Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 16:08, 9 May 2018

Request

Hello. Help improve the article Maureen Wroblewitz. Thanks you very much.27.68.20.150 (talk) 09:52, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Sorry - I do not do fashion models (on Misplaced Pages) all that often.Icewhiz (talk) 09:53, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Properly citing sources

May you please, when you cite sources in edits like this, fill out the whole reference (if that makes sense)? I think I can actually turn this into a GA when most editors stop caring and move on to another current event. Any help like properly citing references is always appreciated.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 15:21, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

I type these in manually and use the ref tag (which is an accepted way for a full citation) - I did see that I omitted the Author(s) in some of them (fixed). What else am I missing?Icewhiz (talk) 15:28, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Difficult to explain. I was corrected on this when I wrote my first GA. Reviewers prefer something like this: <ref>{{cite web (or book)|url= |title= |author= |work (or publisher for books) | date= |accessdate= }}</ref>. Your way "works", but an observant reviewer will request me to standardize citations during the review process.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 16:15, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

I avoid the cite template - and I got an article GAed with straight refs (which per policy are acceptable). Note that the article at the moment (I think!) has quite a few wrong cites (e.g. in which newspapers are cited as a web page - cite web). The cite template is a pain when typing it in manually - it works great if you use one of the citation generators and then copy paste.Icewhiz (talk) 16:17, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

I am not overly worried, but I think you will agree that the article needs to settle on one cite template. I am more concerned with addressing the fragmented writing style all too common with current event articles and striking inessential/outdated material; 1RR and, umm, "emotionally invested" editors tend to slow things down. On top of that, I have not written a GA for a current event, besides the 2017 Sierra Leone landslides so it is a new experience for me.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 16:32, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

By the way, I think we need a more serious discussion on the casualties list. We need to either put it in a chart or remove it entirely (I prefer the latter). I will never be able to pass a review in its current condition.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 16:36, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

I generally think casualty lists add little (above a certain number). As for citation templates - probably more than half of the refs will change in the next week - I do not think this will be stable. I am not sure a current event can really shoot for GA - usually that gets done after things settle down a bit - when the article is still in flux it is difficult to review any stable version and subsequent events written into the article can throw you out of GA. Probably best to GA a couple of weeks after things settled down. I strongly prefer raw refs - but I never battle over ref style (well, ok, I did once object when someone modded lots of refs of an article I wrote mostly by myself and changed all the refnames I remembered (and were descriptive) to :0, :1, .... While at the same time cn-tagging alt. names in a footnote (which I fixed by reffing) ), MOS style points, British/American, grammar/tense - if any of these get changed I happily live with the new ones.Icewhiz (talk) 18:25, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Broken link

Your edit broke a link to one of the sources. Please amend this when you have the chance. Thanks.TheGracefulSlick (talk) 18:41, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

Yikes! Fixed. There is a bot that rescues these every few hours, but I should've checked the reflist.Icewhiz (talk) 18:51, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

2018 Gaza border protests

Sorry, Icewhiz, but this is an odd comment: well perhaps they've been shooting the assailants prior to them getting close enough to mortally harm the IDF soldiers. I have eyes and I can see the videos of people being shot at while running away from the fence for myself. Please temper your IDF advocacy. --K.e.coffman (talk) 19:26, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Please cease making personal attacks. I am advocating for no one. As for videos - they are not a RS, and issues with videos in this area abound. In the context of current events: "The IDF warned Hamas published some of the videos "while others are edited or completely fabricated."The IDF also released their own videos of what they say shows various attempts at sabotage." Per . As for the hurling of firebombs and explosives - I quoted several RS.Icewhiz (talk) 20:06, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

I agree that my heading was a bit uncalled for; I modified it to refer to the article instead. Still, I don't believe it's a personal attack to point out an editor's own comments, as I did on the article's Talk page and in this post. You were offering your own perspective on the matter (...well perhaps they've been shooting...), and I responded with same.

Still, I'm genuinely curious about your position on I/P area vs Poland's attempts at historical revisionism via the recent legislation. If you can (correctly) distinguish between historical scholarship and state-sanctioned propaganda, why not apply the same scrutiny to IDF's statements and Israel's positions? I've read a few books on WW2 propaganda and developed a number of articles on the topic, so this subject area is interesting to me. I see same 'battles of the words' in I/P area, vis a vis Wehrmacht's war-time propaganda, Poland's attempts to protect its name and historical legacy, etc... That's the point-of-view I'm coming from.

Please accept my apology for the heading which was insufficiently subtle; I've changed it now. --K.e.coffman (talk) 02:11, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

I was replying to uncalled for OR on the lack of IDF casulties to attacks reported in RS with a refutation by raising a possibility. I do apply the same level of scrutiny. As for this month's events - the results were forseeable for all invovled, and if you want to look at things critically - look at who has actually been doing the legwork - organizing transport and levying personnel.Icewhiz (talk) 03:53, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

I award you TWO BARNSTARS

		The Guidance Barnstar
		For finding those entries on the Minerva in the first place 💵Money💵emoji💵 15:09, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

		The Civility Barnstar
		And for then helping my stupid ass out by merging the Minerva information to the list seemingly in a couple of seconds (My mistake was that I missed the two curly brackets at the end) 💵Money💵emoji💵 15:09, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

ANI/April 2018

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you (Here ----->) may have been involved. 2A01:110F:4505:DC00:D01E:3C0D:91FA:2E5F (talk) 08:31, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Help updating FASB

Hey Icewhiz, I saw you're a member of WP:FINANCE and I was wondering if you had the time or interest in helping review a new version of the article for Financial Accounting Standards Board. I'm proposing a rather large-scale overhaul of the content as well as a number of additions, as the current article is rather disorganized and deficient of quality information. I'm looking for as much feedback and collaboration as I can find in making sure it's compliant with Misplaced Pages standards. I'd really appreciate it if you have the time to take a look, even if it's just a small part of it.--FacultiesIntact (talk) 19:20, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

I am on the finance side of the accounting/finance divide (though I do consume accounting reports) - so this is less my cup of tea, and I am mainly editing via tablet (good for light duty editing, but for heavy stuff I want my PC) until next Monday. Try poking me next week if no one more relevant picks this up. I did take a peek - you do have several unreferenced paragraphs (which seem to br new text) - that obviously needs to be fixed. Some of your section titles are overly long e.g. "FASB resets its agenda, incorporates post-implementation review and private company voice". There is also an over emohasis on the history of the organizatiin (and I will note that moet of what appears under "Accounting Standards" is also historyish). Icewhiz (talk) 20:09, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback! I agree that some of the titles are over-long, and I've cut the one you mentioned specifically down considerably. I'll admit that neither finance nor accounting are my strong suits, and most of the work I do tends to have a historical focus. I haven't heard back from anyone else I've reached out to yet. Would you be open to collaborating on cleaning up this draft? I'm happy to do additional research where you might think it's currently lacking. My concern is that I'm too close to the content to really be able to see what needs refining.--FacultiesIntact (talk) 21:46, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

Let's move this over to Talk:Financial Accounting Standards Board where I responded + the sandboxed article.Icewhiz (talk) 05:30, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Hello little info for your future sarsour edits

As you have seen Sarsour has gotten herself into "intersectional" politics. So much so that she is now attacking influential American imams. She called Hamza Yusuf the founder of the First Islamic university in the US a white supremacist on stage at RIS 3 years ago, helped lead a effort to silence Imam Zaid Shakir after he criticized her embracing of race base left wing identity politics and the language it brings. Was called out by multiple Imams for leading an effort to brand Muslims 4 Liberty founder, and first Muslim to run for the VP nomination in a political, party Imam Will Coley as a white supremacist and a nazi for a fundraiser that's stated purpose was to emulate the spirit of Saluhadin, and do good for those who despise you. She finds herself at the head of a movement meant to ostracize and drive out all white muslims from the faith, or at least marginalize them to subservient figures. Imams of color who call it out are immediately silenced and called coon. Just some things i thought you might enjoy researching for your next edit on her article, all of this is easily found in a google search. Look up "my rahma does not extend to white supremacists", then the sermons "language of love and community" and "Imam zaid destroys feminism" and "Linda calls humza yusuf racist" (a man who walked with MLK) which were sermons in reaction to Linda and her crowd's new ideology, and religion. Muslims4Justice (talk) 15:46, 19 April 2018 (UTC) a concerned muslim who fears sees the damage her influence has on the muslim community.

It's quite astounding what you just did there

I've been pushing this change for a month and a half, and you just slipped it in the backdoor. I know most of them didn't bother reading the sources, I know most of them didn't really follow the discussion, and this... subtle solution of yours is quite impressive. François Robere (talk) 15:40, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

If you post walls of text, and many sources, very few will read it all. The discussion devolved into walls of text between you and the IP. Slatersteven stepped in to mediate, the way to move things in the correct direction is to compromise with the mediator - who probably (like most everyone else involved) did not read the walls of text...Icewhiz (talk) 15:44, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

@François Robere: you should not, however, posted in the TP how this proves you righr (even if it does) - that elicits pushback. The correct TP post would have beeb a simple support, perhaps grudgingly in the spirit of compromise... I suggest you undo your posts and do that instead - you want to deescalate, not escalate.Icewhiz (talk) 15:53, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

You did more than just compromise - you committed first. It was very clever.

I know they don't. The reason it evolved in that way is because "short" quotes didn't work - she just ignored them and kept introducing more and more (and more) sources that supposedly supported her, all the while accusing me of "cherry picking", and none of the others picked it up. It's shocking but not surprising how Misplaced Pages dumbs down the discussion - these "walls of text", shorter than the average newspaper column, are barely sufficient in a field that has literally seen thousands of books written on every possible aspect, and even those are too long for some? How much lower can this discussion get?

Yeah, I apologize. I know it was the wrong "move", but... well, this issue was by far my longest and most frustrating "Wiki war", and it's not even that complicated - it's only the stubbornness of that one editor, and the apathy of the other editors and admins (and this naiveté of one of them - "if it's wrong, others will fix it"... yeah, I'm sure...) that made it that difficult. Then these twists - the mediator producing his own sources (), and you managing to get everyone to agree - I wanted to set the record straight, and I counted on them not turning back after having already agreed on the phrase.

I'm not sure why, but these POV-directed edits tend to go hand in hand with poor phrasing, resulting in an overall poorly written text. I think I'll take a break from that article and go edit something less contentious, like the article on Grabowski. François Robere (talk) 16:53, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Grabowski should not be contentious. But the article is. Sources on his Canadian history work, family, and other non-Holocaust details would do the article good. Note his group made a major new release in the field - but coverage at the moment is mainly in Polish (there was some pre release info in English interviews) - I am holding off on adding this until there are English sources, preferably in peer reviewd sources - which I am sure will materialize soon.Icewhiz (talk) 17:03, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

I know. I saw the PR on their site a month ago, but haven't yet seen the work itself.

I noticed a short discussion upstairs on citation templates. I'm sure you're aware of ProveIt, and Zotero can be configured to format citations in Wikicode (or any other format) on drag-and-drop. Coupled with a browser plugin it makes citation handling much easier, and reduces the need for manual input to a minimum. François Robere (talk) 19:12, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

I might try that, though typing them with refs is pretty quick.Icewhiz (talk) 19:15, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Your comment at WP:AE

Regarding your comment concerning NMMNG's appeal, WP:ONUS applies to "mainspace" (i.e., Misplaced Pages articles), not to talk pages and other parts of Misplaced Pages. I don't have an opinion one way or the other about the disputed material, but I thought you should know about WP:ONUS. — MShabazz /_Stalk 10:47, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

Noted. Thanks. This "FAQ" is sort of "stuck in the middle" - it presumes to be authoritative - but it is in talk space. Edits on it resemble main-space (WP:TPO obviously doesn't apply).Icewhiz (talk) 10:51, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

I'll note - all this fuss is over a FAQ - this was a total waste of time (at least for me) - I tried to convince them all to cut it out as being off-topic - but then got sucked into actually providing sources for this rather (POV warning) silly argument about historical pretexts.Icewhiz (talk) 11:09, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

Thanks!

		The Israeli Barnstar of National Merit
		All your help on Israel-related articles does not go unnoticed! Waddie96 (talk) 10:18, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

BLP DS Alert

Please carefully read this information:

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Template:Z33

Note, this applies to talk pages as well. Poeticbent talk 03:06, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

A tad WP:POINTy to copy my DS alert to you - but thank you. Regarding Chodakiewicz, what I wrote may be sourced to - DID A POLISH FAR RIGHT ACTIVIST HELP DONALD TRUMP WRITE HIS SPEECH IN WARSAW?, Newsweek (among other RSes). I shall also note that WP:RS is policy - using WP:SELFPUBLISHED (or per your retort some weren't published - WP:USERGENERATED) for sourcing is a clear no-go - particularly when they are hardly cited by others (With one of the very few cites being Chodakiewicz in his Intermarium - of which one reviewer in a peer reviewed journal wrote - "there are conspiracies everywhere in this book, but the author offers no names, no institutions, no objectives, and no strategies"). We should be using top-notch sourcing for World War 2 history - not self published books by Mark Paul (possibly a nom de plume) or Ewa Kurek (Poland stops ceremony for author accused of anti-Semitism (AP) or How Ewa Kurek, the Favorite Historian of the Polish Far Right, Promotes Her Distorted Account of the Holocaust (Tablet)) - who "has claimed that Jews had fun in the ghettos during the German occupation of Poland during World War II". Promoting such WP:FRINGE non-RS sources on Misplaced Pages is a serious matter.Icewhiz (talk) 05:28, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

ARE

Hi, please be informed of this GizzyCatBella (talk) 04:55, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Defender of the Wiki Barnstar
	For having the fortitude and scholarly expertise to defend articles on musty, ancient events from extremist historical revisionism and its attempts impose a warped narrative of the history of Poland. E.M.Gregory (talk) 11:29, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Alert

I know you are aware of this but I couldn't find any record of you being properly informed about it in the past. So here you go, now it is official for easy reference. GizzyCatBella (talk) 16:08, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Please carefully read this information:

The Arbitration Committee has authorized discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding Eastern Europe, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Template:Z33