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:::Indeed, I checked the article, made a few edits, checked the reliable sources, made a few changes, checked the votes, assessed that eight people shot to death in a European city was news, and posted it. So I respected all parts of the process. Next question? ] (]) 21:17, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
:::Indeed, I checked the article, made a few edits, checked the reliable sources, made a few changes, checked the votes, assessed that eight people shot to death in a European city was news, and posted it. So I respected all parts of the process. Next question? ] (]) 21:17, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
::::All the parts except the one called ] (which is not just "checking the votes", but you know, respecting them), which IIRC was the thing that you most accused the aforementioned "bad admin" of breaking. ] (]) 21:22, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
::::All the parts except the one called ] (which is not just "checking the votes", but you know, respecting them), which IIRC was the thing that you most accused the aforementioned "bad admin" of breaking. ] (]) 21:22, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
:::::Are you being deliberately funny? The ed17 posted the previous story inside SEVEN MINUTES. Get a grip. We have a known number of victims, we have established, verifiable sources, we have a number of the community saying "wait" until something concrete (well, eight dead in Munich is concrete). If you wish to continue this debate, take it to my talk page, or ANI or Arbcom or somewhere, because this is becoming a little tiresome. Learn the difference between rogue playmaking with the main page, and respect for Wikipedians' opinions and how ITN works, then get back to me. ] (]) 21:25, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
This candidates page is integrated with the daily pages of Portal:Current events. A light green header appears under each daily section – it includes transcluded Portal:Current events items for that day. You can discuss ITN candidates under the header.
Blurbs are one-sentence summaries of the news story.
Altblurbs, labelled alt1, alt2, etc., are alternative suggestions to cover the same story.
A target article, bolded in text, is the focus of the story. Each blurb must have at least one such article, but you may also link non-target articles.
Articles in the Ongoing line describe events getting continuous coverage.
The Recent deaths (RD) line includes any living thing whose death was recently announced. Consensus may decide to create a blurb for a recent death.
All articles linked in the ITN template must pass our standards of review. They should be up-to-date, demonstrate relevance via good sourcing and have at least an acceptable quality.
Nomination steps
Make sure the item you want to nominate has an article that meets our minimum requirements and contains reliable coverage of a current event you want to create a blurb about. We will not post about events described in an article that fails our quality standards.
Find the correct section below for the date of the event (not the date nominated). Do not add sections for new dates manually – a bot does that for us each day at midnight (UTC).
Create a level 4 header with the article name (==== Your article here ====). Add (RD) or (Ongoing) if appropriate.
Then paste the {{ITN candidate}} template with its parameters and fill them in. The news source should be reliable, support your nomination and be in the article. Write your blurb in simple present tense. Below the template, briefly explain why we should post that event. After that, save your edit. Your nomination is ready!
You may add {{ITN note}} to the target article's talk page to let editors know about your nomination.
The better your article's quality, the better it covers the event and the wider its perceived significance (see WP:ITNSIGNIF for details), the better your chances of getting the blurb posted.
When the article is ready, updated and there is consensus to post, you can mark the item as (Ready). Remove that wording if you feel the article fails any of these necessary criteria.
Admins should always separately verify whether these criteria are met before posting blurbs marked (Ready). For more guidance, check WP:ITN/A.
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Sometimes, editors ask to retract an already-posted nomination because of a fundamental error or because consensus changed. If you feel the community supports this, remove the item and mark the item as (Pulled).
Voicing an opinion on an item
Format your comment to contain "support" or "oppose", and include a rationale for your choice. In particular, address the notability of the event, the quality of the article, and whether it has been updated.
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Oppose an item just because the event is only relating to a single country, or failing to relate to one. We post a lot of such content, so these comments are generally unproductive.
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Comment on a story without first reading the relevant article(s).
Thousands gather in Istanbul's Taksim Square in a show of support for the new powers that President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has received in order to crackdown on dissent following the attempted coup. (The Telegraph)
China begins demolishing buildings and evicting residents at Larung Gar in Tibet, one of the largest religious institutes in the world. Officials put forward overpopulation and security as the leading reasons for the planned action. (BBC)(AP via ABC News)
First article updated, second needs updatingNominator's comments: In the period between 4.1 and 3.8 billion years ago, the so-called Late Heavy Bombardment occurred during which the inner solar system was blasted by asteroids. But we don't know a lot about the nature of these asteroids, whether they were comets, if water was brought to the Earth via these impacts. The newly determined size of the Imbrium impactor being so much larger than the previous estimates will lead to a different pciture about the late heavy bombardment. The breakup of a large impactor when it collides with the Moon or other planet causes large chunks of it to escape back into space, these will then impact planets later. So, some considerable fraction of the smaller impacts due to kilometer sized asteroids were in fact due to chunks blasted off the larger impactors. Count Iblis (talk) 20:48, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
MH370 Pilot Zaharie Ahmad Shah practiced beforehand
Article:Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 (talk·history·tag) Blurb: MH370 Pilot Zaharie Ahmad Shah practiced suicide routes deep into the remote southern Indian Ocean on his home flight simulator. (Post) News source(s):NYMAG Credits:
Nominator's comments: "The document presents the findings of the Malaysian police’s investigation into Zaharie. It reveals that after the plane disappeared in March of 2014, Malaysia turned over to the FBI hard drives that Zaharie used to record sessions on an elaborate home-built flight simulator. The FBI was able to recover six deleted data points that had been stored by Microsoft Flight Simulator X program in the weeks before MH370 disappeared, according to the document. Each point records the airplane’s altitude, speed, direction of flight, and other key parameters at a given moment. The document reads, in part:
"Based on the Forensics Analysis conducted on the 5 HDDs obtained from the Flight Simulator from MH370 Pilot’s house, we found a flight path, that lead to the Southern Indian Ocean, among the numerous other flight paths charted on the Flight Simulator, that could be of interest, as contained in Table 2."
Taken together, these points show a flight that departs Kuala Lumpur, heads northwest over the Malacca Strait, then turns left and heads south over the Indian Ocean, continuing until fuel exhaustion over an empty stretch of sea." Count Iblis (talk) 19:59, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Strong oppose Speculation by correlation. (Especially as it seems NY Magazine is breaking this ... NYMag is not the National Inquirer or the Daily Mail, but they're not the NYTimes or BBC either...) --MASEM (t) 20:04, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose - Single source information, and not of the highest caliber. Needs other news agencies pick it up and have more firm proof and response from officials/investigators. -- Fuzheado | Talk20:07, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Article:2016 Munich shootings (talk·history·tag) Blurb: Police hunt attackers after shootings in Munich (Post) Alternative blurb: Police hunt attackers after at least six people are killed in shootings at a shopping centre in Munich. Alternative blurb II: At least eight people are killed in shootings at a shopping centre in Munich. News source(s):BBC Credits:
Lean support but wait on details There is word people have been killed, which would be easily a support, but its not confirmed when I just checked the BBC. I would lean oppose if it is just shots with no injuries. --MASEM (t) 18:57, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
No, it's an accurate observation of previously prematurely posted articles. There was no spirit of comity or collaboration when those were made, this is not a personal attack, it's serious and hard-hitting advice to any admin who wants to post this item before it's mature and before there's a consensus to do so. Thanks. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:35, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
This isn't the place for further pot shots, if you're unable to communicate behavioral concerns civilly and in the appropriate forum you should refrain from commenting at all; you discussed this issue at length at AN were advised by the closing admin to "learn to let it go"; I will reiterate the advice that per WP:NPA you should not be derogatively commenting on other contributors, and this is doubly unacceptable from an administrator. Please continue conducting yourself according to the standard that is expected of you and leave the dire "advice" to be given by users with a less emotional involvement. Swarm♠20:58, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
This is precisely the place to warn people to stop behaving like other admins (and WMF employees) and an explicitly important message to all of those with an itchy trigger finger. Your attempt to berate me is pointless and is insulting to those who actually actively work hard as admins with the trust of the community, who act in line with the community consensus. You're a poor apologist for a rogue admin who should be de-sysopped. My post here is intended to remind other possible rogue admins that such actions will not be tolerated. Not one personal attack has taken place here, it's all pure fact. If you don't understand that, perhaps you should do something else instead. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:04, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Wait but I don't think we'll need to wait long. See the 19:53 update at which cites "local media" saying the police are describing it as an "acute terror threat". Media is also coalescing around a figure of 6 deaths, I've added an altblurb with this. Thryduulf (talk) 19:07, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
The hatnote on a breaking news article already provides a clear warning to any reader. "This article documents a current event. Information may change rapidly as the event progresses, and initial news reports may be unreliable." We've had this back and forth before - the value of a news box is that we highlight... news! That we would intentionally not inform front page visitors that we have an active article about the topic is reducing our relevance and usefulness. (And as in previous conversations, let's not debate WP:NOTNEWS) -- Fuzheado | Talk19:20, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
No, this isn't a ticker, there are problems with the article, we need to get a consensus to post and that the consensus agrees the quality is sufficient. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:36, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Wait. The event is almost certainly significant, but the facts are very confused and our article is poorly developed with few details yet and very scrappy writing and structure. I would help improve it but don't have time right now. Fences&Windows19:23, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose, since just saying wait seems not to care anyone. Please everyone remember that Misplaced Pages is not a newspaper. Just have some patience. --bender235 (talk) 19:52, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Please read WP:NOTNEWS carefully and you'll discover that it's about original research, notability and reliable sourcing. It is not an argument against timeliness. -- Fuzheado | Talk19:58, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
And please recall that recent events just here have seen rogue and subsequently admonished admins making rash and hurried decisions against consensus and without due care and attention. There is no need to rush into this, so stop harassing those who think a pause is a good idea here. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:00, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Referring to and quoting policy is "harassing someone?" That's a very warped definition of harassing, which I think explains a lot. -- Fuzheado | Talk20:15, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Responding to and misusing policy is harassing people. Now I'd advise you to stop that please, after all we'd hate to see another admin lost to the four corners for lack of competence. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:37, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
While including information on recent developments is sometimes appropriate, breaking news should not be emphasized or otherwise treated differently from other information We aren't going to post breaking events if WP:V and general base quality standards can't be met by the articl. --MASEM (t) 20:02, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Wait for now. The article is in a terrible shape, and it currently has an unacceptable title ("2016 Munich terrorist shooting attacks", seriously? we don't use "terrorist" in most titles even when it's a known terrorist attack, partly because of WP:TERRORIST, and here we go ahead and use it in the title even though we hadn't know anything at all about the events or their motives at this point?). It might be of limited worldwide interest, too, depending on the direction it develops in. LjL (talk) 20:47, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Another alt blurb added. We need to ensure the article is reflective of this, but otherwise I see no reason to delay now, eight people in a Western European city have been killed by gunmen, that's rare as, regardless of the perps. Get the article up to snuff and it's good to go. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:52, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
You complained about early posting against consensus, but to be honest, I almost only see "wait"s and some "opposes" here, followed by your "to me it's ready to post" and shortly followed by your posting it. I'm just saying... LjL (talk) 21:15, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Indeed, I checked the article, made a few edits, checked the reliable sources, made a few changes, checked the votes, assessed that eight people shot to death in a European city was news, and posted it. So I respected all parts of the process. Next question? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:17, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
All the parts except the one called WP:CONSENSUS (which is not just "checking the votes", but you know, respecting them), which IIRC was the thing that you most accused the aforementioned "bad admin" of breaking. LjL (talk) 21:22, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Are you being deliberately funny? The ed17 posted the previous story inside SEVEN MINUTES. Get a grip. We have a known number of victims, we have established, verifiable sources, we have a number of the community saying "wait" until something concrete (well, eight dead in Munich is concrete). If you wish to continue this debate, take it to my talk page, or ANI or Arbcom or somewhere, because this is becoming a little tiresome. Learn the difference between rogue playmaking with the main page, and respect for Wikipedians' opinions and how ITN works, then get back to me. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:25, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Remove Pokemon Go from ongoing
It's been there for about a week. The main news now is that it is becoming available in more countries, which are not updates strong enough to make it still relevant for ITN ongoing. We posted it as ongoing as we could not agree on a blurb, a blurb would roll off the Main page by now. Suggesting to do the same now. --Tone17:45, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Neutral – Still circulating the news quite a bit and it remains a huge sensation; the article is still getting hundreds of thousands of views daily. However, things do appear to be calming down and editing is getting less frequent. Most of what I have done is small statistical updates, the biggest news appears to have passed. I do have a personal bias toward keeping the article (huge Pokémon fan and I've invested a lot of time improving the article) but objectively it's getting close to that time for taking it down. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 17:50, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Support - It ran its course. If a particularly crushing news story comes up claiming it's the most widely used mobile app in the world, we can maybe consider reposting it.--WaltCip (talk) 18:16, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Nominator's comments: Indian Air Force plane gone missing, article is only a paragraph right now but I am sure will be updated more as more information is added. Andise1 (talk) 15:47, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Support - Even if mostly military personal , still a significant aviation incident. I just would give this a few hours to make sure details stablize or if more can come out, as the article is a tad short. --MASEM (t) 16:49, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Article needs updatingNominator's comments: Time to report the death of another historic figure, the VCR . Leaving jokes aside, it is a very notable technology of the past that I think is worthwhile pointing out. Nergaal (talk) 14:54, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose Even with a proper blurb, this is only in Japan, not worldwide. And with physical-based distribution, there will be a huge tail before it "dies". --MASEM (t) 15:11, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Support - it's not Japan that stops producing, but rather the last existing producer of VCRs (who happens to be Japanese). Obviously notable, a once a groundbreaking and gamechanging technology dies. 79.193.104.97 (talk) 19:12, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose since this has been re-opened. I expect it to be re-closed in the next hour or so. This is tech-trivia, not ITN in any way, shape or form. Regardless of the malformed nomination and the subsequent actions. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:14, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Article needs updatingNominator's comments: Article needs some improvement, but otherwise a significant story, with several medallists also involved. Brandmeister12:14, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Support and comment Might be worth tying this in with a super-blurb of what's happening to the Russians too. Lugnuts12:35, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose ... and? This are findings that allow them to initiate full-on investigation towards the athletes in question (as per the IOC statement), which will likely end up with various bans, medal stripping, etc. (since a lot of these were medal winners). This also appears to be something they plan to keep ongoing (the 3rd and 4th waves mentioned) through Rio 2016. The final results will be of note (as in the case of the Russia doping, the announcement they were barred from an international event). --MASEM (t) 14:31, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
That they will be (most likely) barred or stripped off medals is rather an expected and natural consequence based on findings. Tomorrow or the day after IOC also plans to decide what to do with Russian team anyway. Brandmeister14:47, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
But they are being given the nature of a trial, so innocent until proven guilty and all that. At the point they are banned/stripped is when we should post. --MASEM (t) 15:12, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Well the key difference here is that the Russian athletes as a group have been found guilty and now individuals have to prove themselves innocent in order to compete. Only in death does duty end (talk) 16:00, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Not every athlete in this current finding is Russian, though. I saw across the board of nationalities represented. From what I read, the doping by the Russian track + field team is a separate investigation (across all track & field competitions) while this IOC is specifically looking at the 2008 + 2012 Summer Games. There might be overlap, but we should be careful to conflate. --MASEM (t) 16:15, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Leaning support. On top of the previous finds, almost 10% of the selected samples for reanalysis points to doping. That number is huge, but this is not very obviously covered in the news, nor it is well covered here (in the linked article). Nergaal (talk) 14:48, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Support but wait - Agree this is huge in terms of scope and profile, but as @Masem: points out, we need to know the fallout and not just the findings before it's a headline story. -- Fuzheado | Talk16:07, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Following the Nampala attack, the government of Mali declares a three-day mourning period for the 17 soldiers killed in the attack, as well as a state of emergency for three months across the country. (Reuters)
Breitbart tech editor and outspoken conservative gay activist Milo Yiannopoulos with more than 338,000 registered followers is "permanently" banned from Twitter. (Guardian)
A Médecins Sans Frontières (Doctors Without Borders) ship rescues 209 people, including 50 children, from two dinghies in distress in the Mediterranean Sea but finds 22 dead bodies, 21 women and a child, lying in a pool of fuel in the bottom of one of the boats. The dinghies were 17 miles east of Tripoli, Libya. Cause of death is unknown, though an MSF official says it could be that fumes from mixed fuel and water rendered the people unconscious. The MSF ship is expected to arrive in the Sicilian port of Trapani on Friday.(Reuters)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.Nominator's comments: Prolific critical journalist, very probably murdered Yakikaki (talk) 14:02, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
I couldn't find any claim online and in English that supported the sentence, so I took the liberty of removing it. It can always be put there again if it turns out it was true. Yakikaki (talk) 15:27, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.Nominator's comments: American socialite and philanthropist. Statements in artilce are cited to reliable sources. MurielMary (talk) 11:06, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Nominated RDs must still be shown to be In The News- that has never changed. I'm not necessarily saying that the sources you have given mean otherwise- just that some more mainstream ones would make me feel better about it. 331dot (talk) 11:51, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Per331dot, the requirement that nominations actually appearing in news sources has not been removed. What has been removed is people's personal likes or dislikes, awareness of or lack of awareness of, and other similar criteria based on people's opinions of "importance" or "merit" or "notability". --Jayron3216:06, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose - If the person is important or notable, the article needs to be properly and sufficiently cited as such.--WaltCip (talk) 17:47, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
The person is already established as being notable as they have a WP article (non-notable = no article). The article is already cited to reliable sources. Not sure of the basis of the opposition vote? MurielMary (talk) 22:50, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the response WaltCip. However, the place to discuss notability of a subject is in a "article for deletion" nomination. The new RD criteria only deal with quality of article. MurielMary (talk) 20:06, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Comment have added two further sources, from NY and the UK. Jayron and 331dot can you direct me to where the criteria of "mainstream sources" is recorded in the RD criteria? Thanks MurielMary (talk) 20:22, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Support Article length and sourcing is good. While this death happens to be on the NY Times front page, I agree that even if the death is mentioned in a very smalltown newspaper's obituary section, as long as we have a quality article it must be posted under the new criteria. Mamyles (talk) 20:50, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Weak oppose while I agree with the majority of the previous post, this is hardly a comprehensive article, it's just about avoiding having a stub tag. 36 years of her life are completely overlooked, presumably when she was most active as a socialite and making the most of life, so I can't support the article in its current, incomplete state. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:02, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Except for her husband having an affair, what is missing from the article? It seems pretty much in line with the NY Times source. She was known primarily for hosting parties with a lot of powerful friends, and writing books about it. Mamyles (talk) 21:41, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Agree with Mamyles - how is the article incomplete? What is missing? Her whole adult life is covered. Well above stub status. MurielMary (talk) 22:52, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
When I reviewed the article, there was no mention of anything that she had done (besides having three kids) between 1946 and 1982. That's what I considered incomplete. It's marginally better now. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:02, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose See, this is where the criteria fall down. Having a Misplaced Pages article = Notable. Why? What is she famous for? Holding parties, buying clothes, and being friends with some famous people? And people wonder why Misplaced Pages has a gender bias. This is not an important person. Laura Jamieson (talk)23:06, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Interesting. Therefore all the bios of socialites and philanthropists should be deleted from WP? This simply raises the inherently subjective question of "important to whom" or "notable in whose eyes". If someone is reported on internationally, both while alive and on her death, how does that fall below notability? MurielMary (talk) 23:16, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
I wouldn't waste my time. This is an inherent failing of Misplaced Pages, not of ITN, that unimportant people who have achieved nothing apart from being friends with other "important people" can merit articles. They certainly shouldn't be given the dignity of an RD. But, for the sake of WP:GNG, the article still doesn't explain why we should care about her. Laura Jamieson (talk)23:22, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
To sum up the article. Was born. Married someone. Bought clothes. Got fined for importing clothes with fake prices. Was in a bit of a scandal with her husband's mistress after he died. Threw parties. Was friends with a First Lady. Did a bit of charity. Died. Laura Jamieson (talk)23:36, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
This is not the location to question the existence of the article. One person's 'unimportant' is another's 'very important', hence the change in RD criteria. I've said what you can do if you feel this person does not merit an article- but you declined to do so. If you do not wish to suggest the page for deletion, please move on. 331dot (talk) 00:04, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Comment Frankly, opposes about importance don't carry any weight now. If anyone wants to change the ITN/DC, there's another page for that. The article is of sufficient quality to post, marking . Mamyles (talk) 14:46, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose at this point While well-sourced, the article is very poorly organized and not Main Page ready at present. Her "adult life" section is not organized uniformly chronologically or thematically, and could do well with some sub-sections delineating how the article should be organized. Additionally, the introduction of the article states that "he was considered a fashion icon" without providing any description of what this means in the rest of the article besides "Bloomingdale began travelling to Paris regularly to view and purchase haute couture clothing. Over the coming decades she amassed a collection of over 100 gowns and outfits" and that there was an exhibit about her at a college. Finally, and perhaps a more minor concern compared to the other issues noted, is that she is noted as being a "philanthropist" in the article's opening sentence, but the article provides only sparse information about what she actually did as a philanthropist. Removing ready. Spencer15:53, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the detailed analysis Spencer. I'm confused though by your comment that there is only sparse information on her charity work, as there is a complete paragraph describing this? Also the statement on "fashion icon" being unclear is odd, as the mention is followed by cited facts on appearing in best dressed lists, and supported in the article with a mention of the exhibition based on her fashion collection. MurielMary (talk) 20:10, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose. Short article that really needs some work to match the proper tone - it reads like a series of bullet points, instead of a biography. Challenger l (talk) 17:04, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Comment perhaps editors would benefit from reviewing the new RD criteria. This nomination is at risk of becoming stale and un-postable as it has been derailed by discussions of irrelevant points such as the type of sources considered acceptable for the death announcement (no longer required - or at least, not described in the RD criteria) and the notability of the subject (no longer required, and the "articles for deletion" process exists if editors want to pursue that discusstion). MurielMary (talk) 20:13, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
Article needs updating Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.Nominator's comments: Well-known Romanian theater actor, the oldest one alive in Romania and one of the oldest in the world. Andise1 (talk) 02:22, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.Nominator's comments: Sitting member of the U.S. House of Representatives dies of prostate cancer at 49. Does need some more sources. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:27, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Weak support on improvement This is a tough call, because we normally don't place Congress members in RD, even incumbent ones (such as Alan Nunnelee). However, his election in 2014 was hotly contested, with Takai winning by 51–47, so his death might have a bigger impact. I think we could get this posted if we can get the article up to standard.Support based on new RD criteria; the article still has a couple of "citation needed" tags, but I don't see any glaring flaws. EternalNomad (talk) 23:19, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
@EternalNomad: Remember that the RD criteria changed, so now we're back to posting articles as long as the quality is sufficient, regardless of our interpretation of their "super notability". – Muboshgu (talk) 23:47, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
With nothing particularly remarkable or groundbreaking about this deal, it seems unlikely it will gain consensus. SNOW close. 331dot (talk) 21:21, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Question: I'm not too familiar with the shaving industry--is this a record-breaking deal? In the Dollar Shave Club article, it says that the company has 2 million subscribers, which doesn't seem that large in the grand scheme of things, but correct me if I'm wrong. This seems like a routine corporate acquisition. Spencer17:18, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose US$1 billion is fairly small in terms of business acquisitions. Unilever is a massive multinational company but I don't think purchasing a startup that has yet to turn a profit meets the bar for ITN. Also, each article only has single sentence updates. Fuebaey (talk) 18:30, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.Nominator's comments: Mohammed Shahid Indian hockey legend of the eighties, who was part of 1980 Moscow Olympics gold medalist team, died at the age of 56.
Support when fully referenced. The article has enough prose now to post, although reference expansion is always welcome. Thryduulf (talk) 19:34, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose The article makes an uncited claim that he invented a novel hockey stroke. I played field hockey myself at school and am not convinced – it seems to have been a regular push pass with a good strong technique. Andrew D. (talk) 06:30, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
2016 Nampala attack: At least 12 soldiers are killed and 27 others injured after unidentified militants briefly overrun a government base in central Mali, near the border with Mauritania. The attackers also burn and loot the adjacent village of Nampala. (Reuters)
26 people who were mainly from China and aboard a tour bus die after it crashes into a highway railing while en route to Taoyuan International Airport and bursts into flames. (Reuters)
Three people are killed, including the male attacker, in a shotgun shooting outside a swimming pool in Spalding, Lincolnshire, U.K.. The victims are reported to be a 40-year-old mother and her 20-year-old daughter; both apparently knew the suspect. (Daily Mirror)
A Kansas City police captain has been shot dead in Kansas City, Kansas. One suspect is in custody and two others are possibly at large. (Breaking 911)
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.Nominator's comments: Argentine playwright. Fuebaey (talk) 13:30, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Nominator's comments: The follow up to the coup story, in some ways even bigger than the coup itself, since it reshapes Turkish government and entrenches Erdogan. About 3.5 million people work in the public sector in Turkey, which means that one in every hundred public servants in Turkey has been arrested or fired, and a third of judges and every single university dean is gone. Smurrayinchester10:05, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose The first blurb is succinct enough, but the 2016 Turkish purges article needs fleshing out first. The actual updated content (after the background section) is mainly a timeline of events. Multiple headings proceeded by one sentence shows how sparse the article is. Fuebaey (talk) 13:38, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
I don't think we need to clutter up the blurb with "alleged Gülenists." Let them read about that in the story. Sca (talk) 14:20, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
This is too restrictive, since these are biggies, but he had much more down: 24 TV stations had their licenses revoked, all public servants and all academics are restricted from leaving the country, and the latest is that 626 educational institutions were closed. We shouldn't mention specific portions of these, because the sum is much, much greater than the parts here.
Update - I think the original blurb is OK, and the updated blurb should be placed at the top of the box. Banedon (talk) 14:53, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Support - This is actually really big news. It could very well have major implications for democracy in Turkey. Kurtis16:33, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Support. I made some updates to the article, and I think it's in a decent enough shape. The original blurb is reasonable, and since Gülen is being insisted on so much by Erdogan, I think it's worth mentioning. LjL (talk) 18:31, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Support original blurb or second alt-blurb. This is a massive story, and I think it should be posted as a new blurb rather than just an update of the existing one so it doesn't drop off prematurely. Thryduulf (talk) 19:29, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.Nominator's comments: Legendary movie and TV show director in Hollywood. Creator of "Happy Days," and director of multiple films. Fuzheado | Talk03:36, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Support Inducted into multiple entertainment hall of fames, he was a well respected director and actor who created some of the most iconic sitcoms in the 1970s. SomeoneNamedDerek (talk) 04:25, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose until the rest of the article is adequately referenced. I keep adding {{cn}} tags where I think it needs to be addressed but a pathetic IP editor keeps removing them, and I can't be bothered to fight with them. The Rambling Man (talk) 04:44, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
Three policemen and one civilian are killed in Almaty, Kazakhstan, in an attack on a police station by a radical Islamist. One gunman is reportedly still at large. (RT)
Four people have been injured after a man with an axe attacks people on board a train near Würzburg in Germany. The axeman has reportedly been shot by police and is reportedly a 17-year-old Afghan man who pledged allegiance to ISIL before the attack. (BBC), (Indian Express), (Daily Mail)
At least one person is reportedly killed and others are taken hostage after an armed group seized control of the police headquarters in the Erebuni District of Yerevan, Armenia. The gunmen are demanding the release of jailed opposition figure, Jirair Sefilian, according to Armenia's National Security Service. (RT)
UN-backed talks are underway in Tunis regarding the future of Libya, including discussions on forming a unified army for the Government of National Accord. (RTE)
Local officials report eight people were killed on Friday when their elevator fell 18 stories in an under-construction apartment building in the port city of Longkou in Shandong province of eastern China. (AP)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The nominated event is listed on WP:ITN/R, so each occurrence is presumed to be important enough to post. Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article and update meet WP:ITNCRIT, not the significance. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:30, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Support on principle but article needs work; the "field" section needs quite a bit of clean-up as it looks untidy and unprofessional. - YellowDingo(talk)03:54, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
I don't think this !vote should be taken into consideration because, as this is ITNR, we are not looking at the notability article but more the quality. This is borderline trolling and no help to the ITNC. I recommend the closing admin disregards this !vote. - YellowDingo(talk) 10:53, 18 July 2016 (UTC) Fair enough WaltClip; you are right so have strucken the comment. - YellowDingo(talk)05:29, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
@331dot: so what should I do? Per "Please do not ... ", a simple "Support"/"Oppose" is not sufficient. And I'm not the only one to refer to that. HandsomeFella (talk) 10:24, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
You don't need to say support or oppose at all with an ITNR item. Discussions on ITNR items are only to determine if the article is adequately updated and agree on a blurb. 331dot (talk) 10:31, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Constructive comments about what picture to use are also welcome, and are just as important as the wording of the blurb. Thryduulf (talk) 10:46, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Support. I think the article is in good enough shape. The "Field" section could be better formatted but that is not a blocker imo. I do agree with HandsomeFella about the picture - we only have the one of him outdoors (see right) and that's from 2008 but I still prefer it. Thryduulf (talk) 10:55, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose Would like to see more prose in the earlier rounds, similar to Test cricket/NBA finals/World Series ITN/R articles (4 rounds/matches/games, 4 paragraph summaries). It would also help if prose was cited. The "Field" section is standard across golf major articles - I don't see a reason to change the layout to suit ITN. There's either a 2-year old picture of Stenson at an awards ceremony or an 8-year old one of the Swede at a tournament. If there's no obvious change in his visage, we could go for the latter. Fuebaey (talk) 16:35, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Unless the record literally cannot be broken again (perfect score or something, note that I'm not really familiar with golf), I don't think it's necessary to include this information in the blurb. -SomeoneNamedDerek (talk) 19:53, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
The only way a "perfect record" could be scored in golf is if somebody would ace all holes, which is of course impossible. The only person ever to come close to that is the former North Korean dictator Kim Jong-il, who in 1991 (or 1994) posted a 38-under-par round of 34. The round included 11 holes-in-one, at least if you believe North Korean media. Humor aside, this was the 145th Open Championships, arguably the world's most prestigious tournament. The record has received much attention in media, and is thus notable. HandsomeFella (talk) 06:59, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
Comment whilst the prose is a little sparse this could have been posted, except that the final round prose is entirely unreferenced. Stephen04:41, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
Comment: I would suggest to change the text to "In golf, Sweden's Henrik Stenson wins..." Thanks and regards, Biwom (talk) 08:52, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
Comment: Stenson is on the front page to embarrass Americans, notably Phil Mickelson, who has the largest number of second place finishes in major tournaments. I'm sure if most other golfers had finished second to Stenson, a mediocre golfer until this tournament, nobody really would have noticed. But the Swedish and other Scandanavian editors want to sitck it to the United States, a very unpopular country to many in that part of the world. DavidSteinle (talk) 10:31, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Baton Rouge shooting
Consensus is against posting this, at least for now. I'm closing the nomination to stop any more off-topic political discussion. If there are major developments or an article is written that would be suitable for ongoing, these can be brought to ITN/C's attention via a new nomination. Thryduulf (talk) 10:58, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Nominator's comments: Second major attack against police officers this month. I personally lean against posting because of the risk of copycat incidents. However I will leave the discussion to the community. 116.216.0.49 (talk) 17:49, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Support Police relations with black people / Black Lives Matter / whatever you want to call it, it's coming to a head in the U.S. Especially with the Dallas shooting having fallen off the ticker, this story is appropriate for posting. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:55, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Support Copycats aren't likely to look to Misplaced Pages for inspiration. And this will likely be a major issue in the upcoming elections. ←Baseball Bugscarrots→ 18:13, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose, unfortunately, we can't post every violent event to ITN. While it is one of the day's leading stories, only three were killed. Especially after the Dallas attacks, this number isn't quite as noteworthy. --AmaryllisGardener18:15, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Though Dallas is obviously very fresh, multiple shootings of police are usually very rare. Aside from the Dallas attack, I believe that it has been several years since the last time at least 3 police officers were killed in a single incident in the US. Dragons flight (talk) 18:37, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Wait If this is connected to the previous shootings/protests from last week, then we should post; on the other hand, if this is just a random crime, then it's a sad domestic crime and not ITN appropriate. I know they have pointed out Baton Rouge was one of the sites where there was protest in response to the shootings, but that only indicated a coincidence, not a consequence. --MASEM (t) 18:23, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose at the moment. People being shot in America, even policemen these days, is commonplace, and if this is supposed to be somehow related to the previous issues, I would seek to find an appropriate "ongoing" news story to post, otherwise this, in isolation, is not newsworthy for the whole of the English-speaking world. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:44, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Well there's clearly a cultural issue going on in the US, so an article should be written, I don't think it's necessarily about angry people (per se) but yes, there's enough evidence now to construct an article reflecting these commonplace events, i.e. police shoot black people, police get shot, police shoot black people, police get shot cycle. The Rambling Man (talk) 19:13, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Wait I do think this is going to end up on ITN especially if this is politically and or racially motivated. But the situation is very fluid and we just don't know enough to say much beyond that a shooting has occurred and three police officer have been killed. We are not a news network and there is no urgent rush to get this up. Let's wait to get enough verifiable details to actually write a decent blurb. -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:49, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
But somehow, innocent people being ruthlessly and recklessly killed by police has seemingly been "normal" in the US for a long time, with little more than some social media +1's and shrugs. So far, anyway, there is nothing in the present article clearly stating that this was an "ambush" or that it was related to the Dallas event or that it was an actual planned attack against cops rather than an exchange of fire between police and criminals as, you know, police are meant to have. Post if/when that becomes clear. LjL (talk) 22:43, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
There were other incidents before and after Dallas. I supported the posting of Dallas because the shooting occurred during a protest. Ambushing the cops is more common than you might think. Abductive (reasoning) 04:35, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Wait per Masem, oppose for now. If this is another revenge and/or somehow related to the Black Lives Matter, then yes, but an isolated incident isn't worth posting, just like killings of police officers in countries like Iraq or Pakistan. Brandmeister19:27, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose per above. This is plain and simple. In the USA, People. Get. Shot. All. The. Time. Because the pro-gun lobby won't institute any sort of sensible laws. This is literally old news.--WaltCip (talk) 20:09, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
It has nothing to do with political motives. It's a fact that these shootings are happening on a constant basis in the USA because the gun control is non-existent. That, regardless of your political beliefs or motives, is utterly and totally indisputable.--WaltCip (talk) 20:40, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Strict gun laws didn't protect the people of Paris (several times) or Nice, did it? Your logic is not quite indisputable. If you wish to continue this, please just email me instead of continuing this here. --AmaryllisGardener22:02, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
What? The weapon of choice in Nice was a truck. What's your point exactly? But, as you say, we shall not continue the discussion on this thread.--WaltCip (talk) 23:24, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose This is America we're talking about. I know that some users are borderline WP:SOAP when they mention this, but you need pretty extraordinary circumstances to post an American shooting. For example, take the Umpqua shooting, when an individual nihilist killed a dozen people. That would be remarkable in Holland, Ireland, Denmark but not in America. If there is discovered to be a terrorist organisation that is behind all of these cop-killings, I would reconsider, but at the moment this is just everyday Americana '''tAD''' (talk) 20:41, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
At least 265 people are killed as a faction within the Turkish Armed Forces launches an attempted coup. An attacker drives a cargo truck into a Bastille Day crowd in Nice, France, killing more than 80 people. Sca (talk) 22:48, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Support. Misconceptions aside, mass killing of police is still rare even in America. Dallas was unfortunately recent, but aside from that event it has been years since as many as three officers have died in a single event in the US. Dragons flight (talk) 21:41, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose Sigh, it's just another shooting in the United States. I also don't agree with the comment immediately above that killing of police officers is "still rare" in the country, as this is the second such incident in a timescale of only ten days.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 21:49, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Two events in ten days, how many in the previous ten years? Happening twice doesn't mean it's not "rare". And again, since when does an event have to be "rare" to be ITN? Where's that in the criteria? – Muboshgu (talk) 22:08, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
We've never posted an item solely based on its "rarity" but on its general significance and potential impact. Having seen that the frequency of these incidents in the country increases and the authorities do absolutely nothing to change anything means that all these events are highly insignificant.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:26, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Your "insignificant" is an extremely offensive statement on its own. And you can't possibly know what the impact of these shootings will be. ←Baseball Bugscarrots→ 22:35, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Letting the access to weapon be one of the freest pleasures that anyone could afford even after all this is repeatedly happening for years doesn't give me any insight that someone is worried about it. Sorry if you find this "extremely offensive" but the reality cannot be healed with grief and sorrow.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:52, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose as the article currently makes no claim (except for vague suggestions) that this may be either related to the Dallas attack, or generally speaking a planned attack or "ambush" against police, as opposed to an ordinary (if particularly bloody) exchange of fire between cops and ordinary criminals. LjL (talk) 22:43, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose Fourth multiple killing of US law enforcement officers this year, third in the last ten days. Two multiple killings last year including a triple homicide, three multiple killings the year before. Martin45100:48, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose - the problem is that ITN is stuffed with high-impact items right now. If one compares this item vs. the Nice attack (with 25 times the death toll), the Turkish coup (80 times the death toll, plus it impacts the entire country's government) and Theresa May becoming UK Prime Minister (effects the entire country, with spillover to EU), this item pales in comparison. These other blurbs aren't that stale either. If this item continues to generate news - all three of the items mentioned above do - then I will change my mind. Banedon (talk) 00:58, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
If it bumps the Euro 2016 final (which is also continuing to generate news items by the way) and replaces it at the bottom, I could support it. Banedon (talk) 01:17, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose blurb - I feel that with the recent state of police - civilian affairs, we could come up with something that cover all of it and list as ongoing, however. - Penwhale | 01:10, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
I oppose posting this(but would be open to Ongoing if there was an article to post) but can we please stop the political comments about gun control or lack thereof which aren't relevant to this discussion? Every state and the federal government have gun rights in their constitutions and it's just the way it is, no one here is going to be able to change that. 331dot (talk) 10:01, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article updated Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.Nominator's comments: Historical context between the rise of social media celebrities and traditional practice of honor killings; the new and the old. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 04:12, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Comment I nominated Baloch's article for an RD listing, but this has been removed and replaced with a blurb nomination. Can editors comment on whether they support an RD or a blurb - it's not clear which would be more appropriate here. She was a notable person (hence her article in WP), but also her death is newsworthy. MurielMary (talk) 05:12, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Support for RD. A notable, sudden death of a controversial celebrity -- but I don't think she meets the requirements for a blurb. The article is in a decent shape. --BorgQueen (talk) 06:47, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Don't nitpick what people say, just for the hell of it, it's not very becoming. David Bowie, Prince, Michael Jackson did not bring down apartheid, but their deaths were covered wall-to-wall on all corners of the globe and certainly I can remember where I was when I heard each news story, despite only having a passing interest in any of the three '''tAD''' (talk) 20:43, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
I don't think you understand what I wrote Bugs, because what you said makes no sense at all. I'd leave it if I were you because it's only you that looks really foolish right now. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:54, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Support RD: Wouldn't be opposed to blurb, but I think RD is more appropriate based on more limited notability than the sort of celebrities whose deaths we tend to feature. That's counterweighed somewhat by the circumstances of her death, but I still lean toward RD on balance. -Kudzu1 (talk) 07:39, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Support blurb The death criteria note that where the cause of death is a major story a blurb may be appropriate. Here the shocking nature of the death is undoubtedly a major part of the story (and can only be explained in a blurb), so I think a blurb is justified. However, I don't object to RD if there isn't the support for a blurb. Neljack (talk) 09:10, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Support blurb but not opposed to RD. Aside from world-transforming figures at the very top of their field, a blurb is for deaths where the death itself is the story, as Neljack states. I support his reasoning. 331dot (talk) 10:09, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Support blurb but not opposed to RD. - Although she is not very well known, I support the above two reasoning. Sherenk1 (talk) 10:33, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Support RD – The only thing making her death blurb-worthy is the nature of it, her accomplishments and general notability do not warrant such in my opinion though. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 10:38, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Comment clearly support sufficient for RD posting, so marking as such. Discussion should now focus on whether or not a blurb is deemed appropriate. The Rambling Man (talk) 11:09, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Support blurb If it was only an ordinary death of a notable personality than I'd say RD only, since the nature of the death is so sensational however, I support blurb. Vegemighty2 (talk) 16:49, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Support either way I thought about nominating this yesterday but didn't. Not sure if it's better as a blurb or RD. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:41, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
RD onlyChristina Grimmie was an Internet celebrity killed in a senseless way too common in America. This woman was an Internet celebrity killed in a senseless way too common in Pakistan. '''tAD''' (talk) 21:02, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Erdoğan declares that the coup is over with over 1,500 members of the Turkish military in detention. (CNN)(AP)
General Ümit Dündar reports at least 194 people were killed: two soldiers, 41 police officers, 47 civilians, and 104 alleged coup plotters. An official later adds that 1,440 people have been reported wounded. (NBC News)
Secretary of StateJohn Kerry says the United States would consider an extradition request for the cleric blamed for the attempted coup. Fethullah Gülen left Turkey in 1999 and now lives in Pennsylvania. Gülen denies any involvement. Kerry adds no request has been received. (NBC News)(AP)
Comment This has been going on for the last 10 days, looking at the article. Posting with an arbitrary death toll would not make much sense to me. Perhaps Ongoing is a better idea here. --Tone13:17, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose/pull There has been unrest in Kashmir for about 70 years – see Kashmir conflict. The current unrest is an uptick but I'm not content with the quality of the article that we're linking to. I read a bunch of stuff about pellet guns there which didn't make sense because of the links suggesting that air rifles or pistols were being used. I check elsewhere and find that the authorities are using shotguns, which makes more sense. I don't think we should have this until it's clearer what we're trying to report and then we should do it with a regular blurb. Andrew D. (talk) 15:52, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Recent deaths of any person, animal or organism with a Misplaced Pages article are always presumed to be important enough to post (see this RFC and further discussion). Comments should focus on whether the quality of the article meets WP:ITNRD.Nominator's comments: One of the greatest NBA players of all time, particularly notable for rebounding. EternalNomad (talk) 18:06, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
Support when improved Importance in his field, but article needs citations and image layout improvements. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:09, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose I read in the intro that he was one of "the greatest rebounders and shot blockers ever" but the article quality is appalling, and really doesn't help this claim. It needs serious work. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:35, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose One of "the greatest rebounders and shot blockers ever" does not necessarily imply one of "the greatest NBA players of all time", and the career highlights and awards section is very poor to justify that claim. For example, he has never been on the championship team and has also never won any individual award such as the league's most valuable player.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 23:27, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose Artice doesn't really explain how he meets RD criteria, and whole sections are unsourced. Would need a massive amount of work to appear on the main page. Laura Jamieson (talk)23:31, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose as there is nothing really notable about the death and while the person is notable he looks like a far cry from ITN level. Just look at what we have in the section these days for an easy comparison. LjL (talk) 00:02, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
@91.52.232.167: as long as Baseball Bugs is not currently evading a block (they are not), topic banned from ITN and/or the subject of the nomination (I'm not aware they are) or interaction banned with the nominator or other significant contributor to the discussion (again, I'm not aware they are) then their having been blocked previously is not at all relevant. Thryduulf (talk) 14:46, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
Support pending improvement, and I don't see this as a hopeless cause. His statistical accomplishments are impressive, and easy to verify. He ranks fifth all-time in rebounds per game, he was the first guy to get a quadruple-double, and the NBA named him one of their 50 Greatest Players of all time: . He played before the internet era, so his article has never received a massive amount of attention, but he had a very respectable career. I can't promise I can do much work on the article myself, but I figured I should chime in so that this discussion doesn't get closed prematurely. Zagalejo^^^00:40, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose. I like (and play) basketball and watch a fair bit of NBA, but I can't agree with posting Thurmond. I think if we do we're effectively willing post anyone in the HOF, which I don't agree with. Jenks24 (talk) 15:03, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
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Authorities identify the attacker as a 31-year-old Tunisian resident in France, who was killed during the exchange of gunfire with police. The man was known to police in connection with petty crime, but was not on the French intelligence service watch list. (Reuters)(BBC)
The death toll from the coup is reported to be at least 42 in Ankara and 60 across Turkey. 130 soldiers have been taken into custody and one Turkish Army general has been killed. (Reuters via Trust), (NBC News)
Nominator's comments: No article yet (and its prudish here to make one) but this is earth-shaking even if it fails. (on live tv so no sources yet) the region is run amuck! Lihaas (talk) 20:35, 15 July 2016 (UTC)!
Support - The coup will most likely fail, but this was expected for quite some time. Gunfire was heard in Ankara, bridges across Bosphorus in Istanbul were shut down, and low flying jets were witnessed in both major cities. Very notable regardless of whether it succeeds or not. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 20:40, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Posted, with the knowledge that we will have to update the blurb as news unfolds (thankfully this is Misplaced Pages, so we can do that ;-) ). Will be news whether or not the coup fails. Ed20:42, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Dude. One "wait" and one "support" and once again you're too quick to post. The "discussion" lasted for seven minutes before you posted. Pull. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:43, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
This is in the news, which doesn't exactly wait for us. People will be coming wanting this news, and it's abundantly clear that this will be posted whether or not the coup fails (see Lihaas and Fitzacarmalan). Ed20:45, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
(edit conflict) But the article isn't ready. There are bare url's and a statement by the military that they've taken over, but no confirmation of that. I'm not arguing that this is newsworthy and should be posted, but that it should be posted only in due course, which this was not. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:47, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Comment. What has happened to Misplaced Pages? Why do we need to outrun the news media? For god's sake, this is an encyclopedia, folks! We could've easily waited a day or two to post this event, rather than posting the dubious "news fog" that this article is right now. ITN needs some soul searching. --bender235 (talk) 22:19, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
No, I'm not. This is Misplaced Pages. We are not CNN or The New York Times. We do not have to carry "Breaking News" as it happens. This is nonsense. The coup article, as of right now, basically says we don't know anything. Why does this have to be on the Main Page? --bender235 (talk) 22:32, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
We are not CNN, but we have an ITN section. So to claim that Misplaced Pages is not news is incorrect. And this is not some random story, it is a coup of major proportions. Get some perspective.BabbaQ (talk) 22:36, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Like it or not the WP is a bit more than an encyclopedia nowadays. In crisis situations it has also become a source people turn to for info. w.carter-Talk22:45, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
No, they do not. Misplaced Pages does not have news, by definition we only reflect what actual news outlets report. Turning to Misplaced Pages to get the "latest news" would be stupid. --bender235 (talk) 23:16, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Well, if you take a look at the page views statistics you'll see a tremendous spike in views for any article that appears in the ITN section. These spikes usually surpasses views of any other section on the main page. This would not be the case if people weren't interested in the ITN articles. w.carter-Talk01:21, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
Pulled we don't post stubs, we don't post without consensus, we don't post without bold target articles, we don't do this kind of thing, time and time and time and time again. STOP it. If you don't understand how ITN works, don't pretend to admin it. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:46, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
It certainly appears that way. But as we're not the journalists, we need to be more cautious on when we post things. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:53, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
(edit conflict)It was pulled, correctly (not by me), and Ed posted it again. Not good. Even setting aside that T:ITN is not "things in the news" but "Misplaced Pages articles of reasonable quality about things in the news", you don't edit war on the main page. The ed17, please revert yourself and show a modicum of patience. —Cryptic20:49, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
ITN criterion: There is a sufficiently updated non-stub articleThe ed17 please stop pissing around here, this isn't nearly funny. You don't know what you're doing. This isn't a ticker. Perhaps you aren't aware. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:50, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Quit the condescension will you? "Maybe you don't know how Misplaced Pages works; it's not your playground". You're not a teacher or a parent. Be civil.--Sunshineisles2 (talk) 20:54, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
(edit conflict) @TRM, please calm down. I know exactly what I'm doing. We're certainly not a ticker, but there's no reason to wait for waiting's sake—although I appear to have read the tea leaves incorrectly here. Ed20:56, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
You don't need to carry on here on ITN. The 97th time you say his judgement is flawed on the discussion page isn't going to change anything the first 96 times didn't.--Sunshineisles2 (talk) 21:01, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Note: the article is no longer a stub. Surprisingly, as we talk here, people are adding to the article. @TRM: I can take any attacks you'd like to throw at me, especially the ageist-sounding condescension, but it's a bit overwrought. We disagree on how to interpret the ITN criteria, but I'm certainly not going to insult you over it. Ed20:58, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Just read the other comments, this is a mistake, and not the first one. Ageist? WTF? I couldn't care less how old or young you are, just stop believing you can ignore the ITN procedures. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:03, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
A scientific paper could be writen on psicology about the correlation between subjective relevance of the piece of News and the level of strictness with which criteria for ITN are aplied before consensus anyway. Cato censor (talk) 21:01, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Pull and keep pulled. The admin repeatedly posting it should relent in the face of consensus against posting. I would like this posted ASAP but ASAP means as soon as possible, not sooner than possible, when there isn't even a blurb ready. Misplaced Pages is not a news agency. LjL (talk) 20:53, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Wait an hour or so, too early to post. I am pretty sure even the parts of the Turkish military won't know that there is a coup in there own country. 70.51.84.138 (talk) 20:57, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Wait, Misplaced Pages is not a news site, we don't need to be the first to report on it. We need to make sure the details clear up a bit about the situation before we post it, like for example, who comes out as the leader of Turkey. --AmaryllisGardener20:58, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
(Stop edit conflicting me!) Ed's Pokémon Go posting reflected good judgment in IAR. His posting of this without a consensus is unfortunately a blunder. Reposting it again is extraordinarily ill-advised and risks desysopping. WaltCip (talk) 21:01, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, I had the same edit-conflict problem. :-) I've already reverted myself on T:ITN and have obviously realized that this was a slight step too far. Ed21:07, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
(edit conflict)Wait until it's clear what is happening. Something is, and that something should be posted, but not before we know enough about it to say what something it is. @The ed17: If you do not want to agree, now, to a voluntary topic ban from editing the ITN template I will be formally proposing one at WP:AN. Thryduulf (talk) 21:03, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
That is such an incredible step so far beyond what just happened here that I don't know how to reply. I'd love to see your rationale other than reverting TRM once (... but then reverting myself minutes later, when I realized my mistake). Also please note that I will be offline for most of tonight (US time), so I'm not going to be able to reply to much. Ed21:08, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
If you failed to notice the dismay at all but a couple of your recent posting decisions, perhaps you should re-visit some of the things you do here to get some realistic feedback. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:15, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Give me concrete examples. I'm just reading your comments on the RD I posted; Pokemon Go was fine (unless you're seriously going to count " Remove "Pokémon Go" from ongoing?" ), attack in Nice was fine, Euro 2016 was fine once I added a prose summary, Sydney Schanberg was fine, I admittedly missed the "RD" part of Abdul Sattar Edhi (but that was an easy fix), China floods was fine. Ed21:22, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
This one, Hadžić, Wimbledon, Euro 2016, Abdul Sattar Edhi, all errors in posting. Just stop it. It appears that you have attracted enough attention to ask you to step back for a bit to avoid being made to remove yourself. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:27, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Ah, Wimbledon, my apologies for missing that—it wasn't intentional. I'd argue that that had enough support at the time I posted it, but of course that could be debated. I improved Euro 2016 myself, so I'm not going to count that as an error. Note that I'm going to be forced to step back for the evening for a long-planned dinner with several family members, but let's discuss more this weekend (perhaps not in this thread to avoid derailing further?). And thank you for toning down the rhetoric—this is a much easier discussion to handle. Ed21:31, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
No further discussion required. Please let others handle the promotions for the time being until you get to grips with consensus, quality, and the other ITN guidelines. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:35, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Let's talk more. I'm headed offline or I won't make dinner in time (it's a lengthy drive), but if you want to preemptively start a discussion on my talk page, please do. Best, Ed21:40, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Not needed, there's more of a consensus for you to stop posting than there was to post this item to the main page when you did it. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:41, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
(edit conflict)It's not an "incredible step" at all. Editing a protected page, let alone one that's part of the main page, is an administrative action; what you did was wheel warring. I don't follow ITN/C closely enough to have an opinion whether a topic ban is necessary, but you definitely should be taking this more seriously than you seem to be. —Cryptic21:33, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Clearly it was a rash action done without enough forethought, and I've already admitted it was a mistake, but it wasn't done in malice and I reverted myself (and you have my thanks for giving me the opportunity to do that). I'm taking this very seriously, in case that wasn't clear, but I don't think my actions here—which are not part of recurring pattern, mind you (that is, wheel warring anywhere, much less on that main page)—rise to the level of requiring a topic ban, sanctions, an AN discussion, or an arb case. Ed21:38, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
To quote Misplaced Pages:Competence is required: "A mess created in a sincere effort to help is still a mess. Clearly, every editor is incompetent when doing some types of edits in certain subject areas, so it is important to know or discover your limitations." This applies to all Wikipedians, including administrators. There are certain Misplaced Pages tasks that I usually avoid performing – not due to lack of interest, but because I struggle to complete them efficiently and without screwing up. I'm sure that you harbor no malicious intent, but you seem to commit serious errors (sometimes several simultaneously and/or in rapid succession) almost every time you edit ITN – even when the posting itself is reasonable. Perhaps this is correctable, but the main page isn't a sandbox in which to practice. The above "disagree on how to interpret the ITN criteria" illustrates a fundamental lack of understanding on your part. Seriously, Ed, this wasn't even borderline. The posting was wildly premature. Your belief to the contrary leads me to question your judgement only marginally less than if you'd purposely ignored ITN's rules because you felt like it. I want to stress that this isn't intended as belittlement. As noted above, there are areas in which I probably would perform similarly poorly if I were to dive in like you've done at ITN. The key difference is that I don't dive in. I leave such tasks to those who know what they're doing. I implore you to act in kind. You owe it to the community that entrusted you with the admin bit. —David Levy03:29, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
Agree on pull - I agree that it was best to pull this and agree that The ed17 should always wait for consensus except when an item is ITN/R, and should not revert another admin without clear reason. Please just take some time and learn the general rules of ITN. Andise1 (talk) 21:07, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Wait For further info. I think regardless of what is actually going on, it's likely to warrant posting at ITN, but we need to know what it is first. Once the article is above a stub then I agree with a Support.Miyagawa (talk) 21:09, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Now support Article is up to 2500 characters, seems to be a stable yet developing verrsion, IPs are prohibited from editing, I think it's ready now. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:16, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Wait 30-45 minutes purely so that we have a good idea of how to blurb this appropriately and to eliminate any doubt about whether the article is developed enough. Obvious support on importance regardless of outcome. I suspect within the hour we will have a clear enough idea of what is going on to provide an appropriate blurb - that would be the appropriate time to post. No concerns at all on quality, articles on events of this magnitude always seem to evolve well, and it's growing by the minute. Probably long enough already.
Comment There is no harm in waiting for a while. As I type this, it is currently ~21:20 UTC. There is no loss in waiting an hour or two until say 23:00 utc or even an hour later. Doing so allows time for the situation to develop, and the article to develop too. Mjroots (talk) 21:22, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Support - apparent coup going on. if it succeeds or fails is irrelevant to its notability. should be posted.BabbaQ (talk) 21:47, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Question have we ever posted an "is underway" blurb at ITN or is this precisely what "Ongoing" is about? We need an appropriate blurb or else I suggest Ongoing is exactly where it belongs... The Rambling Man (talk) 21:52, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Support posting this historic event now. Though a coup may always fail, it seems clear now that it is a coup and not a mere attempt – though it would be newsworthy either way. The article has substantially improved and expanded, gives some background, is largely sourced, and is further developing. --PanchoS (talk) 21:55, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Support A clearly major event of international significance. The article is in decent shape given this is a breaking news event and is far beyond stub status. On a side note, if we don't get a break we are going to have to annex the "On this Day" space to keep pace with all the breaking news. -Ad Orientem (talk) 21:55, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
No, we just drop the last one off the ITN section, or move stuff to Ongoing, if indeed it's ongoing. E.g. the Nice attack is over now, it can drop off today if four more news items are posted. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:59, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
It's worth keeping open due to the likely level of fluidity of the blurb. I don't think WP:ERRORS is the best place for those inevitable discussions to take place. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 23:03, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Ironically, the reason this section is anywhere near as long as it is was due to admin error, which would lend support to keeping the blurb discussion here where people are most likely to find it. Point taken though - perhaps if those parts relating to the early post were collapsed, the length would be more acceptable. StillWaitingForConnection (talk) 23:36, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
It was pretty obvious why the closure was reverted as the posted blurb was completely unsuitable and needed further discussion on how best to fix it. Thankfully it was wholesale adjusted. However even now it appears out of date. Another good reason that rushing to post this kind of thing is the wrong thing to do. The Rambling Man (talk) 05:37, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
Support This is clearly major news but, as the event is still fresh and unclear, there needs to be a place to discuss the blurb, which may require further adjustment. This should be that place and so this discussion should be left open while the dust settles. Andrew D. (talk) 07:58, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Article:Pokémon Go (talk·history·tag) Ongoing item removal (Post)Nominator's comments: This was added to ongoing for seven hours. I see updates in prose format on releases, statistics, and online development. However, I am unsure whether those updates justify the featuring of the article in the Main Page. The July 14 news is about requesting newer gyms for Pokémon that players possess. Other ones on the same day are about raising a share price and a UK release. Other news on July 13 are just downloads statistics and German release. While this looks ongoing, I am not confident that this would interest a lot of readers, especially with so many Pokémon video games. Furthermore, an idea of presenting a video or mobile game as ongoing doesn't cross my mind. George Ho (talk) 07:40, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose the nomination rationale is deeply flawed. This has already been demonstrated as being in the news globally, with stories and features being added in an ongoing manner. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:45, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Quite, the proposer claims I am not confident that this would interest a lot of readers..., um, nope. P.S. The link is here, clearly showing more than 4 million hits in the last 8 days.... The Rambling Man (talk) 07:50, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose What Cyclonebiskit says. IMO the ongoing thing is not so much about the game itself, which is fairly basic, but the social impact it has and the groundbreking new tech behind it. w.carter-Talk07:56, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose - if there's any reason to take this off Ongoing, it's because it's not something that typically shows up as "ongoing" (how can a Pokemon Go be ongoing? "Pokemon Go craze" or "Aftermath of Pokemon Go launch" maybe, but "Pokemon Go"?). However, there's nowhere else to put it. It's hard to come up with a suitable blurb after all (see nomination). If it doesn't come under ongoing, where can it go? Banedon (talk) 08:14, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
Oppose. The nomination shows a clear lack of understanding about what Ongoing is for, and no understanding at all about why this particular story was added in particular. I very nearly snow closed this, and if I am edit conflicted saving this comment I will, as it's clear that it's not going to happen. However as it's only been open 2 hours, I'm giving it one last chance. Thryduulf (talk) 09:54, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
References
Nominators often include links to external websites and other references in discussions on this page. It is usually best to provide such links using the inline URL syntax rather than using <ref></ref> tags, because that keeps all the relevant information in the same place as the nomination without having to jump to this section, and facilitates the archiving process.
For the times when <ref></ref> tags are being used, here are their contents:
In the news toolbox.jpg)
Joseph Aoun
