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Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Biography This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. India: Punjab Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by WikiProject Punjab (India) (assessed as Mid-importance). This article was last assessed in May 2012. Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details. Sikhism This article is part of WikiProject Sikhism, an attempt to promote better coordination, content distribution, and cross-referencing between pages dealing with Sikhism. Please participate by editing the article, or visit the project page for more details on the projects. Guidelines: Manual of Style - Naming conventionsSikhismWikipedia:WikiProject SikhismTemplate:WikiProject SikhismSikhism

Neutral POV & Original Research

As with many articles on Misplaced Pages about Sikhism, this badly needs to be rewritten with a NPOV, including more diverse and less obviously biased sources. The original research flag is added for authorial commentary that falls under NPOV issues as well. IronSheep (talk) 04:47, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

As a scholar of 17th century Indian religious history, I was sad to see that my section on Martyrdom had been deleted, despite citing numerous Sikhs including the foremost Sikh historian (J.S. Grewal), Bhai Gurdas, and Guru Gobind Singh Ji himself. The fact is that we don't know for sure how or why Guru Arjan died, and anyone with definite evidence is welcome to present it on this page.Duc de Montmorency (talk) 10:35, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Seen that my contribution has been deleted yet again by jssaggu. This user seems content to ignore any historical evidence and instead present religious writing as definitive historical fact.Duc de Montmorency (talk) 21:41, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Role of Chandu Shah obliterated

The role of Chandu Shah in stirring up the controversy against Guru Arjan that he has written blasphemous writtings against Hindus and Muslims has been surprisingly obliterated. It was Chandu Shah, who persuaded Jahangir to take action against the Guru. His role in the martyrdom of Guru Arjan cannot be ignored. Princhest 11:40 PM, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

The support for historical revisionism by suppressing the historical facts of martyrdom of Guru Arjan is deplorable. User:Utcursch is guilty of having abusive admin powers. User:Goingoveredge is stalking my edits and vandalizing Sikh historical facts all this going unwarned by the admin Utcursch. This is clearly biased against Sikhs and against their history. I specifically wanted to discuss the role of Chandu Shah, the Hindu revenue collector of Lahore and other high level Mughal officials in the martyrdom of Guru Arjan. I have provided acceptable historical referances for those. Please tap down on the trouble rouser not the historical facts.Princhest 17:05 PM, 30 August 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Princhest (talk 17:40 PM, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Please stop raising the bogey of Sikhs being discriminated against. I've made more contributions to Sikhism-related article than all of your contributions combined together. In fact, I've been called a "Sikh Extremist and Racist towards Hindus" by a user (now banned), and have been awarded a Special barnstar for Sikhism-related articles.

The article has been protected because of childish edit warring -- all the editors involved (not just you) in the revert war were blocked by User:J.smith.

The changes made by you (later restored by Roadahead) involved removal of four cite book templates, and constituted copyright violation. The content was copied from Sikh Spectrum, with a few words changed here and there. This can be confirmed by Googling random phrases that have been lifted from another site:

• "political necessity was forced to uphold Islamic Puritanism of Naqashbandi revivalists"
• "and Akbar’s forgiving his errant son and proclaiming him heir-apparent"
• "the Hindu position was listless except that they would hobnob"
• "Khusrau’s indiscreet revolt against his father on April 6, 1606 and his hurrying"

I find it amusing how you selectively copied the content that suited your point-of-view, and conveniently omitted concluding paras of the article: "Guru Arjun's martyrdom, the first of its kind in the history of Hindustan, the sub-continent, caused great resentment and indignation among the general body of Hindus and Muslims, apart from the Sikhs. One tends to agree with Ganda Singh that: 'Much of the Chandu-story was given currency, in those very days to shift the responsibility of tortures inflicted on the Guru from the Mughal Officials to the Kafirs. Chandu was only a minor official at Lahore, and hostile to the Sikh Panth (nation).'"

The article has not been protected for ever -- please utilize the time to read Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines. utcursch | talk 17:56, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Utcursch, the concluding part of article was author's own opinion and he doesn't provide any historical reference for that. Nevertheless, no body denies Chandu Shah's role in approaching the Emperor Jahangir and complaining against Guru Arjan. Nowhere, my edits included that was solely responsible but My point was to raise the issue of obliteration of his role in the article irrespective of his act being minor or major in Guru Arjan's martyrdom. And, I will keep myself more up to date with the guidelines. Cheers ! Princhest | talk 10:59, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

what is this?

i dont know how to describe it, im not very good at wikipedia, but it certainly does not belong in something resembling an encyclopedia. maybe weasel words? maybe npov? whatever.

"Thus Guru Sahib embraced death on..."

"The death of Guru Sahib changed the entire character of Sikhism radically from a passive people to courageous saint soldiers."

that type of thing.

Variant Spellings

Why does the name change from Arjan to Arjun and back again? I suggest (unless there is a specific meaning to this) that we settle on one spelling and mention any variants that are acceptable. Msalt 21:33, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

This is because of the same reason that muhammed can be spealt differently both of which is becasue its hard to translate directly into english

Well The name is Arjun and not Arjan.Back in 1800 's british historians spelled it ARJOON to make it pronouncable the way it was pronounced by sikhs.It should be corrected to Arjun.Arjan was used by historians holding not a great view about Guru Arjun.Ajjay (talk) 14:34, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

In situations like this it's policy to use the more common spelling, not what is more historically correct. Google says that "Arjan" is more common, at 63,300 for "Guru Arjan" (excluding Misplaced Pages-related hits), and 30,900 for "Guru Arjun". Britannica lists both with Arjan first, Sikhwiki.org lists him as Arjan (with Arjun as a redirect to it), etc. It seems that Arjan is more common, so we should probably use it as the main spelling. Arjun should of course still be listed as an alternate spelling in the first paragraph. But even if "Arjun" is technically more correct, Misplaced Pages uses what is most common. -kotra (talk) 02:10, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and change it back to Arjan as per my last comment. -kotra (talk) 20:54, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

I've also changed it now on all other articles. -kotra (talk) 22:09, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

But shouldn't the correct things be shown than what is more common or popular.After all numbers are not the right way to determine what is right or wrong.It is more of a mob thing.Like the sheep that jumped from a cliff!Ajjay (talk) 07:32, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

This is based on a Misplaced Pages guideline. The purpose is to make articles easier to find and identify for everyone. -kotra (talk) 21:14, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I should mention that even if the name is not as technically accurate as another, that doesn't prevent the article itself to describe and use the more accurate name, as long as it's backed up by a reliable source. The name itself doesn't have to be factually accurate, that's what the article is for. -kotra (talk) 21:38, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay, not to state the obvious, but it's spelled Arjun in Panjabi. The second vowel is a short u, not a short a; this is a fact supported by the Gurmukhi spelling on the page itself. The name is Arjun, just as it is for Arjun in Mahabharat. The fact that someone is citing google just means that google has it wrong. This looks like hypercorrection, due to people typically spelling short a as a u (see the debate of punjabi vs. panjabi). Nlsanand (talk) 03:26, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

I guess the question is 'what spelling is used in English?'. Generally, if there is a common English spelling, then we don't transliterate from the original language. --RegentsPark (talk) 03:29, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

The question would then need to be 'what pronounciation is used in English?'. I've never seen a short u transliterated to a spelling of a. Has his name ever been spelt ਅਰਜਨ . If there's a question of that, I'd buy it, but otherwise this really is just a spelling mistake.Nlsanand (talk) 03:51, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

the wikipedia site should have some sikhs come and tell them the correct thing

I am a Sikh and we've always pronounced Guru Arjan Dev Ji's name *differently* from Arjun of Mahabharat. Only after I was grown up, did I realize that they're probably the same word but pronounced differently by Sikhs. Sikhs pronounce the 'a' in Arjan as the first 'a' in Sanjay. (Its another matter why Sanjay is not spelt Sunjay, but that's just been the way Indians spell their names in English - and it causes westerners to mis-pronounce our names because we use an 'a' to produce the sound of a 'uh'). Going by the Indian way of spelling names and going by the Sikh pronounciation 'Arjan' is the right spelling. If spelt 'Arjun', it would be pronounced like the Arjun of Mahabharat and that would be different.--Lionsing (talk) 07:53, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Birthplace

Is the birthplace correct? I seem too find differences one other web site? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.243.92.12 (talk) 23:21, 21 March 2007 (UTC).

Let us know the website you saw a different birthplace on, and if it's a reliable source, we can include it as a possible birthplace too. -kotra (talk) 21:16, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Spelling about Arjan ji

I dont mean to be disrespectful and I think this has already been broughten up but what is the actual spelling? Is it Arjan or Arjun? It seems like Indian people in general usually spell it Arjun. So why is it Arjan then here? 71.105.87.54 (talk) 17:18, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Please refer to my response under 'Variant Spellings' above. There isn't any 'actual spelling' in English, since the name originates in a different language (which is neither the Hindi nor the Punjabi of today). Sikhs today pronounce it as 'Arjan', different from 'Arjun' of Mahabharat.--Lionsing (talk) 08:02, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Punjabis and Sindhis pronounce this name Arjan, not Arjun, however, the name is the same - in both cases the Pandava warrior of the Mahabharata. I have also changed the Gurmukhi spelling of hte name to remove the "u" matra. This is also the way it is written on several texts I have seen online and matches how it has been pronounced by people who have that name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.196.55.107 (talk) 03:11, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Death Date

The article says he died on May 30, 1606, but June 16 and Nanakshahi_calendar say June 16. What is the reason for the discrepancy, and what arguments or documentation can be adduced for the two dates? --Haruo (talk) 06:34, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

File:Dictation of the Guru Granth Saheb.jpg Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Dictation of the Guru Granth Saheb.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests November 2011 What should I do? Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so. If the image is non-free then you may need to upload it to Misplaced Pages (Commons does not allow fair use) If the image isn't freely licensed and there is no fair use rationale then it cannot be uploaded or used. This notification is provided by a Bot --CommonsNotificationBot (talk) 12:18, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Being a sikh , first bad thing is how name of my GURU is spelled ... it should be Guru Arjun Dev Ji at every place or at least only Guru would have solved the purpose but mentioning only name reflects disrespect. My projection is on the Martyrdom topic, in which the sense changes as day and night so i kindly respect you concerning members to please rectify this big blunder . and the next mistake which strikes my mind while typing these words is that even word "sikh" is shown wrongly spelled (underlined by red marker),that suggests addition of word "sikh" in your dictionary.Also name of my GURU is underlined by red marker showing that it is misspelled when its not.Again the highlighted topic needs rectification and we shall be very thankful to you ..... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 14.139.241.194 (talk) 06:10, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

changes made

I have streamlined his name from Arjun to Arjan. Infobox with image. Added wikilinks and repaired broken ones. Did minor edits here and there. (27.34.39.97 (talk) 12:47, 16 August 2012 (UTC))

Mughal accounts regarding the execution of Guru Arjan

Troubles between the Mughal authorities and the Sikh community began in the year 1573, after Jahangir the rightful heir of Akbar, subdued a ferocious rebellion put up by his own son Khusrau Mirza, who had gathered a powerful army consisting of 3000 warriors and relentlessly besieged the city of Lahore and Guru Arjan had clearly given assistance and support to the unpopular renegades within the Imperial ranks. This account seems to be wrong. Guru was born in the year 1563 and as per this account Guru met Khusrau Mirza in the year 1573 which means that Guru in the year 1573 was only 10 years of age and was not having title of Guru as he was made Guru only at the age of 18 years of age in the year 1581. Hence there is some wrong expression in this story. As far as I have read this episode happened in the year 1603 , after the death of Emperor Akbar when family fight started for throne as Akbar wanted Khusrau to be installed instead of Salim. Salim supported by relegious fanatics took over as Emperor Jahangir and then Khurau fled towards Lahore and on the way met the Guru at Goindwal sahib. This meeting was used by opponents of Guru to feed the ears of Jahangir against the Guru and for helping khusrau Jahangir acted against Guru Arjan Dev.

I deleted this whole section since it is confusing, contradictory and the dates are all messed up. e.g. It states that troubles began in 1573, even though jahangir was born in 1569 and khusrau was born in1587 --Yuvpsi (talk) 12:46, 12 June 2014 (UTC)

Footnotes

I was taking a look at the footnotes. There is no reference to any Sikh scholars, would it not make sense to look into Sikh literature for things that are talked about here? In specific, Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji's(doesn't matter how you spell it btw. It can't be properly translated into English) martyrdom. And it would make sense for Jahangir to "cover his tracks". He killed his father and had already killed his other brother(accused of converting to Hinduism). He needed to find a reason to kill his brother and accused him of conspiring to over throw him(Jahangir). Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji supposedly supported him(the brother) and this is very questionable. It has been taken as support but in fact Guru Ji only "touched his head" and this was taken as Guru Ji supporting the brother(not from a Sikh source). so all in all, it is just something to think about. IMO it would only make sense to look at Sikh history through at least a few Sikh sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sgill19 (talk • contribs) 17:43, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Death

I have changed the details of Arjan Dev's death according to this, this, this source. The reason behind Guru Arjan Dev's death actually seem to be both supporting Khusrau and the growing influence of Sikhs. Jahangir had himself said in his autobiography Tuzk-e-Jahangiri concerning Arjan's support for Jahnagir's rebellious son Khusrau and that too many people were being persuaded by Arjan's teachings and if he did not become a Muslim then the Sikh Panth had to be extinguished. The BBC source saying he was martyred due to including Muslim and Hindu scriptures in Adi Granth is therefore incorrect especially when Jahangir's autobiography states something else. The real reason for his death seems to be growing influence of Sikhism and the cause of death thus remains a mystery. KahnJohn27 (talk) 05:38, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Also sources like BBC shouldn't be used in historical articles since they often tend to ignore other facts. Only scholary sources should be used. KahnJohn27 (talk) 06:32, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

This source by Rajmohan Gandhi and this source by A.S. Bhalla mentions that Jahangir wrote in his writings that he ordered Arjan Dev to be put for death for blessing Khusrau. KahnJohn27 (talk) 07:05, 9 December 2014 (UTC)

Anti-Muslim tone has to be rid from articles regarding Sikhism

This article contained words and sentences that blamed the entire Muslim community as a whole for the trial and execution of the Guru. Please note: "Hatred has no place in any Misplaced Pages article". 182.182.53.39 (talk) 09:54, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Unexplained deletion

I have reverted the unexplained deletion by Baddowalia (talk) of an image in the infobox. If Baddowalia disputes the image, this is the place to give the reason. Apuldram (talk) 17:57, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

@SiddharthSunny edits

@SiddharthSunny: Don't edit war. Please see Pashaura Singh's paper, and you will see support for the changes I made. If you have concerns, please explain. Ms Sarah Welch (talk) 21:43, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

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