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Hey Jimbo, about a week ago you decided to unblock {{User|The Showster}} based on ]. The Showster is attempting to get an autoblock template up, but can't seem to get it straight. While he's still working on that, I'd just like to ask if you would mind reviewing the situation to determine if an unblock on the IP address would be a good idea. As you may be aware, The Showster was blocked as part of ]. Based on the case history and {{User|Dmcdevit}}'s block on it the day of the closing of the checkuser request, I assume that {{IPvandal|209.244.43.209}} is the IP that The Showster will be requesting an unblock on whenever he figures out how to use the template. I'm just curious if you would mind taking a look at the checkuser history surrounding this case. Do you think that unblocking The Showster's IP will open up a huge can of worms? Or do you think it should be okay? Thanks, ] 06:09, 6 January 2007 (UTC) Hey Jimbo, about a week ago you decided to unblock {{User|The Showster}} based on ]. The Showster is attempting to get an autoblock template up, but can't seem to get it straight. While he's still working on that, I'd just like to ask if you would mind reviewing the situation to determine if an unblock on the IP address would be a good idea. As you may be aware, The Showster was blocked as part of ]. Based on the case history and {{User|Dmcdevit}}'s block on it the day of the closing of the checkuser request, I assume that {{IPvandal|209.244.43.209}} is the IP that The Showster will be requesting an unblock on whenever he figures out how to use the template. I'm just curious if you would mind taking a look at the checkuser history surrounding this case. Do you think that unblocking The Showster's IP will open up a huge can of worms? Or do you think it should be okay? Thanks, ] 06:09, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I think it is fine to unblock. He will be under no special protection from me. If the username or the ip misbehaves, we can treat it as a normal case. The only reason I unblocked is that someone indicated that they were being blocked as collateral damage in a sockpuppeting case. Do I believe it? Hmm, doesn't really matter. It costs little to give it a go and see what happens.--] 13:09, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


==Freedom and patents== ==Freedom and patents==

Revision as of 13:09, 6 January 2007



Archive
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Christmas Card

Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas!
Wishing you a happy and safe Christmas season, and a blessed new year. Enjoy where you are, and who your with. Merry Christmas! From, Defrag and Jilly.

Virgin Unite

Could you please explain why an advertisement for Virgin Unite is posted on every Wikimedia page? Does this not violate Misplaced Pages's principle against such posts?--Ed Reviews? 04:04, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Responses to the advertisement posted here:

--Ed Reviews? 04:12, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

What principle are you thinking of, Ed? Can you provide a link to that page? -- SCZenz 04:14, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, first of all, there is Misplaced Pages:WikiProject No ads (not really a principle). But there is Misplaced Pages:Spam--Ed Reviews? 04:20, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Then there's Jimbo's claim that he and Larry Sanger parted ways because Jimbo refused to put ads in Misplaced Pages to pay Sanger's salary. I would provide a link, but it would require a link to an IRC log. Those who were on the channel know what was said. Amicus Sparticus 08:08, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Nonetheless, it still does not answer my question about the Virgin Unite advertisement--Ed Reviews? 16:01, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Has the Board responded to these complaints yet?--Ed Reviews? 23:23, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
In my opinion, there's no issue at all here. A logo does not constitute an advertisement, nor does a sentence saying that the company will be matching donations. If they're making voluntary donations, not in exchange for the service of advertisement, then it's not advertisement in any form. If the use of the logo caused the issue, what about all the logos used in articles in Misplaced Pages? Do they constitute advertisements? Virgin Unite, a charitable arm of a TNC, was making a large donation to Misplaced Pages - does that not deserve recognition with a simple sentence (and no external link even, after their site went down) and a recognisable logo? If we weren't to do what we did with the fundraising notification, what else should we have used, do you suggest (in retrospect)? It's important to remeber that it would have been easy for anyone with an objection to the notification to just click the "close" button and be done with it. Martinp23 01:26, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Logos in articles are different - they are not sight wide banners and they identify the company. Since when does making a donation require a logo to be displayed. "We will pay you money if you display our logo" is an advertisement. The logo was unnecessary and has created a POV issue with the Virgin Unite article. It has lowered the reputation of the encyclopedia as a whole. As per above, I have stopped editing abd I am with holding edits until an apology is issued by someone involved with in wikipedia (see my user page).--HamedogTalk| 03:13, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Martinp23, are you inferring that all of the donators other than Virgin Unite do not deserve recognition for their generosity? As far as I'm concerned, Virgin Unite, like other contributors, sacrificed a considerable amount of money in order for this site to operate! Also, think about it this way: Would Virgin Unite's donation alone help to keep Wikimedia running? No. Their contributions, along with the other groups that donated, are used to help the Foundation.--Ed Reviews? 17:48, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
No, I'm not making such an inference. All donors have their donations noted on the fundraising reports, linked for the site notice. However, matching donations are omitted from this listing, and the next best place to note our thanks to Virgin Unite, and (by consenquence) encourage extra donations on the understanding that they would be doubled is the site notice. Seriously, a single logo and message of thanks does in no way constitute an advertisement. I'd agree that it was an ad if WMF had offered Virgin Unite advertising space (and the ability for VU to leave their own message there), but I'm sure we can agree that this isn't what happened, and it would have been the WMF who contacted VU requesting donations. We can't even say whether VU were told that their logo and (for a time) a link to their site would be shown before they offered to match donations, and until we have such information from those who make the decisions, and finger pointing and accusations of going against fundamental policies are premature. Probably the fact is that the community needs more information to help us to get a clearer understanding of the situation, though there will still be disagreement over what an advertisement is. Martinp23 20:41, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
The fact that the presence of the Virgin Unite logo encourages extra donations is somewhat troubling to me. This is because it helps the Wikimedia Foundation, which is a non-profit organization, to receive more money. The WMF just can't control the articles its volunteers edit! We don't have to continue to contribute to Misplaced Pages. No one should be forced or encouraged in any way to fund this organization. It is solely their option to do so--Ed Reviews? 01:36, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Jimbo, what is your comment on this???--Ed Reviews? 04:09, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Jimbo, having read your comment on Ed's talk page as well as receiving emails from CJ King and GChriss, please read my reason for with holding my edits on my user page. Thanks.--HamedogTalk| 06:39, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Did you ever review the comments on Political Cooperative article?

Just wondering why the latest sysops action was taken. - Darrow

Happy Holidays!

Hello from Russia. Vinograd19


Two-revert rule

I have the following proposal: Two-revert rule http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Two-revert_rule I think the large majority of the users would support this change. This would be a radical shift in mentality and will bring only good quality to various articles. In this way 3RR rule is redundant, we can get rid of it and no more reports on 3RR is needed. Would you favor such a drastic reform? Thank you, --HIZKIAH (User • Talk) 13:38, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I need to know your feedback please. Thank you. --HIZKIAH (User • Talk) 16:38, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


Jimbo, I think something has to be done. Otherwise competition will make a new encylopedia with more rules and order and Misplaced Pages will fall into vandalism. --HIZKIAH (User • Talk) 17:40, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Dear Mr. Wales (Akron Wiki)

Dear Master Jimbo Wales: We at the wiki "Cool People from Akron" would like to see to it that the Akron Wiki and Akroness habve their own articles on your wonderful site. I feel that some administrators are being unfair and that they are enforcing their belifes which prevents us from making your encyclopedia free. I feel that Akroness is a genuine slang term that has been used in many print sources in the Akron area, and I feel that our wiki is being discriminated against while other wikis can have their own pages. I feel you should intervene with these administrators, especally User:Nishkid64, to allow us to create our articles. Best regards,

CPFA

title

Happy New Year

Happy New Year to you, Jimbo! I didn't know that you had been in our country, Finland, until I saw that one picture on Commons. Anyway, just wanted to say thanks for the whole Misplaced Pages system and happy new year! --Roosa 00:09, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Question on Marc Lemire

I'll have to respectfully disagree in regards to your comments on Talk:Marc Lemire.

There are {{fact}} tags everywhere on Misplaced Pages, and can be with facts that could be construed as insulting depending on your point of view(since there are an infinite amount of povs, everybody is insulted by something).

It seems more like trying to hide something by just removing it because some povs consider it to be inflammatory. I think it would be better to put up a {{disputed}} tag and let people know that this view is an outside and possibly untrue view. If the consensus thinks it best to remove the portion, then it should be removed. If it isn't presented as fact, it cannot be libel, and if it isn't libelous, it isn't scholarly to hide information.Just H 02:36, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I think we should hold ourselves to a much higher standard of quality than that. Just because the man is a far right-winger, that is no excuse for linking to random web forum posts (at stormfront, no less!) as if it proves anything about him. We need SOLID SOURCING for ALL statements about living persons. The problematic statements WERE presented as fact, but even if they were not, it would still be problematic from a moral point of view... it is possible to libel someone through "false light", you know...--Jimbo Wales 02:45, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

That's the beauty though. Just because it was presented as fact before doesn't mean it is cast in stone. This is a wiki after all! It's best to tone down the words, show that the sources of information are likely to be faulty, but until there's something better, to keep it there and be transparent about that. If the information is incredibly poor, it eventually will be replaced rather quickly, and if it's false, it will be removed per WP:V.Just H 02:48, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
We can all collaborate on that article to make it safe both for Misplaced Pages, for the subject, and for those who wish to understand the topic. At least, that's what I believe. I'm one person, and one person does not make consensus. Until there is a consensus there, i'll leave it be. If we don't act by consensus only in difficult situations, I guarantee that this website will eventually fall apart.Just H 02:51, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
I am sorry but you are just mistaken here. When we are talking about a biography of a living person, it is mandatory that poorly sourced negative material be removed IMMEDIATELY. We have an ethical obligation here to get things absolutely right. Please understand that whoever put the information there, whoever puts information anywhere in wikipedia, had better be prepared to stand behind it personally, because we are all individually responsible for our own actions here... not just legally, but morally. Simply tagging some horrible crap with a fact tag is absolutely unacceptable when a real person might be hurt by it... and this remains true no matter how unsympathetic the person might be.--Jimbo Wales 02:53, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Then we'll have to agree to disagree then. I'm not saying what I said because the subject is unpopular. I'd say the same thing for any topic, irregardless of how it may be viewed by some.
I am somewhat disappointed however that you as the co-founder of Misplaced Pages are so reactionary in how you percieve information, in what I thought was a place where all information was presented for the good of everyone's understanding.
I'm also disappointed that you think so subjectively rather than objectively. If I think something is "crap", does that mean it is "crap" to you? What do you consider to be "crap"? What does the general public to be consider to be "crap"? In the end, it's just a slippery slope towards censorship unless all subjectivity is removed and is replaced with objectivity.Just H 03:06, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
I am sorry, but if you think attention to quality is the same thing as censorship, or that I am "reactionary" you need to find a different hobby.--Jimbo Wales 04:15, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Why would I need to find a different hobby? I thought we could have an intelligent and respectful debate here(particularly over what you consider "quality", since I'd beg to differ with the vast majority of the articles on Misplaced Pages in comparison to what you'd find on Britannica, but I guess not. I wish you a happy new year, despite our disagreements(I assume there are more), and my apologies if I offended you, which was not my intention. Just H 05:18, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I have to say I'm absolutely blown away by this decision to sub an entire article. The only thing I agree with is the removal of information where Stormfront is a source. Since it only deals with Marc Lemire's birthday it's can't be too difficult to find a better source. However, I fundamentally disagree with you statement that sources found on the Nizkor Project website is not acceptable. Most of the information from the Nizkor Project clearly show the provenance; government documents, newspaper articles, magazine articles, and primary sources (email correspondences). Even excluding the Nizkor Project, the majority of sources provided WERE government documents (Canadian Human Rights Tribunal) or from other legitimate sources such as B'nai Brith and other similar sites. Warren Kinsella's book, Web of Hate is well-known to accademics and law-enforcement agencies documenting the far right in Canada from the early 1980s (actually, before then as well) to the mid 1990s. AnnieHall 03:17, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

One additional thing. Although I agree that Stormfront is not a legitimate source of information, Marc Lemire did indeed post a meassage in the thread in question. AnnieHall 03:26, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Do you have any kind of proof that it was actually him? No. That's why we don't do original research here. We must have reliable sources. In this case, it should be easy enough to find reliable sources, and if there are none, then this guy is clearly not notable enough to have a wikipedia biography in the first place. (As it turns out, I think there are some.) --Jimbo Wales 03:58, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
In this particular case I do have proof but I really do agree that any reference using Stormfront still isn't appropriate. Be that as it may, I have a copy of Mr. Kinsella's book at home. I'll add some direct quotes once I return home from the holidays. I do understand why you would be concerned with some Nizkor sources given your explanation, however I think that those used in the Lemire article are appropriate. Perhaps it would be possible to re-examine the Nizkor sources to determine which ones could be used and which ones should not be? AnnieHall 04:50, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Guys, read the article... It reads like crap and isn't, in my opinion, suitable for an encyclopedia in it's current state. I really have no idea who Marc Lemire is, but I can tell you I didn't find out by reading this article. An encyclopedic biography from the world leading encyclopedia should contain more than a slur campaign as the basis for an article? Please use a little wiki-love and write an article fitting for Misplaced Pages, the authoritative source for information content, not information generation. Have a great day!!! 209.244.16.221 18:27, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

"It's your ball, and you can go home if you want."

To paraphrase the old saying though, it's your website, and you can go home with it if you want to. Just H 02:57, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Lemire

No problem. I did manage to find one article that mentions him, but then I realized that it said, "primary source for most of this info is Misplaced Pages". So...I guess I'll keep looking. Khoikhoi 03:03, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok, sorry about that. Was it uploaded after he was banned? Anyways, I hope the sources that I've added so far are reliable enough. I'll try to find some more. Khoikhoi 04:03, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Sure, I'll try. :-) BTW, are Lauder and Kinsella reliable soruces? Khoikhoi 04:32, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
I don't really know. They are published books, and if someone has a copy that would help enormously. Lemire has objected that apparently one or both of them has been discredited or strongly critiqued. We should at least investigate whether these are respectable books or not.--Jimbo Wales 15:58, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
I posted this in the talk page but thought I should post it here as well. Here are some reviews of the book and some information on Mr. Kinsella: A wake-up call against hate, Warren Kinsella, Shedding Light on the Prince of Darkness, National Post: Warren Kinsella, 1997 Audit of Antisemitic Incidents (note that B'nai Brith uses Web of Hate as a source). I would say that Kinsella is as reliable a source as anyone in Canada on the far right in Canada. AnnieHall 06:44, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

HAPPY NEW YEAR

May you and your beard accomplish. ★MESSEDROCKER★ 05:10, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Your article

I read the nom for featured status of Jimmy Wales and you commented that some of the information such as your birthdate comes from unreliable sources and is false, but it hasn't been removed as far as I know. If you point out the falsehoods, I will remove them if you want.--Azer Red Si? 05:14, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

New users

Hi Jimmy, this wiki thing was a great idea! Anyways, in my opinion it is very hard for Misplaced Pages's content to comply with NVOP if there is no growth. Growth in numbers of contributors diversifies the gene pool so to speak, preventing "in-breading". As it is right now an estimated 5000 new users are registering per day. Here are seven points to consider.

  1. Did the user contribute at all
  2. Did the user continue contributing after a week.
  3. Did the user receive any warnings for abuse of the system.
  4. Did the user become blocked.
  5. Did the user create a user page.
  6. Did the user express an interest in the adopt-a-user program.
  7. Did the user join a wikiproject.

I have been analysing these points through Category:WelcomeBotResearch and find the results dismal. I don't have a complete report though we hope to have one soon. I would very much appreciate your comments, perhaps you have a full report already. Please glimpse at the talk to see Haggerman's proposal. Thanks and Happy new year!

frummer 07:09, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Please Help!

Hi there Jimmy, I need some help because I was recently contacted by E-mail by a user who has been blocked from Misplaced Pages for being a Sockpuppet, now I think the policy on Misplaced Pages is that Sock-puppets are allowed to have multiple accounts as long as they are not to cause trouble - and this user has not been vandalising Misplaced Pages; and he says that a certain Administrator (I'd like to keep him anonymous as I am not taking sides with anybody) is picking on him and another user who he knows and reverting there edits all the time, even though they are not vandalism, now I checked through some of the contributions of one of the users who contacted me and I cant see any reversions by the user names he gave me (who he suspected of misconduct) but I'll ask him for direct links of these unfair reversions, but none of his contributions appear to be Vandalism, just attempts to improve Misplaced Pages, this user also claims that this Administrator is shielding a group of Sockpuppets or bad users althnough oce again I'm not taking sides and I have no idea as to whether this is true or not. And he says he can provide links of this possible misconduct and he has already provided some and I said that he should contact you as a last resort and left him a link to your talk Page. So really all I need is some adivce on how to help him and he says that one of the users who he believes the admin is protecting has a history of leading a sockpuppet group (once again i don't know whether this is true or not). If you need any further Information such as usernames or other Info please fell free to leave a message on my talk page. Thanks and I hope you enjoyed your New Year and enjoy the rest of 2007!

Respectfully..... Tellyaddict 14:01, 1 January 2007 (UTC)


Lemire article

Unfortunately I don't know where Misplaced Pages-acceptable neutral sources can be found about this character. However, I'll keep an eye on the article so it doesn't get too whitewashed and gloss over his racist politics. Anyone who goes on his website can see that the only freedom of speech he cares about is freedom of speech for racists and anti-semites. Maybe the current short article is all he really deserves, because he's not an important political figure.Spylab 17:16, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Is it "his website" or a website he hosts? I honestly haven't tried to find out, I am just trying to be as critical and thoughtful as I can be on all sides of the question. Everyone agrees that the article should not be a whitewash... and I think there is clearly no danger of that. But I do think that there is a danger of an article which is biased against him by assuming he holds views which he has not publicly stated or defended in any way.

Let me be specific. It's fine rhetoric to say "Anyone who goes on his website can see that the only freedom of speech he cares about is freedom of speech for racists and anti-semites." If that's true, can you give me a quote from his website, written by him, which supports it?--Jimbo Wales 17:40, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

(I am moving some possibly helpful information to the talk page of the article. It was added here by an anon, and I am not sure yet what to make of it (have to read it and check some of the claims that the anon made).--Jimbo Wales 22:40, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

  • I believe he runs and hosts the site, although my uncertainty is why I can't be very helpful in adding information to the article. I agree that there should only be facts that are documented by reliable sources, but I can't be bothered to search them out. As I said before, he's really not a very important person. It's not so much that specific quotes show the site is only about protection of racist speech; it's the fact that the only links on his site — and the only freedom of speech issues discussed — are about white power, anti-semitism, Holocaust denial, and related issues. He's not fighting for freedom when it comes to other issues, such as sex-related topics or leftists being monitored by the authorities. Spylab 17:32, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Copyright issue

The YouTube/Copyright issue that's blown up has gained the wiki some bad press in Boingboing , and still doesn't seem to be going away.

There's a minority of editors and admin who are being very vocal and active both about promoting their opinion that all external links should have a "Fully verified copyright licence" (Whatever that means), as well as acting on that and running projects to use AWB to find and delete the 'bad links'. Current Policy says not to "Knowingly and Intentionally" link to copyvio, and it's my opinion that a change to policy to add extra verification of copyright beyond this would be a large burden to editors.

I've tried to talk them down by asking them to discuss this over at the WP:EL talk page, but proponents now change the guideline without discussion to reflect their opinion. This is getting out of hand and snowballing into a big issue, with talk of taking it to Arbitration or bringing it up before the Wikimedia Foundation.

Is there any chance that you'd like to nip this in the bud? --Barberio 18:22, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

A note, I see that the BoingBoing link is a month old. If you could provide newer links that support your assertion that this is spiraling out of control, it might help anyone new to the issue. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 19:07, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
See Misplaced Pages talk:External links/YouTube and note the need for a special notice on YouTube as well as various attempts to edit the guideline without consensus discussion, Diff of a talk post calling for Brad to look into it, Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for comment/Sir Nicholas de Mimsy-Porpington a hopelessly muddled RfC where the "urgent need to delete potentially copyright violating you tube links" is used as defence of an editwar ending in protection of an article. --Barberio 19:55, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Frohes Neues Jahr!

Hallo Jimmy!

Ich wünsche dir ein „Frohes Neues Jahr“.

Grüße aus Deutschland; --Athalis 19:36, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

"Powerful enough to demand" a "free" photo?

This is with reference to your statements at Misplaced Pages talk:Elimination of Fair Use Rationale in Promotional Photos/Vote#My own view and Misplaced Pages talk:Publicity photos#This page is dangerous implying that Misplaced Pages is now powerful enough to get freely licenced images of celebrities (and other promotional images).

It might be possible to get images licenced for free use/copying/distribution. But I wonder if a sizeable number of celebrities/photographers would allow for free modification of their photos, realising all the consequences. User:Nil Einne has a nice description of things allowed by "free modification" that people might not imagine when we ask them for a freely licenced image (added in this edit).

I have also noticed that at times people forget about the "free modification" clause of copyleft licences when talking about free licences (e.g. once I found that many licences allowing unrestricted use/copying but not explicitly mentioning modifications were tagged as free licences at Misplaced Pages:Image copyright tags -- discussion here). Due to this, we might get some celebrities/photographers to give us a "free" image, without their understanding that we allow unrestricted creation of derivative works.

Due to this, if someone takes such a photo from Misplaced Pages and creates an image that is not to the celebrity/photographer's liking, they might sue us saying we misinformed them about the "free licence" we are asking for, and consequences of derivative works.

Hence we have to make sure the celebrity/photographer understand that we would allow creation of derivative works not to their liking, in which case, I guess we would mostly be refused a freely licenced photograph. -- Paddu 21:02, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Obviously we should not list licenses that does not allow modifications to the content as free licenses. If you have any particular ones in mind you should bring that up over at Misplaced Pages talk:Image copyright tags (or just remove obvious cases). I know the BSD, GNU, CC, MIT, FAL licenses listed are ok. I did remove a couple of the NZ government tags listed there though, and some in the "general purpose" category could probably wanrrant some closer examination, so you are correct, we need to be carefull in what we clasify as "free content", allowing modification is one of the "must haves" to qualify. --Sherool (talk) 21:47, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
Jimbo, can you or the Board of Trustees launch a public request for free images, maybe aimed at notable personalities directly? I believe such request would be much more powerful than any we can individually do, and would really help us to have the Foundation in our backs when requesting images from personalities. -- ReyBrujo 15:19, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I am happy to help with this. What I would recommend is that we first prepare a letter for me to send, a letter to the major publicists for Hollywood stars, perhaps, as a start. I can email this letter to them and also release it as a press release. I recommend that we recommend to them to use CC BY-SA, since that's a license people can better understand than the GNU FDL.--Jimbo Wales 01:39, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Possible future request for a block

I am not a Misplaced Pages admin. The anonymous user, 68.37.91.154 vandalized Appalachian Mountains. That was his/her only contribution so far. I put a warning on his/her talk page. I will be watching his/her contributions and the history for Appalachian Mountains. If the user vandalizes Appalachian Mountains more times, I will put put warnings on his/her talk page and after a few warnings, I will request a block. If he/she vandalizes another article, I will put warnings on his/her talk page. Kamope 21:18, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Greetings

May I call you Jimmy? *winks* lol -- Hope you had a swell holiday! Wolfie001 21:32, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

happy

new hear. Blueaster 01:25, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Larry Sanger "co-founder" questions

Jimbo, you've been objecting to calling Larry Sanger a "co-founder" of Misplaced Pages, on IRC and elsewhere. I have read your arguments, that Larry was an employee of yours when Misplaced Pages was founded, and that you were committed to anonymous editing by anyone while he was not, leading to several arguments. I had been convinced; in fact just a short time ago I removed a reference to "co-founder" from Sanger's article. But then thinking about it and digging deeper I came across and was surprised to read:

  • Sanger proposed using a wiki to simplify Nupedia's arduous review process shortly after a January 2, 2001 dinner with Ben Kovitz where Ben described Cunningham's wiki software, and your agreement to this proposal was the beginning of Misplaced Pages.
  • Sanger coined the name "Misplaced Pages"

Are those recollections accurate? If either is, I think you should not object to anyone calling Sanger a "co-founder." The American Heritage Dictionary defines the verb "found" as, "to establish or set up." Creating the proposal leading to a thing's existence certainly qualifies as helping to establish it, and naming a web site is an important part of setting it up, I am sure everyone would agree.

You might also want to consider why this means so much more to you than anyone else, such that you have had to ask others to remove the "co-founder" label in several locations, and whether you want to be known as someone who has such strong feelings about labels which at best are only borderline-inaccurate, concerning an issue in which you are personally involved. I offer these questions and comments only as a passing acquaintance and admirer concerned for your image, and I hope you will take them that way. 75.35.77.22 02:28, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Please stop raising this issue. You will only get the same response. And I highly suggest that you stop editing your comments once they are published. Thanks and have a good day!--CJ King 02:39, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I've never raised this issue before. Until a few weeks ago, I didn't even know it was an issue. As for editing comments, this is a wiki, and if I make a typo I ought to correct it. 75.35.77.22 02:49, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
My only issue here is that Misplaced Pages ought to remain neutral on the subject. --Jimbo Wales 03:10, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Nobody asked about your issues. The question warrants a simple yes or no response. Do you have a different recollection than that offered by your fellow founder of this project? Where's your openness and wikilove when push comes to shove? Apparently your respect for truth and neutrality stops when you surf out of the namespace you created into the public media, where your mission seems to be to skew truth toward your own liking. Your public commitment to transparency apparently ends when you enter an IRC channel to plot how to foist your version of Wikimedia history on the public through the media. I and many others would kindly appreciate if you would expedite your retirement from the board of directors, and take your Bomis buddies with you. Thank you for your contribution, but as you said, it wasn't you who figured this out, it was all of those volunteers. Aside from fostering the environment of hatred, abuse and self-service that now dominates this site, your primary contribution here has been cash and in-kind services, but not encyclopedic content nor effective leadership. Your services are no longer required. Truth up 04:54, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
One reason conflict of interest is an issue in creating an unbiased encyclopedia is that everyone has biases and those biases include believing things that make oneself look better in one's own eyes. Everyone misremembers things in ways that promote their own psychcological health and as Wales and Sanger are both human, we can assume each will remember and believe and hold to be important things that accord with their own psychcological health. As writers of Misplaced Pages it is our job to make the articles reflect the best reliable published sources we have. I know Jimmy Wales agrees with this, even if it is really really galling to him that he knows some things in Misplaced Pages are wrong based on his own memory. Now where's that book on memory; I know I left it right there ... WAS 4.250 05:17, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Seems to me this is Jimbo's user page, and common courtesy dictates that he gets the same right as everyone else to be final arbiter of how he is presented on this page, particularly in any controversy. By their very nature, user pages have come to present us from our own POV, and I do not see that Jimbo needs to be an exception.
If, however, this were a bio article, he would have to be presented in accord with valid and verifiable evidence from all sides and a neutral POV, which might (and in the past, where there have been both userpage and bio articles for the same person, often has) present a different picture.
There is an oriental saying: "Each man is three things, as he sees himself (userpage), as others see him (bio article), and as he really is (reality)". --Zeraeph 11:21, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
The claim that users are allowed a right to arbitrate how others see them on their user page is false. Users are routinely preventing from editing a user page and a user talk page assigned to their user name whenever any one of 1,000 secret administrators gets the whim. Then, users are represented as criminals ("vandals"), subhumans ("trolls") and con-artists ("sockpuppets") sometimes in perpetuity with no opportunity for a user to rebut the attacks of anonymous agents of Wikimedia Foundation. It is funny how these idealistic policies get trotted out when needed to defend the faithful but trampled under foot when someone decides it is convenient to dehumanize a contributor contrary to the stated policies used to attract naive new contributors. Truth up 05:07, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
Zeraeph, you misunderstand the issue. It about wikipedia articles. WAS 4.250 11:56, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
I doubt if I do, because this is the talk for Jimbo's user page, where the "co-founder" question is becoming, at least, a long running "revert scuffle".
What appears in any Misplaced Pages article related to Jimbo, Misplaced Pages, or Larry Sanger should surely be neutral and presented in accord with whatever valid and verifiable sources that can be cited for it.
What appears anywhere else is very unlikely to be under our control in our role as editors of Misplaced Pages and thus is not worth discussing. To question Jimbo about this issue here is, strictly, bringing off Wiki issues onto Misplaced Pages and no more in accord with protocol than if somebody chose to bring personal off-Wiki issues to my user page or yours. --Zeraeph 12:09, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

This issue existed since 1 or 2 years ago when Jimbo edited his article and there was a news story. It's now only brought up because of a certain website posting chat logs. Anomo 12:13, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

The issue is the content of wikipedia articles: , , . WAS 4.250 13:23, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Which should be discussed in those locations. As far as I can see the only issue that needs discussing here is this . --Zeraeph 13:50, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Since Wales is a user who has edited those articles about himself, it is appropriate to approach him about the matter here. "Wrong forum" is a standard dodge used in this club to misdirect anyone who offers criticism that somehow upbraids the wikifaithful. Since Wales promotes an "eventualist" philosophy of publication, since there is ongoing public discourse about the matter and since Wales broached the issue in a secret venue used primarily to conduct foundation-related business, it is as urgent that the discussion continue here as it is a pretty red stop sign with a hand be placed on a page when a user contributes something an admin doesn't like. Truth up 05:14, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Something to cheer you up

Just wanted to say thanks for all you've done so far. Keep up the good work. --RedPooka 03:36, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Australian indy wrestling articles

Jimbo, I hate bringing you into this - but I feel like I have no choice. An article was deleted on the back of an AfD by a sockpuppet of JB196 in spite of an update by me which in my view brought it into line with WP:BIO and WP:N as best as possible. This was questioned by a couple of people supporting the deletion and I asked for specifics, but the article was deleted before I could get an answer. This took place only 24 hours after the second query.

I then went to deletion review, but I was rebuked again and still they demand conformity with WP:BIO and WP:N - and they wouldn't provide me with specifics as to why it failed. I firmly believe in the article, Chuck E. Chaos and if neccessary I'll claim it under WP:IAR because without it, the whole database of the Australian independent pro wrestling scene in under threat of going the same way. If I can't get this article back - Misplaced Pages may as well delete the whole thing. That's how important the article is.

I'm upset over this. Very upset - and angry because I feel like I'm being ignored. The admin who deleted the article, Quarl suggested I add an edit to the history part of Professional wrestling in Australia, which I have done. But I would be much happier with the article restored. I don't know what you can do to help, Jim - but whatever you can do would be appreciated. Frankly, I feel like the database is being high jacked by American wrestling fans who are applying American standards to Australian wrestling - hence my application of WP:IAR. CURSE OF FENRIC 12:07, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

IRC

Was that really you on IRC or was it a imposter? Get back to me on my talk page please. Also have a happy new year!!!! God bless. --Sir James Paul 20:27, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Sir James Paul has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Smile to others by adding {{subst:smile}}, {{subst:smile2}} or {{subst:smile3}} to their talk page with a friendly message. Happy editing!

The Original Barnstar
This is for creating wikipedia and making the internet not suck. Sir James Paul 21:02, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


Patelco has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:smile}}, {{subst:smile2}} or {{subst:smile3}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

:-)

¿Why1991



Happy editing!!!--¿Why1991 02:27, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Re: Your comment on User talk: 82.148.97.69

You may email me and ask me for my personal cellphone number, which I will answer 24 hours a day to confirm or disconfirm any such story of this type. --Jimbo Wales 03:32, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

... You do sleep, right? Just checking... :-) theProject 05:20, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

) Well, if the press is going to report something as absurdly false as "Misplaced Pages bans Qatar" I think it is ethically incumbent on them to at least ask first if it is true. And ethically incumbent on me to drag myself out of bed to tell them that they must be smoking crack if they believe a story like that.--Jimbo Wales 15:13, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

82.148.97.69 has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:smile}}, {{subst:smile2}} or {{subst:smile3}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

We love you jimbo - just don't ban us again ;) 82.148.97.69 16:39, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I support advertising on wikipedia

Greeting I just wanted to say that I fully support advertising on wikipedia. I see there is a lot of people objecting to the ads, but I fully support them as long as proceedings go to the nonprofit foundation or are used to purchase copyrighted content. Thank you very much for your time, I appreciated you on NPR Mineralè 17:10, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

You replied to my talk page saying that you oppose ads on wikipedia. I believe the foundation could do more than just the wiki. What about purchasing rights to media that we need? What about sourcing funds for printed copies of select articles? The Mozilla foundation is doing very well with the money they are receiving from google advertisements (on the default opening page). The no ads policy is a quixotic ideal, please consider ads, see the recent slashdot article. Mineralè 22:43, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Anderson Cooper

Hi, I remember your edits regarding WP:BLP and Ron Jeremy and thought I'd just ask you a quick question about the inclusion of speculation on the sexuality of Anderson Cooper on that article. The section, in summary (to me anyway) reads as 'Someone in X magazine speculated about Anderson Coopers sexuality and he replied to another journalist 'I don't comment on my personal life'.' Could you take a look as I am seeing it is nothing more than speculation and gossip that is poorly sourced. Thanks, Localzuk 19:42, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Notice of political controversy re AFD

Hi. Didn't meant to "come here first" but I'm unsure which dept. of Wiki's many processes and procedures to address some of my mounting concerns about the disposition of a certain article and its associated AFD case. It involves a BLP but also POV/censorship and other core Wiki principles as well as questionable behaviour by SPAs contributing to the article, and now the AFD. The overall context is a mounting and very major political scandal here in Canada, of which you will get partial idea by following the external link within my post to the AFD at ]. I am sorry to write at such length - I'm either loquacious or a windbag depending on who you talk to ;-) but I can't help but be lengthy in writing or speech - it's in my nature - especially about important matters which may reflect on Misplaced Pages's integrity and the wisdom of its decision-making processes, especially when real-world political manipulation intrudes into Misplaced Pages's edit histories and talk pages, as has happened here. The upshot of the whole affair is that control of information in Misplaced Pages is becoming part of a political cover-up here in Canada . It is disturbing to me that, while AFDs are not "votes", input on the fate of an article and its attached debates relating to major public affairs can be commented upon, and their fate decided, by people unfamiliar with or indifferent to Canadian/British Columbian public affairs. I'm not asking you to comment on the AFD, only to apprise yourself of its contents and to be prepared should the manipulation of Misplaced Pages and its processes by the protagonist's supporters surfaces in the media and becomes part of the scandal. Yours, with respect and appreciation for creating the wonder that is Misplaced Pages....Skookum1 22:01, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

PS the protagonists/antagonists re this article and its talk page have repeatedly made insinuations of libellous and slanderous comment, meant to intimidate both Misplaced Pages and its contributors, in the course of their vandalism, by way of justification for same. The realpolitik of the situation is that, should such a lawsuit be filed, it would be front-page headlines and have the counter-effect of propelling Mr. Bornmann into the public eye, from which is so eager to remove himself. I didn't cite their various threats and insinuations in my AFD statement, but they're there to read in the edit history of the talkpage and the article, and also with similar at BC Legislature Raids by other parties, which was also systematically vandalized and "patrolled" by the same agenda.Skookum1 22:43, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to drop more of this in your lap, but the tide has turned on the AFD, thanks to other editors from BC who've weighed in, but I thought I should also bring this to your attention, which is a sockpuppet charge against "the leader of the pack" of SPAs who've also said some very nasty things about me during the course of the AFD. No big deal, I'm starting to feel things might work out, but I did think it best to apprise you of the potential political fracas implicit in all connected proceedings to do with this case. Now, back to my mountain ranges and history articles.......Skookum1 10:17, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi

So my efforts on the article have all been reversed, and pretty much misunderstood. I'm a little sad, but I cheer myself with some other work I'm doing. It's an uphill road, so I'm writing you in order to lighten it for a minute.

Today is the traditional Mahayana Buddhist new year. In fact, I just found this out today - which is funny because I am one. We had a wonderful time, however, January 1. In any event, I'm using it as an excuse to give you my very first "card". I've found all the buttons at the top of the edit page very helpful!

Sincerely,

Nina PS: I don't know why the image is gone. Perhaps it's something to do with your page. Anyhow, it was a free image I found at Commons. It's called "Lights of the World", and is a poster of all the lights around the world that can be seen from space. I saved it to my desktop, to remind me of all the Wikipedians out there. Do find it if you've never seen it. Nina Odell 11:44, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

It's back! Yay! Nina Odell 15:43, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Your biograghy

Hello Jimbo Wales, have you ever thought of expanding the Misplaced Pages article based on yourself, I was just having a little look at it, and it says that it needs expanding and improving, and as you will know more about yourself than other people, you could help.--Rasillon 14:12, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Ps: The Wiki project is the most excellent thing I have ever seen on the internet. You are a genius to come up with this.

Hi Rasillon. As a rule, we try not edit things that are much too close to us. Misplaced Pages was once littered with examples of how this can go very wrong. I, for example, should not edit an article too much about my Grandfather's school. It's an excellent idea in terms of saving time, however! :)Nina Odell 15:27, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Marc Lemire

Hi Jimbo.

Since a federal court judge in Canada has affirmed that Marc Lemire is leader of the Heritage Front can we list him in the neo-nazi and white nationalist categories? Justice Blais mentions Lemire several times in his ruling on Ernst Zundel as evidence that Zundel associated with neo-nazis and was thus a national security threat who, as a non-citizen could be detained under a National Security Certificate and deported. In paragraph 39 of his decision, for instance, Blais wrote "If, as Mr. Zündel said, the Heritage Front, a group described as the most powerful racist gang to hit Canada since the real Nazis back in the Dirty Thirties, was not a good idea, then why would he hire the president of that organization, Mr. Lemire, as a part-time and then full-time employee in his own personal residence?". Dimitroff 22:28, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

Winston Olde English Bulldogge

Hello,

I made a post at both the Vandalism page and the Investigation page and both were reverted by an editor named yandman so I am going to post my request here in the hope that it can be resolved fairly.

The article Winston Olde English Bulldogge was at wikipedia yesterday because I worked on it and now it is deleted without a vote. This is a breed a dog and should be in Misplaced Pages. I have been advised that JzG has decided on his own that the article is not warranted and it was deleted. He recently tried to have the Olde English Bulldogge deleted with a vote and it is not succeeding, so now he is simply deleting dog breed articles he does not like. I would like the article brought back and a vote taken. I believe that this dog breed exists and it should be in Misplaced Pages. Thank you Headphonos 10:46, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

To discuss the deletion of a page that you feel wa unwarranted, Misplaced Pages has Deletion Review. To list it at Vandalism and Request for Investigation or applying directly to Jimbo Wales is premature and not the best way to resolve this. Fram 11:03, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Try talking to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Dog breeds and see what they say there. Nina Odell 13:30, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip, I have made a post here: Post Headphonos 19:14, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
A search of "Winston Olde English Bulldogge"(which took .05 seconds) yielded 492 hits, along with a placeholder for this article in the Misplaced Pages article Old English Bulldog. Headphonos, I'm sorry. It doesn't look like your dog is notable - pfft - of course it is. Please consider sticking around Misplaced Pages. Nina Odell 21:57, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Why?

Just... Why? 58.178.64.147 12:47, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Because. Dar-Ape 03:39, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Great Place!

Hi, I'm just here to say that Misplaced Pages is the greatest thing on the Internet that i've ever found. It's a nice place to meet people, but it's also a great thing for when i'm in school writing those long essays. I'm really just saying: Thanks Jimbo Wales! Misplaced Pages is GREAT! Have a nice day, RyGuy Happy New Year!


I second that! | AndonicO 16:02, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Of course, I have to third that. Template:Emot Yuser31415 23:28, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Proposal from Novartis to collaborate with Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Molecular and Cellular Biology

Hi there One of the group leaders at the Genomics Institute of the Novartis Research Foundation has contacted our Wikiproject and is proposing a large-scale collaboration with Misplaced Pages. The talk page is Here. You might have a lot to add to this discussion so we would appreciate your input. TimVickers 18:36, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikisaria

I removed a badly-written, all-lowercase, unsourced section from your biography that had been there for at least a week here. It made me wonder: (1) Why didn't any of the hundreds of Wikipedians remove it and (2) You should really scan your article every few days, if you don't already. -- Chris is me 19:58, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, Jimbo shouldn't edit his own page (he's gotten in trouble for that before ;-). Also, that section is correct, and though it wasn't the best section, it wasn't all that awful (except that "Google-killer" part). Prodego 03:45, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Hello!

I am making a website and I want YOU to be one of the admins! This website is not open yet but ill tell you when it does! Fattdoggy 20:46, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

The Showster

Hey Jimbo, about a week ago you decided to unblock The Showster (talk · contribs) based on this thread. The Showster is attempting to get an autoblock template up, but can't seem to get it straight. While he's still working on that, I'd just like to ask if you would mind reviewing the situation to determine if an unblock on the IP address would be a good idea. As you may be aware, The Showster was blocked as part of Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/Bowser Koopa. Based on the case history and Dmcdevit (talk · contribs)'s block on it the day of the closing of the checkuser request, I assume that 209.244.43.209 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) is the IP that The Showster will be requesting an unblock on whenever he figures out how to use the template. I'm just curious if you would mind taking a look at the checkuser history surrounding this case. Do you think that unblocking The Showster's IP will open up a huge can of worms? Or do you think it should be okay? Thanks, Metros232 06:09, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I think it is fine to unblock. He will be under no special protection from me. If the username or the ip misbehaves, we can treat it as a normal case. The only reason I unblocked is that someone indicated that they were being blocked as collateral damage in a sockpuppeting case. Do I believe it? Hmm, doesn't really matter. It costs little to give it a go and see what happens.--Jimbo Wales 13:09, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Freedom and patents

I didn't think Richard Stallman's concerns about patents subverting copyleft licenses applied to Misplaced Pages until I read this. WAS 4.250 09:40, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't get it. It's just something about artificial intelligence. Anomo 10:55, 6 January 2007 (UTC)