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Lupus is a bit mysterious, perhaps due to its scant presence in the population. Therefore, clear answers are hard to find. I have a question, how often do the effects become fatal for those with Lupus?

Uh... this page requires a lot of attention (e.g. the fourteen diagnostic criteria), and epidemiology will be part of it when I finally lay my hands on this. As far as I know, there are few longitudinal studies that follow-up Lupus patients and their causes of death. Nevertheless, they suffer from accellerated atherosclerosis, especially when having positive antiphospholipid antibody, and they can develop a nastry nephritis (lupus nephritis). Furthermore, Lupus patients are at risk for infections when being treated with immunosuppressant drugs... Most will die of their Lupus rather than with it. JFW | T@lk 11:14, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I am new to this website - recently diagnosed w/ lupus - can anyone recommend a good website/chat room for information? Thank you.

Anti-DNA?

Looking forward to your getting your hands on it, certainly! But in the meantime, I wonder if the whole reacting against DNA thing is quite true? (I'm not trying to imply it isn't, I don't know, that's why I'm asking). Lupus is characterised by antinuclear antibodies, but are they actually anti-DNA? I was just wondering if they might not be anti-another bit of the nucleus... histones or proteins specific to the nuclear envelope, for example? --Viki 23:24, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I just found the answer in abzyme. I guess I should've looked there before. But I'm still keen to encourage wait-til-I-get-my-hands-on-it man to get his hands on it. Or I will (that's not a threat, by the way, I just want to see the article expanded). --Viki 23:29, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)

There is both ANA and Anti-DNA that get measured. --Waterspyder 00:22, 12 October 2005 (UTC) just diagnosed -

Big rejig

Okay, done the threatened giant edit, but it could still probably do with something on the history of the disease and progression of clinical symptoms. Also, I'm just a student, so any real doctors/immunologists, go wild with the corrections!

--Viki 17:49, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Update

I am altering some of the historical information since there are several different stories as to why it is called Lupus. I am also updating some of the drug information since quinines are still used in almost all Lupus patients (barring extreme side effects). Corticosteroids have some seriously negative effects and therefore many doctors are reluctant to prescribe them in the longterm due to these side effects, which include immunosuppression. --Waterspyder 00:23, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

Don't put too much in the intro, please. JFW | T@lk 03:12, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

What is acceptable for the intro then? I think that the statistics on number of people it affects is important. I think I would altogether like to see the part on the name removed since there are so many different interpretations and no one is really sure. Why are we favouring one over the other?

Additionally, the information on epidemiology was removed as was information on medication. Is there any particular reason for this? I read the instructions and I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong in this particular instance.

--Waterspyder 00:27, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

The number of people affected is not really useful. The proportion (e.g. 1 in 1000) is more to the point; ideally, incidence and prevalence ought to be menioned.

The favoured explanation is the one that has the most currency. JFW | T@lk 04:57, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

You also left a comment on my talk page. Let's discuss everything here. The intro is supposed to be telegram-style, and as long as things can be discussed briefly there is no reason why medication or epidemiology can't be alluded to. JFW | T@lk 06:48, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

I apologize that I am a little new at this, so I am getting used to the mechanisms of communication. I checked the page today and I presume it was you that made some alterations to it, and it definitely works a lot better in my mind. I fixed some punctuation, but that was it. The Causes under Pathophysiology is the only other section that needs major changing since there are presently thought to be three causes of Lupus. The first one is genetic, and is either the result of a spot mutation or it is hereditary and in the second case can be passed on to children. The second type is attributed to viral or bacterial infection. There is no documented proof, but many doctors suspect this is the case and suspect Staphylococcus and Streptococcus infections to be a chief culprit. The final type is Drug-induced Lupus. Currently the article indicates that medication exacerbates lupus symptoms, and while this is true, Drug-induced lupus is where medication actually causes a physiological mimicry of lupus that is treated in the same way as the first two forms, but usually once the medication is stopped, all symptoms of lupus also cease and many patients never again present with lupus. It's like fake lupus. Sunlight, stress and medication can all exarcerbate symptoms of all three. Finally, and I'm not sure where this should be mentioned, but under Diagnosis, there is a mention of an effect on electrolytes, but what is actually occurring is that there is an increase in the electrolyte sedimentation rate (ESR). Anyhow, that's pretty well it, I would be happy to fix the article in these remaining areas, but I guess I want to run it by you first? Thanks! --Waterspyder 15:18, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Additional information obtained from , , . There is a ton more information that needs to be worked into the page and restructured, but I'm not up to the challenge right now. --Waterspyder 00:26, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

The three causes can be mentioned in an "etiology" section. Perhaps quoting a recent review is the best thing we can do. I'm not sure about the "spot mutations", as lupus is not known to be monogenic.

Drug-induced lupus should be mentioned in passing, but could well have its own article, as it is a distinct disease entity with distict serology (anti-histone antibodies) and a distinct cause (e.g. hydralazine, antithyroid medication).

We should avoid web references as sources; these are typically aggregations of articles in medical journals, and in that case the journal is the primary source. JFW | T@lk 02:21, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

You are correct, Lupus is the result of numerous genes, and is usually pretty dependent on parental contributions, but sometimes spot mutations do play a role according to some research (I would have to go hunting again). Basically it is not responsible for the entire cause of the disease ina person, but was thought to play a contributing role. Given I did read this 3 or 4 years ago, so it's also entirely possible that new research is debunking old research. I'm sure in 5 or 10 years reasearch on genetics will be much clearer in this field. I didn't add the web sources to the page itself for the very reason that while some of these are great FAQ articles, you can access them by going to places like lupus.org. I agree, Drug-induced lupus could easily have its own page, I just don't know quite as much about it. In the meantime, I think I am done for now on this page. Thank you for putting up with me. --Waterspyder 18:24, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

-Hi, don't know where to find or verify this, but I have heard/read that the term lupus is related to the belief that sufferers had lycanthropy- that is, people used to believe people with lupus were "werewolves". It has something to do with the skin rash and light sensitivity. Sorry I don't know more, but it might be something to look into...— Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.35.4.7 (talk • contribs)

What I had actually read was that "Lupus" was used because the malar rashes sometimes looked like somoene who had been attacked by a wolf. I have also read another story which attributed "Lupus" to the French word "Loupe"; the mask that women wore on formal occasions and served to conceal the malar rash. --Waterspyder 14:04, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

The update I have read is still missing or mistakes three critical areas in the introduction alone.

Firstly, the introduction doesn't begin with the correct definition of lupus. It is an autoimmune rheumatological disease. This is why it falls under rheumatology and patients see a rheumatologist. I feel it is extremely important to add this to the into as well as further on in the article.

Secondly, the intro states that Plaquenil is the only antimalarial drug used to treat lupus. That's true; but the reason it is used is that it is a drug used to treat rheumatoid diseases, including rheumatoid arthritis (RA).

Thirdly, the intro and article do not clearly state that the parts of the body affected can indeed all be classified: it affects the connective tissues of the body. This includes literally everything except hair, nails, and bones (blood and skin are included, as are muscles, tendons, organs, etc.). It's much more clear to readers when it's spelled out this way, rather than trying to list all body parts that are affected by lupus and only giving a partial list--especially in the introduction. Believe me, I've tried when writing about lupus elsewhere!

I could edit the article, but am hesitant to until we discuss these corrections and suggestions, please.

--(author, The First Year: Lupus) --Editrx 23:22, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Prognosis

I was confused by the statement "...fewer than five years. Advances in diagnosis and treatment have improved survival to the point where over 90% of patients now survive for more than ten years..."

Sounds like we used to die after 5 years, but now we die after 10 years or so!

Would it be better to expand this by adding something like: "longitudinal studies over a 10 year period show that more than 90% of patients do not die during the 10 year study, and, in general, the majority of people can hope to live a normal life-span" Ref: http://www.lupus.org/education/faq.html#4

Well, prognosis has improved with better treatment. The article says exactly that. If you have a reference for the study you cite, could you work that into this article? JFW | T@lk 23:46, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

The stat I was given when I was first diagnosed was 15% die within the first 10 years. My high school Biology teacher however told me that 90% of people die with Lupus, not from Lupus. I'm far more disturbed however by the difficulties associated with pregnancy. I should probably work on a section for Lupus and Pregnancy, there are some *serious* challenges (Lupus and Pregnancy from Lupus.org --Waterspyder 14:28, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

If you'd like, you can reference the chapter on lupus and pregnancy from the previous edition of my book (pp. 206-210), which I believe is online at Amazon and Google Print (The First Year: Lupus). No, I'm not trying to sell copies; it's going into a new edition anyway (which I have to get cracking on). But it may save you some time and provide pointers to primary resources you may not have read. Or, let me know if you'd like me to write up a section for the article here. --Editrx 23:30, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

nutrition

There's currently no references to other, natural, treatments. This is one book I have read, with lots of good references to back it up, but no doubt there's other too.

Image needed

Anyone have a free photo of a lupus sufferer? —Keenan Pepper 05:34, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

try to find some free foto of Seal_(musician). he's got lupus. 84.129.157.24 (talk · contribs)

That is incorrect. Seal had lupus vulgaris (cutaneous tuberculosis). The malar rash of SLE does not cause scarrring. JFW | T@lk 19:08, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Image up on the malar rash article. Salanth 12:15, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

JFW, the malar rash of SLE can cause scarring - see www.postgradmed.com/issues/2003/11_03/dallera.htm among others, which states: "The discoid lesions seen in SLE are raised, erythematous plaques with adherent scale and occur most commonly on the face, scalp, and neck. Over time, these lesions lead to changes in skin pigmentation and scarring."

I would note that "commonly" should be edited to "often." The malar rash is not seen in a majority of lupus patients, and never in ones who don't manifest discoid lupus -- which is another section altogether: the problem of lupus patients "not looking sick." I hesitate to edit the caption without a discussion of that, however. Maybe I'm just too shy about it. (--author, The First Year: Lupus) --Editrx 23:34, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Seal

On the wikipedia Seal site it says that Seal had lupus - just lupus. And he doesnt seem to be dying (thank God) so what is the line about lupus being 'chronic'? (First line of the article)?

There are several versions of lupus. Drug-induced, cutaenous (skin-related) and systematic. Drug-induced usually occurs in cancer patients receiving treatments (I think). Seal has the skin related one, which may or may not develop into systematic. The last one is a chronic disease that takes an unpredictable variable course. Meaning a lupus flare could last anywhere from 6-months to 6 years then go into remission only to return within 6 months, 2 years or 5 years. Totally unpredictable. (sorry new to this wiki, perhaps I should RTFM) ~ rabbitinpumpkin (05/12/06)

Askmen.com has a blurb about Seal's scars being from discoid lupus. http://www.askmen.com/toys/interview_100/102_seal_interview.html Hm...looks like there's no separate article for discoid lupus - it just links back here to SLE. Salanth 12:22, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

the great imitator

I re-added the line "it is often mistaken for other illnesses because the symptoms come and go unpredictably" Sp that it reads... "SLE is known as "the great imitator". Its symptoms vary so widely it is often mistaken for other illnesses because the symptoms come and go unpredictably". As any of us that deal and have dealt with SLE (my daughter died from this dread disease a couple of years ago) I not only think it pertinent but an absolute to have remain in the article. As with SLE, we know this is one of the main reasons it is so hard to diagnose due to the symptoms coming and going. When doing any kind of research, knowing such information is not only valuable, but also nessary to understanding this illness and the range of possibilities that are often overlooked due to this very fact.--Mystar 15:24, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Mystar: There are now both reasons for lupus being called the great imitator - there are references for both, so it makes sense that both are in the article. What is your reasoning for removing the reference to the multitude of symptoms? Now included are three references to why lupus is called the great imitator - it has many symptoms, it mimics other illnesses (because of the many symptoms) and the reference you included where it discusses the unpredictable coming-and-going of symptoms. WLU 20:34, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Initially the problem was that you removed (I'll assume an oversight on your part here) an extremely important fact regarding this disease. Secondly, you added an unnecessary link, making a repeat of the link I places and the information contained therein. We do not need duplicate information/references. Thirdly, you mis-referanced the additional link you placed. The section you edited was talking about SLE being mistakenly diagnosed due to the mimicking of symptoms it displays. Every Lupus sufferer is soon aware of these facts. People needing AWARENESS need to see and understand this fact. You miss-linked an article about Lupus among African-American Women, which had nothing to do with the section at hand. While I applaud your wanting to add this to the page, the place you inserted it to was not the correct setting. I reformatted the page to include this very pertinent fact. I suggest you please take time to read this section I reformatted very carefully. People count on information like this to assist them in their search for information and help. No matter what you think, I am acutely and intimately well versed in Lupus. Having done years worth of research and study. Please do not make this an edit war.--Mystar 04:03, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

The sentence I removed didn't make sense in the context. The sentence you replaced it with "SLE is known as "the great imitator", as it often mimics other illnesses because the symptoms come and go unpredictably" also didn't make sense in the context - illnesses are diagnosed through a coherent and specific set of symptoms. What makes it a great imitator is the variability of the symptoms, and also the variability across time supported by your reference. I added the link to support the statement of why it's called the great imitator. Your subsequent replacement reference included the sentence "SLE is known as "the great imitator", as it often mimics other illnesses and because they come and go unpredictably." which supports both points - it mimics other illnesses and its symptoms vary over time. Replacing the statement that it is misdiagnosed due to temporal changes alone is incorrect, it is both. Splitting the sentence "SLE is known as "the great imitator" because its symptoms vary so widely it is often mistaken for other illnesses> and because the symptoms come and go unpredictably" disconnects the idea of it being a great imitator from the reason why, which is why I kept it as a single sentence.

Your subsequent edits duplicated sections - you broke the introduction into sections on known treatment and diagnosis. Both these sections exist below. I reverted and applied the changes that you and others made to subsequent pages. Putting the reference from uuhsc.utah.edu/uuhsc didn't make sense, there is no need for a reference saying Lupus is the great imitator when the rest of the sentence and references discuss this. The references to people of colour and the brief article on lupus have the statements about why they are great imitators. Though the wrong diagnosis article does have statements about mimicing other illnesses the people of colour article contains the statement "With its numerous symptoms, lupus is often mistaken for other diseases, and has often been dubbed “the great imitator.” This article emphasizes the wide variety of symptoms, a reason why it is called "the great imitator".

Thirdly, you mis-referanced the additional link you placed. The section you edited was talking about SLE being mistakenly diagnosed due to the mimicking of symptoms it displays. Every Lupus sufferer is soon aware of these facts.

The article is for the population at large, not for the Lupus sufferer. The link I added justified one reason why it's the great imitator. I don't see how it is mis-referenced.

People needing AWARENESS need to see and understand this fact. You miss-linked an article about Lupus among African-American Women, which had nothing to do with the section at hand.

This isn't about awareness, it's about factual content. The article about lupus among AA women was relevant. As I stated above, it contains the sentence "With its numerous symptoms, lupus is often mistaken for other diseases, and has often been dubbed “the great imitator.", which seems to make it relevant. WLU 15:15, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Mystar - I reverted because of the duplication of sections, the content is addressed above. WLU 16:17, 10 October 2006 (UTC)