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Revision as of 18:06, 1 August 2017

This article was nominated for deletion on 9 July 2017. The result of the discussion was keep.

This article was nominated for deletion on 1 August 2017. The result of the discussion was keep.

Sweden Start‑class Low‑importance

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2nd AFD

@TheGracefulSlick: with a reminder to properly add the 2nd AFD ( Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/2016 Malmö Muslim community centre arson) to this page.E.M.Gregory (talk) 15:37, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

ISIS

Having read through the sources and what I could find in Swedish, especially local Swedish media: The suspected perpetrator was not found guilty in court. It was not considered to be an act of terrorism. There was no evidence, according to the court, that this was an ISIS arson, though the prosecutor claimed so. It could be. The evidence has been tested in court and found wanting. If we're even to have this article, we should change the name. /Julle (talk) 01:03, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

See also the discussion at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/2016 Malmö ISIS-related arson. /Julle (talk) 01:04, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

This isn't to say it couldn't be an ISIS attack, of course. Just that the sources and evidence don't support us stating so in the title. /Julle (talk) 01:10, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

I agree about the inapt title. I am copying here the most important part of the discussion referred to above:

Would an uninvolved editor please .... verify whether this source, and the others used does indeed confirm that .... "the subsequent arrest of an Amaq News Agency operative in Germany demonstrated that the attack was directed by the Islamic State" . The edit has BLP implications in that it effectively states that a person is guilty, whom a Swedish court has found innocent and a person in Germany is guilty who has not yet been tried.

I claim that the three sources state that somebody has been arrested in Germany for acting as 'reporter' on behalf of Isis, not as their 'director' and at the moment even this marginal involvement is an allegation, not a fact. The German arrest is included in the article as an allegation of 'reporting', as it should be. Pincrete (talk) 06:00, 12 July 2017 (UTC)

Other sources used in article:Independent … … International Business Times

The NYT source does not support that the attack was directed by ISIS, nor does it clearly say that Mohammed G was in contact with the arsonist before the deed. It does support that Mohammed G was in contact with him after the fact. I haven't read the other two sorces yet.Sjö (talk) 09:10, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

I moved the article to a new name. I think this is the better solution no matter who's behind it, honestly. It's less surprising – as someone living in Malmö, I didn't even understand what "2016 Malmö ISIS-related arson" was supposed to refer to, even though this made headlines when it happened. It explains what happened, not which group it's potentially related to. /Julle (talk) 00:05, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

Al Jazeera

Re our text: According to Al Jazeera, this attack was one of series of attacks on Shia mosques worldwide, including an ISIS-inspired attack on a Shia mosque on the outskirts of Stockholm in May 2017.

What the source says about 'Malmo' is: It (ISIS) claimed responsibility for a fire last year at a small Shia mosque in southern Sweden's Malmo. ..... Nothing about the Al Jazeera source suggest that ISIS did any more than claim responsibility for Malmo. Pincrete (talk) 08:01, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

NPOV editing

Editors interested in an accurate, NPOV article, should check this revision . I have better uses for my time toan to devote it to an endless struggle with the POV editors on this page.E.M.Gregory (talk) 15:34, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

You don't address ANY of the OR, PoV or Synth issues raised above and at AfD by several editors. What stupendous arrogance and indifference to NPOV and BLP makes you imagine that you know better than a Swedish court whether this was terrorism and whether the person tried was guilty or not. The court said it was not terrorism but arson and that no evidence was offered that the accused individual committed that arson. E.M.Gregory you clearly have divining powers not available to Swedish courts or sources. Pincrete (talk) 15:53, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

Other arson incidents on mosques in Sweden Suggestion

I suggest other arson incidents on mosques in Sweden be added to this article. Three other attacks that occurred before this attack were already causing tension in Sweden - Tensions Simmer in Sweden with Third Mosque Arson in Past Eight days.

Ami Horowitz claims

Firstly, Horowitz is not anywhere in the source "speaking about this event" (Malmo), secondly, most interviewees and film crew have said the film was 'faked'. Pincrete (talk) 07:51, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

I watched the video of Ami Horowitz on Fox news and in the article re: the interview, he clarifies that he was speaking about this Malmo Muslim community centre arson. He added about the huge price countries pay when they welcome immigrants. Sweden has a history / a social issue; many arsons in this particular community, this being one of them. See "See also". the eloquent peasant (talk) 16:20, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

The Salon article does talk about this incident, because Horowitz, does. He's sort of an opposite but lesser Michael Moore; you can't trust either of them on facts, but both are notable and we can certainly cite such notable POV filmmakers for the things they say. Pin, you should have watched th evideo, or read the article.E.M.Gregory (talk) 18:06, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

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