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Judge Death

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Judge Death (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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No indication of relationship with GNG/NFICTION, pure PLOT+list of appearances in media. Cool name though. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:49, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:49, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

• Agree, delete. But, as a regular recurring character, I'd suggest merging to a new List of supporting characters in Judge Dredd. --Nicknack009 (talk) 07:39, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science fiction-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 11:51, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Comics-related deletion discussions. Necrothesp (talk) 11:51, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

• Merge as above. As usual, deletion of information which can be merged elsewhere benefits nobody. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:58, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
  • Again, Misplaced Pages is not an indiscriminate collection of information. "Misplaced Pages treats creative works (including, for example, works of art or fiction, video games, documentaries, research books or papers, and religious texts) in an encyclopedic manner, discussing the development, design, reception, significance, and influence of works in addition to concise summaries of those works." See also Manual of Style/Writing about fiction. Is your information encyclopedic, or is it just a catalogue of trivia and minutiae? The current Judge Death article is the latter, like most Judge-Dredd-related content on Misplaced Pages, is very much the latter and it needs culled.--Nicknack009 (talk) 16:45, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
• Keep As usual with these nominations, no effort has been made to search for sources as required by WP:BEFORE and WP:NEXIST. It only takes a few seconds to find substantial coverage such as this. The topic therefore passes WP:GNG and applicable policies include WP:ATD, WP:NOTPAPER, WP:PRESERVE. Andrew🐉(talk) 14:47, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

  Jumpin' Jiggy Jiggs: "B-b-but I haven't done anything!"
  Judge Death: "You live. That isss ssufficcient."

Your link is not "substantial coverage". It's a text page in a Judge Dredd comic. --Nicknack009 (talk) 16:45, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

That source passes WP:SIGCOV as it contains and verifies many facts about the subject, such as their first appearance. It is quite adequate and, in any case, there many more sources out there such as that. As sources are so easy to find, and the nominator clearly hasn't made the slightest effort to familiarise himself with the topic, the discussion should be terminated per WP:SK to avoid further waste of time. Andrew🐉(talk) 16:54, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

SIGCOV says "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be suitable for a stand-alone article or list." (emphasis in original). A one page recap in a Judge Dredd comic is neither significant nor independent, so certainly does not pass SIGCOV. Your second link, the book War, Politics and Superheroes, is a bit better: it's independent at least, but is one page in one book significant? I can't find anything else on Google Books. There's nothing relevant at the British Newspaper Archive. I can't find anything else but fan pages and news reports of the death of a real-world judge. If there sources out there to establish real-world (not "in-universe") notability, I can't find them. --Nicknack009 (talk) 18:00, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

• Significant coverage: Here are a number of sources just from a quick Google search, some of which attest to him being an "iconic character". I'd say it's a given that this is notable to the topic of comics on Misplaced Pages: , , , , , , , , , , , , , . Piotrus and TTN are not bothering to check for sources or look into the subject matter of the article before spamming copious amounts of deletion nominations, which TTN has even indicated to me directly. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Goblin (Marvel Comics) is a major example of this, where TTN not only didn't check for sources and jumped to the conclusion that the article was a "collection of unrelated topics". It was pointed out to him that the characters were not unrelated, he decided to insist that they were (even after several sources were provided proving otherwise), before trying to downplay the point altogether. At this point, these deletion spammings are causing a number of problems, and TTN and Piotrus don't seem to have the slightest clue how WP:GNG works. DarkKnight2149 23:27, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

• The vast majority of those are trivial mentions, a couple of them literally the character's name once or twice. I really don't get why people post link dumps to prove a point without actually perusing them. TTN (talk) 23:33, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

This is blatantly not the case, and anyone who sorts through these sources can see that they discuss Death in great detail. A few of them even directly refer to him as "iconic". DarkKnight2149 23:51, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

• Keep: I did a google search and found some results for him. You just got to type magic key words here. Also I should note even current articles compare a new popular character like The Batman Who Laughs to him. A few example of the sources are in that Misplaced Pages page. Jhenderson 18:30, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

• https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/its-dredd-vs-death-in-2000ads-punishing-new-dredd-final-judgement-1
• https://lfpress.com/entertainment/books/brown-the-batman-who-laughs-seems-inspired-by-judge-death
• https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/exclusive-bad-guys-rule-in-our-extended-peek-at-2000-ads-fcbd-villains-takeover-special
• The British Comic Book Invasion: Alan Moore, Warren Ellis, Grant Morrison and the Evolution of the American Style

• Delete - Sources need to be provided for them to be taken into consideration. As of now, no sources = no notability. TTN (talk) 18:49, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

• I'd rate the above sources as mostly passing mentions. The most in-depth real world information is just a quote from a creator, which doesn't particularly help the notability issue. Otherwise, it's pretty minor stuff like a one sentence opinion on inspiration for a Batman comic and a half a sentence describing the character as popular. TTN (talk) 19:25, 16 December 2019 (UTC)
• No, per WP:BEFORE, WP:NEXIST, and other policies, you have to make an effort to find out if significant coverage exists and do the bare minimum to assess if the article can be improved before nominating deletion (unless it is absolutely obvious beforehand that the topic isn't notable). You can't just dig up as many C-class articles as you can, immediately scroll to the References section, and then automatically tag all of them for deletion based on that alone. DarkKnight2149 08:18, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

• The only one expected to follow BEFORE is the nominator so not sure why you’re making a grandstand on my !vote. You’re also confusing a lack of BEFORE with a disagreement on the importance of sources. TTN (talk) 10:43, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

• I concur with TTN. I have seen some of those sources during my search for sources (BEFORE) and all they boil down to is one-sentence of 'Batman who laughs is inspired b Judge Deaths (among several other tropes)" etc. Not much to work with here. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:48, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

• "The British Comic Book Invasion: Alan Moore, Warren Ellis, Grant Morrison and the Evolution of the American Style" pages 125 and 126 are a bit more than 1 sentence (and doesn't mention batman).©Geni (talk) 04:54, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

• Keep One of the top villains in one of the last British comic books left standing (also a batman crossover for no readily apparent reason). That gets you coverage in the likes of "Comics & Culture: Analytical and Theoretical Approaches to Comics" "Character Design from the Ground Up: Make Your Sketches Come to Life" and unfortunately "Anderson v Dredd Mega-City LR 1" Additionally we have coverage due to Superfiend potential TV series a a cancelled computer game and a Tv series.©Geni (talk) 02:44, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

• Still mentions in passing, I am afraid. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 05:48, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

• You just described an entire chapter as a mention in passing.©Geni (talk) 04:44, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

• Keep - Substantial coverage exists. Stop finding as many start-class comic character articles as you can, scrolling to the References section, and then blindly tagging them for deletion. This is ridiculous and I'm already about to report TTN this week for their particularly disruptive conduct with these bulk nominations.

That's not to say that no articles can be nominated for deletion, but this string of mass nominations is clearly motivated by certain users not liking how comic-related content is handled on Misplaced Pages and trying to bypass relevant discussion by nominating as much stuff as possible, rather than working to create legitimate change through consensus. These bulk nominations are them throwing as much shit at the wall to see what sticks. DarkKnight2149 08:18, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

• WP:ATTP is not a valid argument at AFD, and TTN isn't even the nominator of this one. Rorshacma (talk) 19:58, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

• Nope. Everything I just said is pertinent and upon further inspection, this is a joint effort between TTN and Piotrus (who are both equally responsible for the deletion spam currently taking place). I would recommend looking through other discussions that are currently taking place on this matter. My statement 100% stands. DarkKnight2149 22:59, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

• Merge into a new List of Judge Dredd characters. Like most other JD characters, this fails WP:NOT#PLOT big time, so there is simply no need for a character-specific WP:SPINOUT article. But as a main character it should probably be covered somewhere. – sgeureka 13:35, 17 December 2019 (UTC)
• Redirect, for now, to Judge Dredd, the main article on the franchise where he is mentioned already. I agree with the arguments above that the sources that can be found are not substantial enough to pass the WP:GNG, as they are either brief, passing mentions, or fall largely into plot summary. If the proposed List of Judge Dredd characters is created, a merge would be appropriate. Until then, though, a Redirect to the franchise page would be sufficient for directing searches to an appropriate article, and preserving the article history for any future endeavors at creating the character list. Rorshacma (talk) 19:58, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

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