Talk:Republic of China (1912–1949): Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 16:59, 17 December 2016 editCWH (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users33,730 edits →Merger Discussion ← Previous edit		Revision as of 05:05, 20 December 2016 edit undoMoxy (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Page movers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers, Template editors129,530 edits →Merger Discussion: closeNext edit →
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	==Merger Discussion==		==Merger Discussion==
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			::;Outcome is clear .-- ] (]) 05:05, 20 December 2016 (UTC)
	] articles: ] into ]; dated: December 2016. Proposer's Rationale: ROC controlled the Mainland until 1949 and this article needs to be merged with Taiwan. Discuss here. ] (]) 04:53, 11 December 2016 (UTC)		] articles: ] into ]; dated: December 2016. Proposer's Rationale: ROC controlled the Mainland until 1949 and this article needs to be merged with Taiwan. Discuss here. ] (]) 04:53, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
	:'''Oppose''' This article is about the state that ruled the mainland of China before the civil war. ] is about the Island on which the Republic of China currently rules. The Taiwan article contains extensive information on the Island, its history (Including the Japanese period), its inhabitants, etc. To merge information on pre-1949 China into that article would dilute that information and probably the usefulness of that article.		:'''Oppose''' This article is about the state that ruled the mainland of China before the civil war. ] is about the Island on which the Republic of China currently rules. The Taiwan article contains extensive information on the Island, its history (Including the Japanese period), its inhabitants, etc. To merge information on pre-1949 China into that article would dilute that information and probably the usefulness of that article.
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	*'''Oppose''' per JohnBlackburne's arguments. --] (]) 14:41, 17 December 2016 (UTC)		*'''Oppose''' per JohnBlackburne's arguments. --] (]) 14:41, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
	* '''Oppose''' per JohnBlackburne's argument. '''Comment''' I agree tha the articles in the area of modern China are unusually chaotic in their relation to each other and uneven in their content, but the proposed merge does not address these issues] (]) 16:59, 17 December 2016 (UTC)		* '''Oppose''' per JohnBlackburne's argument. '''Comment''' I agree tha the articles in the area of modern China are unusually chaotic in their relation to each other and uneven in their content, but the proposed merge does not address these issues] (]) 16:59, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
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"1949 disestablishments"

Can the ROC really be said to have been "disestablished" in 1949?--Prisencolin (talk) 19:29, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

The PRC was established then so yes, the Republic of China that existed up to 1949, i.e. the post-imperial state of China, was disestablished.--JohnBlackburne_deeds 21:58, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

No, the RoC has never been disestablished; it still existing as is since its foundation in 1912. This article is about the history of the RoC at a specific period (since its foundation until the Communist Party of China founded the PRC). In order to be disestablished, the Communist Party should be entered in war with the Kuomintang and invaded Taipei, but it has never be ocurred (The PRC is still claiming that Taiwan as a province of them, but the Communist Party has not yet taken actual sovereignty over the territories governed by the RoC/Kuomintang —Taiwan, Penghu, and other islands–, but no war or serious conflicts ocurred between the Nationalists and the Communists). The "both" Chinas claimed the disputed territories as own, but the RoC (the Kuomintang) has never been disapeared, disestablished, or abolished, even, the Kuomintang was who represented "China" until 1971, until the International community decided that "China" is represented by the Communist Party, and considering Taiwan as a provice of the PRC). --Amitie 10g (talk) 02:20, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

Do you have reliable sources (one not affiliated with the CCP) that says the ROC was disestablished in 1949? Because there are quite a few that indicate the ROC is active and continues to hold Taiwan, Kinmen, Penghu, and Matsu, and continued an active conflict on the mainland into the 1960's. Kiralexis (talk) 23:46, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Recent edits

I have again undone the edits by 135.23.144.153, and thought it better to start a discussion here as clearly a fuller discussion is needed. There are numerous problems with that version, first being that it is not good writing. According to the first paragraph the Republic of China fell in 1949 but still survives today. Most of that paragraph is contained in one very long sentence, which despite its length does not contain a clear statement of what the topic is, which is what the first sentence should normally do: see WP:BEGIN. More importantly it does not agree with the rest of the article, and includes a source which is entirely irrelevant (a handbook on the modern Taiwan military is not a good source for the Republic of China from 1912 to 1949).--JohnBlackburne_deeds 06:24, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Merger Discussion

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Outcome is clear .-- Moxy (talk) 05: 05, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

Request received to merge articles: Republic of China (1912–49) into Taiwan; dated: December 2016. Proposer's Rationale: ROC controlled the Mainland until 1949 and this article needs to be merged with Taiwan. Discuss here. Wrestlingring (talk) 04:53, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

Oppose This article is about the state that ruled the mainland of China before the civil war. Taiwan is about the Island on which the Republic of China currently rules. The Taiwan article contains extensive information on the Island, its history (Including the Japanese period), its inhabitants, etc. To merge information on pre-1949 China into that article would dilute that information and probably the usefulness of that article.

If a merger between the information on Pre and Post 1949 ROC is desired I'd like to suggest it be done in a revised Republic of China article with Taiwan reduced slightly to only contain information on that Island. Kiore (talk) 08:15, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

oppose. Not a valid rationale to merge. This is about the state that occupied the territories of modern China and Taiwan between 1912 and 1949. Whether you consider it a part of Taiwanese history, a part of Chinese history, a combination of these, or something else, it is best served by having a separate article, in part so the competing claims and interpretations are covered in an article, but mostly as there is enough material to justify it.--JohnBlackburne_deeds 12:41, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
Oppose per JohnBlackburne's arguments. --T*U (talk) 16:11, 13 December 2016 (UTC
Oppose per JohnBlackburne's arguments. --Khajidha (talk) 14:41, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
Oppose per JohnBlackburne's argument. Comment I agree tha the articles in the area of modern China are unusually chaotic in their relation to each other and uneven in their content, but the proposed merge does not address these issuesch (talk) 16:59, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. Categories: