| Revision as of 22:40, 17 October 2006 editJtir (talk | contribs)4,773 edits How did Serebryakova's signature change over her career?← Previous edit | Revision as of 10:41, 18 October 2006 edit undoAlex Bakharev (talk | contribs)49,616 editsm →Name spelling: fmtNext edit → | ||
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| :"Serebryakova" is one of the spellings used in English, just as "Serebriakova" is. Misplaced Pages uses the former instead of the latter because it complies with more generic ] guidelines. Please do not change this spelling back; it is ''not'' incorrect.—] • (]); 15:12, 17 October 2006 (UTC) | :"Serebryakova" is one of the spellings used in English, just as "Serebriakova" is. Misplaced Pages uses the former instead of the latter because it complies with more generic ] guidelines. Please do not change this spelling back; it is ''not'' incorrect.—] • (]); 15:12, 17 October 2006 (UTC) | ||
| ::I'm not the author, but I think that Catherine's edits were OK. The difference between "Serebryakova" and "Serebriakova" is not material, although I would always prefer the former. Catherine, you should reflect that spelling rules in English and French differ. There is no reason why the Anglophone project should adopt French transliteration. --<font color="FC4339">]</font> <sup><font color="C98726">]</font></sup> 15:32, 17 October 2006 (UTC) | ::I'm not the author, but I think that Catherine's edits were OK. The difference between "Serebryakova" and "Serebriakova" is not material, although I would always prefer the former. Catherine, you should reflect that spelling rules in English and French differ. There is no reason why the Anglophone project should adopt French transliteration. --<font color="FC4339">]</font> <sup><font color="C98726">]</font></sup> 15:32, 17 October 2006 (UTC) | ||
| :::] A footnote could be added noting these variants (the article already notes the ''Lanceray'' variant). I looked at the paintings on ], but couldn't read her sig on any, although there appears to be a sig in the lower left corner of "Lit by the Sun. 1928". The sig on , which is not on Commons, appears to have an "i" in it. Is there any way her French passport sig could be made ]? Even better would be scan of a handwritten letter showing her sig — that would make a wonderful addition to the article. --] 17:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC) | :::] A footnote could be added noting these variants (the article already notes the ''Lanceray'' variant). I looked at the paintings on ], but couldn't read her sig on any, although there appears to be a sig in the lower left corner of "Lit by the Sun. 1928". The sig on , which is not on Commons, appears to have an "i" in it. Is there any way her French passport sig could be made ]? Even better would be scan of a handwritten letter showing her sig — that would make a wonderful addition to the article. --] 17:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC) | ||
| ::::The article on ] notes that he is sometimes credited as ''Georges Annenkov'' (e.g. for his work on films). Sometimes he signed his work ''G. Annenkoff''<s> (The article does not say this though)</s>. I recall seeing a hand-written sig spelled this way, but the best I could find is this: | ::::The article on ] notes that he is sometimes credited as ''Georges Annenkov'' (e.g. for his work on films). Sometimes he signed his work ''G. Annenkoff''<s> (The article does not say this though)</s>. I recall seeing a hand-written sig spelled this way, but the best I could find is this: | ||
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Name spelling
The precedent orthograph was wrong, so you should write Zinaida Serebriakova as the artist used to signed herself on her works. On her french passport she was Zinaïde Sérébriakoff, born Lanceray. I have made also some changes on the biography. I am the little niece of the artist (my great grand mother was the sister of Evgeni Aleksandrovitch Lanceray), so I quite well know her life, and where are the paintings. But any new informations are welcome. thank you. Catherine Boncenne
- "Serebryakova" is one of the spellings used in English, just as "Serebriakova" is. Misplaced Pages uses the former instead of the latter because it complies with more generic WP:RUS guidelines. Please do not change this spelling back; it is not incorrect.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 15:12, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
- I'm not the author, but I think that Catherine's edits were OK. The difference between "Serebryakova" and "Serebriakova" is not material, although I would always prefer the former. Catherine, you should reflect that spelling rules in English and French differ. There is no reason why the Anglophone project should adopt French transliteration. --Ghirla 15:32, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
- Lit by the Sun. 1928 A footnote could be added noting these variants (the article already notes the Lanceray variant). I looked at the paintings on Commons, but couldn't read her sig on any, although there appears to be a sig in the lower left corner of "Lit by the Sun. 1928". The sig on this nude, which is not on Commons, appears to have an "i" in it. Is there any way her French passport sig could be made verifiable? Even better would be scan of a handwritten letter showing her sig — that would make a wonderful addition to the article. --Jtir 17:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
- The article on Yuri Annenkov notes that he is sometimes credited as Georges Annenkov (e.g. for his work on films). Sometimes he signed his work G. Annenkoff
(The article does not say this though). I recall seeing a hand-written sig spelled this way, but the best I could find is this: - Drawing of Dimitri Tiomkin by Georges Annenkoff Caption: Georges Annenkoff (1889-1974).
- --Jtir 18:55, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
- The article on Yuri Annenkov notes that he is sometimes credited as Georges Annenkov (e.g. for his work on films). Sometimes he signed his work G. Annenkoff
- Lit by the Sun. 1928 A footnote could be added noting these variants (the article already notes the Lanceray variant). I looked at the paintings on Commons, but couldn't read her sig on any, although there appears to be a sig in the lower left corner of "Lit by the Sun. 1928". The sig on this nude, which is not on Commons, appears to have an "i" in it. Is there any way her French passport sig could be made verifiable? Even better would be scan of a handwritten letter showing her sig — that would make a wonderful addition to the article. --Jtir 17:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
- I'm not the author, but I think that Catherine's edits were OK. The difference between "Serebryakova" and "Serebriakova" is not material, although I would always prefer the former. Catherine, you should reflect that spelling rules in English and French differ. There is no reason why the Anglophone project should adopt French transliteration. --Ghirla 15:32, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
- Here is an etching with the handwritten sig G. Annenkoff. --Jtir 19:10, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
- My point actually was that we should at all times use transliteration derived via WP:RUS, unless verifiable evidence can be presented that the subject of the article preferred her name to be spelled differently in English or if a different variant is widely used in English literature. From what I've seen so far, both spellings are used in English, so sticking with WP:RUS makes sense unless the other clause (verifiable evidence) can be satisfied. Any takers?—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 20:22, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, I completely agree. And that is why I was looking at the available paintings for sigs. They do not have enough resolution unfortunately, but that is more of a technical matter. I added a footnote anyway just to show how this matter can be resolved and tagged it with a {{cn}}. The Yuri Annenkov example was intended to show that he changed his name, but the article did not change its name. Of course redirects can also be used for name variants. What do you think about the footnotes in both articles? --Jtir 20:43, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
- I have nothing against footnotes; those are always a good solution, even if only a temporary one. If you can confirm the other spelling variant with sources, I will obviously not object to changing the spelling in the article and moving it to a new title altogether. Thanks for taking time to research this.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 21:00, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
- Yes, I completely agree. And that is why I was looking at the available paintings for sigs. They do not have enough resolution unfortunately, but that is more of a technical matter. I added a footnote anyway just to show how this matter can be resolved and tagged it with a {{cn}}. The Yuri Annenkov example was intended to show that he changed his name, but the article did not change its name. Of course redirects can also be used for name variants. What do you think about the footnotes in both articles? --Jtir 20:43, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
- My point actually was that we should at all times use transliteration derived via WP:RUS, unless verifiable evidence can be presented that the subject of the article preferred her name to be spelled differently in English or if a different variant is widely used in English literature. From what I've seen so far, both spellings are used in English, so sticking with WP:RUS makes sense unless the other clause (verifiable evidence) can be satisfied. Any takers?—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 20:22, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
- Here is an etching with the handwritten sig G. Annenkoff. --Jtir 19:10, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
How did Serebryakova's signature change over her career?
Here are two works that show she signed her name in Cyrillic script.
She emigrated to France in 1924, when she was 40.
How did she sign her works after 1924? --Jtir 22:40, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
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