semi final.
  • A table with most points given in a final.
  • A table with most points received in a final.
I hadn't even noticed that other tables had been re-titled to show a combined semi and final. Are all the others like this? And if so, who on earth changed them all without proposing the change to WT:ESC? Saying that though, I do remember Karlwhen went on a rampage of rolling out new table formats that he preferred, without discussing the proposals with the project first. I wonder if these are another of his "do it his way" episodes. Wes Mouse |  23:13, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) *semi-final. Why we have "grand finals" and "semifinal" or even "semis and finals", when we should be using "final" and "semi-final(s)" "semi-final(s) and final". -- ] 23:19, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Oh heck! All this confusion. This was why I was never a huge fan of these break down tables, as they were (and still are) the poisoned chalice of Project Eurovision. With exception to the big 5 and Australia (for now), all the other countries can award and receive points in the semi final; as well as award and receive points in the grand final. So every country (except the big 5 and Australia) will have 4 tables. The remainder who can only award points in a semi final, whilst award and receive points in a grand final, will have 3 tables. Does that make sense? Wes Mouse |  23:26, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

I totally agree, I was never very much in favour of these tables to begin with. I have no idea when the tables seemed to migrate from just semi-finals to semis and finals, or who made that change either. I had been operating under the assumption that this was the way we were doing this from now on, but there seems to be a lot of confusion on the subject. And yeah, what you described is the way I the tables are implemented at the moment: every country would have 4 tables, except the big 5 and Australia which would have 3 tables. So unless now we add another table with a combined ranking to resolve this, which would be 6 tables total (or 4 tables total for big 5), which I think would just be overkill. And either way I think I would be in favour of getting rid of these tables overall. Sims2aholic8 (Michael) (talk) 00:11, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
Once upon a time I had !voted in favour of having them removed and a blanket ban on them. To me personally, they require constant adding up. And if we do not monitor them religiously, then we would never know if they are accurately tallied up, without having to painstakingly re-tally them up whenever a vandal has altered them. Alas, my way of thinking was rejected and overturned, because at the time there was a website that could be used. But that website no longer exists. So I suppose that could mean the original idea of a blanket ban on them would in theory play more an advantage. Sims2aholic8 I would open up a debate on this issue at WT:ESC, but with all the other issues being plastered all over the place, and the accusations that have been thrown at me from non-project members these last 24 hours, stating that I am the "evil dictator of WikiProject Eurovision", is putting me off ever wanting to open up any type of debate at the project talk page ever again. But if you wish to open one up, then I'd happily follow over and then put my twopenny-worth into the debate. Wes Mouse |  00:20, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Undone editing tables of Eurovision Song Contest 2015

Hello Wesley! I not understood why undo my edition. Sorry if my issue caused problems. I just suit the table according to the tables of previous years and had no intention to destroy or vandalize the page. Rather, I wanted to improve it and leave cleaner look and accessible to readers. I will not change again even not knowing the problem what actually happened. I look forward for your understanding, and I am willing to talk about it to find a solution. Thank you. Egtj (talk) 19:24, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Hello @Egtj:! The only reason I undid the edit, is because the dashes looked neater and as I have learnt in the past, prevents IP editors from attempting to vandalise and add points into "blank" sections. At least with the dashes indicating no points awarded will help us identify in future if a score has been incorrectly altered. Creating all the scoreboard tables for the 2015 article, was tiresome as I spent hours from 12 midnight until 6am UK time getting them all accurate. I intend to add dashes on all the scoretables across the rest of the Eurovision articles too, which I know will take even longer to get them all completed. Wes Mouse |  19:32, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
Yes I understand. I just think that if this is the new standard of Misplaced Pages (have traits which do not score, for example), it would need to be changed in previous years. But anyway, thanks for the explanation. Egtj (talk) 19:38, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Perrelli

First of all, what do you say about Måns win? :) I think it was the right song that won. Really strong performance. Anyway, if you got time for it please take a look at the Charlotte Perrelli article and see if there are any improvement that can be done. Appreciate it. Thanks.--BabbaQ (talk) 18:56, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Sadly I have not been able to edit as actively as I would have liked to, due to a busier real-life schedule. Fulltime employment as a Keyworker for a British supermarket chain, has meant it difficult to find spare time to edit and maintain articles during the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic. However, I have not gone into retirement just yet. I have granted Alucard 16 permission to be a guardian of my talk page during my indefinite periods of absence.

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The Signpost: 22 April 2015

Another Question

Hi Wes, sorry but I have another question lol. So I've been editing the page for the song "Ur Cool" and noticed that on the Finnish article of the song, the song's cover is on the page. I tried to use the image on the English wikipedia like I've done with various Eurovision singers but it didn't work and acted as if no image with the name has been uploaded. Do you know how to fix this? { } 15:38, 25 April 2015 (UTC) @Jjj1238: the image on the Finnish article is internally uploaded and not on commons. By internally I mean uploaded as a file on Misplaced Pages for a specific language Wiki to use only. Wes Mouse |  09:53, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Oh ok, that's what I thought. And thanks for fixing it on the article. How exactly can I do that, because the same issue is happening on the Busy Doin' Nothin' article where the cover is only available on the Finnish article. { } 11:31, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
@Jjj1238: no worries, although the link they have used on Finnish Misplaced Pages as a source for the file belongs to a blogger website, which I'm sure is not allowed. Thankfully I found a more legitimate link from the official iTunes which makes it safer. Anyhow, to upload files internally, follow this link which can also be found on the left of your screen under the heading "upload file". Wes Mouse |  12:26, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
Ok, thanks Wes :) { } 12:31, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
I've uploaded that one for you. Wes Mouse |  12:35, 26 April 2015 (UTC)
Oh oops, I uploaded it too here. { } 12:47, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

@Jjj1238: there is an even bigger problem then. You've add the file to Busy Doin' Nothin' (Ace Wilder song), an article created in March 2014. However, there is also Busy Doin' Nothin' which was created in 2006. The article you used need to be redirected into the earlier version, and we will require an admin to do a history merge. As for the duplicate file upload; it should have flagged up a warning to you before saving the upload. BUt as it is a later version, you might as well self-nom for speedy deletion.Wes Mouse |  12:53, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

I put the Speedy Deletion template on my file. { } 13:04, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

The Signpost: 29 April 2015

WikiCup 2015 May newsletter

C/2014 Q2 (Lovejoy) is a long-period comet discovered on 17 August 2014 by Terry Lovejoy; and is one of several Featured Pictures worked up by India The Herald (submissions) during the second round.

The second round one has all wrapped up, and round three has now begun! Congratulations to the 34 contestants who have made it through, but well done and thank you to all contestants who took part in our second round. Leading the way overall was Belarus Cas Liber (submissions) in Group B with a total of 777 points for a variety of contributions including Good Articles on Corona Borealis and Microscopium - both of which received the maximum bonus.

Special credit must be given to a number of high importance articles improved during the second round.

The points varied across groups, with the lowest score required to gain automatic qualification was 68 in Group A - meanwhile the second place score in Group H was 404, which would have been high enough to win all but one of the other Groups! As well as the top two of each group automatically going through to the third round, a minimum score of 55 was required for a wildcard competitor to go through. We had a three-way tie at 55 points and all three have qualified for the next round, in the spirit of fairness. The third round ends on June 28, with the top two in each group progressing automatically while the remaining 16 highest scorers across all four groups go through as wildcards. Good luck to all competitors for the third round! Figureskatingfan (talk · contribs · email), Miyagawa (talk · contribs · email) and Sturmvogel 66 (talk · contribs · email) 16:56, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

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11 Quality: High, Assessed class: GA, Predicted class: FA Greece in the Eurovision Song Contest 2006 (talk) Wikify
13 Quality: Low, Assessed class: Start, Predicted class: Start John Kennedy O'Connor (talk) Please add more content Please create proper section headings Please add more images Please add more sources Wikify
6 Quality: Low, Assessed class: Unassessed, Predicted class: Stub Boom Bang-a-Bang: 50 Years of Eurovision (talk) Please add more content Please create proper section headings Please add more sources Orphan
5 Quality: Low, Assessed class: C, Predicted class: Start Andy Chun (talk) Please add more content Please create proper section headings Please add more images Please add more wikilinks Please add more sources Orphan
3 Quality: Low, Assessed class: Stub, Predicted class: Stub Alberto Espinosa Desigaud (talk) Please add more content Please create proper section headings Please add more images Please add more wikilinks Please add more sources Orphan
43 Quality: Low, Assessed class: Stub, Predicted class: Stub Beauty Never Lies (talk) Please add more content Please create proper section headings Please add more images Please add more sources Stub
8 Quality: Low, Assessed class: Stub, Predicted class: Stub Solvi Stubing (talk) Please add more content Please create proper section headings Please add more images Please add more wikilinks Please add more sources Stub
17 Quality: Low, Assessed class: Stub, Predicted class: Stub Lake Guerlédan (talk) Please add more content Please create proper section headings Please add more images Please add more wikilinks Please add more sources Stub
4 Quality: Low, Assessed class: Stub, Predicted class: Stub United Kingdom in the Eurovision Young Dancers (talk) Please add more content Please create proper section headings Please add more sources Stub
5 Quality: Low, Assessed class: Stub, Predicted class: Stub Slovakia in the Eurovision Song Contest 1993 (talk) Please add more content Please create proper section headings Please add more images Please add more sources Stub
8 Quality: Low, Assessed class: Stub, Predicted class: Start Angel (Mika Newton song) (talk) Please add more content Please create proper section headings Please add more images Please add more sources Stub

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Nina Sublatti

Hey Wes, I noticed that on Nina Sublatti's official website, the biography section is copied word for word from Sublatti's article on Misplaced Pages. I just wanted to point that out since Misplaced Pages isn't credited anywhere on the page and with that whole big than that happened between Misplaced Pages and ESCkaz awhile ago. I also noticed that some biographies on Eurovision.tv copy sentences exactly from the respective Misplaced Pages articles. { } 18:33, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

@Jjj1238: This could be a complexed situation, as we're dealing with BLP issues. Trying to determine who created what first would be like the aged old question of what came first, the chicken or the egg. Sublatti's team could claim that they wrote it all first, and claim that we have copied their content. Ultimately we would need 200% water-tight proof that they copied from us in order to proceed that they be forced to re-write their website. @CT Cooper: Do you have any suggestions regarding this matter? Wes Mouse |  11:20, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
@Jjj1238:, @Wesley Mouse: Yes, I think Wesley is right. We can't make accusations unless we are absolutely sure who has copied who. Furthermore, remember that the copyright of Misplaced Pages content ultimately belongs to the contributor(s) who added it, so these persons would have to determined as well. CT Cooper · talk 13:56, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
I added/organised a large amount of the information on Nina Sublatti's article, so I can definitely confirm that this was copied from us. { } 18:41, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

Votes

According to the BBC the votes from Macedonia and Montenegro will not be counted as of yet. It is apparently some voting irregularities.--BabbaQ (talk) 00:42, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Australia in Eurovision voting history

Hi Wes. I just saw that you reverted the change that I made to the voting history table in the Australia in the Eurovision Song Contest page. I'm not entirely sure why you did so, since the table was for the most votes given in the semis and final, so I believe that what I made was correct. However maybe if you can explain to me what you were trying to do, it might make me understand better the situation. Thanks, Sims2aholic8 (Michael) (talk) 16:24, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

@Sims2aholic8: I reverted your change, as you only shown the points Australia awarded in the second semi final. Australia awarded points in both semifinals, thus the table would reflect this. Which (and because of the fact there are 2 semis) I only shown the top-3 points given by Australia from each of the semi finals. Wes Mouse |  16:28, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Wes, but as far as I can see, points from all the shows should be combined in that table, i.e. from both semi-finals AND the final. Therefore Sweden would have 24 points (12 from semi 2 and 12 from the final), Russia should have 20 points (10 from semi 1 and 10 from the final) and so on downwards. What you seem to have done is simply include just the points from the semi-finals and not include the points awarded from the final. Sims2aholic8 (Michael) (talk) 22:00, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
@Sims2aholic8: why would a table that is showing the most points given in a semi final, also included the points given from a final; when we have a separate table that breaks down the most points given in a final? A semi-final table should only show points from a semi-final, not both the semi and grand final. Wes Mouse |  22:49, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
Okay yeah I understand that, the table had been "Most points given in the semis and finals", but I see you have changed the table on the Australia page. I think all the other countries have the same table though, so perhaps we should open a discussion on what tables to include in that section. I believe the main point at the beginning for having two different tables was that originally there was one table for just points awarded in the final, therefore eliminating all the points received in the semi-finals. Therefore a second table arose to include points awarded in all shows, but if that is to change then it could be important to open up a discussion on it. Sims2aholic8 (Michael) (talk) 23:04, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
From what I remember, @Sims2aholic8:, all of the articles had tables showing the following:
  • A table with most points given in a semi final.
  • A table with most points received in a semi final.
  • A table with most points given in a final.
  • A table with most points received in a final.
I hadn't even noticed that other tables had been re-titled to show a combined semi and final. Are all the others like this? And if so, who on earth changed them all without proposing the change to WT:ESC? Saying that though, I do remember Karlwhen went on a rampage of rolling out new table formats that he preferred, without discussing the proposals with the project first. I wonder if these are another of his "do it his way" episodes. Wes Mouse |  23:13, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) *semi-final. Why we have "grand finals" and "semifinal" or even "semis and finals", when we should be using "final" and "semi-final(s)" "semi-final(s) and final". -- ] 23:19, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Oh heck! All this confusion. This was why I was never a huge fan of these break down tables, as they were (and still are) the poisoned chalice of Project Eurovision. With exception to the big 5 and Australia (for now), all the other countries can award and receive points in the semi final; as well as award and receive points in the grand final. So every country (except the big 5 and Australia) will have 4 tables. The remainder who can only award points in a semi final, whilst award and receive points in a grand final, will have 3 tables. Does that make sense? Wes Mouse |  23:26, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

I totally agree, I was never very much in favour of these tables to begin with. I have no idea when the tables seemed to migrate from just semi-finals to semis and finals, or who made that change either. I had been operating under the assumption that this was the way we were doing this from now on, but there seems to be a lot of confusion on the subject. And yeah, what you described is the way I the tables are implemented at the moment: every country would have 4 tables, except the big 5 and Australia which would have 3 tables. So unless now we add another table with a combined ranking to resolve this, which would be 6 tables total (or 4 tables total for big 5), which I think would just be overkill. And either way I think I would be in favour of getting rid of these tables overall. Sims2aholic8 (Michael) (talk) 00:11, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
Once upon a time I had !voted in favour of having them removed and a blanket ban on them. To me personally, they require constant adding up. And if we do not monitor them religiously, then we would never know if they are accurately tallied up, without having to painstakingly re-tally them up whenever a vandal has altered them. Alas, my way of thinking was rejected and overturned, because at the time there was a website that could be used. But that website no longer exists. So I suppose that could mean the original idea of a blanket ban on them would in theory play more an advantage. Sims2aholic8 I would open up a debate on this issue at WT:ESC, but with all the other issues being plastered all over the place, and the accusations that have been thrown at me from non-project members these last 24 hours, stating that I am the "evil dictator of WikiProject Eurovision", is putting me off ever wanting to open up any type of debate at the project talk page ever again. But if you wish to open one up, then I'd happily follow over and then put my twopenny-worth into the debate. Wes Mouse |  00:20, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Undone editing tables of Eurovision Song Contest 2015

Hello Wesley! I not understood why undo my edition. Sorry if my issue caused problems. I just suit the table according to the tables of previous years and had no intention to destroy or vandalize the page. Rather, I wanted to improve it and leave cleaner look and accessible to readers. I will not change again even not knowing the problem what actually happened. I look forward for your understanding, and I am willing to talk about it to find a solution. Thank you. Egtj (talk) 19:24, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Hello @Egtj:! The only reason I undid the edit, is because the dashes looked neater and as I have learnt in the past, prevents IP editors from attempting to vandalise and add points into "blank" sections. At least with the dashes indicating no points awarded will help us identify in future if a score has been incorrectly altered. Creating all the scoreboard tables for the 2015 article, was tiresome as I spent hours from 12 midnight until 6am UK time getting them all accurate. I intend to add dashes on all the scoretables across the rest of the Eurovision articles too, which I know will take even longer to get them all completed. Wes Mouse |  19:32, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
Yes I understand. I just think that if this is the new standard of Misplaced Pages (have traits which do not score, for example), it would need to be changed in previous years. But anyway, thanks for the explanation. Egtj (talk) 19:38, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Perrelli

First of all, what do you say about Måns win? :) I think it was the right song that won. Really strong performance. Anyway, if you got time for it please take a look at the Charlotte Perrelli article and see if there are any improvement that can be done. Appreciate it. Thanks.--BabbaQ (talk) 18:56, 26 May 2015 (UTC)