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This page is for bringing attention to usernames which may be in violation of Misplaced Pages's username policy. Before listing a username here, consider if it should be more appropriately reported elsewhere, or if it needs to be reported at all:

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EthnicKekistan

The following discussion is an archived debate of the username below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for comment/User names). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result was: user has been renamed. Beeblebrox (talk) 22:17, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

EthnicKekistan (talk · contribs)

If you know what the "Kekistan" meme is all about, it is clear that this username means essentially the same thing as the sign to the right. User has been notified that this is a poor choice and replied that it is a joke. While humor is of course highly subjective, I don't believe a username that references discrimination against any race is appropriae for a collaborative project. Beeblebrox (talk) 03:07, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

.

• Hell, I'm white as the driven snow, and I see that sign when I see this username. I'm all for humor, but not to the point of invoking Poe's law. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 03:19, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
• I think it is pretty clearly a distruptive user name. If it is intended as a joke, it is far from obvious and its very construction suggests that it is not a joke. For example, the user User:GrammarNazi92 claimed their name was a joke, but as with most user names with "Nazi" in it, the account was indefinitely blocked. So, the user EthnicKekistan should either change their user name or be indefinitely blocked. --I am One of Many (talk) 03:39, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
• Not an appropriate subject for a "joke", the username should be changed. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 08:33, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

I think their claim that it's a 'joke' in the first place is rather disingenuous, when they create articles about the alt-right. — O Fortuna 10:01, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

• Personally I think including the image of a racist sign is a rather unfair attempt to influence the discussion. It's also bordering a personal attack, since it paints the editor in question as a racist w/o any evidence to back it up. Nevertheless, since the "Ethnic Kekistani" thing has a political dimension, I find it a particularly bad choice for a username, but we shouldn't go overboard in arguing the case. Kleuske (talk) 11:11, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
• If this adequately summarizes the whole "Kekistan" thing, I must concur with Kleuske that the sign is an unfair representation. It looks like a rallying cry for the alt-right, but we wouldn't disallow User:TrumpSupporter, so in itself that is not enough. The addition of "ethnic" makes the case worse, but I do not see that username as blatant racism (even though the alt-right itself is a cesspool of racism). To take an example from the other side: I doubt we would disallow User:RevoltedProletarian, but we would surely disallow User:ProletarianThatHangsBankers, even if the former probably shares a lot of view with the latter including the legitimacy of violent political action. Tigraan 11:58, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
• Well, I'd say it ought to be changed. See, if GrammarNazi92 wouldn't be anymore acceptable as GrammarNSDAP92, then this isn't aacceptable, esp. per their choice of artice creation. IMO L3X1 (distant write) 14:25, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

  @L3X1: I fail to understand your analogy. User:GrammarNazi92 is potentially offensive only to those who ignore the meaning of "grammar nazi", so it is not an instablock (unlike User:Nazi92), but what is your point? Are you arguing that User:Kekistan would be acceptable but User:EthnicKekistan is not? Tigraan 16:03, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Tigraan Yes. sorry for the bad analogy. L3X1 (distant write) 18:34, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

• As a queer black trans person, anything with "Kek" in the name puts me on high alert. This username made me uncomfortable immediately, especially considering the editor's choice of articles to focus on. Funcrunch (talk) 16:07, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
  • As a queer transperson, I'm not at all uncomfortable with it. In fact, since I'm a subscriber on YouTube, I saw the original Sargon of Akkad-video and figuratively laughed my head off. But then again, I don't wear "queer trans whatever" as a badge of honor, front and center in the discussion. Would you propose we ban any user name with "Kek" in it? Kleuske (talk) 16:56, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
    • Just because people have similar characteristics does not imply they experience the world similarly. I think a very good case has been made that the user name in question is clearly perceived as offensive to a substantial number of people of a variety of characteristics. --I am One of Many (talk) 17:47, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
      • Given the number of participants to date, I think that's a premature conclusion at best. Kleuske (talk) 17:51, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
        • I disclosed my status not as a "badge of honor", but to provide context for my perspective and discomfort. Funcrunch (talk) 19:43, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
          • I don't want to be impolite, but you "disclosed" nothing that isn't (front and center) on your user page. I, however, did disclose, since I usually keep this stuff off Misplaced Pages. This is, in fact, the first time I did mention it. Kleuske (talk) 19:48, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
            • I'm well aware of what is on my user page. But considering how often I have been misgendered despite having my pronouns and gender identity stated on there, I do not assume that most people look at it when I am participating in a discussion like this one. Regardless, my point is that my race, transgender identity, and sexual orientation play factors in my life experiences and reactions to usernames such as the one under discussion. Your life experiences and reactions are obviously different from mine, which is fine. Funcrunch (talk) 19:54, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
              • If I got a dollar every time I was misgendered, I'd be rich, but I didn't and I'm not (HHGTTG, for the connaisseurs f/m). Welcome to the club. Don't speculate on my "life experiences", please, you don't know anything about them. What I do know is that shoving your transgender identity in everybody's face is counterproductive. It tends to cause more trouble than it solves, in my experience. I still prefer being misgendered to being beaten up. Besides, it alienates a lot of people, who might be a friendly face, otherwise. Kleuske (talk) 20:38, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
                • I said nothing about your life experiences other than that they are different from mine. Regardless, I'm not engaging further with an editor who accuses me of "shoving transgender identity in everybody's face". Funcrunch (talk) 21:08, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
• From the link to knowyourmeme Tigraan provided I see no connection between the picture (or any sort of racism) and the username: they worship an Egyptian frog god and apparently seek asylum in the UK, a state not known for it's Nazi sympathies. Digging for possible, subliminal racism is a reach. Are there legitimate sources linking "Kekistan" to white nationalism?

I do find the sign in the picture, though likely irrelevant, unintentionally humorous. Imagine a black logician applying while explaining their demand is non-exclusionary: wanting white tenants does not preclude wanting black tenants. How was he to know the sign was not one in a series? And Detroit (where the sign was displayed) sees an influx of black residents solely because the sign was not logically explicit. James J. Lambden (talk) 17:59, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

• As Tigraan points out, kekistan is a troll meme associated with 4chan's /pol/ and the alt-right. Assuming the best of faith, the name indicates a meme trollish humor, but suggests trolling intent. I'd recommend changing it, as I would for EthnicTrollistan EvergreenFir (talk) 18:15, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

• Look, is Niggazwithattitude acceptable? L3X1 (distant write) 18:35, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Iwas surprised at the shallowness of know your meme's report on the kek trolls, or "shitposters" as they actually prefer to be called. The "Egyptian frog god" they worship is Pepe the frog. The same Pepe the frog that Richard B. Spencer and other more overt racists are so fond of. This is an elaborate trolling mechanism chock full of white nationalist dog whistles. It isn't meant to be obvious to everyone, although if you look at the front page of their "fan wikia" the nazi symbolism is hard to miss. Beeblebrox (talk) 18:40, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Oh, I'm totally with you Beeb on the whole "their racists by large" thing. Its just, does racism on top boil down to be reflected by the username of this one guy? I think dropping Ethnic will make it OK. L3X1 (distant write) 18:49, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

I do not understand any part of this comment. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:54, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Beeblebrox's or my comment? L3X1 (distant write) 18:57, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Yours, of course. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:59, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

On AN/I, EthnicKekistan said his name was meant to be humourous, not racists. I'm taking him at his word that he didn't mean for it be racist. Will other users think it is racist? Lets see: They see "ethnic" and rack their brains trying to remember if Kekistan borders Iraq or Russia. Then they go and look up Kekistan, and find out it is a skinhead club not a country, so they will think that "ethnic racist group" means "he's a racist!". For this reason I think dropping ethnic will be good enough. L3X1 (distant write) 19:05, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

Nevermind. --Floquenbeam (talk) 19:07, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

The preferred term is "shitlords", IIRC, and the Nazi-allusion in the flag is a reaction to the frequent use of the pejorative "nazi" or "white supremacist" (like Fascist (insult) , but worse. The swastika is not really a swastika and the flag is green instead of red. The page you cite contains no racist content whatsoever. If you think it does, please point it out, because I looked and found none. Kekistan is to PC-culture, what the Flying Spaghetti Monster is to fundamentalists, a mockery. The object of the game is to get the PC-crowd upset, and this RfC shows we are taking the bait, hook, line and sinker. Kleuske (talk) 19:16, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

I see your point, but you are also admitting that it is deliberately divisive, which is exactly the point of bringing it here. And whether its the same color or "really a swastika" or not, the flag is quite clearly based on the design to the left. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:54, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

The intention is to mock, which is not "intending to create a division", but rather reminding the target not to take things (and themselves) so damned seriously. It seems to me places like Berkeley could use a dose. And of course the Kekistani flag is based on the Nazi flag. That's the point. But it's not and there's only sillyness behind it. There's also a anarcho-communist version on the same page (belonging to an equally fictional revolutionary party), to give you some perspective. Kleuske (talk) 20:10, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

• I'm maybe more willing than most to assume for the sake of arguement this is supposed to be ironic humor, not trolling. It's still problematic and needs to be changed, per MPants and Boing and EvergreenFir among others. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:55, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
• I'm not with that fraction of the populace who sees making light of the Nazis in a mean-spirited way as merely silly. I don't see that sign. Instead, I see

• I agree and it's clear that the agenda behind the user name is guiding his/her creation of articles: 2017 Patriots Day Riot, Lana Lokteff‎, Identity Evropa, and Colin Robertson (activist)‎. --I am One of Many (talk) 21:57, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

• Not sure what "Kek" actually means however I first associated it with "Topkek" and assumed it was a troll, Also "Kekistan" had brought up some fake business stuff as well as 4chan stuff, Not sure if it's a troll, racist person or both but either way they can change their name or face blocking. –Davey2010 22:14, 18 April 2017 (UTC)
• The name may well be a biting satire, and the editor a staunch opponent of the alt-right who is using the name to point out how racist the undertones of the Kekistan meme are. Indeed, the Kekistan meme itself may be a mockery of the accusations of racism as many on the alt-right say, but if so, it's a rather... Well, there's no other way to say this; Moronic form of mockery. Example: Atheists are derided by fundamentalist Christians in North America and Europe as immoral, so atheists respond with satire which is clearly hyperbolic, silly and playful. No rational person could look at that meme and honestly wonder if that guy actually plans to eat that baby. Nor do the accusations against Atheism from any rational fundamentalist (I know, I know, but there are different degrees of rationality and even fundamentalists can fall within the bell curve) include actually eating entire live babies on giant sandwich buns. An atheist who makes a point of being as unpleasant as possible -or even presenting themselves as that sort of person- is not doing anything to mock the accusations, no matter their intentions. Such an atheist would be, in fact, confirming the accusations.

This is the point of my Poe's law comment at the beginning. Satire needs to be clearly identifiable as satire, it needs to be hyperbolic, and it needs to demonstrate the ridiculousness of whatever it is satirizing. If it doesn't do those things, then no matter the intention, it's not satire. And to the editor (not sure who and too lazy to check) who said they couldn't find anything racist at the Kekistan wikia? Well, I clicked one link on the cover page and found a page describing the "paymasters" and "provocateurs" of the social justice movement as "SJeWs". ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 13:39, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

• Disallow - For username acceptability, intent is irrelevant. Without passing judgement on the contributor, the name is clearly inflammatory and at odds with harmonious editing, and so it should be changed. – Juliancolton |  14:38, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
• Allow A lot of you, including the thread starter, should review WP:CIVIL. Spuriously accusing people of racism when they have not displayed any on-wiki conduct of that sort is a pretty big violation. Jtrainor (talk) 17:46, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

  Nobody is accusing the editor of racism, just opining that their chosen username has racist connotations (whether intended or not). Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 17:49, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

I can see several people explicitly stating that they're not ascribing racist motivations to this user name, and no-one stating that this user is racist. Not to mention the fact that a group of editors being incivil (which is not the case here, but still) doesn't change anything about this username, the editor's intentions in creating it, or how it is perceived by others in any way. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 18:01, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

I'm perfectly aware of the civility policy. And the username policy as well. I haven't said "this editor is a racist" I said "this was a poor choice and a divisive username." I'd say the same thing if their username implied any kind of divisive or exclusionist message. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:40, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

• I've been watching this debate for a few days now. I would like to point out a couple of things. (1) WHAT they edit does not matter: Nobody here should be judged by what they edit. Else, we'd never have editors working on articles in edgy, conflict ridden topics. HOW they edit is what matters. Tying this editor's edits into this debate might seem like wisdom, but it is wholly unnecessary, per my second point. (2) This is about how the username !sets the table for harmonious editing; In short, it doesn't. It is not unreasonable to see that some people will be offended by this username, and such usage could disrupt ability to work together appropriately. This very debate is proof of that. Further, imagine a media reporter quoting this editor outside of Misplaced Pages, and the world gets to see Misplaced Pages has an editor with this pseudonym. This is not the image I would want to portray. This editor does not have to have this username. Given its potentially divisive nature, choosing a username without the potential for such negative interpretation is an appropriate direction to take. If the editor is unwilling to do so on their own, then I would say this username should be disallowed. --Hammersoft (talk) 19:49, 19 April 2017 (UTC)
• EthnicKekistan (talk · contribs) indicated yesterday on their talk page that they intend to change their username voluntarily. Funcrunch (talk) 21:41, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Allow (despite it being too late) - As an ethnic Kekistani, the above characterisation does not reflect my lived experience of my ethnicity. By many of you. Kekistan is about shitposting memes at its core, and not white nationalist movements. I know non-whites who jokingly describe themselves as Kekistanis. It's about as white nationalist as Pepe the Frog is, and yes, I am aware that Pepe has been repeatedly described as a white nationalist symbol. Guess what, they (I mean idiots like these) are now doing the same with milk. I drink milk, I shitpost memes, and my deity of choice is Pepe. Stop oppressing my Kekistani brethren with your normie culture. Jesus... sorry I mean Praise Kek. In all seriousness, Kekistan is not about white nationalism. It's about making idiots out of the far-leftist movement over the globe. Unfortunately, that does mean that these symbols will be hijacked by far right movements at times because it suits their own goals as well. I don't think that's sufficient cause to force a name change to what is, otherwise, non-offensive. Or if it is, then why are we still using Wall Street Journal as a source? they've been endorsed by the Daily Stormer. Must be cause WSJ is a pro-white nationalist news outlet. That said, I will agree that if it causes more problems then it is worth, then fine change the name. I just don't see it as necessary. Mr rnddude (talk) 12:38, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Mr rnddude, I suggest you read my comment above, the one that starts with "The name may well be a biting satire..." ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 13:46, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

MjolnirPants ... it has so many different meanings that I can't keep track of it. Kleuske's explanation is eloquent beyond my own; Kekistan is to PC-culture, what the Flying Spaghetti Monster is to fundamentalists. It's not, however, meant to conform to Poe's law. From the outside it's explicitly meant to look bad without actually being bad. It's a middle-finger to those too lazy to use their brain for five seconds and who'd rather sit there and just screech unintelligibly because "WP:IDONTLIKEIT". Hence all the Nazi symbolism to annoy groups like Antifa. I mean you could call it a "trigger" hazard. Thinking more on it, it's going to cause more problems that its worth. Melt more snowflakes than it crystallizes. Just change it. Shadilay my dude. Mr rnddude (talk) 15:21, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

The Flying Spaghetti Monster might annoy fundamentalists, but Nazi symbolism can actually terrify people from marginalized groups. There's a significant difference. Funcrunch (talk) 15:31, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

It's not just significant, it's a fundamental difference. The FSM satirizes religion by parodying religious convictions in a hyperbolic way. The notion that adopting all the trappings of a Nazi, goosestepping around one's living room, reading white supremacist sites and making antisemitic remarks online is somehow a satire of people who accuse one of being racist is, as I said above, frankly moronic (not that it takes a moron to do something moronic, I'm not trying to attack anyone here). It demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of what satire is. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 15:39, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Your response is exactly why I advised you to read my comment above, which you either haven't done or don't understand, because it's a direct response (and a sound refutation) of the arguments you just presented in summary. Anyways, we've moved beyond the discussion of this name, and the point is moot, anyways. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 15:35, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Yes, I should be one of them given that I fall squarely in the group known as the "Untermensch". It's a bit like; Call me a Nazi and I'll start wearing a Nazi flag, singing Horst Wessel Lied, Duckfooting everywhere I go, and yelling Sieg Heil. Why? because fuck you (you generically, not you specifically). Somebody actually said something both true and funny about being called a Nazi recently. "When I hear somebody called a Nazi, my first thought is, must be a good guy". No sarcsasm intended. Too many genuinely normal people being called every epithet under the sun. MPants, I read your comment. It's a sound refutation of the wrong point. I'm intentionally being a fuckwit because you told me I was a fuckwit. It's a case of; I don't care about your opinion of me. Mr rnddude (talk) 15:46, 20 April 2017 (UTC) Okay, now I'm just being a twit for no reason. Mr rnddude (talk) 16:42, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

I'm intentionally being a fuckwit because you told me I was a fuckwit. It's a case of; I don't care about your opinion of me. Yeah, that's my point. It's contrarian, to be sure. But it's not satire, and it doesn't "make an idiot out of" the people who called you a fuckwit. It just makes you (as you said, the generic you, not you specifically) a fuckwit.

Personally, I'm all for the alt-right continuing in this tact, because I'm a card-carrying libtard who also happens to fit the self-adopted definition of a shitposter (everwhere but Misplaced Pages) and as such, I'm getting quite a bit of amusement out of watching this movement cut off its own nose to spite its face. Anyways, I'm enjoying this discussion, but if you want to continue, we should probably do it at our talk pages. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 16:15, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Continued on MPants talk page. Soon when I write a non idiot response. Mr rnddude (talk) 16:42, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

• Disallow Inflammatory, inappropriate, and a poor choice for a joke. Dlohcierekim 17:12, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

Furthermore, Misplaced Pages is neither a soapbox nor a battleground. Politically provocative usernames, regardless of the orientation politically of the user, should not be used here. Dlohcierekim 17:20, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

• Renamed to User:PerfectlyIrrational by request on user talk page, so this can be closed now by whatever the usual method is here. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 21:53, 20 April 2017 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the entries talk page). No further edits should be made to this page.

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