Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 12:05, 24 September 2015

Welcome RickAlanRoss1952!

Alternatively, leave me a message at my talk page or type {{helpme}} here on your talk page, and someone will try to help.

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Sincerely, Crystallizedcarbon (talk) 16:49, 3 September 2015 (UTC)   (Leave me a message)

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Please contact the Arbitration Committee to credential your account

Greetings! Since you are holding yourself out to be Rick Alan Ross and Rick Alan Ross (talk · contribs), you are subject to the ruling at Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Scientology#Rick Alan Ross instructed and restricted. Please see Misplaced Pages:Arbitration Committee for the email address at which you can reach the committee; you must correspond with a member of the arbitration committee. —C.Fred (talk) 17:05, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

I have contacted the arbitration committee and received no response. I am still barred from the Talk page of my bio.RickAlanRoss1952 (talk) 14

47, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Make sure you sent the email to arbcom-l@lists.wikimedia.org you should get back an email saying that your email is being held in moderation because you are not a member of the list. A clerk or Arbcom member will then pass it on to the list or contact you. You can also send them email them by clicking Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee. The technical restriction was placed on your article talk page to prevent anyone from posting using an IP address or non-autoconfirmed account. Regardless, based on my reading of the Arbcom restriction, you can not edit until you have heard back from Arbcom about confirming your account whether the software will let you or not. Doing so could lead to a complete loss of editing privileges as it would be rapidly reported to the Arbitration Enforcement Noticeboard as a violation of an Arbcom sanction.

A list of Arbcom members is available at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration_Committee#Members. If you think there is some problem with your email you can start a new section here and {{ping}} {{ping|Example}} one or two of them to get their attention on-wiki. I usually notice Courcelles, DGG and Doug Weller on regularly but all of the ones listed as active should notice a ping within a day or so. I hope this helps you resolve this matter. Jbh 15:32, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. I will email again. I only wish to post suggestions for edits at the Talk page and participate in that process.RickAlanRoss1952 (talk) 17:30, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Please email the arbitration committee with the instructions (posted above) rather than filing an AC amendment request. You can also post a note on an arbitrator's talk page. Liz 20:41, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

@Liz: He says that he has emailed ArbCom. Based on the conversation here and on my talk page he says he has done it at least twice. Maybe there is some hang up on the list filter?? Jbh 20:50, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

I have emailed, posted and repeatedly requested help. I would like to be able to post suggestions for edits at the talk page of my bio.RickAlanRoss1952 (talk) 20:54, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

I have sent an email to the committee on one of their internal email lists asking them to keep a lookout for your messages. Just know that there are 12 active arbitrators right now, they get many email requests and usually discuss cases among themselves which can take a while to come to decisions. It may be a while until you hear back so I recommend patience. Thanks to Jbhunley for your help on this. Liz 20:58, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you. My understanding is that I am blocked from posting at the Talk page of my bio because Misplaced Pages editors are not sure I am me. I am willing to absolutely prove that I am Rick Alan Ross. I can fax or email documents or whatever it takes.RickAlanRoss1952 (talk) 21:02, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Just to let you know

I saw your recent edits. I'm somewhat offended by your "One Misplaced Pages user has insisted that..." (). Afaik there was a lot of them, including the admin who protected the talk pages against IP edits. So "One..." seems completely out of order. Not sure whether I'll let myself get involved in this again, I need a somewhat clearer editing environment for that to be productive I suppose.

Re. comparison with Steve Hassan's Misplaced Pages article: comparing in this sense is somewhat of a weak argument in Misplaced Pages, per WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS (before even examining the WP:COI). If you have a problem with Mr. Hassan's page, post on its talk page with, if and when applicable, disclosure of your COI in the matter. --Francis Schonken (talk) 13:03, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

The issue is consistency in BLP Misplaced Pages rules. Otherwise I have no interest in Mr. Hassan's bio. Do you somehow know Steve Hassan, or do you know people in some way associated with him or his work? What is your special interest in my bio? Do you have any COI in the matter?RickAlanRoss1952 (talk) 13:26, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Never heard about the person until an hour ago. --Francis Schonken (talk) 13:28, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Fair enough. Is there some special interest that drew you to edit at my bio?RickAlanRoss1952 (talk) 13:35, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Ten years ago I got involved in the Prem Rawat imbroglio. Way out of my field of expertise, just trying to help out. At the time we were discussing whether your website could be used as a reliable source on Rawat. Then your Misplaced Pages bio got unstable (... the Scientology ArbCom case): I was still hoping things would stabilise, and your website could be used, which didn't work out that way. Anyway, that's when that bio landed on my watchlist. --Francis Schonken (talk) 13:45, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Interesting. There was someone that used to edit my bio that worked for Prem Rawat. I think he was outed and banned at some point. It seems that a number of people with some axe to grind due to the Cult Education Institute (CEI) database have used my bio over the years for retaliation. BTW -- CEI is a tax-exempted educational nonprofit, which maintains an online library, not unlike Misplaced Pages. First established as a website (1996) and later converted to a database, CEI is an institutional member of the American and New Jersey Library Associations. I simply want Misplaced Pages to admin and edit my bio fairly based upon facts, not POV. Thank you for your interest.RickAlanRoss1952 (talk) 13:57, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Probably Jossi (last edit to your page) – left "under a cloud" during the second Rawat ArbCom case, and was later blocked for socking. But that's far from the only Rawat-involved editor having edited your bio that left (or had to leave) the premises – note that not all of those who left or had to leave the area are pro-Rawat. Explains part of my cautiousness, I hope. --Francis Schonken (talk) 14:47, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes. Seems like it was Jossi. The irony is that Rawat is a very small part of the CEI database. There has been quite a bit of POV and/or misleading edits at my bio. My hope is to sort through this with suggestions at the Talk page. I am trying to learn the ways of Misplaced Pages.RickAlanRoss1952 (talk) 15:09, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Re. "small part of the CEI database" – Yes, I know. I think Bibliography of Prem Rawat and related organizations is doing considerably better than http://www.culteducation.com/group/1219-divine-light-mission.html that apparently stopped following Rawat some two or three name changes of his organizations ago, if I may shamelessly promote a page that is for a large part my work. What CEI does better is the publication of primary sources like court transcripts (something Misplaced Pages due to its rules would generally avoid); another difference is that we would never keep a full copy of a copyrighted document like the Cade Metz piece (although we have a fair share of quotes at pages such as Talk:Prem Rawat/scholars, Talk:Prem Rawat/journalists, ... see more)

Whatsoever... wouldn't it be nice to have the DLM CEI page or http://www.cultnews.com/category/elanvitaldivinelightmission/ listed at the Bibliography of Prem Rawat and related organizations page? Alas it wouldn't be possible (yet) I believe. --Francis Schonken (talk) 16:51, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Per its disclaimer Misplaced Pages is not a reliable source. its disclaimer states, "Misplaced Pages cannot guarantee the validity of the information" it contains see https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:General_disclaimer fCEI is an online library with fully attributed articles, reports and documents. Guru Maharij (aka Prem Rawat) is historically known as a "cult leader" that hurt many people, Today very few people are interested in him and so he has a very small subsection at CEI, which reflects that fact see http://www.culteducation.com/group/1219-divine-light-mission.html.RickAlanRoss1952 (talk) 18:06, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

The irony being that for me Rawat is a thoroughly uninteresting topic. Re. "Today very few people are interested in him..." – I disagree, Cagan's 2007 book on him was a bestseller. I think you worded it better at the cultnews page: "... the old familiar groups called “cults” ... actually are still around such as ... Divine Light Mission ..., although they may now use new names ...". Also the buckloads of hurt feelings pouring into Misplaced Pages in connection with the Rawat article make your assertion that he hurt people only "historically" seem flawed.

Re. Misplaced Pages disclaimer: true, but doesn't impede Misplaced Pages editors from trying to get it right. There are several reasons why under current Misplaced Pages rules it is not possible to link to the CEI website as a reliable source. There are the questions about copyright clearance for some of the content on that website, there are the questions regarding editorial oversight of what is on the site (is it really only one person who decides what gets published, or is there a process of peer review?)... On Misplaced Pages there are some discussions regarding whether or not the site can be used as a reliable source. If you're interested I can look these up, and give you the links (unsorted, this is where I'd start). --Francis Schonken (talk) 06:01, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Talkback

Just in case you didn't see the message from C.Fred - MrX 14:43, 5 September 2015 (UTC)