Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 20:57, 15 January 2017

Article discussion

SUPPORT - As shown in this quote, the Isaaq weren't the only clan involved: "Government atrocities inflicted on the Hawiye were considered comparable in scale to those against the Majeerteen and Isaaq". In addition, very few individuals classify these events as a whole as a genocide, let alone the Isaaq clan solely. Nor is there any cultural, national, racial, religious, etc. differences between them and other clans as they are all ethnic Somalis. . Those differences are what legally defines a genocide.. In addition, the majority of the events already mentioned and those of other clans are current present on the Somali Rebellion article.

After reviewing this users past edits, such as: continuously removing its territorial dispute with neighboring region Puntland in favor of Somaliland (see here, here, here, here, here, and here), changing the map of Somaliland to present it as separate nation (see here, here, and here), removing the disputed Khatumo State (see here), and changing Somalia's map to present its dispute with its Somaliland region as if it had some form of international recognition (see here, here, and here), this article seems to be further WP:PROPAGANDA. Due to the reasons mentioned this article should be deleted. AcidSnow (talk) 05:40, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

• Support - hyperbole as per o/p. Already more neutrally and contextually discussed elsewhere. Lacks the uniqueness that distinguishes actual genocides, as it's just one of various clan conflicts. Fails genocide on ethnoracial/cultural/national/religious grounds for reasons enumerated above, which are legal prerequisites for genocide per the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide . Also, sensationalist infobox file flouts MOS:LEADIMAGE. Along with the non-neutral political maps, does appear to be political WP:PROPAGANDA. Soupforone (talk) 16:57, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Keep - Note: I am the author of the Wiki article.

The article describes the systematic, state sponsored campaign conducted by Siad Barre and the Somali state against the Isaaq. It was a specific campaign against a specific target, in this case against Isaaq civillians. The article meets all of Misplaced Pages's guidelines on notability, I was frankly surprised not to find a stand alone article for the subject, given its widespread discussion both academically, officially (by various international organisations) and in international media.

To that point please allow me to quote from various official and academic sources to illustrate my point and prove the article is notable, neutral WP:NPOV, verifiable WP:V and indeed not WP:NOR and thus abides by the principal core content policies of Misplaced Pages. I hope this will comprehensively clear the issue.

(Please note, emphasis mine):

Selection of references of the Isaaq Genocide in official reports:

1- Report commissioned by the United Nations, comprised of the findings of a human rights investigator recruited by the United Nations to find out if crimes of international jurisdiction (i.e. war crimes, crimes against humanity or genocide had been perpetrated in Somaliland.

Based on the totality of evidence collected in Somaliland and elsewhere both during and after his mission, the consultant firmly believes that the crime of genocide was conceived, planned and perpetrated by the Somali Government against the Isaaq people of northern Somalia between 1987 and 1989. .

— Chris Mburu, Past human rights abuses in Somalia : report of a preliminary study conducted for the United Nations (OHCHR/UNDP-Somalia)

2- Report by the Africa Watch Committee, a branch of Human Rights Watch:

* The government has been at war with the Isaaks since 1981, after the creation of the SNM. Apparently suspecting every Isaak of supporting the SNM, the government unleashed a reign of terror and lawlessness in northern Somalia.

• Apparently frustrated by their efforts to defeat the SNM in direct combat, the army turned its firepower, including its air force and artillery, against the civilian population, causing predictably high casualties. On the claim of looking for SNM fighters and weapons, systemic house-to-house searches were carried out and thousands were shot in their homes. Residential areas were targets of artillery shelling; a substantial number of people died as their homes collapsed on them.

• Africa Watch's estimate of the number of people killed by government forces, shot point blank, or killed as a result of arial bombardment and artillery shelling and war related wounds, is in the vicinity of 50,000-60,000. (pages. 9,10)— Africa Watch, Reference

3- World Bank:

Isaaq grievances deepened over the course of the 1980s, when the Barre regime placed the northwest under military control and used the military administration to crack down on the Isaaq and dispossess them of their businesses. The civil war mounted by the SNM began in May 1988 and produced catastrophe. Government forces committed atrocities against civilians (an estimated 50,000 to 60,000 Somalis died, mostly members of the Isaaq clan, which was the core support for the SNM); aerial bombardments leveled the city of Hargeysa ; and 400,000 Somalis were forced to flee across the Ethiopian border as refugees, while another 400,000 were internally displaced.. (page. 10)

— World Bank, Link

Selection of references of the Isaaq Genocide in academic works:

4-

Following its defeat by Ethiopia in 1978, the Somali government of Siad Barre became discredited. The Somali National Movement headed armed opposition, with core support among the Isaaq clan family of north-west Somalia. In May 1988 the SNM nearly captured Hargaisa, the main city of the north-west, and another town, Burao. Siad Barre responded by reportedly declaring that the Isaaq should be wiped out. His son-in-law and commander of the operation, Gen. Mohamed Said Hersi Morgan, reportedly answered that the order couldn't be fulfilled because there were too many of them to kill. This is the closest case of attempted extermination of a group in north-east Africa, thwarted by the intrinsic difficulty of carrying out such a task when faced with fierced armed resistance and the ability of the population to flee across a nearby border.

The city of Hargaisa was destroyed in the government's counter-attack. (No other city in contemporary Africa has suffered comparable destruction.) Tens of thousands of people were killed. Virtually the entire populations of Hargaisa and other towns fled the country. The livelihoods of the people of north-west Somalia were all but destroyed by looting, the collapse of markets, the destruction of infrastructure, and the dissemination of landmines which meant that camel herds were unable to move safely to many areas of pasture.

Testimonies from the war are extraordinarily harrowing, comparable in the intensity of fear and violance to the depths of the Rwanda genocide..

— Donald Bloxham, A. Dirk Moses, The Oxford Handbook of Genocide Studies

Further academic sources below, I understand I have quoted at length above so I will try to keep the rest as brief as possible, full citation and links where possible are added:

5-

In January 1986, the Morgan Report was issued, the work of General Mohamed Sidi Hersi "Morgan", Siad Barre's son-in-law of Majerteen background . Officially it was a top secret report on "implemented and recommended measures" for a "final solution" to Somalia's "Isaaq problem". Morgan writes that the Isaaq and their supporters must be "subjected to a campaign of obliteration" in order to prevent them "rais their heads again." .

— Nicholas A. Robins, Adam Jones, Genocides by the Oppressed: Subaltern Genocide in Theory and Practice

6-

In a wave of terror that followed the initial military assault, the Somali Armed Forces engaged in a "systematic pattern" of attacks against unarmed Isaaq villages, as well as summarily executing an unknown number of suspected SNM supporters. Despite the devastation of the north that bordered on genocide, the Siad regime ultimately was unable to stop the advance of guerrilla armies on the capital of Mogadishu, especially after USC guerilla forces stepped up their attacks in the central region of the country. .

— Lowell Barrington, After Independence : Making and Protecting the Nation in Postcolonial and Postcommunist States p.125

Selection of references of the Isaaq Genocide in reputable international media

7-

... and ground bombardment of all major Isaaq towns and villages in the north in what was described as an act of 'genocide' (The Guardian 1989). This savage attack 'was seen, probably rightly, as an attack on the whole of the Isaaq people.... (page 243)

The number of deaths has been estimated at around 100,000 in the northern towns (The Guardian 1993). Up to 50,000 people are believed to have lost their lives in the capital city, Hargeisa, as a result of summary executions, arial bombardments and ground attacks carried out by government troops (Bake 1993). (page 244)

— Adebayo Adedeji, Comprehending and Mastering African Conflicts: The Search for Sustainable Peace and Good Governance

9- The Washington Post (1990):

In Somalia, the Isaaq clan is the target of government genocide. The Isaaq-based Somali National Movement (SNM), an insurgency group headquartered in Ethiopia for years, invaded Somalia in mid-1988 and now controls a large part of the north.

The government's response has been brutal. An aerial bombing campaign devastated large sections of the cities and productive areas in the north. Wells have been poisoned, villages have been burned and Isaaq civilians have been rounded up and executed by government troops. President Barre has also supplied weapons to Ethiopian refugees inside Somalia and to opposition Ethiopian groups to attack Isaaq civilians. Africa Watch estimates that 50,000 Somali citizens have been killed during the past year and a half, the majority being Isaaq civilians. Link

8a- Aljazeera Article titled:

Investigating genocide in Somaliland

As many as 200,000 people were buried in mass graves in the 1980s under Somali dictator Mohamed Siad Barre.

— Aljazeera, Reference

8b- A documentary first aired on Aljazeera on the subject:

People and Power meets a community coming to terms with the horrors of the past and joins forces with a group of forensic investigators and human rights activists attempting to bring an alleged war criminal, Yusuf Abdi Ali, also known as Colonel Tukeh, to account. Link to video.

10- Genocide Watch:

For the purposes of this Mass Atrocities Alert, Genocide Watch sees the following warning signs of genocide and atrocities being committed against the civilian population of Somalia:

Prior unpunished genocidal massacres, such as those perpetrated by the Barre regime, primarily against the Isaaq clan, in the late 1980s. Source

The plethora of discussions on the subject attest to its notability. There are many more reports and academic works and documentaries that deal with the subject of Isaaq genocide, the list above is a small sample.

I hope you can see the claim by the initiator of the deletion request that very few individuals classify these events as whole as genocide is incorrect. I cite the specific use of the word genocide in the United Nations' commissioned report (above, point 1), also used academically by Bloxham and Dirk Moses (The Oxford Handbook of Genocide Studies, point 4, above), and in reputable international media like both The Guardian (point 7), and The Washington Post (point 9) and finally on Genocide Watch (point 10) among many available sources.

Thus I conclude that the use of the word genocide is appropriate for the page.

The above demonstrates that the topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, and I hope, like me, you see that it is suitable for a stand-alone article WP:GNG.

Please note that the initiator of this deletion request has been waging an ongoing edit war both on the subject article of this request and other pages too. They have been the one causing vandalism in their deletion of article (via redirection) see here. This is very disruptive which I have mentioned to them in the notes of my edits. The article is well sourced, notable and neutral.

The request for deletion does not make sense. It seems to me, and this is unfortunate, that the initiator of the deletion request harbors negative sentiment against Isaaqs, no other reason to request deletion of a well of an article that deals with such an important subject.

So important in fact that it is the subject of a monument erected in the middle of the capital city of Somaliland, Hargeisa, the same city that was levelled by the Somali army and airforce. The arial bombardment of Hargeisa by the Somali Airforce is a very painful and recent memory to many survivors of the genocide and their families. I hope the quotes above conveys the sheer scale of this atrocity.

As for what has been said about my other edits, I am very happy to discuss my edits in the specific articles' talk pages. On their claims of my editing of the dispute page of Somaliland and Puntland. I have updated the article to reflect the realities on the ground as of end of 2016 and beginning of 2017. The facts are that Somaliland controls every single capital of all the regions it claims. It is true that there are opposing organisations under names like SSC and Khaatumo, but these organisation exist in name only and are far from being governments and/or real actors on the ground. In fact, Khatumo itself acknowledges that Somaliland controls the capital of Sool region, I can provide video recordings of the president of this organisation, mr. Ali Galaydh himself admitting that they have no control over these territories. Furthermore, Somaliland is currently in talks with Khaatumo, again, in those talks the leaders of Khaatumo admit Somaliland's control of the capital of Sool region (Laascanood).

Puntland's claim is in name only too, this was not the case prior to 2007, but it is now. I am happy to provide extensive evidence in the talk page of that article.

As for the changing of Somalia map. That too is to reflect the realities on the ground, and it is in line with precedent set by other Misplaced Pages articles. Please see the landing maps of Morocco, India, Pakistan and many other countries where the landing map clearly indicates parts that the country claims but does not control. I tried to keep it to the same neutral colours used in the maps of aforementioned countries, light green and dark green. I am happy to discuss this in detail in that article's talk page.

Due to the above reasons, I hope you can see that the article is notable, neutral WP:NPOV,verifiable WP:V and not WP:NOR and thus abides by the principal core content policies of Misplaced Pages. I do not understand why it is marked for deletion, it is wrong and disrespectful to the victims of the genocide. I have noticed that much of the content the editor initiating this request works on, or is involved in edit wars over, is slanted against certain Somali groups namely the Isaaq, as is the case for this bizarre delete request, that much is clear. Kzl55 (talk) 20:57, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

1. Mburu, Chris. Past human rights abuses in Somalia: report of a preliminary study conducted for the United Nations (OHCHR/UNDP-Somalia). United Nations. p. 37.
2. Bloxham, Donald; Dirk Moses, A. The Oxford Handbook of Genocide Studies. p. 540.
3. Adedeji, Adebayo (1 May 1999). Comprehending and Mastering African Conflicts: The Search for Sustainable Peace and Good Governance. African Centre for Development and Strategic Studies. pp. 243, 244.