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Marines

Where are they "specifically mentioned" in ST VI? Please point to the dialogue or text on screen. One of my horrible, awful late-night deletions was for the bogus fancruft Marines article. --EEMeltonIV 06:42, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Colonel West sits in a briefing and is said to be a member of the Federation Marine Corps. Later gets very specific in the novel of the film as it goes into West's career in counter-intel.

"is said" - there's a reason passive voice sucks. The word "marine" isn't in the movie. Is it in the book? --EEMeltonIV 06:54, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, its in the book and quite a bit of backstory about Colonel West is also given. And whats with correcting people's grammer on talk pages? I wouldn't do that, it might offend someone who reads it the wrong way. Just some advice. -Husnock 07:49, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Sources

I added and expanded the article. A number of sources are available, to include specifically the onscreen apperance. I put down the one book title I remembered and will research more over the next few months. This article has been hit alot for being speculation and not citing courses. I hope this clears it up. -Husnock 06:45, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Federation Security

Saw some concern raised about this group. Appears for about 10 minutes in Star Trek III, a black man approaches mcCoy about talking too loud regarding the Genesis Planet. Saying the man was acting like the CIA shouldn't by POV or OR since his character was very clearly supposed to be the "secret agent" type in the bar with knowledge about secret things. Maybe some re-wording, but references to this group should stay in. -Husnock 06:48, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Citations

Husnock (or anyone)--

Please provide references -- either specific dialogue or reliable secondary sources -- for the following assertions:

• During this time, most of Starfleet Security was assigned as security guards onboard Starfleet vessels and space stations.
  • Thats common knowledge from watching the show and is mentioned in 50 - 100 pocket books, the animated series, and countless technical manuals.

• The agency is also responsible for maintaining and enforcing Starfleet Security regulations, procedures and policies on all Starfleet and affiliated facilities, outposts, and vessels.

• In addition, this agency is responsible for security clearances of all Starfleet and Federation personnel (I see the ST3 "citation" -- remind me where this is in the film)
  • I think it was in Star Trek IV actually. Don't know. Why the semi-sarcastic tone using ""? Do you not consider that a proper citation. Then just say so.

• By the time frame of the 24th century, Starfleet Security was also the primary source of Federation ground troops
  • The Starfleet Security chain of command included several division and brigade sized formations capable of assaulting a planet (I know all those troops showed up in the episode, but you're extrapolating size and capability). The episode speaks of declaring martial law and occupying all of Earth to defend it against a full scale invasion...you need troops to do that. Security Division and Brigade structure also mentioned in numerous sources.

• Starfleet Security is also one of the few non-command career fields in which it is capable to rise to the rank of full admiral.
  • Specifically mentioned in the Pegasus episode, several Starfleet security admirals mentioned in Pocket Books, most notable "The Lost Years".

• Starfleet Security often works jointly with Starfleet Intelligence - please cite instances other than Pegasus to justify "often"

• and the Federation Marine Corps - cite their existence
  • Very clearly mentioned in Star Trek VI and expanded upon in the novel

• In the 23rd century, the civilian equivalent of Starfleet Security was known as "Federation Security", seen briefly in the film Star Trek III and appearing to be some type of CIA equivalent orgaization. - cite material that explains transition from one to the other
  • Very clearly mentioned in Star Trek III, a character is seen, and this is explained in greater detail in the novel. Rewording could be used about CIA, intent was to demonstrate its a secret agency.

• Starfleet Security is also responsible for the security of the Federation President, as well as members of the Federation Council and visiting alien dignitaries (Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home). - extrapolating presence of guys in costume with duty - who's to say they weren't avid spectators? there to protect Kirk from the rampaging hoards? walked into the wrong room and held very still to avoid being noticed?

• Section 31 has been suspected of being involved with the Khitomer conspiracy as well as the illegal cloaking device development onboard the USS Pegasus. - cite something beyond fanboy hardon speculation . . . possibly connected to Section 31.
  • I believe an entire comic book series was written about this. Fleet Admiral Cartwright article mentions this in some detail.

Please also articulate why the following are not WP:OR:

• .... apparetly an entirely separate career path from regular (or "Line") personnel of the Starfleet.
  • Pretty clearly shown in the series that these people are separate from the command path of Captain Picard and the like. DS9 explores this greater with Eddngton and there was a first season character ("Move Along Home") who says he is a 'career security officer'

• In the capacity of security guards, Starfleet Security members act in ways analogous to local and regional police agencies.

The following appear to have traces of non-NPOV (i.e. subjective observations) and also need citing

• The task of Starfleet Security was also extremely dangerous, especially when providing security to landing parties on unexplored planets.
  • Watch the series...they die every other episode. The Pocket Book novels also have numerous reference to how dangerous the work is and there are several lines of dialouge from NG and DS9 where this is discussed as well. -Husnock 07:48, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

• a noticable number (suggests "a lot", but that's subject)
  • Don't really follow what you're trying to say.

--EEMeltonIV 06:52, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I sure we can

I'm sure folks can research that for you, it may take time. However, we're not trying to make an FAC here. I answered most everything I know up above; a lot of source material is not with me and some of that material was added by others. Give the article a chance, at least. Looking up above, it almost seems like you are *trying* to find things wrong with this article. Unsettling with the evidence that you've been heavily involved previously with deleting two Star trek rank articles under the same platform of original research and no sources. I hope you do not have similar designs on this article. -Husnock 07:48, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Why are you actively trying to make the article worse? Morwen - Talk 09:53, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

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