Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 16:26, 3 November 2006

If honestly asked, there is no such thing as a stupid question…

Question(s) from Rama's arrow

1. Can you describe how you will deal with the feedback and inputs of the general community of editors on different cases? What kind of role will such outside opinions play in your work as an arbitrator? Rama's arrow 04:09, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
   • Requests for arbitration have a distinct format and template that is used. In general, I feel that the primary evidence and data that should be used in analyzing the situation is the statements and evidence provided by participants to the RfAr. Anyone may choose to become a participant, of course. However, as is clearly stated on every RfAr, “Comments are very welcome on the Talk page, and will be read, in full. Evidence, no matter who can provide it, is very welcome at /Evidence. Evidence is more useful than comments.” Anyone who takes the time to post their opinion or provide evidence will, and should, have their say taken into account. In that vein, there really are no "outside" opinions. There are participants, who will be bound by the ArbCom decision and as such have more at stake. Therefore, their statements should be given more weight. Then there are commentators, whose evidence and opinions are actively solicited and taken into consideration as well. The actual weighting is somewhat semantic, as each and every case will be different, and a well written comment should be considered as strongly, if not more so, than a two-line, half-hearted statement by a participant. So, remembering that RfaR's are not a vote of the general wiki population, each case needs to be judged on its own merits, based on the applicable guidelines, policies, and other issues that are being alleged, and all wikipedians who take part in the process as it is constituted should be heard. -- Avi 04:31, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
2. (This is to improve my knowledge as much as to know yours) What do you think about the problem of several admins misusing their tools or behaving poorly with others? What guideline and method would you follow as an arbitrator (and would want ArbCom to follow) in correcting/punishing abusive admins in cases that may come before you? Rama's arrow 18:09, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
   • I believe that administrators are people in whom the community has reached a consensus that they, their maturity, and their judgement, are worthy of trust and acceptance. On the other hand, it does not require infallibility. Administrators are often subject to greater stresses and hassling than regular editors, but are supposed to be able to rise to the occasion. Thus, to me, one of the most important factors is the track record of the admin. Someone with a good record who exhibits maturity, wisdom, and restraint where necessary, who "loses it" one day, should be treated differently than someone who exhibits a pattern of misuse/abuse. Personally, I try to hold myself to the highest standards, realizing that as an administrator, any blatant violation, or even perception of wiki-impropriety, would be magnified by how sysops are perceived. While I wish everyone would abide by that standard, we're all human and we all will make errors. In the case you bring, if the sysop has gone beyond "losing it" and it is now a pattern of abuse/misuse--I would tend to look at that strictly, as it is a violation of the trust afforded to that person. However, I would like to think that if the situation demonstrates that a good person had a bad time, that one can learn from ones own mistakes. Nutshell:Mistakes happen; Misuse/Abuse should not, and will be prevented. I hope that is clear, and I'd be happy to try and clarify if you feel it necessary. Thanks for taking part! -- Avi 21:58, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
3. I'm not sure if this is part of your job description, but what would you do to improve the enforcement of ArbCom decisions? What is your take on an ArbCom decision being read or not read as a precedent for similar issues that may arise? Rama's arrow 18:09, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
   • Improving the enforcement of ArbCom decisisons is something that can be helped by all wikipedians, sysops and editors alike. We have Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Arbitration enforcement. Violations of ArbCom decisions should be posted there by anyone, and sysops who take action based on WP:AE need to be supported by the community. I do not think that there is something that the ArbCom should do; rather, a spirit of camaraderie between editors and a desire to make this encyclopædia the best it can be would help all of us ensure that decisions are enforced. -- Avi 23:08, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
   • Regarding precedent, currently, ArbCom decisions are not binding future precedent, and I actually prefer it that way. Misplaced Pages is an ever growing and evolving community. What made sense for one person at one time when wikipedia was so big may not make sense for a different person three years and 4000 more editors later. Also, the members of the ArbCom are not appointed for life, but change over time. Common sense is common sense, and likely will not change. A sensible decision now would likely be followed in the future, but the fluid nature of wikipedia, its editors, and the ArbCom makes allowing the freedom to judge each case, in its time, on its own merits, very appealing to me. Thanks for participating! -- Avi 23:08, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Question(s) from Dasondas

1. Avi, do you have the time for this? If so, how do you see it affecting the attention you give to your editing and admin activities? Granted that being a good editor and good admin are probably well-correlated with the probability of becoming a good arbitrator, how do you advise us to look at the trade-off to the community between gaining a good arbitrator and perhaps losing some of the effectiveness of a good editor/admin? Dasondas 06:41, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
   • In terms of available time, I have my big (and hopefully last) exam tomorrow, which should free up hundreds of hours over the next six months. Since becoming an administrator, I have found that I can devote less of my time to pure editing, as I have sysop responsibilities (WP:AfD, WP:AIV, etc.) I am certain that should I become an arbitrator, that my time for both editing and administrative work will decline as well. However, I believe that this is a worthwhile trade-off. Of course, everyone has a limited amount of time, that is what makes it so precious. Therefore, I have found my editing to be more focused; more "efficient" as it were. More importantly, I think that someone who is considered a good editor and a good administrator is someone from whom the community would benefit more as being an arbitrator. A person who demonstrates a good, fundamental understanding of how Misplaced Pages works, both from the trenches (editing and debating) and good judgement in the application of policy and decision making (the administrative side) is someone who can synthesize their experience to be helpful in the most delicate and controversial of cases. In my personal case, I have made more edits since becoming a sysop than before, and I have a sense of satisfaction at the work I have done, especially with verifying and updating citations, and I do not see that stopping at all. Thanks for dropping by and taking part in this process! -- Avi 14:00, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Question(s) from Chacor

1. What is your opinion of ex-admins who have not voluntarily given up their sysophood? Do you think they should be resysopped at AC's will, or do you think that they should go through another RfA? What are your thoughts on the current re-adminship process for involuntarily-desysopped admins? – Chacor 11:45, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
   • I view Wp:RfA as a process by which the wikipedia community declares (or not) that they have a certain level of trust in an editor's judgment and ability to rise above his or her personal point-of-view, and they will use that judgment in a matter benefiting wikipedia as a whole. Therefore, I would like to see it dependent on the nature of the wiki violation and ArbCom resolution. More clearly, for violations that do not exhibit a misuse of community trust, I would like to see ArbCom make the de-sysopping a "temporary" measure, with re-sysopping possible through a future vote of the ArbCom after some interval of time. On the other hand, egregious abuses of community trust requires the community to return that trust, and should be a permanent ArbCom de-sysopping requiring the full RfA. Thanks for dropping by and taking part! -- Avi 14:10, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Question(s) from Fys

1. I will be asking the same three questions to every candidate. 'Arbitration' is a process of dispute resolution. If the parties to an arbitration, after it has gone to the committee, manage to resolve the dispute or any part of it themselves, would you continue the case or that part of it? If so, why, and if not, why not? Fys. “Ta fys aym”. 12:07, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
   • Once again, there is no pat answer to this question. Yes, arbitration is primarily a means of resolving a dispute between two parties. However, sometimes one of the parties is acting, as it were, as a proxy for the wiki community. For example, a case involving possible abuse of admin privilege. The claimant is not just acting as an aggrieved party, but represents all of wikipedia. For it is in wiki's best interest to ensure administrators exercise their responsibilities with the good judgment that the community felt that they had. If it is seen that said admin is abusing that privilege, even if the two parties "make up", wikipedia itself may need the protection of continuing the process. Similarly when it comes to banning/long-term blocks. There the ArbCom must take into account the benefit to the wiki community as a whole; even if this one particular spat between two people is resolved. On the other hand, some cases are merely disputes between two people/groups that could not be resolved by any other of the methods of dispute resolution, and they are not "wiki-affecting" issues. In these types of cases, if the parties can come to an agreement during the arbitration, I see no reason why the case (or the part resolved) can not be terminated as succesfully resolved. Thus, I would treat each and every case on the merits and ramifications of that case. Thanks for asking and participating. -- Avi 20:12, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
2. What role do you believe private discussions between the parties should play in determining the outcome of Arbitration cases? Fys. “Ta fys aym”. 12:07, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
   • That parties to a dispute should engage in reconciliation is always important, and if they can do that directly--all the better. In general, the important point is the resolution, and the return of everyone to making this encyclopædia the best resource on the internet. If the parties hash out their differences off-line, through an intermediary or not, and post their resolve in the case, it becomes a similar situation to your question #4 (since part/all has been resolved), and I would handle it as I describe above. Thanks for the questions! -- Avi 21:48, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
3. Take a look at Misplaced Pages:Probation. Under what circumstances should users who have not had any restrictions on their editing imposed, be removed from probation? Fys. “Ta fys aym”. 12:07, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
   • Probations are, or should be, applied with set expiration dates. The length of the probation should be commensurate with the violation/reason for the arbitration in the first place, e.g. a minor issue should not be getting a 1 year probation ab initio. Therefore, with properly and equitably assigned probations, I feel that there is no general need for early removal from probation. I would, however, be open for people with longer stretches (such as six months to a year) to apply for early removal if they have demonstrated adherence to both the letter and spirit of the probation, but more as an exception than a rule. Especially in that someone without restrictions on their editing should really be able to edit completely as if they were not on probation to begin with. Everyone of us should be editing that way; probation is a means to help editors who have exhibited a pattern of "forgetting" wiki policy, guidelines, and etiquette on a somewhat frequent basis. Thanks for dropping by and taking part! I'll get to your other questions later today, I hope. -- Avi 14:31, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Question(s) from Newyorkbrad

1. This is a standard question I'll be asking all candidates. What do you believe can be done to reduce delays in the arbitration process? Newyorkbrad 16:20, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
   • That is a difficult question, because I would not want the arbitrators to sacrifice quality and thoroughness for the sake of speed. It takes time for parties to be notified. It takes time for the parties to formulate their statements. It takes time for evidence to be gathered. It takes the most time for the arbitrators to analyze and discuss each case on its merits. I think the more important issue is why is there so much arbitration to begin with? RfAR's should be a last resort. We have many other methods to help resolve issues. I believe that the optimal situation would be to have RfAr's reserved for the most difficult or widely-wiki affecting cases, and then with fewer cases on their plates, the arbitrators can devote more time per case and streamline the process that way. I understand that alacrity is important, and I think that devoting the necessary time is important, and would help "move" things along, but I would rather take more time and get it "more right" than take less time and render "worse" decisions. -- Avi 22:59, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Question(s) from Nearly Headless Nick

1. You were blocked for 3RR recently in August (its recent for a person who is going for ArbCom). Would you like to make things clearer for us? — Nearly Headless Nick 17:00, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
   • Sure. At the time, I forgot that any reversion to the article is counted, and I had reverted one part of the article three times, and another one once. So I had thought I had not violated, but in truth I did, per “Note: There is no requirement for the reverts to be related: any four reverts on the same page count.” At the point I realized that, I was already blocked, so self-reversion was not possible. I acknowledged that on my talk page (as you can see here User talk:Avraham/Archive 4#Israel and the UN. The blocking admin offered (on his own, via e-mail) to unblock me if I stayed away from the article for 24 hours. I said it was his choice, as I deserved the block (my only one that I can recall), but that if he were to unblock me I would refrain from editing the article for 24 hours. He unblocked me, and I refrained. Anything else you would like explained? Thanks for dropping by and participating! -- Avi 19:59, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Question(s) from xaosflux

1. As functions assigned by ArbCom, describe your view on the assignments of Oversight and Checkuser permissions, including thresholds for (or even the possibility of) new applicants. (Question from — xaosflux 03:16, 2 November 2006 (UTC))
   • Regarding Checkuser: Checkuser is a tool that needs to be handled very delicately and sensitively, as it really strips any veneer of anonymity from wikipedians. As such, it should really only be granted to those people in whom the community (or Jimbo) has shown extreme trust. I am a board admin/sysop in other internet communities, and have used the equivalent (phpBB and SMF each have their equivalent on the admin or mod panels) to determine the identities of trolls when necessary, so I understand both the need for respecting the privacy of others and more importantly, the abuse that misuse of IP information can cause. Misplaced Pages is adamant about respecting the security of identities of its editors, and I would be very loathe to summarily expand the Checkuser privilege beyond the Arbcom and those who currently have it, unless a significant and severe backup exists over a period of time at WP:RFCU. -- Avi 00:16, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
   • Regarding Oversight: I think that the potential for abuse of Oversight is less than that for Checkuser, but the need for it is also less. The few times I have seen it in action, Oversight was performed (usually by User:Rebecca ) relatively quickly. With ArbCom elections occurring yearly, I think that the new members of ArbCom, together with the current set, should be enough to handle Oversight requests. However, if a significant backup exists, I could envision expansion of privilege to people with significant history and time in ALL phases of wikipedia (something like a bureaucrat plus), but that would be a decision that would be made IF the need existed. Currently, the high standards for Oversight seem appropriate to me. -- Avi 00:16, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Question(s) from User:Shreshth91

1. What sort of arbitration activities have you been involved in, in the past? Have you been involved in any ArbCom cases previously? Do you have any experience in settling disputes? --May the Force be with you! Shreshth91 05:49, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
   • On wikipedia I have not been a party to an RfAr as of yet, thankfully. Although not a member of the mediation committee or cabal, I do try and go out of my way to be the "cool head" in debates on articles. I think my many hundreds of edits on Talk:Circumcision and Talk:Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and even my recent edits on Talk:Naemi Giladi, to name a few, demonstrate my ability to act is this capacity. Further, in my previous real-life occupation, I performed counseling including marriage, divorce, bereavement, youth, teen, etc. Also acting as a mentor for youth/teens from difficult/broken homes. That kind of interpersonal reaction and mediation I feel helps me very much in understanding people and problems. Thanks for dropping by and participating! -- Avi 11:59, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Question(s) from FuManChoo

1. You have repeatedly pushed an extreme pro-Israel stance in a number of articles. Are you going to continue promoting this point of view as an arbitrator and will it affect your arbitration decision?

Secondly, on Foreign Relations of Israel, you continually replaced this

According to David Albright of the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, "Faced with sanctions, South Africa began to organize clandestine procurement networks in Europe and the United States, and it began a long, secret collaboration with Israel." although he goes on to say "A common question is whether Israel provided South Africa with weapons design assistance, although available evidence argues against significant cooperation."

with this

According to David Albright of the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, "... available evidence argues against significant cooperation."

The larger quote is more accurate and representative of what he actually says in the paper, rather than a misrepresentative sentence fragment. You never explained your actions at the time, despite repeated questioning. Can you explain your behaviour now?

You have also participated in a destructive revert war on Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. If you can't stand above revert warring on basic issues, which is wikipedia policy, how can you be trusted to be an arbitrator? FuManChoo 09:29, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

1. • Deut, is that you? . I think I have been very careful not to push a "very pro-Israel" stance as you calim, but to ensure that articles have all points of view that conform to WP:NPOV, especially WP:NPOV#Undue weight. As I make very clear in my nomination statement and almost all of my edits, each and every one of us has points of view. To deny that is to basically require wikipedia to be edited by a bunch of lobotomized automatons. That is why we have the guidelines and policies we do–to allow for editors of different philosophies, backgrounds, temperaments, and beliefs to be able to both co-exist as well as work together. One person's "cherry picking" is another's "reliable source", which is why talk pages are so important. I wil continue to edit articles in a fashion that I feel best follows wiki's guidelines and policies--even if that means that it makes some people feel I am biased one way or the other. To answer some specifics:
     1. I think Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is an example where two camps with strong opinions, each having significant support, managed to come to an acceptable compromise. Users LifeEnemy, Markovitch292, Amoruso, and myself eventually worked out a compromise, which was acceptable to most other editors, that handled the anti-semitic issues without using Category:Anti-Semitic people. Au contraire, the final outcome is a good example of how compromise and consensus can be reached, even on extremely contentious articles. Further, look at every one of my edits, and let me know where I treated somone disrespectfully, regardless of how I had been addressed and how my actions have been characterized. It is that type of "calmness under fire", ability to stick to policy/guideline and not devolve into ad hominem attacks, and restraint against any misuse of privilege that I think is something every arbitor should have. -- Avi 11:59, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
     2. Regarding Foreign Relations of Israel, please show me the diffs. It is possible that was in the context of a larger revert, and I do not remember it at this time, as Foreign Relations of Israel is not one of the articles I frequent. Although I do know there wa a concerted effort on the part of some people to add borderline and unreliable information about biological weaponry capable of ethnic discrimination (somewhat of a science-fiction type weapon as it was) to articles on Israel using sources that were not up to wiki standards. Perhaps that was part of it. Thanks for participating! -- Avi 11:59, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

The diffs are all in the history, as are my comments to you at the time. I'm not going to do your homework for you. The fact that you can't even remember your own edits speaks volumes of your reliability.

One more question from me. You recently removed Eden Natan-Zada, an extremist who belonged to a designated terrorist organization (Kach) who shot down 4 civilians in cold blood from Category:Terrorists.

Given this outright apologism for terrorism how can you expect anyone to take your bid for arbitrator seriously and, furthermore, how do you sleep at night? FuManChoo 14:09, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

• 1. You do know that the voting is not until December 1, at which time you may oppose to your hearts content, this section is for questions, not polemics and spleen venting .
  2. Secondly, regarding Eden Natan-Zada, please check the history. I removed him from Category:Israeli mass murderers, since you added him to Category:Terrorists. Category:Mass murderers says “This category is not to be used for terrorists”. I am not sure if Category:Terrorists is the proper cat or not, but one cannot be in both, as I stated in both the edit summary and the talk page, which you appear to have missed somehow. So, not only are you not assuming good faith, you are also engaging in personal attacks, and, to boot, have your facts completely wrong, which lends even more doubt to your accusations above.
• I have no problem sleeping at night; for you, I'd suggest warm milk (helps serotonin and melatonin release) and perhaps a relaxing bath. Feel free to Oppose when the time comes, but I think your own edits, your lack of adherence to facts, your egregious lack of civility, your personal attacks, your lack of good faith, in this and in what I suspect may be your ither guises, imply that you have an issue with me personally, and perhaps all editors who do not adhere to your particular point-of-view, as opposed to my ability to function as an arbitor. I agree, someone with an agenda, which I am afraid you may possess, should be scared of somone who is not afraid to uphold wikipedia policy and guidelines fairly and accurately, which is what I intend to do. If you have any further questions, by all means, but please refrain from the personal attacks and polemics until the vote. Thank you. -- Avi 14:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Question(s) from ^demon

1. You were involved quite heavily in a dispute involving the article Actuarial Outpost around mid-May which I myself tried (albeit unsuccessfully) to resolve. You yourself have only been editing Misplaced Pages heavily since January. Specifically from editing, to an edit war five months later, to adminship less than two months after that, to now running for ArbCom...how do you feel you've matured as an editor? -^demon 10:05, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
   • Actually, I think I was guilty of assuming too much good faith in that incident. According to Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser, Disruptive "throwaway" accounts used only for a few edits can be blocked on sight and no checkuser is necessary. Each of those accounts is an example of this. It is almost as if my trying to assume good faith and engage in dialogue, "fed" the troll to the point of the issues that arose. I also know from the webmaster of the Outpost where that troll works and who his former names on the board are. This was someone trying to get revenge on the site through wikipedia, this was not a "true" content dispute. If the socks would have been blocked immediately per WP:RFCU, I believe the troll would have lost interest C'est la vie. I still prefer to risk such activity and attempt to first engage in dialogue, as sometimes even trolls respond well to respect--but not always. In terms of maturation as an editor, I think that being more involved in editing wikipedia as well as administrative duties has shown me that perhaps the single most important thing for editors of very different backgrounds to be able to work together is to maintain respect and civility for each other. For example, look at Naemi Giladi, an article where three editors of very different backgrounds have been able to put together an accurate, fair, and open account of a very interesting, and potentially controversial figure. On the other hand, the Outpost incident shows me that sometimes the law needs to be laid down, and that trolls who continue to act as trolls need to be treated as such (something about silk purses and porcine auditory extremities ). I have almost 9000 edits. In that time, contention is bound to arise. I think my record shows an extremely healthy respect for all editors, while maintaining a firm grasp of wiki policy and guideline. Thanks for participating! -- Avi 11:59, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Questions from Mailer Diablo

1. Express in a short paragraph, using any particular issue/incident that you feel strongly about (or lack thereof) in the past, on why editors must understand the importance of the ArbCom elections and making wise, informed decisions when they vote.

• ArbCom is the option of last resort for the most difficult cases requiring resolution. An Arbcom ruling is one that should not be requested lightly, but when issued, needs to be upheld by all members of the project. Unlike editor, sysop, or even bureaucrat actions, there really is no appeal venue once an ArbCom ruling has been delivered, other than Jimbo. As such, it is in the wikipedian community's best interest ensure that the people selected are ones who can be trusted to make difficult decisions in as a professional and impartial way possible, with the best interests of the community first, second, and third. -- Avi 04:24, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

2. Imagine. Say Jimbo grants you the authority to make, or abolish one policy with immediate and permanent effect, assuming no other limitations, no questions asked. What would that be?

3. It is expected that some successful candidates will receive checkuser and oversight privileges. Have you read and understood foundation policies regulating these privileges, and able to help out fellow Wikipedians on avenues (e.g. WP:RFCU) in a timely manner should you be granted either or both of them?

• Yes, I have read the policies for those responsibilities and would be glad to help out fellow members of wikipedia. Specifically regarding checkuser, I have experience with similar tools on phpBB and SMF based internet boards, as a board admin/mod in other internet communities. They are nowhere near as large as wikipedia—a few hundred members at most—but the concept is identical in that the requirement for both sensitivity and discretion are paramount. -- Avi 02:22, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

4. What is integrity, accountability and transparency to you on the ArbCom?

• No different than integrity, accountability, and transparency in real life. I have always tried to deal with people online as I would deal with them face-to-face. Now for more specific answers:

  Integrity

  Integrity is keeping true to one's word. Integrity is following through on promises. Integrity is to act as one preaches. Mistakes will be made as long as we are human, but there is a difference between the honest mistake and the abuse of trust. One thing I have always believed is that the sysop, bureaucrat, oversight, etc. positions are those of trust; afforded by the wikipedia community to those it feels would help the project grow and flourish. One's integrity is essential to fulfilling that role.

  Accountability

  Accountability is shared by all members of wikipedia. All editors agree to abide by wikipedia's policies and guidelines in order to take part in the project. Sysops agree to hold themselves to certain codes of conduct when performing administrative duties. Arbitrators agree to act in as professional, impartial, and courteous manner possible in performing their duties, and agree to make themselves available to perform such duties. The project elects arbiters whose judgment it feels is best suited for helping to decide the most difficult cases. Describing the reasons for ones decisions in an arbitration case (in general–see next section for more) would demonstrate their accountability.

  Transparency

  In general, reasons for decisions should be posted, as they usually are. Further, most often, the discussions about arbitration cases are also publicly available on various wiki pages, so transparency usually exists. However, there are times when the ArbCom must deal with people's (or the project's) personal data, or other legal issues, where there would be a problem publicizing this information. In those cases, I can understand the ArbCom's not publishing every fact about a case, so as to protect the security of editors and the project as a whole. Thanks for asking, and I'll grt to your other questions soon. -- Avi 01:52, 3 November 2006 (UTC)