Revision as of 03:09, 24 November 2006

Reference Desk

November 19

F-14 vs F-15 vs F-16 vs F-18

The USA has lots of fighter jets, which of the four are the best for a) air-to-air atatck, b) air-to-surface attack? I'm pretty sure the F-15 is the best out of the four for air to air attack, if I am correct, why doesn't the US Navy use these instead of using F-14 or F-18s? Jamesino 01:06, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Landing on a carrier puts a lot of stress on a plane (see Arrestor cables). I suspect the F-15 just isn't structurally strong enough at those stress points. Clarityfiend 04:07, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Precisely; An F-15 simply cannot land on an aircraft carrier like an F-14 or F-18 can. —EdGl 01:36, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

An F14 is a modified F15. There are lots of differences though. The first is the "swing wing" which makes the wing straighter at slower speeds in order to lower the landing speed for a carrier landing. The swing wing also makes the wingspan smaller for storage on a carrier. The landing gear has been beefed up for carrier landings. It has a tail hook. Navy has a refueling arm while the Air Force uses boom and receiver behind the canopy. --Tbeatty 05:00, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

So if you have 4 clone pilots of equal skill level and you put each of them into a different jet, loaded with optimal missile payloads. Which one would most likely come out on top? Jamesino 23:21, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I believe the F-14 has a longer range and can fire more missiles simultaneously than the F-18, so in F-14 vs. F-18, the F-14 would know the F-18's location first, and be the first to fire a missle, and would destroy an F-18. Sorry for not including the other planes as I am less knowledgeable with those other aircraft. —EdGl 03:13, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Arranged marriage

How can I get an arranged marriage —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.164.200.39 (talk • contribs)

Die, then get reincarnated in a country which practices them. StuRat 01:27, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Or simpler yet, go to a country which practices them. Jamesino 01:47, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think that would work, since the parents normally arrange the marriage. Thus, you would need to get adopted first. StuRat 01:56, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Plus, why would you want one in the first place? Are you sure you understand what an arranged marriage is? Cbrown1023 01:59, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Maybe he wants a mail-order bride? --Justanother 06:30, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

If so, he should be very careful of the spelling, or he may just get a surprise package. :-) StuRat 07:22, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Also, listen to The Gift (song) first, so as to be aware of the potential risks involved. DirkvdM 08:34, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Maybe it's a she who wants to be the bride.  --Lambiam 14:03, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I personally prefer a deranged marriage. StuRat 17:12, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

"on-location"...

I remember reading somewhere (one of Dan Brown's novels maybe?) that often reporters will fake being on the scene of where the news is happening, and instead use a just use video of the place which they will stand in front of. My question is, does this really happen / how often does this happen? 68.231.151.161 01:35, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment: I think the novel you are referring to is Angels and Demons. Cbrown1023 01:46, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I imagine it's quite common, although, since they likely avoid actually saying they are there, it isn't really lying, the viewers just assume they are on-site. I saw one funny video where a reporter, in a boat on a street, is talking about the horrible flooding. Then some people walk by, showing it's only a couple inches of water. :-) StuRat 01:50, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think this is really that common in broadcast journalism. It's too easy to spot a fake background. What less-scrupulous TV crews do do is say they are reporting live from a scene when the segment is actually not live. There was a famous print case of a guy (Jayson Blair) who, when assigned to cover a funeral in West Virginia or somewhere, stayed at home in Brooklyn and wrote a story based on fabricated and stolen quotes. -- Mwalcoff 02:32, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Many times I see rebroadcasts of live reports, where the word "LIVE" is still on the screen. This is particularly funny when you've seen the earlier boradcast as well..."Wow, this live interview is identical to the live one at 6, what are the chances of that ?". :-) StuRat 02:47, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

See Geraldo Rivera#War coverage controversies. He absolutely lied, I saw the original broadcast. -THB 18:02, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Jayson Blair reminds me of a Russian music critic (whose name escapes me but it wasn't Stasov) in the early part of the 20th century. He was due to critique a new work of Prokofiev, but since he despised Prokofiev's music he decided to miss the concert and make up a scathing criticism based on what he knew of Prokofiev's general style. He sent the critique off to the paper, unaware that the concert had been cancelled. He lost his job. JackofOz 21:32, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

As someone who works in television news, I will say that I have never seen this happen first-hand, at any of the stations I have worked at or by any of our competitors. Nor have I ever heard of a verifiable incidence of this. It just doesn't happen. Whenever you see one of our reporters live on the scene, he or she is indeed live and on the scene. In fact, we have strict guidelines posted admonishing us to always present our reports with the utmost accuracy. — Michael J 23:38, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Extreme Ops Location

In the movie "Extreme Ops" much of the action takes place in a hotel high in the mountains - if I remember correctly it is in Austria. (In the movie the hotel is still under construction, but I believe that it is in real life fully functional). Does anyone know the name / location of this hotel ? --Dr snoobab 04:31, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Caliber (guns)

I have always been puzzled by the terminology used when describing a gun's caliber. When I did National Service in Australia the weapons we used were the Lee Enfield 303 and the hand gun was a 45. What do those figures signify? A 9mm is self explanatory. Shotguns come in 12 gauge and I used to play around with a 410. Also in Wild West stories the hero (or Villain) would pull out his never-empty trusty 30/30. What does it all mean. Joe Blow58.104.113.211 04:38, 19 November 2006 (UTC)Joe Blow

45 caliber means that the bore is .45 inches in diameter. A 12 guage shotgun means that 12 lead spheres with diameters the same diameter of the bore would weigh 1 pound. --froth 05:17, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

The .30-30 mean a 0.3 inch diameter with 30 grains of powder in the cartridge. Rmhermen 05:39, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

You can gauge the caliber of a gun collector based on his familiarity with those terms. (I apologize for that rather bore-ish comment, but I had to take a shot.) StuRat 07:11, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

We usually spell it "calibre" in Australia, but that's an entirely different issue.  :) JackofOz 21:33, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

The 303 Enfield means 0.303 of an inch, or 7.7 mm. Most of the time if it sounds like a fraction it means 'of an inch', keeping in mind that the biggest calibre of personal firearm is 0.50 or 12.7mm. Vespine 22:23, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Dolly (Parton?) song question (refactored)

when i was 14 i heard a song by dolly and it had a line about i don't want to throw rice at her if you know what it is i would love to know. thank you --—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bigmama654ply (talk • contribs) 05:50, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Here it is. I Don't Want To Throw Rice by Dolly Parton. --Justanother 06:26, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Serious Question

Are there any ways in which i can legally kill a man? - Paulie —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.236.134.181 (talk • contribs)

It depends where you are and what the circumstances are. In some jurisdictions killing someone in self-defense is ok. JoshuaZ 06:41, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

We have a good article on this at Justifiable homicide. Dave6 06:43, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages does not provide legal advice. But, as a general observation, you could join a military force which is engaged in a war, or get a job as an executioner at a prison, or become a police officer and find a bad guy who refuses to lay down his weapon, or be an armed homeowner in certain jurisdictions and wait for a home invader, or be a licensed gun owner in certain U.S. states and wait until someone threatens your safety. All those categories reportedly kill people legally. Edison 07:07, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I wanted to say "join the army", but soldiers usually spend most of their time hanging around a base or something. Wars are pretty uncommon, contrary to what the news may suggest to you. And then when they do get sent to a war they rarely get a chance of killing someone. And then when they do, it is often from a distance and it may even be unclear who did the actual killing. Very frustrating! Joining the US army would probably increase your chances, but then you'd have to become a US citizen first. But then there's the question of who's legality you're speaking of. The Israeli army would also be a good choice. DirkvdM 08:41, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

You don't have to be a U.S. citizen to join the U.S. Army. In fact, they sometimes award citizenship to those foreigners who die in the service. Rmhermen 17:35, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

LOL. A citizenship to die for. :) DirkvdM 07:56, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes. You could become an executioner.--Light current 11:25, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

You could also be a doctor in a nation that allows euthanasia ny156uk 13:04, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Or abortion ;D --froth 18:35, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

However you want, if you're wearing a mask. (Just kidding) -- Sturgeonman 19:01, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

A foetus is not a "man", but he/she is (depending on your point of view) a human being. Also, killing someone in self-defence is not "legal". In most places it is still unlawful to kill someone in these circumstances and you will probably still be charged, but the court may accept your motives as a reasonable defence and acquit you. It's not just a case of you telling the police "I acted in self-defence" and them saying "Oh, ok, that's alright then. Have a nice day". JackofOz 21:42, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Hm, I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think you're correct that it's unlawful to kill someone in justifiable self-defense or defense of another. If you're acquitted on grounds of self-defense, then what the jury has decided is that you acted lawfully (or at least that there's insufficient evidence that you didn't). And I think if the DA charges you, then it means he's not convinced that you were acting in self-defense; if the evidence is clear that you were, then I think you won't be charged. --Trovatore 22:54, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

If by "legally" you mean "not in violation of any law", you might want to go someplace where there are no laws (and people to kill). Currently, only Somalia comes to mind, although sharia might be the de facto legal code in most of it by now. I'm not sure about outer space, Antarctica etc., and I'm pretty sure that national penal laws can be enforced on the high seas. In any case, you might still be subject to traditional forms of non-judicial dispute resolution on the part of the local population. Sandstein 19:55, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

You could go to a region in which there are no laws, such as disputed zones somalia etc.

Hong Kong banknotes

Most Hong Kong banknotes are issued by banks instead of the government. Why? Is this an unique situation worldwide? Thanks. WP 09:44, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

It is not unique. Several UK banks, based in Scotland and Northern Ireland, issue their own notes. Clio the Muse 09:52, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Coins

I am always told the head is the 'front' of the coin and the design is the reverse. Am I alone in thinking this is quite odd? In the UK the 'value' of the coin is therefore on the 'back' of the coin (if my understanding is correct).

No idea if this is the case is other countries, but it does seem strange to me to have the details of the coin's value on the back, not front (though obviously I appreciate that which is the front/back is irrelevant due to the nature of coins) ny156uk 13:13, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

The front is usually called the "obverse". Coins are easily recognizable to users by the "head". You might think of the other information as the "fine print" which could go on the reverse. And it's not the case in all countries. -THB 17:08, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Also, the term heads and tail might have implied that the head is the front and the tail is the back, but this is just something that occured to me as I read the question. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 19:36, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

See Obverse and reverse. To clarify; in the UK, the Queen's head is always the Obverse/front/heads, while the other design, with the value and secondary symbol (portcullis, rampant lion, Britannia etc.) is always on the Reverse/back/tails. I agree with you on the slightly strange idea of the value being on the back; I've always thought of the Queen's head being on the back of the coin, as it has less useful information, but obviously some more bigheaded monarch somewhere down the line has said "No! My head must go on the front, not the back!". Laïka 19:51, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

It makes some sense to me that their heads are on the heads side. What I'd like to know is why their tails are not on the tails side.  --Lambiam 20:29, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Talking about "heads and tails" makes obvious sense as long as someone's head actually appears on one side of the coin. Talking about "front and back" does not make sense, unless it is arbitrarily defined somewhere which side is the front and which is the back. It would have to be arbitrary because coins are inherently two-sided and neither side has any natural superiority over the other. That's why they don't use such terminology, preferring "obverse" and "reverse". JackofOz 21:55, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

"Front" and "back" are ambiguous terms, since they would refer to different sides of the coin whenever you turned it over. Edison 22:58, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Swan winter survival and feeding

A swan has recently appeared in a small pond near our house in Maine. No one has ever seen a swan anywhere near here. I don't know if it is a male or a female.

The pond will freeze over shortly, and we are concerned because that will eliminate the ability of the swan to dive for underwater plants, etc.

Most of the birds around this area have already migrated south, but this swan just stays here by him/her self. No mate has been seen.

What might we feed the swan, and what else might we do to aid in his/her making it through the winter?

Many thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.231.199.57 (talk • contribs) 13:27, 19 November 2006

• Contact a local bird charity,or I think America does have an Audubon Society which may help. .Sometimes a local vet will have a contact number for a swan recue or something like that.hotclaws**== 16:21, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
  • You can find your local Audubon branch here, if you are in Maine. They most likely can advise you of how to proceed.—WAvegetarian•(talk) 22:02, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

How recently? The swan could be regaining its strength for the last stretch. I also thought for a moment that maybe the swan 'knows' something you don't, like that it's going to be a warm winter and the pond won't freeze over. The Amsterdam canals rarely freeze over the last few years and the winter swan population seems to be growing. However, Maine may be further south than Amsterdam, but it doesn't benefit from the thermohaline circulation. The Maine article is a bit unclear about the temperatures. I've added a question to the talk page. Maybe you could help out with that, being a resident. DirkvdM 08:19, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

copyright / free licensing

I apologise firstly for being unsure as to where to file this, but my question is as follows.

I attempted to upload a picture which was taken by my boss, who co-owns a company (of two tea houses) called Tchai Ovna Ltd (I'm currently trying to work on the Wiki for the place) - my boss has given permissions for the image to be used explicity but he hasn't licesnsed or copyrighted it in any way; the photograph is of the exterior & entrance to the shop.

I'm not sure how I would go about licensing / fair use tagging it. I previously uploaded it as available to use on wikipedia as he said that would be fine, but that wasn't alright so I tried to edit the licensing to GFDL but I believe this is wrong also.

Basically, I'm wondering what I would list the image as; it's just a picture taken on a digital camera as far as I'm aware that holds no copyright other than intellectual. I don't have much of a clue about any of this. I'd also like to point out that if I have uploaded it under false copyright that it was not done intentionally or maliciously.

Thanks in advance to anyone who helps resolve this :)

-dannerz 13:43, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

This belongs on Misplaced Pages:Help desk; please try it there. Copyright is intellectual ownership; there is no other meaning to the term. He is the rights owner and you, as his agent, can upload the pic. But check the help desk. --Justanother 14:20, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Please also see WP:COMPANY and WP:AUTO. --Shantavira 14:23, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Also, before you expend a ton of effort; what makes his teahouses notable enough to put in an encyclopedia? See WP:Notability (and User:Uncle G/On notability) and WP:NOT. Misplaced Pages is not the yellow pages. --Justanother 14:28, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

British top fourty pop chart

Hello. I am trying out to find WHICH year both Eagle-Eye Cherry and The Cars were on the British top forty. Do you have any idea where to find this information? Much appreciated! 81.93.102.185 14:10, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

To myself: I think Vengaboys were on the top forty this year too... Could it be 1998? 81.93.102.185 14:15, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Try this site (http://www.everyhit.com/searchsec.php), it shows a top 40 hit for eagle eye cherry with Save Tonight in 1998. The last top 40 hit it finds for 'The Cars' is in August 1985, so it would seem that unless eagle eye cherry has been performing for a long time (his first album is 1997 according to his wikipedia page) then they look unlikely to have shared a year when they were both Top 40 artists. ny156uk 14:52, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Armed Rebellion in Tennesee USA

I once heard a story that a upriseing occured in Tenn. in the 1950s or 40s due to the populace being fed up with corrupt county officals. A county court house was taken over for a time, the state police or National guard had to be brought in to resolve the problems. The event was considered important to gun rights activist as an example of first amendment rights. It was also supposedly suppresed in the news media under request of federal officals. Anybody know about this? Thanks76.187.36.112 14:16, 19 November 2006 (UTC)Mr.Phil

Please see Battle of Athens. -- Rick Block (talk) 18:12, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

There was also the State of Franklin in the 1790's. Edison 23:00, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

It wasn't suppressed. The rebellion was a front page story in the NY Times. lots of issues | leave me a message 23:23, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Gulf of mexico

What kind of houses are built around the gulf of mexico? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.217.100.115 (talk • contribs) .

Are you aware that the Gulf of Mexico is rather large and is bordered by Florida, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Texas, Tamaulipas, Veracruz, Tabasco, Campeche, Yucatán, Quintana Roo, and Cuba? Accordingly, you find all kinds of houses, ranging from sumptuous mansions to comfortable villas to working-class apartment buildings to one-room cabins to shanty-town dwellings, in a variety of architectural styles or lack thereof. Is there some specific aspect you're interested in?  --Lambiam 16:26, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I can only speak for Texas but normally, I see raised houses resting on columns near the beach. Not really sure what they're called, but I assume those are fairly common near the beach. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 19:32, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Favourites

How do I set up a list of favourite articles on Wiki please? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Papermaker (talk • contribs) .

Perhaps the easiest way would be to add them to your watchlist. That way you could check to see if there had been any changes in them. -THB 17:04, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

See Help:Watching pages. -- SCZenz 20:10, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Go to your user page, pick Edit, then add the names of the articles you like with two sets of square brackets around each. You might want to put them on separate lines with asterisks in front as bullets.

For example, do this:

*]

*]

To get this:

• Flying Spaghetti Monster

• Invisible Pink Unicorn

StuRat 05:01, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Note that you could also use the Favorites/Bookmarks option in your browser to store a list. StuRat 17:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Arranged Marriage

Seriously, how can I get an arranged marriage? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.164.192.129 (talk • contribs) .

This question was posted above. do not double post. Jon513 17:54, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

But above people were insulting and making jokes instead of answering the question.

You have to arrange for it. --Nelson Ricardo 18:31, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Arranged marriages only occur within certain groups. You have to be a member of one of those groups. Do you belong to one of those groups? Where do you live? You didn't give enough information, that's why people couldn't answer your question to your satisfaction. Give more information. -THB 19:15, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Giving this more thought, there are certain religious "cult" groups like the Moonies that you could join and then be required to enter an arranged marriage, but I don't recommend it. -THB 19:23, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Did you read Arranged marriage at all? Usually such marriages are arranged through the parents. Ask your family to arrange a marriage. For us to give a meaningful answer, we need to know, at the very least: (a) where you live; (b) what you are seeking in an arranged marriage, in particular, we need to understand why such is your preference; (c) what requirements you have with regard to your future spouse (gender, age, religion, ethnicity, abilities, ...); also, does s/he need to agree with you that democracy is horrible?; (d) what you or your family are bringing to the marriage.  --Lambiam 20:09, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

(Oops, I see THB already mentioned this) Arranged marriages are, by definition, arranged. Someone would have to arrange one for you and for your future wife. You might consider joining the "Moonies". I read some time ago that the Rev. Moon got all the singles together in an auditorium (hundreds of them), paired them up, married them, gave them some advice, and told them to make it work. That is what marriage is about anyway, making it work. --Justanother 22:01, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

You might also consider getting your parents or a close friend to arrange it for you. I also remember that there are people who will find dates for you, in return for payment. They will get list of prospective dates, interview them, check them for compatibility with your personality and recommend one for you. Given that people will also arrange the wedding ceremony, all you are left with is the bit in the middle - persuading the other person they want to marry you. DJ Clayworth 18:27, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

jeans

where i can get pretty cheap jeans that fade from dark blue to whitish in the middle of the pant leg & have rips thanks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 162.83.250.230 (talk • contribs) .

A secondhand store. --Wooty Woot? contribs 18:45, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Stonewashed jeans comes to mind--Light current 19:00, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Why no article on this important subject? 8-(--Light current 23:17, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Good question. I started one. Dave6 04:46, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Go to Tesco, buy some Value jeans for a fiver, then cut with scissors and sandpaper. Laïka 19:45, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Look around these places. --hydnjo talk 20:31, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm distressed that people like those type of jeans, they must be on acid or otherwise stoned (sorry if I appear to be on a holey crusade here). StuRat 04:40, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

The jeans article has this link.--Justanother 04:45, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm also bewildered why anybody thinks these garments are in any way attractive, but you don't have to be high to wear them. TV hosts (who don't usually appear to be pharmaceutically affected, but may well be) often wear them. Fashion is sometimes a cruel master. JackofOz 00:06, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I am sorry that no one else understood StuRat's reference to distressed, acid washed, and stone washed jeans, i.e. what this thread is referring to. I for one thought it was clever.—WAvegetarian•(talk) 00:41, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Why would you assume that we didn't get the joke? --Justanother 00:48, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I guess I read JackofOz's comment as too straight-faced. With no further commentary it seemed that it had been missed. Apparently I was wrong. I'll just go back to my Chinese homework. Wo.de Yingwen shuiping bugou gao, or maybe Chinese has just lessened it.—WAvegetarian•(talk) 01:17, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Straight-faced?? Me?? Never.  :) JackofOz 01:25, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Adding value to meetings and encouraging volunteers to attend

I am a graduate student working on a research project. I need to find articles or names of researchers who have written about adding value to meetings and encouraging volunteers to attend. If anyone can direct me in either of these areas, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you in advance. Deb —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dpchristianson (talk • contribs)

Could you give a bit of context and clarification? What kind of meetings are these? Why should volunteers attend them at all? What would they be volunteering for, voluntarily attending the meeting? In many areas of the world you can attract any number of volunteers to attend the annual meeting of the Organization of Chartered Accountants if you just offer them a decent meal, but somehow I don't think that is what you have in mind. And what should we think of when you say "adding value" to a meeting. If the meeting has insufficient value, why have it at all?  --Lambiam 20:19, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I will go along with the idea of giving away free stuff to encourage attendance. Ideally you would do best to give them something with little or no intrinsic value, but which has a great deal of value to some people. For example, have everyone who attends get the chance to shake George Bush's hand (or just generally shake him). If you use this method, however, be sure to install metal detectors at all the doors. StuRat 04:34, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Wikipoll

I had an idea: what if we create a "Wikipoll" project in which users can post polls and ask the Misplaced Pages public for their opinion? If a good idea and feasible, how would one go about creating it? -- Sturgeonman 19:42, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages, as an encyclopedia, is devoted to the organization of facts and information from primary and secondary sources. We tend to avoid creating subpages where people argue their opinions, because this would not contribute to our mission. See also Misplaced Pages:What Misplaced Pages is not#Misplaced Pages is not a soapbox and Misplaced Pages:What Misplaced Pages is not#Misplaced Pages is not a publisher of original thought. -- SCZenz 19:50, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Polls not a function of an encyclopedia--Light current 19:51, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I was going to suggest making something at Misplaced Pages:Esperanza/Coffee Lounge but it seems that it was recently deleted. Jon513 20:25, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Polls are evil! --hydnjo talk 20:27, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Jeez- I didn't know I that polls are such a sore subject.-- Sturgeonman 00:16, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

It shouldn't be part of Misplaced Pages, I agree. However, there's no reason not to create a new wiki, named, say Wikipoll, for just that purpose. StuRat 04:27, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Precisely. I've been thinking the same thing. For example for films, as an alternative to imdb, with the more handy MediaWiki format, in which people can react to each other's posts. And without the ads, which are getting to be ever more annoying on imdb. One existing opinions-wiki is http://campaigns.wikia.com/Campaigns_Wikia, on politics. Another very handy one would be a site where one can discuss various products. This is something that would greatly improve the effectiveness of the free market system, which only functions well if people are properly informed, and one good source of information would be the experience of other users with products. DirkvdM 08:28, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes. Anyone can start his/her own Wiki! 8-)--Light current 08:04, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Democracy and capitalism

What are the main criticisms and drawbacks of democracy and capitalism ? (re-asking deleted question from anon contributor with more neutral tone) Gandalf61 19:58, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

One thing to note is that democracy and capitalism, though certainly related in the view of many, are technically separate ideas. Democracy is a political system, while capitalism is an economic system. -- SCZenz 20:06, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Capitalism is a politico-economical system. I'd go further and say democracy and capitalism cannot coexist, which I consider a major drawback of capitalism. I know some people believe that democracy cannot exist without capitalism, which then justifies intervention in other countries where an elected leader is not so enthusiastic about capitalism and globalization.  --Lambiam 20:25, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Have you seen Democracy#Criticism (more info in articles on specific variants of democracy) and Capitalism#Critics of capitalism? The latter is especially detailed. -- SCZenz 20:09, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Other articles you might find interesting are Comparative economic systems and Small is Beautiful. -THB 00:26, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Note that capitalism, or rather the free market system (something distinct, but that's probably what you were thinking of) is a form of democracy, using dollar voting. That's a stub, but a better discussion can be found on the talk page. However, that was original research, so I wan't allowed to put it in the article. (sob, sob) DirkvdM 08:31, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

It might be democarcy, but it sure isn't equal... 惑乱 分からん 13:53, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

No idea why anyone thinks capitalism cannot co-exist alongside democracy. Democracy is not a one-for-one vote on every aspect of life, or guaranteed equality throughout all of life. Capitalism is a much more difficult thing to define, it's apparently like a private-ownership economy and if so there is no reason this cannot co-exist with democracy. Whether capitalisam's outcome diminishes the role of government, or not, is questionable, but there is little to suggest it prevents democracy from existing. Indeed many would argue that free-markets provide a much more real version of consumer demands/requirements than government maintained markets. As always read more on both subjects, they are fascinating. ny156uk 18:02, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

On that subject, I would recommend the works of Friedrich Hayek, and in particular, Road to Serfdom. Hayek argues – rightly so, in my opinion – that political freedom and economic freedom cannot come about, to any substantial degree, without one another. Sandstein 19:43, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Hayek's argument has, to some extent, been superseded by new economic and political forms. At the time of writing he would have in mind the pure model of the 'command economy', typified by the old Soviet Union. However, developments in China have proved that economic freedom can indeed exist side-by-side with absence of the outward forms of political liberty. Clio the Muse 00:06, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Help

What does mean?--Rapier of Women 21:43, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

It depends on the context. But in chemistry it could mean a Hydrogen atom with a +1 charge, which means it lost one of it's electron. Jamesino 21:45, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

This could also be a reference to the pH of something.—WAvegetarian•(talk) 21:55, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

No, it's not equal to the pH. The brackets denote concentration. In dilute solutions, pH = -log₁₀(). —Keenan Pepper 22:17, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

H+ almost always means a proton. --Wooty Woot? contribs 22:56, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

To clarify, since the most common isotope of hydrogen only contains one electron and one proton, H+ means it has lost one electron, leaving zero. In other words, only a single proton is left, which gives it a charge of +1. StuRat 04:23, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

As a conclusion, in chemistry, stands for hydrogen ion concentration. –mysid☎ 08:17, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Axe vs Tag

Which North American bodyspray lasts longer and/or have a more powerful scent: Axe Or Tag? Jamesino 21:45, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I would think 'Axe' would have a slightly sharper edge to it! But 'Tag' tends to hang around a bit longer 8-)--Light current 00:20, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I have no idea if they're longer-lasting, but why not try the Bod line? You can't go wrong with fragrances called "Rock Hard" and "Ripped Abs". User:Zoe|(talk) 03:27, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Haven't you seen the commercials? Tag causes nearby women to find you completely irresistible. It's a scientifically proven fact. Someoneinmyheadbutit'snotme 03:44, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Masking Tape

Does the adhesive of masking tape have moisture in it? --Proficient 22:21, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

When you say moisture, do you mean free water?--Light current 23:18, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I would say not. Otherwise it might be expected to dry out in a few days. It doesnt. 8-)--Light current 23:20, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

The data sheets on the 3M Website state that masking tape uses rubber adhesive, rubber is not soluble in water, but there would be a solvent which could be considered wet or moist, but the rubber would already be disolved in it. If, for example, you stuck masking tape to tissue paper, I do not believe it would moisten the tissue. Vespine 00:34, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes its a bit of a sticky subject! --Light current 01:17, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

It does, in fact "dry out", over time, and becomes brittle. However, as that takes years instead of hours, it must not be water which is evaporating, but something with a much lower volatility (tendency to evaporate). StuRat 04:18, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

That may also be the result of degradation of the polymer structure under influence of, in particular, ultraviolet radiation.  --Lambiam 08:59, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

November 20

football

What was the name of Jim Nance's younger brother, who played football at University of Buffalo in late 60s or early 70s?...thanx!—Preceding unsigned comment added by Hooper49 (talk • contribs)

Given where buffalos live, I assume you mean American football, but that's just a guess. Please specify. DirkvdM 08:35, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Buffalos are from africa or asia, america has Bison, which they like to call buffalos. However the place Buffalo is the name of various places in the US. Philc _TC 23:01, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Dirk, if you know who Jim Nance is and what the University of Buffalo is, you know which football he's talking about. If those names don't mean anything to you, you won't have the answer anyway. It's true that sometimes American users sometimes fail to be geographically specific, but there's no reason to be scornful of someone when it's not really relevant. -- Mwalcoff 01:18, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Suppose I were a football fan, then I'd waste time reading the question and trying to figure out what it is about, based on the title. Sorry about the buffalo-mistake. That was stupid. DirkvdM 07:57, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Dislike of nudity

Why is nudity such a social taboo throughout most of the world? What is it about the human body that people fundamentally don't like? I wear clothes like most other people because it's the social norm, clothes look good too, and it keeps me warm -- but, why are people so hostile towards eg nude images? --Lightspeaker 00:11, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

The articles on nudity and indecent exposure explore that topic. I'm with you, I find it abhorrent that the so called conservatives find images of war and murder more socially acceptable then love and nudity. Vespine 00:26, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I notice that this is your first post ever as Lightspeaker. Please excuse me if I doubt the sincerity of your question. If you indeed have contributed to this project with a different identity (username) then please let us know so that we can make some judgment as to your sincerity. The nature of your question does not seek a factual answer so much as to encourage controversy. That kind of inquiry is not welcomed at this RD, we are doing our best to answer factual questions and not to encourage controversial dialogue. Get it? --hydnjo talk 00:32, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Hardly a reason to discourage them from starting, and even though it could be a controversial subject, it does seem like a valid question. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 00:40, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree. It seems like every day someone is calling for deleting a question because it borders on trolling. I firmly believe they should only be deleted in extremely rare circumstances. The questioner might want anonymity and questions that seem to be trolling may have a genuine lack of knowledge behind them. -THB 00:45, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Fine. Please have a go at answering the question then. --hydnjo talk 00:51, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry but although I realised this is a controversial subject (enough that I did get a different account), I did try to ask as best I could. I will try to rephrase the question more simply: what are the main reasons a majority of cultures throughout the world find nudity taboo, and what is it about nakedness they specifically dislike?

Is this more acceptable? Maybe I tried to explain myself too much before. Also, thanks for the links, the first one in particular had some pertinent stuff :) --Lightspeaker 01:02, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for getting back to us and I apologize for my harsh commentary above. I have no quarrel with legitimate inquiry. --hydnjo talk 01:11, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Probably because of its sexual connotations. Cbrown1023 01:13, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

No, not at all. The question Why is nudity such a social taboo throughout most of the world? is a subject of debate and not a question that could be responded to with a factual reply. I agree that the debate would be fascinating and lengthy but such questions are in the category of debate rather than exactness or factualness. --hydnjo talk 01:22, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry about that, I was referring to his question, not your comment. Cbrown1023 01:34, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I wish to make it clear that User:Lightspeaker is of course not me! I would have chosen a completely different name from my own 8-)--Light current 01:15, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Why Lc! Why would you think that any newcomer with ...light... in its name would be thought to be you, no matter how clever or witty? --hydnjo talk 01:29, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Mystery shopper (I havent been spotted yet!) 8-)--Light current 01:35, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Possibly (guessing here) because the people in power are often fat old and ugly and so acquisition of fine clothes was prized over natural talents like attractive naked bodies. Perhaps when we are ruled by hollywood celebrities will will achieve naked utopia. meltBanana 01:50, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Some universal reasons:

• Because your level of sexual arousal becomes apparent, especially for males, if naked. It would be equivalent to saying "I'd like to have sex with your wife" or "I'd like to have sex with you" whenever your excitement to meet a husband and wife seems rather excessive.

• Because of hygiene concerns, especially diarrhea and menstruation.

Note that those reasons only concern covering the genitals and anus, they don't apply to toplessness, showing ankles, or anything else considered "nudity" for purely cultural reasons. Also, the first reason doesn't apply to young children, so public nudity in that age range (like baby butts) is sometimes considered more acceptable. Hygiene, of course, is a concern at any age (except menstruation). StuRat 04:10, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

"If God had meant for us to be nudists, we all would have been born buck naked." StuRat 04:10, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Haha:) I like it! Yes, you can explain your universal reason to the thousands of nudists that get by quite happily without clothes. Nudity as taboo is purely a phenomenon of society, it has nothing to do with hygiene or arousal, for one, male arousal is a result of the taboo, remove the taboo and the arousal is removed too, or do you think the Kalahari bushmen constantly walk around with erections because their women go about topless?Vespine 04:36, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

No, the problem is that men, and especially teenage boys, get erections all the time. When they are hidden, it's not a problem, but when exposed, it creates a situation. For this reason, and for hygiene, adults almost always have their crotches covered, in all societies. As I said, those reason do NOT apply to toplessness, that is a purely social taboo. As for the hygiene issue, primitive societies with total nudism didn't know about how diseases spread, so didn't worry much about hygiene. As a result, they had much higher death rates, particularly among children. StuRat 04:44, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmm thats interesting about the childrens death rates. IDKT. Do you have any refs?--Light current 01:33, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

You didn't know that life expectancy was much lower and infant mortality was much higher in primitive societies ? I find that surprising. See the links for info. StuRat 06:28, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

My guess is that it is evolutionary and that one of the main things that separate humans from animals is their ability to refrain from sex and make mroe conscious decisions about reproduction. To that end, nudity works against that discipline and societies that didn't refrain died out through natural selection. Whence the social taboo is s surival mechanism. --Tbeatty 05:05, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't agree. Many other animals are amazingly picky about mates, even without clothes. StuRat 08:09, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't find that a very convincing explanation. In contexts where nudity is commonplace, it quickly ceases to be a sexual trigger. You may still be turned on by a person, of course, but she'd turn you on in a burqa, if all you ever saw were women in burqas. I remember someone (not an expert, maybe a sci-fi writer, but it was pretty convincing) arguing that clothing serves precisely the opposite purpose -- the fashion cycles of more- and less-revealing clothes, he claimed, had the precise scope of keeping sexual interest high by stimulating the imagination. --Trovatore 05:12, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

No, I still don't agree, ok, granted the topless thing, but there are nudist societies where having or seeing an erection is obviously not the end of the world, THAT is also a social taboo. I really don't believe men cover their crotches to hide their erections, and I'm sure they also don't have massive hygiene problems with diarrhoea or menstruation, I do the laundry for myself and my partner and I can't remember ever having to wash blood or faeces from out underclothes.. ahem.. As to conscious decision about reproduction, well, that's arguable, but I really don't think nakedness has anything to do with that. Again, I cite evidence in the thousands of people who participate in nudist societies who manage not to spend the majority of their time copulating as you would suggest they would since they are shamelessly derobed a large amount of the time. Vespine 05:19, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

The hygiene problem may be somewhat reduced by modern technology, but in primitive societies people had a harder time keeping clean (without toilet paper, running water, feminine hygiene products, etc.). With the exception of tampons, the other feminine hygiene products require wearing panties to keep them in place. Also note that sitting on an apparently clean bench another nude person sat on might be enough for you to pick up a parasite egg; it isn't necessary for there to be a big steaming pile or a bloody mess. StuRat 08:18, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I, for one, am surprised that religion hasn't been mentioned. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam all (AFAIK) have taboos with regards to nudity and that covers most people on earth as far as religion goes. Dismas| 07:35, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

But religion typically just reflects the social views of a culture, it rarely changes those views. StuRat 08:06, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I have no actual data, but it can start like this: people wore clothing for warmth. So after a while clothing became the normal state. And thus not wearing clothing became odd, with all the taboos you refer too.

I'll give you a modern example: shoes. In america if you walk barefoot, you will be looked at oddly. Why? Because most of the time people wear shoes, so not wearing them becomes taboo. So why is it not a universal taboo like clothing is? Because in some contexts (swimming, etc) it's normal to not wear shoes. The resulting taboo 'level' exactly matches how common it is to wear, or not wear shoes. In other countries (or in times past) going barefoot was normal, so no taboo resulted.

You can apply the same reasoning to wearing pajamas outside. Would you be comfortable with that in an office? It's not nudity, but most people would be embarassed, but in the proper context it's fine. In many bath houses in europe people sit nude in mixed company without being embarassed, yet would not dream of doing it in a different context.

Basically what I'm saying is that many taboos are the result of what's usual, and any variation from that eventually becomes taboo.

Ariel. 10:01, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmm ok so its either (or a mix of) sex or social taboo then? Thanks for the info --Lightspeaker 23:07, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Male nudity will never be generally accepted until women can view a (male) erection without getting scared or offended! --Light current 23:11, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Also will not be accepted till women can view a man from behind when he bends over! 8-((--Light current 00:12, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Name of a game

There's a board game I know as fox and geese, but it is quite different to the game described in our article on the subject. Played on the white squares of a chess board, one player has four pieces which move as draughts pieces except that they cannot jump or become kings; the other has one piece which moves as a draughts "king" except that it also cannot jump. Starting from the first rank, the player with one piece (the "fox") attempts to reach the furthest rank. The other player attempts to use the four pieces (the "geese") to put the fox in a position where it is unable to move.

Does anyone else know this game, and if so, does it have another name? thanks, Warofdreams talk 00:49, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I think I played a variant of this game using a checkerboard and pieces, but I can't remember the name. bibliomaniac15 01:10, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

The game is Fox and Hounds. The objective of the "Hounds" is to trap the Fox; the "Fox," obviously, is attempting to evade the Hounds and reach the other side of the board.

The game is "unfair" in that one side should always win. However, with proper play by the other side, it can be made very difficult. So much so, that I'm not going to tell you which side is which. B00P 07:38, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I've always known it as Fox and Geese too, but privately thought Fox and Hounds would be a better name... Is there likely to be a source we can use to provide a link from fox and geese to fox and hounds? Skittle 17:45, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Don't bother. I'll add a section to Fox games in a day or two. B00P 19:12, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I've seen the board game before, and I think it's called Hounds and Hare. NeonMerlin 20:35, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the information! If no-one else get there first, I'll try writing something on it. Warofdreams talk 04:15, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Have done so (incl Fox and Hounds redirect) as threatened promised. B00P 19:37, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Red turning blue

Moved to WP:HD#Red turning blue by hydnjo talk 03:02, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

• Clearly a question about using WP and not a question for the RD. hydnjo talk 03:14, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
• Yes you are quite right! Mea culpa! Sorry!--Light current 03:19, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Glad you explained it, I was thinking it was about red US states (Republican) voting blue (Democrat) in the last election. StuRat 03:52, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

...and I was thinking it was something to do with acids, alkalis, and litmus paper! Grutness...wha? 05:49, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

...and I was thinking it was to do with Red vs. Blue! Skittle 17:43, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Saudi Arabia and UAE country info articles contradict

UAE article says: Many churches are present in the UAE, as all other Muslim countries, being tolerant of other religions. Compare this with the Saudi Arabia view of christianity.

Dunno how to fix... Thought leave it with someone with more time then myself to sort out! Cheers

Saudi Arabia isn't in the UAE. --Wooty Woot? contribs 02:23, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

You would be best to ask that on the talk pages of the articles. That way editors that are invested in those articles can address your concern or help you fix it. --Justanother 03:26, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

The Middle East Portal might also be a good place to reconcile this. Anchoress 03:37, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I suspect the misunderstanding is that the governments are tolerant of other religions (as burning Christians alive likely wouldn't help them out in international relations). On the other hand, substantial portions of the population are dedicated to eradicating Christianity. Of course, many Sunni are also dedicated to eradicating the Shia and vice-versa, so this should be portrayed as a general attitude of religious intolerance, not just intolerance against Christianity. But, again, remember that most governments don't participate in overt oppression, but prefer to keep it as subtle as possible, at least until they get enough military and political power so they no longer have to worry about world opinion. StuRat 03:48, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

StuRat, you say that "substantial portions of the population (of Muslim countries) are dedicated to eradicating Christianity". Do you know this for a fact ? What evidence do you have for this assertion ? Gandalf61 11:10, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Here is a poll result from the US, where presumably more moderate Muslims live than in many Islamic nations :

In answer to the question, "If you learned about a plot by Muslims to attack targets inside America, would you tell law enforcement authorities," 234 said yes, but 39 said no, and 34 were undecided.

StuRat 11:50, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Is that your only evidence for your assertion ? That poll states that it is non-scientific ; it sampled delegates at the annual convention of the Islamic Society of North Amrerica who visited a particular booth; and it has no questions about the attitude of Muslims to Christianity. How does a non-scientific poll of self-selected Muslim activists in the US allow you to draw widespread conclusions about the attitude of average people in different countries to a completely different question ? Gandalf61 12:18, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

No, that's just one of many polls. However, scientific polls are rare in the Muslim world. Here's a poll on firing rockets into Israel (so about murdering Jews, not Christians, but still the same general idea):

"Some 42.4% of the respondents rejected firing rockets at Israeli targets from the Gaza Strip, and nearly the same number said it damaged the Palestinian cause." (So, some 57.6% do not reject firing rockets at Israeli civilians.)

Do you have a poll that shows 99.9% of Muslims worldwide oppose terrorism ? StuRat 19:42, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

StuRat, if 42.4% of respondents to some poll reject a proposition you cannot conclude that 57.6% of respondents support the proposition - you don't tell us what other responses were available. Could there have been some "don't know"s, for example ? Since you don't give a source for your second poll, we cannot tell. In any case, this poll still does not back up your assertion that "substantial portions of the population (of Muslim countries) are dedicated to eradicating Christianity". As you do not seem to be able to support your extraordinary claim with evidence, I can only conclude that you do not have any. I have no problems with you putting forward your opinion that the majority of Muslims are dedicated to eradicating Christianity (even though I profoundly disagree with it), but please do not present it as if it were a fact. Gandalf61 20:24, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I didn't say 57.6% support firing rockets, only that 57.6% do not reject firing rockets at civilians. Here's the ref: . Those who answered "I strongly support" or "I support" total 52.6%, so, yes, a majority (although I only claimed a substantial portion, not a majority). Yes, this particular poll is on killing Jews, not Christians, but seems to get the point across that the idea the media portrays that "it's just a few crazies who are causing all the violence" is wrong, there is actually broad public support for violence in parts of the Muslim world. StuRat 06:14, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

crocodiles

Do crocodiles sneeze?? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 219.117.179.3 (talk • contribs) .

This page concerns reptile sneezing and yawning, and as crocodiles are reptiles, I suppose they do sneeze as well. –mysid☎ 08:15, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps you could ask one.martianlostinspace 16:45, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

If you don't speak crocodilish, just tickle one. –mysid☎ 17:43, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Crocodiles also sneeze right before they vomit. -THB 22:11, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Do you speak from personal experience (smile). Hope you were wearing rubber boots! --Justanother 01:48, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Moving forward with the Metric System

I have always wondered, why do Americans still use the non-metric (avoirdupois?) systems of measurement such as pounds and yards and miles, when the rest of the world has moved on to metric (grams and metres) a long time ago? It is surely easier to perform arithmetic using a decimal based system rather than any other? Why bother to remember how many yards in a mile? At the risk of controversy, surely the technological superpower of our world should move on from such colonialist quagmires? Sandman30s 09:29, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, that is probably the reason: only a superpower can afford to defy common sense, ignore the rest of the world and engage in colonialist quagmires. Skarioffszky 09:40, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

You may be interested in reading metrication in the United States. It is not true to say that "the rest of the world moved on to metric a long time ago". e.g. you won't find any roadsigns in the UK marked in kilometres.--Shantavira 09:46, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

But all of the scientific community use metric (and everything else, miles is the only non metric unit we use, everythings in kilos, litres and metres otherwise, were definately not imperial). And it makes sense, it removes lots of nasty constants. Plus when NASA got lent some data for one of their probes they left in km, instead of converting to miles which they curiously do everything in, a crashed it into mars. So really its in their intrests aswell. Philc _TC 22:56, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

It's called social inertia. People tend to stick with what they are already doing. ☢ Ҡi∊ff⌇↯ 10:12, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

It's kind of off the subject and I'll be accused of picking nits but most Americans who actually know how long a mile is, don't think of it in yards. We think of it as 5,280 ft. Dismas| 10:18, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah yes "feet" - I should have said 'caveman quagmires' - has a better ring to it :) Sandman30s 11:51, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I wanted to get corrected on that 'rest of the world' statement - wanted to know which other backward countries there are - apparently this is rife in the "west" :) Sandman30s 11:51, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

It might also be a matter of nationalistic pride. The USAns are obsessed with the idea of living in a free country, so they resist adaption of international standards for the sheer sake of resistance. "You will only take our miles and pounds away when you pry them from our cold, dead fingers". JIP | Talk 12:11, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

What? It has almost nothing to do with nationalism, and everything to do with the system Americans were raised in. Since our parents learned feet and ounces, from a young age we are socialized into feet and ounces. Although we learn the wonders of the metric system in school, we don't have an intuitive sense for the units. If you as someone raised in the American Standard how long a foot is, they have qualitative and quantitative answers to estimate it - our thumbs are "about an inch" to the first knuckle, a yard or 100 yards can be estimated by a football field, a quarter mile is the distance between two bus stops. Switching over to metric isn't as easy as changing the labels on products. Now the distance between bus stops is 0.402 kilometers? Our thumb is 2.54 centimeters to the first knuckle? The 49ers have the ball on 3rd and 9.144? This is why metrification is difficult. sthomson 16:26, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Those figures you give appear to have false precision. This might also be a factor why Americans are so reluctant to change to metric - they fear that when they do, they must start measuring everything with greater precision than they are used to. People will have to start carrying measuring tape to find how far a bus stop is from their home, and have to use a letter scale, an eyedropper and tweezers to get the correct ingredients for cooking a meal. This perceived fear is false, as no such increased precision is required or expected. (Perhaps this is also a result of the total lack of intuition about metric measurements.) I would state the measurements you gave above as "400 metres", "2.5 centimetres" and "9.1". Even though your maths teacher says 1 foot is 304.88 mm, you don't have to carry a measuring tape and a magnifying glass when measuring how far you walk. Instead, you can use an approximation that 1 foot is 30 cm. It's what we Europeans do. JIP | Talk 16:49, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Exactly. We in South Africa converted way back in 1961 along with our British currency, and people adapted quickly. Sure my parents still talk in the old way such as "I am 6 feet tall", but in other ways they have adapted, such as knowing a ruler is 30 cm or using a 5 metre measuring tape and never using the opposite side which shows inches. Using metric we have learned to either approximate ("I am about 1.8m tall") or use precision when needed. Now the only thing left is to convert time to use base 10 instead of 6... just kidding! Sandman30s 08:04, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

You're right - my attempt at humor (by leaving in too many decimal places!) obscured the point I was trying to make, which is explained more clearly below. Thanks for responding! sthomson 17:00, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

That says a lot, as does the Metrication article. Good to know there is an effort, which like any change has a certain amount of resistance. Thanks people. Sandman30s 12:20, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Metrication is allegeldy not complete in three countries, the US, Liberia and Myanmar/Burma. I think Liberia and Myanmar also use some kind of imperial/avoirdupuis system, but the articles on the countries don't tell... 惑乱 分からん 14:04, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Liberia uses the American system. Myanmar uses its own system. Also, there are many countries where the government is totally metrified but the people still use whatever "old" system they used before metric came along. In some countries the level of metrication among the populace varies wildly from region to region. Quebec is much more metrified, for instance, than British Columbia. --Charlene 16:42, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Where can I find more info about the Myanmar system? 惑乱 分からん 17:12, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

And if you American-types ever go Metric (about the time when the British drive on God's side of the road), then don't get suckered into 'whole degree' Celsius thermostats! They stink! You're always too hot or too cold! --Zeizmic 18:21, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Who would wnat to drive on the right side of the road, it's wrong and wierd! Are all bus stops in America the same distance apart? How is that possible or practical? Englishnerd 18:44, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Many American cities are built on a grid plan with every road intersection spaced a certain number of yards from the previous one. The house numbering will go up by 100 within that distance. Strange to English eyes, but there we go. Marnanel 20:51, 20 November 2006 (UTC) (English living in the US)

Boy, the government really tried to force a conversion to metric in the 1970s and I was all for it. I still carry in my wallet a little plastic metric conversion card from the U.S. Department of Commerce that I got in 1976. And then one day they switched all the speed limit signs back to mph... -THB 22:09, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Did government give a reason why? Sandman30s 08:04, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

They never converted the speed limits to metric. In the 70s, they started putting some metric signs up in addition to the mph signs. Congress killed the funding for metrication on the roads because no one was using it, and people thought it was a waste of money. -- Mwalcoff 04:52, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

sthomson's post about being socialized into feet and ounces and not having an intuitive sense for the units etc, is true for any country that decides to change from one system to another. It does take a while for those alive during the transition to change their mind set. But hundreds of countries have changed without a negative impact on life. Australia did it in stages (currency 1966, weights and measures by the end of the 80s), and we didn't really blink an eyelid. The issue is that the USA is now lagging behind the rest of the world; they all did it and now the USA is out of step. JackofOz 23:54, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

So very true. Being from austria I naturally grew up with the metric system. Upon starting to play Warhammer 40k which only uses inches and feet I had a hard time measuring exact distances in the game with the hand and/or eye. However after a while playing I was able to measure 6" almost exactly with my eyesight and fingerspan. It is really just a matter of adaptation. Aetherfukz 00:05, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Let me give my two cents as an American. I use feet, pounds, ounces and degrees Fahrenheit. I learned the metric system in school. (in the early 80s, all the math word problems were in metric -- if Johnny has 9 kilograms of apples, etc.) I do not feel that my life suffers in one bit because I don't use the metric system. I know that metric has advantages in some ways, like how 1 liter of water is 1 kg., and of course I know all about the powers of 10 thing. When the metric system is used, such as for big bottles of soda or in science, I have no problem with it. But when I think about how far something is, I think of feet. When I think about how heavy it is, I think in pounds. This is how things have been measured my whole life, and in my parents' life, and their parents' life, and so on. Trying to change it would take a tremendous amount of effort and likely coercion, as we found in the 70s. So why should we do it? Because people in Malawi and Mozambique and Thailand use the metric system? Good for them. But that doesn't mean we should go along with them. We Americans are perfectly happy using the system we've used for 200 years, and unless you can show me that my life somehow suffers because of it, I don't plan on changing. -- Mwalcoff 00:12, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

You mention Malawi and Mozambique and Thailand, but failed to mention Mexico and Canada, or Japan, Germany, France, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Italy, Malaysia, Indonesia, China, India, Israel, Russia .......... If you lived in isolation from these countries, maybe it wouldn't matter a jot what they do. But you trade with these countries, you provide aid to them, you have diplomatic relations with them, and so on. You sometimes even invade them. There will inevitably come a time when staying with the imperial system just doesn't serve your interests any more. If you're going to have to bite the bullet before too long, why wait? Get it over and done with sooner rather than later. JackofOz 00:47, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, the military's been using metric for decades (they even have their own word for a kilometer -- a "klick"). Some consumer products, such as soda, are already measured in metric; more may be as globalization continues. But that's happening voluntarily. There's no reason to try to force people to use one system or the other. -- Mwalcoff 01:10, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

There is a reason to force people to use one system or another; it allows consumers to make reasonable comparisons between what people are offering, it avoids cheating and makes sure things are compatible with each other. That last point is probably a driving force in itself for people to choose to use a set system, but in the mean time you can get all sorts of confusion. The first is a simple principle of consumer protection; if I can use any system I want, I can tell you apples are 30p a pound, where 'pound' is in fact short for 'Skittle-pound' being equal to 12 ounces. Or I can sell you things in 'moog' measures, and you won't be able to work out if I'm selling cheaper than my competitor or not. Skittle 01:41, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I was referring to individual consumers, not companies. Obviously, there has to be a standard set of weights and measures for consumer protection. At the moment, consumer goods must show their contents in American measurements. Thus, a "2 liter" of soda will say "67.6 ounces" on it somewhere. This is to keep companies from taking advantage of consumers' ignorance of the metric system. (Several decades ago, a cigarette company advertised, "It's a millimeter longer than the others," not telling people a millimeter is 1-25th of an inch.) Eventually, the government will allow companies to use only metric. -- Mwalcoff 02:01, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

"Metrication"? Metrication is not an American English word. Try "metrification". Who says "metricate"? It's "metrify". User:Zoe|(talk) 03:31, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, "metrication" is correct. Misplaced Pages even has Category:Metrication. -THB 04:24, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Whether it is nationalism or a system in which you grew up, surely this is *against* independance and freedom. You celebrate 4 July with such fervour, yet this is for independance from British rule. So why still adopt the imperial British system of weights and measures? Scientists have adapted. Athletes have adapted. Americans should move forward with metrication as a symbol of globalization and willingness to be part of a world community. Sandman30s 08:04, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Sandman, you may have noticed that Americans don't do things just to be like the rest of the world. If we did, we'd watch soccer, drive hatchbacks, give up root beer and make our money different colors and sizes. -- Mwalcoff 04:52, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I thought the UK was making more progress in metrification than the USA? Or am I mistaken? JIP | Talk 08:32, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Uh, yes, possibly because of all the trade with the rest of the EU. 惑乱 分からん 13:48, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

At the farmer's market, I saw some nice apples so I bought a half bushel of them. That amounted to two 1 peck bags. The farmer grows them on his 640 acre farm, which is exactly one square mile. He planted a new varity of apples on a one acre plot of ground is exactly 160 poles square, where the pole is 16.5 feet, the length of an ox goad. His farm is one section of a 6 mile square township laid out as part of the Public Land Survey System which laid out most of the US other than the original colonies and some southern states, starting around 1800. In the plains states, where hills and mountains are not a problem, an aerial view shows roads laid out in a grid exactly 1 mile apart, so it is easy to give directions (go 3 miles west, then 2 miles north, then it is the first place on the left). Edison 16:08, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Another factor is that the USA is a) REALLY REALLY big, land-area wise and b) somewhat governed by the preferences of individual states (b is often necessitated by a). The US government can say, "Hey guys, let's all switch to metric! Yay!" but a lot of the funding for this metrification is going to come from state and local budgets. Also, the administration on every level, from federal to local, changes on a regular basis. It may be important to Congress A that the US fall in line with our allies, but Congress B may be more isolationist, or more concerned with health care or foreign policy, so they will end support for metrification. Finally, I am an engineer who works in both metric and "standard" units. I really don't see the US's continued use of standard units to be that big of a problem. As the world becomes more "glo-local", the US will eventually fall in line. sthomson 17:12, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Why is it that converting between units is done so sloppily? I am always amazed when I look at a bottle of coke et cetera, and it say, per 100mL (theses are made up, please don't correct them!) 500Kcal; 103J, per 10 mL serving 50 Kcal; 9.7J, how does that work?! Eŋlishnerd(Suggestion?|wanna chat?) 21:30, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Who joked that some drug dealer got fined because he was selling weed by the ounce? Keria 22:58, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

As an American, I can convert easily (and, in fact, often catch myself thinking in metric), but I would hate to convert wholly. Basically, it's traditional - and we don't have THAT much 'technical' collaboration with other countries that change is needed. The Space Station works fine! Plus, it's quirkier and therefore more interesting. 24.167.64.167 23:02, 21 November 2006 (UTC)Vultur

OK, so why doesn't the US apply that logic to, say, spelling? English spelling is nothing if not quirky ("and therefore more interesting"), but the US tends to adopt more "logical" phonetic spellings such as "defense" (for defence), "fetus" (for foetus), "nite" (for night) etc. JackofOz 00:11, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

See Noah Webster. Basically, in the 19th century, adopting different spellings was a way to stand out from Great Britain. To turn the tables, why not adopt Loglan, a constructed language that is supposed to correct the illogic of natural languages like English, as the world language? Undoubtedly there would be advantages if everyone did so. But it would take a long time for the benefits to make up for the "start-up costs" of having everyone learn the language. The same could be said to a lesser degree with measurement systems. The benefits of full-scale metrication for the average American would not merit the expense and effort. Logic can be overrated, anyway. There's something to be said for the idiosyncracies of something that develops more or less naturally over the generations. Only robots would want to live in a completely logical world. -- Mwalcoff 04:52, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Jack, please tell me that last one ("nite" for night) is a subtle troll! -- Chuq 01:47, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Why do people keep claiming the UK is metric. Scientists here might work in SI, (not exactly the same thing as metric but similar). And the EU tries to insist things being sold can only be measured in metric. But I am 6ft tall and weigh 12 stone 12 pounds. A football (i.e. soccer) penalty spot is 12 yards from the goal, and our maximum speed limit is 70 miles per hour. Ok we use metric in school so we aren't incompetent at using it but in every day life we are a more imperial country I think. Although maybe I am just getting old at 23. (Note I just noticed a difference with USA, 12 Stone 12 = 180 pounds.)137.138.46.155 14:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I didn't claim the UK was metric. I claimed it was making faster progress becoming metric than the USA. I guess it's because the UK is a smaller country, because it's a member of the EU (the only non-metric member, even), and because the Brits are simply better people. =) JIP | Talk 14:50, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Law

"Law is a command in the hand of the mighty people in a state." If you agree, make a debate on it. If you disagree, explain?

When is it due? Skarioffszky 12:44, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

You wiil need to define Law, Law in regard to a command and Law in regard to the state. You will need to define mighty people in the state. The question asked seems to be wether Law serves the "people" or if it is just a tool at the disposal of the "mighty people". Have a good time finding the arguments. The best way to go about would be to present your arguments for each side (serves the ppl vs. serves the mighty) then drawing your own nuanced conclusions Keria 13:02, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Do your own homework. We can help, but please don't give someone a whole question. For example, you could ask if your definition of "law" is correct, for example. Would here help? http://www.coursework4you.co.uk/ martianlostinspace 16:43, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

This question reminds me of a debate between Sir Thomas More and Will Roper, his son-in-law, in Robert Bolt's play, A Man for All Seasons. I'm having to pull this up from deep memory, so please forgive me for any misquotation.

ROPER. Now you give the Devil benefit of law!

MOORE. Yes, what would you do? Cut a road through the law to get to the Devil?

ROPER. Yes, I'd cut down every law in England.

MOORE. And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned on you, where would you hide, Roper, all the laws being flat? This country is planted with laws from coast to coast, man's laws, not God's; and if you cut them down, and you are just the man to do it, do you really think that you could stand upright in the wind that would blow then? Yes, I give the Devil benefit of law for my own safety's sake. Clio the Muse 00:31, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is not the place to "make debates". User:Zoe|(talk) 03:32, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

It is not 'making debate', for the love of God. It's a quoted extract from a work of literature, relevant to the point under examination. If you are unable to understand this it would be best for your own self-esteem simply to remain silent. Clio the Muse 06:17, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Clio, if you look at the OP, Zoe is responding to her/his request to 'make a debate' on the topic. Please assume good faith of your fellow editors. Anchoress 06:31, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for that clarification, Anchoress. My apologies, Zoe, for the misunderstanding. In my own defence I should add I have seen some very poor quality editorial comments in the brief time I have been here. But on this occasion I am pleased to confess my error. Clio the Muse 07:01, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, if you look at the level of indents (correct in this case) you will see that Zoes comment is indeed addressed to the OP. Whereas mine and Anchoresss are addressed to you 8-)--Light current 06:35, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Shares

If I bought shares of a company in one country can I sell them in another thus not paying exchange fees? ps. I don't know much about how it actually works so please pardon my ignorance Keria 12:56, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

A share on a company is traded on a specific stock exchange; you can only buy and sell it at that exchange (and that exchange is located in only one county, and deals in only one currency). So no. A few companies are traded in multiple exchanges, but they issue different stock into those different markets, so you still have to go back to the same exchange to sell a given share. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 14:06, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Of course. That makes sense. Thank you. Keria 14:13, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Exchange fees are not your main concern - taxes are. You need to speak to an accountant before you do this. Also, not all stocks are publicly traded; privately traded stocks (those in companies not on the stock exchange - that covers ca. 99% of companies) may have their own rules. Some can be traded simply by signing a contract with a purchaser; others have to be redeemed by the company. Check with a lawyer. --Charlene 16:38, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure where you are, but in the U.S. many foreign companies trade as ADRs so it wouldn't work. -THB 21:58, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

1 Chronicles 21

_Why_ is it a sin to take a census of Israel? 64.198.112.210 17:09, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

It has been discussed here and here. –mysid☎ 17:41, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Rabbi Shlomo Yitzhaqi in his bible commentary (Exodus 30:12) explains based on earlier sources that it is forbidden to count the Jewish people individually and that they can only be counted by everyone giving a half-shekel and the counting the amount received. Jon513 17:56, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

As both methods will give the exact same result in the same number of steps, I do not know how one can be a sin and the other not. But then by using the Rabbi's method, the census taker ends up quite a lot richer. =) JIP | Talk 18:08, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

The method was used for fund raising for public temple services. The advantage of not counting people directly is that you don't objectify people by assigning them a number. Jon513 19:34, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

But I bet there are poor people in Israel who don't have a half-shekel (however much or little that is in modern currency) to spare. NeonMerlin 20:43, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Half a shekel is about a dime. --Wooty Woot? contribs 00:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

One opinion in the Talmud is that it is illegal to literally count all the Israelites because the book of Hosea says "the number of the children of Israel was like the sands of the sea, which can’t be measured." In other words, the Bible says you can't count all the Israelites, so don't try. -- Mwalcoff 00:29, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Then I think the past tense "was" is important, meaning the population exceeded the counting ability of the institutions of its day. It wasn't possible way back when, but it may be now. And even if you change that "was" to an "is," I think this is one of those types of statements in the Bible that can go out of date. NeonMerlin 01:02, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Not sure if this is relevant to current Israeli politics but Edwin Black makes the argument that without IBM census machines (and a previously-created German census) the Nazis would have had an impossible time trying to round up all of the Jews in Germany. I never thought to connect that with this sort of Talmudic approach before, myself, but I could see how one could make the connection. --24.147.86.187 01:27, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

A couple of points. As a biblical Statute, no explanation is given for this commandment. All we can do is speculate on reasons. In monetary value, the half shekel was sufficiently small that poor people could contribute without suffering. It clearly wasn't designed as a biblical "stealth tax", as the Bible records that the rich were forbidden from supplementing their half shekel contribution. --Dweller 11:02, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Specialized Programs

I am asked to find "Specialized Programs" for the university Cornell. Can anyone direct me to a site with a list of all the specialized programs of Cornell University? Thanks. Hustle 18:25, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Try this page where the second sentence reads "They provide a means for faculty and staff to share expensive, specialized research facilities and equipment". The link at the bottom leads to the lists. Seejyb 22:54, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

So what is a specialized program? Jamesino 23:18, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Website sisterhood

dmoz.org lists Misplaced Pages among its sister sites, but Misplaced Pages doesn't list dmoz, or any of the others dmoz claims, among its sisters. Am I to conclude that website sisterhood is non-commutative and non-transitive, or are Misplaced Pages and dmoz using different definitions of "sister site?" NeonMerlin 20:29, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

It is easy to see how dmoz and WP differ. dmoz is owned by Netscape. Who owns WP ? (no cabal). -- DLL 21:09, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Where "Netscape" means "Time Warner" these days. Marnanel 21:18, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Can you shoot us the link to the "sisterhood" claim so we know what you are refering to? --Justanother 00:51, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

It appears on the inside pages of the directory, such as http://dmoz.org/Reference/. NeonMerlin 00:59, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, that is weird, isn't it? I don't see dmoz on Misplaced Pages:Sister projects. --Justanother 01:08, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

We would only count sites operated by the Wikimedia Foundation to be Misplaced Pages's sister sites. dmoz doesn't qualify. -- Arwel (talk) 20:42, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Left This is funny; dmoz as the evil stepsister. --Justanother 01:10, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Run this search. Needs a bit of culling but it seems the sisterhood is one-sided and self-declared. --Justanother 01:14, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I guess under that logic you are my brother editor. Can I hold $20, bro? --Justanother 01:16, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Author/artist's share of book/CD sales

How much of the price of a book or CD typically goes to the author or artist, if it's published in the U.S. by a major publisher/label and I buy it in Canada? NeonMerlin 20:50, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

New or used? -THB 21:53, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

It would depend on the contract negotiated, but royalties on books generally amount to about 8% of the cover price. That's what I get anyway! Clio the Muse 00:03, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

New. NeonMerlin 01:03, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Self-published books (vanity publisher) can pay much, much more. -THB 04:15, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Hacksaw blade

Thank you to everyone for help with the hacksaw blades/cutting the metal sofa frame in half issue. It took a couple of hours, and I got a blister, but I now have two manageable halves instead of a giant metal frame. One of the oval pipes actually had a solid 5/8" rod inside of it. I can barely lift each half, but now they'll fit in the elevator. Thanks again. -THB 21:52, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

How are you going to put it back together? X (DESK|How's my driving?) 05:12, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

It's scrap metal now! -THB 07:13, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm. It looks like so-fa so good, but not much further! --Light current 05:43, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations, you are now a successful hacker. Putting a solid rod in the center of a tubular structural member does not make a lot of sense. It would have been stronger if heaver tubing had been used instead. Oh, well. Edison 15:58, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like a quick fix to me. That is, they realized after they were built that it wasn't strong enough, but, at that point, it was cheaper to jam a rod inside than to disassemble and rebuild the frame using thicker tube stock. StuRat 05:57, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

General body info

What is the difference between high biological value protiens and low biological value protiens? I can't make any sense of our article on Biological Value, so I have no idea. Also, why exactly do the dietary requirements of male and femals differ? Is it something to do with body weight? And how it is normally seen that men are more active than women? Cheers. 81.131.60.129 23:10, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, this is new to me but after looking at the article: Apparently some proteins are better assimilated by the body than others, i.e. a greater percentage of some proteins is used by the body for cell building and repair vs. passing through the body and being excreted. The way they determine the BV is by looking at nitrogen; all proteins contain nitrogen so if you can track how much goes in vs how much comes out then you can figure how much of the protein was used by the body. I would not want to be the chemist. --Justanother 23:27, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Try Misplaced Pages:Reference desk/Science. NeonMerlin 01:05, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Taxes

If I am an American citizen who filed taxes already for 2005 and recieved a refund from my w-2s. But because of a ss # error in a general contractor job. I never reported income on a 1099 for the wages paid. But then filled out a w-9 for the employer to give them the right ss #. How do I go about paying those taxes... Plain and simple. I didnt file for a general contracting job because they had the wrong social security number, but now the IRS has the right info. I am sure it is only a matter of time before I get a letter. Will they ever find out? How can I fix this problem and get them their money? Can I still write off any of it? And no... Going to the irs website is even more confusing! THANKS!

You should be able to file an amended return and pay any taxes due then wait and see if they assess interest and penalties. --Justanother 02:44, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Much better to go ahead and calculate and pay the interest so it won't keep accumulating at a high rate. They will definitely want the interest, at least. (This is on the Federal level. Although the IRS communicates things like this to states, some states are inconsistent with gettting their $$$.) -THB 04:30, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Consult a tax preparer, they can tell you what form to use. RJFJR 14:23, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

It's a 1040X. See: IRS Topic 308:Amended Returns. -THB 15:18, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Assuming you really were a contractor under the IRS definitions, you may deduct or depreciate your expenses on 1040 Schedule C. (There are some options which could only be taken on an original return, or an amended return filed within 6 months of the original due date, but there aren't many.) You will also need to get a schedule SE (if your net income from the contracting job exceeds $400/0.9375 ~ $433), and fresh copies of all schedules which might be affected by changes in your gross, adjusted gross, or taxable income. You then file the resulted returns on a 1040X. If you live or work in a state which has a state income tax, you will also have to file the corresponding state returns. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 19:49, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Arthur, would you recommend that he include interest or wait for the IRS to assess if they care to? Once he pays the taxes due doesn't that cap the potential interest and penalties at the date of payment? --Justanother 15:21, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

mountain range

what is the name of the mountain range that surrounds the valley of Las Vegas Nevada? thank you. Anne Wilson

Could be one of these! --Light current 01:39, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

The Spring Mountains are to the west. -THB 04:38, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Las Vegas is located in the Las Vegas Valley, a desert surrounded by the Spring Mountains and the Sierra Nevada.  --Lambiam 08:31, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Second Life

What is it and can you kill people in it?

Second Life is a "privately owned, partly subscription-based 3-D virtual world". Unsure of second question. Jpeob 03:37, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I believe that you can die/be killed if your health bar goes low enough, but then you just respawn in your house. Skittle 03:50, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

• Wonders about the homeless people...- Mgm| 09:15, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

• • I think, like in the Wild West, everyone gets a plot of land when they start. It just isn't necessarily very nice. Skittle 15:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Editing a Wiki

Dear Sirs, I am enrolled in a graduate class at the University of SC in Columbia, SC. Our class has a "classwiki" with such information as the syllabus, assignments, notes, etc. One of my assignments for the semester was to reorganize the Class Wiki so that it would be easier to use and allow room for growth. There are several things I suggested doing to the page that I don't know if they are possible or not. They are as follows:

• Putting links in a two-column format. (I have looked and looked and tried to play around w/ doing this, but I can’t figure it out. Maybe it’s not possible?)
• I think adding some color would be good if possible. It looks a little dull. I know that doesn’t matter, but aesthetics are important up to a point right?
• How about a scrolling message bar at the top for important announcements, like our upcoming online meeting for example?

Thanks for any info you can give me.

Sincerely, Mary Catherine Carroll Lexington, SC

Well, this wiki can be coded in standard HTML in addition to its own markup language. Take some lessons in HTML and go from there. --Justanother 03:04, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Why do you assume that all of us here are "sirs"? User:Zoe|(talk) 03:35, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Everybody on the internet is assumed to be a man, silly. X (DESK|How's my driving?) 05:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

On the Internet, Nobody Knows You're a Dog.  --Lambiam 08:36, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

As we in /b/ like to say, "there are no womenz on teh internets". --Wooty Woot? contribs 05:29, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Spelling. Probably meant to say Dears Curs 8-)--Light current 05:40, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

To try and answer your questions, for the first, see Help:Tables. Many articles here have columns in them, e.g. List of people in Playboy 2000-present. Color is possible using standard HTML markup. I'm not sure if there's any wiki code for colors. And depending on your wiki software, blinking or scrolling text may be disabled. I know it is here and thus I'm not sure how you would go about using it on your wiki. Dismas| 06:37, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

A scrolling banner could be realized within the limits imposed here as an animated gif.  --Lambiam 08:41, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Animated GIFs are hard to update. In any case one should generally not use a scrolling banner — they are cheesy, hard to read, and generally ineffective at getting attention. With a Wiki it is better to use a box with a strong text color, like the one a user sees when they have messages on their talk page. --24.147.86.187 15:08, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree that scrolling message bars are incredibly annoying. Sometimes if you miss the first word or two you have no idea what the message is until it repeats - and if the message is long or if there's more than one of them, it can be an exercise in extreme frustration. The less animation you have on a page, the easier it is for readers to get information as quickly as possible. The best way in my opinion is to have a text box containing bold text, possibly with the background being a pale pastel to contrast with the rest of the page (which should have a white background). --Charlene 01:38, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

The Nutcracker

How tall does the Christmas Tree grow in the Grand Rapids Ballet's version of "The Nutcracker"? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.11.115.97 (talk • contribs) .

Ask them: contact info. -THB 15:16, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

November 21

Custom username styling in Misplaced Pages

I notice that in Talk pages such as this, some users have their usernames styled differently to others (eg using colours / borders / talk and contrib links etc) I've tried looking for information on how to do this but to no avail. Can someone point me to an article about how to do it? Sp0ng 12:40, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Check out WP:SIG and WP:SIGHELP. It also helps to look at the markup that other folk use. People copy from each other quite freely. --Shantavira 12:47, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Also look at Help:Wikitext examples for details of markup. Don't forget to ensure your user name remains clearly legible.--Shantavira 12:54, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

How do they do it?

Do they cut and paste their signature every time? -THB 15:13, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

No, you just paste the HTML code into the Signature field of your user profile, and check the Raw Signature box. --Richardrj 15:20, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Nope. Although you should read the links too, the short answer is that it replaces our ~~~~ and is set in my preferences. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 15:21, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Aah, thanks. -THB 16:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Fashion Styling

It is strange to find that though Fashion Styling is a major course in Fashion institutes and it is major field in fashion industry it is no where mentioned in wikipedia, google or any such type of search engines. I would like to know about Fashion Styling - 1)Qualification 2)Requirement 3)Career/Future 4)Limitations 5)Problems in this field 6)Impact and more. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mini jethwa (talk • contribs)

I don't know about no hits on google I found lots for both "Fashion Styling", and "Fashion Stylist" and there was an article on wikipedia but it has now gone meltBanana 21:05, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Bomb

Is it actually illegal to shout bomb on an airplane or to shout fire in a crowded area or other such things? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.164.200.24 (talk • contribs)

Depending on where you live it can be. Such things can cause a panic which can cause bodily harm to others. See Shouting fire in a crowded theater, Imminent lawless action, and Solicitation. Weregerbil 16:53, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

The last guy who shouted "bomb" on an airplane in Miami was instantly shot and killed. -THB 16:57, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Not instantly at all. Read the story. alteripse 17:33, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

"Conflicting reports put the number of shots between 3 and 6." People are so messed up under stress that they can't even remember that. X (DESK|How's my driving?) 17:23, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I only hope "shout" is the operative word there. I'd hate to ask a fellow passenger "so is it true we're not allowed to say 'bomb 'on this airplane?" only to be instantly killed by security forces. JIP | Talk 18:36, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

That's really scary. *Bam!!* "On this plane, we don't end a sentence with a preposition!" --Kjoonlee 02:56, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

If you see your old friend Jack in an airport or on a plane, under no circumstances should you shout "HI, JACK!!!" Edison 06:45, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Cost of current wars

According to USA Today, Iraq, Afghanistan and the war on terror have collectively cost $536 billion (and the Pentagon is asking for another $127 billion), compared to $3.6 trillion (adjusted for inflation) for all of World War II. How can these relatively short and small wars already cost 1/7 what was spent on a global war involving millions of Americans? Is it higher wages for volunteer vs. drafted soldiers? Expensive high tech weapons? Clarityfiend 17:21, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

It's probably all the tech we're using. It's also funny that we're fighting a war that is looking for the least number of enemy casualties, so that costs more money to us. X (DESK|How's my driving?) 17:25, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Ummm .. do you perhaps mean "looking for the least number of civilian casualties" ? Gandalf61 17:38, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm assuming they adjusted for inflation? -THB 17:29, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

German cities were larger than Afghan villages. It costs more money to bomb them.Mr.K. 21:21, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

November 22

Need a Book Title

I need some help on a book title. It's from some fat Texas preacher and talks about World War III and how God will defeat the Muslims and shit like that. I know that the title starts with "Countdown". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blueflashlight07 (talk • contribs)

I'm guessing it's Jerusalem Countdown by John Hagee. Wareh 01:16, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Another televangelist to add to my list of human scum, I see. :-) StuRat 05:46, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Cape Horn

Am I the only one who sees no galery, but default example "pictures" in Cape Horn? Thanks, I just want to check that it's not just my browser or something like that. --Ibn Battuta 00:30, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Should it have a gallery? Vitriol 00:49, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Looks fine to me in IE6. It has several pics but no "gallery" as such.--Shantavira 09:02, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

untitled question

Do you have any interest in a set of Gem lessons from 1985, which were printed by a mimeograph machine. I have a full set of lessons, with the tests filled out and returned to me. I am 85 years old, and retired for some time, so I am getting ready to clean house around here. I found these lessons and also a copy of Dictionary of Gems & Gemology by Robert M Shipley, 4th edition; also a copy of the Story of Sterling by The Sterling Silveersmiths Guild of America.

(address removed)

Hi, the refdesk for factual questions, so you're unlikely to get any interest here. If you want to sell your books and lessons, you might try eBay. --Wooty Woot? contribs 01:23, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages does not itself maintain any "hard" archives of reference materials used in the articles. What people usually do (I hope) is write the articles from their understanding of the subject and reference them using "hard" and/or internet references. If you have interest you may want to look at some of the Gem and related articles and see if there is anything in those reference materials that would enhance the articles then write the appropriate portion(s) (do not copy verbatum from the references obviously as that would be plagiarism). Then you can sell them on eBay as you do not have to keep them just because you referenced them. Good luck in either case. --Justanother 03:05, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I LOVED the smell of freshly duplicated Mimeographs in the day,(or Dittos more likely) but alas the fumes have faded. Edison 06:48, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Featured Article

Sorry if I'm asking this in the wrong place, but how is the daily Misplaced Pages featured article chosen? Is it chosen at random, or is it the newest addition to the pool of Featured Articles? The Ayatollah 01:32, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

There is a vote, but that's about all I know. 152.3.73.203 01:42, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

It is done through WP:TFA. Cbrown1023 01:44, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Offtopic alert! You know you spend too much time on Slashdot when you are shocked that someone would use the acronym "TFA" on the ref desk before you realize it means "today's featured article." 152.3.73.203 01:49, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, you are right, when I said TFA I wasn't saying "The Fucking Article", I was saying "Today's Featured Article." Cbrown1023 01:53, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Not to sound to al-qaeda'ish but...

would a well placed "standard" (whatever that means)nuclear bomb in the san andreas fault cause southern california to fall in the ocean and create an Arizona Bay?

--maynard james keenan

No. B00P 02:18, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

To elaborate on the No. Faults occur because of tectonic plates, bombs are very unlikely to create a reaction that leaves enough force to change the earth's very tectionic movements. Also, Southern California cannot "fall" into the ocean; at least not the whole thing. You may want to check out Plate tectonics#Types of plate boundaries. Cbrown1023 02:23, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Bill Hicks and Lex Luthor both dreamed of Arizona Bay. Vespine 03:29, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

It is reminiscent of Zorin's scheme.  --Lambiam 04:50, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Hell no. Many orders of magnitude too small. Edison 06:48, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

The above user put it well. --Proficient 03:54, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Pencil Sharpener

What is the best pencil sharpener? By best, I mean in the categories of speed, evenness of the sharpen, pointy-ness of the point, and life span. Manual/electric doesn't matter, neither does cost.-67.172.248.207 03:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Were you thinking of buying one, or are you just interested?--Light current 04:04, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm on a quest to find the greatest sharpener, I guess I'm a little obsessed with it.-67.172.248.207 04:09, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

The absolute best is a good quality little manual about an inch long, usually milled from aluminum alloy and available at art supply stores. They allow you to control exactly the point without breaking the lead. The blades can be changed. See image or the article pencil sharpener that shows a double model to allow for different angles. -THB 04:32, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I prefer something like the above, but with a cup added to collect the filings, which can be quite messy, as the graphite powder smears on clothing, paper, etc. StuRat 05:39, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Assuming you really want a pencil sharpener and don't want to use a knife or kraftknife to sharpen/sculpt your pencil/lead which allows for different surfaces on the point, the simplest and longest lasting will be the metal one described above especially as you can switch old blades. You can however find one than will give you an even sharper pencil, it basically sharpens it so the point is much longer and forms a smaller angle, it also makes it more fragile. I know these are available in Japan an South Korea for comic book authors and animators so you might want to try and check their supply stores or get a native to do it for you. They might be available closer to you if you live close to/in a big arty city. There also exist very small sharpeners designed to sharpen the leads of grip pencils. these usually work from 0.5 to 3mm diameter and can be used to a certain extent on pencills to. These ara also available from big online art supply stores. The best way to get a perfect finish on your sharpening is to use very fine sandpaper or more practicaly the red spatula of sandpaper used for filing nails. These can also be found in artshops and the latter will be in beauty stores. The quality of your sharpened point will greatly depend on the quality and the hardness of your pencil. Keria 08:21, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Coin collecting terms

What does the RD, Type 1, Type 2 and other designators mean to coin collectors? I have found these listed in coin collector books but I can't find any reference to what they mean or how one would know by looking at the coin. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

See this coin glossary. All your questions answered, and more! -THB 04:30, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Might Type Set be about that? If the info is missing, please add it. DirkvdM 06:56, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Is it just my browser or does it look like someone randomly tossed a handful of coins on that article? -THB 09:35, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

It wasn't just your browser. I tried to clean it up a bit. Seems like the table could do some repair, too, and perhaps the correct capitalization would be type set. –mysid☎ 13:16, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

French and English accounts

I am not sure this is the place for this question, but it is the only place I could think of. In any case, it is short.

I have signed up for an account on Misplaced Pages's English site. I tried singing in on the French site later with the same account, but was unable to do so. Does this mean that I need to create a second account for the French site? I am bilingual and would like to work on both, but I just want to make sure before creating a second account for nothing.

I am very new (signed up today), so please be patient with me. Atsinganoi 05:13, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

The different language Wikipedias indeed have different users, so you will have to create an account in the French Misplaced Pages, too. –mysid☎ 05:23, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Although this may change at some point in the future, accounts between various language wikipedias are currently independent so (for now) you'll need two separate accounts. -- Rick Block (talk) 05:22, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Hi Atisnganoi, Welcome to Misplaced Pages! I'm still pretty new, too, so please be just as patient with my answer! :o) ... But I've already found out this much: Yes, you do have to create a new account for each and every wikipedia into which you want to sign in. The different Wikipedias are on different servers, so it's unfortunately not possible to sign into the French Misplaced Pages with your English account. (I read somewhere that there may be plans to change this... on the other hand, I imagine that it's not very easy because--apart from all the technical problems--many user names probably exist in several Wikipedias...) Good luck, --Ibn Battuta 05:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for the info everyone.Atsinganoi 05:29, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Copyright of stamps from

I've read somewhere on this (or a different???) Misplaced Pages that one country/territory generally publishes stamps under a licence that would probably allow to use the stamps on Misplaced Pages (I think it was public domain). Now I'm looking for 1) the page where it said that, so that I can verify whether it was in fact public domain; 2) the name of the country/territory--I think it was an island/ archipelago that belongs to Britain (could have been the Falklands? Or much closer to Britain??). Sorry, I didn't think I'd ever need information about stamps, so I didn't pay much attention then... and I've been trying to find this information, but to no avail. Generally I would appreciate any information about opportunities to browse Misplaced Pages's help section or whatever (is there any search option or so??)--I've always a hard time finding what I'm looking for... Thanks for your help. --Ibn Battuta 05:18, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

The article for the United States Postal Service goes into this very topic. It seems that stamps printed before 1978 are in the public domain. After that, you have to get written permission from the USPS for their use. Dismas| 06:36, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Um, I'm afraid the US don't really qualify as an island/ archipelago that belongs to Great-Britain... :o) ... so I'm afraid I'm looking for a different page. --Ibn Battuta 08:15, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

• I suspect stamps by some British island would be under Crown copyright, not in the public domain. - 131.211.210.14 08:35, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

What about the Channel Islands? A smallish archipelago, and a Crown dependency, much closer to mainland Britain than the Falklands, though they are, in large measure, politically and financially self-governing. I'm not sure how this affects the issue-and usage-of postage stamps. Clio the Muse 08:45, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

If you want to search Misplaced Pages, use Google and search "site:http://en.wikipedia.org" plus your search terms. Or your favourite search engine with whatever coding works for them :-) Skittle 21:35, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

What is the safest way to remove hair from your balls?

So, can waxing do it or what? Or is it just careful use of an electric razor? .V. 05:52, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Just don't use depilatory cream. Probably it's best to trim it with rounded-nose scissors. -THB 06:27, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Depends on how much of it you want gone. I've tried shaving once or twice (itchy as hell while it's growing back), and generally go for scissors to get the bulk, followed by a Bic disposable razor for the rest (do we really not have an article on disposable razors?). Can't say I've had much experience of waxing, but if you do go for it, cut the hair to a minimal length first. GeeJo ⁄_(c) • 08:11, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Waxing and shaving both work well - just ensure you ask for 'hot wax' and not 'strip wax' as it is much less painful. And don't trim too much! The waxist will trim your hair to the correct length for you if it's too long. My boyfriend's electric razor specifically says it's not to be used anywhere but the face, but a wet razor works well. Waxing results in finer regrowth and you don't have to do it as often, but it's more expensive than shaving. Natgoo 08:40, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Jeez, a razor? That sounds dangerous. Scissors might be fine, but I'd say raking your package up and down with a sharp metal blade should be a last resort. I guess the waxing might be fine. Does plucking work? .V. 10:59, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Heh, you just need to be careful, and after the first few times you'll know the way your hairs grow and you'll be an old pro. You could maybe try having someone else do it for you? Whipped cream is just as effective as shaving cream (and far tastier) :) Plucking would work fine, but it would take forever - the result would be the same as for waxing, I'd imagine. Natgoo 16:19, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm amazed we have so many experts on this topic. StuRat 16:51, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

We need a nurse who has actually done this in preparation for an operation.--Light current 17:40, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Umm, unfortunately, that would be me. He asked for the safest method and I gave it. If he needs it baby-ass smooth, and insists on shaving the scrotom and perianal area, it would be best to have someone else do it. It's very easy to nick the skin down there--lots of loose skin, little bumps, folds, etc. Also there are lots of small blood vessels so if there is a nick, it bleeds a lot.

I would guess that there are two primary reasons that so many people seem to know about it: supposedly it increases sensation and some people don't like to perform oral sex on hairy genitalia.

Pre-op shaving is much less rarely done these days, the theory being that shaving the skin and removing the hair creates avenues for infection. -THB 21:39, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and I'm willing to bet that the people recommending waxing the scrotum haven't actually tried it. -THB 21:40, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

That may be due to the fact that I don't have one - my boyfriend does, though, and gets waxed regularly, and recommends it. Natgoo 22:29, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I have had my back waxed and can't imagine a. the hot wax on my scrotum and b. the ripping out of the hair. However, some people enjoy this sort of thing. -THB 00:30, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

And some people just like the result. The 'back, sack and crack' wax is quite popular among men. Natgoo 09:54, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

And I am absolutely positive that the person recommending PLUCKING the hairs one at a time from the scrotum has never done it. -THB 21:58, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

THank you for that insight THB! You hae put into words what I could not. The small blood vessels, loose skin etc. Thats why I would have thought: waxing was the best alternative. BTW are you a male or female nurse? (Just interseted) BTW would you think it possible that you could merge all your above posts into one Thanks!--Light current 22:29, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Last time I checked, male. *checks* Yep, still am. -THB 00:30, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I have no personal experience (wink) but er, I'm told that the Gillette Mach 3 razor (with shaving cream or gel, I prefer gel) is very effective and nick-free. Do it in the shower, and apply a little aloe-based gel lotion when you're done and out of the shower. It's only itchy when you haven't done it for two or three days and the hair starts to grow back out. 192.168.1.1 5:16pm, 22 November 2006 (PST)

I'm sorry I just have to have to ask, Is it really worth the effort and possible or should I say probable pain?AMX 19:49, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Studio Ghibli

Hi. I am currently doing a school project on the production of animation. I am finding it a little bit difficult to find myself the right information. So I was wondering if you would be able to help me out. I am mainly looking for the proccess' that Studio Ghibli goes through in making there animation movies. Your help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.153.212.133 (talk • contribs)

Studio Ghibli uses traditional animation techniques. There is plenty of information in the article.--Shantavira 09:13, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

They recently switched to a digital colouring system for their animation replacing the traditionnal cell painting. They also use computers to composite the finished animation onto the final background, although the linetest animation (sketched, not yet inked animation) is tested over the original layout drawing for the background. They use computer animation, both 2d and 3d, to enhance certain shots. You might rember the "spirit's bath" shot from Chihiro/Spirited Away where a lot of 2d vector animation was used to create the ripples of mud on the main character. These are all recent additions to their otherwise traditional animation technique. If you can get their DVDs a lot of their techniques are explained in the bonuses User:Keria20:22, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

There are also "the art of" books for some of their films, like Spirited Away, that contain a lot of lovely pictures and good information. --jpgordon 20:41, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Symbol identification needed

What, exactly, does this symbol mean?

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c163/chris_bramley/symbol.jpg Harwoof 09:45, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't know, but may I ask you to provide some more background on it? (where did you see it or what was the context)... It really helps because symbols can have a number of meanings. ☢ Ҡi∊ff⌇↯ 09:52, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I saw it spraypainted over town while I was out and it piqued my curiosity, so I don't think context especially helps. Harwoof 10:05, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Could be hobo code, or maybe just a gang signature. ☢ Ҡi∊ff⌇↯ 11:13, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Could also be a Chinese character imposed on a circle. 中 means "middle" in Chinese. --Kjoonlee 17:00, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Looks like a symbol for a component of an electronic circuit diagram. Readro 00:00, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Husband and wife serial killer.

I recall reading on Misplaced Pages an article about a husband and wife serial killer. I can't recall their names, but I believe they were in Canada (or maybe North America). Does anyone have any idea who I'm talking about?

There is probably more than one of these combinations. However, the only example that springs to mind is Rosemary West and her husband Fred West. British, though, rather than North American. Clio the Muse 10:03, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Don't know about North America, but in England there were Fred and Rosemary West. --Richardrj 10:04, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I beat you to it, Richard, though by a whisker, I admit! Clio the Muse 10:06, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Next time, Clio, I shall prevail! Mwa-ha-ha-ha! --Richardrj 10:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Doods, it's Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka. Anchoress 10:16, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Copyright status of the Red Cross symbol

What do you say, is the Red Cross symbol considered to be eligible for copyright? I'm thinking mainly of the cross itself, but as a bonus, its sister symbols could be considered as well. —Bromskloss 10:25, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Symbols and logos are generally trademarked, rather than copyrighted. Regardless, as Emblems of the Red Cross outlines, the use of the Red Cross is governed by the Geneva conventions rather than strictly by copyright law. GeeJo ⁄_(c) • 10:28, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

OK. So, the Geneva convention aside, what am I not allowed to do with a trademarked symbol? And as for the Geneva convention, while I'm not a signatory of it, I am a citizen of a nation that is. Is it reasonable to believe that I am prohibited by the law (of the country I live in) to use it? Perhaps the same goes for the world heritage symbol? Actually UNESCO says that it's protected by the "World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) act" . Is that something only members of the UN must adhere to? (As if almost every country wasn't a member.) —Bromskloss 10:54, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

That's not strictly correct. Logos are copyrighted, just like any other two dimensional works of art. That's why on Misplaced Pages, we use logos under fair use provisions. Trademarking logos is a separate issue; that's to stop competitors or someone else from using a really similar logo for their own product or organisation. enochlau (talk) 12:37, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Not everything gets copyright. If it's too simple or just just common knowledge, it's not protected. A recording of a sine wave and an image of a circle would be examples, if you'd ask me. There is even a category for this kind of things. —Bromskloss 13:36, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, of course. But the others that we've been discussing don't really fall into that category, although a red cross is arguable. enochlau (talk) 13:49, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I was of the impression that it might. That's why I thought I'd ask the reference desk. :-) —Bromskloss 14:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

The Red Cross image is in the PD-ineligible category on the commons.  --Lambiam 14:46, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

As I side note I remember the red cross organisation complaining about the use of the cross in computer games see Red Cross wants logo out of violent video games http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=388d6b05-1e55-4fc6-8f73-6e822e3db23f&k=1834487.102.36.82 15:28, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I remember reading that about the red-cross, you would think that anything that improves people's knowledge of them being a 'help' (particularly health wise) would be good. Still I seem to remember a time many moons ago when computer game developers used to PAY firms to add their name into the game (to add to the realism), i'm guessing now that has mostly changed to be the other way around!! ny156uk 18:33, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Perpetual calendar in the head

I have heard of people who, when told a date, can say what day of the week it was. For example, being given the random day of October 1, 1995, and determining that it is a Sunday. What should one do to start learning this technique? Thanks! Reywas92 15:28, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think it's a perpetual calendar, but rather simple mathematics learned. (There's other people who could memorize large maps of cities and long lists from the Yellow Pages, though, I think it's largely genetical...) 惑乱 分からん 16:11, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Please see Calculating the day of the week. -- Rick Block (talk) 16:46, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the original poster is looking for autistic savant. In short, these people who have perpetual caldendars in their heads are usually autistic. They are either born with it or experiences seizures in their childhood that changes some chemicals in their brain. The Ayatollah 20:00, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Sensible ghost removal

Does anyone have some rational reasonable advice for removing a ghost from a house? And I don't mean "get over it" from skeptics, or elaborate exorcisms from fanatics. I'm looking for some fairly simple way of communicating that it has better places to be, and encouraging it to go there. Mothperson cocoon 16:13, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Have you tried simply telling the spirit exactly that in a calm, rational, friendly manner. You might not know exactly where it is; assuming that you do not perceive the spirit directly but have some feeling or indications of its existence; so you might try repeating the communication in different areas of the house or at different times. You may be interested that at a Scientology funeral service the minister speaks directly to the spirit and urges the dead person to "end cycle" on their now-past life and begin a new one. Here is a reference that includes a few key lines from the ceremony, I wish I could give you a link to the full text. "We do not contest your right to go away. Your debts are paid. This chapter of thy life is shut. Go now, dear , and live once more in happier time and place. Thank you, ." --Justanother 16:22, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Cool. Thanks. It's actually in a friend's house, and we kind of know where it hangs out, but the idea of repeating the message in various areas seems like a good one. And I like the message. Mothperson cocoon 17:04, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

You are very welcome. And I did find a bit more of the full text; look at page 14 here. The language is somewhat flowery as it is designed for a service but you can change it as you see fit; the idea is there. Good luck! --Justanother 17:19, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't there be some kind of rule against proselytising on the Reference Desk? I realise that on topics like this it may be unavoidable. By the way, I'm not bigoted against Scientologists, I'm bigoted against all religions ;P Vitriol 19:06, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations, you're proud of being a bigot! Have fun embracing your ignorance. -- Abnerian 11:19, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, did I somewhere say "Go become a Scientologist"? The OP asked a question that Scientology directly addresses (and specifically implied that skeptics need not reply). I gave the answer and the source of the answer. I am a Scientologist and when questions call for an answer that Scientology provides I do not hide where the answer comes from. You can take it or leave it. Would you like a string theorist to refrain from answering questions about string theory because you think it is hokum? I am not really interested in your bigotries nor do I expect you to be interested in mine. --Justanother 19:32, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

On a more scientific level, you can have a big party, redecorate, and check for mould. I find that you enter a certain atmosphere, and you can sense a ghost. This does not mean there actually is one, but you are having a deep, fundamental human reaction. --Zeizmic 18:21, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Why do you need the party and the redecorate? BTW, all due respect, but when you insist on trying to fit "science" to something that it does not address you are practicing Scientism. Just in case you did not already know. --Justanother 19:41, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I totally wasn't trying to be offensive. I guess what I was trying to say was that anybody can say "do this rite or prayer or whatever" or say their religion's viewpoint on most any question and then we can all argue about it. This question was probably a daft question to bring it up on because there are no hard answers. You could say that trying to impose a scientific viewpoint on something totally disconnected to science is the same thing, and that'd be right; I was just trying to make a general point, but I did it poorly. Sorry. Vitriol 19:55, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I am not a fan of any organized religion. Scientology actually gives me the creeps. As do all other religions. But I did not think Justanother was proselytizing at all. It was an interesting take on my question. I was asking for a practical answer, and really, having a big party and checking for mould is not going to work. If you don't choose to be aware of stuff that may be uncomfortable for you, that's fine, but - uh - you don't need to proselytize about your point of view. Mothperson cocoon 19:56, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, lordy. Never mind. I thought if I could get some sensible answers anywhere it would be Misplaced Pages, but I certainly did not mean to start an unpleasantness. I'll figure it out myself. Now where's that damn piñon incense? Mothperson cocoon 20:01, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

No bother. Misplaced Pages can be a lively forum. While, after seeing some of the questions asked here, I might not say there no such thing as a stupid question; this is certainly not a stupid question. Many people believe in spirits and the OP wondered what one might say to one to urge it to go away. I had a decent answer for him/her. Science only addresses the measurable and there is much more in Heaven and Earth, Horatio. Some questions are best answered by physics and others are best answered by religion. Let's not limit ourselves here, please. --Justanother 21:23, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the problem is that "sensible ghost removal" is a bit of an oxymoron. -THB 21:32, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Only to people that think ghosts make no sense; which is probably the minority on planet Earth. THB, all love but you are confusing science with reason and scientific with rational. Science is this very specific activity having to do with that which is measurable with scientific instruments. I, for one, do not limit my experience nor my reason to that. --Justanother 21:40, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, THB if it's your agreement with your world that the removal of ghosts, sensibly or otherwise, is an oxymoron, so be it. Good luck with that. I'm obviously somewhere else. Mothperson cocoon 21:52, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm just saying there's no scientific way of getting rid of a ghost. Best to light a candle and say some mumble-jumble. -THB 21:57, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't asking for a scientific method. I was just asking for some advice. Yes, we will light a candle and say some mumble-jumble, but it would be nice if it were sort of meaningful mumble-jumble. OXYMORON, I know! Mothperson cocoon 22:01, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I would agree with the person above who said to be direct and forthright and just tell it that there are better places for it to be and you would appreciate it if it went somewhere else. Most people don't hang around where they're not wanted and if ghosts are the spirits of the dead I see no reason they should be any different. I would be extremely polite about it, however. Like breaking up with someone that you care about. -THB 00:27, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Talking about reason: Would not researching the history of the house and occupants and trying to figure out what the poor soul's possible problem is be reasonable? That sounds reasonable in everyday life. It also sounds reasonable to ask the fellow what the problem is directly. From the above it seems as if you can use any language you wish, since no one mentioned which one to use. Seejyb 00:48, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah. Well. Other problems emerge here. We may know who it is, and I think - taking your language suggestion more literally than you meant - we are going to have to speak Italian. I don't suppose there is anyone around who would be willing to give me a sensible address to a ghost in Italian. I'll go crack the books. Thank you all for your suggestions. Mothperson cocoon 15:02, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

finding out sex of a kitten

how old does a cat have to be before the sex can be determined?

Some weeks in the womb, likely. 惑乱 分からん 17:17, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the question was about kittens, not feline foetuses. --Kjoonlee 17:30, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, were you saying that it's possible to find out even with newborn kittens? --Kjoonlee 17:37, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

The sex can be determined at birth. Dismas| 17:58, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Exactly as I believed, couldn't see any reason than why cats should be any different than human (where however, it generally is quite obvious) or most other mammals. It could possibly be difficult to find out by laymen, however, I'm no "ailurologist"... 惑乱 分からん 18:05, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I think most mammals can withdraw their penises, a talent humans don't have. Could be (read: probably) wrong though. Vitriol 18:56, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think they can retract their testicles tho. Anchoress 20:11, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Funny people making guesses! The way to tell is simply to lift up the tail. No, on the kittens, there won't be visible testes or penises. But there will always be two holes. The one on top is the same for both sexes. (Kinda like humans.) The one on the bottom is either a dot or an exclamation point. The dot's the boy, the ! is a girl. --jpgordon 20:19, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Someone with experience can determine the sex at birth. See comparative photos at eight weeks that describe the dot vs. slit. -THB 20:28, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Good pics. Bad information there about color, though. Yes, almost all (99%+, I think) calico/tortie cats are female -- it's due to a disagreement between the two X chromosomes regarding suppressing the color and coming out with orange instead. Males can't have the conflict. But females can have two sets of the color suppressors too, so though there are more orange males than females, there aren't enough for it to be even a remotely reliable sex indicator. Check out for a good writeup on cat genetics, if you're interested. --jpgordon 20:40, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

There are a very small mumber of male calicos, but they're almost all deaf. User:Zoe|(talk) 02:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

More to the point, they're almost all sterile -- XXY and other such unusual chromosomal patterns. --jpgordon 03:04, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Getting back to the original question, at birth the shape of the genital opening in males and females is fairly similar, but in males you will see a slight protuberance above the opening. This is the scrotum. --Joelmills 04:22, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

• It's easier to tell in the first few days than any other time until they become sexually mature but Everyone else has the gist of how to do it,holes next to each othe ,female. a little apart,male.hotclaws**== 13:46, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Mysterious official vehicle

The other day I saw an unmarked black 4x4 vehicle with tinted windows and flashing purple-blue lights, flanked by several police cars and fire engines. Any idea what this sort of vehicle might be? (the only thought that springs to mind for me is men in black!) Laïka 17:26, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Just to clarify, this was in the United Kingdom, on a normal city road (not restricted access or anything). Laïka 17:36, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Fire/police chief?--Light current 17:36, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

No; where I live, the fire chief drives a red Smart Fortwo; silly but effective. Laïka 17:42, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like the vehicle driven by the Torchwood team. Were you near Cardiff when you saw it ? Gandalf61 20:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

That's what I thought, too (for those that haven't seen Torchwood)! But no, it wasn't the same one. Laïka 22:11, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

It's the partyvan! Seriously, though, it's probably a police van. --Wooty Woot? contribs 20:16, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Anaesthesia-induced nocturnal erections?

I am going in for major abdominal surgery shortly and as an otherwise healthy male, I am curious to know whether during the operation, whilst under the general anaesthetic, I might experience the same involuntary nocturnal erections I have when sleeping normally (so my wife tells me). If so, what do the medical team do - laugh out loud, ignore it, or hit it with a handy piece of surgical equipment? White Squirrel 17:39, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

My guess is, people being people, a discrete snicker or rolled eye and then carry on. You'll never know. --Justanother 18:02, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Or being professional, hardly notice it... =S Don't know whether anaestasia affects erection, however if it does, I don't think the surgeons would care much about it. Maybe slightly lifting it upwards if it interfers with the operation area. @_@ 惑乱 分からん 18:10, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I've heard of this happening, though I don't know how common it is. A nurse I know told me the standard procedure is to put cold water on it.--Shantavira 18:52, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I am sure that they would be professional. I don't know what the etiquette is in an OR; probably my "discrete snicker or rolled eye" would be considered bad manners; maybe a lifted eyebrow? I just think that if the OR staff is a tight group with a sense of humor that it would not go totally unmarked. --Justanother 19:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I can't speak about the OR in particular, but generally speaking, if there is a situation in a hospital where erections occur, the staff has seen them a thousand times and couldn't care less about it, so there is no reason for you to worry. The only situation I can recall where it was ever even mentioned was a 90 something year old man in diapers, late stage Alzheimers, when the nurse went in to change the diapers twice, waiting for the (rather large) erection to go away. It never became flaccid because it was a permanently rigid prosthesis, but she didn't know about those until she asked another nurse why it wouldn't "go away". Better to worry about the outcome of the surgery. -THB 21:30, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Since it came up on a question above, I was the nurse she asked. Yes, it took a good ten minutes for us to stop laughing about it enough to function. It was in the middle of the night and the patient wasn't aware of what was going on. -THB 21:44, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Umm, anaesthesia generally involves not only a pain and consciousness suppressant but also a paralysis/ muscle relaxant, so that the patient doesn't involuntarily move during the procedure. I doubt you get erections during general, but even if you do, to put it into perspective, surgeons dissect corpses at med school, by the time they work on their 1st patient they have seen much much more then an erect penis, they've seen one carved into components! It's what they get the big bucks for.Vespine 22:27, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

• yeah smackheads rarely have erections so I think the anesthetic would take care of it. hotclaws**== 13:48, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Come, come THB, as a professional nurse, you shoulsd be acting professionally, and surely not making fun of patients' (who are unconcious) uncontrollable bodily functions. 8-(--Light current 22:40, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmm. The way I read that comment, the laughter wasn't for the erection itself (which, remember, THB apparently already knew about), but for the mental image of the new nurse just standing there staring at a permanent erection, waiting for it to go away, which it of course never will. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 23:10, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes well. Women should not laugh at erections whatever the cause. They are natural and mostly involuntary. It is discrimination against the male sex to make fun. Its like men making fun of a womans moistness or periods (or their Chapel hat pegs when its cold). 8-(--Light current 23:32, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Chapel hat pegs! I've never heard that one, it took me a second to figure it out. ;) Dina 23:46, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes you could say its a bit nippy in here!--Light current 23:49, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

As you are going to be have a general anaesthetic I really don't think you have anything to worry about. Its not as though the surgical team are going to be taking pictures. Speaking as somebody who has had surgery in that area I can tell you that (in the UK atleast) not only are you injected with a general anaethetic but also a gel is applied to your body which covers about a foot radius from the main incision, it has been 7 years since I had the operation and I STILL can't feel parts of my upper left leg properly. AMX 19:39, 23 November 2006 (UTC)AMX

In the course of their work, doctors and nurses get to see and hear just about everything, a lot of it much, much weirder than an erect penis on an unconscious person. Consider this tale from an American doctor, for instance. --Robert Merkel 20:40, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Abbreviation conventions

I was directed here by Mr. Jim Redmond from another one of your web sites. My question to him was, is there a convention to abbreviations. A specific eaxample that will fill my need for a client is, (horsepower) Hp, hp, H.p., h.p., HP or H.P. Also (kilowatt) Kw, K.w., kw, k.w. etc. I checked Hyperdictionary and they do not really address it. They hust say for example HP (for horsepower). Again, is there a convention?

Thank you in advance if anyone can shed some light on this subject.

Ken Clark Clark Design (email address redacted)

Under the SI system, kilowatts are written as "kW"; the "W" in watt is uppercase as it is someone's name, "k" is lowercase as it is less than 1×10. Horsepower in general is normally "hp" (all lowercase), but since there are about dozen different types of horsepower, you have to be more clear; say "metric horsepower" or "mechanical horsepower", or simply use watts for everything. Laïka 18:01, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

(edit conflict)To clarify: the basic rules are

• No dots
• Scientific documents should use index notation for "per"; metres per second is "ms", not "m/s" or "mps". Less scientific ones can use "/".
• Any unit named after a person is uppercase (W - watt, N - newton, K - kelvin). Those named after a person with more than one letter have the first letter only in uppercase (Pa - pascal, Gy - Gray). All others are lower case (m -metre, g - gram), including those with more than one letter (rad - radian, kat - katal).
• All SI prefixes less than or equal to "kilo" are lower case (m - milli, μ - micro, d - deci, da - deca), all others are uppercase (M - mega, P - peta, G - giga). This is very important, as the difference between a zm and a Zm is 1×10!

That should be all you need for most purposes, but for a more in-depth version, read The SI brochure Laïka 18:14, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Cool, that is something I have trouble with too. Any ideas about MMBTU or mmBTU for 10 BTU? I have seen it both ways and it is not exactly an SI unit in either format, is it? --Justanother 18:06, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

For British Thermal Units (which are oddly hardly ever found in Britain), use Therms, equal to 10 BTU each. So 1000000 BTU is 10 Therm. Laïka 18:14, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I am "locked into" mmBTU (my favorite) so it has to be MMBTU (MMBtu) or mmBTU (mmBtu). The BTU page actually mentions this but they have MM Btu vs. mm Btu (but not any more - laff), neither of which I have ever seen. --Justanother 18:17, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I'll just sum up the rules for SI abbreviations:

• Never use dots. Write everything together.
• For all units named after common words, not people: write everything in lower case. For units named after people: write the first letter in upper case, all others in lower case.
• For prefixes: all prefixes less than mega (one million times) must be written in lower case. All prefixes from mega and onwards (greater) must be written in upper case. This is important. The difference between m (milli) and M (mega) is one billion (in American). The difference between y (yocto) and Y (yotta) is... how do I write this in American... one quinquedecillion.
• It is "scientific style" to write divisor units with "", but it is not required. The layman form "/" will work just as well. As they are completely equivalent, I can think of no reason to prefer the former other than snobbery.

Hope this helps. JIP | Talk 19:50, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Rather than snobbery, how about clarity? Each unit is clearly marked with its power. Skittle 21:08, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

It's true; when trying to find the Equilibrium constant for an equation for instance, which doesn't have fixed units, it's just a little easier to calculate (mol dm)(mol dm)/(mol dm) than (mol/dm)(mol/dm)/(mol/dm). Incidently, one point we forgot is that when using a unit with two or more units multiplied together, like the newton metre, you put either a space or a "middle dot"; ie N s or N·s, so that...say... "Tesla second" (units T·s) doesn't get confused with "Terrasecond" (units Ts). Laïka 22:23, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Historical Information

1943 - World War II: War in the Pacific - U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt, British Prime Minister Winston Churchill, and Chinese leader Chiang Kai-Shek meet in Cairo, Egypt, have sex to defeat Japan (see Cairo Conference)

Dear Sirs:

This comment above needs to be fixed on the Today in History section. There is no way that could be correct.

Respectfully,

Jim Leach

(email removed)

Jim, that is called vandalism and has already been repaired, see here. You can repair that sort of stuff yourself, see wp:vandalism. --Justanother 19:02, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Theft

If someone has stolen 34 iPods and 10 laptops and they are 17, how much time in jail will they get? 68.100.160.22 21:26, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

What country? --Justanother 21:29, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

United States

Depends on the state, the value of the property, what penalties are prescribed by law, whether you're convicted, whether your'e charged as a juvenile or adult, what the jury or judge thinks appropriate, what your lawyer can arrange. Best to consult a lawyer if this has occurred, or not to do it if it hasn't. -THB 21:49, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

I also understand that if something is 'stolen to order' then this is frowned upon more by the law than basic theft. Organised-crime can be as little as 2 people and a system, and can, if combined with prior offences, lead to some serious jail time. In short THB is right, if it has occured consult a lawyer, if it hasn't don't do it. Theft is more than just potential punishment, it can perpetuate the illegal industries, increases prices on consumer goods, cause strife and heartache for people not to mention the ethical position it leaves the individual/s doing the stealing in. ny156uk 23:29, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

There's a whole industry in the U.S. of people stealing radios, wheels, and whole cars for parts. The insurance company pays to have the stolen items replaced. Ironically, in order to save money, some insurance companies require that used parts must be utilized for replacements. Where do the used parts come from? People who steal them. Viscious cycle. -THB 00:21, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

kings oddfellows

what were the flavours of kings oddfellows there was a yellow, orange, and a pink oneEn.reptile 21:54, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

According to "Oddfellows: A lozenge specially made by a Wishaw Firm for over 100 years. The flavours remain the same- Cinnamon, Clove and Rose." That's all I can find. Skittle 22:36, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

November 23

Disney's "Blue Moon" animated music video.

In the late 1980s I recall seeing a small video by Disney on TV which included many animated Cartoon characters singing to the song "Blue moon" in which many of the characters were active together in scenes doing random events and the video either concluded or started with an animated heart beating.

However, Upon searching for information about this videos creation (such as name, creators, release date) I wasn't able to uncover much. If possible, I would like to know when this video was created because I believe it was created much earlier than the 80s. Also if possible, any other background information on the video would be greatly appreciated. I feel this video was a truly amazing piece done by Disney and it Fascinated me as a child and still intrigues me today even though my memory of it is starting to dull and the facts of the video's creation seems to be lost.

• Do you suppose it's the Blue Moon listed in D-TV? --jpgordon 03:09, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Real Estate Paradox

I am always hearing real estate agents say, "it's a great time to buy a house," and "it's a great time to sell a house." How can both be the case at the same time?

Cause they make money either way! Seriously, I would think that they like to say both when interest rates are low but home prices are high and likely to go higher. It really is a win-win, in some way, I guess. --Justanother 01:09, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Reminds me of an old Chinese story about a blacksmith who advertised his spears as capable of penetrating any armor, and his armor as capable of stopping any spear. No one bought any of his merchandise, obviously. Not exactly the same situation, but close enough ;) --Dr_Dima.

Cars as living entities

Several years ago I read a humorous passage, in I think a magazine or newspaper, that portrayed cars as alive, and humans as some sort of machine that help the cars survive and function. Anyone know of the original source?

I don't know the passage, but there's the 1974 Australian movie The Cars that Ate Paris. JackofOz 02:01, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

In the 1973 book A Random Walk in Science (compiled by Robert L. Weber, edited by Eric Mendoza, published by The Institute of Physics and by Crane, Russak & Co. , ISBN 0-8448-0362-6), there is an item called "Life on Earth (by a Martian)". As the title suggests, this is a report by a visitor from Mars who comes to Earth and assumes that the cars are intelligent and the humans are parasitic organisms (but not machines). This is by Paul A. Weiss and originally appeared in the Rockefeller Institute Review, volume 2, issue number 6. According to this page it has been "widely reprinted". --Anonymous, 07:24 UTC, November 23.

The National Film Board of Canada released a film called "What On Earth!" in 1966 that's basically the same as above: cars are the main organism, and people are the parasites. It's really quite entertaining. Tony Fox (arf!) 17:28, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

scene on porn movie

There is a porn movie that shows a woman has 2 dicks in the ass and 2 in the pussy at the same time, so 4 guys at the same time, or this is impossible to do???

Where would everyone stand?!? --Kurt Shaped Box 02:16, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

It's probably possible, I just don't know why anyone would want to do it. --Wooty Woot? contribs 02:36, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I heard about the DVDA, but our article on the subject (Wonderful Misplaced Pages!) states it's likely impossible... 惑乱 分からん 03:40, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

My first reaction to this question was revultion, then i scratched my chin and thought 'what if you used amputees?' Vespine 04:03, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I should think that if there is a pr0n movie that shows it, it's possible. I just can't imagine who would be enjoying themselves in such an awkward position. -THB 04:38, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the OP means it's rumoured that a Pr0n movie shows it. Vespine 05:46, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I don't see any pictures of such a position on the internet. I have seen pictures of double anal + vaginal and double vaginal + anal so I am quite sure that if it were reasonably possible, there would be pictures and it would be the biggest event in the porn industry and we would have heard about it. I just can't imagine exactly how to get that fourth guy in there. -THB 08:47, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

This mite be a creation of an idle sick mind. Women of the west have become objects of sexual gratification. Thats what the porn movies depict not feminity but repulsive content which eludes the mind of a sick man.

As much as I don't disagree with the above, I'd rather live in that world then the world where someone gets to decide for me which 'questionable' websites should be blocked... And sign your posts! Have the courage to back your conviction. ;) Vespine 21:44, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Help! what is this song called

go to this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i96c75rbti8 watch the video

can you name that song? it was on commercials for GE around 2000

P.S. its not a work safe video sorry Anchoress

Dood, you should warn people that it isn't a worksafe video. I vaguely recognise it, I think the best thing would be to email the creator of the video, or post a comment and ask for the info. Anchoress 02:40, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

ATC Around the World see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_yUpeX3VpI --71.211.191.122 04:40, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

science fair

Sigh, now I have to do a science fair project on decision making instead. How can I 'measure' the decision making process? Survey? Test? Seems so simple yet so vague.

Read The Dice Man and Schrödinger's Kittens maybe? Sorry, bad joke. Start with decision making, decision model, decision analysis, decision theory :) Hope that helps. Vespine 04:00, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

You could replicate the experiment described in Framing (economics), which is related to loss aversion, or one revealing some other cognitive bias in decision making.  --Lambiam 11:06, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

NAFTA' Preamble

what is the content of NAFTA's Preamble? What is the content of United Nation preamble?202.95.150.174 03:29, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

NAFTA preamble

Preamble to the United Nations Charter

-- Jim Douglas _(contribs) 03:37, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

If Misplaced Pages were printed

If wikipedia were a printed, bound, traditional encyclopedia, how many volumes would it have? And how much shelf space would it take up? And how much would it cost to buy? Lady Nemisis 04:20, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, for starters, it's a free encyclopedia... —EdGl 05:14, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Currently according to wiki stats there are almost a million and a half articles in wikipedia. Britannica's 23 volume current edition has about 75,000 articles. Mind you, Britannica wouldn't have pages about individual nokia phone models and episodes of Myth Busters so I don't know if you can really compare the 2. But a guess based purely on those figures would mean wikipedia would take about twenty times the space or 400 of those Britannica volumes. Of course that is jsut a wild guess. Vespine 05:38, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Isn't it common for WP articles to be larger than Britannica ones too? - Mgm| 12:43, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps we are talking here about something that might be close to resembling the Library of Babel, or the Book of Sand? Clio the Muse 06:00, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

About the price. The content may be free, but one still has to print and distribute the books. For comparison, paperbacks of books by long-dead authors cost only a few euro. But those are without photos. One might need a few thousand paperbacks for Misplaced Pages. Then again, printing without the photos in large volume and selling through the Internet without advertising costs (only for those really interrested) might make a few hundred euro a likely price. That said, printing Misplaced Pages will only become an interresting option to enough people when it covers all important areas sufficiently and that is not the case yet. But a print of just the technical articles might be interresting to some, because such subjects are covered fairly well. DirkvdM 07:18, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

So I don't think you'll be able to make a profit out of us by printing Misplaced Pages either.--Shantavira 14:30, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah wot about a WikiTechnopedia!. Also we could publish a 'Best of the RD Best Q & A' 8-)--Light current 17:47, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Identify banking institution by type of safe deposit box key

greetings, trying to assist estate "clean up". found one safe (safety) deposit box key in deceased's possesions. so far there is no indication of the institution, no bill for the box rental, no notice of box rental fee waiver, etc.

we have been seeking a visual chart of keys used for safe deposit boxes with info on manufacturer that might be used to initiate inquiries with local banking institutions as to which banks use X company's safe deposit boxes. it is not that bad running in and out of bank branches, but finding the correct person to address the explanation and inquiry to is not fun.

decedant was resident of marin county, california USA 94901.

thank you for any suggestions or guidance in this matter.

respectfully submitted, eric 69.107.54.77 08:01, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Best bet would be to contact the deposit box manufacturers. There must not be that many of them. Alternatively, contact the people who make the keys for the bank.

It is possible that the deceased was holding the key for someone else. It is very surprising that there are no bills or mention in the will. It could be an old key that was lost and the deceased stopped renting the box. Although I'm sure you already thought of this, it is more likely that they rented a box at an institution with which they already had a relationship that at one they did not.

Something else you might do (unrelated) is contact the state department responsible for missing property. Every state has one. Funds from unclaimed bank accounts, etc. go there. Good luck. -THB 08:43, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Encyclopedia Dramatica

Hello viteh,

As I was looking online for other encyclopedias, I found this one 'encyclopedia dramatica'. And it appears to be a parody of other serious sites (including wikipedia) and in several of it's articles it refeers in a pejorative way about wikipedia. My question is: Why do you have a deleted/protected article about said encyclopedia and what's the connection between wikipedia and dramatica.

Thank you, Santiago.

Here's the VFD: Misplaced Pages:Votes for deletion/Encyclopedia Dramatica. -THB 08:38, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Encyclopedia Dramatica is not a parody, it is some sort of internet culture wiki with few to no rules. The Misplaced Pages parody is called Uncyclopedia. Both of these websites use the MediaWiki software, the same used by Misplaced Pages. The reason ED's article was blocked is probably because 90% of the edits were vandalism coming from ED's users. ☢ Ҡi∊ff⌇↯ 08:42, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Officially it was deleted because the material in it wasn't verifiable in published sources, which is true, although some maintain that the deletion was at least party due to the various controversies and "drama" surrounding the article, subsequent to some harassment of a Wikipedian via an article at ED. They make fun of Misplaced Pages and Wikipedians, you know, sometimes by name, and generally in ways that many consider offensive if not libelous. There were blocks and bans and vandalism and namecalling and so forth, and ArbCom eventually ruled that ED is deemed an attack site and that links to it are not welcome here. During all this, it was deemed necessary to protect the deleted page, to prevent re-creation, and later its talk page, due to trolling. The most recent discussion, in its final state before closing, can be found here. I hope that helps. -GTBacchus 10:10, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Wondering how one might get into electronics.

I'm a decent hacker, but I've always wondered about the other side. Resistors, capacitors, that sort of thing. Specifically, I want to know about RFIDs and imaging chips, like the kind they have in digital cameras (I want to make my own infrared camera).

How might I go about learning more about these sorts of things? What would I need to work with them? -- Abnerian 10:12, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmm. You might find the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers a good starting point for your research into that area; I'm sure browsing through that information can at least point you in the right direction for more information. Tony Fox (arf!) 17:18, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I personally think, buy your self a half decent soldering iron and get straight into a couple of hobby kits. The site I linked is Australian, but if you are not in Australia I'm sure you can find something similar where you live. There are hundreds of different projects you can get. They come in all varying skill levels and even specifically 'educational' ones, find some that interest you and get your hands dirty, so to speak. I personally think getting straight into the practical side of things is the best way to learn. Vespine 22:56, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Here you go, found one you might be specifically interested in. RFID Kit. Vespine 23:15, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Willy On Wheels

I hear references to to "Willy on Wheels" (apparently a vandal) all the time? I checked User:Willy on Wheels and found a permanantley blocked user.who is this person? Is he very important to Misplaced Pages history? Is this all some giant inside joke that I am unaware of? By the way, this might now be the right pace to ask this, but I could not find anywhere else. NauticaShades 11:03, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Willy on Wheels was a chronic pagemove vandal who was active for a long time, and developed a certain notoriety. He had an extremely long list of sockpuppets, I guess, before WP:DENY came along and we took down the page where they used to keep track of them all - too much like keeping a trophy case for him, we figured. I don't get the impression there's much Willy on Wheels vandalism anymore, though I can't say I really keep up with the latest in vandalism. -GTBacchus 11:23, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

This was the most prolific vandal ever, specializing in page move vandalism and resurfacing when blocked through many sockpuppet accounts. For a mention, see Misplaced Pages:Wikipedia_Signpost/2005-08-29/Vandals_resurface.  --Lambiam 11:22, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

• In a way he was important to Misplaced Pages history. Because of his vandalism, technology to undo pagemoves more quickly was developed and I think a number of other vandalism tools were created because of his actions. - Mgm| 12:48, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Collecting information without any trace of identity?

I thought that there could be some list of passwords people use, just so that people could see how most people's passwords look like, if they are curious. The problem is that the collecting of the passwords should destroy all traces of the people's identities, so that the passwords would be useless to the readers of the list, and no one's privacy would actually be compromised. The list collector, and the readers, not knowing which passwords belong to whom is not enough - the people themselves who give their passwords must have complete certainty no other person is going to know that the passwords they give belong to them. This would exclude sending a computer form (IP addresses could be traced), and writing them on pieces of paper (handwriting could be recognised). Is there any real foolproof way? JIP | Talk 11:09, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, I know a bit about how most people choose passwords, and it appears to me that most people will choose a dictionary word (or a sports team, keep a sports team wordlist handy), and a number at the end of it, like "steelers7", or "flourish9". Read Stealing The Network: How To Own the Box. -- Abnerian 11:22, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

To answer the question, there could be a computer somewhere where people could physically come and enter their passwords, anonymously. I doubt there could be any way to trace them afterwards, if the software was developed so that it would randomize the order of the entered passwords in its memory. Also you could let people arrange alphabet magnets on a blackboard, and let only one person in at a time... like Magnetic Poetry but with letters instead of words. –mysid☎ 11:55, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

That would probably work. An idea I this gave me goes as follows: One person at a time walks into a room and arranges alphabet magnets on a blackboard to show his/her password. The person leaves, the password is photographed by an automated camera, and the blackboard is magnetised in the same polarity as the magnets, so all the magnets fall off. Then the next person comes in and does the same. After all people have been to the room, all the photographs are printed, and the printed pictures are shuffled, by someone who has never previously met the people, in front of the people. They are then given to someone, who also has never previously met the people, who types the passwords up in a computer. Should this be secure enough? JIP | Talk 12:28, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good – provided the camera won't take a picture before the person has left, in which case it would become horribly insecure. :) –mysid☎ 12:39, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually, if we can assume that the person giving his/her password is always alone in the room, we can skip all the fuss with arranging magnets and photographing them. Just put a computer terminal there and have it always logged in as the same user. The people who come in there only have to enter their password, they never enter their name or any other ID anywhere. That would be enough to detach the passwords from other ID information. JIP | Talk 23:19, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

• Wouldn't that make cracking accounts a piece of cake? Just run the list against a variety of websites and wait for a hit. - Mgm| 12:50, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
  • You've got a point there, but I'd guess that there are several ways to make crackers' jobs harder: Simply make the list so long that it will be less feasible to run the entire list against website. Most authentication systems need both a username and a password, and a password alone is next to useless. (Totally detaching the passwords from the usernames was the whole point of this question.) Or you could ensure that the passwords are only for systems that the average user/reader/consumer wouldn't even have enough access to get a log-in prompt. JIP | Talk 13:57, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I have no idea why anyone would willingly contribute to such a list, particularly as the prime use of it would be to illegally hack someone, potentially the person who contributed in the first place. --Dweller 15:06, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

you could collect former passwords that people tell you after they stop using it. However, selection bias will be considerable, even without considering spoofing issues. It may be more practicable for some large institution to organize such a study, that is, by collecting anonymized passwords as people enter then. The "foolproof" bit is in looking at the code and making sure that all data beyond the password itself is, in fact, not stored anywhere, and then compiling and installing that code manually. dab (ᛏ) 15:42, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't this be moved over to the Computing Desk, where there might be people who know what they are talking about? Password dictionaries are used all the time for Linux and Unix systems, to check security. They actually check against the encrypted hash, and come up with the hits. There are tons on papers on this. --Zeizmic 15:55, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

This question is more about the practical details of reassuring people that their identity will never be published to anyone, and less about passwords on any actual computer systems. JIP | Talk 23:19, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

You people are being way too confident that the average user cares about their password being known - --Mnemeson 23:47, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

advertising slogans

—15:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)15:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)15:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)15:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)15:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)88.106.3.221N B warren I am trying to find the answer to this question -what have you run out of when you need to "have a word with the wife".I could not find answer on Wikiquote.Can you help please?

Well it could be almost amything, depending on what "the wife" in question supplies you with. Clean underwear perhaps? (If you're lucky.) --Shantavira 18:27, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Nuptials?AMX 19:53, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Country Life butter in the UK, I believe. Part of the jingle went "If you haven't any in have a word with the wife, and spread it on your toast in the morning" or something very similar Situationist 00:24, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Corned beef tins

Why is corned beef packed in tapered rectangular tins? I have never seen any other products in such tins, or corned beef in a different shaped tin.88.106.81.166 16:52, 23 November 2006 (UTC)Taffy

Sardines also come in similar shape tins, though no idea why. Spam also comes in the same shape tin. Potentially the reasoning could be (for Spam and Corned Beef) a desire to make the product look like it is from a terrine dish. ny156uk 17:43, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I would agree, the can mimics the traditional loaf or terrine. The meat is cooked in the tin. -THB 17:55, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I always assumed it was necessary in order to get the solid lump of meat out in one piece. Getting it out of a straight-sided tin without chopping it up would be pretty difficult. DJ Clayworth 18:03, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I think that's why the traditional terrine dish is shaped that way. The tin mimics the dish. -THB 18:10, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I originally thought it was so that you can slide it out of the tin in once peice, however as soon as I thought about it I rememebered what an effort it is to do this so now I've confused me self.AMX 19:55, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

My editing of articles

If you Wikipedians want to change my edits of the article about Magneto (band), you can do it.

That comment came from 12.18.90.119 - who apparently hasn't got any other edits. Does anyone understand this?martianlostinspace 17:12, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps either the edits were done under another name/adddress or they weren't saved. -THB 17:50, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

There are a couple edits there done by 12.18.90.101, which is probably the same person. --Maelwys 18:13, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Anyway, I'm happy he allows us to change his edits. If he'd forbidden us to, I'd be worried... ;) 惑乱 分からん 18:01, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I just did. Most of the wikilinks are pointless, btw.--Shantavira 18:24, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Architecure blueprints

Does anyone know of a website which features blueprints of famous buildings old or new? Keria 17:42, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

By blueprints, do you mean floorplans, elevations, sections, etc., or pics of blueprints? -THB 17:48, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

That would have to be floorplans and elevations of remarkable buildings or buildings of famous architects. Keria 17:51, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

www.greatbuildings.com has some but in general it's best to search for a particular building or architect. A lot of the plans online are from student projects. There are few drawings of famous buildings online from the original architect unless the firm still exists and the plans are on the architect's website. For instance, Venturi Scott Brown has plans on their website. -THB 18:07, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

At the moment I'm looking in particular for buildings by Frank Lloyd Wright (i.e. some of his houses around 1910). Thank you very much for the references THB. Keria 18:36, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

paycheck for members of parliament

are memberds of parliament in europe payed just congressman and representives here in the united states.

If you mean "Are Members of the European Parliament paid as much as members of Congress or the House of Representives", then occasionally. Italian MEPs are very well paid, at $170,000 per year, $5,000 more than the average congressman/senator, while Spanish MEPs get only $40,000 per year. It depends on the nation that sends them, as they are the ones who foot the bills for the paychecks! Laïka 20:17, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Fuels of the world

For my homework: What fuels are used in: France, A country in Africa (Uganda for instance), A country in Asia (e.g. India).

Thanks

Why don't you have a look at, say Economy of France, where you'll discover that the last red-blooded patriotic American who visited Misplaced Pages has explained that France gets its electricity by tapping the motion of waving white flags... ;) (the last part is a joke, but the article link isn't). Repeat the process for the other two countries to get a starting point. --Robert Merkel 20:17, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm. THe question is: Is that a racist comment, or a statement of fact?--Light current 23:10, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Profile picture

What exactly is this user's profile picture of? Any help is much appreciated. 81.131.67.205 21:21, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

A part of and old phone handset ? -- DLL 22:14, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

It looks kind of like the inside of an office-sized metal coffee machine, if you take the metal stem out. - Rainwarrior 22:27, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Like, the silver cylinder type (something like this: ), usually the metal pot has ridges and a couple of holes in the middle of the bottom. There's also usually some sort of metal stem in the middle above the holes, but that can be removed. - Rainwarrior 22:38, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

How do people write books?

Could somebody give a walkthrough of the process involved in writing a book? I mean, once a person has an idea for a book and wants to write it, what do they do from that point up until the book is available to buy in bookstores?--216.164.249.175 21:50, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Just as a point of clarification, I am not asking about taking an idea and fleshing it out, but rather I am asking about what software they use to write it, when they go to a publisher, what that entails, etc.--216.164.249.175 21:55, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Software shouldn't matter, as long as it manages the most common file formats, such as *.doc, *.rtf, *.pdf etc. But I think scripts generally are read by editors as printed papers. 惑乱 分からん 22:11, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

The hard thing about being a novelist often isn't writing the book, but getting someone to read it. Particularly, getting someone to publish it. You can mail copies to every literary agent and publisher and editor you can, but you're still going to be very lucky to get anyone to read it (they all get so many, and most are so bad, that they probably read the synopsis or the first page at best). So a lot of authors start out writing short stories and magazine articles and even letters to Penthouse (they're not really written by horny housewives, you know). Only once they've established something of a name for themselves will editors bother to read their novels (and writing short-form works does wonders for your writing skills - any idiot can write a massive meandering tome). Once they're established some authors (particularly genre authors) stop writing novels on spec altogether, and instead write a treatment (just a few pages summarising the novel) and only write the novel if a publisher agrees to publish it - this overcomes the noted fickleness and herd mentality of the popular publishing sector ("You've spent ten years writing the best ever dragon book? It's great, but we're not doing hard fantasy this year; do you have anything with robots?"). -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 22:36, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

• Most authors sit down and do some planning. Write down the information they know about their plot and character and order their notes so it makes sense as a cohesive story. Then they write it (takes very long), then they reread, edit, reread and edit a few times before sending it out. If you want to know more about the writing process, you should hang around writer's sites. Absolutewrite.com, CritiqueCircle.com and places like MissSnark.Blogspot.com and the links she has listed in her blog. Good luck!- Mgm| 23:57, 23

November 2006 (UTC)

How do people write books? With blood, sweat, toil and tears. Clio the Muse 02:00, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

And misquotes? :–) --Anonymous and cheeky, 02:19 UTC, Nov. 24.

That's a quotation? How wonderful! But on this occasion a personal path is described. I always sweat after I bleed and before I toil; then come the tears. The blank page brings on all the horrors! Clio the Muse 02:28, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

About MP3 Wii

My brother is wondering if there is any way an Ipod or MP3 Player can interact directly with a Wii via the USB port, like if you would be able to download MP3s on to the Wii from a MP3 player the same way as with a SD card. Talk|BeefJeaunt 22:27, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think so, Wii is not really being pushed as a media centre, it's a game console. Vespine 22:40, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Can't do it currently. From what I understand, you can't even listen to MP3s off an SD card right now unless using them as background music in a photo slideshow, or in Excite Truck (the only game supporting that right now). -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 02:17, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Salary of US President

What is the annual salary of the President of the USA (before and after benefits)? How does this compare with a US military 4-star General? Or a Chief of Staff? Thanks. Jamesino 23:08, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I could find salary for the President of the USA in 2001 of $400,000 (plus $50,000 non-taxable expenses), the chief justice of the supreme court got $199,200 that same year. Presidents are usually paid quite 'poorly' in comparison to comparable positions in the business world. The reasons for this are considered to be many faceted:

• Publicity wise it looks bad if the President is talking about taxation but is on an income of £20m a year
• The position should not be sought for its wage, and thus the wage remains low comparable to others, because the position should be sought for honourable reasons
• The earnings post-presidency are so high that there is little reason to pay hugely during the presidency

The reasoning is my opinion, but i'm pretty sure that most of it is commonly acknowledge by the political arena.

Oh and apparently Washington and JFK both refused their salaries. ny156uk 23:28, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah ok, Thanks =) Jamesino 01:12, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

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