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Revision as of 09:07, 10 January 2007 editLysy (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers21,125 edits Prague groschen← Previous edit Revision as of 19:26, 10 January 2007 edit undoPiotrus (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Event coordinators, Extended confirmed users, File movers, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers286,198 edits →Prague groschenNext edit →
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Thanks Evv. "Prague groschen" it is, then. --]<sup>]</sup> 09:07, 10 January 2007 (UTC) Thanks Evv. "Prague groschen" it is, then. --]<sup>]</sup> 09:07, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
:Indeed, this seems like the acceptable compromise (English locality name, local coin name, per our policies).--<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">]|]</span></sub> 19:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Revision as of 19:26, 10 January 2007

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On the title

Prague grosh or Prager Groschen, what is the common English name for the coin from Prague? Or the one issued in Cracow? Or in general, Grosh, groat, or Groschen? Let's ask Google, but mainly let's search the American Numismatic Society's curatorial database of coins:

  • Record contains: grosh No records in the ANS database match your search
  • Record contains: grosssi Search returned 5 records
  • Record contains: grossus Search returned 13 records
  • Record contains: grosch Search returned 15 records (added later, not singular of Groschen)
  • Record contains: grossi Search returned 44 records
  • Record contains: grosz Search returned 81 records
  • Record contains: groat Search returned 330 records
  • Record contains: groschen Search returned 2908 records


  • Record contains: prag Search returned 7 records
  • Record contains: pragenses Search returned 29 records
  • Record contains: prager Search returned 30 records.
  • Record contains: prague Search returned 485 records
  • Record contains: prague Record contains: grosch No records in the ANS database match your search (added later)
  • Record contains: prague Record contains: groschen Search returned 15 records
  • Record contains: grossi Record contains: pragenses Search returned 24 records
  • Record contains: prager Record contains: groschen Search returned 29 records


  • Record contains: kraków No records in the ANS database match your search.
  • Record contains: krakow Search returned 9 records.
  • Record contains: cracow Search returned 12 records
  • Record contains: krakau Search returned 61 records
  • Record contains: krakau Record contains: groschen Search returned 61 records

Sorry, but grosh is obviously a "original research" translation from slavic grosz, on the internet only due to the Misplaced Pages articles created by a few authors from, or due to ebay offers.


I'll change all articles. -- Matthead      O       10:44, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

You're mixing Polish singular "grosz" with German plural "Groschen". If you want to compare it should be "grosz" against "Grosch" and Google gets you 2 million vs 1 million. What is English for grosz/Grosch ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lysy (talk • contribs) 12:54, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Lysy, there are links given above that clearly show that Groschen is used for the actual coins, by American Numismatic Society and others, in English. Let's once again (Talk:Mikołaj of Ryńsk) assume good faith and apply Hanlon's razor for this unspecified Google search, comparing the Polish POV with a hypothetical "Grosch" that is neither a German nor an English name for a coin.-- Matthead      O       22:07, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Agree with Lysy. And remember WP:UE: grosh is better then grosch(en) or grosz. And Krakau groschen seems to be unused even on German websites - complete OR.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  15:05, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Piotrus, see above, there is no "grosh" in English nor Grosch in German that would apply to the coin, these words are only visible from your own Polish POV that has introduced it to Misplaced Pages, as the article history proves. That kind of "translation" may have been okay for a stub to start with, but now you better accept the facts, no original research WP:NOR. Besides, in German, its Krakauer Groschen, but as shown above, American Numismatic Society calls it Krakau Groschen. -- Matthead      O       22:07, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Only one German site used Krakau Groschen; it is you who is trying to force an OR Germanized name in English Misplaced Pages; please stop.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  15:57, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

On Grosch/en
Incorrect assumption (singular Grosch, plural Groschen)

Groschen is singular as well as plural

  • 1 Groschen or 10 Groschen-
  • Grosch is a made up thing.

The correct name of the coin is Prager Groschen

  • 1 Prager Groschen or 10 Prager Groschen

Labbas 8 January 2007

Per Misplaced Pages:WikiProject_Numismatics/Style#Article_titles: Use the local name for the denomination even if there is an English translation. What is the local name of this coin?-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  05:15, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

The usual simple tests

Google Print test:

Google Scholar test:

Amazon.com test:

Best regards, Evv 05:21, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Books in English

  • Trade and Urban Development in Poland: An Economic Geography of Cracow, from its Origins to 1795, by Francis W. Carter, Cambridge University Press, 1994, ISBN 0-521-412390, p.38, 67 & 75:
    One of these currencies was the 'Prague Grossus' which the Polish king,...
    ...enjoyed by the Prague groschen (grossus Pragensis), unfortunately...
    based on the Prague groschen (grossus Pragensis), provided a stable coinage...
  • The Price of Freedom: a history of East Central Europe from the Middle Ages to the present, by Piotr Stefan Wandycz, Second edition, Routledge, 2001, ISBN 0-415-25491-4, p.34:
    ...the two countries - where the Prague silver grossus and the Hungarian golden florin...

Best regards, Evv 05:21, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Prague groschen

Thanks Evv. "Prague groschen" it is, then. --Lysy 09:07, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Indeed, this seems like the acceptable compromise (English locality name, local coin name, per our policies).-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  19:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
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