Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 04:50, 5 June 2020

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A cup of tea for you!

Hope this will soothe your anger. Try not to engage in heated discussions while angry, alright? starship.paint (talk) 14:24, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Starship.paint. I will try to avoid heated discussions.-SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 14:31, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Cheers. I know it's not easy when we get angry. We just have to keep ourselves out of trouble, and also keep others from unnecessary trouble as well. starship.paint (talk) 14:51, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

SharabSalam, you need to think very carefully about your responses, especially in that main WP:AN section. It looks to me that you're digging yourself into a hole. In my view, you'll probably have to take the loss on the Saudi topic ban. Please don't overreact. starship.paint (talk) 08:05, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Very peculiar edit

This was extremely peculiar but it is not the first time I have noticed this sort of thing from you. For one thing, you didn't reply to what I asked. I said if we are including some information why not other. Your response is that it's irrelevant, so it's not going to be included. Which is irrelevant, the part about criminal past, the other biographical information, all of it? Also you do this very strange thing where you say what is or isn't going to happen before it's been decided, like a stern parent or TV gangster. Where does that come from? —DIYeditor (talk) 04:39, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

DIYeditor, what? I wasnt replying to you. I just made a comment.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 05:32, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

So are you saying all the biographical information should be removed? —DIYeditor (talk) 05:33, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Anyway, that is a topic for the talk page. What I came to ask is why you say (as an apparent habit) what is or isn't going to happen with a discussion, is it fortune telling, bullying, what? —DIYeditor (talk) 05:39, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

DIYeditor, bullying?. No, I am not "bullying". I have already said why it's not going to be included. I am not sure how you understood that as "bullying".--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 06:10, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Might be a language problem. When you say so-and-so is not going to happen like that you are implying you control whether it will happen (and in a slightly rude way, colloquially), or that you can see the future. You say "Not going to be included" in the edit summary and repeat the same sentiment in the text. You've done this sort of thing before (I've noticed it multiple times). Just don't understand what you are trying to say. Again this is a colloquial expression that has a certain implication I'm not sure if you are aware of. —DIYeditor (talk) 06:15, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

DIYeditor, you have noticed this before? Could you show me? I dont remember having any conversation with you before this day.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 06:32, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

I remember noticing you doing it before but not specifically when, and I went looking for examples in your edit history and found one very quickly. That I noticed you do this doesn't imply you did it to me. I notice your actions, like when you typed "Saudi Barbaria" revealing your extreme bias in a topic you edit. It's not because I am trying to notice you. You seem to stand out like this. —DIYeditor (talk) 06:37, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

DIYeditor, you think I am bias by calling the Saudi regime that killed a journalist in the context of their freedom of press and in the WP:RSN (not in the article) a barbaric regime?.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 06:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

I'm not going to comment on whether I think Saudi Arabia or any other muslim regimes are barbaric. If I did have a strong opinion on that I would know I should not edit articles related to that topic. You didn't explain whether you understand that, colloquially, when you say something that might happen is not going to happen, you are saying you either control it happening or can see the future. It seems kind of rude and bully-like but maybe you don't mean it that way at all. —DIYeditor (talk) 07:00, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Excuse my talk page lurking, but I simply can't resist. For the record, I am a native speaker of English. DIYeditor, while I understand your point about those edits, I would respectfully suggest that you're being a bit overly sensitive here. While certainly not the height of etiquette, to me, this is all squarely within the bounds of civil conduct on Misplaced Pages. I also think it is possible to have strong opinions on subjects and still follow WP:NPOV. Else I suspect we'd have to retire at least 98% of editors. Reasonable minds may differ, however. Cheers to both of you. Dumuzid (talk) 07:06, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

It's quirky, and either "slightly rude" as I said, or illogical. So I wanted to see what was up. —DIYeditor (talk) 07:12, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

DIYeditor, I was not trying to be rude, and I was not replying to you. I sometimes say "it's not going to be something" instead of "it shouldn't be something". It is not up to me what should be or should not be something as it is not up to me what is going to be or not going to be something. What next? Are you going to say "It should not be something" is also rude?. I think you are overacting. Now, I don't want new notifications in my talk page about this. Thank you.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 07:31, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

ANI

Notice of noticeboard discussion

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. WikiHannibal (talk) 17:59, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

The discussion has been closed, with the result that you have been topic banned from Saudia Arabia, broadly construed. Please feel free to ask for clarification should it be required. Primefac (talk) 17:05, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Hi

First, in a way of apology, as a native English speaker I often speak using idioms and shorthand. “Hate” and “paranoid” are often used casually in my social circles in real life, and very rarely literally so I didn’t think that they might be offensive to a non-native speaker. Apologies if taken that way.

More generally as a bit of background: I’m pretty familiar with ar.wiki because I do a lot of work with cross-wiki CU there. Ala’a is also a close personal friend and one of a handful of Wikimedians who knows my actual identity and keeps me informed of what goes on at that project. I’ve also worked with several of their sysops and CUs with issues on en.wiki so I’m somewhat of a known factor. Because of this I’m often a resource for ar.wiki editors trying to edit on this project, which is why I reached out to you after you made the transition. I’m aware of the political complexities of ar.wiki and realize en.wiki might be a better fit for some Arab users, including yourself. Every wiki is different and while you had a rough time on ar.wiki it doesn’t mean you need to have a rough time here.

I am going to point out issues that arise cross-wiki, however, and point out to you things that you’re doing that on this project would be considered disruptive. You’ve become irrational with how you deal with perceived Saudi bias here, which is an issue you have had elsewhere. I know you think you’ve been kind to Ala’a and باسم , but I’m fairly confident that they do not think you have been. You’re repeating the behaviour you showed towards them on meta here. You might not think it objectionable, but the people you are talking about, both here and on other projects do think so. That’s why I proposed a topic ban: you don’t realize where the line is. In both باسم and Alaa’s cases, neither of them are Saudi and talking about them like they’re part of some Saudi conspiracy would be extremely offensive. You might not have meant it that way, but to outside observers it read that way.

As for me not liking you, nothing could be farther from the truth. I really don’t care about people disagreeing with me. I disagree with friends on Misplaced Pages all the time. If you need me as a resource for anything, I’m still here and will gladly help. I just think you need to step back from issues regarding Saudi Arabia. You clearly have strong views there, most of them probably based on life experience I can’t imagine. I’m not trying to belittle that, but I am trying to preserve en.wiki’s policies here. Anyway, I hope that clarifies things :) TonyBallioni (talk) 07:07, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

TonyBallioni, again? Why are you saying false claims!. I never said anyone is a Saudi agent. I only said that it is highly likely that there are Saudi agents in that Arabic project. I never said Basam or Alaa are Saudi agents and I have never had any problem with Alaa. I had problem with Basam and it was over his unexplained reverts of my edits, never that I talked to him about Saudi Arabia. I can't have an explanation for your baseless accusations against me. Here is the discussionm:Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Sanaani, I have read it multiple times, I didnt find any comment of me saying that any of these editors are Saudi agents. You are embarrassing me and them with your claim.

You also clearly didn't know what happened between me and WikiHanniblal who was editwarring and when I warned him, he refused to self-revert and said it is especially valualbe, coming from someone who has already been blocked 4 times. Clearly making fun of me. WikiHanniblal was trying to add to the lead of Jamal Khossgghi that Jamal was a "Muslim brotherhood sympathizer". I said that is not sourced and that only Saudi bots have promoted this conspiracy theory based on this.

You came later and started to talk about the meta wikimedia, you clearly didn't know what happened between me and WikiHanniblal, you saw the word "sympathizer" and you thought I said that word. You said personal attacks on editors for being Saudi-sympathizers and/or agents. You thought I said the word "sympathizer". Also, I never said this in Arabic Misplaced Pages. I think I have never talked about Saudi Arabia in Arabic Misplaced Pages, at all. Even in English Misplaced Pages, that Jamal article was like the only article about Saudi Arabia that I have edited since 2 months (I think).--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 07:53, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

No false claims as all the claims are about how others view you. You can’t say that others are perceiving you wrong as it’s how they view your actions, not how you mean it. As I said, you don’t appear to be able to realize how you’re perceived by others. This is friendly advice meant to prevent you being blocked. You’re free to take it or ignore it, but it is good advice that reflects how multiple people on different projects perceive your actions. TonyBallioni (talk) 08:19, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

TonyBallioni, You are clearly making false claims. Anyone can see that discussion and know that I never said anything wrong. I will note your absolutely unacceptable language against me for the future.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 08:30, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

SharabSalam, I will say that I believe that you did not target anyone in particular with your Saudi agent comment. However, I must say that when you made so many allegations in that thread, it is possible for people to misinterpret your comments. Particularly, if anyone were to combine all your allegations together, there could indeed be ugly inferences, even if you never meant to make those inferences. I understand that that was a heated discussion which you were very invested in, it wasn't an easy situation for you. starship.paint (talk) 11:55, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

What happened?

Dude, what happened that got you banned from Saudi Arabian topics on Misplaced Pages? What did you do? New3400 (talk) 15:41, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

@Symmachus Auxiliarus: - please read WP:Courtesy vanishing, that's what has happened. Let's respect SharabSalam's wishes, okay? starship.paint (talk) 01:37, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Starship.paint, I figured this was a vanishing, but didn’t understand why an non-local user had vanished him, in the middle of a an AN thread, no less. This is irregular. Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 01:41, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

@Symmachus Auxiliarus: - you've already pinged Sotiale, and I'm doing it again. Sotaile, can you confirm that you received a request to courtesy vanish? Anyway, Symmachus Auxiliarus, there's no rush to keep this page at the old name. We can always fix this after Sotiale weighs in. starship.paint (talk) 01:44, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

On second viewing, Sotiale mentioned the request was here, although I don't have permission to view it. starship.paint (talk) 01:45, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

He applied for VANISH to the Global rename queue, and I handled it. The reason for his request is clearly stated as VANISH, and you can guess it by account name. --Sotiale (talk) 01:59, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Sotiale, that’s all well and good, but you do realize it’s out of order to vanish a user during an ongoing AN discussion concerning the user? Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 02:04, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

You should know that I have accepted his request through the global rename queue. I am not active on this wiki so there is no way for me to know if he is being discussed on AN. In addition to English Misplaced Pages, Wikimedia has Wikipedias and users in over a hundred languages, and they apply for numerous rename queues a day. It is practically impossible to know the discussion of all the communities. In general, in this case, you can revert if enwiki admins or users with Global rename permission requests revert. If they have permission, they can do it themselves when needed. --Sotiale (talk) 02:17, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Sotiale: This is obviously true, but it’s only a statement of fact. You’re supposed to check recent contributions for this sort of thing before renaming. Aside from checking the sole wiki they’re active on manually, there are tools available for you to do so automatically. Regardless, thank you for upholding accountability. But this was out of process, and you didn’t do your due diligence when renaming. I’m not suggesting you undo your action, but please be more careful in the future. Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 02:26, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Sotiale, global renamers (and Stewards no less) should avoid processing renames for projects that they are unfamiliar with, and this is exactly the reason why. It is our responsibility as renamers to make sure that we reasonably adhere to the m:Global rename policy. Unless any other renamer feels the need to reject, I will be reversing this rename as it is out of line with policy. Nihlus 02:59, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

I think reversing the rename makes sense, but I also don't really blame Sotiale. Yes, we're supposed to check what is going on, but they had a username block on ar.wiki, so it was a reasonable assumption it could be related to that or a desire to clean start on that project. People make mistakes. Sotiale is not one who frequently makes them. Nihlus, if you want to reverse it, that's fine because he said he didn't object. I think that would be the end of the discussion on this and everyone could move on. TonyBallioni (talk) 03:03, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

The rename has been processed. Nihlus 03:20, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Starship.paint, I should also point out that I am not User:New3400. I’m not sure why your reply to me was stated as if I were the OP (the language in your response makes it clear you were), or why I was pinged to this page to begin with. You seem to have conflated me with the other user. Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 04:30, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

@Symmachus Auxiliarus: - no, I was actually referring to you and not New3400, because you originally moved the talk page. I didn't see anywhere else to put my reply. starship.paint (talk) 04:46, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Ah, understood. I raised the issue on WP:AN shortly before replying here, as SharabSalam wasn’t eligible for vanishing. I assumed you had seen my posts there. I was a bit confused, but just wanted to make sure you knew I wasn’t affiliated with the OP. Symmachus Auxiliarus (talk) 05:06, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Reaching out

SharabSalam: I consider you a wiki-friend. You're near-vanishing deeply hurt me to see because I do not ever want to see you go! I want to help you clear up this Saudi Arabia controversy to help you get back to editing without any issue.

What's happened so far is that you made a statement about ar.wiki you intended in a non-offensive way. Tony saw that statement was interpreted it differently. Since then, there communication has not been great between you two.

I sincerely hope you do not leave this project. I value your contributions a lot, and to see you go would make me sad. –MJL ‐Talk‐ 03:54, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

(1) MJL, yes, this is sad. I did my best to help, and I'm sorry to see this happen. (2) Vanishing is meant to be a last resort. Unfortunately, with this vanishing controversy, it wouldn't be a good look for SharabSalam to return. Of course, if they do decide to return, this shouldn't stop them, but an explanation is needed. (3) Even if SharabSalam returns, we will need to work something out on their criticisms, which is the issue that got them into hot water. They would have to clearly state the target of their criticisms, every single time, to avoid wrong interpretations. starship.paint (talk) 04:23, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Topic ban from Saudi Arabia

- per the WP:AN discussion, you've been topic banned from Saudi Arabia, broadly construed. starship.paint (talk) 04:50, 5 June 2020 (UTC)