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Biography NA‑class

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Laloo or Lalu

The title of the article is flawed.His name is most widely spelt as Laloo not Lalu.The Headline should be reverted to Laloo prasad Yadav.It is Laloo also spelt lalu and not vice versa.210.211.160.220 15:51, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Please see . "Everybody knows that in his home state Bihar. It is the media which distorted the spelling, sometimes with deliberate mischief". utcursch | talk 03:34, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Everybody knows it is Laloo also spelt Lalu---One person claiming it to be wrong is not acceptable.I have objection against the sentence wrongly spelt Laloo.This is encyclopedia and both spells are acceptable.Please don't use this article as a propaganda page-whether You love Lalu or hate Laloo.Besides that tone of the article is still not set,I am not satisfied with the version in later half.I have put up a template to set the right tone and voice of the article.Mumbai Mirror has got more publicity than it deserves,to pronounce its view even the figure of financial turnaround has been mischieviously removed.Editor has failed to meet my expectations.Sorry I had to say that.Holywarrior 13:59, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

citation and facts

Hi respectable editors ,Plz kindly discuss what should be the layout of the page.every sentence seems to be controversial on this page and a citation is attached.I think reading the citation after going to reference column is not suitable for this page because i see in it attempt to mask the citation and excuse to interpret in one's own POV,which is both unwanted andCriminaltoo.Besides an encyclopedia article need not be bundle of newpaper clippings(unfortunately some editors want it to be).Please insert only relevant references which are useful in reflecting the true personality of the person you are writing on.Holywarrior 12:45, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

NPOV

Lalu has been winning elections in Bihar by luring so-called "lower-caste" people, the Yadavs and the Muslims.The person who has written this should find a better place to air his views on why he is winning elections.This is not a place for research on someone or speculate on reasons behind someone's achievents.I have debated the matter of high or low on many pages and could not find who are these high peole.Would you assist me.I find many unnecessary comments on this article too.Holywarrior 11:03, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

The section about corruption needs serious unbiased information like a list of corruption cases etc. rather than sweeping comments like "most corrupt politician" etc. And is he really a convicted murderer? There also needs to be a section about his accomplishments (no religious riots, social justice etc.)

Actually, this is what article looks like after I removed a lot of POV. Love him or hate him, you have to accept that he is regarded as the most corrupt politician in India. I am not so sure about the 'convicted murderer'. And hey! what are you talking about, when you say 'no religious riots' or 'social justice'. There are caste-related crimes and riots. And I am sure, the social justice situtation in Bihar has gone from bad to worse during his stay in power. Sorry, I had to say it. utcursch 05:56, Jan 3, 2005 (UTC)

You said "regarded as". Fine, he probably is. cite sources, list cases etc. rather than making blanket assertions that are hard to test in an objective manner. You cannot deny that he has a definite appeal among minorities and certain lower castes and that needs to be explained as well

This is wiki, my friend. If you want to add something, help yourself! If your edit adheres to the Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view, nobody will revert it. utcursch 12:48, Jan 11, 2005 (UTC)

I think it is a sin that people like him are in power.He has no scruples,is a master manipulator of media and has no qualms using nepotistic methods.I suppose you could say that for the entire Indian political community,Sonia Gandhi included for her support of Laloo but this man has taken the art to extremes.

---

Removed NPOV. Charges has been filed against Sri Laloo now.

Detailing Fodder Scam is a separate major task in itself. Persons complaining about "explaining" the Fodder Scam, should be either patient or create the article themselves.

Lalu is a shame of india !! Given the political scenario in India, Lalu will not be convicted soon or in near future. But from numerous media reports in various forms, it is now an open secret that Lalu is responsible for murders, scandals involving millions of dollars, for misery of millions of poorest of poor Indians and a threat to Indian democracy.

---

Much of the section relating to his term as Railway Minister is not NPOV. It sounds more like a newspaper report or a propoganda document than an Encyclopedia article. I think the language needs to be cleaned up substantially so that it can conform to Misplaced Pages standards. I am putting a Clean Up notice. I am reluctant to put an NPOV notice because though the facts are covered, they are presented in a slanted fashion. Perhaps a more experienced Wikipedian should take a call on that. --Gautambas 18:44, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

---

"Since then Lalu has never looked back and every exploit of lalu has been looked upon with awe. It is said each and every opponents of Lalu were measured in their bid to oppose him but he always stood taller than them."

Please conform to Misplaced Pages's NPOV policy. These lines in the section about his political career seem a tad biased. I am inclined to delete them but the author has cleverly started the second line with "It is said...". Discuss?

Also, I feel that it wouldn't hurt to use grammatically correct sentences - "each and every opponents "? Please make an effort to keep standards high.

To Anon.--Thanks for feedback,but that is the best way to describe lalu.It is in perfect accordance with neutrality.Are these not facts.Be brave to sign your comments.Holywarrior 13:07, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Copyvio inside article

Copied as it is (except for the word alleged) from BBC Profile: Laloo Prasad Yadav

His problems however began in 1996 when the police unearthed 
a big corruption scandal in which he and the state's leading 
bureaucrats and politicians were involved.

Removed. utcursch | talk 11:59, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

One or two lines from an article outside, do not consitute violation of copyrights, do they? --Andy123 21:16, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

BBC profile does not mention the name of writer,it is flawed and is not reliable.Holywarrior 14:03, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Spelling of Name in Devanagari

It is लालू but shouldn't it be ललू , or am I hearing it misprounced?

Google isn't helping me either way, (all references to the former are for pages that are links off of wikipedia, and there are no references to the former), possibly because the Hindi papers aren't implementing Unicode or implementing it badly.

Arun 07:58, 14 September 2005 (UTC) English spell is not to be used as key to pronounce it.How d Ya pronounce BOje or Schwitzer.Contribute for better things.Holywarrior 12:48, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Picture is copyrighted

If you check the licensing of the image, it says that the image should be removed if it has been created after the year 1945, which it definately has been (something, which I am guessing after looking at the white hair on the top of laloo's head). I propose that the picture be deleted and a substitute be found for it. --Andy123 21:19, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Too many missing / unreliable citations

This article has several missing citations (I counted at least 10). I have added a missing citations template message at the top of the article.

Also this heading on the talk page is bugging me...

"The article doesn't mention his greatest feat as railway minister bringing railways the profit of Rs11000 crores."

-- Please provide a reliable citation if you are going to make these claims.

I have put this in article with reference.Infact it has become a case study now and IIM ahmedabad is closely watching how laloo managed this turnaround.I hope someone will put this study in article .Holywarrior 14:20, 12 May 2006 (UTC) The article doesn't mention his greatest feat as railway minister bringing railways the profit of Rs11000 crores.It is surely an account written by biased people.

I have included it now.Holywarrior 07:41, 14 May 2006 (UTC) to the man who has written police unearthed a major corruption scandal (Animal Husbandry Scam/Fodder scam, Rs 950 crore (US$ 267 Million)) in Bihar (going back into the previous Congress government) which allegedly involved him and the state's leading bureaucrats and politicians.

 he should beter know the probe itself was ordered by laloo yadav.it just exposes the dirty intentions with which many edits has been done on this page

Don't worry many have been puled out and won't be allowed to grow again.

This article contains many BHURABAL(Bhumihar Rajput Babaji lala )(meaning the unwanted brown hairs which need to be pulled out).I would suggest to pull them out which will better reflect the unmatched pwersonality of a person who is undoubtedly the greatest politician India has ever seen.

I would strongly suggest you to start an article on Bhurabal,I agree with you the effect is apparent on this page.Holywarrior 10:47, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

From the looks of it, this article seems to have portions of bias in it (an example is the reference to his rule being referred to as Goonda Raj (Rule of thugs)). Also, there are quite a few typos. I'm kind of new at this, is it acceptable to clean up article if I think there's bias or do I need someone to back me up before I touch it?

-hitesh.

Vandals on the page

There seem to be many vandals on this page I have noticed one called utcursch Please kindly notify others and discuss their move.this person seems to be hell bent to destroy the article.He quotes ridiculous sources to back his viewpoint.Unfit for editing this pageHolywarrior 07:32, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi! I am a very respectable user, and not a vandal. I have been editing Misplaced Pages since 2003 and I was elected an administrator unopposed. Please see Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks. I've written most of this article, including the section which praises Lalu. I am neither a Lalu-fan nor a Lalu-hater. This is an encyclopedic article and needs to have all viewpoints (see Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view). I think you are being too judgemental about me. May I ask you why did you remove the date of birth and the reason behind why he is called Lalu and not Laloo? You also removed the citations (using the ref tags and the cite web template) calling it "vandalism". Please see Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style. Mumbai Mirror is not a "ridiculous" source. It is published by The Times Group, the media house which owns India's largest selling English newspaper, The Times of India. It's demand has outplaced its supply . utcursch | talk 09:56, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Also, your fork Lalu:Railway Minister has been reverted by User:RHaworth. It's not a general practice at Misplaced Pages to create a new article for a portfolio held by a minister. I've included the content back to this article. Also I've changed the language so that it doesn't hurt Lalu's supporters. If you don't agree with me or User:RHaworth, please see Misplaced Pages:Resolving disputes. I am a friendly editor and would like to solve all disputes in a friendly manner. utcursch | talk 10:19, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Dear Utcursch Thanks for talking.Infact I like people who talk rather than who silently edit.You may boast of being friendly and neutral but ur citations are really ridiculous and your attitudes .It reflects only one thing you are having deep rooted hatred for the person you are writing on.I don't think character assasination is one of the policies of wikipedia,but you are here with single mind determination to do an anti laloo prapaganda.The BBC profile you are citing is flawed in many ways besides it is not even signed.Mumbai mirror is a tabloid newspaper carving for sensational stories.I thought his railway minister profile should go into another article for it is itself a big issue and it may become barrier in developing other sections.The user reverting it didn't cite reasons and this is unfortunate.Regarding your name controversy-there is no controversy at all it is all cooked up by people like you.His official name spell is LALU and media spell Laloo.How come it become controversial.People write many things about this man you need to be judicious in choosing your citations.your contributions lack direction.

Holywarrior 12:07, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

To Holywarrior - when you leave a comment on any talk page, please provide wikilinks to enable the user to look at what you are talking about without having to take a circuitous route. Your comment seem to be many vandals above is disingenuous. A comment on your user page I make people to edit my way is also rather indicative. Please make yourself to edit in the way of the consensus. I repeat - we need one article only about this Lalu guy. But I will leave it to you and utcursh to fight it out. -- RHaworth 12:43, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

To RHaworth-thanks for your input.I had invited you to comment on whether separate article is required or not but you seem to have made your opinion about me before giving it due consideration.I am afraid this article will run into an unusually long essay which at some point of time will be split into many different articles.If you think otherwise then just wait,the time will tell.I would ask you to be frankly admit if you are viewing this article in progress.If you are aware of how it has come out in the present shape you too will not deny it has been vandalised by none other except the person I am booking.Regarding the comment on my user page,it is nothing but an honest declaration,and yes it is the most effective way of consensus building.It is not disingenuous.The remark I have put for some users is far more gentle than what they really deserve and what kind of remarks/POV they had and are trying to insert in the article.Many POV/Remarks used in the article were/are in true sense of wiki disingenuous which you are trying to turn on me.The most unfortunate fact about wikipedia is that despite all the rules,regulations and moderation,it has become tool of character assasination .I am just trying to help this cause.Lastly a piece of advice to you try to focus more on article(the way it should be)rather than persons editing it.I invite all the noble people on earth who have guts to fight for good cause to raise their voice against character assasination sponsered by wikipedia on internet with pretention of consensus building.Holywarrior 15:11, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Hello again, Holywarrior! Before you accuse me of being anti-Lalu, have a look at these links: , , , -- it was me who removed all the POV from this article before you were here. Most of the Pro-Lalu stuff was also added by me (yeah, I added the entire "Lalu's praise" section). Like, I said, you are being too judgmental. I am just here to create a complete article with both the view points. Not a single edit of mine says that Lalu is good or that Lalu is bad -- I've just added the facts. As about the Lalu-Laloo thing (OK, I accept it's not a controversy), the article was earlier located at Laloo Prasad Yadav, and when I read in newspaper that Lalooji has insisted that his name is "Lalu", I moved the article to Lalu Prasad Yadav (Please see ). He has been called "Laloo" in earlier publications (before 2004), so now people should know why he was called Laloo before 2004. Now, may I ask you why you removed this citation? Are you doing it just because you have made up your mind that "Utcursch is bad and out to destroy this article"? My friend, inspite of my truce offer, you seem to be in fighting mode? Why? I hope my above clarifications will help you to change your mindset. Be a friend, and let us edit the article together, peacefully. utcursch | talk 04:03, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

This person called rhaworth who has nothing to do with the article is clearly lobbying for utcursch whose contributions are idiotic.Wmnnzzr 16:23, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

No personal attacks please. Also see Misplaced Pages:Sock puppetry. utcursch | talk 04:03, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanx for clarifications,infact it was useful to know you better.you appear to be a nice person.When I first looked at the article it was full of conflicting comments on the talk page itself and few edits I found were not tolerable at all.It seems you yourself had been fighting vandalism on this page.But your means I think are not appropriate for fighting vandals.If you try to build consensus with such kind of people you will find they are only getting encouraged to do more.The only surefire way of fighting them is use of what I call vandal repellent-answer them in same coin-and yu will find them turning humble against you.Another useful advice which you will find handy in fighting these people is plant a suitable repellent in the article itself.Most vandals don't sign their comments and will soon turn their back.For this you should have proper knowledge of the subject.Hope it will help you in your mission.I admit my allegations against you were result of shortsightedness.May god help you in your good work.Holywarrior 12:05, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

A strange problem

Following section,though is present in source is not reflected in the article.Please get the problem fixed.

Holy -- + -- Warrior 12:25, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Fixed. utcursch | talk 06:49, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks.Holy | Warrior 10:01, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Lalu as Chief Minister of Bihar

Article misses out one important section,his tenure as Chief Minister of Bihar.Contributions are invited for this section.Holy | Warrior 12:27, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Longest serving political party president

I am surprised to see Lalu (having led his party since 1997) holding the record. There're many more people who would qualify, IMO. One example is M. Karunanidhi who's the president of the DMK since 1969! -- Sundar 12:33, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Report it to Limca Books.Holy|Warrior 12:57, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Holywarrior, I've added a reference to his biography on the official party website. I don't know how to report to Limca book of records. -- Sundar 13:26, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

The problem is that many people don't differentiate between party president and party supremo.In many cases whereas one may not be party president,he may have been referred to as such because of his political weight.Might be the case with DMK supremo.Anyway I am adding according to Limca Books similar quote should be in other articles too.Holy|Warrior 13:58, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Citecheck template changed

The citecheck template is for articles that misuse citations, such as listing quotes out of context. Per this talk page I am replacing that template with a "citations needed" template. Durova 02:39, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

You are wrong here infact this article was the textbook case of how citations are misused to push one's POV.Although much of them has been improved ; it still needs clean up.I am changing it again.HW 13:19, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Please detail how the citations are misused. Do cited passages make claims that the sources don't support? All I saw here were assertions that the article is undersourced and POV, not any specific complaint that the current citations are technically wrong. You have my apologies if I overlooked something. Durova 23:27, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I've seen no response to this query for two days. It appears that the dispute concerns overall article citation and POV rather than the technical aspects of existing footnotes. Have changed the template to "citations missing." Durova 19:18, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Infact I agree with you now tag is no more relevant.only few citations are missing so I am removing that tag too. HW  09:46, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Laluji and Holywarrior

While I respect the fact that Holywarrior clearly has a great deal of admiration for a significant political figure like Laluji (to some extent, I admire him too), don't you think that his recent edits are a bit hagiographic? For instance, some of his actions "as railway minister" don't pertain to the railway at all (in the edit as of now). Plus, Laluji is such a significant political figure who has done so many things (good and questionable) that chronicling all of his activities will make the article needlessly large. Won't it be better to selectively edit the article to make it representative of Laluji's career? What do you think?Hkelkar 20:08, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
First of all Holywarrior does not have any great deal of admiration for Laluji,than any other person's biography he edits,whether you admire him or not is clearly your problem and needless to discuss here.My recent edits and all my edits are well referenced.Yes many of his actions (laluji's)does not pertain to the railway but it exists because he had said so --As a Railway Minister.Why he said so--- sort out with laluji,if you wish to.Thanx. HW  09:05, 7 September 2006 (UTC) The heading you have put here and at many places is violation of WP:AGF,WP:NPAand WP:Civility.Take care. HW  09:08, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

There was no violation of civility as I did not accuse you of anything, nor did I make any personal attacks regarding you. I assumed good faith in the sense that I assumed your motives were in expanding some parts of the article properly. I still continue to assume good faith on your part. I contend that the article is biased so shall restore the NPOV tag. I particularly see that these accusations of institutional bias against him are weakly substantiated by the cited refs and the edits are full of WP:OR violations. Plus, the railway minister is a hagiograph. Are we to chronicle every single thing that Laluji has ever done? The right thing to do is to present a balanced representation of his actions, and the present section is unbalanced. Also, some of the claims are exaggerated as of now.Hkelkar 16:15, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Don't agree with you and would recommend a tutorial for you to properly understand Wp policies. HW  16:22, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Please reconsider discussing the matter rationally. I believe that, if you choose to dismiss the discussion process then the next step is mediation cabal or rfc.Hkelkar 16:26, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Proceed  HW  16:28, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Plz see WP:TROLL and refrain from earlier activities. HW  16:40, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

POV tag

Should be left there as there is a dispute and not consensus. If it is one against 10, then delete tag, but not now. Blnguyen | BLabberiNg 22:49, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

You should have commented on trolling part too.Besides highly incivil actions of user:Hkelkar. HW  08:44, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

See the primary contributors on this article.This guy hkelkar has not got a single edit against him.He is out here following me and to undo all the good work of so many editors.Regarding bias plz see Media bias article itself it can be either real or percieved.For that matter bias is mostly percieved but you must show proofs of perception which article does have. HW  09:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

The tool is beta, Hkelkar dont worry. On an article Jagrup Brar I created, the article said there were 0 edits by registered users, when I clearly made 6 major edits to the page.Bakaman _Bakatalk 00:55, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

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