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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's ] or in a ]). No further edits should be made to this page.''
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The result was '''keep'''. Going with the keeps on this one. Please improve the article using sources provided! ] (]) 17:54, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
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<noinclude>{{AFD help}}</noinclude> <noinclude>{{AFD help}}</noinclude>
:{{la|Erik Deutsch}} – (<includeonly>]</includeonly><noinclude>]</noinclude>) :{{la|Erik Deutsch}} – (<includeonly>]</includeonly><noinclude>]</noinclude>)
:({{Find sources AFD|title=Erik Deutsch}}) :({{Find sources AFD|title=Erik Deutsch}})
Fails NSINGER and GNG, was submitted through AfC and was declined before being moved to articlespace by creator. ] ] 21:01, 6 April 2021 (UTC) Fails NSINGER and GNG, was submitted through AfC and was declined before being moved to articlespace by creator. ] ] 21:01, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
:<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This discussion has been included in the ]. ] (]) 21:02, 6 April 2021 (UTC)</small> :<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This discussion has been included in the ]. ] (]) 21:02, 6 April 2021 (UTC)</small>
:<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This discussion has been included in the ]. ] (]) 21:02, 6 April 2021 (UTC)</small> :<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This discussion has been included in the ]. ] (]) 21:02, 6 April 2021 (UTC)</small>
⚫ *Erik Deutsch is a great musician who most definitely qualifies under wikipedias guidelines. I have followed wiki musician guidelines and after the draft was refused, I revised and updated it so that had supported content and citations. My aim on wiki is to create articles for musicians who have created a body of original work over a long period of time. these are musicians without representation. After waiting almost 3 months for the re submission to be reviewed (after waiting many months for the original draft to be reviewed), I decided today to move forward to place it as an article. ] (]) 21:14, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

*re: following up on notability{{Paragraph break}} Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself.{{Paragraph break}} YES{{Paragraph break}} I've listed multiple respected reviews, features in top music journals in the artists field listed below newspaper articles, books, magazine articles, online versions of print media, and television documentaries except for the following:{{Paragraph break}} Works consisting merely of trivial coverage, such as articles that simply report performance dates, release information or track listings, or the publications of contact and booking details in directories. Articles in a school or university newspaper (or similar), in most cases.{{Paragraph break}} NO Performances listed but dates referencing to his important professional collaborations are listed to support notability {{Paragraph break}} Has received non-trivial coverage in independent reliable sources of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country.{{Paragraph break}} YES: Mexico and the US{{Paragraph break}} Has released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years, and with a roster of performers, many of whom are independently notable).{{Paragraph break}} YES {{Paragraph break}} Is an ensemble that contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles. This should be adapted appropriately for musical genre; for example, having performed two lead roles at major opera houses. Note that this criterion needs to be interpreted with caution, as there have been instances where this criterion was cited in a circular manner to create a self-fulfilling notability loop (e.g. musicians who were "notable" only for having been in two bands, of which one or both were "notable" only because those musicians had been in them.){{Paragraph break}} YES ] (3 yrs), ] (4yrs), ] (2020-present) {{Paragraph break}} as become one of the most prominent representatives of a notable style or the most prominent of the local scene of a city; note that the subject must still meet all ordinary Misplaced Pages standards, including verifiability.{{Paragraph break}} YES The opening part of the article primarily focuses on subjects impact on his local community in Colorado: After completing his degree from CU in piano performance, Deutsch stayed in Boulder developing a busy career as a performer and teacher. County Road X, a cinematic Americana ensemble, released two records during this period, County Road X (2002) and From Seed to Stone (2004). Triangle, a piano trio led by Deutsch's musical mentor Art Lande (on drums), released Three Sides to a Question in 2004. He taught and accompanied students frequently and was an adjunct faculty member at the Naropa University.{{Paragraph break}} Since 2015, Deutsch has hosted a weekly bi-lingual radio show called the Sounds of Brooklyn and Beyond with co-host Sara Valenzuela. The program airs on Jalisco Radio in Guadalajara, Puerto Vallarta, and Ciudad Guzman and is available as a podcast on iTunes and Spotify.{{Paragraph break}} thank you for allowing me to support the notability of this subject. I believe i have provided enough material to support the inclusion of this article. . if i am missing anything that would help I would gladly welcome knowledge of it and edit the article to meet the criteria ] (]) 21:43, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
⚫ Erik Deutsch is a great musician who most definitely qualifies under wikipedias guidelines. I have followed wiki musician guidelines and after the draft was refused, I revised and updated it so that had supported content and citations. My aim on wiki is to create articles for musicians who have created a body of original work over a long period of time. these are musicians without representation. After waiting almost 3 months for the re submission to be reviewed (after waiting many months for the original draft to be reviewed), I decided today to move forward to place it as an article. ] (]) 21:14, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

re: following up on notability

Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself.

YES
I've listed multiple respected reviews, features in top music journals in the artists field listed below
newspaper articles, books, magazine articles, online versions of print media, and television documentaries except for the following:

Works consisting merely of trivial coverage, such as articles that simply report performance dates, release information or track listings, or the publications of contact and booking details in directories.
Articles in a school or university newspaper (or similar), in most cases.

NO Performances listed but dates referencing to his important professional collaborations are listed to support notability

Has received non-trivial coverage in independent reliable sources of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country.

YES: Mexico and the US

Has released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years, and with a roster of performers, many of whom are independently notable).

YES

Is an ensemble that contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles. This should be adapted appropriately for musical genre; for example, having performed two lead roles at major opera houses. Note that this criterion needs to be interpreted with caution, as there have been instances where this criterion was cited in a circular manner to create a self-fulfilling notability loop (e.g. musicians who were "notable" only for having been in two bands, of which one or both were "notable" only because those musicians had been in them.)

YES ] (3 yrs), ] (4yrs), ] (2020-present)

as become one of the most prominent representatives of a notable style or the most prominent of the local scene of a city; note that the subject must still meet all ordinary Misplaced Pages standards, including verifiability.

YES The opening part of the article primarily focuses on subjects impact on his local community in Colorado: After completing his degree from CU in piano performance, Deutsch stayed in Boulder developing a busy career as a performer and teacher. County Road X, a cinematic Americana ensemble, released two records during this period, County Road X (2002) and From Seed to Stone (2004). Triangle, a piano trio led by Deutsch's musical mentor Art Lande (on drums), released Three Sides to a Question in 2004. He taught and accompanied students frequently and was an adjunct faculty member at the Naropa University.

Since 2015, Deutsch has hosted a weekly bi-lingual radio show called the Sounds of Brooklyn and Beyond with co-host Sara Valenzuela. The program airs on Jalisco Radio in Guadalajara, Puerto Vallarta, and Ciudad Guzman and is available as a podcast on iTunes and Spotify.

thank you for allowing me to support the notability of this subject. I believe i have provided enough material to support the inclusion of this article. . if i am missing anything that would help I would gladly welcome knowledge of it and edit the article to meet the criteria ] (]) 21:43, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
* '''Delete''': Notability is not inherited from the notable artists this musician has worked with. Fails ]. Also depressing that the picture currently decorating the article is ''©2016 ShowLove Media || All rights reserved || Photo by John-Ryan Lockman'', now up for deletion on Commons ] ] 09:50, 7 April 2021 (UTC) <!--VCB Timtrent--> * '''Delete''': Notability is not inherited from the notable artists this musician has worked with. Fails ]. Also depressing that the picture currently decorating the article is ''©2016 ShowLove Media || All rights reserved || Photo by John-Ryan Lockman'', now up for deletion on Commons ] ] 09:50, 7 April 2021 (UTC) <!--VCB Timtrent-->
*I think his notability is defined by his work as a solo artist. I'm not basing the article on his notability being inherited. The reviews and feature articles on his work should be suitable proof. ] (]) 12:47, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

I think his notability is defined by his work as a solo artist. I'm not basing the article on his notability being inherited. The reviews and feature articles on his work should be suitable proof. ] (]) 12:47, 7 April 2021 (UTC) *As far as the photo goes, I had the photographer upload and choose the license for that image. I don't know what happened there. ] (]) 12:51, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
⚫ **Cite 5: Odell, Jennifer (May 2012). "CD Reviews". Downbeat Magazine. Vol. 75 no. 5. p. 50.

⚫ **Cite 6: Gilbert, Andrew. "When Musical Cultures Collide". The Boston Globe. Retrieved November 29, 2009.
⚫ As far as the photo goes, I had the photographer upload and choose the license for that image. I don't know what happened there. ] (]) 12:51, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
⚫ **Cite 14: Alain, Drouot (March 2017). "Reviews". Downbeat Magazine. Vol. 84 no. 3. p. 67.

⚫ *These are all national journals, major newspaper feature articles on the subject ] (]) 13:09, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
⚫ Cite 5: Odell, Jennifer (May 2012). "CD Reviews". Downbeat Magazine. Vol. 75 no. 5. p. 50.
⚫ *'''Keep.''' proven notability are his reviews in downbeat http://www.downbeat.com/digitaledition/2017/DB1703/single_page_view/67.html and feature in the boulder weekly citing his contributions to the CO jazz scene https://www.boulderweekly.com/entertainment/erik-deutsch-splits-difference/ ] (]) 13:39, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
⚫ Cite 6: Gilbert, Andrew. "When Musical Cultures Collide". The Boston Globe. Retrieved November 29, 2009.
⚫ Cite 14: Alain, Drouot (March 2017). "Reviews". Downbeat Magazine. Vol. 84 no. 3. p. 67.

These are all national journals, major newspaper feature articles on the subject ] (]) 13:09, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
⚫ :'''Keep.''' proven notability are his reviews in downbeat http://www.downbeat.com/digitaledition/2017/DB1703/single_page_view/67.html and feature in the boulder weekly citing his contributions to the CO jazz scene https://www.boulderweekly.com/entertainment/erik-deutsch-splits-difference/ ] (]) 13:39, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' - The ] from the author will delay my review, but my experience has been that articles that are supported by excessively long statements are usually not notable. ] (]) 15:55, 7 April 2021 (UTC) *'''Comment''' - The ] from the author will delay my review, but my experience has been that articles that are supported by excessively long statements are usually not notable. ] (]) 15:55, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
*'''Weak Delete''' - The article, in its current form, does not show that the subject satisfies the ]. This does not mean that the subject does not satisfy the criteria based on achievements not in the article, and it does not mean that the subject satisfies the criteria based on achievements no in the article. However, the article should speak for itself to the reader, and does not do that. ] (]) 22:10, 7 April 2021 (UTC) *'''Weak Delete''' - The article, in its current form, does not show that the subject satisfies the ]. This does not mean that the subject does not satisfy the criteria based on achievements not in the article, and it does not mean that the subject satisfies the criteria based on achievements no in the article. However, the article should speak for itself to the reader, and does not do that. ] (]) 22:10, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
*'''Keep.''' Satisfies ] and ] based on coverage by reliable secondary sources such as https://www.nashvillescene.com/music/article/13058368/nashville-expat-erik-deutsch-takes-jazz-into-outlaw-country and reviews in the Denver Post https://theknow.denverpost.com/2018/10/31/jazz-erik-deutschs-mingus/199474/ on his new release. ] (]) 16:26, 8 April 2021 (UTC) <small>— ] (]&#32;• ]) has made ] outside this topic. </small> *'''Keep.''' Satisfies ] and ] based on coverage by reliable secondary sources such as https://www.nashvillescene.com/music/article/13058368/nashville-expat-erik-deutsch-takes-jazz-into-outlaw-country and reviews in the Denver Post https://theknow.denverpost.com/2018/10/31/jazz-erik-deutschs-mingus/199474/ on his new release. ] (]) 16:26, 8 April 2021 (UTC) <small>— ] (]&#32;• ]) has made ] outside this topic. </small>
*'''Keep: '''Topic is notable citing reliable sources. - ] (]) 14:00, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' - the subject fails ]. ] (]) 07:55, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />
<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ] <sub>(] / ])</sub> 14:36, 14 April 2021 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div>
*'''Keep''' - meets ] and ] (esp. criteria 4-6). ] (]) 02:21, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
<div class="xfd_relist" style="border-top: 1px solid #AAA; border-bottom: 1px solid #AAA; padding: 0px 25px;"><span style="color: #FF6600;">'''{{resize|91%|] to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.}}'''</span><br />
<small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ] (]) 02:14, 28 April 2021 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist --></div>
*'''Keep''' - it would be hard for a closer to do anything but a "no consensus" based on current arguments, some say GNG is met, others say it isn't. Neither side supports their position very well. However ] is clearly met, by reliable sources already in the article which provide independent, in-depth coverage. Examples include , , , , , . The Downbeat and Boston Globe are of particular significance. ] <sub>(] / ])</sub> 18:56, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
{{clear}}
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's ] or in a ]). No further edits should be made to this page.''<!--Template:Afd bottom--></div>

Latest revision as of 17:54, 7 May 2021

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Going with the keeps on this one. Please improve the article using sources provided! Missvain (talk) 17:54, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Erik Deutsch

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Erik Deutsch (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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Fails NSINGER and GNG, was submitted through AfC and was declined before being moved to articlespace by creator. Noah 21:01, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 21:02, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Washington, D.C.-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 21:02, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Erik Deutsch is a great musician who most definitely qualifies under wikipedias guidelines. I have followed wiki musician guidelines and after the draft was refused, I revised and updated it so that had supported content and citations. My aim on wiki is to create articles for musicians who have created a body of original work over a long period of time. these are musicians without representation. After waiting almost 3 months for the re submission to be reviewed (after waiting many months for the original draft to be reviewed), I decided today to move forward to place it as an article. Mistephake (talk) 21:14, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
  • re: following up on notability Has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial, published works appearing in sources that are reliable, not self-published, and are independent of the musician or ensemble itself. YES I've listed multiple respected reviews, features in top music journals in the artists field listed below newspaper articles, books, magazine articles, online versions of print media, and television documentaries except for the following: Works consisting merely of trivial coverage, such as articles that simply report performance dates, release information or track listings, or the publications of contact and booking details in directories. Articles in a school or university newspaper (or similar), in most cases. NO Performances listed but dates referencing to his important professional collaborations are listed to support notability Has received non-trivial coverage in independent reliable sources of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country. YES: Mexico and the US Has released two or more albums on a major record label or on one of the more important indie labels (i.e., an independent label with a history of more than a few years, and with a roster of performers, many of whom are independently notable). YES Is an ensemble that contains two or more independently notable musicians, or is a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles. This should be adapted appropriately for musical genre; for example, having performed two lead roles at major opera houses. Note that this criterion needs to be interpreted with caution, as there have been instances where this criterion was cited in a circular manner to create a self-fulfilling notability loop (e.g. musicians who were "notable" only for having been in two bands, of which one or both were "notable" only because those musicians had been in them.) YES Charlie Hunter (3 yrs), Leftover Salmon (4yrs), The Chicks (2020-present) as become one of the most prominent representatives of a notable style or the most prominent of the local scene of a city; note that the subject must still meet all ordinary Misplaced Pages standards, including verifiability. YES The opening part of the article primarily focuses on subjects impact on his local community in Colorado: After completing his degree from CU in piano performance, Deutsch stayed in Boulder developing a busy career as a performer and teacher. County Road X, a cinematic Americana ensemble, released two records during this period, County Road X (2002) and From Seed to Stone (2004). Triangle, a piano trio led by Deutsch's musical mentor Art Lande (on drums), released Three Sides to a Question in 2004. He taught and accompanied students frequently and was an adjunct faculty member at the Naropa University. Since 2015, Deutsch has hosted a weekly bi-lingual radio show called the Sounds of Brooklyn and Beyond with co-host Sara Valenzuela. The program airs on Jalisco Radio in Guadalajara, Puerto Vallarta, and Ciudad Guzman and is available as a podcast on iTunes and Spotify. thank you for allowing me to support the notability of this subject. I believe i have provided enough material to support the inclusion of this article. . if i am missing anything that would help I would gladly welcome knowledge of it and edit the article to meet the criteria Mistephake (talk) 21:43, 6 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Delete: Notability is not inherited from the notable artists this musician has worked with. Fails WP:GNG. Also depressing that the picture currently decorating the article is ©2016 ShowLove Media || All rights reserved || Photo by John-Ryan Lockman, now up for deletion on Commons Fiddle Faddle 09:50, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
  • I think his notability is defined by his work as a solo artist. I'm not basing the article on his notability being inherited. The reviews and feature articles on his work should be suitable proof. Mistephake (talk) 12:47, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
  • As far as the photo goes, I had the photographer upload and choose the license for that image. I don't know what happened there. Mistephake (talk) 12:51, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
    • Cite 5: Odell, Jennifer (May 2012). "CD Reviews". Downbeat Magazine. Vol. 75 no. 5. p. 50.
    • Cite 6: Gilbert, Andrew. "When Musical Cultures Collide". The Boston Globe. Retrieved November 29, 2009.
    • Cite 14: Alain, Drouot (March 2017). "Reviews". Downbeat Magazine. Vol. 84 no. 3. p. 67.
  • These are all national journals, major newspaper feature articles on the subject Mistephake (talk) 13:09, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Keep. proven notability are his reviews in downbeat http://www.downbeat.com/digitaledition/2017/DB1703/single_page_view/67.html and feature in the boulder weekly citing his contributions to the CO jazz scene https://www.boulderweekly.com/entertainment/erik-deutsch-splits-difference/ Mistephake (talk) 13:39, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Comment - The walls of text from the author will delay my review, but my experience has been that articles that are supported by excessively long statements are usually not notable. Robert McClenon (talk) 15:55, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Weak Delete - The article, in its current form, does not show that the subject satisfies the musical notability criteria. This does not mean that the subject does not satisfy the criteria based on achievements not in the article, and it does not mean that the subject satisfies the criteria based on achievements no in the article. However, the article should speak for itself to the reader, and does not do that. Robert McClenon (talk) 22:10, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Keep. Satisfies WP:BASIC and WP:GNG based on coverage by reliable secondary sources such as https://www.nashvillescene.com/music/article/13058368/nashville-expat-erik-deutsch-takes-jazz-into-outlaw-country and reviews in the Denver Post https://theknow.denverpost.com/2018/10/31/jazz-erik-deutschs-mingus/199474/ on his new release. Roulisegee (talk) 16:26, 8 April 2021 (UTC) — Roulisegee (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
  • Keep: Topic is notable citing reliable sources. - Ret.Prof (talk) 14:00, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Delete - the subject fails WP:NMUSIC. Riteboke (talk) 07:55, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 14:36, 14 April 2021 (UTC) Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Barkeep49 (talk) 02:14, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
  • Keep - it would be hard for a closer to do anything but a "no consensus" based on current arguments, some say GNG is met, others say it isn't. Neither side supports their position very well. However WP:GNG is clearly met, by reliable sources already in the article which provide independent, in-depth coverage. Examples include , , , , , . The Downbeat and Boston Globe are of particular significance. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 18:56, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.