Talk:The Holocaust in Poland: Difference between revisions

Browse history interactively ← Previous edit Next edit →Content deleted Content addedVisual WikitextInline

Revision as of 22:09, 9 May 2018 editFrançois Robere (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users18,758 edits →2010 allegations ← Previous edit		Revision as of 12:25, 10 May 2018 edit undoIcewhiz (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users38,036 edits →2010 allegations Next edit →
Line 148:		Line 148:
	{{od}} I hope, we all understand what is really going on here. The above attacks are NOT on any one historian but on Holocaust history per se. We have a two-prong ] attempting to erase some facts from public memory (i.e. every single instance of Jewish World War II complicity in the mistreatment of others). According to this ]'s own perpetual ], the only sure way to do this is by shooting the messenger. — Let me explain. In February 2018 Polish parliament passed the so-called Holocaust bill. The international outrage was accompanied by the media frenzy. Some writers began throwing tantrums, and saying dumb things. Outright distortions of history in the papers and personal tripping became the new norm, biased samples abound! Mind you, I don't have a problem accepting carefully controlled omissions from some Misplaced Pages entries, but not like THIS. Icewhiz/Robere ] went on a rampage, slashing and burning like there was no tomorrow, deleting up to 50% of some articles, and staging libelous attacks on Polish historians. This is blunt manipulation of long-established Misplaced Pages principles; NOT ACCEPTABLE by any behavioral standards. But, is there anybody listening? ''']''' ] 21:53, 9 May 2018 (UTC)		{{od}} I hope, we all understand what is really going on here. The above attacks are NOT on any one historian but on Holocaust history per se. We have a two-prong ] attempting to erase some facts from public memory (i.e. every single instance of Jewish World War II complicity in the mistreatment of others). According to this ]'s own perpetual ], the only sure way to do this is by shooting the messenger. — Let me explain. In February 2018 Polish parliament passed the so-called Holocaust bill. The international outrage was accompanied by the media frenzy. Some writers began throwing tantrums, and saying dumb things. Outright distortions of history in the papers and personal tripping became the new norm, biased samples abound! Mind you, I don't have a problem accepting carefully controlled omissions from some Misplaced Pages entries, but not like THIS. Icewhiz/Robere ] went on a rampage, slashing and burning like there was no tomorrow, deleting up to 50% of some articles, and staging libelous attacks on Polish historians. This is blunt manipulation of long-established Misplaced Pages principles; NOT ACCEPTABLE by any behavioral standards. But, is there anybody listening? ''']''' ] 21:53, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
	: ] would advise you this is a ], and you should be wary as the page is subject to DS. I would further advise that you avoid ] attacks against other editors, both for reasons of civility as well as ANI and SPI's unwillingness to accomodate these aggressions in the past. Do you have anything on the question of Mark Paul's credibility? ] (]) 22:09, 9 May 2018 (UTC)		: ] would advise you this is a ], and you should be wary as the page is subject to DS. I would further advise that you avoid ] attacks against other editors, both for reasons of civility as well as ANI and SPI's unwillingness to accomodate these aggressions in the past. Do you have anything on the question of Mark Paul's credibility? ] (]) 22:09, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
			: {{ping\|Poeticbent}} In general - cleaning up Misplaced Pages from ] theories from ] authors is not a "slash and burn" campaign. Poorly crafted articles, with outright hoax or extremist material do Misplaced Pages great harm. As for Paul, he makes his own POV clear in the following passage: (from NEIGHBOURS -On the Eve of the Holocaust, 2017 version)
			:<blockquote>"While the gathering of accounts is still in its infancy, like many aspects of wartime Polish-Jewish relations, a fairly clear outline emerges of some '''sordid and shameful aspects of the conduct of Jews vis-à-vis their Polish neighbours under Soviet rule'''. It is an immensely important story that has '''never before been told''' and one that redefines the history of wartime Polish-Jewish relations. There is overwhelming evidence that '''Jews played an important''', at times '''pivotal''' role, in '''arresting''' hundreds of Polish officers and officials in the aftermath of the September 1939 campaign and in '''deporting''' thousands of Poles to the Gulag. '''Collaboration in the destruction of the Polish state''', and in the '''killing''' of its officials and military, '''constituted de facto collaboration with Nazi Germany, with which the Soviet Union shared a common, criminal purpose and agenda in 1939–1945.''' As such, it is an integral and important aspect of the study of wartime collaboration and one of the most important studies of Polish-Jewish relations to be published in decades. '''With the publication of Neighbours on the Eve of the Holocaust, the history of Polish-Jewish relations during the Second World War can never again revert to the simplistic patterns of the past, which focused exclusively on Polish conduct in general and on the victimization of the Jews.'''"</blockquote> (boding not in the original, page 14 of the 2017 version)
			: Mark Paul's makes several things clear in this passage regarding his own views and acceptance of them:
			:# Jews collaborated with Soviets, and de-facto (by extension) with Nazi Germany, who per Paul "shared a common, criminal purpose and agenda in 1939–1945" with Nazi Germany.
			:# Paul is recounting an untold story, which has never before been published.
			:# Paul acknowledges that mainstream scholarship has "focused exclusively on Polish conduct in general and on the victimization of the Jews".
			: It would seem however, that the publishing by Paul is ], and Paul's identity remains unknown (all we know is his connection to KPK). Paul was responding to ] ''Neighbors: The destruction of the Jewish community in Jedwabne, Poland'' which is widely regarded as one of the groundbreaking works in Holocaust history and per Google scholar has been cited some 717 times by other authors - a definitive work. Paul's document, on the other hand, has (considering it is there - it probably was cited once somewhere - perhaps they filtered out cites that they eventually flagged as ]/] in Google). It would seem Paul's story - which (it seems there are multiple extant versions of this document in existence - I cited the 2017 version above, but there are many versions in between) - remains untold. Beyond the ] issue, per ] we should reflect this on Misplaced Pages - leaving it untold here as well.] (]) 12:25, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

	== Page-level arbitration restrictions ==		== Page-level arbitration restrictions ==

Revision as of 12:25, 10 May 2018

This article has not yet been rated on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: