Misplaced Pages

Thanks for the translation!!

Ottoman flag

That flag that you claim as an ottoman flag is very controversial. Do you have source? Please give a reference. : Because if you read the Ottoman Flag and go to the cumhurbaskanligi web site for the insignia, that is not ottoman empire flag. It may be used by CUP which there are pics of CUP members with a flag that looks like it, but that is not even officiated bu CUP. I hope you revert your change.--OttomanReference 15:25, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

For citations read : {{citation}}: Empty citation (help) and not everything you read/see is true on internet, such as the change you made. You changed it to five star flag. If you are that much interested in this at least, you should put a seven star of this flag. Two mistakes does not make a right.--OttomanReference 16:08, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

These are all discussed. You need to read the discussions. The nation basded flag that your ideas are based did not apply to Ottoman Empire. There were not a single but many flags. Ottomans, unlike Republic of Turkey, was not a national empire, read Millet (Ottoman Empire). Any way your change is not even the flag you mention, if it was intended to be a nice addition. You are making a false claim by this change. Two mistakes does not make a right. That was the main reason so fag of Turkey is not under ottoman Empire there. Learning and fixing your mistakes is not a shamefull act, and makes you a bigger person. Please fix your change.--OttomanReference 16:20, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Atleat fight for what you said crescent moon and the star with seven angular. --OttomanReference 16:21, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks; You know that is not official flag, you continue to defend it. You really need to respect facts. The popular ideas or propaganda does not count into facts. There is nothing I can tell to you. Because you are telling the things you should prevent under these pages. Hope with time you think about what you really want to propagate. Do not talk with me on this issue please.--OttomanReference 16:40, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Warning

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages under the three-revert rule, which states that nobody may revert a single page more than three times in 24 hours. (Note: this also means editing the page to reinsert an old edit. If the effect of your actions is to revert back, it qualifies as a revert.) Thank you.Khosrow II 15:36, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Warning

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages under the three-revert rule, which states that nobody may revert a single page more than three times in 24 hours. (Note: this also means editing the page to reinsert an old edit. If the effect of your actions is to revert back, it qualifies as a revert.) Thank you.Khosrow II 15:59, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

You just broke 3RR

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages under the three-revert rule, which states that nobody may revert a single page more than three times in 24 hours. (Note: this also means editing the page to reinsert an old edit. If the effect of your actions is to revert back, it qualifies as a revert.) Thank you.Khosrow II 18:36, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Template:Turkic states

Hey there, im hanging on to dear life as usual, hehe. Regarding your message, Im not really convinced whether such a template is necessary because the term "Turkic state" itself is very debateable. Hmm yeah, my impression is that some of the opposing views seem to be inspired by nationalistic sentiments more than the actual validity of the template. But that doesnt justify the existence of the template though--Kilhan 07:40, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi there. Im not entirely convinced that the old image you reverted to, is better than the newer one . You can't really see much other than the minarets and the very top of the dome amidst the trees in the park in that one. If you don't mind, ill revert to the more "whole" image. Is that fine with you?--Kilhan 14:34, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi, like Kilhan says, its difficult to define a Turkic state. Perhaps there is a credible source on which to base a list of Turkic states. Thanks, --A.Garnet 11:23, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Another suggestion

Another possibility would be to move this list to a List of Turkic peoples article. What do you think? —Khoikhoi 19:14, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

You wouldn't mind merging List of Turkic states and empires? —Khoikhoi 19:21, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

It's just that there's a difference between the Turki halklar and Türki devletler... —Khoikhoi 19:23, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the input. :) —Khoikhoi 19:28, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Üzgünüm, Türkçe bilmiyorum. ;-) I know a few words that I've actually learned here on Misplaced Pages. Sometimes I even edit the Turkish Misplaced Pages... —Khoikhoi 19:36, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Wowturkey.com images

Images in that site are copyrighted, please see Misplaced Pages:Media_copyright_questions/Archive/Archive_3#Wowturkey.com_images discussion here, where it says, that images from that site are not to be uploaded to Misplaced Pages. Thanks, feydey 14:34, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Veliko Tarnovo architecture

We seem to be having a disagreement, so here are my arguments:

1. This architectural style can be seen anywhere in the former Ottoman Empire, not only in Turkey
2. I don't know how this style emerged, but it's quite far from my notion of Turkish architecture: richly ornamented, rounded, Central Asia-like, etc.
3. I don't think this style exists in other Turkic countries like Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, etc.
4. Therefore, it must have emerged through the mutual contact of the Ottoman Turks with other peoples in Asia Minor, i.e. the Greeks.
5. I've seen such architectural elements in Mount Athos monasteries (e.g. the higher parts of this one), so it may have shaped up even before the Ottoman invasion of the Balkans. Thus, the style may be a Greek influence on Ottoman (this means of course also Turkish) architecture, since it has little to do with the Central Asian traditions of Turkic architecture IMO.

Hope this is enough :) Todor→Bozhinov 14:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Patent? What do you mean by this? Of course, this architectural style was spread throughout much of the Balkans during the Ottoman rule of the region, but I'm talking about its roots, and I don't think they're Turkish. What you said about Central Asia further consolidates this: as the Turks came to Asia Minor and the Balkans, they may have found out their original style is not adjusted to the different conditions, and they could have adopted many elements from the Greek architecture in these regions that they found when they arrived. Todor→Bozhinov 16:31, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

You keep confusing "Turkish" and "Ottoman", two terms that are not equal and are even often contradictory. These houses (referring to Tarnovo in particular) belonged to rich Bulgarian merchants and were built by Bulgarian masters (e.g. Kolyu Ficheto, who worked specifically in Tarnovo and the area). Also, many of the Ottoman notables were not of Turkish/Turkic origin, but were voluntarily Islamized Greeks, Albanians, Slavs, etc.

As for Greek architecture, Greek Revival is a revival movement of Ancient Greek architecture. You don't think Greeks lived in houses all with those classical columns, pediments and so on in the Middle Ages, do you? Todor→Bozhinov 16:52, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Was Mehmed-paša Sokolović an ethnic Turk? What about Manuc Bei or Cigalazade Yusuf Sinan Pasha? They were all non-Turkic, but Ottoman. Many, if not most Ottoman Grand Viziers were not Turkic, but Islamized Europeans.

The Turks in Bulgaria aren't an Islamized local people, but the Pomaks (Muslim Bulgarians) are. The Turks in Bulgaria are Turks as much as those in Turkey, and no one claims they aren't. They arrived here from Central Asia via Anatolia and have no Balkan roots.

As for Kolyu Ficheto, not sure I understand. He didn't rebuilt anything, all of his constructions (bridges, houses, public buildings, churches) are unique works of art, that's why he's the best known Bulgarian architect from the period. And his works, as well as most houses of this type (excluding these), are not made of wood, but mainly stone and other materials. Todor→Bozhinov 17:23, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

There were almost no Greeks in Bulgaria, Serbia, Bosnia, etc... The style was spread to these areas, as well as to what is today eastern Turkey, by the Ottoman Empire. I just don't think its origins are Turkish, that's all :)

There's no reason the remove the reference to Bulgarian National Revival, since this is the name this style is known under in Bulgaria. There are many examples of this style all over the country and it's called Bulgarian National Revival in many articles. It refers to the period these houses were built (18th-19th century) and doesn't imply this style is only Bulgarian or something like that. But anyway, if you like that article like that, then I'm OK. Todor→Bozhinov 18:05, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I didn't get the one about Genoa, the pictures and my cloudiness, but never mind :) I see you're learning Bulgarian, успех! Hope you're not finding it too difficult. Todor→Bozhinov 20:46, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Ottoman architecture

You seem to be having a rather peculiar view on the Ottoman Empire. The Ottoman Turkish language has nothing to do with architecture and culture. As for the Turks in Bulgaria: yes, they are Bulgarians in the meaning of citizens of Bulgaria, not in an ethnic sense. Just like the Bulgarians in the Ottoman Empire were subjects of the Sultan. The Grand Viziers of Bulgarian origin (Kalafat Mehmed Pasha, Filibeli Hafız Ahmed Pasha) can safely be considered Bulgarian Ottoman people, just like Sokollu Mehmed Pasha was Bosniak/Serbian Ottoman, the Köprülü family were Albanian Ottoman and many other figures were Ottoman, but not ethnic Turkish. The Ottoman Empire was an eastern, multi-cultural society — unlike Turkey, it was not a nation-state of the Turkish people, and many areas of public life were dominated by prominent Islamized Christians (i.e. not ethnic Turks).

Now about the real thing (your arguments seem not to be related to the topic): As I pointed out previously, the Ottoman architecture has little to do with the Turkic architectural traditions, and is thus not (solely) Turkish. It was spread all over the Balkans and Anatolia during the Ottoman Empire and employs elements largely borrowed from other traditions. So, Ottoman architecture can be considered Albanian, Bulgarian, Greek, Serbian, Turkish, which merely indicates the geographic distribution, not its origin, which is in any case mixed (i.e. not solely Turkish, as I said).

Therefore, I urge you to remove the "Turkish" part from the Ottoman architecture line in the template, since it is very misleading and factually wrong. If you'd like to write an article specifically about Turkish architecture (pre-Ottoman, as a subset of Ottoman architecture and post-Ottoman), which is currently an inappropriate redirect, then that would be great, but it's a separate thing. Todor→Bozhinov 12:48, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

You seem to be going on with reverting, not only me but other users as well, and the reasons you cite are completely irrelevant and almost always factually wrong. The issues of language and state have little relation to architecture, and that's exactly what we're arguing about. Please make yourself familiar with my arguments above and answer them instead of claiming that Ottoman architecture is "Turkish and only Turkish", which is totally undue. Todor→Bozhinov 10:46, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Roma

Do not accuse other edits of being "anti-Turkish" or anti-anything for the edits they make. One must view the activity of editors as in good faith unless there is serious evidence to the contrary. If you do that again, I will open up a RfI for personal attacks. Besides, the number of Roma in Turkey really has nothing to do with the Turkish people, so why do you see a connection? CRCulver 14:09, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I notice that you delete information about Romanlar in Turkey, and describe these information as anti-Turkish. I am a bit curious howcome you think that giving information about the Romanlar is anti-Turkish. Would you please explain. This request is meant serious, that I would like to know how you see the issue. Most Romanlar in Turkey are very proud of being Turkish, therefore I am curious to understand you viewpoint. Oh by the way, removal of information can be considered as vandalism. Happy editing. Bertilvidet 20:25, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Maybe this article will have your interest. I am curious to know if you consider the Hürriyet paper as anti-Turkish. Bertilvidet 08:43, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Jemten and Celikokte

Selam Savaş, is there any connection between you and these two users? Both of the accounts are brand new, and it seems kinda odd that they would start their contributions reverting to your version of the article. If they are you, please review WP:SOCK. It's okay to have multiple accounts, but when you use them abusively (i.e. to evade the three-revert rule) it is considered against policy. Please let me know...I don't want to have to go to checkuser. —Khoikhoi 03:51, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I hope there are no hard feelings if I just check. BTW, Bursa is pretty close to Kırklareli, isn't it? Do you know any Çingene? —Khoikhoi 05:24, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Interesting, thanks. I don't think it's Türk Düşmanlığı because it doesn't really have anything to do with ethnic Turks, it's just about the number of Roma living in Turkey. The fact that there may be more Roma than you think does not mean that they replace Turks—they still stay the same. :) Therefore, whatever their number is, Turks are not effected. Ciao. —Khoikhoi 04:38, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Ottoman Empire

Is there any study you can show (real citation) that claims Ottoman Empire is a colonial empire? If you look at the text, it was on purpose the text did not includes pre industrialization as these empire's transferred raw materials from their colonies. Which raw material did Ottoman Empire transferred from its colonies, soldiers? It would be goodly nice of you to revered your changes regarding this issue. --OttomanReference 12:54, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Please; This will help you alot Citation--OttomanReference 13:24, 23 September 2006 (UTC).

History template

You are correct about the Urartian language. Nobody is claiming otherwise. Take a look at Template:History of Iran and Template:History of France and then tell me what you think.--Eupator 18:52, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Please tell me you realize that if a language is agglutinative that doesn't mean it's realted to another agglutinative language. In fact most agglutinative languages are unrelated to eachother. Anyway that's besides the point, Urartu is part of the history of Armenia in the same way Gaul is part of the history of France. Another example would be how the Minoan civilization is part of Greek history even though Minoans did not speak an IE language from what we know. Btw, since so very little is known about Urartu some scholars have suggested that the ruling class of Urartu spoke Hurrian, and they ruled over IE speakers. Kind of like how earlier IE rulers of Mittani ruled over Hurrian speakers. Remember Assyrian sources testify that Urartu was a confederation of allies that emerged as a Kingdom from an earlier alliance (Nairi) against Assyrians.--Eupator 19:34, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Btw, if you revert again you will be blocked, see WP:3RR.--Eupator 19:36, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Roma people

Bir şey değil. :-) —Khoikhoi 19:48, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the barnstar! I really appreciate it. —Khoikhoi 21:56, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Your Question

Are you talking about the Turkmen? A google search will tell you a lot about Turkmen. Or even wikipedia.Khosrow II 21:35, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Its amazing how you call sourced information from Brittanica and Iranica propaganda. Have you ever thought that maybe you are wrong and we're right?Khosrow II 21:04, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Edits to Hazara

Please refrain from undoing other people's edits repeatedly. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages under the three-revert rule, which states that nobody may revert a single page more than three times in 24 hours. (Note: this also means editing the page to reinsert an old edit. If the effect of your actions is to revert back, it qualifies as a revert.) Thank you. Michael Billington (talk • contribs) 13:06, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, we will talk in the Bulgarian discussion with you :) 84.252.58.133 15:03, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Osmanlı Türk mimarisi

Merhaba Savaş. I reverted your move of Ottoman architecture to Ottoman Turkish architecture. Please see my explanation at the talk page. Thanks. —Khoikhoi 00:55, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

LOL

Yes, exactly, I'm asking for help from my other accounts, because I have dual personality disorder, and I'm actually two people in my head... LOL(sarcasm)Khosrow II 21:13, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

seljuq dynasty

Bu makaleyi daha yeni goruyorum, bazilarinin selçuklular turk degildi falan dedigi dogru mu??!! Talkpage'e ben de bir not biraktim ve de makaleyi belli bir sure goz altinde tutuacagim.. cheers! Baristarim 02:23, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Mustafa Akalp

Hello and much regards for your efforts. Mustafa Akalp 12:21, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Merak etme, en azindan bir sure bazi makaleleri goz altinda tutmaya çalisacagim.. Pan-iranism olayinin daha yeni farkina vardim, boyle makalelerin oldugunun ve boyle pustlarin oldugundan haberim yoktu.. Adamlar resmen Selçuklar ilk once Muslumandi sonra da Iranliydi(?? - Iran'i yonetmisler, yani Allah'ini seversen ayni sey mi? Iranca ogrenmekle Iranli mi olunuyor??), Turklukle alakalari yoktu falan diyorlar ve de her lafi binbir çemberden geçirip her turlu demagojiye basvuruyorlar, var mi boyle bir sey ya.. Valla bu Wiki insanin ruh sagligi için tehlikeli :))) Talk:Seljuq_dynasty ve Talk:Turko-Iranian da epey bir post'lar yazdim, source'lar da koydum.. Bu konuda biraz yanliz kaldigini arsivlere bakinca fark ettim, tabi benim elinden gelebilecek olanin da limiti var, yirmi kisiye karsi duramam ama elimden geleni yapmaya çalisirim.. Bir kaç tane daha kullaniciya haber verdim, umarim onlar da bir el atarlar.. Tabi Turkler olarak her zamanki gibi sorunumuz organizasyon eksikligi ne yazik ki  :))).. take care ve kolay gelsin!! Baristarim 12:27, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Turkish Link

We dont have a problem with it, its just that you keep putting it in the wrong place. Put it on the right article. Also, read up on how Misplaced Pages works if you do not yet know exactly how things work around here and where you place stuff and how edits should be made. Thanks.Khosrow II 15:06, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Im talking about the Turkish article link you keep trying to put on the Persian people page.Khosrow II 16:05, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

User notice: temporary 3RR block

Sağol, Yeah but I'm Beşiktaş fan :) ehehe :P It's bad not leaving a message to others talk page, just mine grr... Zaparojdik 22:48, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Gecmis olsun. I am sure this is not the worse time to leave the computer and celebrate Bursa Spor! Bertilvidet 19:44, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Update

Valla bunlar iyice azitmislar.. Babur, koskoca Baburnameyi Turkçe yazmis olan adami bile Iranli yapmislar, var mi boyle birsey ya?? :)) Her neyse, Britannica'dan referans buldum da Turk oldugunu yapistirdim, sikarsa çikarsinlar bakalim, wiki'de oyle bir source'u çikarmak kolay mi.. Timur, Britannica'nin bile Turk fatih diye bahsettigi adami bile kiliktan kiliga sokup Mogol yapmaya calisiyorlar.. Valla seytan diyor ki.. Her neyse, bu isin ucunu biraz daha tutacagim.. Selcuklular için de ayni sey geçerli, sayfa unprotected olsun da.. Bu pustlar Azerilere de saldiriyorlar bakiyorum.. List of Azerbaijanisda Khosrow 3RRi kirmis, onu bildirdim, bir de herkese polislik yapiyordu.. Turklerle ne alip veremedikleri varsa, tabi yuzlerce sene Selcuklular, Timur, Mughul vs tarafindan yonetilmek epey koymus bunlara.. :)) Baristarim 02:16, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Canvassing

Regarding edits such as this: No one is going to be 'battling' anyone. Content issues need to be worked out through discussion on the talk page, not through revert warring and CERTAINLY not through canvassing other users in the hopes they will become meatpuppets supporting your side. This sort of 'ganging up' is strictly prohibited, and if you try to encourage it again after your block expires, you will simply be reblocked. --InShaneee 21:54, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Reblocked

In light of comments such as this, as well as your repeated edit warring on numerous pages just after your previous block expired, you have now been blocked for one week. --InShaneee 17:31, 8 October 2006 (UTC)