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In reference to the map provided - that is a depiction of the modern day province of Ulster. However in at least the 1800s, Louth was considered part of Ulster. Also, Cavan was not part of Ulster until at least the 1500s, before this it was considered part of Connacht. I think the current map should be deleted from this page, or at least in my opinion. --MacTire (talk) 17:32, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
What is the difference between Ulaidh and Ulidia? Heres is a map with "Ulidia", used on Gaelic IrelandGaelic Ireland, "Ulidia" is described as the blue north-east section ~ R.T.G15:56, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
Well we have two maps here, one shows Down and Antrim as Ulidia and the other shows Ulster as Ulaid ~ R.T.G06:39, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
Boundaries are not permanent, and the territory controlled by the Ulaid fluctuated through history, as the article makes clear. --Nicknack009 (talk) 21:21, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
Here is a map of 400 years earlier from the same source:
http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/maps/historical/map650.gif
This one calls the same area "Ulaid". I believe that Ulaid and Ulidia are the same thing, with Ulidia indeed being a later latinisation. In the present-day Northern Ireland "Ulidia" is the more common phrase that usually refers to counties Antrim and Down collectively.
The current Ulidia article currently describes a categorisation of fly, but should really be a disambiguation page that points here.
There are two points needing clarification in this article. First Ulaid the ancient name for Ulster supposedly derived from the Uolunti or Voluntii of Ptolemy, and was the early name of the Coiced or fifth of Ulster proper as it is claimed the early kingdom of that name may have extended to the modern borders of the present day province. While Ulidia was the reconstituted Kingdom, or smaller portion of primarily counties Antrim and Down ruled by the Dal Fiatach after their re-emergence from the conquest of south central Ulster legendarily by the "Three Collas", and north western Ulster by the Ui Neill, in the First instance in the Mid 4th century AD and in the second in the early to mid 5th century AD. As the article on the Dal Fiatach dates their first King to have ruled in around 450 AD. Which references the Second issue the Clanna Rudraige,and the true origins of the Dal Fiatach?
In the article on Rudraige mac Sithrigi for which this Clann is named it states clearly that he was most associated with the Dal-nAraide or Cruithne. Here it states that the Uolunti were the Clanna Rudraige, whose historical descendents were the Dal Fiatach. Now Fiatach Finn from whom this name was derived may well have been of the Ulaid or Uolunti originally and a deadly enemy of Rudraige mac Sithrigi. However two issues on this must be pointed out. The later dynasty known as the Dal Fiatach cannot be allowed to make unsupported claims as to ancestry. First they 'could' my quotations, be related to the Darini, or just 'maybe' related to the Uolunti, claims which their 7th and 8th century Genealogies do indeed advance. However it seems that if the Dal Fiatach actually as their own genealogy reveals descend from Ross Ruad mac Rudraige, they were Cruithne and a sub branch of the Dal-n-Araide. This is one of the major issues with "claims" of genealogical descent, like the claim here that the Uolunti or Ulaid were known as the Clanna Rudraige being asserted without sufficient underlying data that seems to confirm this, but which the data indicates was otherwise.
Either the Dal Fiatach were related to Fiatach Finn and the Uolunti and thus were not of the Clanna Rudraige, or the Dal Fiatach are mis-named and were of the Clanna Rudraige, as in descent from Ross Ruad mac Rudraige, as their genealogy would indicate. But a bald claim that the Uolunti or Ulaid with vague hints of "possible" inter-relations to the Darini/Dairine were related and represented by the historical Dal Fiatach should not be asserted without much more investigative effort to prove the assertion. Especially when the introductory paragraph is clearly contradictory, in that it claims the Ulaid's or Uolunti's identification was the same as that of their known deadly enemies, the Dal-n-Araide, who were the true Clanna Rudraige in descent from Rudraige mac Sithrigi through his son Amargin mac Rudraige according to all of the genealogical data I have reviewed on this issue. Dalegar123 (talk) 07:00, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
Pronunciation
Is there any source for the view that the -dh is pronounced gutturally in Ulaidh and Uladh? I have a source (the Irish of West Muskerry), which gives Cork pronunciations, that Cúige Uladh is pronounced Cúige Ola - the dh is not pronounced - and I would be surprised if it were any different in the Ulster pronunciation either. www.abair.ie is a pronunciation generator for Ulster Irish - they have fed many thousands of pronunciations and sound files into that, and it seems Ulaidh is pronounced (oli) or something like it, and cúige uladh is Cúige Olu. Try putting Ulaidh and Cúige Uladh in that programme and see what pronunciation is given. That's the trouble with Misplaced Pages - people who don't know the facts are writing the articles! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.151.117.142 (talk) 17:24, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
I think you fundamentally misunderstand the use of speech synthesis - whatever synthesis may suggest does not mean it's necessarily right. Especially place names and personal names often defy any kind of prediction. The IPA looks fine to me - ɣʲ is a slender glide and rather close to a vowel or semivowel so it won't be highly prominent in pronunciation. Akerbeltz (talk) 00:37, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for your reply. Speech synthesis is just synthesis, but as many words are pronounced in ways that vary from the spelling, many individual pronunciations will have been entered into the database too in order to make sure they're right. The words Ulaidh and Uladh are so fundamental to the Ulster dialect that it is difficult to believe that the database used on abair.ie does not give the correct pronunciation. You say "ɣʲ is a slender glide" implying the pronunciation is /j/, which is what ɣʲ is, but the article has "Cúige Uladh, pronounced " -I don't believe that the -dh is pronounced as ɣ, which is the point I am raising, which you are struggling to understand. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.151.117.142 (talk) 11:21, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
Well, I *am* a bit shaky on the finer points of Irish phonology but in Scots Gaelic it would indeed be /ɣ/ and if you'll notice, Abair has the word BETA slapped all over it. But I'm sure someone better versed in Irish phonology will chip in. Akerbeltz (talk) 11:45, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
