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Revision as of 13:31, 30 July 2017

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Name and Source

Please use the name Rosy, not Rosie and please don't mix both. Since the title of the article is Rosy, we can safely assume Rosy is the correct spelling. The Mathrubhumi article seems the most reliable source, so the article has been edited to keep according to its version of the story. Abpillai (talk) 19:56, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Move

Why was the page moved without discussion?Slatersteven (talk) 10:26, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Because it doesn't need discussion - it was a simple, conventional punctuation fix. No need for WP:RM etc. You are becoming a real pain regarding this article simply because you do not seem to understand the basics, just like in the RSN thread. - Sitush (talk) 10:43, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Christian

The fact her family have disputed the fact she was Christian are in a couple of sources, not just the one deemed unreliable.Slatersteven (talk) 10:33, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Religion

Slatersteven keeps reinstating a statement that according to X or Y (it seems to vary), Rosy was a Christian. He's basing it on this article. It should be blindingly obvious that we cannot say what Slatersteven keeps trying to say. The matter is contested, her family disagree with the claim, and the claim itself is based on a massive generalisation about her caste (as the source acknowledges). It is completely, utterly wrong to even use the form "according to X she was a Christian" in the lead section, and it is almost certainly wrong to mention it at all because the criticism is extremely valid. Thoughts? - Sitush (talk) 10:41, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

So someone has made the claim, we do not exclude material just because it is contested, we just point out the contest. I have also added another source for the claim.Slatersteven (talk) 10:47, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

As to what the original, source said "Celluloid shows Rosy as a Dalit Christian woman named Rosamma. This is based on Gopalakrishnan’s description of her. But, according to Kunnukuzhi, Rosy’s real name was Rajamma. “When she came to work in the film, J. C. Daniel made it Rosy. And then (in Nagercoil) she changed it to Rajammal.”

So yes my second edit (It should be blindingly obvious) reflected what the source said

And "Vinu Abraham, Celluloid’s screenplay writer, and the author of the book Nashtanayika from which the film has been inspired, says that his research found that Rosy’s family had converted. To explain this, he provides a sweeping generalization: “Because, in those days, the Pulaya community used to convert to Christianity.”"

So my first edit also reflected what the source said.Slatersteven (talk) 11:21, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

No. We reflect that it is contested and we keep it out of the lead. That is the minimum we do as a way of including the information. I am flabbergasted that you thought "(according to X a Christian)" would suffice. That's a newbie mistake. - Sitush (talk) 11:30, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

No we do not keep it out of the lead, the lead is a summery of the article, and this appears to be a major bone of contention (as well as reflected by multiple sources). It is in about the only book about her, and at least one of the three films.Slatersteven (talk) 11:32, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

In fact only one (of many sources) claim this is not true (well saying it is disputed rather then unequivocally coming out and saying it is false), if anything therefore saying it is controversial in the lead is a breach of undue. To properly reflect the balance of sources we should say she was Christian.Slatersteven (talk) 11:39, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

At the time I wrote, you only had one source there (the one I mentioned) and I'd already had to remove the statement because it wasn't in the citations that you had placed against it. That is where the confusion started.

Regarding the lead, her caste is significant to her achievement; her religion seems not to be. I know a lot about caste and how we treat it on Misplaced Pages; I suspect you do not. For example, one of the most controversial verifiable statements is the varna of a caste but we very deliberately- by long-standing consensus - avoid putting it in the lead because it just creates a storm. We discuss it in the body, showing all opinions with equal weight. That is not what you have done - even using the word "controversially" there is a bad move. Just relegate it. And please don't rush to suggest RN or 3O as you did in the RSN thread - I'm not interested. - Sitush (talk) 13:31, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

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