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	The ghurids ( debated) and khaljis (turk o afghan) should be mentioned before lodhi dynasty in the article. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 07:48, 20 September 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->		The ghurids ( debated) and khaljis (turk o afghan) should be mentioned before lodhi dynasty in the article. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 07:48, 20 September 2019 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

			:Uanfala, just to be clear, you only advocate removing the mention of Hindu Pashtuns in the inbofox, right? If that's the case, do you also support removing mention of another minority community, Twelver Shia Pashtuns, from the infobox too? Take into consideration that the font size in the box is different for the majority religious community and the minority religious community. I agree with your statement that "the group self-identifies as Pashtun is a strong indicator that it should be considered as such". There are other sources available regarding Hindu Pashtuns, a reason why the material in the article should be retained. ''']'''<sup>('']'')</sup> 06:40, 18 January 2020 (UTC)
	== Disputed source Solved ==

	After placing 50.000 bytes of information that "Afghan/Pashtun/Baloch" Hindus are of Punjabi descendant.
	This Information is now well placed (not by me) on the ] and ].

	But the source we now have/had as disputed was this news article about the Hindus of Quetta: https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tattooed-blue-skinned-hindu-pushtuns-look-back-at-their-roots/article22645932.ece

	Shashank and Anupam were in favor of the source while I and Wikiaviani (and some people who deleted that source) explained that they are not Ethnic Pashtuns/Balochs but are called "Pashtun",'Baloch' or "Farsiwan' Hindus which is how they identify.

	So these sources are from the same people that are from Quetta:

	{{Quote\|text="My Mother had defined herself as a Hindu Pathan from Quetta, Affirming Cultural and regional identity over religious differences."\|sign=Reena Nanda\|source=From Quetta to Delhi: A Partition Story{{snd}}<ref name=sl2009>{{cite book\|author1=Reena Nanda\|title=From Quetta to Delhi: A Partition Story\|url=https://books.google.com/books?id=eP_uByWWmUsC&pg=PA97\|year=2018\|publisher=Bloomsbury Publishing India\|isbn=978-93-8664-344-5\|pages=97–98}}; Columbia University </ref>}}


	And the important source that is directly quoted from the person that was in the article:

	{{Quote
	\|text=" I was unaware of my identity as a Hindu Pashtun for the longest time. In Indian society, people are categorised on the basis of their caste and religion very early. To somehow adhere to the mainstream brackets of caste and religion my ancestors identified themselves as Punjabis. I grew up thinking that I was a Punjabi,”
	\|author=Shilpi Batra
	\|title="Hindu Pashtuns: How One Granddaughter Uncovered India’s Forgotten Links to Afghanistan"
	\|source=''{{cite web \|url=https://www.thebetterindia.com/155394/hindu-pashtun-shilpi-batra-sheenkhalai-afghanistan/ \|title=Hindu Pashtuns: How One Granddaughter Uncovered India’s Forgotten Links to Afghanistan\|last=Batra\|first=Shilpi\|date=8 August 2018\|access-date=13 December 2019 \|language=English}}
	''
	}}




	This is the Person and the old ladies themselves that the disputed source was about. I found the article today. This clarifies everything. As I explained they are indeed "Pashtun" Hindu but not on the basis of ethnicity. So here you go they themselves say it. They are like all Hindus of Afghanistan (And Pashtun/Baloch areas of Pakistan) of Punjabi Khatri descendants. Like she confirmed here ancestors were Punjabi. Hope this helps for all.
	] (]) 20:59, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

	::You are doing ]. If someone else agrees with your revert which you have made probably 100 times now, then let them revert and explain their edits here. So far I am seeing nobody and you are apparently alone with your original research. ''']'''<sup>('']'')</sup> 03:10, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

	::: This is a traditional form of ] and ], Other have accepted that I reverted the Sheen Khalai source. Otherwise that would be reverted by Kansas bear or Dough Weller(see page history when this was done). Why is this ] and ] : The Sheen khalai themselves say they are of Punjabi Ancestry. So who are you to judge? https://www.thebetterindia.com/155394/hindu-pashtun-shilpi-batra-sheenkhalai-afghanistan/ And Why are you changing the ethnic group region to South Asia? Is Afghanistan and West Pakistan as native land incorrect or something? Because if it is let me know. This seems more Political then Informative, Hopefully this is not the case.] (]) 22:42, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

	:::: Also the source you Citate here is citing there are only Sunni Muslim and a Small Shia minority (also Christian converts) ] (]) 00:23, 10 January 2020 (UTC)
	{{Reflist}}
	::::The source provided in the article clearly states that those Sikh Pashtuns identify themselves as being members of the ethnic group, with Pashto being their mother tongue, not Punjabi. Additionally the material removed by Casperti has been replaced since the references clearly speak of Hindu Pashtuns who practise Pashtunwali, thus meeting the ] of being Pashtun. ''']'''<sup>('']'')</sup> 03:59, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

	:{{Reply to\|Aman.kumar.goel}} This is what exactly what the problem is. The Afghan / Pashtun Sikh and Hindus are identified as Pashtuns. https://www.samaa.tv/culture/2018/07/how-the-sikhs-settled-in-khyber-pakhtunkhwa/ http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3138282.stm All of them say that. This is true but this page is about ethnic Pashtuns and the definition of Pashtuns is that their Father need to be Pashtun according to this page.
	They themselves identify as Pashtuns as you also mentioned. But are of Punjabi ancestry. Which is also called ]. {{ping\|Uanfala}} knows that the Hindus and Sikhs of Afghanistan and KPK Pakistan are called Hindkowans by the locals despite their fluency in Pashto and Pashto culture (Or Tajik culture in Kabul and Ghazni). They are called Afghan Hindus or Pashtun Hindus. but by locals Hindki or Hindkowans because of their Punjabi ancestry. (Mostly Khatri). The only source that was not saying they were of Punjabi ancestry was the hindu.com Sheen khalai source but now we have found they also saying that they are of Punjabi ancestry. Whether they should be placed in Hindki or Hindkowans or in this page ] is up to the consensus.
	{{ping\|Wikaviani}} was also part of that discussion last year. ] (]) 16:18, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

	:I will be back with a more detailed reply soon, but you need to read ] and stop ]. ''']'''<sup>('']'')</sup> 16:24, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
	:You must read the source you cited again . It states that the Pashtun Hindus identified themselves as Punjabis when they came to India to fit in because they weren't accepted by their neighbours. The individuals mentioned in the article are Pashtuns, not Punjabis. The source mentions that their appearance, dress, and language is Pashtun/Pashto. Even Hamid Karzai identified them this way. I don't think there is any issue which needs to be addressed now. ''']'''<sup>('']'')</sup> 16:46, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

	You should read it maybe again. Reading can be hard. but I will explain it carefully for you. These Hindu ladies as they state are from the Quetta Loralai region, nowadays Pakistan. They have moved from Quetta to India in 1947. Shilpi Batra the Young girl/lady in the Articles did not know her Hindu Pashtun identity. She always thought she was fully Punjabi as her ancestors had to be Punjabi due to their Caste, surname, religion, etc. But she is not a "Punjabi" as she found out through her Grandmother but an Afghan/Pashtun Hindu from Quetta. As all Afghan (Or Pashtun) Hindus, they are of Punjabi ancestry. Even Dough Weller accepted that this source is solved by the Hindu ladies themselves. Hamid Karzai only met them, he met that day all Hindus and Sikhs of Afghanistan/KPK. If He said "They are Non-Hindki Pashtun Hindus" let me know. All Quetta Hindus are called "Pathan Hindu" as how would you otherwise call them? They cannot be called normally Punjabi. That's why you have a term for them that's called 'Pashtuns/Afghans Hindus and Sikhs'" aka ] ]!
	Here are more sources that all of the Pashtun Hindus/Sikhs are of Punjabi ancestry But most importantly the Sheen Khalai source. It is more than clear they are of Punjabi ancestry. Also the book "From Quetta to Delhi" explains this. Just try to understand , and we will in Meantime wait for more opinions on this.
	] (]) 17:45, 11 January 2020 (UTC)
	:Hindkowans are not Pashtuns and do not identify themselves as Pashtuns. Rather, Hindkowans speak a dialect of Panjabi. They are from two different areas that are very very far from one another. Hindkowans are from the Peshawar area and these Hindu Pashtuns are from Loralai. Your dependence over your personal research is clearly not enough. ''']'''<sup>('']'')</sup> 14:19, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
	:: There we go again, you are not reading the source are you (Hindkowans is the term Pashtuns use for anyone who speak the Western Punjabi dialects called Hindko in general by Pashtuns, it is like Farsiwan but for Western Punjabis)? They are identifying as Pashtuns like all non-muslim Hindki / Hindkowans as I showed you their in source above, it was just an example so you could understand it. They all (the non-muslim Hindki Pashto speakers) identify as Pashtuns. Also, I do not know why I am trying to explain it you. Per the source given by betterindia.com, the Ladies have Punjabi Ancestors. That's it, done. All reliable scientific sources about Pashtuns do not show Hinduism as their minority religion. All of the sources that are about the specific Pashtun ethnic group show only this: Sunni Muslim with a Shia minority (sometimes Christian converts too) that's it. Here is the list of sources that are talking about the ethnic group:
	*: Your own source says Sunni Muslim with Shia minority (Also Christian converts)
	* : Only says Sunni Muslim with a Shia minority
	*: Only says Sunni Muslim with a Shia minority in Pakistan Parachinar and Kandahar.
	*: Most belong to Sunni Hanafi school though adherents of Shia Islam exists.
	*: Pashtuns are generally Sunni Muslim but there are Twelver Shia as well

	Reliable scientific sources are here above. This is what we use in Misplaced Pages. There is no source that is about the ethnicity Pashtun specifically and not saying Sunni Islam with Shia minority. There is no source mentioning any other thing.

	This is no rocket science and No Personal research. Your answer is here above, loud and clear. Also These sources are reliable and the Sheen khalai has been debunked. It is accepted by Kansas Bear and Dough weller, I will change it after the protection is off the page back to the version of Dough Weller https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Pashtuns&diff=933538762&oldid=933538449. Only in the relgion section on paragraph 6, it can stay that: "Lasty there is little information left about the Sikh Pashtuns". As Dough requested to let stay. Although I do not agree with it, it will stay.
	About the Hindu Quettan's they themselves identify as Pashtun but are of Punjabi ancestry. "Quetta to Delhi" is about the Quetta ladies so you have now 2 evidences that they themselves say it. "My Mother had defined herself as a Hindu Pathan from Quetta, Affirming Cultural and regional identity over religious differences". , ".....Of course she Knew Mother was Punjabi" + Themselves in the article https://www.thebetterindia.com/155394/hindu-pashtun-shilpi-batra-sheenkhalai-afghanistan/ admitting they have Punjabi ancestry but should actually identify as Pathan Hindu and not as fully Punjabi. '''They are indeed called Pashtun Hindu or Afghan Hindu but are not ethnically so'''. The term that is used for the Afghan/Pashtun Hindu/Sikh is Hindki but are also just called Afghan hindu or Pashtun hindu but are not ethnic part of it. Thats the whole point. I will stop with talking, as it was already accepted. Accepted by everyone except you (And Shashank if you are not 1 person). I will change it back to Dough Wellers version: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Pashtuns&diff=933538762&oldid=933538449 when the Protection is gone. Also just read, that your South Asia mentioning will be deleted by the user Mathglot. Read the last talk page here below.
	] (]) 01:02, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
	*I'd support omitting mention of Hindus and Sikhs in the infobox. Of course, they can be described at length in the relevant section, but the infobox ought to be only a summary: it can't be an exhaustive catalogue of all minor marginal groups. At the very least, these are unlikely to be the only minorities: it's quite probable that there will be at least some Pashtuns in Pakistan and the diaspora who are Christian, atheist or agnostic. – ] 19:38, 13 January 2020 (UTC) <br> At the very least, most of the 's refs for the infobox can't stay: #13 only mentions Hindu Pasthuns within the context of hearsay, #15 and #17 are the same ref to the CIA World Factbook, which talks about Afghanistan but says nothing that I can see specifically about the Pashtuns, #16 is alright (but it only supports the statement about the Sunni and Twelver Shia), and only #14 talks of Hindu Pashtuns. That last source looks good, and it's definitely worth using with some caution, but I'm weary of having a strong statement about Hindu Pasthuns being supported by an article in a newspaper. Can't we find an ethnographic source for that? The fact that the group self-identifies as Pashtun is a strong indicator that it should be considered as such, but there are still lingering doubts given the well-documented overall importance of Islam for Pasthun identity. And the fact that they speak Pashto doesn't mean much: language ≠ ethnicity, even for the case of Pasthuns; for example, there are ]-speakers of Kohat and Peshawar districts who are shifting to Pashto without presumably losing their previous ethnic identities, and there are Pasthuns in Hazara, who are abandoning Pashto in favour of Hindko apparently without their ethnic identity as Pasthuns getting affected. – ] 20:12, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

	== Sikh Pashtuns ==		== Sikh Pashtuns ==

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GHURIDS AND KHALJIS

The ghurids ( debated) and khaljis (turk o afghan) should be mentioned before lodhi dynasty in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.211.22.22 (talk) 07:48, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Uanfala, just to be clear, you only advocate removing the mention of Hindu Pashtuns in the inbofox, right? If that's the case, do you also support removing mention of another minority community, Twelver Shia Pashtuns, from the infobox too? Take into consideration that the font size in the box is different for the majority religious community and the minority religious community. I agree with your statement that "the group self-identifies as Pashtun is a strong indicator that it should be considered as such". There are other sources available regarding Hindu Pashtuns, a reason why the material in the article should be retained. Aman Kumar Goel 06:40, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Sikh Pashtuns

As Dough Weller requested.

the Sikhs in Afghanistan they are called just Afghan Sikhs in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa these people are called Pashtun Sikhs. Because how would you otherwise call them. They are different than their Punjabi counterparts. In Afghanistan and KPK they are called Hindki or Hindkowans aka Pashtun/Afghan Sikhs.

So the sources that are mentioned have a sentence saying "many Sikh Pashtuns migrated to India after 1947". This Sentence is 100% correct that how they identify and are called so.

So here are the sources: The source below explains all.

How the Sikhs settled in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa

Those in Afghanistan came in the 18th and 19th century predominantly per BBC

Sikhs struggle in Afghanistan

Quote from Kohat census KPK: Castes, Tribes, and Leading Families Excerpts from the Gazetteer of the Kohat District Contents Hindus and Sikhs at the Census numbered 12,068. the Punjabi speaking portion of the rural population are classed together by the Pathans under the general name of Hindki. As a rule the village artisans, the carpenter, the smith and the potter are Hindki, but in the remoter portions of Teri and Miranzai the artisans more usually claim to be Pathans and have been classified as such.

If you want to see it: Singh, Pritpal (Director) (January 20, 2013). MISSION AFGHANISTAN (Motion picture). Afghanistan: Sangat Television (UK)-mission-afghanistan-plight-sikhs-afghanistan Afghan Sikh that travels to Afghanistan.

I think the first source is enough to just look at. But Dough your sources are not wrong either as I explained. They are indeed called "Pashtun" Sikhs or "Afghan" Sikhs like my sources also say. Because How would you otherwise call them. But they are not ethnic Pashtuns. Hope this helps.

Casperti (talk) 18:46, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

And yet a source, one of which you deleted twice, states;

"The friends from Peshawar would speak of Hindu and Sikh Pashtuns who had migrated to India."

Misplaced Pages editors are not allowed to use their personal knowledge as a source to write Misplaced Pages articles. Misplaced Pages is written using reliable published sources. The fact you have sources showing something else, is not a license to remove something that is currently sourced or edit war over it. FYI, Awtar Singh Khalsa "source" appears to be a blog, per Misplaced Pages blogs are not reliable sources. --Kansas Bear (talk) 23:19, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

@Kansas Bear:Personal knowledge? Why are you ignoring those other sources? They are descendants of Punjabi migrants called Hindki aka Pashtun Sikhs. btw I deleted the blog source for you. But they themselves say they are not ethnic Pashtuns so what's the deal? They are called "Pashtun" Sikhs. Because how would you otherwise call them. So we are talking about the Sikhs of Peshawar then just click on the source I give below. These source explain everything: This one is about the Sikhs of Peshawar, just click on it:

How the Sikhs settled in Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa

Casperti (talk) 13:37, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

I am having a hard time not to think if you are just an SPA dedicated to remove reliably sourced content from the article. Read WP:OR and find a new hobby. Shivkarandholiya12 (talk) 11:39, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

I also reverted this edit which contradicts mainstream assertion that Pashtun are Indo-Iranian. Shivkarandholiya12 (talk) 11:39, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

: @Shivkarandholiya12: Your revert is WRONG. Didn't you take the trouble to read the attached sources that I added? Pashtuns are a bunch of East-Iranic tribes is an established fact; because this very fact has been discussed in much detail later in the article/page, I believe that you haven't even bothered to read this whole article/page. How hard is that to understand? Also, let me educate you a little on this subject, since I do not have much time to give history lessons, I will keep it short: Iranic people are also Indo-Iranic people , because Iranians/Iranic people are a branch of Indo-Iranic people, so how does that edit contradict mainstream assertion? Perhaps you should read up on Indo-Iranians, hopefully that wont trouble you much? Kindly, in future, refrain from making nonconstructive edits to this page.Alephza (talk) 16:03, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

See WP:OR. Your source fails to support the information you are supporting. It makes no mention of Pashtun and should not be used here for supporting your all of the claims. Shivkarandholiya12 (talk) 12:45, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

:@Shivkarandholiya12: Did you even bother to read the sources I added or this whole article at all? In this very article Pashtuns have been described as East-Iranian tribes. You don't even know the difference between Indo-Iranians and Iranic people. As I stated earlier, I am not here to give out history lessons to anyone, but this issue requires just the basic knowledge of history. Iranic people are also Indo-Iranian people, because they are a branch of Indo-Iranians, check these pages out: . The other branch is Indo-Aryans . Pashtuns are Iranic people who belong to Indo-Iranian group. This is not hard to understand and there is no discussionn here. I have added multiple sources to backup my claim. You are only making this an issue of your ego. However, if you still disagree, kindly bring your sources that proves me wrong. My sources explicitly mention Pashtuns and mention the Iranic origin and Iranic language that Pashtuns speak today. I won't allow you to vandalize a page/article that is about 50 million people. Kindly find another hobby and people to fight with.Alephza (talk) 15:02, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

@Shivkarandholiya12: This is just WP:PUSH and WP:CRUSH. Firstly, The disputed source is already solved and accepted by everyone + the ladies in source themselves confirmed this see the talk page above. Secondly, Why are you adding those many languages back without adding a source with it. The two main minor languages they speak is enough and the major minor languages. Thirdly, "Sikh Pashtuns little information about them" that can stay so that's okay. Lastly, Indo-Iranians is the head branch it includes the two groups Indo-Aryans and Iranians. Because Indo-Iranians is too broad, mentioning the specific "Iranians" is much better and done in other Iranic pages too. So it goes like this Indo-european->Indo-Iranian->Iranian->Eastern Iranian. But You are indeed right Pashtuns are Indo-Iranians but that is too broad as it includes Indo-Aryans, Iranians (Western and Eastern Groups) and Nuristani groups. Casperti (talk) 15:01, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

@El C: Now that the abusive sock (Alephza) is blocked can you restore the version the pre-sock version? Thanks. Aman Kumar Goel 17:14, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

Unprotected. El_C 17:23, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 January 2020

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Kindly change South Asia to Afghanistan and west-Pakistan in the intro, as South Asia refers to a wide geographic area. Also, in the same paragraph, it is stated that Pashtuns primarily live Afghanistan and Pakistan, so why not mention these countries before, instead of writing South Asia. 101.50.91.66 (talk) 10:19, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

Not done: Current wording is sufficiently clear and appropriately qualified. Melmann 14:52, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

Having looked at sources given in the article, including where the Pashtuns are now, and their probable history and origins, including various differing and disputed versions, I find the IP’s request eminently reasonable. While saying that they are from “South Asia” is not a false assertion, neither is it false to say that they are from the “Eurasian supercontinent”, but both lack precision and are unnecessarily vague. The fact is, that even with ongoing disputes about their precise origin, it is true and verifiable to say they primarily live in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and since this is already sourced in the body, per WP:LEAD and WP:LEADFOLLOWSBODY it would be both accurate and helpful to the general reader to give their general location in the WP:LEADPARAGRAPH. I will implement this change when the page is unprotected. Mathglot (talk) 17:48, 11 January 2020 (UTC)

Not done for now: I would like to see agreement from other editors before making changes on this controversial subject — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:01, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

I agree that it's best to avoid talking about South Asia and just mention the two countries: that's both more specific and clearer to readers. At the very least, the Pashtuns are found in the extreme corner of South Asia, so the use of this broad term is nor very helpful. Additionally, it was recently decided that Afghanistan shouldn't be described as a South Asian country as it can just easily be seen as belonging to Central Asia, and even though the Pashtun-inhabited parts of the country can more easily been seen as part of South Asia than the rest of the country, the use of this term is still not completely without pitfalls. – Uanfala (talk) 19:32, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

I agree with Mathglot, the IP-address and Uanfala. For two reasons. The first one is that Afghanistan's location is stranded between two regions: South and Central Asia. As you can see here it was disputed for a long time Talk:Afghanistan#Location_in_South_Asia. Second thing is that South Asia is also too broad for mentioning it as a native region. As per sources given the native area is Afghanistan and West Pakistan. Other ethnicities in the region do not have such mentionings at all e.g Kashmiris, Hazaras and Tajiks. So I think it is a good thing Mathglot is going to change it. Casperti (talk) 22:02, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

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