Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 10:41, 19 February 2018

GizzyCatBella, you are invited on a Misplaced Pages Adventure!

Hi GizzyCatBella!! You're invited: learn how to edit Misplaced Pages in under an hour. I hope to see you there! Ocaasi Play The Misplaced Pages Adventure This message was delivered by HostBot (talk) 17:32, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

September 2015

Hello, and welcome to Misplaced Pages. This is a message letting you know that one or more of your recent edits to 2010 Polish Air Force Tu-154 crash has been undone by an automated computer program called ClueBot NG.

• ClueBot NG makes very few mistakes, but it does happen. If you believe the change you made was constructive, please read about it, report it here, remove this message from your talk page, and then make the edit again.
• For help, take a look at the introduction.
• The following is the log entry regarding this message: 2010 Polish Air Force Tu-154 crash was changed by GizzyCatBella (u) (t) ANN scored at 0.896802 on 2015-09-21T08:36:44+00:00 .

Thank you. ClueBot NG (talk) 08:36, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Removal of sourced information

I hadn't removed any sourced information - I've moved it up, and removed unsourced/irrelevant parts. Feel free to report it. Trasz (talk) 18:30, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Adding new comments

Can you please make sure you add your comments to Talk pages always at the bottom, indented only one ':' more than the preceding comment, instead of adding your comments in the middle of existing ones? Otherwise it quickly becomes impossible to follow the discussion, especially for those readers who are not involved now and will read the whole thread in the future. Thanks. --Deeday-UK (talk) 10:28, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Ok, thanks GizzyCatBella (talk) 10:36, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

You just did it again. --Deeday-UK (talk) 04:05, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

That was a continuation of the same comment, it should stay together. GizzyCatBella (talk) 04:14, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Not according to Misplaced Pages's quidelines on Talk pages: "the latest comment in a thread should be posted in chronological order and not placed above earlier comments", otherwise it creates confusion. For example, the comment currently at the bottom, which starts with "GizzyCatBella – you’re right, and I thank you for the feedback..." refers to an older comment of yours, not to the comment immediately above (which you just moved back out of chronological order) as someone would expect. Not only that: comments placed in the middle of the thread can easily go unnoticed, as most people just look for new comments at the bottom. --Deeday-UK (talk) 11:54, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

Its one and the same the same comment, I can take out time stamp if you find it confusing.GizzyCatBella (talk) 16:56, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

It's not the same comment, it's something additional you said in the discussion almost a day after your previous contribution, while another editor had added a further comment in the meantime. There is really no good reason to mess up the chronological order of comments, but if you want readers to miss your posts because they are added at random places in the discussion, go on and put your comments wherever you like; I won't look for them. --Deeday-UK (talk) 19:13, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

I will post all at once next time, no problem. I will remember about it. Thanks GizzyCatBella (talk) 20:34, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

I have to reiterate that you need to be putting your comments at the bottom of a section, per Deeday-UK (talk · contribs) R9tgokunks ✡ 19:42, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Politics

Yes, I might be wrong about your political motives; you seem to be simply a standard conspiracy theorist; the language you use is typical: 'manipulate public opinion', 'lies', 'cover-up'... Seriously, if you wanted to blow up an aeroplane with explosives, would you really plant the charge in the wing? and how? a jet's wing is pretty much sealed; you can't put anything in it without ripping it open, unless you think of screwing it to the outside hoping that nobody would notice it. Wouldn't you rather put the bomb in the cabin or in the cargo hold?
I cannot recall a single case of aircraft bombing were the explosives was placed in the wings, yet the Smolensk conspirators allegedly managed to do it, and to time the explosion at precisely the moment when the Tupolev overflew a birch tree that then mysteriously broke in half, leaving fragments of the flap system magically embedded in it.
How can anyone normally intelligent consider such reconstruction credible? You really need to stop thinking for yourself and make an act of faith, to accept those ideas. Yes, the Russian investigation was flawed (although not totally flawed); yes, there are aspects of the crash not fully explained (wreckage removal etc), but do you really find explanations like the above one more convincing? Sometimes I just despair of the human kind. --Deeday-UK (talk) 17:14, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Deeday, Im don't think I'm a conspiracy theorist. Im just reporting new facts. As most people in Poland, I simply DON'T KNOW what really happened in Smoleńsk. Personally/honestly, I don't think it was a "Russian plot" to kill Polish elite, but based on the current reports, Im not convinced that they are telling us the truth. At this point, everything is just a hypothesis to me. Until the wreckage, black boxes etc. are returned to Poland and PROPER investigation is conducted (best international and totally independent) this tragedy will remain to be questioned. As you said yourself, MAK report is flawed, I would say its more that flawed, so is Polish governments cover up (theirs report) of its incompetence and mistakes in regards of handling the investigation. GizzyCatBella (talk) 17:39, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

You don't think it was a Russian plot? Then what do you think happened? What is, in your opinion, the most likely explanation of the crash of the Tupolev in Smolensk? I'm asking because the Law & Justice brigade seem hell-bent on proving that it was a plot (no doubt a Russian one), and you seem to give them a lot of credit, certainly more than they deserve, from an objective point of view. --Deeday-UK (talk) 22:07, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

I don't know Deeday, I honestly don't know. If that was a plot I would rather suspect that it was carried out by the Poles themselves, former WSI communist agents. But this is my personal thought and its of course my conspiracy theory you could say. I personally think it was some kind of a freak accident but for sure it didn't happened as its presented to us right now. As it looks to me the Russians are covering up something or just using the whole situation for their own political gains and Polish former government people are covering up their own negligence in the matter. Note that almost a 100 prominent people died, including the president and there were no people in the government, military, intelligence services etc. responsible for it, not even one. A lower ranking scapegoat is being blaimed of negligence, thats it. They gave the whole investigation to the Russians, they didn't even secured the return of the wreckage, black boxes, did't conduct necropsy in Poland, they lied about so many things that the list can go on and on . Have you heard about such things ever in any other plane accident? Unbelievable. Now, why Im giving so much credit to the Law and Justice investigators? These people worked without any help from government whatsoever, they where slandered left and right and still came up with more credible conclusions that official Polish report. I was following it closely and many results really make a lot of sense. Take a closer look at their work you may be surprised. Now the explosions that they claimed happened.. who knows what exploded, maybe a gas tank, maybe a bomb.. as I said before until the wreckage and black boxes are returned to Poland and proper investigations is done, this accident will remain being questioned. GizzyCatBella (talk) 23:17, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

The fact that you consider the conclusions of the L&J commission more credible than the official report is beyond me. Explosions in fuel tanks are extremely rare in aviation, and they typically involve an internal short-circuit (TWA 800) or a lightning strike, of which there isn't any evidence. Is there even any evidence of soot or fire damage on the piece of wing that flew off? I can't see any, in the photos. Also, once you accept that there was a perfectly timed explosion in the wing, how do you explain a broken birch tree with pieces of a Tupolev wing stuck in it? You'll have to accept that the Russians fabricated the evidence (obviously in co-operation with the WSI agents), but when? Before the crash, knowing in advance exactly where the wing would have exploded, or after the crash, in full view of anyone around the crash site? and how? that tree is not cut, it's broken (and well up the trunk, not at the base). Look at it this way: what is the simplest and quickest way to break the top of a tree while leaving embedded in it parts of a flap system? well, take a Tupolev and bash its wing against it. Binienda's impact simulation looks far oversimplified; the model of the wing appears somehow realistic, but modelling the tree as a simple pole, with no branches and their associated mass and snagging effect is going to produce substantially different results from the real thing.

And before all that, why on Earth would ex-WSI agents want to take out the president and a planeload of state authorities? what would they have gained? did they want to do a coup and seize power or something? has any of that happened, in the last five years?

Behind all the political wrangling, Russia's substandard investigation, Poland's embarrassing negligence (bodies mixed-up etc), in the end there is a disappointingly simple truth: all aircraft are in the hands of just one person, the pilot in command, and if that guy screws up at the wrong moment, then it's the end of the line for him and everybody else on board. The list of aircraft that dug a hole in the ground while attempting to land on instruments in marginal conditions is endless, especially within the general aviation, including business jets (this is a perfect example). In fact the operations of a state aircraft like PLF 101 have more in common with biz jet operations than they have with airlines: passengers of high authority (inevitably putting a lot of pressure on pilots), operations from often unfamiliar airports, lack of airline-style Standard Operating Procedures etc. PLF 101 is just another one that sadly joined the list.

Also, hasn't L&J always had a grudge against everything communist and Russian? (granted, the Soviets did terrible things to the Poles, in the past) Then I would be rather suspicious when they come up with these Mission Impossible-style scenarios about communist plots to kill the Polish president. L&J also had a strong political interest in pushing these theories: to bash the evil Russians and, while in opposition, to bash the government and win lots of votes (which seems to have worked). I too would be (mildly) interested in having the wreckage and black boxes examined by independent experts (and I mean the UK AAIB, for example), but I'll be stunned if L&J deliver anything close to that: they will at most assemble a commission from trusted members of the Smolensk conference and produce a rehash of their initial report, I bet.

To demand full clarity about all the gaps in the story is one thing (and I could subscribe to that). To go off on a tangent and make up absurd theories of multiple, perfectly timed explosions with fake evidence manufactured on the spot is a completely different one, and it is just irresponsible. It just takes you further away from reality and into a world full of double agents, sci-fi weapons and secret plots. --Deeday-UK (talk) 13:47, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom Elections 2016: Voting now open!

Hello, GizzyCatBella. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Misplaced Pages arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

Kielce pogrom

Hello, and thank you for your recent edits to Kielce pogrom and other articles. Please note that Misplaced Pages's style manual recommends the use of "straight quotes" (see MOS:STRAIGHT). Changing a reference name from "Intermarium" to “Intermarium", as you did in several places, produces reference errors because the computer doesn't recognize the two names as the same.

Also, please familiarize yourself with MOS:LINK, the rules on what should be linked, especially WP:OVERLINK, the section on what should not be linked. Generally, we link a term on its first mention in an article and not on subsequent mentions. Linking it three times in one paragraph is never appropriate.

Thank you. — Malik Shabazz /_Stalk 00:10, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Stop changing image sizes

because the resulting layouts are very, very bad. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:32, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, I disagree with your evaluation. In my view, they look much better. GizzyCatBella (talk) 03:12, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Repeated references

When you see a reference of the form "<ref name=examplename />" (note the final /), it means that somewhere else in the article is a reference of the form "<ref name=examplename>Exampleauthor, Firstname (date) ''Example title''. New York: Publisher</ref>" Using "<ref name=examplename />" allows the reference to be used anywhere in the article, before or after the defining reference. It's a way of repeating references without having to fill them out in entirety. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:34, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Good to know, thanks Ken GizzyCatBella (talk) 07:13, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

ANI Discussion

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. R9tgokunks ✡ 01:40, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Alert

Please carefully read this information:

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding Eastern Europe, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Template:Z33