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I need some help. Before I continue, I will disclose that I am the artist in question. Ok, I went to the LGBT music page and saw that it was pretty empty, there is not much on it, references to some people but little in the way of any real information and on the talk page, the person who created the page even stated that they did not have much knowledge of LGBT music. All up the page is pretty empty and anyone searching for answers on LGBT music on Misplaced Pages will be pretty disappointed with what they find, but more importantly they will get the impression that not much has been done or is around and this is just not the case. To help rectify this and to make a contribution to the page I added a section on an album I released back in 2008, it was produced and released because at the time (and for the 10 years before when I had first decided to make it) there was pretty-much nothing available mainstream for gay people to listen to unless it was dance music in a club, you never heard a gay song on a mainstream radio show for instance and I was angry that many songs which have been around for decades and which have male pronouns in them were only ever sung by female singers and that when listened to the guy had to translate in his head to a guy's voice or just have a girl singing a love song to him which is ridiculous when you are a gay man. I took 13 well-known classic songs, all with male pronouns in the lyrics and just sang them with a deep male voice. I released the album in 2008, it was played on JOY FM (gay FM radio station) here in Melbourne on several different radio shows, some songs received airplay on American internet radio shows also, and one song was even nominated for a 2009 OUTmusic award for best international song. The CD is now in the collection of the National Library of Australia and I have also done my very best as an independent operator to make sure it was available for the gay population to find in many and varied stores online. It never made any money, that was not the point of it, it was purely to right a wrong against gay people I had seen in place for decades, so I made it on a social justice basis. There is ample evidence out there to show that the album was released in 2008, there are still a couple of articles and interviews online about it, it's in several library resources online showing the release date and there are records online of one track from it being nominated for the OUTmusic award which proves un-reservedly that it was made by a gay person for a gay market (otherwise it could not have been included in the awards). All this is not in question and on the public record. Anyway, I wanted people doing research on these old songs (some of them are from the 1920's) to know that they had been covered by a gay man for a gay audience, so a couple of years ago I went to each page that existed for each song and in the "covers" section I put a simple reference to the album and artist name so that whoever reading through the covers would realize that this song has been covered as a gay track back in 2008. There were many other covers included at the time on all these tracks, some had links to the artist's Misplaced Pages page, many did not. Recently though, an editor has taken it upon himself to 'clean-up' many of the songs, citing that the cover versions are not 'notable' and he removed all entries relating to the tracks I put in. I reverted the edits a couple of times but the editor just kept changing them back and threatened me with a ban if I continued. All he was citing was that the artist 'Wilshier' is not notable enough to have a reference to anything on Misplaced Pages, and said that Wilshier had to have a Misplaced Pages page of his own in order to qualify to have these tracks mentioned which is incorrect, as many people mentioned on Misplaced Pages do not have pages and never will, in any case it is not the artist who is the point of these entries, it is the fact these songs were recorded and released back in 2008 in a mainstream way specifically for a gay audience, this is significant and important for our gay history and needs to be available for people to know when they are doing gay social studies research. The fact that there was really nothing else around in the way of normal gay music back in 2008 (these songs are not political, not sexual and not ghetto, they are just normal songs which straight people have enjoyed for decades, nothing else was around like that for gay people at the time) means that this release is MORE notable, not less, and that at the time something was made and released publicly which had significance for the gay community. This needs to be recorded on the Misplaced Pages LGBT area. So after the entries were deleted by this editor I went to the LGBT page (which did not even exist at the time the album came out by the way, gay music was still invisible in mainstream media then,) and saw how empty the page was and decided to make an entry about the album being released in 2008 there, it did fit perfectly with what the page was trying to say. Now this editor has started a personal vendetta against me, even though he doesn't know I am actually the artist, he does think I am connected to the artist and am trying to promote which is not true. He has now deleted the section I included on the LGBT page as well, I might say that I have tried to discuss this with the editor in question User:Binksternet but he refuses to respond to the relevance of the gay issues of these tracks being released and is making it all about the fact the the artist has not had a chart success a biography written or his own Misplaced Pages page. These things would only constitute that the artist was a probable self-promoter and it is not about the artist anyway, it is ALL about the relevance that a gay album was released back in 2008 when there was nothing else around and this is of historical importance to the gay community as a whole. As I said, it is on the public record that this album was made in 2008, released to the public in 2008, the nature of the album is gay and that it was even recognized and included in a major gay music awards show the next year. Whether or not the artist is notable, the album certainly does deserve to be included on the LGBT music page to reflect accurately what happened at the time and to show that there were efforts being made publicly to serve a gay market with mainstream music. I would love to put back the section I wrote, however it seems that this editor in question has me on a watchlist of some kind and whatever I do on Misplaced Pages he will check and remove if it is at all connected to the name Wilshier. This means he has made it impossible for me to include the album on the LGBT music page or anywhere else on any LGBT page, no matter how important or valid it is to the gay community's historical records. So I am asking for an editor connected to the LGBT Studies project, to please go to the LGBT music page LGBT_music and re-insert the reference to the album for the benefit of those doing research in future. I can't do it myself I have found (I am pretty new as an editor to Misplaced Pages and am only just learning things) as whatever I put up this editor will remove again and if I just keep trying to revert his destructive edits, he will cite an edit war and attempt to shut me down via a ban. It is not against the rules of Misplaced Pages for a person connected to a project or anything else to do their own edits, as long as the information is correct and verifiable and is neutral and not biased, but this editor has made up his mind that the artist is not notable enough therefore the release is not to be mentioned and this means one person who does not understand gay issues and our history is being allowed to adversely influence what other gay people read (or in this case are unable to read). I am just trying to be helpful to the gay community by having accurately recorded history of ours out there to find, that's why I did the album in the first place back then, to help because there wasn't anything around at the time, so it doesn't seem right that one person with a bee in his bonnet should be able to delete this reference which has importance to those in the gay community. The album was released back in 2008 to the general public for a gay audience, this is irrefutable and verifiable, so it needs to be included on the LGBT music page. Here are the links I used as external sources for the section, , but the section including external refs will still be in the pages edit history anyway. I don't care if the quote is removed though I felt at the time it was important to show why the recording was released and it was supported with an external ref to the interview anyway, I only care that the reference to the release is there, for all the reasons listed above. The editor has stated to me on the last instance; "Stop promoting Wilshier, who has not made enough of a splash to be notable by Misplaced Pages's standards." (ref to the conversation are here; User_talk:Taurusthecat , Talk:The_Man_I_Love_(song) #Wilshier cover version , but he just does not understand the significance of this release to the gay community in the context of the LGBT music page. Thankyou for your help. Taurusthecat (talk) 18:09, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

References

1. http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/28561349?selectedversion=NBD44587715
2. http://www.netlibrary.net/article/whebn0005978022/the%20man%20i%20love%20%28song%29
3. http://www.netlibrary.net/Articles/Gimme!%20Gimme!%20Gimme!%20%28A%20Man%20After%20Midnight%29?&Words=lover%20man%20song
4. http://www.queerty.com/will-adam-lambert-be-at-tonights-outmusic-awards-do-you-even-know-what-that-is-20091208
5. http://www.windycitymediagroup.com/lgbt/Chicagoans-nominated-for-OUTMusic-Awards/23347.html
6. http://www.jeremygloff.com/index.html/lee-wilshier-the-outmusic-interview/

Everything in Misplaced Pages must be a summary of significant information. Misplaced Pages cannot be the place for not-very-notable facts. Frankly it doesn't matter whether you are the artist in question, or an agent, or just a fan. The main point is that you must have WP:SECONDARY sources to establish the importance of a fact. None of your sources were sufficient. Binksternet (talk) 18:23, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

But every single reason you have given for removal of any and all refs to this cover album were stated by you from the start to be regarding the fact the the artist was not notable enough, this was the sole reason you gave and there was no mention of the ext refs. It is only now since a 3rd party got involved through 3rd opinion on the talk page of one of the songs questioning your notability argument and then citing that maybe the refs were doubtful, that you have now changed it to being about the refs. Now you are saying that it is because references are not sufficient and it is looking more and more like you are just trying to prevent any mention of this release for any reason possible, citing that it is being promoted. It is not being promoted, it is an old album almost 10 years old which was never intended to be a hit, and the artist who made it had no desire to be famous, the only important thing is that it was offered to the gay public where there was no music around in the mainstream arena, and for correct history of gay music and efforts to make it socially acceptable, for anyone doing research in the future, it is important to show that this release was made at the time it was. You appear to be following my every move manually (which could be construed as harassment/bullying) by checking my contributions because you have got it in your head that this entry is to promote and nothing more, yet you do not understand the significance of the release to the gay community. I cite the refs I do because I was NOT a self promoter at the time and as the release was in 2008 many of the interviews and articles are now gone as many online mags and other places do not keep old copies of their issues online. I could provide links to many many online stores which show the release date and that it came out when it did, however I would not link to these in a pink fit as it would then be seen to be promoting a product. People can find the release easily by doing a simple Google search at any time, it is not for Misplaced Pages to have links like that, Misplaced Pages is for information and research. You may not understand, but the release was notable at the time and still is for what it tried to achieve, and needs to be recorded. It's release date is in the public domain, it is included in a gay award ceremony which means it was a gay record made by a gay person for a gay audience, all this is verifiable, so your new excuse that the refs are not sufficient to allow the inclusion of this release on a LGBT page is not convincing. Taurusthecat (talk) 19:42, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

And I will also say that the LGBT music page is almost bare, it has little or no information on it about LGBT music, other than a few references to people like Elton John and Sylvester, for anyone visiting that page they will see more or less nothing of any interest other than a few extremely famous people are gay and a few other extremely famous people are gay sympathizers. The page desperately needs input and more content and this piece I put in was to help with that and assist in giving some information on gay music history. It is factual and it is verifiable. Taurusthecat (talk) 19:53, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Consensus at WP:SONGCOVER is that the artist must be notable in Misplaced Pages's terms to mention a cover song performed by the artist. It's the most basic threshold that all the editors agree upon. That's why I hammered on notability right off the bat. Binksternet (talk) 20:05, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

This was already discussed by another editor here; Talk:The_Man_I_Love_(song) #Response to Third Opinion Request where it is stated that: "...but I disagree that either SONGCOVER (which is not a "guideline" as defined by Misplaced Pages) or Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Countering_systemic_bias #Selection based on notability of article topics controls in this matter. Both of those are statements at WikiProjects which have no weight as "rules" and WikiProjects do not have the right to set standards for articles, unless those standards are approved as "true" policies or guidelines via the process set out in the Policy policy; see this section of the Consensus policy." Even though this 3rd opinion was offered as an informal dispute resolution, it is still offered by someone who seems to know what he's talking about but you have chosen to ignore it. In the case of this release, it is not notable (as I keep saying) because of the artist who made it, it is entirely notable for being a gay release to mainstream where there were none or little at the time and where the LGBT page was talking exactly about this topic. A track from the release was included in the gay version of the Grammys held following year (2009) for heaven's sake and this is completely verifiable through several sources, if this does not make a release notable what does? (And this is ignoring the importance of the release to the gay community, something which is not in your area of expertise so you can be forgiven for not understanding, and trying to apply 'straight' rules of notability to a gay issue which is different due to the smaller size and more invisible nature of out gay people and product within various industries). In any case, just linking to someones supporting OPINION in an article or website that it was a notable release to the gay community (which is what you are requesting) does not mean nearly as much as showing hard evidence that it was included in a major gay music awards event just after release. Taurusthecat (talk) 20:32, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Please take this discussion to Talk:LGBT music, where it belongs. It would have sufficed in the first place to ask anyone interested in the subject to join the conversation there. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 20:56, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

The LGBT music talk page Talk:LGBT music has a banner at the top which requests people with text and a link to come to this page to discuss, however I have moved the conversation to the talk page as you have requested. It is currently not possible to add a new section or concern using a normal edit link on that talk page, there is none on the page to auto add a new section, but I did manage to use an existing section and add to that and it has added a new separate section underneath it. But it is still not possible to add a section or comment on the talk page there using the normal means, which may explain why the main page is so bare of content and the talk page only has two very old sections on it created in 2011. Anyway, I apologize and have moved the conversation there. Taurusthecat (talk) 21:27, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

I can understand how you could have interpreted invitation to discussion on the project banner in that way, but that's not its purpose. The project banner is merely drawing attention to fact that the article is relevant to this project. Frankly I find the whole concept of an article on "LGBT music" inherently confused. It seems to be about LGBT-related lyrics in songs, which is not even "music" at all by definition (it's words sung to music). It vaguely gestures to the idea of music - or rather popular music - associated with or popular with sections of the LGBT community, but that's all. I think a case could be made that the whole article could be mereged with something more coherent. Paul B (talk) 21:34, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you feel it is not possible to add a new section there using a normal edit; I just did so as a test edit (and then undid it.) --Nat Gertler (talk) 21:38, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

There is nothing stopping anyone adding a section by 'normal means'. I think s/he means that there is no "Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic" link at the top of the page as there is here. Paul B (talk) 21:41, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Sorry, I am new to Misplaced Pages editing and still learning, I have just seen the edit tab next to the read one at the top of the talk page so comments and sections can be added normally, I was looking for a blue edit link in the page itself. With regards to LGBT music, if it is music released by gay artists for a gay audience, it is by definition gay (or LGBT) music. That's why the OUTmusic awards and other gay music festivals were created and run, in order to specifically recognize LGBT music. If there was no such thing as LGBT music these events would not exist. Taurusthecat (talk) 21:43, 7 May 2015 (UTC)