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Revision as of 09:29, 21 January 2007 editValjean (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, IP block exemptions, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers95,268 edits revise intro boxes← Previous edit Latest revision as of 00:47, 18 December 2024 edit undoDaniloDaysOfOurLives (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Page movers, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers24,728 edits Happy First Edit Day! 
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| <center><math>\star</math>&nbsp;&nbsp;'''Some principles governing this talk page'''&nbsp;&nbsp;<math>\star</math></center><br>
{{Ct/aware|ap|cc|ps}}
<center>Please observe ] and ] here. This talk page is my territory, and I assume janitorial responsibility for it. I may, without notice, ] comments to put like with like, correct indents, or retitle sections to reflect their contents more clearly. While I reserve the right to delete comments, I am normally opposed to doing so and use archives instead. If I inadvertently change the meaning, please contact me! When all else fails, check the edit history. -- ]</center>
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|<center><math>\star</math>&nbsp;&nbsp;'''Regarding posting of my personal info at Misplaced Pages'''&nbsp;&nbsp;<math>\star</math></center><br>
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<center>Lately I have become more sensitive to the ] about myself here at Misplaced Pages. I am the target of ] and ] from some pretty unbalanced people and regularly receive threats (including death threats) from ]s and other promoters of ]. While I don't normally have any reason to hide my true identity, any past revealings by myself should not be construed by others as license to do it here at Misplaced Pages, where only my "]" tag should be used. While such revealings here have often been done innocently, I still reserve the right to delete personal information posted here at Misplaced Pages by others. My own and my family's security is at stake here, and I would appreciate support in this matter. Thanks. -- ]</center>
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| subject2 = article
{| class="infobox" width="300px"
| author2 = Ashe Schow
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| title2 = Misplaced Pages founder advocates for updating policies following 'The Hunting Ground' controversy
!align="center"|]<br/>]
| org2 = '']''
| url2 = https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/wikipedia-founder-advocates-for-updating-policies-following-the-hunting-ground-controversy
| date2 = November 25, 2015
| quote2 = Another editor, whose username is BullRangifer, suggested Misplaced Pages not become "a kangaroo court or lynching" by rushing to ban accounts who break COI. BullRangifer suggested following seven steps to determine whether "The Hunting Ground" crew member should be banned and whether his edits should be removed. Some of the steps included how he handled questions related to his edits and whether he stuck to discussion pages to ask for edits rather than making them himself.
| accessdate2 = February 8, 2020
| subject3 = article
| author3 = Marcus Gilmer
| title3 = Misplaced Pages demotes Breitbart to fake news
| org3 = ]
| url3 = https://mashable.com/article/wikipedia-breitbart-ban-fake-news/
| date3 = October 3, 2018
| quote3 = Support. If anything, it's even more unreliable than the Daily Mail, as they at least use trained journalists, whereas Breitbart is a fringe propaganda organization which lets its extreme partisan bias get in the way of how it reports things, and whether it does so, just as Fox News does. It too should be deprecated, but let's start with Breitbart (and InfoWars). — BullRangifer 17:51, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
| accessdate3 = October 5, 2018
| subject4 = article
| author4 = Alexander Hall
| title4 = Report: Misplaced Pages Editors Censoring Evidence Supporting Michael Flynn
| org4 = ]
| url4 = https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/techwatch/alexander-hall/2020/08/13/report-wikipedia-editors-censoring-evidence-supporting
| date4 = August 13, 2020
| quote4 = Liberal user Valjean responded by condemning this revelation as 'conspiracy theories' and 'part of a cover-up,' even 'when it comes from the now-sitting government of the USA.' Valjean specified that 'Nothing coming from Trump's Justice Department, FBI, CIA, anything, can be trusted.' Breitbart alleged that Valjean, formerly under the name 'BullRangifer' has been 'previously involved in slanting articles about the Russia investigation.'
| accessdate4 = August 15, 2020
| subject5 = article
| author5 = Raymond Sturman
| title5 = Top 5 Editing Conflicts in Misplaced Pages Pages on Religion
| org5 = World Religion News
| url5 = https://www.worldreligionnews.com/wikipedia/top-5-editing-conflicts-in-wikipedia-pages-on-religion/
| date5 = October 23, 2024
| quote5 = Located on the Catholic Church Misplaced Pages talk page, the screenshot below details a recent discussion of the tension between the Roman Catholic Church and other branches of Catholicism. Editor 'Valjean' is protesting that the word 'Roman' has been removed from the title, arguing that there are other branches of Catholicism, while the Roman Catholic Church says it is the real Catholic Church.
| accessdate5 = October 24, 2024
}}{{clear}}
<!-- {{semi-retired|Some may have noticed that my activity level isn't anywhere near what it used to be. Well, being a Misplaced Pages editor is just not that much fun anymore.

Wikilawyering has become a fine art that's exploited by partisan POV pushers and, predominantly right-wing, paid political whitewashers (the Koch brothers control many articles), and NPOV is pretty much impossible to maintain on such articles. It's not worth the effort (which is more like a battle), so a lot of the time I now avoid such conflict zones.

Fixing commas and grammar is pretty uncontroversial. It's a shame that talent, knowledge and experience are wasted. Experienced editors get burned out, and there is not an endless supply of such editors, so Misplaced Pages is bleeding. Until the community does something to rectify this situation, it will lose out on such talent and the editing pool will become more and more dominated by political hacks and amateur jerks.}} -->
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{{Talk header |bottom= |custom_header=Welcome to Valjean's talk page! ]] |wp= |display_title= |arpol= |sc1= |sc2= |sc3= |sc4= |sc5= |demospace= |hide_find_sources= |search_term1= |search_term2= |search-domain= |noarchive= |search= }}
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== Mail ==

{{You’ve got mail}} ] (]) 23:33, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

== Administrators' newsletter – September 2024 ==

] from the past month (August 2024).

<div style="display: flex; flex-wrap: wrap">
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] '''Administrator changes'''
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] '''Interface administrator changes'''
:] ]

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] '''Oversighter changes'''
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] '''CheckUser changes'''
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] '''Guideline and policy news'''
* Following an ], there is a new ]: ], which {{tq|applies to unused maintenance categories, such as empty dated maintenance categories for dates in the past}}.
* A ] is open to discuss whether ] should be adopted as a ].

] '''Arbitration'''
* Following a ], ] (the topic and interaction bans on ], respectively) were repealed.
* ] of the ] ("{{noping|Cinderella157}} German history topic ban") was ] for a period of six months.
* The arbitration case ] is currently open. Proposed decision is expected by 3 September 2024 for this case.

] '''Miscellaneous'''
* Editors can now enter into ], an alternative for informal '']'' arrangements, to have a ] reviewed in return for reviewing a different editor's nomination.
* A ] is happening in September 2024 to reduce the number of unreviewed articles and redirects in the ]. Currently, there is a backlog of over 13,900 articles and 26,200 redirects awaiting review. ]

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== ''The Signpost'': 4 September 2024 ==
__TOC__


<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2024-09-04}} </div><!--Volume 20, Issue 12--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 13:24, 4 September 2024 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script (]) --></div></div>
==Request for Mediation==
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{{RFM-Request|Barrett_v._Rosenthal|Barrett_v._Rosenthal}} ✎ <span style="font-family: Verdana">] ( ] &bull; ] )</span> 23:14, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


== That was kind of sweet ==
::Thank you. I'll go read up on this. ] 23:45, 17 January 2007 (UTC)


''""'' ] (]) 07:14, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
:::I do not understand why there is a request for mediation on an article that seems to have stabilized, and is pretty neutral now. I admit that I am mystified.] 05:20, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
: Ah! The ] situation. I have forgotten most of it, so had to look again. I hope she feels justice was finally done here. I still believe we should allow mention of the controversy over Misplaced Pages's failure. We normally do it as it's clearly notable enough for mention. Our added failure to even mention it is a clear case of censorship to protect Misplaced Pages's reputation, and that's just wrong. In one breath we have a policy that says Misplaced Pages is ], and in the next we actually censor it for the worst possible reason. That example makes me ashamed to be a wikipedian. Consensus can be wrong.
: What is that Twitter moment she mentions? Do you have info on that or a link to a tweet? https://x.com/emilymandel -- ] (]) (PING me) 18:36, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
::My reading is when she tweeted "Interview me please!" and ''Slate'' said "". ] (]) 19:47, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
::: That makes sense. It worked. -- ] (]) (PING me) 20:59, 10 September 2024 (UTC)


== Tim Ferriss ==
:::: I agree. The article is not a current issue, while the announcement of the RfM was made in the context of discussions about her making of serious charges against myself. '''That''' is the relevant issue. -- ] 07:21, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


Hi Valjean, I'm working to update ]'s page with details about his philanthropic work in the field of psychedelic research. I see that you're a member of ], so I hope that you will consider implementing my ]. I would love your help. Thank you! ] (]) 14:55, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
If you're interested, Peter is answering questions about the RfM on ]. --] 03:29, 20 January 2007 (UTC)


== Notification ==
{| class="messagebox" style="width:80%"
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|A ] to which you are a party was not accepted and has been delisted. You can find more information on the mediation subpage, ].
::::::::''For the Mediation Committee,'' <span style="font-family: Verdana">] ]</span>


See ]. ] (]) 18:43, 12 September 2024 (UTC)
<small><center>This message delivered by ], an automated bot account operated by the ] to perform case management. If you have questions about this bot, please ].</center></small>

== Destiny (streamer) revert ==

@]Can you elaborate on why Fox News is not credible but other outlets are? Destiny made very extreme remarks regarding the Trump assassination attempt as clearly stated in a Piers Morgan: Uncensored episode. Are you suggesting I include the YouTube video as a source as well? {{User:Brenr/signature/raw|17:09, September 21, 2024 (UTC)}} {{User:Brenr/signature/raw|17:09, September 21, 2024 (UTC)}} 17:09, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
:@] I've adjusted the source to YouTube. Let's not revert that. I can find additional sources so it's incompliance with Misplaced Pages's standards. {{User:Brenr/signature/raw|17:14, September 21, 2024 (UTC)}}
:: Why do you even ask such a question? Are you unaware of the extreme biases of Fox News and how it broadcasts falsehoods and deception all the time? We limit its use, especially regarding BLP assertions. If Destiny is really far-left, then there will be multiple mainstream RS that say so. The article already includes multiple descriptions of Destiny's political views. Your YouTube primary source isn't good either. It doesn't even describe him as far-left. You need multiple mainstream, secondary, RS that say it. This is BLP stuff, so we're very careful and delete immediately until better sourcing is provided. -- ] (]) (PING me) 17:23, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
:::A YouTube video '''is''' an original source, which is sufficient. A valid source doesn't need to be one that is from a publisher with a pundit who describes him as extreme. He has demonstrated that by his own words, which is absolutely sufficient as a source. Also, where are you getting this idea that left-wing media outlets would publish articles claiming Destiny is far left when the outlets themselves have a left leaning? {{User:Brenr/signature/raw|17:30, September 21, 2024 (UTC)}}
:::: YouTube is a primary source we are cautious about using, especially for BLP claims. I use it to back up what RS already say. That's a legitimate use of primary sources. That he might express views that are typically far-left isn't good enough. That's our own POV about what he says. We need secondary RS that expressly say it. If it's that difficult to find such sources, then it doesn't belong in the article. BTW, I have no previous knowledge of either Destiny or Tim Pool. I don't usually listen to podcasts or YouTube channels for such content. I use YouTube for music, and YouTube Premium is well worth the cost. You can read about ]. I occasionally hear an episode of ] because my wife shares it with me. She likes him, and he doesn't rant and rave. He seems clearly left-wing and progressive, and not far-left. -- ] (]) (PING me) 17:49, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

== Tim Ferriss - Career section ==

Hi Valjean, Thanks so much for you help on ]'s page. Would you be willing to look at the ] I posted about adding to the Career section? I would really appreciate it. Thank you! ] (]) 14:37, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
: {{Done}}. -- ] (]) (PING me) 15:15, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
::Thank you so much! ] (]) 15:16, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

== A cup of tea for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | thank you for undoing my edit to ]! I didn't realize it was a quote and will be more careful next time :) ] (] • ]) 04:10, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
|} |}
: You're very welcome, and thank you. -- ] (]) (PING me) 04:19, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
<div align="right">''This message delivered: 12:15, 20 January 2007 (UTC)''.</div>


== ''The Signpost'': 26 September 2024 ==
== Some wise words of advice to Ilena ==
(Copied from the block warning .)


<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2024-09-26}} </div><!--Volume 20, Issue 13--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 20:07, 26 September 2024 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script (]) --></div></div>
{| style="background: #eee; font-size: 95%; border: 1px solid #aaa" align=center width=95%
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| Site policies hold you responsible for acting conservatively about allegations against other editors. That means you must be forthcoming with page diffs and other relevant evidence that connects all the dots to your conclusion, and retract what you cannot support. If you read something into a certain piece of evidence and the same meaning wouldn't be clear to a reasonable person, then the burden of proof is on you to supply more evidence that fills those gaps. You say you've won a court case at the California state supreme court so you ought to be more familiar with that basic principle than most of the editors at Misplaced Pages. As of now I hold you fully responsible for supplying adequate and reasonable evidence. This cannot be unduly burdensome to the successful plaintiff of a prominent lawsuit. I will use my sysop tools up to and including blocks and bans to enforce that expectation. <font face="Verdana">]<sup>'']''</sup></font> 23:16, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

== A cup of coffee for you! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | ]
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | Keep seeing your diligent work on ] pop up on my watchlist. ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 22:20, 27 September 2024 (UTC)
|} |}
: Thanks! So nice to have you back. -- ] (]) (PING me) 22:33, 27 September 2024 (UTC)


== Tim Ferriss - additional updates ==
Added here by ] 09:48, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


Hi Valjean, You have been so helpful on ]'s page. I added one more edit request to the Talk page with ideas for the Early life and Personal life sections as well as the lead. I would love it if you would take a look - ]. I'm grateful for your assistance. Thank you! ] (]) 15:16, 30 September 2024 (UTC)


== Administrators' newsletter – October 2024 ==
: She failed to heed the words of advice, and was then . -- ] 09:51, 18 January 2007 (UTC)


] from the past month (September 2024).
:: That blocked has been extended to one week. -- ] 11:52, 20 January 2007 (UTC)


]
== Defusing the situation ==


] '''Administrator changes'''
I am going to make an attempt to somewhat defuse this situation by editing some of my later posts (just follow my edit history to see where I do it, and notify me on my talk page if I miss any that should be changed).
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''',''' but Ilena is refusing to accept my offer for her to provide diffs and evidence for her serious charges against me, and now she has found what she attempts to use as an , which is just another attempt to avoid providing proof of her very serious charges against me. No, it's her turn to provide evidence, not my turn.
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] '''Guideline and policy news'''
I am now going to begin removing that illegitimate excuse by editing my posts. She won't like it, but I'm being totally upfront and transparent in my actions, and this is a good faith effort to simplify things. I'm going to replace any of my uses of the words "libel" and "attack" with "charges", or something like that, as the situation warrants. Since I have never had, or even hinted at, any intent to sue her, the point of whether a specific charge of hers is "libelous" or not is moot. I regularly get libelled and receive death threats without going to the police or courts, and this situation is no different.
*] are a proposed new process for selecting administrators, offering an alternative to ] (RfA). The first trial election will take place in October 2024, with ] from October 8 to 14, a ] from October 22 to 24, and ] from October 25 to 31. For questions or to help out, please visit the talk page at ].
* Following ], the speedy deletion reason "File pages without a corresponding file" has been moved from criterion ] to ]. This does not change what can be speedily deleted.
* A ] is open to discuss whether there is a consensus to have an ] process.


] '''Arbitration'''
She can't deny that she has been making such charges (which at Misplaced Pages are considered attacks against another editor), and thus her obligation to provide evidence still stands. -- ] 08:48, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
* The arbitration case '']'' has been closed.
* An arbitration case regarding ] has been opened.
* Editors are invited to ''']''' to serve on the 2024 Arbitration Committee Electoral Commission until ''23:59 October 8, 2024 (UTC)''.


] '''Miscellaneous'''
== ] ==
* If you are interested in stopping spammers, please put ] and ] on your watchlist, and help out when you can.


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Have you seen the black box on his user page, second from top? It might explain a lot. I suggest holding off on RFC for a bit. Regards, <font face="Verdana">]</font><sup>'']''</sup> 01:21, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
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== From ] == == ''The Signpost'': 19 October 2024 ==
I suspect you have this discussion bookmarked as you have participated in it, but I wanted to make sure that you read this:
{{cquote|The provocation has got to stop. Fyslee, if we don't see significant improvement in your handling of the situation, you're just as likely to be sanctioned. Both of you need to stop, tone down the rhetoric and attacks, and work with the facts. - ] ] 16:24, 19 January 2007 (UTC)}}
Fyslee, I always have been the first person to admit that Ilena's behaviour is poor, the dfference between me and others, is that I'm trying to fix it instead of sanction her from it. However, you need to realize that your own behaviour is also at fault here. I suggest that either you extend an olive branch to Ilena and offer to forget and/or forgive, or to try to disengage from the situation. It takes two to tango. If you won't feed her bad behaviour, then either she will stop, or she will continue and be ]. I'm sure as far as you are concerned, either is a desirab;e outcome, so why not try it? Cheers, ✎ <span style="font-family: Verdana">] ( ] &bull; ] )</span> 19:18, 19 January 2007 (UTC)


<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2024-10-19}} </div><!--Volume 20, Issue 14--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 11:13, 19 October 2024 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script (]) --></div></div>
: Thanks for the notification. I'm in the Danish time zone and hadn't seen it yet after a busy day. I have over 1100 items on my watchlist and am right now working on finding the diffs that have been requested of me, even though Ilena hasn't complied with multiple requests from several editors to do the same. We haven't even gotten close to that situation. She just recycles her accusations without providing any proof. I hope you realize that they are extreme misrepresentations of some slight facts. She twists things so they are hardly recognizable. So far she has refused to accept the olive branch I still offer her on my talk page. I have lost hope of her doing so, and you haven't been effective at getting her to cease all other activities and concentrate on doing that alone. As you should know, an accusation carries less-than-no-weight (as to its possible truthfulness) until precisely documented so all can understand it. Until then it stands as an undocumented charge designed to damage the person attacked, which is quite unethical. I am willing to lay low, but I expect you to then do your duty (as her mentor and what amounts to an Adopt-a-user) by defending me and censoring her. That's your duty. It is not your duty to defend her, except if she is being treated unfairly. She should not be defended when she violates policies and attacks others. She needs you to teach her about proper behavior here. I have only protested and tried to defend myself, primarily by repeatedly demanding evidence. For that you have treated me as an aggressor, which is very unfair. Not being allowed to defend oneself is very unjust. It's all very sad. I still find your intentions regarding mentoring her to be quite honorable. It's probably because you were unfamiliar with her (she's extremely infamous on Usenet and in anti-spam groups) that you even volunteered to try to help her. Good for you. No one else who knows her would have dared to try. -- ] 20:04, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
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:*If I may be so bold, it was probably because it had conditions attached, and came off as "I'll back off if you do x y and z" - it wasn't unreasonable, but sure you can see why she refused it. Personally, I believe Taxman had a point. While Ilena's claims were the more damaging, you've also made some disparaging comments towards her as well, and those aren't acceptable either. If you would just leave Ilena well enough alone, I think with a one week block, if you let her be, things might mend themselves with time. An apology for the comments ''you'' have made would definitely go a long way to vindicating yourself, if it ever does come to the point of community bans. Strive to be better than her, and you cannot go wrong. Cheers, ✎ <span style="font-family: Verdana">] ( ] &bull; ] )</span> 20:16, 19 January 2007 (UTC)


== Administrators' newsletter – November 2024 ==
==nothing much==
I am just pointing out that your QF site had an article where LP is mentioned as double Nobelist when you are heavily pro-QW, that's all. Sloppy writing in the wee hours. Thought you would appreciate the irony of a free QF link, too.--] 12:06, 20 January 2007 (UTC)


] from the past month (October 2024).
: Okay. Pauling was exceptional and contributed greatly to our knowledge base. That fact should never be taken from him. That doesnt' justify his later course of action, both scientifically or personally. -- ] 12:33, 20 January 2007 (UTC)


]
== My offer to Ilena - 2 ==


] '''Administrator changes'''
Ilena, you have made many serious accusations against me. If I have done something wrong, then I'll be happy to examine the diffs and either explain or apologize (it wouldn't be the first time!). I am inviting you to present your case here. It needs to be
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] '''CheckUser changes'''
1. Very precise and specific accusations
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] '''Oversighter changes'''
2. One accusation at a time
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] '''Guideline and policy news'''
* Following a ], the ] proposal that went for a trial to refine the ] (RfA) process has been discontinued.
* Following a ], ] is adopted as a policy.

] '''Technical news'''
* Mass deletions done with the ] tool now have the 'Nuke' tag. This change will make reviewing and analyzing deletions performed with the tool easier. {{phab|T366068}}

] '''Arbitration'''
* {{noping|RoySmith}}, {{noping|Barkeep49}} and {{noping|Cyberpower678}} have been appointed to the ] for the ]. {{noping|ThadeusOfNazereth}} and {{noping|Dr vulpes}} are reserve commissioners.
* Eligible editors are invited to self-nominate from 3 November 2024 until 12 November 2024 to stand in the ].
* The Arbitration Committee is ] for roles such as clerks, access to the COI queue, checkuser, and oversight.
] '''Miscellaneous'''
* An ] is happening in November 2024 to reduce the backlog of articles tagged with {{tl|Unreferenced}}. You can help reduce the backlog by adding citations to these articles. ]

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== on communication in different societies ==

As a New Yorker, I think the truism or the stereotype of learned experience is a dangerous and powerful thing. Universality can also be a delusion at times, but consider empiricism, a topic I know we both cherish. Many things about the universe are counter-intuitive and sometimes even irrational, like quantum mechanics. Yet we still sometimes harbor the delusion of a Newtonian universe. We also inhabit a ]. ] is a fraught topic. What I mean by all of this abstract stuff is that it's better not to generalize even though obviously different societies are different. For example, in low-content or high-context societies, for example, I recently had the occasion to work with a lot of international folks from the Scandinavian region. There's a bluntness that I can appreciate, very different from say, Japan, where it's expected to imply or skirt around certain things. Yes, Israelis also have their own type of communication and some if it is a stereotype, but how can you argue with one's internalized lived experience? Yet, we must, because it can cause to make generalizations go beyond the scope or local minimum which they apply in. As a New Yorker, I've always seen other New Yorkers put themselves out there to help anyone who needs it, and work together as a city to heal or help communities, yet you would hear the stereotype that New Yorkers aren't "nice." Yet, "Minnesota nice" people will tell you that their pleasantries are passive aggression. What's better?

A writer like ] is reliable. I challenge you to find any errors in his books on Israel and Zionism. Sure, he has a POV, but he's not Dershowitz or Karsh. And there's nothing really that wrong with Karsh either, but he doesn't make any illusion of showing where he's coming from. That doesn't mean he can't be used for facts, since we apparently think it's ok to use an anthropologist, Nadia abu el Haj, on an article about genetics, or we'll use an economist instead of a historian as on the Zionism article. There's a problem on Misplaced Pages in that we have inconsistently applied, in some cases leading to presumed-unintentional cherrypicking, when it comes to a number of issues about international politics. In fact, I would challenge anyone who thinks there aren't many problems with Misplaced Pages's coverage of international politics to actually spend some time thoughtfully compiling a source survey of the top Ivy League or Cambridge/Oxford/Stanford/MIT/and similar caliber academics and how they treat international politics, versus some of the academics that end up getting used on Misplaced Pages but are objectively less pedigreed - maybe not fringe per se, but definitely in a specific niche.

How are you feeling about tonight? I'd say about D 342 is my prediction and a trifecta is looking quite possible if NE-Sen, MT, and/or OH have a D night. House also looks good, as 3 of the R-to-D flips are already priced in by the NYT, and Oracle Pelosi has graced us with her aligning view. ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 21:50, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

:Apologies for butting in uninvited, but I ended up here by happenstance & felt the need to reply.
:On a somewhat cursory glance of his writings, I would not consider Gil Troy a reliable source as he is rather prone to errors.
:In he writes that ''"Israel has been falsely accused of ...withholding vaccines from Palestinians"'' despite that being (He also cites his own opinion article) He also states ''"Israel has no legislation based on race"'' on the pretext that race = ''"appearance, blood, presumed biology or skin color"'', which ignores the social aspect of race as a concept. He then uses this as justification for his later reasoning -
:''"Security-based distinctions may keep Israelis and Palestinians apart but that’s not apartheid, a race-based, skin-color-driven form of legal discrimination."'' (I'm not commenting on if Israel does or does not practice apartheid, only that he does not understand what the word means, thus failing to properly counter the accusation).
:Then, in his book, , he references posters saying “Rape Is Resistance and “Babies Are Occupiers Too… Free Palestine by Any Means Necessary.”, but what he is referencing are obviously fake stickers spread online by an outrage grifter named .
:He does not do his research & he does not care for accuracy.
:Again, apologies for this potential tirade, I'm not outright objecting to your point or mean any offense to you, but I felt the need to point out issues with Gil Troy specifically. ] (]) 00:45, 6 November 2024 (UTC)
{{od}}
My reply to both of you is that I don't know who Troy is and haven't considered him in anything I've said. What I said at the Zionism article was generalities and principles. I have not been active in the Middle East topics area and have no desire to get into that quagmire and quicksand. I suspect it has a lot of tricky aspects, just like the gender and LGBTQ topics, and one can easily offend and be misunderstood. I have seen too many good editors blocked because of it in both areas. I am not an expert and have a lot to learn, so I appreciate all input. Feel free to teach me.

My father and brothers have traveled in those areas, while I have only visited Lebanon for ten days in 1996. We stayed with our new family in Beirut. My wife's nephew met a Christian Lebanese girl in England, and we were invited to the wedding. The food and hospitality were amazing! Super healthy and tasty. We love garlic, so got lots of it. It was a different party and restaurant every night. We chartered a bus for the whole family and toured the country. That was quite the experience. As we got further and further south in the Beqaa Valley, stopping at checkpoint after checkpoint, the signs on buildings got more and more ominous. I was the only American, and I was warned, for good reason, to not let my nationality be known. The signs showed huge caricatures of American soldiers with alligator heads with Arabic babies in their mouths, with lots of blood. At one checkpoint, the driver refused to go any further, with the explanation that we were getting too far into Hezbollah territory and could risk becoming hostages. Yes, it sounded like a good idea to get out of that area! Further south was the area from which Hezbollah shoots their rockets into northern Israel. Every day Israeli jets buzzed Beirut, with loud sonic booms and generally spreading terror, because they would also shoot at targets. We saw on TV a little knoll in the Beqaa Valley that had a Syrian tank on it. An Israeli jet blew it up, and that was just on the other side of the coastal range from where we were. This was very different from peaceful Denmark! It turned out that this was normal for peacetime. There were no active conflicts at the time, so this was just the usual way that Israel treated Lebanon. I would love to visit Israel, but with Lebanon stamped in my passport, that would have been out of the question. -- ] (]) (PING me) 01:48, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

:I brought up Troy as an example of a reliable Zionist historian since you (Valjean) said that Zionist historians exaggerate. I'm sure that some Zionist historians do, but Troy is reliable. Responding to Butterscotch - is he a friend of yours? - Israel does give vaccines to the Palestinians, Troy's opinion on the appropriateness of the word apartheid is hardly impeaching his credibility, and your example of some kind of outrage grifter doesn't negate the fact that there are very real activists espousing those messages in addition to presumed trolls. Nothing in Buttscotch's thread is any kind of indictment or critique of Troy. Troy happens to be Canadian and is not Israeli. But there are also a number of reliable Israeli historians. ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 00:24, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
::I don't really know @], as I said, I got here by happenstance, more specifically, I misclicked & my curiosity got the best of me.
::The point of how Israel is ''now'' handling vaccines though, is irrelevant considering what/when Troy was referring to, Covid-19, where that was an issue.
::I was not commenting on his opinion of how appropriate the word apartheid was, but rather that he either 1) didn't have the wherewithal to check what the accusation he sought to deny meant, or 2) he purposefully sought to mislead the reader as he repeatedly emphasizes his incorrect understanding of race to dismiss the argument. ''(I'm trying to practice good faith in my analysis of his work, so I'll stick with 1)''.
::My "example of some kind of outrage grifter" is important because the only place I can find of any evidence showing posters or stickers with that message are from a bunch of grifters on twitter who peddle in disinformation. <sub>(If you can find actual protesters saying either “Rape Is Resistance" or “Babies Are Occupiers Too", please let me know so I can condemn them & block them)</sub> It's important because it would show that he doesn't scrutinize or verify his sources. It also didn't help that he didn't actually cite any info for that book, so its contents remain academically useless.
::It's fine for him to be highly opinionated, but his inability to properly fact check his sources to support those opinions leave him as a sub-par writer, especially for such a contentious topic.
::There should be enough ''actually'' academic Zionist scholars to cite anyway, so I don't feel we'd be at much of a loss not using him.
::...''And'', I seem to've typed out another wall of text, sorry for that. Also, apologies to Valjean for having my words clutter your page. ] (]) 01:17, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
:::That's a ridiculous assumption that because you couldn't personally verify something, you believe that is evidence that Troy doesn't fact check his sources and is a sub-par writer. He's an academic and a respected published author and historian. ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 01:42, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
::::Well if I can't verify the claim, and he doesn't cite anything, its validity should be considered questionable. He's also an ''American presidential'' historian, not a Zionist historian <sub>(should've brought that up earlier)</sub>, so his academic credentials are unrelated to his activism.
::::Are you going to acknowledge anything else that I wrote? Also, should we take this to a different page as to not further bother Valjean? ] (]) 01:59, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
:::::Actually I'd rather drop it. You haven't made any reasonable arguments. Troy is a historian of Zionism as well as other types of history. If Valjean wants to respond to any of this, he can, or not. I was responding to something Valjean wrote, as far as I know there isn't any editing issue that you and I have to discuss. Valjean is one of my friends here. But I unfortunately found a lot of problems with the recent statement he made on Zionism. I do not think I could find common ground with you on this, and you've done little to disabuse me of that. Troy is reliable, but I also haven't at any time cited anything to him in an article. If I ever do and you revert that, we can discuss it then, until then, I don't think we have anything to discuss further right now. ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 03:38, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
{{od}}
I don't mind you holding your conversation here. I'm learning from it! Andre, please explain what problems you found with my comments. I'm sure I can learn more. My opinion there is neither my full POV (whatever the fuck that might be!) nor necessarily well-informed, hence my desire to hear your opinion. (It would also help me to know your background. Jewish?... or use email) I have a pathologically insatiable desire to always be learning, hence my love for editing here and watching '']''. (Feel free to improve my article ].) -- ] (]) (PING me) 05:18, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

:I think it's been a matter of public record on wiki so I don't mind saying that my great-grandparents came to America fleeing the pogroms in the Russian Empire and Eastern Europe. I tend not to agree with my more right-wing family members but most American Jews are quite progressive and believe it's OK to criticize the current right-wing government of Israel and the high civilian death tolls. It's also the case that Hamas uses human shields and puts hostages in civilian areas or with journalists or military installations in hospitals. There are many problematic tropes and misinformation, such as those who accuse Israel of intentionally trying to wipe out the Palestinian population, a population that has only continued to grow, nothing like the Holocaust during which 6 million Jews were killed and the population still hasn't recovered. Arab citizens in Israel can vote, own land, and serve in the parliament. Most of the Jewish population of Israel, only about half of which is European, went there because they had nowhere else to go after persecution in Europe and the Middle East/North African areas that became inhospital and expelled or otherwise persecuted their Jews in the aftermath of 1948. The US did not accept many Jewish refugees in the 1930s and 1940s. That doesn't mean the Palestinian refugees didn't also in many cases get a raw deal and it's fair to criticize the West Bank settlers that often flout international law and exist an extralegal area. Still, on 10/7, Hamas unprovoked invaded Israeli territory attacking and slaughtering civilians. Hezbollah has also been launching rockets into Israel. Israel has a right to defend itself and it has a right to exist within the historical borders that the entire international community voted for and ratified. Believing in that doesn't mean condoning ethnocentrism or ethnically targeted policy. Unfortunately, that was a reality for many places including the United States especially in the 1930s and earlier. There is also a progressive left in Israel and it's a country that has given us many medical and technological advances, not to mention a permissive and tolerant, and democratic culture. The portrayal of the country as a colonial oppressor similar to South Africa is not apt. ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 05:36, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
:: We agree. The whole situation is just so sad. Why can't people get along? Ask Isaac and Ishmael! It started with them, and their descendants are doomed to always be at war. To complicate matters, the state of Israel is also used as a pawn in international political intrigues and is used as a proxy, whether it likes it or not. The specter of ] always hangs over the region. -- ] (]) (PING me) 05:49, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
:::Yes, it's global chess games, and unfortunately there is collateral damage and innocents in the crossfire. All we can do is try to educate and deradicalize people. Sadly, a lot of our current day progressives have forgotten some of the important and hard-won lessons. ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 05:54, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
:: On a different topic, what about the '']'' mess? What is to prevent Trump from doing the same and going after any editors here who include anything negative in his articles? We have about two months before our freedoms can get attacked, so we should enjoy this respite. -- ] (]) (PING me) 05:54, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
:::Definitely don't defame anyone onwiki. I agree. It's a worrisome development. But also, I think I'm a 2024 truther. Let's see the final counts and any cured mail-in ballots. Biden wasn't declared winner in 2020 until Saturday. The numbers were so far off from the polls such as the Seltzer poll in Iowa, and DeJoy is still postmaster. Trump always projects and accuses his opponents of what he's guilty of. But you'll notice nobody has mentioned "stopping the steal" or any rigged ballot counts in the last 36 hours. ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 05:56, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
:::: Interesting stuff. The election needs to play out and be curated. It needs a complete and thorough ''post mortem''. I have a hard time believing that the Russians, who fully penetrated most electoral systems in most states, didn't use that knowledge to benefit Trump this time around. That makes no sense, so they likely did have a finger or two in the works somewhere. Being as dishonest as he is, I'm always suspicious of him. He would be a failure, by his own standards, if he missed a chance to cheat, and even though he is a huge failure in just about every area of life, cheating is one area where he excels. This was just too "clean". -- ] (]) (PING me) 16:39, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
{{outdent|::::}}Any idea why Ivanka Trump patented a "voting machine" in China in 2018? I've tried to find more info, but I can't. She applied for the patent in 2016, which seems weird. I was just reading Victoria Collier's wild 2012 essay in Harper's. I wonder how many people know that US voting machine companies are owned by Republicans? As late as 2020, NBC News was reporting that many of these machines made by these same companies are not certified by the U.S. Election Assistance Commission even though the companies who sell them falsely claim they are. ] (]) 23:34, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

: ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 01:13, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

== ''The Signpost'': 6 November 2024 ==

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==Email==
I got your email, but I see it's already been dealt with. However, I may consult the blocking administrator about the block. To block such a large range for the specified reason is, in my opinion, highly questionable. Not long ago I was affected by a similar block, but global. I actually had no problem editing English Misplaced Pages, because I'm an administrator, but I was blocked from all other Wikimedia projects, which was very annoying. ] (]) 20:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

== Article for The Tim Ferriss Show ==

Hi Valjean, a few months ago you were very helpful to me in making updates to the ] article. Now I'm trying to create an article for Tim's podcast, The Tim Ferriss Show. I'd love it if you could take a look at the draft I have posted ]. Would you consider moving it to main space?

Thank you, ] (]) 14:44, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

== ''The Signpost'': 18 November 2024 ==

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== ''The Signpost'': 12 December 2024 ==
3. Worded briefly


<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;"> {{Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages Signpost/2024-12-12}} </div><!--Volume 20, Issue 17, manually published--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * ''']''' * ] * ] * ] (]) 21:56, 12 December 2024 (UTC) </div></div>
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== You see this? ==
5. With precise diffs and links


''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 19:39, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
6. Civil in tone
: Yes, we've known that he was accused of lying since Spring, but now he has actually confessed. Nice! Giuliani has some unsavory Russian intelligence accomplices in his efforts to cover-up Trump's misdeeds and cast the blame on others, such as Biden and Ukraine. Nasty business. Our content that says that "no evidence of wrongdoing by Joe Biden has been found" (paraphrase) is still accurate. -- ] (]) (PING me) 19:46, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
BTW, your sharp mind is needed at ]. -- ] (]) (PING me) 19:52, 17 December 2024 (UTC)


:I'll check it out when I have some time. ''']'''<span style="border:2px solid #073642;background:rgb(255,156,0);background:linear-gradient(90deg, rgba(255,156,0,1) 0%, rgba(147,0,255,1) 45%, rgba(4,123,134,1) 87%);">]</span> 20:04, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
I am more than willing to work with you (as I have stated previously), and help you add information, even when that information does not conform to my own POV. Just ask for my help. I believe in the inclusion of differing POV, as long as they are encyclopedic, are from verifiable, reliable, and good sources, and without any ]. If you doubt my intentions regarding the application of NPOV to opposing POV, just ask ], a chiropractor whom I admire very highly. We have had a very good working relationship, and he can vouch for the fact that I allow much content to remain that is not in harmony with my POV, as long as it is added in a collaborative spirit, and is not in violation of any Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines. -- ] 14:02, 20 January 2007 (UTC)


== Mediation == ==Happy First Edit Day!==
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I must have missed something, what was your reaosn for rejecting mediation? I think it might have helped. ] if you prefer. <b>]</b> <small>(])</small> 20:31, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
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Have a very happy first edit anniversary!


From the ], ] (]) 00:46, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
== Arbitration ==
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  • Ashe Schow (November 25, 2015). "Misplaced Pages founder advocates for updating policies following 'The Hunting Ground' controversy". Washington Examiner. Retrieved February 8, 2020. Another editor, whose username is BullRangifer, suggested Misplaced Pages not become "a kangaroo court or lynching" by rushing to ban accounts who break COI. BullRangifer suggested following seven steps to determine whether "The Hunting Ground" crew member should be banned and whether his edits should be removed. Some of the steps included how he handled questions related to his edits and whether he stuck to discussion pages to ask for edits rather than making them himself.
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The Signpost: 4 September 2024

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That was kind of sweet

"Now, last time you talked to Slate, you had an update for Misplaced Pages. Do you have any further updates for Misplaced Pages that you would like to share? No, I don’t. But that was one of my favorite moments on Twitter of all time. That was amazing." Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:14, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Ah! The Emily St. John Mandel situation. I have forgotten most of it, so had to look again. I hope she feels justice was finally done here. I still believe we should allow mention of the controversy over Misplaced Pages's failure. We normally do it as it's clearly notable enough for mention. Our added failure to even mention it is a clear case of censorship to protect Misplaced Pages's reputation, and that's just wrong. In one breath we have a policy that says Misplaced Pages is WP:NOTCENSORED, and in the next we actually censor it for the worst possible reason. That example makes me ashamed to be a wikipedian. Consensus can be wrong.
What is that Twitter moment she mentions? Do you have info on that or a link to a tweet? https://x.com/emilymandel -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 18:36, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
My reading is when she tweeted "Interview me please!" and Slate said "sure". Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 19:47, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
That makes sense. It worked. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 20:59, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Tim Ferriss

Hi Valjean, I'm working to update Tim Ferriss's page with details about his philanthropic work in the field of psychedelic research. I see that you're a member of WP:ALTMED, so I hope that you will consider implementing my edit request on the Talk page. I would love your help. Thank you! Coyoteadventures (talk) 14:55, 10 September 2024 (UTC)

Notification

See Misplaced Pages:No original research/Noticeboard#Ellen G. White. tgeorgescu (talk) 18:43, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Destiny (streamer) revert

@ValijeanCan you elaborate on why Fox News is not credible but other outlets are? Destiny made very extreme remarks regarding the Trump assassination attempt as clearly stated in a Piers Morgan: Uncensored episode. Are you suggesting I include the YouTube video as a source as well? – Brenr 17:09, September 21, 2024 (UTC) – Brenr 17:09, September 21, 2024 (UTC) 17:09, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

@Valijean I've adjusted the source to YouTube. Let's not revert that. I can find additional sources so it's incompliance with Misplaced Pages's standards. – Brenr 17:14, September 21, 2024 (UTC)
Why do you even ask such a question? Are you unaware of the extreme biases of Fox News and how it broadcasts falsehoods and deception all the time? We limit its use, especially regarding BLP assertions. If Destiny is really far-left, then there will be multiple mainstream RS that say so. The article already includes multiple descriptions of Destiny's political views. Your YouTube primary source isn't good either. It doesn't even describe him as far-left. You need multiple mainstream, secondary, RS that say it. This is BLP stuff, so we're very careful and delete immediately until better sourcing is provided. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 17:23, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
A YouTube video is an original source, which is sufficient. A valid source doesn't need to be one that is from a publisher with a pundit who describes him as extreme. He has demonstrated that by his own words, which is absolutely sufficient as a source. Also, where are you getting this idea that left-wing media outlets would publish articles claiming Destiny is far left when the outlets themselves have a left leaning? – Brenr 17:30, September 21, 2024 (UTC)
YouTube is a primary source we are cautious about using, especially for BLP claims. I use it to back up what RS already say. That's a legitimate use of primary sources. That he might express views that are typically far-left isn't good enough. That's our own POV about what he says. We need secondary RS that expressly say it. If it's that difficult to find such sources, then it doesn't belong in the article. BTW, I have no previous knowledge of either Destiny or Tim Pool. I don't usually listen to podcasts or YouTube channels for such content. I use YouTube for music, and YouTube Premium is well worth the cost. You can read about my media diet. I occasionally hear an episode of The David Pakman Show because my wife shares it with me. She likes him, and he doesn't rant and rave. He seems clearly left-wing and progressive, and not far-left. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 17:49, 21 September 2024 (UTC)

Tim Ferriss - Career section

Hi Valjean, Thanks so much for you help on Tim Ferriss's page. Would you be willing to look at the new edit request I posted about adding to the Career section? I would really appreciate it. Thank you! Coyoteadventures (talk) 14:37, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

 Done. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 15:15, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
Thank you so much! Coyoteadventures (talk) 15:16, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

A cup of tea for you!

thank you for undoing my edit to Big lie! I didn't realize it was a quote and will be more careful next time :) xRozuRozu (t • c) 04:10, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
You're very welcome, and thank you. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 04:19, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

The Signpost: 26 September 2024

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A cup of coffee for you!

Keep seeing your diligent work on Steele dossier pop up on my watchlist. Andre🚐 22:20, 27 September 2024 (UTC)
Thanks! So nice to have you back. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 22:33, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Tim Ferriss - additional updates

Hi Valjean, You have been so helpful on Tim Ferriss's page. I added one more edit request to the Talk page with ideas for the Early life and Personal life sections as well as the lead. I would love it if you would take a look - Talk:Tim_Ferriss#Additional_updates_to_the_page. I'm grateful for your assistance. Thank you! Coyoteadventures (talk) 15:16, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

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The Signpost: 19 October 2024

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Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 10:22, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

on communication in different societies

As a New Yorker, I think the truism or the stereotype of learned experience is a dangerous and powerful thing. Universality can also be a delusion at times, but consider empiricism, a topic I know we both cherish. Many things about the universe are counter-intuitive and sometimes even irrational, like quantum mechanics. Yet we still sometimes harbor the delusion of a Newtonian universe. We also inhabit a reality tunnel. Map-territory relation is a fraught topic. What I mean by all of this abstract stuff is that it's better not to generalize even though obviously different societies are different. For example, in low-content or high-context societies, for example, I recently had the occasion to work with a lot of international folks from the Scandinavian region. There's a bluntness that I can appreciate, very different from say, Japan, where it's expected to imply or skirt around certain things. Yes, Israelis also have their own type of communication and some if it is a stereotype, but how can you argue with one's internalized lived experience? Yet, we must, because it can cause to make generalizations go beyond the scope or local minimum which they apply in. As a New Yorker, I've always seen other New Yorkers put themselves out there to help anyone who needs it, and work together as a city to heal or help communities, yet you would hear the stereotype that New Yorkers aren't "nice." Yet, "Minnesota nice" people will tell you that their pleasantries are passive aggression. What's better?

A writer like Gil Troy is reliable. I challenge you to find any errors in his books on Israel and Zionism. Sure, he has a POV, but he's not Dershowitz or Karsh. And there's nothing really that wrong with Karsh either, but he doesn't make any illusion of showing where he's coming from. That doesn't mean he can't be used for facts, since we apparently think it's ok to use an anthropologist, Nadia abu el Haj, on an article about genetics, or we'll use an economist instead of a historian as on the Zionism article. There's a problem on Misplaced Pages in that we have inconsistently applied, in some cases leading to presumed-unintentional cherrypicking, when it comes to a number of issues about international politics. In fact, I would challenge anyone who thinks there aren't many problems with Misplaced Pages's coverage of international politics to actually spend some time thoughtfully compiling a source survey of the top Ivy League or Cambridge/Oxford/Stanford/MIT/and similar caliber academics and how they treat international politics, versus some of the academics that end up getting used on Misplaced Pages but are objectively less pedigreed - maybe not fringe per se, but definitely in a specific niche.

How are you feeling about tonight? I'd say about D 342 is my prediction and a trifecta is looking quite possible if NE-Sen, MT, and/or OH have a D night. House also looks good, as 3 of the R-to-D flips are already priced in by the NYT, and Oracle Pelosi has graced us with her aligning view. Andre🚐 21:50, 5 November 2024 (UTC)

Apologies for butting in uninvited, but I ended up here by happenstance & felt the need to reply.
On a somewhat cursory glance of his writings, I would not consider Gil Troy a reliable source as he is rather prone to errors.
In WHY I AM A ZIONIST he writes that "Israel has been falsely accused of ...withholding vaccines from Palestinians" despite that being a real issue (He also cites his own opinion article) He also states "Israel has no legislation based on race" on the pretext that race = "appearance, blood, presumed biology or skin color", which ignores the social aspect of race as a concept. He then uses this as justification for his later reasoning -
"Security-based distinctions may keep Israelis and Palestinians apart but that’s not apartheid, a race-based, skin-color-driven form of legal discrimination." (I'm not commenting on if Israel does or does not practice apartheid, only that he does not understand what the word means, thus failing to properly counter the accusation).
Then, in his book, The Essential Guide To October 7th And Its Aftermath, he references posters saying “Rape Is Resistance and “Babies Are Occupiers Too… Free Palestine by Any Means Necessary.”, but what he is referencing are obviously fake stickers spread online by an outrage grifter named Oil London.
He does not do his research & he does not care for accuracy.
Again, apologies for this potential tirade, I'm not outright objecting to your point or mean any offense to you, but I felt the need to point out issues with Gil Troy specifically. Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 00:45, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

My reply to both of you is that I don't know who Troy is and haven't considered him in anything I've said. What I said at the Zionism article was generalities and principles. I have not been active in the Middle East topics area and have no desire to get into that quagmire and quicksand. I suspect it has a lot of tricky aspects, just like the gender and LGBTQ topics, and one can easily offend and be misunderstood. I have seen too many good editors blocked because of it in both areas. I am not an expert and have a lot to learn, so I appreciate all input. Feel free to teach me.

My father and brothers have traveled in those areas, while I have only visited Lebanon for ten days in 1996. We stayed with our new family in Beirut. My wife's nephew met a Christian Lebanese girl in England, and we were invited to the wedding. The food and hospitality were amazing! Super healthy and tasty. We love garlic, so got lots of it. It was a different party and restaurant every night. We chartered a bus for the whole family and toured the country. That was quite the experience. As we got further and further south in the Beqaa Valley, stopping at checkpoint after checkpoint, the signs on buildings got more and more ominous. I was the only American, and I was warned, for good reason, to not let my nationality be known. The signs showed huge caricatures of American soldiers with alligator heads with Arabic babies in their mouths, with lots of blood. At one checkpoint, the driver refused to go any further, with the explanation that we were getting too far into Hezbollah territory and could risk becoming hostages. Yes, it sounded like a good idea to get out of that area! Further south was the area from which Hezbollah shoots their rockets into northern Israel. Every day Israeli jets buzzed Beirut, with loud sonic booms and generally spreading terror, because they would also shoot at targets. We saw on TV a little knoll in the Beqaa Valley that had a Syrian tank on it. An Israeli jet blew it up, and that was just on the other side of the coastal range from where we were. This was very different from peaceful Denmark! It turned out that this was normal for peacetime. There were no active conflicts at the time, so this was just the usual way that Israel treated Lebanon. I would love to visit Israel, but with Lebanon stamped in my passport, that would have been out of the question. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 01:48, 6 November 2024 (UTC)

I brought up Troy as an example of a reliable Zionist historian since you (Valjean) said that Zionist historians exaggerate. I'm sure that some Zionist historians do, but Troy is reliable. Responding to Butterscotch - is he a friend of yours? - Israel does give vaccines to the Palestinians, Troy's opinion on the appropriateness of the word apartheid is hardly impeaching his credibility, and your example of some kind of outrage grifter doesn't negate the fact that there are very real activists espousing those messages in addition to presumed trolls. Nothing in Buttscotch's thread is any kind of indictment or critique of Troy. Troy happens to be Canadian and is not Israeli. But there are also a number of reliable Israeli historians. Andre🚐 00:24, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
I don't really know @Valjean, as I said, I got here by happenstance, more specifically, I misclicked & my curiosity got the best of me.
The point of how Israel is now handling vaccines though, is irrelevant considering what/when Troy was referring to, Covid-19, where that was an issue.
I was not commenting on his opinion of how appropriate the word apartheid was, but rather that he either 1) didn't have the wherewithal to check what the accusation he sought to deny meant, or 2) he purposefully sought to mislead the reader as he repeatedly emphasizes his incorrect understanding of race to dismiss the argument. (I'm trying to practice good faith in my analysis of his work, so I'll stick with 1).
My "example of some kind of outrage grifter" is important because the only place I can find of any evidence showing posters or stickers with that message are from a bunch of grifters on twitter who peddle in disinformation. (If you can find actual protesters saying either “Rape Is Resistance" or “Babies Are Occupiers Too", please let me know so I can condemn them & block them) It's important because it would show that he doesn't scrutinize or verify his sources. It also didn't help that he didn't actually cite any info for that book, so its contents remain academically useless.
It's fine for him to be highly opinionated, but his inability to properly fact check his sources to support those opinions leave him as a sub-par writer, especially for such a contentious topic.
There should be enough actually academic Zionist scholars to cite anyway, so I don't feel we'd be at much of a loss not using him.
...And, I seem to've typed out another wall of text, sorry for that. Also, apologies to Valjean for having my words clutter your page. Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 01:17, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
That's a ridiculous assumption that because you couldn't personally verify something, you believe that is evidence that Troy doesn't fact check his sources and is a sub-par writer. He's an academic and a respected published author and historian. Andre🚐 01:42, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
Well if I can't verify the claim, and he doesn't cite anything, its validity should be considered questionable. He's also an American presidential historian, not a Zionist historian (should've brought that up earlier), so his academic credentials are unrelated to his activism.
Are you going to acknowledge anything else that I wrote? Also, should we take this to a different page as to not further bother Valjean? Butterscotch Beluga (talk) 01:59, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
Actually I'd rather drop it. You haven't made any reasonable arguments. Troy is a historian of Zionism as well as other types of history. If Valjean wants to respond to any of this, he can, or not. I was responding to something Valjean wrote, as far as I know there isn't any editing issue that you and I have to discuss. Valjean is one of my friends here. But I unfortunately found a lot of problems with the recent statement he made on Zionism. I do not think I could find common ground with you on this, and you've done little to disabuse me of that. Troy is reliable, but I also haven't at any time cited anything to him in an article. If I ever do and you revert that, we can discuss it then, until then, I don't think we have anything to discuss further right now. Andre🚐 03:38, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't mind you holding your conversation here. I'm learning from it! Andre, please explain what problems you found with my comments. I'm sure I can learn more. My opinion there is neither my full POV (whatever the fuck that might be!) nor necessarily well-informed, hence my desire to hear your opinion. (It would also help me to know your background. Jewish?... or use email) I have a pathologically insatiable desire to always be learning, hence my love for editing here and watching Jeopardy!. (Feel free to improve my article Strategies and skills of Jeopardy! champions.) -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 05:18, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I think it's been a matter of public record on wiki so I don't mind saying that my great-grandparents came to America fleeing the pogroms in the Russian Empire and Eastern Europe. I tend not to agree with my more right-wing family members but most American Jews are quite progressive and believe it's OK to criticize the current right-wing government of Israel and the high civilian death tolls. It's also the case that Hamas uses human shields and puts hostages in civilian areas or with journalists or military installations in hospitals. There are many problematic tropes and misinformation, such as those who accuse Israel of intentionally trying to wipe out the Palestinian population, a population that has only continued to grow, nothing like the Holocaust during which 6 million Jews were killed and the population still hasn't recovered. Arab citizens in Israel can vote, own land, and serve in the parliament. Most of the Jewish population of Israel, only about half of which is European, went there because they had nowhere else to go after persecution in Europe and the Middle East/North African areas that became inhospital and expelled or otherwise persecuted their Jews in the aftermath of 1948. The US did not accept many Jewish refugees in the 1930s and 1940s. That doesn't mean the Palestinian refugees didn't also in many cases get a raw deal and it's fair to criticize the West Bank settlers that often flout international law and exist an extralegal area. Still, on 10/7, Hamas unprovoked invaded Israeli territory attacking and slaughtering civilians. Hezbollah has also been launching rockets into Israel. Israel has a right to defend itself and it has a right to exist within the historical borders that the entire international community voted for and ratified. Believing in that doesn't mean condoning ethnocentrism or ethnically targeted policy. Unfortunately, that was a reality for many places including the United States especially in the 1930s and earlier. There is also a progressive left in Israel and it's a country that has given us many medical and technological advances, not to mention a permissive and tolerant, and democratic culture. The portrayal of the country as a colonial oppressor similar to South Africa is not apt. Andre🚐 05:36, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
We agree. The whole situation is just so sad. Why can't people get along? Ask Isaac and Ishmael! It started with them, and their descendants are doomed to always be at war. To complicate matters, the state of Israel is also used as a pawn in international political intrigues and is used as a proxy, whether it likes it or not. The specter of Armageddon always hangs over the region. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 05:49, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
Yes, it's global chess games, and unfortunately there is collateral damage and innocents in the crossfire. All we can do is try to educate and deradicalize people. Sadly, a lot of our current day progressives have forgotten some of the important and hard-won lessons. Andre🚐 05:54, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
On a different topic, what about the Asian News International vs. Wikimedia Foundation mess? What is to prevent Trump from doing the same and going after any editors here who include anything negative in his articles? We have about two months before our freedoms can get attacked, so we should enjoy this respite. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 05:54, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
Definitely don't defame anyone onwiki. I agree. It's a worrisome development. But also, I think I'm a 2024 truther. Let's see the final counts and any cured mail-in ballots. Biden wasn't declared winner in 2020 until Saturday. The numbers were so far off from the polls such as the Seltzer poll in Iowa, and DeJoy is still postmaster. Trump always projects and accuses his opponents of what he's guilty of. But you'll notice nobody has mentioned "stopping the steal" or any rigged ballot counts in the last 36 hours. Andre🚐 05:56, 7 November 2024 (UTC)
Interesting stuff. The election needs to play out and be curated. It needs a complete and thorough post mortem. I have a hard time believing that the Russians, who fully penetrated most electoral systems in most states, didn't use that knowledge to benefit Trump this time around. That makes no sense, so they likely did have a finger or two in the works somewhere. Being as dishonest as he is, I'm always suspicious of him. He would be a failure, by his own standards, if he missed a chance to cheat, and even though he is a huge failure in just about every area of life, cheating is one area where he excels. This was just too "clean". -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 16:39, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Any idea why Ivanka Trump patented a "voting machine" in China in 2018? I've tried to find more info, but I can't. She applied for the patent in 2016, which seems weird. I was just reading Victoria Collier's wild 2012 essay in Harper's. I wonder how many people know that US voting machine companies are owned by Republicans? As late as 2020, NBC News was reporting that many of these machines made by these same companies are not certified by the U.S. Election Assistance Commission even though the companies who sell them falsely claim they are. Viriditas (talk) 23:34, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Andre🚐 01:13, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

The Signpost: 6 November 2024

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Please sign the Misplaced Pages:2024 open letter to the Wikimedia Foundation

Misplaced Pages:2024 open letter to the Wikimedia Foundation -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 18:16, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

Email

I got your email, but I see it's already been dealt with. However, I may consult the blocking administrator about the block. To block such a large range for the specified reason is, in my opinion, highly questionable. Not long ago I was affected by a similar block, but global. I actually had no problem editing English Misplaced Pages, because I'm an administrator, but I was blocked from all other Wikimedia projects, which was very annoying. JBW (talk) 20:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Article for The Tim Ferriss Show

Hi Valjean, a few months ago you were very helpful to me in making updates to the Tim Ferriss article. Now I'm trying to create an article for Tim's podcast, The Tim Ferriss Show. I'd love it if you could take a look at the draft I have posted here. Would you consider moving it to main space?

Thank you, Coyoteadventures (talk) 14:44, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

The Signpost: 18 November 2024

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The Signpost: 12 December 2024

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You see this?

Andre🚐 19:39, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes, we've known that he was accused of lying since Spring, but now he has actually confessed. Nice! Giuliani has some unsavory Russian intelligence accomplices in his efforts to cover-up Trump's misdeeds and cast the blame on others, such as Biden and Ukraine. Nasty business. Our content that says that "no evidence of wrongdoing by Joe Biden has been found" (paraphrase) is still accurate. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 19:46, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

BTW, your sharp mind is needed at Talk:E._Jean_Carroll_v._Donald_J._Trump#"Falsely_stated"??. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 19:52, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

I'll check it out when I have some time. Andre🚐 20:04, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

Happy First Edit Day!

Happy First Edit Day!

Have a very happy first edit anniversary!

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