Talk:Human rights abuses in Kashmir: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 04:10, 4 February 2019 editMehrajmir13 (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users2,174 edits →Removal of longstanding content: comTag: 2017 wikitext editor ← Previous edit		Revision as of 04:24, 4 February 2019 edit undoRenamed user U1krw4txwPvuEp3lqV382vOcqa7 (talk \| contribs)68,802 edits →Removal of longstanding content: reNext edit →
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	:*regarding counterterrorist, You have the quote above from the book, lets see what is your preferred version of the quote from the book above. we can then see and add that if it fits. --''<span style="text-shadow:0px 0px .3em LightSkyBlue;">]]</span>'' 04:00, 4 February 2019 (UTC)		:*regarding counterterrorist, You have the quote above from the book, lets see what is your preferred version of the quote from the book above. we can then see and add that if it fits. --''<span style="text-shadow:0px 0px .3em LightSkyBlue;">]]</span>'' 04:00, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
	::*You have reverted again claiming that there is "no consensus" despite no one except you has opposed the long-standing content. The IP above has already described you enough times that why the inclusion is justified. I don't see any good reason behind your revert. '']''] 04:10, 4 February 2019 (UTC)		::*You have reverted again claiming that there is "no consensus" despite no one except you has opposed the long-standing content. The IP above has already described you enough times that why the inclusion is justified. I don't see any good reason behind your revert. '']''] 04:10, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
			:::*I have ] a long message on your talk page with advice + wikilinks, on how to proceed in such situations. It will be helpful for you and the article if you follow my advice. I am still waiting for your answers to my questions above. --''<span style="text-shadow:0px 0px .3em LightSkyBlue;">]]</span>'' 04:24, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

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This article was nominated for deletion on 11 April 2013. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Removal of longstanding content

DbigXray your frequent content removal appears seems unjustifiable. You remove content by falsely labelling it to be violating NFC, when it does not. It is WP:DUE and existed here since 2014. You are misrepresenting sources as well by repeating the human rights abuses carried out in Pakistan's side while minimizing the human rights abuses by Indian side as "alleged" or "carried out during India's counter terrorism operations". "carried out during India's counter terrorism operations" is not supported by the source but it appears to be your own WP:OR. I can go own but this should be enough to state that your edits are misleading. MehrajMir (talk) 16:14, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

As shown in this edit from 2014 it was you who added this content in a mass copying that violated both internal and external copyrights without providing any attribution to the wikipedia article from where you copied this content.
I have removed the blatantly copied content again as it is a blatant WP:NFCC violation(s) that included large scale copying of content from Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act if you add this again in this article then you will be reported for WP:COPYVIO, please consider yourself warned. This article is not on AFSPA, so mass copying from the act is not allowed. please explain why it is WP:DUE in this article when the article already contains an internal wikilink to AFSPA.
Lot of copyright violations exist on wikipedia articles for several years, which does not mean that it is somehow ok or is allowed.
Nothing is misleading, you need to read the book properly, the Book clearly states on page 306, the following
...documentation of unlawful counterterrorist excesses by India including arbitrary detention, disappearances,..
Since you have been proved wrong now you should strike off or remove your baseless accusation of misrepresentation in your comment above. --DBig Xrayᗙ 01:02, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Content is not a violation of WP:NFCC since it is properly attributed to Ministry of Law and Justice of India and is freely available.

Again you should tell where sources say "carried out during India's counter terrorism operations"? It says "unlawful counterterrorist excesses by India including arbitrary detention, disappearances" where as you are misrepresenting it like the alleged abuses like torture, detention, etc. by Indian forces occurred only during the valid counter terrorist operations when source is contradicts it by saying "unlawful".

As for the content you are removing by falsely claiming it as a violation of copyrights is actually covered by gazillions reliable sources in relation to this subject. Why it should not be here? 39.33.42.140 (talk) 03:34, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Did you read the Book on page 306 I linked above ? Please read it and then please explain what "counterterrorist" means to you ? Which country is carrying it in Kashmir ? and how is it carried ?
Why should AFSPA details be here ? This is an article on Human rights, there is a link to AFSPA, already, there is no reason to copy paste all the points of the Act to a human rights article. The article should be discussing the human rights repercussions of AFSPA and not start defining the AFSPA act itself. --DBig Xrayᗙ 03:48, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Those counter-terrorist operations are not lawful according to the source, yet you are giving the impression that all of those abuses only concern the counterterrorist operations and ignoring that they are unlawful. This way you are just misrepresenting the reference.
When gazillions of reliable sources are detailing the "AFSPA details" with relation to the human rights abuses as I mentioned above, then why this article should not? 39.33.33.160 (talk) 04:00, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

looks like I will need to quote the entire line for it to be clear to you.

The books on page 306 has below quote.
The International NGOs and the United States also provided extensive documentation of unlawful counterterrorist excesses by India including arbitrary detention, disappearances, summary execution, torture, and impunity.
The above has been added in the article stating.
International NGO's as well as the US state department have documented excesses such as disappearances, torture and arbitrary executions carried out during India's counter terrorism operations.
disappearances, torture and arbitrary executions are all "unlawful" There is absolutely no need to state the obvious that torture is unlawful etc etc.
How is this addition a misrepresentation ? Either you are unable to comprehend the meaning of the Quote from the book or you dont really understand what misrepresentation means. Either way it appears to me as an English language related WP:CIR.
The books have a lot of things, just because a lot of things are there in the book is no reason to add everything into the article. You need to explain why does all the 8 points of the AFSPA act needs to be listed in this article here and why a wikilink to AFSPA is not sufficient enough knowing that this is a human rights article and not an AFSPA article. --DBig Xrayᗙ 04:12, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

You are trying to justify the abuse as part of operation when the operation themselves constituted human rights abuse since they are "unlawful" according to the source. You are clearly misrepresenting them. You have to treat them as illegal and human rights abuse like detention, torture, etc. according to the source instead of mentioning counter terrorism operation as justification.
You were disputing the importance of "AFSPA detail" without any basis. It is necessary to add them because reliable sources also mentions them as a significant concern. Without pointing out those points the article is no way clear about the issue which is massively discussed as part of human rights abuses. 39.33.33.160 (talk) 04:40, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Is there any country in the world where torture is legal ? or disappearance is legal ? or arbitrary execuation is legal ? Please let me know, I am honestly curious to know. I am not justifying anything. I wrote on the basis of what the source said. Please seek help of WP:REFDESK or WP:HELPDESK if it is not clear to you. Since you keep repeating "misrepresentation" again and again, it appears to me that you dont really understand the meaning of the word "misrepresentation".
yes, by all means add the link of AFSPA but why do you need to add the entire AFSPA ACT into this article, you are skirting my question. Discussing the human right implication of AFSPA is needed here . The massive copy pasting of the entire AFSPA Act is not needed here, if you think "massive copy pasting of the entire AFSPA Act" is needed here you need to clarify why. No one is stopping you to discuss AFSPA, I am preventing a "massive copy pasting of the entire AFSPA Act" into this article. --DBig Xrayᗙ 04:55, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Content is not violating copyvio or NFCC like it has been already told enough times and you are aware of half a dozen scholarly sources who considers these AFSPA act as a part of human rights abuses and include the details about the act. We should do the same. Finally, "counterterrorists" means excess carried out with an intention to counter terrorists. Not that it means excess carried out during "counter terrorism operations", so if anyone is having issues with "English language related WP:CIR" that is only you. MehrajMir (talk) 03:38, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

scholarly sources who considers these AFSPA act as a part of human rights abuses which is why AFSPA is mentioned in the article. You have to explain why you feel it is paramount to do a "massive copy pasting of the entire AFSPA Act" into this article. This is the dispute here. There is no dispute that AFSPA has been criticised on the grounds of human right abuses.
regarding counterterrorist, You have the quote above from the book, lets see what is your preferred version of the quote from the book above. we can then see and add that if it fits. --DBig Xrayᗙ 04:00, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

You have reverted again claiming that there is "no consensus" despite no one except you has opposed the long-standing content. The IP above has already described you enough times that why the inclusion is justified. I don't see any good reason behind your revert. MehrajMir (talk) 04:10, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

I have posted a long message on your talk page with advice + wikilinks, on how to proceed in such situations. It will be helpful for you and the article if you follow my advice. I am still waiting for your answers to my questions above. --DBig Xrayᗙ 04:24, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

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