Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 22:59, 12 August 2006

Cognitive-Theoretic Model of the Universe

With regards to your comments on Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Cognitive-Theoretic Model of the Universe: Please see Misplaced Pages's no personal attacks policy. "Do not make personal attacks anywhere in Misplaced Pages. Comment on content, not on the contributor. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users." Please keep this in mind while editing. Thanks.

Much as I hate making this sort of thing official, your comments about myself, Byrgenwulf and Jeffire on the above-mentioned AfD have, in my opinion, crossed the line. WP:NPA refers. Tevildo 01:38, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Response Pardon me, but I just noticed your message.

Byrgenwulf has been making unsupported, unverifiable attacks on the topic of this article. Indeed, in clear violation of Misplaced Pages policy regarding neutrality and verifiability, both of you have been attacking the content, or topic, of the article rather than the article itself. All that the article has to do is faithfully report what appeared in the press and was written by Langan; given the clear notability of the content, you have no right whatsoever to carp and complain about it, at least in the capacity of Misplaced Pages editors acting in good faith. All you can do is report what other sufficiently notable people have said about the theory in sufficiently reputable and verifiable sources. If you choose to carp and complain anyway, particularly in a way that influences how the article is edited - after all, voting for deletion amounts to attempting to edit the article, right out of existence in fact, and likewise for encouraging others to vote as you do - then you are yourself in contempt of Misplaced Pages policy, and it is hypocritical of you to complain when you get the worst of it.

Instead of supporting his (and your) claims, as is your editorial responsibility, Byrgenwulf ignored his responsibility and attempted to infuse his attacks with authority by claiming to be a professional philosopher of physics. He did this both voluntarily and dishonestly, and that is now a proven fact. Once you have been shown to be something, that's it - anybody can point it out, as many times as he or she likes. If Byrgenwulf has been shown to be dishonest, or not an expert as he claims to be, anyone is free to state as much whenever convenient. Misplaced Pages policy is not just something that people like Byrgenwulf, and you, and jeffire, can point to when you don't like the way things are going for you, but then ignore whenever you can get away with it. It is something that applies to you as well.

Incidentally, although you may think that I find your supercilious comments about philosophy impressive, this is anything but the case. Quite the opposite, in fact. I am quite certain, on the basis of your snide and shallow comments, that your level of philosophical understanding is nothing to respect. In fact, it may even be as deficient as Byrgenwulf's own. Please bear this in mind as you attempt to do the Misplaced Pages community, and the world at large, a monumental disservice by attacking a valuable, informative, and well-referenced article on a notable topic just to strike a blow for your own inability to comprehend it while meanwhile advancing your own opinions. Truly, this is a black mark on your record. Asmodeus 03:41, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Warning 19:36, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Please refrain from making personal attacks, this is a blockable offense, see WP:NPA. And especially stop using th edit summary to make personal attacks. --Pjacobi 19:36, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Response As you are very well aware, you were not attacked on personal grounds. It was merely pointed out to you and others that you are in violation of Misplaced Pages policy. You have failed to verify or in any way substantiate your biased remarks, which you are nevertheless using as grounds to recommend deletion of the article. Again, this is reprehensible, and that's a fact. Of course, I'm very sorry if your feelings were hurt in any way. My best advice to you would be to carefully review Misplaced Pages policy, and be sure to meet your editorial obligations in the future. Asmodeus 20:21, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I thought you were remembering your edits better. This one is the most blatant violation of WP:NPA

Pjacobi 20:24, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Let me refresh your memory.

pjacobi: Delete - one person's theory, not in any way in contact with academic reserach. --Pjacobi 13:44, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

My response: Who cares how many people wrote it, or whether it is "in contact with academic reserach"? If you want to read about things that are "in contact with academic reserach", you should subscribe to academic journals. Misplaced Pages is not an appendage of academia, and the CTMU nowhere relies on "contact with academic reserach" to make its points. Please, let's keep our eyes on the ball here. Asmodeus 15:48, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Now please read carefully.

1. Most theories are written by one person; others are free to utilize them (or not) in their own work later on down the line, as they choose. That others have not yet chosen to do so need not reflect on the theory or its applicability to important issues, particularly given the polarization associated with the central focus of the scholastic journal in which the CTMU was published. This is not necessarily a reflection on the theory; it is more likely pertinent to the philosophical assumptions under which others are working, which - inasmuch as we are, after all, talking about philosophy - may ultimately lead nowhere. Indeed, it may merely mean that other scholars are unfamiliar with the theory because they only pay attention to a narrow or professionally closed set of sources. You have improperly recommended this article for deletion on those grounds, and that was wrong of you as a Misplaced Pages editor.

This leads us to

2. It makes no difference whether a theory is "notable to academic researchers" (whether or not this is the case). It has been patiently explained to you that academics are not the ones who make this particular theory notable; it is notable because it was covered by highly reputable sources in the popular media, and because it has a remarkable structure that no other theory possesses. Again, citing the superficially apparent inattention of academia as grounds for deletion was irresponsible of you as a Misplaced Pages editor.

You have voted to delete an informative, well-verified article about a notable topic on irrelevant or nebulous grounds for which you have no verification. In so doing, you have let Misplaced Pages and its readership down. Please be more responsible about your editing activities in the future. Asmodeus 21:45, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

This is not about my vote but about you attacking another editor. --Pjacobi 21:58, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Again? --Pjacobi 22:14, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

You evidently failed to read the comments to which I was responding. Perhaps you also missed the bursts of fraud and disinformation emanating from Byrgenwulf at al. Maybe you did, maybe you didn't...I don't really care one way or the other. But in any case, please go away. Asmodeus 22:39, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Others also violating policy is no excuse. If you want to to report specific incidents, please give me or another admin a diff to the incident. You can also use Misplaced Pages:Personal attack intervention noticeboard. oh, you were already reported there, I see. Anyway, regarding abuse in edit comments, your contributions clearly stand out . --Pjacobi 23:09, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Ah...so you're an administrator (maybe). Pardon me, then - you were apparently only trying to do your job.

I was thrown off by the fact that you voted, non-neutrally and without verification for your editorial remarks. Surely an administrator doesn't want to be caught violating Misplaced Pages policy? I guess I'm a bit confused.

But may I ask you a question? Have you cited anyone else for incivility? A simple yes or no would do - I'm not interested in whom else you cited. I'd just like to ascertain that you're being balanced in your assessments, that's all. You've got a very bad show going on here, a regular grabastic kangaroo court, and in no way am I the cause of it.

But I think you probably knew that already, didn't you.

Anyway, thanks in advance for your forthcoming assurance of administrative symmetry (or maybe not...). Asmodeus 23:59, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

As you have guessed, I've warned nobody else. It was the attack in your edit summary that caught my eye. I checked whether the posting you were responding to was an attack and judged it not be. My actions as admin are unrelated to my actions as editor (like contributing to AfD -- it's not a vote actually). For this reason I'll most likely (read: if no immediate response is required) I have to involve another admin for deciding to actually block you. --Pjacobi 00:10, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Disruptive Incivility

These remarks, violate Misplaced Pages policies on personal attacks and civility. This kind of language becomes disruptive very quickly. Please don't do this any more, or it may be neccessary to temporarily suspend your editing privileges. Tom Harrison 01:51, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Blocked

The incivil hostility of these remarks is disruptive. I'm blocking you for twenty-four hours. When you come back, please take more care with your words. Tom Harrison 01:43, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

You're making a personal judgment call, and it's a bad one. In at least two of those comments, I was being positively moderate. In no case was anyone personally attacked, called names, or treated in any way that wouldn't have flown on any other site but this one. You're protecting miscreants, probably out of personal bias, and In my humble opinion, you're totally out of line. Just thought I'd let you know. Asmodeus 05:07, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Mega Society Article up for Deletion

As you have edited the article on the Mega Society, I wish to inform you it is up for deletion. I saw that you are active in the debate over the deletion of the CTMU article. Although I am not completely certain, I am suspicious that Byrgenwulf and Jefffire have put the Mega Society article up for deletion because of its (now tenuous) link with Christopher Langan and the CTMU. I mean no disrespect, but, especially since you have gotten into trouble with admins in the past, please be circumspect in your posts in both debates. It does not help our argument to even appear to be making personal attacks. —Tox 09:11, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

There is a difference between making personal attacks and correcting disinformation. The worst of which I can be accused is attempting to correct disinformation, sometimes a bit impatiently. (On the other hand, when editors of the CTMU article were falsely and maliciously accused of forging source material - that is, personally attacked, and repeatedly - nobody said a word, and no moderator lifted a finger. Clearly, something's not right there.) Regarding the Mega Society, I'm afraid you're on your own. I'm not interested in it or its Misplaced Pages article. If it is associated with Langan or the CTMU, that may well be a shame...but if the truth be told, probably more so for Langan and the CTMU than the Mega Society itself. (If there's anything else I can help you with, just let me know.) Asmodeus 13:35, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

Thanks for your efforts to save CTMU. No one can say we didn't try. You might want to add your opinion to the deletion review. Thanks again. Tim Smith 21:57, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

IRL

You seem to be a big fan of this CTMU thingie. I have to ask: are you by any chance Christopher Michael Langan IRL?

If so, as a matter of common courtesy, I think you need to disclose this on the talk page when you edit articles like Christopher Michael Langan or Mega Foundation. If challenged, this would help you make a case that your edits are in good faith. Misplaced Pages currently has a huge problem with vanity cruft, so many users are apt to become concerned when they see edits which suggest a possible undisclosed personal interest in slanting a WP article in some direction.---CH 23:19, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Response Thank you for your concern. However, from where I sit, it isn't my "good faith" that is at issue here. It's the good faith of the AfD initiator and his fellow instigators that is at issue. After all, I didn't write the CTMU article. Tim Smith did, and I don't know Mr. Smith from Adam.

Suffice it to say that I consider myself to be somewhat knowledgable regarding the topic of that article, and rather than let Misplaced Pages readers be deceived, disinformed, and otherwise steered wrong about it, feel a responsibility to edit any part of it which I know to be erroneous or malicious in nature. All of my edits to date have satisfied this criterion.

In addition, you should know that even if I wanted to introduce myself to you - and as it happens, I feel no such desire - I certainly wouldn't do so in any way that might advantage people whom I consider to be hostile, untrustworthy, or despicable, no matter how hard and hypocritically they try to blend into the Misplaced Pages community. Needless to say, that includes some of those involved in this AfD.

If there's anything else I can help you with, just let me know. If I don't find your request too arrogant, invasive, or adversarial, I may consider it. Now have a nice evening. Asmodeus 05:21, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

DRV

Hi,

I am going to assume that you were merely very confused. When an admin closes a log, one does not reopen it to add additional comments. Refer to the recently concluded section of the main DRV page for the result: in the case of CTMU, that result is "Deletion endorsed".

Repeated reversion of administrative closures would be grounds for a block; I'm sure your action today was a simple accident, though. Best wishes, Xoloz 23:23, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Miscellany for deletion/User:Hillman/Dig

Hi, Asmodeus, you will probably be interested in this MfD. ---CH 23:32, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Invitation

I notice that you've edited a few philosophy articles. Have you considered joining the Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Philosophy? It is an effort to coordinate the work of Wikipedians who are knowledgeable about philosophy in an effort to improve the general quality and range of Misplaced Pages articles on philosophical topics. DrL 21:50, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Another bout of personal attacks

You obviously already know about Misplaced Pages's policies on personal attacks and incivility, since you've been blocked for this kind of behaviour before. These edits (,), among many others, I regard as being unduly offensive, not to mention completely off-topic. Please stop this disruptive behaviour now. Thanks. Byrgenwulf 22:59, 12 August 2006 (UTC)