Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 14:54, 25 November 2006

Bias

Regarding Sugaar's response, you have to remember that he's quite biased. He considers quoting Oxford English Dictionary as POV pushing. And this is the alleged Nazi, Nordicist, etc...version of the page White people. Also read my edit summary here and how some of "A group of veteran wikipedians" as he described it edited all this by simply saying "reverting vandalism", etc...— Preceding unsigned comment added by Thulean (talk • contribs)

You appear to be using the word 'bias' to imply 'wary of persons who are supporters of Nazism'. For the avoidance of doubt, I don't consider such an approach to be a policy violation. Addhoc 14:54, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Response to Alun

This is my response to Alun, why I used the word "clueless" . Also I loved how he changed his wordings from

"Please refrain from personal attacks, it reflects more on you than anyone else. If I fail to fully understand what you are saying then maybe it reflects an inability on your part to express yourself clearly. You do not seem to be able to stick to a specific point." to

"I suggested that if I was clueless maybe it was because he was not making himself clear enough" as he claimed in the project page.

Also as you can see in the diffs, I didnt accuse him of any PA's. He told me to "Please refrain from personal attacks, it reflects more on you than anyone else" and I answered "I think saying that you are clueless about what I'm saying is less of a personal insult than "If I fail to fully understand what you are saying then maybe it reflects an inability on your part to express yourself clearly."" Thulean 19:25, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

A personal attack should be an insult equivalent to calling someone an idiot, I would concur that in this dispute the phrase is being used in an unhelpful manner. However, I am personally more disappointed with Shell for implying that Sugaar indicating that he won't vote for her is a personal attack, than your example. Addhoc 14:29, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Comment

I'm going to make a comment here, a comment I've repeated a few times in these types of cases: You are responsible for your own behaviour and you will be held accountable for it by your peers. While I definitely see some back and forth in this case, and I don't believe anyone here to be truly innocent, I do see numerous cases of unacceptable behaviour on the part of Sugaar and since this is a RfC the behaviour that needs to be discussed is his. When editing wikipedia you're expected to act like an adult. We don't always succeed, but that is the expectation. Regardless of what another editor does, you need to behave appropriately. You need to take the higher ground. If someone harasses you, don't respond in kind, instead report it and move on as best you can until they're appropriately dealt with. Failing to do so gets you in to trouble. --Crossmr 07:26, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

I broadly agree with your comments, Crossmr. My only comment would be that it perhaps would be more appropriate to suggest that Sugaar handles any future disagreements in a dispassionate manner. Not that my choice of words is always very clever, of course. Addhoc 14:34, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Scope of this RFC

Several people have made claims that my actions were one-sided. Since this RfC was already lengthy, I did not include interactions that didn't involve Sugaar and myself. However, since these claims have been made, I think its important to point out that I have warned 3 other editors involved in the dispute, chased down and banned Eukasta (a highly disruptive editor who did little other than attack the editors on White people) and his many sockpuppets and reverted, investigated and banned other accounts created solely to attack and harass editors involved in the White people article (this is still in progress due to a concerted outside influence). Its also important to note that I have absolutely no doubt that Sugaar is not the only editor in that dispute who has made personal attacks. Thulean has certainly made inappropriate comments and contrary to claims of favoritism, you can see directly on my talk page where I have turned down Thulean's requests a number of times, warned him about his behavior and cautioned him to stick to the mediation and avoid spreading the dispute.

I also wanted to touch on one other comment. Sugaar has complained that I drug up every mistake he's ever made; this was certainly not the intent. If editors review my warning and block as asked, its important that they understand what my basis was for those decisions - I could have left them to wade through Sugaar's contributions, but I felt that would be asking a bit much. The diffs provided are limited to the White people dispute and subsequent interactions between Sugaar and myself; they establish the pattern of behavior when dealing with this particular dispute. As I stated in the opening paragraph, Sugaar has a wealth of other contributions, especially to the Basque portal, which show his normal behavior is exemplary. This is one of the reasons the final block for persistent personal attacks was only 6 hours instead of the more standard 24 - I think this dispute is out of character. Shell 12:18, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

As it happens, your contributions to Misplaced Pages in the capacity of editor and custodian have also otherwise been exemplary. Addhoc 14:37, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

RfC for Thulean

Regarding Thulean's user name, I would support a RfC established to demonstrate that in the context of Thule society, his choice of user name isn't conducive to a harmonious editing environment. Also, the RfC could provide clarification that in accordance with the essay WP:SPADE describing someone who is, for example, sympathetic to nazism or pro-aryan, as such, isn't a policy violation. Addhoc 14:49, 25 November 2006 (UTC)