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Capitals00

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Capitals00

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

JosephusOfJerusalem (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 07:14, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Capitals00 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/India-Pakistan#Standard_discretionary_sanctions:

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. ″You can keep the wikilawyering nonsense with yourself″ WP:PERSONALATTACK
2. ″Making up nonsense would result in sanctions against you. You know that NadirAli has WP:CIR issues, just like you do″ WP:PERSONALATTACK.
3. ″Looks like he told you to come here and misrepresent the entire issue for him.″ He is casting WP:ASPERSIONS on a senior editor in good standing Samee.
4. ″Your WP:CIR issues are not even limited to this. You had exhibited similar incompetence on entire Sino-Indian conflicts.″ Rudeness and incompetence accusations during content disputes with editor The Discoverer.
5. ″Given you have been a totally disruptive editor from the get-go″ More bad-faith accusations in content disputes. Also a WP:PERSONALATTACK.
6. ″Misrepresenting Indian position when you believe it will help you pushing your POV,″ Bad-faith accusations.
7. ″so why you are engaging in this disruption now? You have issues with WP:CIR and WP:IDHT and that's the only issue″ More display of bad faith and accusations in content disputes.
8. ″now it is being followed by your typical WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT behavior and repeating same boring refuted arguments.″ More accusations and personal attacks.
9. ″Mar4d Stop engaging in this usual IDHT″ Same as above.
10. ″I was only refuting your senseless excuses for denying Indian victory″ Clear WP:TENDENTIOUS attitude and WP:PERSONALATTACK.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. The block log shows a history of blocks for edit war, disruptive and tendentious editing.

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see )

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

This user has a tradition of accusing any editors he has disagreements with to be ″incompetent″, abusing WP:IDHT in content disputes and general incivility. There's a lot of bad-faith comments and ad hominem personal attacks coming from him. The environment this user is creating throughout the project, regardless of topic area, is unhealthy for Misplaced Pages editing. The block log shows that this historic behaviour is not improving. Which is why I think a very long block is in order. I am going to invite administrator Sandstein who dealt with a similar case with similar users to take a survey of these cases. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 07:14, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Response to Capitals00 by JosephusOfJerusalem

Well lets see your defense case. It has not yet been decided by the administrators at Copyright problems/2018 May 10 that there have definitely been copyright violations yet your WP:PERSONALATTACKs and repetitive uncivil accusations of incompetence against NadirAli and SheriffIsInTown are unceasing and relentless. So you were already skating on thin ice there. Your response also does not address the uncalled for WP:ASPERSIONS you cast on Samee. This comment is nowhere near the level of WP:PERSONALATTACK the way your comment is in diff 8. WP:BRD here is no justification for this rude (diff 4) vitriolic accusation of incompetence by you on The Discoverer's talkpage. As for Talk:Siachen conflict it does not matter what consensus is or not until it has been reached. You were making accusations of incompetence and generally incivil replies while discussion was ongoing.

Now for your offense case, which is a classic deraiment which cannot justify your misconduct (read WP:NOTTHEM) lets break it down. Going by this user's edit history it is definitely a sleeper account, last active in 2016, then showed up to do a revert and vitriolic talkpost before disappearing and not responding ever again on Talk:Princely state despite the disruption caused. This comment on my talkpage was not a WP:PERSONALATTACK, not least considering that in that context the discussion was initiated by a spurious accusation against me of making ″deceptive pov edits″ (a reference to this plain verifiable edit which has no POV). This edit is an entirely verifiable edit which you wrongly call ″gossip″. The rest of your diffs about me are either before Bishonen's advice or they are a misrepresentation of my messages of appeal to administrators to stop edit wars. The latter is not WP:CANVASSING.

Again read WP:NOTTHEM. Your misconduct stands unjustified. The evidence concerning you is definitely more extensive than 10 diffs if I really put my mind to collecting them. An example can be your revert of a WP:STATUSQUO version of History of Gilgit Baltistan with a deceptive edit summary of WP:BRD and again here just today after Mar4d was kind enough to restore the WP:STATUSQUO. It is also worth noting you had no prior or subsequent participation at Talk:Princely state despite the false use of WP:BRD in your edit summary.

Response to Raymond3023 by JosephusOfJerusalem

You have not addressed any of Capitals00's misconduct. Rather you have engaged in WP:IDHT by repeating Capitals00's arguments which I have already quashed here.

Perhaps it is natural you will defend Capitals00 and D4iNa4 given your history of coordination with them. I point to the evidence of WP:TAGTEAM here

1. See Raymond3023/Capitals00 coordination
2. See D4iNa4/Raymond3023 .
3. The same voting is also more evidence.. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 10:46, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Response to Power~enwiki by JosephusOfJerusalem

This is a critical analysis of your comment, here. You claim ″The Balochistan one makes nobody look good; perhaps those diffs should be ignored.″ I think you are mistakenly making a false equivalence and making a broad generalisation by unfairly painting everyone with the same brush without due regard to the behavioural facts.

Lets take a look at what happened. The first reply was from Samee, the second was from me. There were no personal attacks or direct comments about specific editors by either of us. According to Dennis Brown a bit of minor push and shove is okay. Now here is Capitals00's reply to both of us. It is certainly not a minor push and shove. Capitals00 cast WP:ASPERSIONS on Samee, ″Looks like he told you to come here and misrepresent the entire issue for him.″ He also attacked me directly and personally without provocation, ″Making up nonsense would result in sanctions against you. You know that NadirAli has WP:CIR issues, just like you do.″ Now lets take a look at my reply. Can you see any WP:PA in my recitation of the guidelines? Compare this with Capitals00's next response, ″You can keep the wikilawyering nonsense with yourself.″

Now lets get to the Capitals00-SheriffIsInTown exchange. This is SheriffIsInTown's comment with no WP:PA. This is Capitals00's reply, ″I believe though that you have no issue with them since your actual motive is to defend NadirAli, no matter what you have to say.″ SheriffIsInTown replied again, with no WP:PA to which Capitals00 answered with this. The next part of the chat is not bad . It continues until Capitals00 resumes the personal attacks, disruption accusations and CIR taunts on SheriffIsInTown, ″In place of whinning over these reports ...Seems like you don't even know what is a copyright given your CIR issue...Stop wishing that editors should allow you and NadirAli disrupt as much as you want.″

Going through this history shows that the problem is coming only from Capitals00's ″side″ here. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 03:48, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

power~enwiki: The ″retaliatory″ suggestion was in response not to the copyright violation claim, which is itself yet to be decided, but a response to this block demand in Capitals00's comment, ″I would urge admin to block him″. I do not believe there is an equivalence between the users there. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 04:18, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

power~enwiki: This ″wiki-lawyering″ can not justify this attack, nor this earlier one. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 04:21, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Response to Justlettersandnumbers

Can you point out the diffs of ″combative behaviour″? I have already explained in length here, with detailed explanation of diffs, that the problems are entirely one-sided. I agree with SheriffIsInTown's statement that the behavioural problems of a few editors are being unfairly thought of as a problem from everyone. There is no need to create a false equivalence between everyone for the bad actions of a few. Justice does not mean collective punishment, it means identifying the culprit, this is not a Catholic high school where the whole class gets lunch detention because of a few naughty students. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 11:54, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Response to Vanamonde93 by JosephusOfJerusalem

I don't think its appropriate for you to comment here because you are involved in much of where Capitals00 is and you are also quite evidently friendly with and defensive of Kautilya3. The user you are protecting calls simple edits such as these "deceptive POV edits" and calls my verifiable editing "smearing." He also thinks these simple and verifiable edits are some sort of game. This is an exhibition of battleground behaviour. And shortly after making an incorrect equivalence between me and Capitalsoo's blatant misconduct to ask that I also be blocked with Capitals00, he decides to revert a more than week old edit of mine on a page where both of us had been active and where he had not reverted me before now, since I made the edit. This opportune timing to revert me after commenting against me is also a textbook example of his WP:BATTLEGROUND behaviour. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 21:43, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Vanamonde93, if you think I am not innocent why not prove it with diffs? As I said you are involved. You have long associations with Kautilya3. Its not right for you to comment here. The issue of involved administrators has been brought up on AE before. And if you seriously want to evaluate everyone's behaviour look at this. After I created this section on Talk:Exodus of Kashmiri Hindus Kautilya3 left this notice on my talkpage. He accused me of "targeting editors" just because I opened sections with user names in the headings. What's remarkable is that he does that himself, but that is not targeting editors? Just last month he created a section on Talk:1947 Jammu massacres with a heading calling my edits "Poor quality edits". He also accused me then and there of making "POV edits" and fighting "silly games" because of this verifiable edit. Evidently, when I see other TPs, I am not the only user having this issue of double standards with him. Sandstein I would encourage you to look at the evidence I have given about Kautilya3 here. I belive they are very much a net negative for the encyclopedia. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 06:05, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

@GoldenRing: I don't think what has been given attention to is that this is a misconduct issue more than anything else, which spans more than the India-Pakistan topic area. This diff is a case in point. Topic bans won't be of any help in breaking the personal rudeness and incivility impasse, which is the main concern of my report. It will just continue in other topic areas. This issue can only be dealt with by interaction bans. That way the rudeness can be dealt with. I don't think topic bans are necessary at this point. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 12:39, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

@GoldenRing: You just added me to the list. Can you provide the diff you are basing such a decision on? As in, where have I shown incivility that warrants such an idea? JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 12:50, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Collective treatment (punishment) is not the answer which will mete out justice. If justice is to be done the admins need to evaluate each user ;;individually. If the admins feel they don't have the time to do individual evaluations I will withdraw this case. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 13:54, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Response to GoldenRing by JosephusOfJerusalem

You have cited these three diffs as ″evidence″ of my misconduct. I made no personal attack here, I was just making a general comment about the nature of the indefinite block request that it seemed like a disproportionate retaliatory request because of NadirAli's involvement in a SPI against Capitals00 in the recent past. According to Dennis Brown a bit of minor push and shove is okay. What is exactly wrong in my recitation of Misplaced Pages guidelines here? It was the most civil response I could give to this inflammatory comment. I deserve marks for keeping my cool in the face of such heat, not punishment. And this diff is by no means a misconduct because WP:RPA entitles any editor to remove personal attacks. My AfD nomination here is by no means actionable. It is an article with only two references, one of them called the "News Laundry". This is also a civil reply considering the heat I was up against. I heeded Bishonen's advice and I did not make any more comments like that after his message on my talkpage. And how is my participation here battleground mentality? I have faced problems with some users' conduct and thats all I wanted dealt with. And why don't you look at Kautilya3 's actions? He calls simple edits such as these "deceptive POV edits" and calls my verifiable editing "smearing." He also thinks these simple and verifiable edits are some sort of game. Isn't this an exhibition of battleground behaviour? And look at this. After I created this section on Talk:Exodus of Kashmiri Hindus Kautilya3 left this notice on my talkpage. He accused me of "targeting editors" just because I opened sections with user names in the headings. What's remarkable is that he does that himself, but that is not targeting editors? Just last month he created a section on Talk:1947 Jammu massacres with a heading calling my edits "Poor quality edits". He also accused me then and there of making "POV edits" and fighting "silly games" because of this verifiable edit. Evidently, when I see other TPs, I am not the only user having this issue of double standards with him. You should also consider what I have to face and the civility I have maintained in spite of all this. JosephusOfJerusalem (talk) 20:43, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Discussion concerning Capitals00

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Capitals00

Looks like JosephusOfJerusalem is back to his usual modus operandi by filing frivolous report on this board to get rid of his opponents like he has also done before.

10 diffs from last 4 months is all he got? When you are wasting time of majority of editors by going against consensus and engaging in disruption, you just can't expect other editors not to cite WP:CIR and WP:IDHT or react. To reply all those cherrypicked diffs, it is a mere reaction when you see hoards of disruption by editors engaging in violations of WP:OR(diff 8), WP:COPYVIO(diff 5), WP:BRD,(diff 4) WP:NPA/WP:IDHT(diff 1),(diff 2), (diff 3), (diff 6 and diff 7), (diff 9), (diff 10). Citing WP:CIR is not a personal attack, because that page is "an explanatory supplement to the disruptive editing guideline" per community consensus. Much of the diffs here comes from Talk:Siachen conflict where consensus was to include what I supported. Why you can't show diffs where I was going against consensus or I had been problematic and had no consensus for edits?

JosephusOfJerusalem has always engaged in personal attacks:-

• "page was quite stable until 30 April when a sleeper account" (referring a long term editor as "sleeper")
• "People who have battles to fight and socks in contact will have the L-RD"
• "removing POV warrior's bad faith message"
• "removing threats from the POV warriors"
• "bad faith warning by a disruptive editor on the verge of being blocked"

And rest of the diffs of this report and below one comes from Misplaced Pages:Copyright problems/2018 May 10, where JosephusOfJersualem has defended copyright violation by falsely claiming that "I could not find any copyright violations". Now that is clear evidence of WP:CIR and WP:DE, and he also attempted to selectively censor a comment that he didn't liked. Clearly he has competence issues and thinks that it is a personal attack if WP:CIR has been cited to him, despite his defense of copyrights violation and clear WP:IDHT.

In a separate incident from February 2018, he was arguing against 4 editors and alleging of them failure of "WP:LISTEN" and engagement in "WP:CANVASSING", ""WP:DISRUPTION". It shows that he resorts to falsely allege others of misconduct only because he is not getting consensus for his POV.

He had been also warned by Bishonen for this problematic editing. However there has been no improvement and the attitude of this editor has only worsened. Furthermore, Bishonen had asked him if "there anything you'd like to share about any previous account/s?" given he registered on 18 October 2017 and has been too professed when it comes to WP:GAMING. JosephusOfJerusalem suspiciously removed that message.

I would request an indefinite topic ban on JosephusOfJerusalem per evidence above as well as for the following:-

• WP:EDITWAR: edit warring on Jawaharlal Nehru by promoting controversial gossips, despite having no support for his problematic edits. Edit warring on Indian nationalism.
• WP:CANVASS: Canvassed multiple editors to help him in his edit war by restoring his preferred version.
• WP:CIR: Defending copyright violations as noted above. Misrepresentation of "WP:STATUSQUO on talk pages, by restoring new edits that have no consensus.
• WP:BATTLEGROUND: Usually prefers to allege others of bad faith,, create frivolous AfD of notable subject, cites unrelated policies to derail discussion. Capitals00 (talk) 08:20, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

@GoldenRing: As the saying goes, there is no fire without smoke. Since sanctions are based on actual evidence of disruption, we need to check that who is really making problematic edits and helping most in creating unnecessary problems for further ruining the collaborative environment despite past sanctions and warnings. Razer2115 has provided some evidence for SheriffIsInTown and I have already provided evidence against JosephusOfJerusalem above. My analysis about others concerning their very recent disruption is as follow:-

• NadirAli: 3 reverts in 38 minutes on Princely state,, restored copyvio and failure to admit copyright violations, generalization of sources by nationality, hostile behavior, rehashing a rejected SPI. (WP:HARASS).

• NadirAli was site-banned by ArbCom and topic banned by ArbCom upon return from India, Pakistan and Afghanistan. He is currently topic banned from image uploads, was blocked in relation to WP:ARBIPA as recently as June 2017, and has been brought to ARE multiple times during last year and already had enough warnings.

• TripWire: edit warring against consensus on Siachen conflict, copyright violation, IDHT and personal attacks.

• In 2015, he was topic banned for 6 months from Pakistan politics and Pakistani-Indian conflicts. In 2016, he was topic banned from Balochistan articles for 3 months and put under a "casting aspersions" restriction" along with Kautilya3. On February 2018, he was blocked for violating subject restrictions and was warned by Dennis Brown that "likely a topic ban will be used next".

• Mar4d: edit warring on 2016 Indian Line of Control strike, India–Pakistan border skirmishes (2016–present), Sindhudesh, misrepresentation of sources, repeated IDHT, rehashing a rejected SPI (WP:HARASS). (closed by Bbb23) (comment removed by Bbb23)

• He was never sanctioned before in relations to WP:ARBIPA. Though he has been most disruptive as per the evidence.

If these editors had been sanctioned earlier, I don't think any of these problems would be arising to this extent. I believe that NadirAli and TripWire are the only candidates that deserves to be topic banned because it has been already proven that previous topic bans on their accounts have not worked. I am 100% hopeful that things will surely improve without having these two editors in this area.

The language that I have used had to be a lot better, about which I agree. But so far no evidence of problematic article editing has provided for me and D4iNa4, and we have not engaged in edit warring, IDHT, OR, COPYVIO, or any other forms of WP:DE. MapSGV has not a participated in any of the disputes that you have linked, why you have proposed a ban on him?

I am watching SPI that concerns JosephusOfJerusalem though his above filibustering is difficult to follow. I guess a topic ban on him is not really going to hurt. As for SheriffIsInTown and Mar4d, I believe that they would carefully read this complaint and indeed avoid the actions that resulted the situation. Capitals00 (talk) 13:28, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Raymond3023

Ironic to see an offensive editor, editing with a battleground mentality, often assuming bad faith and demonstrating significant competence issues is talking about "civility".

These two reports are result of the failure of JosephusOfJerusalem to get his preferred non-consensus version of Princely state protected after trying hard for it.

It is fair to say that JOJ is a case of WP:CIR and probably WP:NOTHERE, since he is mostly engaging in ethnic POV battles, similar to "Towns Hill" (a banned sockmaster).

JOJ's failure to understand copyrights, STATUSQUO, and misrepresentation other relevant policies while mass canvassing other editors with the hopes that he would receive some support for his frivolous report shows that having him topic banned or blocked indefinitely would be best for us. Raymond3023 (talk) 10:30, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by MBlaze Lightning

This is frivolous complaint; there is nothing in the diffs which would even remotely constitute "personal attacks". Also, it is worth mentioning that the majority of the diffs in question are months old—some of them dates back to February, 20 i.e. they are stale. Things get heated up in these subjects, especially when you are dealing with clear WP:OR, WP:COPYVIO, WP:NPA, WP:IDHT, but there is nothing sanctionable.

JosephusOfJerusalem comments demonstrates a glaring lack of understanding of the very policies that he citing, not to mention his gross battleground mentality as is evident from his comments here and elsewhere. I also agree with the above comments that JosephusOfJerusalem is desperately trying to get the editors with an opposite POV topic banned so that he could push his POV in peace. And not long ago, JosephusOfJerusalem has filed a similar frivolous report against another established editor.

If JosephusOfJerusalem perceives comments like, "You can keep the wikilawyering nonsense with yourself" as "WP:PERSONALATTACK", then he's clearly demonstrating incompetency. He does not even know when to indent and when to outdent his comments, so he should not be astonished when an established editor points him to WP:CIR.

What's more striking is that these filings are strongly reminiscent of filings of socks of Faizan/Towns Hill, in particular Sardeeph (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) who used to file similar spurious reports against me and Kautilya3 in order to get them blocked by citing similar trivial or non-violations. Sardeeph was eventually blocked by Boing! said Zebedee and Black Kite for WP:NOTHERE after a long ANI thread that he had himself started and cited same type of evidence that JosephusOfJerusalem has cited here as well as attempted to canvass dozens of editors just like JosephusOfJerusalem is doing here.

Similarities between Sardeeph and JosephusOfJerusalem are just more than that. There is a clear case of WP:DUCK.

• Sardeeph filed two AE reports, against me and Kautilya3 on 30 July.
• And today JosephusOfJerusalem filed two AE reports, against Capitals00 and D4iNa4.
• Even the notification left by JosephusOfJerusalem and Sardeeph are totally same:

There is a discussion about your behaviour at WP:AE.

Please see WP:AE for discussion about your behavior.

Sardeeph was indeffed on 20 October 2017. JosephusOfJerusalem registered on 18 October but made his first article space edit on 31 October. I see no doubt that JosephusOfJerusalem is a sock of Sardeeph and he should be blocked for his block evasion. MBlaze Lightning 13:54, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

• Note: I've filed an SPI report here. MBlaze Lightning 15:40, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Mar4d

Support indefinite block on Capitals00; According to JoJ's editing history, he is a neutral user and someone who doesn't have a personal, vested history in this disruption-ridden topic area. Unfortunately I find his observations spot on, having seen Capitals00's edit warring, incessant personal attacks, WP:NOTTHEM excuses and disruptive WP:BATTLEGROUND behaviour across all pages. The above WP:WALLOFTEXT is the latest example. This unmanageable approach and attitude is justified and tolerated repeatedly without consequence, and the long-term harm it is doing to the project is completely unaccounted for.

This user is responsible for creating a deeply toxic editing environment, and has no one to single-handedly blame but himself. Unlike JoJ, the vast majority of Capitals00's recent talk page interactions involve personal attacks and confrontational vitriol directed at others, not to mention continuous condescending harassment, and there's stack-loads of evidence: , . , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , . This adds on to the myriad of edit wars, escalating new content disputes, and forcing in relentless WP:POV. It is no wonder then that the entire topic area is in a pitiable condition, when these problems are just the tip of the iceberg. I will take strong exception to MBL and Raymond3023, both of whom are involved users (their own highly problematic conduct issues require a chapter), who defended this user's disruption first on an SPI case (where he himself was not available for defense), and then in the most frivolous example of WP:TAGTEAM on ANI. When multiple people are observing the same, the question is, how long? This needs to end as it has become a net negative for Misplaced Pages, and it's time the curtains are pulled. For a user who has consistently shown no signs of improvement or reform, an indefinite block is in order. Mar4d (talk) 14:30, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

@D4iNa4: Well, it's a WP:CFORK which was copy-pasted right out of an existing article on the same topic, rejuvenated under a title already rejected by consensus, and it's a copyright violation based on WP:CWW with no text attribution. So yes, I will follow the rules and it will be pursued at WP:DELREV. You meanwhile have serious conduct issues as inherent below and in your response. Mar4d (talk) 15:14, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by D4iNa4

Come on Mar4d. Regardless of your long term disruption, you had to be blocked indefinitely a few hours ago for your exceptional disruption on 2016 Indian Line of Control strike. That you edit warred to get that article redirected then you started a senseless AFD and after already realizing that you will fail to get the article deleted, you tried to get it deleted under frivolous A10, and after that your senseless AfD was closed as WP:SNOW "speedy keep" under a few hours. That's what sanctionable conduct is, not the diffs showing Capitals providing warnings/guidance to users that you have misrepresented just like you misrepresented. Don't talk about "improvements" when you fail to get consensus on just every single article that you disrupt, such as 2016 Indian Line of Control strike, Siachen conflict, Kashmir conflict, India–Pakistan border skirmishes (2016–present) and lots more. D4iNa4 (talk) 14:44, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Mar4d, that was not a WP:CFORK. You are still not getting that the article's creation was totally valid and was created following the consensus on talk page. Why you even bother to tell you are right and everyone is wrong? Or that you just don't like to get over the results because the consensus is always goes against you. D4iNa4 (talk) 15:28, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Vanamonde93, you have misrepresented diffs in your comment. The four diffs provided by Raymond3023 are showing that how JosephusOfJerusalem was WP:GAMING the system to get his version protected by edit warring and misrepresenting WP:STATUSQUO. I should also mention that NadirAli made 3 reverts in less than one hour. On 14:44 yesterday, the comment I had made here by including the diff for "speedy close" is much before the diff for "swiftly reversed" you are providing, because the revert of the the speedy closure happened on 16:21, nearly two hours after my comment on here. You can ask any uninvolved admin if a block is warranted for restoring the copyright violation for which the user has already received a warning, the answer you will get would be yes. Bigger question is that why it happened at first place, had NadirAli never violated copyrights or just heeded the warning he had already received? Given he has been blocked enough times for copyrights before, why really made him deliberately ignore copyright violation? I will be adding more evidence here of actual misconduct but right now I am more inclined to wait for the outcome of the SPI: Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Sardeeph. D4iNa4 (talk) 18:14, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Vanamonde93, your comment read like I was ignoring the revert of the closure, though the revert came almost 2 hours later. For what it's really worth, I haven't even voted in that AfD but I am absolutely confident that the AFD will result in "Keep". If it did, then my comment would stand taller that the idea of nominating the article for AfD is clear evidence of WP:TE because a user should not be nominating those articles for deletion that are obviously going to be kept, especially when the user in question is here for long enough. D4iNa4 (talk) 18:45, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by SheriffIsInTown

• Support indefinite block for Capitals00, Raymond3023 and MBlaze Lightning: I will not lengthen my argument with too many diffs of these users bad behavior as this AE has gotten already very lengthy. There are many diffs provided by JOJ and Mar4d regarding Capitals00's behavior and those should be good enough to get them banned. I would just note one additional point that Capitals00 accused OP of canvassing which is a fake accusation considering they were only bringing attention of neutral and uninvolved administrators towards issues on different pages, that is no canvassing especially when OP themselves are a neutral editor in WP:ARBIPA area. Also, in their defence, Capitals00 is accusing "JosephusOfJerusalem suspiciously removed that message" for removing a message from their own talk page for which they have complete prerogative. Using arguments like these to defend their actions is self-defeating.

WP:ARBIPA calls for a conducive and coherent environment. WP:CIR might be an extension to a policy but that is not to be cited in every comment against your opponents on WP:ARBIPA articles. It is insulting to call all other editors incompetent who disagree with you. Capitals00 has been doing this in defiance of WP:ARBIPA, they are using WP:CIR as an excuse to insult their opponents.

I am supporting an indef ban for Raymond3023 and MBlaze Lightning for their accusation of socking in this very thread against the OP. WP:ARBIPA prohibits such bad faith accusations against other editors. As a matter of fact MBlaze Lightning has already once reported JOJ under a different master than the one they are associating them with in this thread. It looks like they are unable to make up their mind and associating OP with different sockmasters just to get their point through and defend the accused in vain. This is not the proper place to accuse someone of socking and that too without proper evidence plus accusing OP for socking without evidence would not take the violations of Capitals00 away. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 16:52, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

• @power~enwiki: No, this is not what WP:ARBIPA is for, we do not ban most if not all. Evidence is evaluated, then violators are banned. Your statement is unhelpful and destructive for the project, it seems as if when opinion starts to turn against one editor and a ban looks evident, someone comes and says let's ban most if not all so as to confuse the admins (not that they can be) and derail the conversation.

• @Razer2115: You should be banned for casting WP:ASPERSIONS and bringing that SPI here. That SPI has no bearing on this AE and was filed after and in retaliation of these arbitration enforcement requests. You twisted it to make it look like these requests were filed after the SPI and matter is already decided that JOJ is the sock of Sardeeph. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 22:15, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

@Power~enwiki: Please read WP:ARBIPA, once you will read that, you will understand my argument. After, reading that up, please evaluate the diffs provided by the OP and Mar4d against Capitals00 and evaluate the socking allegation made against OP by MBlaze Lightning and Raymond3023. The act of Razer2115 to bring that undecided SPI falls under WP:ASPERSIONS, they made it look like OP filed this report because of the SPI rather SPI was filed because of AE. Also, these reports has nothing to do with content disputes rather it is about the behavior of editors on WP:ARBIPA sanctioned pages. They are to refrain from creating toxic environment by making insulting remarks, socking allegations and expression of bad faith. Referencing WP:CIR might be allowed when you really want to report someone for their lack of competency but it is not and should not be allowed on WP:ARBIPA sanctioned pages, at least not at this scale. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 03:50, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

@Vanamonde93: I saw your statements recommending t-ban for everyone and that concerns me a lot especially because you are an admin and I feel like you might be including me in that list. You are referring to statements made in the discussion about copyvio. My participation in that conversation might just be because of my own misunderstanding about copyvio since I have seen edits by Kautilya3 which include the quotes in citations. OP there was asking for an indef ban for NadirAli, which made me concerned. Although, my comments on that forum did not have any personal attacks compared to Capitals00 but I am willing to retract those comments if I can to avoid a topic ban as I had a clean slate so far and would like to avoid any ban at any cost. Let me know what could work for you and other admins minus a t-ban for me. I would also like to point out that Mar4d never participated in that copyvio discussion. There is an election season in Pakistan and collective ban such as proposed here would stop editors from editing all Pakistan pages not just the conflict pages thus shortening the number of editors and hurting the project overall so I request a reconsideration. @Sandstein, Ivanvector, and Seraphimblade:, see my comment addressed to Vanamonde93 above. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 18:40, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

• The latest diffs presented by Razer again fall under WP:ASPERSIONS as most of those diffs are of different people reaching out to different admins requesting to address some concerns and I do not think there is anything wrong with that. Those are also closed matters, if an admin would have thought of them as a problem, they would have taken an action there and then. For example, Mar4d opening an ANI request was closed by an admin, for example me reaching out to Ivanvector, the conversation continued because he was kind enough to look at the matter and he is still willing to, same is with my matter with Bbb23, I accepted to Bbb23 that my comments were overboard and that matter was resolved amicably. Citing diffs which put the editors in negative light and ignoring the ones where admins closed the matter, or where they were williling to work with the editors or where editors changed their behavior to positivity comes under WP:ASPERSIONS if I am correct. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 10:39, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
• @GoldenRing: I see my name in your list of violators, can you be kind enough please to let me know what the violation is so I can adjust my behavior going forward, I have been personally attacked at many occasions by many editors and have been trying not to respond in kind but might have gotten hot-headed at times realizing later on that it was not a good idea to comment in such a way but I have never been uncivil at the level of some other editors. I would love to see the diffs of my questionable behavior so I can explain/adjust my behavior. I would request you to please reconsider your recommendation as I have never gotten any ban before and would like to keep the clean slate. I have never been given an opportunity to defend or explain my behavior if anyone have seen an issue with it before. @Ivanvector: Please reconsider your endorsement of t-ban for me. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 13:31, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
• @GoldenRing and Bishonen: I am still waiting for the diffs of my problematic behavior on which this decision is being based so I can defend myself and/or explain my position. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 15:10, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
• @GoldenRing: I was just trying to be creative with my comment and did not mean to threaten the editor rather I was talking about the evidence but I realized that I might have stepped a line over there and did try to clean up the mess by removing the comment and then striking it out. The closing admin did not take any action so I thought the matter was closed. Also, it had nothing to do with WP:ARBIPA, I did not engage with any of these two editors (Capitals00 (lately) and Uncle Sargam (overall) involved in that ANI on India-Pakistan conflict article but I regret that those comments were inappropriate. I also never thought that just a participation in this discussion can get me a ban, I proposed bans based on the reasons specified in my statement keeping in mind that the final decision would definitely rest with the admin going through my statement and not just because I am proposing something. If you do not consider the behavior of those editors problematic as described by me then you do not have to ban them, I am willing to withdraw my statement, I did not know that enforcement of WP:ARBIPA would mean clearing the decks on both sides, my understanding was that every editor’s behavior would be evaluated in connection with India-Pakistan conflict articles and then the matter will be decided. Anything minus topic-ban? A warning should be sufficient. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 15:53, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
• @GoldenRing: That big box in red meant to me that my conduct on WP:ARBIPA sanctioned pages will be reviewed not all over conduct and I never thought that the closed matters such as ANIs and SPIs closed by admins will be considered as well, the SPI you linked somewhere above, I never contested the decision made by admins even once, I did put a lot of hard work in it but accepted the decision, no policy says that if you suspect someone of socking and you have the evidence, still do not file the SPI because you might be sanctioned under a request filed by a third person such as JosephusOfJerusalem in this case. I was hardly interacting with Capitals00 and MapSGV at the time but they were in my mind because of some behavioral similarities but when I dug deeper I found more evidence, I was just wikidefending when I filed that SPI, I never thought for once that this would be considered as battleground behavior. All other outstanding diffs provided by other editors about me are a lot milder than some of the editors here but I am still getting the same punishment. Misplaced Pages is not about punishment rather it is about prevention and I think I understand more about the process now than when this AE was filed and can ensure that my behavior would be better just because of this whole interaction alone and there is no t-ban needed for this. I have seen admins close AEs before with just warnings, I was never warned but getting a straight punishment.

I value my reputation as an editor and a formal ban by an admin would be a big stain on my editing. If it suffices the admins, I can propose that I will voluntarily stay off the India-Pakistan conflict related pages for two months but would not like to get a formal ban by an admin in the form of their final decision or a notification on my talk page, if I violate the voluntary stay-away promise then admins can impose a harsher restriction.

Also, I would like to note that I received my ARBIPA alert at least for this year after a lot of interactions has already happened which are shown in those diffs. I have been only on Misplaced Pages occasionally most of 2016 and 2017 and people tend to forget about these things when they are not highly active. Sheriff | ☎ 911 | 16:30, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by power~enwiki

Many of the editors involved here "on both sides" of the India-Pakistan conflict are out of control. I'd recommend the AE admins consider sanctions against most (if not all) of the involved parties here. I note recent ANI threads from May 5 (on sock-puppetry) and April 14 (on Hookah) as involving many of these editors and being fairly disasterous. power~enwiki (π, ν) 18:20, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

I honestly can't keep straight which of Capitals00, D4iNa4, Mar4d, Raymond3023 and MBlaze Lightning are on which side of any disputes here, but the constant bickering to get each other banned is disruptive, unhelpful, and destructive. I'm not as familiar with SheriffIsInTown, but disagree with their opinion here. power~enwiki (π, ν) 01:06, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

The two most recent disagreements appear to be at Talk:History of Balochistan (moved from a copyvio board) and Talk:Siachen conflict#Warning. The Balochistan one makes nobody look good; perhaps those diffs should be ignored.

The Siachen one makes Mar4d and Tripwire look bad, and Capitals00's frustration, though not ideal editing behavior, is understandable. We describe the Korean War as ending when the armistice was signed, and a 15-year ceasefire should be interpreted as the end of a conflict and not as evidence the conflict is ongoing. Regardless, that's a content dispute. power~enwiki (π, ν) 01:28, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Josephus: Suggesting that a copyright infringement complaint is purely "retaliatory" is a bit more than pushing-and-shoving, especially on a page where the discussion should be about whether copyright violations have occurred. I'm not sure how much of the 31KB change is the removal of quotes from this diff as other changes are intertwined, but it's clearly a lot. I don't take Capitals00's immediate request for an indef to be in good faith, but the copyright concern looks to be a legitimate concern. I do agree that Capitals00 seems to be the worst offender in terms of escalating things, but nobody involved here has clean hands. power~enwiki (π, ν) 04:11, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

And it's true, the acronym soup of is wiki-lawyering. That's not unique to you; every single person in this discussion so far (myself included) wiki-lawyers too much. It's not a crime to call a spade a spade. power~enwiki (π, ν) 04:14, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Josephus: you may be right. Perhaps Capitals00 will attempt to defend his behavior, rather than simply giving an alphabet-soup of attacks against the people he was replying to. power~enwiki (π, ν) 04:27, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Razer2115

WP:AE is not supposed to be used by tireless POV-pushers to try to eliminate editors who clearly have much better grasp of WP:NPOV, WP:BRD, WP:CON, WP:COPYVIO and other relevant policies. Report seems to have been filed by a probable sock per recently opened Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Sardeeph and is nonetheless frivolous. Razer(talk) 18:35, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Ignoring the WP:ASPERSIONS as well as misrepresention of evidence around, I find serious issues with some editors I am describing below.

Two users of this case, SheriffIsInTown and NadirAli were working hard to reject obvious copyright violation and they are now desperately derailing a strong SPI by lending defense to a suspected sock even after one CheckUser has commented that the account is extraordinarily suspicious.

Consensus building and dispute resolutions have been already tried, but clear evidence of unwillingness to get over the outcome from NadirAli, Mar4d, SheriffIsInTown and TripWire with their frequent WP:FORUMSHOPPING for already resolved issues has been most disruptive. Razer(talk) 07:27, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Vanamonde93

I cannot take admin action in this case, but I would seriously suggest a "plague on both your houses" approach here. I've looked through the diffs, and there is little to choose between the behavior of the various protagonists, with the exception of Kautilya3. There's plenty of impolite language, accusations of bad faith sans evidence, filing of pointy reports at various noticeboards, a tendency to stonewall to protect favored sources/content, and generally far too much evidence of battleground behavior. I'd recommend a topic ban from the Indo-Pakistan conflict for at least the four principals here. Vanamonde (talk) 04:42, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

• Let me expand on that just a bit. The so-called copyright discussion, which has now been moved here, is actually about a somewhat subtle issue. Nadir Ali has been copying quotes onto Misplaced Pages, which were subsequently removed by Kautilya3. These quotes are not copied without attribution (our most egregious form of copyvio) nor do they represent excessive use of quotations in-text; they are quotations used in a reference, in a topic in which faked references, and allegations thereof, are common. This does not mean that any such use of quotations is okay; but it does mean that the use is largely a matter of judgement, and a question of balancing what is absolutely necessary with minimal use. This is a matter that could be solved by folks who disagree but are committed to working together. Instead, what do we have? One set of folks flatly denying any copyvio; another insisting that its absolutely blatant, needs to be met with an immediate block, and that any failure to agree with this diagnosis is evidence of lack of competence. Thus my conclusion that the whole bunch here are displaying a battleground mentality, with the exception again of Kautilya, whose edit summary linked above is some of the only temperate language in this mess.

  In short, most folks here are simply trying to grab every opportunity to bring sanctions down on their opponents. JosephusOfJerusalem has provided a number of stale diffs in his original post, but he's not the only one; as evidence of disruptive behavior, Raymond3023 offers four quite legitimate requests for protection, and as evidence of a frivolous AFD D4iNa4 offers a speedy close that was swiftly reversed. These items are symptomatic of this set of disputes in general, wherein discussions about genuine disputes contain pages of castigation and recrimination, little to no substance, and certainly no evidence of compromise or attempts to build consensus. Thus my recommendation above, which I continue to stand behind; t-bans for all the folks deeply involved in this dispute with the one exception already noted. Vanamonde (talk) 17:51, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

• D4iNa4, that's not going to fly; the AfD closure may have been reverted later, but the fact that it was inappropriate was evident when it was made; anyone could have seen that, had they not been blinkered by their agreement with the closure. Vanamonde (talk) 18:29, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
• SheriffIsInTown, I haven't evaluated your behavior yet, but Mar4d, Nadir Ali and the OP are certainly not innocent here; neither is MBlazeLightning, who I did not mention above. Kautilya3: I do not believe blocks are appropriate here. These are not short-term problems caused by folks losing their cool; the problems are long-running, and have to do with basic editing style. People need to be removed from the topic until their attitudes towards other editors have changed; so we need either indefinite blocks or topic-bans, and I support the latter, because that is the lesser sanction. Vanamonde (talk) 05:48, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
• JOJ, anyone can comment here, and I have made it explicit that I am not acting in an administrative capacity. I suggest you confine your attentions to your original complaint. Vanamonde (talk) 06:24, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
• @GoldenRing and Bishonen: I would strongly recommend a t-ban for MBlazeLightning as well; aside from reports at SPI that are borderline frivolous, he has played his part , , , in the recent edit-wars, and has much the same attitude of treating Misplaced Pages as a battleground; for further evidence take a look at his talk page, where both Drmies and I told him off for making blanket reverts of suspected socks without sufficient thought or explanation. With respect to Lorstaking: his conduct is problematic, but his editing is less prolific and more widespread topic-wise; I think an Indo-Pakistan conflict t-ban is either too little or too much. Raymond3023, on the other hand, has engaged in plenty of the conflicts listed above (just look through his last fifty edits), and previously flirted with a broad IPA t-ban before NeilN gave him a reduced sanction. Finally; I know I recommended above that the t-ban be limited to the Indo-Pakistan conflict, but on further reflection, I believe the conflict between these editors is likely to spillover to other areas within the scope of ARBIPA; see, for instance, the history here, and the talk page here. If we're trying to prevent this set of folks from becoming a time-sink for the community, an ARBIPA t-ban is indicated. Vanamonde (talk) 15:28, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
• I'm not going to bother refuting Sdmarathe's diffs, because NeilN was involved in that kerfuffle, and can attest to my conduct. But, GoldenRing and Ivanvector, since you asked; Lorstaking's problematic editing is less on his own behalf, and more a tendency to jump into action for or against other editors. Examples include suggesting Mar4d be indeffed, defending MapSGV, , , , , , and jumping in against Willard84. This is far from helpful, but I don't know that it's sanctionable conduct; I'll let you folks judge that. Vanamonde (talk) 16:41, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
• Two more points, for the record. First, Ivanvector: NadirAli's involvement in this week's kerfuffle may have been accidental, but his history with ARBIPA sanctions is longer than anyone else's; he has the dubious distinction of being sanctioned in the original case, and has flirted with sanctions several times since his t-ban was repealed; see . As such, I'd say that he's on a tight leash, and should be cut very little slack, if you'll forgive the mixed metaphor. Second, Lorstaking may not have participated here, but he's well aware of ARBIPA DS, having participated in an AE discussion less than two months ago. Vanamonde (talk) 17:56, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by WBG

• As I noted on Cullen328's t/p days back, this is a situation which has grossly spiralled out of control.Vanamonde has put it quite nicely and, echoing his every wording, I' d recommend imposing an indefinite T-ban on each and every party in this dispute and the one regarding D4ina4 (just below) sans Kautilya3.Give the noticeboards and your capacities at pointy mud-slinging a break..... ~ Winged Blades 10:07, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
• GRing's proposal is good enough and in certain aspects, quite lenient.14:04, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Justlettersandnumbers

It was I who moved an extended and argumentatious discussion from Misplaced Pages:Copyright problems/2018 May 10 to Talk:History of Balochistan, as it was not advancing the process of establishing whether there's been a copyright violation or not. There seems to have a great deal too much combative behaviour by a number of editors here, including the OP. It's apparently just the sort of thing the discretionary sanctions are intended to prevent; Vanamonde's suggestion seems appropriate in the circumstances.

Capitals00, could you please tell me, here on this page, in clear and simple terms: does your copyvio report concern only material copied as quotations in the references? NB: it anyway has brought to light another apparent copyvio, which I'll deal with in due course. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 11:39, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Kautilya3

I have been quiet because I had been busy and this discussion has been too chaotic for me to make sense of. Now that Vanamonde93 has helped to clarify it, here are my two cents. As for the COPYVIO issue at History of Balochistan, I said in my edit summary "please trim the quotes". NadirAli came back several hours later saying "Trimmed quotes". Till now everything seems normal. However, it wasn't immediately clear what NadirAli had done, because the byte count went up rather than down. Perhaps that is why MBlaze Lightning reverted it again. The next step would have been for MBlaze and NadirAli to discuss it somewhere. I don't know why Capitals00 and JosephusOfJerusalem got involved in this affair. But they did, and things went downhill soon after.

I would recommend a short block for both of them to get their act together, and give an opportunity for the involved editors to discuss things with each other. Why I am recommending it for both of them? Because Josephus's hands are not clean. One of the very first edits he did in his career was this whole-article blanking to help out his friend KA$HMIR, but KA$HMIR got caught with his pants down. We spared Josephus then. I don't see why we should keep on sparing him. He continues to play all kinds of games to help out his friends. Getting rid of this gangsterism is the first step to bringing some sanity to the India–Pakistan pages. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 20:10, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Ivanvector

I'm posting up here because while I'm not really capital-I Involved here, I have frequently interacted with this dispute via SPI, where reports just dealing with this small but noisy group of editors have accounted for numerous cases just this year, many (but admittedly not all) of them obviously retaliatory, and many just plainly dredging up old grudges. Unfamiliar observers should be able to see from the links provided in this thread that this behaviour is widespread: any time there is any sort of content dispute it escalates rapidly to the administrative noticeboards, where we entertain a back-and-forth name-calling while the dispute moves toward resolution. The only real reason that many of these editors are still allowed to edit is that nobody who isn't already involved really wants to take sides in this ongoing battleground affair.

As admins, our responsibility is to prevent disruption, not to punish, and so like many of the other neutral observers here it's my observation that the way forward from here is an admittedly unusual mass topic ban. I endorse GoldenRing's proposal, although I have thoughts about some users who are and are not named in their list and will have to come back to this in a bit because I have a real-life thing to do. For completeness and simplicity I recommend any topic ban issued here should cover the same topic scope as WP:ARBIPA. Ivanvector (/_Edits) 13:16, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

In my view there are some editors here whose participation has become unacceptably toxic. In diffs presented here and found through links to discussions from here, I see repeated instances of what are probably good-faith content disputes being escalated by these editors, who often appear in disputes with no apparent justification other than what one other editor described as "bad blood". Another admin described this as "factionalized" editing, which it clearly is. In doing so these editors have turned this subject away from collaboration and have made it their own personal battleground, and at this point the only way we're going to come back from that is to remove them from the topic. There are a few editors that have been named here who really ought to be in line for community bans for the way they've deeply radicalized these disputes, and so I think that everyone on this list ought to be somewhat thankful that we're only talking about a fairly-limited-in-the-grand-scheme topic ban.

I endorse GoldenRing's list, and suggest including Raymond3023, Razer2115, and MBlaze Lightning based mostly on their participation here reflecting the same battleground mentality as the others that have been identified. I suggest excluding NadirAli who at least recently seems only to have been swept up in a dispute that was unnecessarily escalated by the others. I'm not so familiar with anyone I've not mentioned (such as Lorstaking) and so don't have any advice on sanctions at this time. Ivanvector (/_Edits) 16:07, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

I further endorse including Sdmarathe in the proposed topic ban, from their sudden appearance here perfectly fitting the pattern I just described, and noting that they seem to be wringing out a dispute with Vanamonde93 in which they were not involved, and further noting that they seem to be latching on to this dispute to exercise a personal vendetta suggested by their comments in Vanamonde93's RfA. This is the sort of behaviour these sanctions should be designed to discourage. Ivanvector (/_Edits) 16:28, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

@Vanamonde93: thanks for the diffs. Based on that I would suggest including Lorstaking in the topic ban, for repeatedly calling into question the competence of opponents in a manner which can only be described as an attack, for perpetuating disputes after an administrator tells them that their involvement is unhelpful, and for displaying the same attitude as many others here that every opponent must be someone's sockpuppet even after being repeatedly told otherwise. Ivanvector (/_Edits) 16:52, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Based on observations from Vanamonde93 and Sitush, and their starting a revert war that has had Princely state full-protected for three weeks, I've struck my comments regarding NadirAli and endorse including them in the topic ban. Ivanvector (/_Edits) 18:45, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Sitush

This diffs are already plentiful above. At least some of the people involved in this mess should be indef topic banned at the widest scope of ARBIPA because the issues run deeper than just Indo-Pakistani conflicts. For example, Capitals00 seems to have problems with anything to do with Hindu/Muslim/India/Pakistan issues and has done for years, as indicated by the current content of their talk page. D4Ina4 has had similar issues, and whenever I see both JosephusOfJerusalem and Raymond3023 involved in something, I tend to walk away sharpish (JoJ, by the way, is very obviously not as recent a contributor to the project as their account creation date suggests). These people are so het-up and embroiled in personal as well as topic-related differences that I don't hold out much hope of a limited t-ban actually reducing the noise overall.

I'm less familiar with the others, aside from Kautilya3 and Mar4d, but am increasingly fed up of seeing their names among the same small group of antagonistic regulars at the various dispute venues. Kautilya3 is usually a voice of reason; Mar4d tends to veer between both extremes, depending on the subject matter - their efforts to calm down PAKHIGHWAY (talk · contribs) a few months ago, for example, were commendable, if doomed, but their efforts in this particular topic area (the Indo-Pak conflicts) are clearly rather wayward. - Sitush (talk) 13:51, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

• Sdmarathe (talk · contribs)'s sudden arrival in this discussion is deeply suspicious. They've got a big problem with Vanamonde which has amounted to much of the little they have contributed to Misplaced Pages in recent years. They're also, from their history, quite obviously someone with a similar Hindutva agenda to some of the other people who are already being discussed for topic bans. I think their edits probably merit a closer inspection with a view to adding them to the burgeoning list of undesirables in the topic area. - Sitush (talk) 16:54, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

• The goings-on at Princely state in the few days are an example of how deeply engrained is the antagonism between these people. It is also an example of why a topic ban restricted to merely India-Pakistan conflicts is just going to lead to a lot more lawyering. FWIW, I've just written Talk:Princely_state#Proposal regarding that specific article. It isn't even one that historically has attracted a great deal of controversy - it has just got caught in the horrendous crossfire that these people seem to engender wherever they go. - Sitush (talk) 18:10, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Galobtter

Noting that JosephusofJerusalem tried withdrawing the the two AEs he filed by by removing them. Galobtter (pingó mió) 14:17, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Sdmarathe

Evidently a topic ban on Vanamonde93 should be also in order. Knowing that Vanamonde93 have been unnecessarily casting WP:ASPERSIONS and clearly trying to remove every single challenger with whom they are in dispute.

@GoldenRing: If admins really consider conduct of more than a couple of editors to be problematic then Vanamonde93's conduct has been very problematic as well:

• Edit warring related to Anti-Hindu sentiment. Vanamonde93 made no efforts to discuss content: talk page history.
• Threatening the involved editor on talk page and edit summaries. Misplaced Pages is not a battle ground.
• Brought editor to this board after already knowing that it is not actionable in this board. Canvassed an admin to act on this request and NeilN told Vanamonde93 that it is not actionable on AE.

I have compared Vanamonde93's own battle ground mentality with a number of users reported here and Vanamonde93 clearly beats all of them except the OP as per these incidents I have linked in my diffs, no older than 6 days. Sdmarathe (talk) 16:11, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by Jbhunley

At least in the case of D4iNa4, Capitals00 and Raymond3023 their pack behavior goes beyond IPA, either that or they are so aggressive as to extend their nationalism into Hookah. This ANI thread is one of the more vicious I have been involved in or even seen — particularly on the part of D4iNa4. I am not going to pull out diffs but the thread itself is worth a read. The last comment by Bbb23 ("@D4iNa4: You are out of control. Unless you stop interpolating your comments everywhere and moving other user's comments around, as well as repeated personal attacks on any editor who disagrees with you, you risk being blocked. I suggest you stay away from this thread completely.") is descriptive of the behavior there.

I would suggest at a minimum any topic ban be on IPA broadly construed (because Hoohah?!) but the sheer hostility, bad faith and disruption described here at AE tells me indefs for most are not far away. Jbh 17:30, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Result concerning Capitals00

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• I agree with Vanamonde93 above that, if there is action to be taken here, it should be topic bans all around for battleground attitude, etc. I don't, however, currently have the time or inclination to go through pages and pages of invective to determine who exactly needs a time-out from the topic area. Sandstein 08:29, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
• I tend to agree with Sandstein here. It looks like there are quite a few editors in this area who are behaving badly and need to take some time away from it, not just one disruptive editor causing issues. It will take some substantial effort to determine what sanctions needed and upon whom, but it is certainly clear that they are needed. Seraphimblade 18:35, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
• This has got horribly out of hand. So far I've read through this, this, this, this, this and this. Almost everyone involved has completely discarded the idea that Misplaced Pages is a collaborative project to write an encyclopaedia and has instead taken the battleground option. I'd compile diffs, but honestly it's just about every single comment from the start of this year on those pages. I agree with suggestions above that almost everyone involved needs a T-ban. I therefore propose to ban the following editors from all edits and pages related to conflict between India and Pakistan broadly construed: SheriffIsInTown, Capitals00, NadirAli, JosephusOfJerusalem, D4iNa4, MapSGV, Mar4d TripWire MBlaze Lightning and Raymond3023.I intend to make the ban indefinite, with a minimum of six months, after which they can appeal here on a showing of constructive edits elsewhere (they can, of course, also appeal the ban on its merits in the usual ways). Some above have mentioned MBlaze Lightning; while the Sardeeph SPI filing is not impressive as the "evidence" amounts to them both using a bunch of common English phrases ("for a long time", "needs to be a", "I am afraid", "into the article"), if the SPI clerks don't see it as grounds for sanctions then I think we leave it alone at this point (unless anyone has further evidence to offer). Some have also mentioned Kautilya3, who I don't think merits any sanctions at this point.I would welcome the thoughts of other uninvolved admins before implementing this. I did consider bans from everything related to India, Pakistan and Afghanistan (the scope of the IPA DS) but the dispute here does seem to be reasonably focused on India-Pakistan conflict. I consider this outcome fairly lenient, considering that there have also been calls for the lot of them to be simply indeffed. GoldenRing (talk) 11:32, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

• @Sandstein and Seraphimblade: I would value your thoughts on the above. I'd also add that I think without this sort of action this is headed to WP:A/R/C. GoldenRing (talk) 12:31, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

• @GoldenRing: I generally agree with the approach you propose; thanks for taking the time for reviewing the discussions. Because I haven't done this myself, I can't express an opinion about whether the users you name are the right ones. Sandstein 13:34, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
• @GoldenRing: But you should check whether all the editors on your list were properly alerted to discretionary sanctions prior to their conduct at issue here. Sandstein 16:15, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

• Thanks for the reminder. As far as I can see:

• SheriffIsInTown was alerted within the last twelve months
• Capitals00 participated in an IPA request here at AE within the last 12 months
• NadirAli participated in an IPA request here at AE within the last 12 months
• JosephusOfJerusalem alerted within the last 12 months
• D4iNa4 alerted within the last 12 months
• MapSGV alerted in the last 12 months
• TripWire participated in an IPA request here at AE within the last 12 months
• Mar4d participated in an IPA request here at AE within the last 12 months
• MBlaze Lightning alerted in the last 12 months
• Raymond3023 alerted in the last 12 months

• GoldenRing (talk) 16:34, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

• @JosephusOfJerusalem: Others have presented ample evidence here. Your input on Talk:History_of_Balochistan (diff, diff, diff) was not exactly helpful; Bishonen has previously warned you about assuming good faith when others warn you, with diffs; your talk page interaction is sometimes just bizarre (diff, diff - you citing ESDONTS is particularly ironic); but for me I think the icing on the cake is your participation here. Your participation here is a clear example of a battleground mentality. This is clearly a dispute which has got out of hand all around, and your attempts to use it to clear the decks of the side you disagree with has no place in a collegial environment. GoldenRing (talk) 14:29, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
• @SheriffIsInTown: You have treated Misplaced Pages as a battleground, not as a collaborative project, in many of the same discussions linked above as well as this, mess, of, a, discussion; and, again, your participation here has been an attempt to clear the decks of one side in a dispute. Classic battleground mentality. GoldenRing (talk) 15:05, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

• @SheriffIsInTown: That's why it says in the big red box at the top of the page, If you make an enforcement request or comment on a request, your own conduct may be examined as well, and you may be sanctioned for it. I am not proposing a ban on you purely for your conduct here, you are clearly part of this dispute and your actions have exacerbated it, not helped resolve it. But your conduct here hasn't helped your case, either. GoldenRing (talk) 16:00, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

• @Vanamonde93: I have added a couple of names to the list. If someone wants to present evidence against Lorstaking then I could be convinced, but I haven't seen any particular misbehaviour in my own review and don't have time to dig through their contribs right now.I do agree that there is a significant possibility that these editors will carry on the dispute on other IPA topics; but I'm not seeing a lot of evidence of it yet. Of course that might be because I haven't looked in enough places; if only we had the time... I think for the time being I'd like to try a narrower topic ban, on the understanding that any wrongdoing on other IPA topics will be met with lengthy IPA bans.GoldenRing (talk) 15:53, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

• I agree with GoldenRing's proposal to topic ban SheriffIsInTown, Capitals00, NadirAli, JosephusOfJerusalem, D4iNa4, MapSGV, Mar4d and TripWire with the conditions GR describes, and also agree there's no reason to ban Kautilya. And I'd like to raise a question about Lorstaking and Raymond3023. Did you look at Lorstaking, GoldenRing? I can't say I have enough background in and of myself to propose a ban for them, but I certainly have an impression. The complex history of Raymond3023's sanctions in the area this year can be seen here. Pinging @NeilN: do you think a topic ban of Raymond should be included in our attempt to clean up the deplorable nationalist battleground which infests this area? Bishonen | talk 15:01, 14 May 2018 (UTC).
  • @Bishonen: No, they didn't hit my radar while I was looking through this. GoldenRing (talk) 15:05, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
  • Some of Raymond3023's edits gave me pause but I didn't come across enough to push them onto the list; I could be convinced, though. GoldenRing (talk) 15:06, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
  • I likely won't be commenting here as going through the request properly requires more time and focus than what I have to spare right now. --NeilN 16:45, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
    • (edit conflict) I will say that Sdmarathe's statement advocating topic banning Vanamonde93 seems wholly unconvincing to me. Vanamonde93's AE request they bring up as evidence did result in a strong caution from me to the reported editor. --NeilN 16:54, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
• For now all I want to say is that "a plague on both houses" might well be beneficial to the project. Moreover, Sdmarathe's long-term vendetta against Vanamonde is noted. Drmies (talk) 16:50, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
• @GoldenRing: I think the general idea is okay. I will not have time to review the specifics of your proposal until tonight. If you want to wait for a second opinion I'll be happy to do that when I can, otherwise I generally trust your judgment. Seraphimblade 16:53, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
• @GoldenRing: I endorse your addition of MBlaze Lightning and Raymond3023 to the list per Vanamonde. Like some others, I'm a little worried about the limitation of the topic bans to conflict between India and Pakistan, and worry that the disruption, and the mutual aggression of the editors, will spread to other IPA areas. Also, we may be inviting wikilawyering fine-spun arguments about the scope of the ban. But I agree it makes sense to start with a narrower topic ban. When you log those bans, it might be a good idea to also log a formal warning that any disruption on other IPA topics will be met with lengthy IPA bans. Sdmarathe's diffs concerning Vanamonde are ridiculous, btw. Vanamonde attempted to contain the unencyclopedic excesses of a tendentious new editor; that's not evidence of a "battleground attitude", but of care for our articles. Bishonen | talk 17:18, 14 May 2018 (UTC).

D4iNa4

E-960

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning E-960

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

Icewhiz (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 18:51, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

E-960 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

WP:ARBEE, page level article restrictions - 1RR (+original author as in ARBPIA)

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. 0408 11 may + 0420 11 may revert1
2. 1717 11 may + 1725 11 may + 1730 11 may revert2. 1rr on revert1
3. 1814 11 may revert3 (+ original author clause) 1rr on revert1,2.
4. 0702 12 may revert4. This one of an ip that does not count to 1rr, but does show pattern and is gaming of 3rr - 4th revert in 27 hours
5. 1354 12 may + 1249 12 may revert5, again of ip. This one is a 3rr vio in relation to revert2,3,4.
6. 1701 12 may. revert6. 1rr in relation to revert2,3. 3rr - 5 reverts in 24 hr window in relation to reverts2,3,4,5.

Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

1. 228 8 May will voluntarily refrain from editing the article for 72 hours. If disruptive tagging is an issue, another request should be made, with evidence that will allow admins unfamiliar with the sources to understand the issue

If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

notified. Also previosuly discussed here on 7 May 2018.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I chose to focus on the narrow aspect of 1rr/3rr given this is easy to demonstrate and previous discussion here. User returned to article 1.5 hours after the 72 hours were up and proceeded to revert multiple times.

RE E-960's comments below:

1. I did not add any tags or comments removing text (in relation to the 6 reverts reported) - so it is unclear to me I've been gaming the system here. I will note that E-960's has been adding dubiously sourced information (based on the Facebook posts of a Polish ambassador) - however that is a content issue (there is a RfC presently running on the article talk-page regarding the use of the ambassador's observations on research methodology).
2. It seems that E-960 in addressing the diff list was referring, in some comments, to the previous edit - not to their own.
3. 1717 11 may + 1725 11 may + 1730 11 may - reported as one-consecutive edit (FR did make an edit and self-revert it in the middle - in 1726-7- however this was ignored for reporting purposes - lumping 1730 with the consecutive edits of 1717 and 1725).
4. Revision as of 18:14, 11 May 2018 - E-960 reverted changes by Volunteer Marek - consecutive diffs in 1757-1809 - restoring the changed image caption and quote that VM removed - . E-960 added this information in 1717-1730 - so very shortly before VM's removal of the new information. I would not have filed AE over a single quote and image caption - but it is a clear revert.
5. Revision as of 13:54, 12 May 2018 - Icewhiz did not place the tag. The tag was placed by 198.84.253.202 at Revision as of 12:47, 12 May 2018 - E-960 should take care in attributing actions to users. I will note that I agree with 198.84.253.202 - the article does indeed overemphasize Polish views, while ignoring wider Holocaust and World War II history (for instance, it would seem that Jewish views (which have addressed this topic at length, which are long standing, are almost lacking all together in terms of opinions/assessment of the Polish role in the Holocaust - there is also an overemphasis in the use of Polish sources - which is a problem given that NOENG has us preferring English when available at the same quality and of BALASP as the sources selected do not reflect the wider world-wide scholarly consensus) - however, I did not place the tag.
6. Revision as of 12:49, 12 May 2018 - E-960 should retract his accusations of vandalism against the 198.84.253.202. This text is not agreed upon. While most editors agree, on the talk-page, that Gazeta Wyborcza is a WP:RS - many editors have failed to see the relevance of a statement which repeats the previous statement and says nothing new. If at all, WP:ONUS is on E-960 to include not on 198.84.253.202 to exclude.
7. E-960 reverted, in the 6 reverts, at least 4 different users - François Robere, Icewhiz, 198.84.253.202, and Volunteer Marek. Some of his edits may be justifiable in and of themselves. And perhaps I was nit-picky in counting reverts in one case - however the aggregate of 6 reverts in 37 hours on a 1rr article is not how a 1RR article should be edited.Icewhiz (talk) 13:19, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

notified

Discussion concerning E-960

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by E-960

This report filed by Icewhiz is nothing short of a dishonest MANIPULATION, and I would request that sanctions are placed on Icewhiz for filing a false report against another editor. If you notice (and go through the actual sequence of the edits ) you will see that these are reverts of DISRUPTIVE edits done by Icewhiz, François Robere and IP 198.84.253.202 including placing of more shame TAGS into the article and removing text using the <!-- Hidden text --> code.

Exampels:

• Revision as of 17:17, 11 May 2018 - reverted edit by François Robere who placed yet another shame TAG into the article
• Revision as of 17:21, 11 May 2018 - added a quotation earlier into the reference source citation and for clean up removed Polish word in parenthesis, how is that a violation of any kind
• Revision as of 17:27, 11 May 2018 - reverted my own edit, due to all the disruptive changes made by François Robere who himself reverted his own edits earlier, how is that a violation of any kind
• Revision as of 18:14, 11 May 2018 - restored the quotation that was added in the reference citation, since François Robere was making more changes to article and Volunteer Marek was reverting all the disruptive changes, and accidentally removed an unrelated edit I made
• Revision as of 13:54, 12 May 2018, 12 May 2018 - reverted another shame TAG placed by Icewhiz in the article
• Revision as of 12:49, 12 May 2018 - reverted a vandalism edit by IP 198.84.253.202 who place the <!-- Hidden text --> code to hid the text that was agree on in on the Talk Page , pls notice the Edit Summary caption made by another editor (→‎The Holocaust: Per talk), and this is where earlier IP 198.84.253.202 tried to remove the text outright from the article ... after being revered he decided to use the <!-- Hidden text --> code to blank the text.

This type of behavior by Icewhiz is nothing short of trying to game the 1RR rule, and create enough disruptions in order to level a false change against an editor who is simply reverting VANDALISM, because when you <!-- Hidden text --> or keep placing random shame TAGS you are causing major disruptions to the article. I think that users GizzyCatBella, Volunteer Marek, Nihil novi and MyMoloboaccount can all confirm what is happening because they all at some point were forced to revert all the TAGS and disruptive editing on the page. --E-960 (talk) 12:43, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by GizzyCatBella

I have no time to measure this but I would like to make an honest plea to the evaluating administrator. Please (please) review this especially thoroughly since Icewhiz (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) has a history of filing dubious claims.. Also please consider the frequency Icewhiz arrives here denouncing his opponents of violations - 3 times in the last five days alone. Thank you. GizzyCatBella (talk) 17:41, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Result concerning E-960

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

• @NeilN: These are your page restrictions, could you evaluate this report? Sandstein 08:31, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
• I will look at this some time today. --NeilN 13:04, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Thewolfchild

This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

Request concerning Thewolfchild

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

K.e.coffman (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 15:23, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Thewolfchild (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

• Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Gun_control#Battleground_conduct

The March 2018 AE discussion (AE:Thewolfchild) detailed a pattern of battleground behaviour, directed at me (largely) & other contributors. It closed with a warning to TWC to not personalise disputes; avoid 'clerking' / impeding consensus; canvassing, & more. However, such behaviour has continued:

1. 24 April, Creating drama / aspersions: "This constant bickering..." & "that huge train-wreck of an RfC..." (TWC's inability to let go of the RfC was discussed at the prior AE). TWC edit warred to prevent collapsing off-topic material: & .
2. 14 May 2018, Hounding: suggesting that all firearms articles that I edited "(33 and counting!)" should be listed at WP:GUNS to discuss "what, if any, further actions or sanctions are required" & "This should be examined, this should all be examined, and thoroughly." After pushback, TWC seems to have backtracked a bit: "the main goal here is to review the edits, not the editor" . This still leaves open the door that, perhaps, a secondary goal is to "review" (i.e. lightly harass) the editor.
3. 8 April 2018 & same, Clerking discussions / redacting comments. I reverted TWC once ; the other revert was by the OP. This resulted in a discussion on my TP (User talk:K.e.coffman/Archive/2018/April#April 2018), with belittling: "like some probational-acting-deputy-admin-in-training", etc.
4. 7 May 2018 More clerking, after an admin specifically told TWC "Don't ask for closes" .
5. 5 May 2018, Personalisation of disputes: "your friend K.e. basically told me...". In response to the "friend" reference (a second time), I posted on TWC's TP: . (Prior reference to "friends": 15 April 2018). TWC requested that I "please keep it off talk page": .

Previous sanctions

• Given a warning AE:Thewolfchild on 25 March 2018 by NeilN (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA).
• Block log

DS awareness

• Alerted about relevant DS on 0:55, 22 February 2018.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

I believe that these diffs display battleground behaviour and targeting of my contributions. They also show no learning curve in terms of Wiki norms; e.g., this (unrelated) ANI about TWC closed w/o sanctions, but provided this illuminating diff by TWC: 11 April. Since TWC doesn't want me on his TP and reacts strongly even to mild cricism (e.g.: I'm genuinely shocked, shocked!...), I'm bringing this report here.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

• 14 May

Discussion concerning Thewolfchild

Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

Statement by Thewolfchild

Statement by Pudeo

Petty complaints about word choices that are far from actual personal attacks. K.e.coffman, you should go back to contribute to the discussion at Talk:Heckler & Koch_HK416#Recent_edit because five people disagreed with your removal of the "intricate detail". I really don't think just citing WP:INDISCRIMINATE gives you the mandate for this deletionist streak on gun articles because the policy's just against "unexplained statistics". People agreed WP:PROMO material should be removed, but self-published sources are allowed for non-controversial claims (WP:SPS). And you also removed important information such as the weight of the weapon from the infobox. If you really think that's "intricate detail" you should start a RfC to remove it from Template:Infobox weapon, not do it article by article.

Also anyone is allowed to remove personal attacks per WP:RPA, but yeah, it tends to lead to a controversy if you do that because PAs can be ambiguous. --Pudeo (talk) 19:26, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Statement by (username)

Result concerning Thewolfchild

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.