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Map violates WP:NOR

@Kautilya3: The map in the "Establishment" section was created by you, was it not?Erik-the-red (talk) 15:00, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

No, it is OpenStreetMap. I have only marked the locations on it, as found in the RS. If you believe that any locations are marked wrong or unsourced, you are welcome to raise the issue. But the map itself is standard. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 15:09, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

@Kautilya3: Oh boy, another of your infamous "technicalities." As you admit, you marked the locations. Therefore, the map previously shown in the "establishment" section was created by you.Erik-the-red (talk) 15:21, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Disputed area

Erik-the-red, you have removed the sourced content that states that the area was disputed. The relevant quote from one of the sources says:

Although no criss-cross of Indian and Chinese posts was anticipated on the NEFA frontier, a certain rashness was demonstrated by the placement of an Indian post in an area near the Bhutan-Tibet-NEFA trijunction. It was located in the valley of the Namkachu River, below a ridge called Thagla (see Maps 7 and 8). The post would be called Dhola, after a pass lying further to the south. In 1959 and 1960 the Chinese had shown themselves to be quite sensitive about this area, since they differed with the Indian interpretation of how the McMahon line was situated in it. The Khinzemane incident of August 1959 had occurred not far away.

Can you explain why you removed this fact? -- Kautilya3 (talk) 15:06, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

References

1. Hoffmann, India and the China Crisis (1990), pp. 108–110.

@Kautilya3: I removed it because the Henderson Brooks-Bhagat report on pages 52 and 53 make it clear that Dhola Post was established north of the McMahon Line. Therefore, Dhola Post was not established in disputed territory; it was established in China as per the McMahon Line. That India believes the McMahon Line does not follow the watershed principle is a separate issue. It does not contradict the fact that Dhola Post was established in China north of the McMahon Line.

Incidentally, since you have repeatedly argued that there is no source stating that Dhola is in Tibet, China, I can't help but notice that your own source that you've just quoted placed Dhola, quote, "near the Bhutan-Tibet-NEFA trijunction." Of course, according to you, it must be WP:SYNTH to argue that if Dhola Post was north of the McMahon Line near the Bhutan-Tibet-NEFA trijunction and on China's side of the McMahon Line, Dhola is in Tibet, China.Erik-the-red (talk) 15:15, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

As per WP:RS and WP:SCHOLARSHIP, Misplaced Pages gives weight to scholarly sources, not outdated government reports (and this particular report is not even declassified). You cannot delete content sourced to scholarly sources without producing other scholarly sources of equal stature, and even then you are bound by WP:NPOV to present all view points. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 15:21, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

@Kautilya3: Oh, the Henderson Brooks-Bhagat report is an "outdated government report" now? I suppose that's an upgrade from your false claim that it's a "primary source." Speaking of which, I can't help but notice that you cited 7 primary sources from the Indian Ministry of External Affairs in the article. Will your hypocrisy never end?

Regardless of your blatant hypocrisy, you are muddying the waters on what the dispute is. Unless you have an "updated" "scholarly source" stating that Dhola Post was established south of the McMahon Line, the fact remains that as per the Henderson Brooks-Bhagat report, Dhola Post was established north of the McMahon Line, placing it in China. That India believes the McMahon Line doesn't follow the watershed principle is a separate issue that you're conflating.Erik-the-red (talk) 15:28, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Please respond in this section, not in Sources. That is meant to be just a list of sources that you can look up when cited.

Primary sources are used as per policy, WP:PRIMARY. They are not used to contradict WP:SECONDARY scholarly sources. Surely the scholars know whatever we know and much more. You cannot argue that whatever source you like is the only one that Misplaced Pages should rely on. Saying that it is "disputed" does not invalidate one view or the other. Both the Indians and the Chinese knew that they had differing interpretations. Exchanges had taken place when the Khinzemane post was first discussed. You are ignoring all this, and removing content that presents the context.

I am afraid you are repeatedly ignoring the Misplaced Pages pillar of WP:NPOV. This cannot go on for ever. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 18:23, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

@Kautilya3: Please point out where the Henderson Brooks-Bhagat report (itself a secondary source) "contradicts" the secondary sources of your choosing.

Dhola is located north of the McMahon Line. There is no dispute about that. Therefore, Dhola is located in China. The dispute is whether the McMahon Line is "supposed to be" further north than it actually is based on the watershed principle. But that is a separate matter from Dhola being located north of the McMahon Line and therefore in China.

I have neither ignored this point nor removed content that presents the context. In fact, I have made sure the context is presented in "Location and background": "While the Thagla Ridge is to the north of the McMahon Line, India believed that the 1914 map incorrectly depicted the border due to inadequate exploration at that time. India held that if the boundary was supposed to follow the Himalayan watershed, then the correct border should have been on the Thagla Ridge."

The language I have used makes clear that the Indian position is that the border "should" be on the Thagla Ridge, but the McMahon Line is actually south of the Thagla Ridge. Your weasely "disputed" language does not make that clear.Erik-the-red (talk) 19:15, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, no. Hoffmann is saying that India and China differed on where the McMahon Line was in this area. That is what is meant by being disputed. Do you want to take this to WP:DRN. It looks like we are going in circles. -- Kautilya3 (talk) 21:27, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Sources

• Hoffmann, Steven A. (1990), India and the China Crisis, University of California Press, ISBN 978-0-520-06537-6

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