Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 09:45, 24 December 2006

Bosniaks (also spelled: Bosniacs; sometimes incorrectly refered to as Bosnian Muslims) are indigenous Slavic peoples of Bosnia. Up until the mid 19th century, the term Bosniak (natively: Bošnjaci) was used for all inhabitants of Bosnia regardles of faith.

In medieval Bosnia, Bosniaks were largely members of an indigenous Bosnian Church and were considered heretics by both the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches. As a result, some Bosniaks were forced to convert to Caholicism and Eastern Orthodox religions. During the Ottoman period (15th-19th century) mostly heretic Bosniaks in large numbers converted to Islam.

During the 19th century (Austro-Hungarian period), the Bosniaks of Catholic and Eastern Orthodox faiths acquired Croatian and Serbian national identites and came to be known as Bosnian Croats and Bosnian Serbs.

In terms of religion, today's Bosniaks are overhelmingly Sunni Muslims. Their mother tongue is Bosnian language, which is one of three official languages of modern day Bosnia-Herzegovina. Bosniaks are proud of their unique history, tradition, and European roots.

More info: CIA World FactBook

7000 estimate is antiquated

Bosniak, I just added this to the Srebrenica discussion page.

Based on the information available in 2001 the ICTY Trial Chamber stated it "is satisfied that, in July 1995, following the take-over of Srebrenica,Bosnian Serb forces executed several thousand Bosnian Muslim men. The total number is likely to be within the range of 7,000 -8,000 men."

Based on data available now in 2006, it is clear that the 7,000 estimate is too low.

The ICMP has a very strict accounting for Srebrenica victims and only accepts family testimony backed up with DNA samples. The ICMP list of Srebrenica victims is currently at 7,789. http://www.ic-mp.org/home.php?act=news&n_id=175 The Federal Commission of Missing Persons in 2006 is now over 8000. Their method is also strict requiring at least two independent confirmations. In addition to the approximately 8,300 confirmed by the commission, there are several hundred more under review. I have put in a request with a Harvard researcher to give the latest official numbers with primary source material. I hope to have that soon.

I believe the data now available in 2006 collected by internationally accredited institutions will substantiate that the introduction ought to say "approximately 8,000 killed" not the year 2001 estimate of "7,000 to 8,000". I want to thank Osli for inspiring this additional research and given his professed commitment to a rational approach to writing this article, I rest assured that he too will agree to the "approximately 8,000 killed" in the introduction once all the documentation has been presented. Hmmmm... well on second thought he'll probably go running to Seselj to get the latest "controversy" and do everything he can to sabotage putting a reasonable estimate based on ICMP research in the introduction, but so it goes. Fairview360 22:01, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

wasting my time with Osli the vandal

Bosniak , it is clear to me that Osli wants to create controversy or delete items or in one way or another distract from the basic facts of what happened in Srebrenica. I believe that by reasoning with him, I can expose the fact that many of his deletions are unjustified and are in fact meant to destroy the veracity of the article. If I can show that he repeatedly deletes well established and relavant facts, then it will become increasingly obvious to administrators that he is at times engaging in vandalism. Currently, I am focusing on the intro. I know that some of my time is wasted dealing with Osli who I hardly believe is a Swede and who I do not accept as genuinely concerned about anything other than promoting "Defend Milosevic! Defend Serbia" slants, but from time to time, I learn more while researching his specious claims which adds to my knowledge of the Srebrenica massacre and current ultra-nationalist tactics for covering up or distracting from what happened; and perhaps most relevant of all, I injured my back rather significantly recently and have time to burn. Hence my appearance here several days ago and my abundant time available to watch and thwart Osli's oscillations from overt vandalism to re-inventing himself as a reasonable editor. Its at times both pathetic and amusing. Fairview360 20:22, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Osli's vandalism

Bosniak, Live Forever, Bosoni, Emir Arven, HanzoHattori, Dado, Haris M:

I would like to protect the Srebrenica massacre introduction from any further vandalism by Osli. He repeatedly deletes sentences from the intro that are accurate, true, relevant, and well referenced.

If we can all agree on the text of the intro, then it will become entirely clear to administrators that Osli is a vandal.

Please look at the intro as it stands now. It would be great if we could all leave it as it is now or quickly come to an introduction that we all can agree to. Currently, it explains in stark terms what happened. That is why Osli wants to delete the sentences. Make the truth less clear in the beginning, so that he can then throw in his “Defend Milosevic! Defend Serbia!” propaganda and potentially confuse some of the readers.

Please all take a look at the intro. Let’s all come to an agreed upon intro and let it stand. Then if Osli continues to delete sentences from the intro it will clearly be vandalism and if he continues, perhaps he can be banned. Then we can concentrate on the article and let our own differences of opinion be a source for constructive conversation and continuing improvement of the article.

What do you think? Fairview360 00:44, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

keep your cool

Bosniak, I have seen the mass graves, the exhumations. I have friends who are survivors. I myself had a rough time trying to maintain rationality having seen the horror perpetrated by cold-hearted politicians, by willing executioners overtaken by hate and malice, and by those who were told by their commanders either kill or be killed. But Bosniak, you have to keep your cool. It does feel like what you really want to do is go outside and scream at the top of your lungs "The Serbs are murderers!". That statement in and of itself is not accurate. Some Serbs fought against the ultranationalist Serbs. There are Serbs who lost their lives trying to defend multi-ethnic democracy both in Serbia and in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Some Serbs did everything they could to confront the Greater Serbia project. If some of the Serbs and some of the Croats had not joined the Bosnian Army defending a multi-ethic democratic Bosnia, there would be no Bosniaks left in Bosnia. There are moderate reasonable Serbs who are nationalists who would agree to move forward in a multi-ethnic democratic system while all crimes are looked at openly. There are Serbs today who are not at all nationalist who want nothing less than to have their nation look honestly at what they did. And if we are going to take a deeper look at what generates these conflicts, we need to look at corruption and how it eats away at civil society and allows cold-hearted power-grabbing people to manipulate Balkan history and foster genocidal conflict. And without allowing the "all sides equal" obfuscation, we must look at everything everyone did both good and bad.

This is going to take generations, but we must find common ground with reasonable people so that the killing does not happen again.

Anyone who wants to put his energy into rehabilitating Lewis MacKenzie is obviously a problem, but even Osli can help improve the article. I'm sorry but he is correct that using your blog as a source is not OK. We need to put in the time finding primary source material.

In the free exchange of ideas put forth by honest people, the truth will emerge.

Bosniak, stick with it. Keep your cool. Do not quit. Fairview360 16:33, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

It is becoming clearer to me that Osli73 is sneaky, but still his challenges are indicative of others like him and good practice for refuting revisionist and underhanded tactics. Fairview360 19:54, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Osli may need to be tolerated to a certain extent, but ever since he tried to erase the names of those killed or missing and sneak it by as a minor edit, I would prefer that he was banned. That maneuver shows his true colors. Fairview360 14:44, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Minor Edits

Remember to mark your edits as minor only when they genuinely are (see Misplaced Pages:Minor edit). "The rule of thumb is that an edit of a page that is spelling corrections, formatting, and minor rearranging of text should be flagged as a 'minor edit'." Tuspm 01:18, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Bosniak's Reply:

Okay, I will do that in the future.

References

Hi Bosniak,

I just noticed your edit summary at The Holocaust. For this article you can make the references appear in the appropriate section by surrounding them with <ref></ref> tags. For example, if I wanted to cite www.cnn.com, I would type <ref></ref>. For more information see WP:Footnotes

GabrielF 01:23, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Bosniak's Reply

Thank you Gabriel, I finally did it, take a look:

http://en.wikipedia.org/The_Holocaust

Cheers!

Good work! Happy to help out. GabrielF 01:30, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Hello

I'm Adrien and new to this encyclopedia, I wondered if we could cooperate on the articles about Bosnia and Bosniaks. I would appreciate it.

And you could also copy my Bosnian history part onto your user page, if you wish. You can read it at my page.

Selam Bosoni

Bosniak's reply

Of course we can cooperate Adrien. You can also visit my blog http://srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.com and in the comments leave me your email address so I can contact you. Of course, I will not publish your comment, so your email will stay private. Please keep an eye on Misplaced Pages's Srebrenica Massacre article.

Cheers!

external links spam

Please stop spamming Misplaced Pages articles with repetitive and tangential external links. --Joy 02:10, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Bosniak's reply

They are not spam, all three links (Srebrenica Genocide, plus two links of US Government's reward for capture of Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic) are directly *relevant* to the topics in question, you idiot.

No, they are not directly relevant, they are tangentially relevant. Some semi-random blog about the Srebrenica massacre, and articles about rewards for war crime indictees, they simply shouldn't be plastered all over the place, it's insane. Imagine if we did it like that for everything else - post all links to world maps in all geography articles? --Joy 11:13, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Adrien here

Hello Bosniak, I left you a comment as suggested. I loved your blog, great work! Bosoni

Bosniak Reply

For Joy(shalot): $5 million reward is being offered by the U.S. government for the capture of Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic. I don't want to argue with you.

For Adrien: Hi friend, I got your email and I replied to it. But, and this is very important, I cancelled my internet service provider today and currently I am in process of switching to another one; new connection should be established in few days. Currently, I am sitting on my balcony overlooking downtown Vancouver and use free (*open*) wireless connection! It's pretty fast though. I will add your email to my MSN contact list, so I can catch you online. Cheers!

Update: Also my previous email is not working, because of internet service change - but I added you to my MSN; I'll give you my other email when I catch you online. Cheers again!

Bosoni/Adrien here, Hello

It's good that you told me about the ISP-change, because I sent you a reply to your last e-mail but the delivery failed, I see why now. I'll send my reply later to your new e-mail adress then =) (and I added you to my msn list) Good luck with everything, cheers Bosoni

Srebrenica

Thanks for returning the information in Srebrenica article. Unfortunately I don't have time to frequently proof read the entire article. I generally rely on users who are familiar with the subject to keep tabs on this article so that I don't have to be in charge of reading it every day. Also it would be of great help when you make additions to this article to carefully state the source simply to avoid further attacks on the article that waste time for all of us. What some may consider controversial statements such as the statement in your last addition, while it may be completely true, when left unsourced it weakens the credibility of the article and makes it prone to attacks. It does not mean the statement does not belong there but we just need to know where it came from and the fact supporting it. For example this paragraph

"Seven more have been recently put on trial. One person, Nikola Jorgic was convicted of Bosnian Genocide."

Will probably need a proper source and I am sure you can easily find it through Google or elsewhere.--Dado 20:41, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

In fact, now that I look at it this statement better fits article Bosnian genocide than Srebrenica massacre since activity of Nikola Jorgic pertains to other regions in BiH. I was unaware of this case. Thanks for the info.

Update on situation

Helo friend, I haven't heard anything from you for some time. What's new and how are you? Is your new internet connection and e-mail adress yet established? I should also tell you that I'm not a "diligent" user of MSN messenger, perhaps we could instead decide a specific occasion to give me the e-mail adress via MSN? (I also made my first edits with this account yesterday, on the Bosnian language article) Bye, Bosoni

Bosniak's Reply

Yes Bosoni! Hi! Few days ago, I sent you my new email address and it bounced! I will re-send it again! Hope it doesn't bounce. Cheers! Check your email.--Bosniak 03:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi! I checked it earlier today and replied, greetings. Bosoni

Bosniak's Reply to Dado

Hi Dado, you have my respect friend, as you are one of few dedicated Srebrenica massacre editors. I am not expecting you to be the only one monitoring and protecting the article, I encourage other Bosniaks and other reasonable people to do the same. Srebrenica massacre article must be protected against vandalism. Maybe we could protect the article in a way that only registered users can edit it?

Zasto si vratio Srebrenicki clanak na Fairview360-ovu verziju u kojem nije nista bitno promijenio osim sto je ostavio otvorena vrata za srpske vandale koji su jedva docekali da imaju razlog za razvaljivanje clanka? Neko je vec spomenuo da bi ovaj clanak trebao da lici na clanak, a ne na ustogljenu sudsku presudu, radi toga se radi parafraziranje dijelova presude, a ne identicno kopiranje, zbog cega cijeli clanak moze da propadne. Zamolio bih te da ne vracas vise na Fairview360-ovu, samo ce nam donijeti belaj. Jesil ti svjestan koliko je truda trebalo da se napravi clanak bez POV taga?! Ovaj clanak je zapocet prije godinu dana, i sada zbog nekih preemotivnih postupaka pojedinaca, a koji nista bitno ne mijenjaju treba da propadne? Nemojte se igrati! --Emir Arven 19:40, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Replika Emiru

Dobro Emire. Ali nemozemo dozvoliti da Osli razvaljuje clanak i mijenja cinjenicne izvore sa diskreditovanim srbijanskim izvorima. Slazes li se? --Bosniak 19:43, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Dao sam mu moj odgovor na stranici za diskusiju o Srebrenickom genocidu. Bitno je da su svi izvori pobrojani u clanku, koji su relevantni. To ce diskreditovati svaki propagandisticki pokusaj. Verziju koju sam ostavio je sasvim uredu, a poenta je da ne stvori prostora za vandale koji ce sitnice iskoristiti za stavljanje POV taga. --Emir Arven 19:50, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Srebrenica massacre

For your information, only administrators can protect pages. Adding {{sprotect}} and similar templates does not serve to protect a page. I have removed the template from that page, but you may list it on WP:RFPP if you think it should be protected. Stifle (talk) 23:13, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

No personal attacks

Personal attacks on other users are unacceptable - see WP:NPA. I've blocked you for 24 hours for the attack you made against User:Osli73 on Talk:Srebrenica massacre (). Please refrain from making such attacks in the future. -- ChrisO 18:55, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Endorse this, that kind of behaviour on such controversial articles causes far more problems than it solves. Calm down, read our policies on no personal attacks and civility then come back. - FrancisTyers · 19:04, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Srebrenica Genocide Blog

Bosniak, Are you (one of) the editor(s) of the Srebrenica Genocide blog? Just to set the record straight. Osli73 22:49, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Reply to Osli

That is none of your business. Unless you stop poisoning Srebrenica massacre article with moral relativism and already discredited Serbian sources, me and you cannot talk. When you stop your advertisements of discredited Serbian opinions, I will find time to speak to you again. Remember: Srebrenica article is not about Serbs or Serbian claims/politics - it's about 8,000+ victims of Genocide that was committed by Serb forces. Can you comprehed this statement? I am sure you can, but you don't want to. --Bosniak 06:11, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Bosniak, Going through your personal page I found this statement by you on you user page confirming that you, indeed, are the editor of the Srebrenica Genocide blog. In light of this I don't think it is a very good idea that you, as an editor, use your own website as a source/reference for the Misplaced Pages Srebrenica massacre article. It is then better to link directly to the original document. Cheers Osli73 07:27, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Mackenzie smear

That line on Lewis Mackenzie in Srebrenica massacre should not be included. It's sourced to a personal website (which we can't use, per WP:RS). It's a pure ad hominem clearly intended to impeach his credibility - it doesn't add anything to the article. Please do not restore it again. -- ChrisO 23:25, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

I realize perfectly well. :-) The policy is clear: content hosted on a personal website may not be used, other than in a few special cases outlined in WP:RS (none of which apply in this instance). We don't know that the news article reproduced on that page is reprinted accurately, or even that it was published at all (since it doesn't appear to be on the originating news agency's website). As it happens, this very issue has been discussed recently among editors of WP:RS. Such "convenience links" are considered inadmissible if the hosting website is not a reliable source.

The paper you cited at http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/femres.htm certainly does include this news article as a reference, but it makes no reference to the Mackenzie allegations and because of the way the article is cited, we actually don't know what the citation refers to. If the paper quoted the allegations then we might consider it a reliable source for those allegations, but it doesn't. The bottom line is that the allegations can't be reliably cited and so can't be included. -- ChrisO 02:51, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi ChrisO

I don't understand what you are trying to say. The article is cited to:

COPYRIGHT PACIFIC NEWS SERVICE 450 Mission Street, Room 506 San Francisco, CA 94105 415-243-4364 Date: 06/04/1993

The fact that someone posted it on geocities has nothing to do with the credibility of the article; this is original article with full copyright notice. It's over 13 years old and was published when internet was only barely beginning to be used.

What's the problem? Is the truth problem again? I would not be surprised if you banned me and all your opponents from wikipedia. Now, I see, we are not even allowed to use this article as a source, but our opponents are allowed to use Lewis Mackanzie's genocide denials as a source ?

Don't you see double standard here? Bosniak 04:16, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Hey

I read through the Bosnian war article recently and found it horrible, it completly neglects the overwhelming majority of serb crimes. It follows up an indirect statement that all three sides were equally guilty, we all know the case isn't like that. It would be like stating that all sides in world war two were equally guilty, ludacris! Please look over the article =) Regards! (P.S, I haven't had the time for mails and msn yet) Bosoni

Consensus

You are supposed to work with the editors of Srebrenica massacre to come to a consensus. You, or the Bosniaks in general, do not own the article. Comments like

• "rv. to Bosniak: other guys, come from time to time to this page and revert to Bosniak, protect article from Osli73, bye..." (summary)
• "I will keep reverting and reverting" (edit summary)
• "Dado and other Bosniak editors - please re-read the whole article and do appropriate adjustments just in case vandals inserted something that we have not noticed lately." (edit summary)

are not acceptable. Please play by Misplaced Pages's rules. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 04:36, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Response to Jitse

You guys are also not owners of wikipedia. Osli73 will not have it his way, that I can promise. With respect to you Jitse, I have no beef with you man.

I have opposing views - and if anyone is afraid of my opinion, which is heavily based on International Tribunal's rullings, then it's their problem (not mine).

Hope you understand. I will not allow Osli73 to have it his way. That's the bottom line. This is 💕 and anyone can edit it, including me. Bosniak 06:58, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Srebrenica massacre

Bosniak, I'd ask you to be a little more careful when revertying Osli's changes on the Srebrenica massacre article. I made some big improvements to the "Serb casualties" section that you completely ignored whenyou reverted. Live Forever 09:31, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Response to Live Forever

Hi Live Forever, yes you did some changes on one part of the article, but completely ignored changes that Osli73 did. You need to keep changing his changes to keep that article on a level of high quality that was before. If you do changes, revert to my last version and do changes from there, and then when I start editing the article, I will do them from your version. Please do it this way and we will succeed in keeping the article on a level of encyclopedia quality. Thanks bro. Bosniak 03:07, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

number of missing

Bosniak, the latest statement from the Federal Commission of Missing Persons that I can find is from June 2005. At that time they had 500 more names under review with more coming. Do you know where there are updated numbers from the Commission? Fairview360 14:32, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Reply to Fairview

Hi Fairview, updated list is here, with accurate number of dead: http://www.srebrenica-zepa.ba/srebrenica/spisak.htm

Hope this helps. Bosniak 05:37, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Another thing:

Yes, Osli73 is vandalizing Srebrenica article. If you look at the history of his contributions, you will notice that he is obsessed with Srebrenica Massacre article Osli73 Contributions. By entering into discussion with him, you are violating basic principle of common sense - to stay away from unreasonable individuals. He takes a great pride in destroying the article, although he is not succeeding. Hopefully, wikipedia administrators will notice his behaviour and either suspend him, or ban him completely. His only purpose is to vandalize Srebrenica Massacre article, he has no other purpose here @ wikipedia. You should not try to reason with him, you are just wasting your time my friend. There will always be people who will vandalize wikipedia, and that's sad (but true). Bosniak 05:47, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Block requested

This is just a courtesy message that I requested on Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Srebrenica massacre that you be shortly blocked for personal attacks and blind reverts. -- Jitse Niesen (talk) 14:30, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

• • • This response is from Bosniak (talk · contribs) ***

I agree that edit wars should stop, but you need to realize that Osli73 (talk · contribs) is primary to blame for edit wars, blind reverts, and full blown vandalism of Srebrenica Massacre article. I would be more than glad to stop reverting article to more civilized versions, but please bear in mind that Osli73 (talk · contribs) needs to stop first, because he is leading a war with at least 10 other editors who refuse to accept his vandalism. In other words, Osli73 (talk · contribs) is vandalizing Srebrenica massacre article, he deletes facts such as the fact that 8,106 Bosniaks died in the massacre (well documented, with names, JMBR numbers, names of parents, etc). In my opinion, and in the opinion of at least 10 other editors, Osli73 needs to be banned from ever editing Srebrenica massacre article. Bosniak 00:00, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Srebrenica intro

Bosniak, I added a message for you in the Srebrenica discussion page, topic #47 Fairview360 16:23, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Image tagging for Image:Bosnian girl raped by serbs.jpeg

Thanks for uploading Image:Bosnian girl raped by serbs.jpeg. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Misplaced Pages's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

• Misplaced Pages:Image use policy
• Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Misplaced Pages:Media copyright questions. 04:04, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

License tagging for Image:Srebrenica Child Hung.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Srebrenica Child Hung.jpg. Misplaced Pages gets thousands of images uploaded every day, and in order to verify that the images can be legally used on Misplaced Pages, the source and copyright status must be indicated. Images need to have an image tag applied to the image description page indicating the copyright status of the image. This uniform and easy-to-understand method of indicating the license status allows potential re-users of the images to know what they are allowed to do with the images.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

• Misplaced Pages:Image use policy
• Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. If you need help on selecting a tag to use, or in adding the tag to the image description, feel free to post a message at Misplaced Pages:Media copyright questions. 05:07, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Hey friend

Just dropping by to let u know I'm still alive =D. However I'm really busy now, barely no time for other things than work =(. Bye Bosoni

Bosniak's reply: hi Adrien, of course I am alive my friend, how are you doing? keep an eye on Srebrenica Massacre article. Cheers! :) Bosniak 02:43, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

hello

Bosniak, I hardly find you objective. I mean, your username is Bosniak, I don't trust people who's username is their ethnic affiliation. Please, keep your nationalism at home, thank you. --Serb 03:35, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Bosniak's reply to Boris Malagurski - I keep my nationalism at home, which is not the case with you. You want to impose your nationalism to Misplaced Pages's Srebrenica Massacre article, which will not happen. That I can promise you. We had other Serbs in the past trying to destroy Srebrenica Massacre article with thier lies and propaganda, they failed. You will fail too. Cheers. Bosniak 03:38, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Look, I'm sure we can deal with the conflict in a civilized manner. But you first have to face that the article is not neutral because it doesn't tell all sides of the story. All I want is the neutrality tag in the article, thats all. I won't touch the text. --Serb 03:42, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, since you noticed the declaration on my talk page, it would be nice to donate your bosnian translation on my talk page. Don't forget to sign it, so I know who it's from, thank you. --Serb 03:47, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Bosniak's reply to Boris Hi Boris, of course we can deal in civilized matter. Why do you think that the article is not neutral? Can you at least discuss this in Srebrenica Massacre's discussion page? If you want your edits to stay longer, you need to discuss it before you make any changes. People are very sensitive to any changes to that article. Even when I make a change, they are sensitive to it. Why do you think that the article does not tell all sides of the story? Are you trying to tell that Naser Oric attacked Serb villages and Serbs had to defend themselves from Bosniaks who were under siege? You guys used same argument in the past with Sarajevo, basicly the story goes that you had to defend yourself from Bosniak people in Sarajevo who were under siege. You can try these arguments in discussion page, but it's pointless and offensive to use such arguments as a defence. However, you are welcome to try. Simply go to discussion page, tell people reasons of your edits and sources and then we will all compromise. It's simple as that. No need for personal attacks as we can all deal in civilized matter. Bosniak 03:53, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

One more thing - I already donated my translation to your page, and I copied your translations to my page. I think there is a chance that both of us get along well, because you recognized t hat over 8,000 people were killed in Srebrenica @ Srebrenica Massacre discussion page. That's all I care about. Bosniak 03:55, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Please don't call me nationalist. Lets start from there. --Serb 03:58, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Secondly, I do admit that 8,000 people were killed, I do not deny it. I'd like at least this sentence in the article "Some people (mainly Serbs) consider the massacre an act of defense against Naser Oric and his troops that massacred Serb villages of Kravica and others" If that was there, or some variation of the sentence, that would make me happy. Thats all. --Serb 04:01, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Bosniak's reply to Boris - If you pay more attention to Srebrenica massacre discussion page, you will see that I do not sympathize Naser Oric, see my comment [Naser Oric is not a Bosniak hero. At Srebrenica massacre discussion page you recognized that genocide happened. At this point, there is no need for further confrontation as you are obviously not denying finall judgements and findings of International Crimes Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia.

If you want Serb side of the story, why not post this statement: "Most Serbs consider the massacre an act of revenge against Naser Oric and his troops who committed individual war crimes during raids into Serb villages."

The reason these raids cannot be called massacres is the following: Serbs blame Oric and his forces for hundreds of deaths in Kravice during Orthodox Christmas in January 1993. Republika Srpska primary sources state that in Kravica 35 soldiers and 11 civilians died. If we are going to call slaughter of 11 civilians a massacre, then we could apply that term to mostly all killings in Bosnia. What I can agree with you is that individual actions of Oric's troops in Kravica were a war crime and I absolutely condemn these killings. However, they cannot be used for justification of genocide, and I don't believe you are trying to use them as such. Bosniak 04:15, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Listen, I don't believe that Srebrenica was an act of genocide, and of course, nothing you say is going to change my mind. I do NOT justify the killings and think that Ratko Mladic deserves the DEATH penalty for what he did. Neither do I think that Naser Oric's mistakes were justification for the killing of refugees who had no where else to go and most likely had nothing to do with the crimes that Oric's troops comitted. So, I thank you for adding the sentence, and agree to the removal of the POV tag. I would also like to draw your attention to one more thing - the photo on your userpage in not from Commons, therefore you're not allowed to use it. I suggest you transfer it to Commons, or remove it before they protect your user page like they did mine. I would also like to add that I do think you're obsessed with the massacre, and should get out more. I do my fair share of obsessing about what happened, but you're going too far. Enjoy life. --Serb 07:32, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Final Reply to Boris Malagurski

You stated that you deny that the massacre in Srebrenica was an act of Genocide. At this point, we are enemies. I am not going to negotiate with you any longer, and your genocide denial edits will be erased swiftly and accordingly. Have a great day. Bosniak 19:22, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Err, this declaration of intent to hostile editing is inappropriate.Blnguyen | BLabberiNg 03:05, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok, you have been blocked for a week for ultimatums to undertake legal threats. Blnguyen | BLabberiNg 03:37, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

And I would back that up. We don't mess around with legal threats. --Woohookitty 04:11, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Bosniak is very sensitive to the issue of genocide denial, understandably, and doesn't always express himself in tempered tones. But Blnguyen it seems to me that you've simply responded to the tone of his language rather than the substantive justification for his action.

The ICTY, a member of the United Nations family of organisations and the legal authority in the field, has ruled in the Krstic case that the Srebrenica massacre could be termed genocide in accordance with the provisions of the Genocide Convention. No other international forum has overthrown that ruling. The ICTY is currently hearing cases in which charges of genocide are involved. I think it is fair to assume that the defence will present all current arguments challenging the categorisation of the Srebrenica massacre as genocide to the Court. The Court will then rule as to whether its previous opinion should be overthrown. There is no room for any personal expression of doubt in this article. I might dispute the legitimacy of Slobodan Milosevic's assumption of the presidency of Yugoslavia or equally George W. Bush's election as President of the United States but I cannot change the content of an entry to indicate that they were not President of their respective nations.

Bosniak was right to insist that denials of genocide will be edited out of this article. There is no scope to allow any further denial of genocide unless and until the ICTY's ruling is overthrown. Even though I don't always agree with the way Bosniak expresses his views, in this case he is absolutely correct. Personally I find it a moral outrage that genocide at Srebrenica is denied but for the purposes of this article we're trying to pretend that moral outrage doesn't exist and keep to the facts. Genocide at Srebrenica is a fact established in international law. I ask the moderators of this article to accept that.Opbeith 10:04, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Image tagging for Image:Srebrenica Child Raped Hung.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Srebrenica Child Raped Hung.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Misplaced Pages's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

• Misplaced Pages:Image use policy
• Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Misplaced Pages:Media copyright questions. 20:08, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Pametniji popušta. Fine, I take it back, happy? --Serb 04:43, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

I have removed the image from your user page. Fair use images are not permitted in user space, and this is not negotiable. If you restore the image I will block you, just as I have blocked Serbian editors in the past for similar acts. --ajn (talk) 08:56, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Origin of the picture: I can't give the precise origin but in case it helps anyone track down the original source I remember this photograph or a very similar one being published in The Guardian in a non-cropped form (more woodland background) in July 1995, as the first women survivors were arriving in Tuzla from Srebrenica. Opbeith 11:07, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

List of Bosniaks

Regarding this diff of yours. I removed the Medieval figures - as there are unsourced claims for their Bosniakhood and are even far too controversal to consider them as such. Also, the mergetag's suggestion has been refused long ago at the talk page. Cheers, mate! --HolyRomanEmperor 22:37, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

I know that there is a claim - but the same is claimed by Croats & Serbs. This way, while I was fighting Croatian and Serbian POV it might seem I allow Bosniac POV - which is a very bad image. When we come to historical "proving" of their Bosniakhood - we will, sadly, be strictly limited to modern-day claims. --PaxEquilibrium 11:17, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Also, with this diff of yours you again returned the merge-to tag which was I repeat, refused at the talk page a LOOONG time ago. Also, you removed three famous Bosniaks and rm the fact that that's an incomplete list. Why did you do all that? --PaxEquilibrium 11:23, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Uploaded photo - copyright issue

Hi,

I just noticed that in the article Srebrenica Genocide you uploaded a photo of a hanged girl. You did specify the source, I checked it out, but you did not write (copy/pasted) either under the photo or in the discussion section the permission information. You just noted that the permission was given, but without the email in which the permision is specifically given. If you have it, put it up, otherwise, the photo will be deleted. If you really want photo to stay, contact them on the website you provided and specifically ask for permission and then copy/paste the correspondance email under the photo.

Thanks,

Svetlana Miljkovic 09:12, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Warning on removing speedy deletion tags

I would suggest you do not create incomplete articles that look like nonsense, they will get tagged according to guidelines. Speedy deletion means exactly that. When I tag such an article I am not vandalizing, I am doing the correct thing. When you remove the speedy deletion tag, however, it is you that are making the error.

Please do not remove speedy deletion tags from articles that you have created yourself. If you do not believe the article deserves to be deleted, then please place {{hangon}} on the page and make your case on the article's talk page. Administrators will look at your reasoning before deciding what to do with the article. Thank you. --ArmadilloFromHell 21:29, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Disruption warning

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing. However, unconstructive edits, such as those you made to Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Serbophobia (third nomination), are considered vandalism. If you continue in this manner you may be blocked from editing without further warning. Please stop, and consider improving rather than damaging the work of others. Thank you. Demiurge 23:37, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

Please stop. If you continue to vandalize pages by deliberately introducing incorrect information, as you did to Anti-Bosniak sentiment, you will be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages. —Psychonaut 11:26, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Please cite your sources

Your recent contribution(s) to the Misplaced Pages article Srebrenica massacre did not provide specific references or sources. Keeping Misplaced Pages accurate and verifiable is very important, and as you might be aware there is currently a drive to improve the quality of Misplaced Pages by encouraging editors to cite the sources they used when adding content. Editors may choose to remove material you have contributed if it is not verifiable. Please provide specific references in your contributions to any books, articles, websites or other reliable sources that will allow people to verify the content. You can use a citation method listed at inline citations that best suits each article. Thanks! —Psychonaut 11:30, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Stop!

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. We invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing. However, unconstructive edits, such as those you made to Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Serbophobia (third nomination), are considered vandalism. If you continue in this manner you may be blocked from editing without further warning. Please stop, and consider improving rather than damaging the work of others. Thank you. Svetislav Jovanović 20:53, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Bosniakophobia AfD

Two quick pointers:

• The best place to put new comments (unless they're directly responding to someone else, which yours wasn't) is at the bottom of the discussion in order to prevent grandstanding.
• While AfD isn't a vote, adding two comments saying "do not delete" isn't usually the best form. Indeed, a fair amount of your comments duplicate material you've already posted in that discussion. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 07:00, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Regarding your votes, I would point out the following. As the AfD clearly shows, you left a comment saying DON'T DELETE at 22:15, 23 November 2006. That counts as your vote, inasmuch as there are "votes" in an AfD. There was another comment (in fact dated earlier, I see now - 21:49, 23 November 2006) which began with the bolded phrase DO NOT DELETE which you'd also left. That makes two votes. Then, at 06:51, 26 November 2006 you posted a third vote headed Don't delete and in fact repeated the exact same information as you had previously done ("In the beginning, Serbophobia returned only 2 matches at Google..."). All I was doing was tidying things up so that only one of your three votes was in fact there and so that one of your two duplicate comments was there. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 07:16, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

And in terms of the comments themselves, you did not "give more detailed explanation second time". What you gave was the exact same opinion the second time. The only difference was that the second time was entirely in boldface. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 07:21, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

I've responded to your comment on my Talk page for clarity. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 07:29, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism

This is the only warning you will receive.
Your recent vandalism to Anti-Bosniak sentiment will not be tolerated. The next time you vandalize a page, you will be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages. —Psychonaut 14:09, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Block request

As a courtesy, I am notifying you that I have posted a message on WP:ANI requesting that you be blocked for your repeated disruptive behaviour in defiance of warnings. —Psychonaut 14:46, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

for your vote tampering on AFD you have been blocked for one week.Geni 23:03, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Hej...

Ne razumijem zašto nam treba taj članak. To nije pozitivno o Bosni i Hercegovini. Već postoji "Anti-Bosniak Sentiment" što, koliko ja vidim, je isti pojam. Ako hoćete, ja ću vas podržavati ako mi vi pomognete oko infokutije za BiH opčine. Dovoljno je imati jednu infokutiju koja bi imala u sebi entitete. Trenutno imaju dvije ("Infobox BiH" i "Infobox RS"). Ja vam odmah kažem da to je totalna glupost. Nama ne treba "RS Infobox" infobox ako entitet piše u BiH infokutije. Dakle, zamolio bih vas da se učlanite na Wikiprojekat BiH, ja sam "headmaster", i da vidimo ako možemo promijeniti ovaj problem. Ja ću vas rado podržavati za "bosniakophobia", ali lično mislim da je ovo preci problem koji se mora riješiti. Hvala i pozdrav, Vseferović 16:47, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Copyright violations

You have uploaded a number of images without sources and/or copyright information. You have been warned about this, and asked to provide such information.

You recently uploaded the image Image:Flag_of_Bosnia-Herzegovina.gif and claimed that you were the creator of this image, and that you released it into the public domain. However, this image is a bit-for-bit copy of an image on a flags website. Given your past image contributions, I suspect that the source and licensing information you provided is incorrect, so I have tagged the image for deletion. If I am wrong and you can prove that you are the original creator and copyright holder of this image, please contest the deletion by using the {{hangon}} tag.

You also uploaded the image Image:Mladic Karremans Toast.jpg, which you claim is licensed under a CC license. However, this photo appears on various news websites credited to AP. As far as I know, AP does not release its photos under CC licenses, so I have nominated this image for speedy deletion.

Given the above, could you please provide evidence that you are the photographer or copyright holder of Image:Srebrenica-Massacre-Wall.jpg? That photograph appears on various news sites, such as this article from Al Jazeera. Please also provide evidence for your images Image:Srebrenica-Genocide-Memorial.jpg and Image:Bosniak_flag.gif. —Psychonaut 17:58, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Bosniakophobia

Sorry, I don't see the point of having two separate parallel articles. I'm gonna have to vote merge. --PaxEquilibrium 18:11, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Bosniakophobia Protest

Hi Blnguyen,

Other admin has censored my vote for article Bosniakophobia. He crossed "delete" two times, and this way, he has taken my vote, he has censored it not once, but twice! Please serve as fair mediator, here is the link http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Bosniakophobia Bosniak 07:11, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Hey Bosniak, looks like things have been rectified but it seems obvious that the article will be deleted anyway. Are there still any outstanding issues? Blnguyen (bananabucket) 01:50, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Come on Geni, you must love to block people, don't you?

Bosniak (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

your 7 days is too long

Decline reason:

Based on the evidence here, you're lucky that you weren't blocked for longer. Khoikhoi 04:29, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Serb nationalists on the go, again!

Please help, there's problems with the article List of Serb war criminals, serbs are calling it POV just because it lists! And are voting for deletion because they obviously want to hide the crimes. Ancient Land of Bosoni

Getting community attention

I notice you've made a large number of very similar posts to user talk pages, recently. Instead of doing that, you might consider a quick post to the village pump or another community noticeboard, so that interested editors can comment if they so choose. It saves both you and other editors time and effort to keep discussion centralized and cohesive. I'd prefer to consider this a friendly note, but please do see WP:SPAM#Canvassing to see what policy/guideline pages have to say on the matter. Let me know if you have any questions about this. Thanks for your time, and good luck. Luna Santin 08:19, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

re: comment on my talk page

Hello Bosniak.. someone deleted your comment on my talk page before I even saw it! However wikipedia still told me there was a change obviously.. Hm, I wasn't aware that this conflict was going on that you mention, although I agree that a lot of people (especially from the Balkans!) use wikipedia to advance their narrow nationalistic understanding of history. In a way you can't blame people because everyone is raised in a certain society that puts a spin on history. But when you're actively suppressing unpleasant facts, it certainly crosses the line. Anyways I don't know if I would consider either Bosniakophobia or Serbophobia proper words.. It's just an awkward way of creating a word (-phobia) and personally I would rather the plainer way of saying it "anti-Bosniak sentiment" or some other way. Anyways let me know if I can help you sometime. Dan Carkner 13:50, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

True

Sure many articles relating to former Yugoslavia and its people have some strong Serb Pov. The Serb users are very active on Wiki.

You're right articles with so called lies get copied from Wiki onto other websites and before you know it the lie has spread. I think these Users are aware of this wide spread power and that's why they keep making edits or as many edits as possibe to articles ...pushing propaganda. Very Sad> Some Serb Users have made over 300,000 edits. This is alarming to say the least. Who can patrol what has been edited???

Not much you can do mate, just keep pluging away and keep fighting them the right way. First discuss and see why they keep changing facts with no proof. In most case you will find they sight Serbian propaganda books etc...

Eg Some users keep changing Rudjer Boscovich from Croat to Serb. They keep doing it when it is wellknown the guy was Croat...still doesn't stop someone from editing the article into what they like to believe. In saying that most Serb users are fine and aware of this problem...+ not all sides are innocent...but yes the Serb users are a fair bit more active. Keep up the fight. 218.185.84.181 22:39, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Bosniakophobia

It is interesting how Serbs promoted invented word "Serbophobia" on the internet. First they introduced the word to wikipedia, and then thousands of other scrapper sites copied content from wikipedia, and now Google yields thousands of matches for this invented word. Of course, while Bosniaks wanted to do the same, and create an article Bosniakophobia, Serbs quickly jumped and voted "NO!". And of course, attempts to create Bosniakophobia article failed thanks to Serbian activism on wikipedia! They don't use wikipedia for educational, but for their nationalistic/politic purposes. It is sickening to see Serbian propaganda and lies poisoning Misplaced Pages. What we Bosniaks need to do is focus more on Srebrenica Massacre article which is under attack by pro-Serbian vandals and revisionists/deniers on a daily basis.

In hopes that Bosniakophobia article will see light again.

Peace Bosniak Bosniak 01:20, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Removing your comments

First of all, I am an administrator. Secondly, there are policies that deal with mass campaigning on user talk pages: this one and this one, not to mention this one. Bring this up on the Village Pump instead of mass-spamming other editors' user talk pages. --Coredesat 02:30, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if you're an admin, it's none of your business deleting material from userpages. Dan Carkner 02:39, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Bosniak, just to let you know that I removed your comment from Talk:Srebrenica massacre. As it says on top of that page: "This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Srebrenica massacre article", see also the talk page guidelines. Your message was not about the article, it was only complaining about the behaviour of some other editors. Yours, Jitse Niesen (talk) 04:13, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

I have reverted your personal attacks here: . Do not call other good faith editors vandals, and do not make insinuations about the motivations for their edits based on ther POV or ethnicity. Reinsert them and you will be blocked. Dmcdevit·t 13:18, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Can I trust Yugoslavia articles in English wiki?

Hello.

I am working on expanding articles about Yugoslavia in the Hebrew wiki.

Currently, the main source for information is the English wiki.

Do you think the articles about Yugoslavia in English wiki are reliable and balanced? Are there disputed parts of the articles that better not be translated? I rather not to say anything about a sensitive issue then writing incorrect claims. (I'll start with the article "Yugoslavia" and the articles about Bosnia, Serbia, and Croatia).

Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 132.72.45.187 (talk) 18:15, 17 December 2006 (UTC).

Hi my Jewish friend. No you can't trust "Yugoslavia" related articles, they are mostly run by Serb propagandists. Let me get in touch with you, so I can help you with it on Hebrew wikipedia. I would like to point some documentation to your attention regarding holocaust of Bosniaks and Jews in Jasenovac, from Bosnian documented sources. Bosniak 21:54, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm sick of people who are pretending to be anti-nationalist while being greater nationalist then those who say it uncovered and loud.

People who were killed in Jasenovac were of Serbian (most of them), Jewish, Muslim (Bosniak), Roma nationality and other nationalities, not just Jewish and Bosniaks.

I would advice our Jewish friend that, if he thinks that he can't rely on wikipedia's data, then should find some Hebrew book about Yugoslav history! --S T E V A N 00:46, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Stevan, I suggest you start learning about holocaust of Jews and Bosniaks in Jasenovac by purchasing books here www.interliber.com . And I do agree that Jasenovac victims came from all backgrounds. Bosniak 06:04, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Prestani vise

Dobro te je vise Bosniak. Taman se jedna verzija stabilizira clanka o Srebrenici i onda ti zaseres svojim manijakalnim vracanjem!!! a na taj nacin se izgube i korisne promjene koje su unesene i slike koje su postavljene. Nauci da promjene vracas tako sto pogledas link "history", tamo kliknes datum na verziju od tog datuma i spasis stranicu, ako vec to do sada nisi naucio. Ako ne prestanes sa ovim licno cu te prijaviti za blokiranje. Emir Arven 18:00, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Stanley Park

Please do not make empty threats in an attempt to justify your actions at Stanley Park. If you had read the edit history first, you would be aware that your material duplicated text that was already in the article, and more appropriately placed. Furthermore, if you had investigated, you would have seen that I made an effort to incorporate your material into the existing text. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, you blindly reverted back to your last edit, completely ignoring the fact that you obliterated a lot of work by several other editors. Please use more caution, and consider discussing your concerns on the talk page first. Thank you. --Ckatz_spy 06:21, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Stanley Park again

If you have issues about the content of the article, please participate in the discussion on the article's talk page. I have tried to work with your additions, not destroy them, in my subsequent edits, and have tried to explain myself on the talk page in an effort to achieve consensus on the content. Edit warring is not helpful to the quality of the article. Neither is disguising reversions as "restructuring"; please keep in mind the Three-revert rule, or more importantly, the spirit of the rule and Misplaced Pages generally. Thank you, Bobanny 21:17, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

User talk:Bormalagurski

Please don't post trollish comments on user talk pages. Thanks, Khoikhoi 07:17, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Do not repost deleted content

I note from your comment on HanzoHattori's talk page that you propose to recreate the Bosniakophobia and/or Anti-Bosniak sentiment articles which were deleted in accordance with Misplaced Pages's deletion procedure. You should be aware that it is not permitted to repost deleted articles, and that given your recent behaviour you could be blocked or even permanently banned for doing so. —Psychonaut 09:45, 24 December 2006 (UTC)