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== Shvetashvatara Upanishad ==
== Black stone of Kaaba is Lingam ==


There is many evidence that pre Islamic Arabian worship the Black stone of Kaaba which is Shiva Lingam created durng King Vikramaditya reign who ruled in Arabia in 100BC. ] (]) 13:45, 17 April 2019 (UTC) I am not happy that the entire subsection is based on Kramrisch's work. See these two reviews: and . ] (]) 06:36, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
:If I am not wrong, the part. Upanishada is accepted to be ~5/6th century creation. Why is it placed right after IVC? ] (]) 06:39, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
:There is some not-so-subtle POV pushing accompanying this over reliance on Kramrisch. ] (]) 06:50, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
::Maybe {{U|WikiLinuz}} will explain why the self-published works of ] - a Yoga Guru and not an academic - would be used to critique scholars like Doniger. Or the works of ] who predated Doniger by about a century, in what is a light-year for the field of Indology.
::Balagangadhara is another from the decolonial lands of Hindutva. ] (]) 13:59, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
::Please quote me the line from Kramrisch (p. 14) that supports her rejection of Doniger. All I is her interpretation of the Pashupati Seal, which is ]. ] (]) 14:08, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
::: {{tq|Please quote me the line from Kramrisch (p. 14) }} "The phallus or Iiṅga pointing upward and pressing against the abdomen is a visual convention rendering the concept of ūrdhvaretas or the ascent of the semen" (line 4). Also see p. 107 "The liṇga of Śiva has three significations. They are liṇga as sign; liṇga as phallus, and liṇga as cosmic substance". On the other hand, Doniger is ''far'' from denying that Lingam represents more than a 'mere' phallus(you can also see on the Appendix C Glossary on p. 324 on Doniger's ''Siva: The Erotic Ascetic, 2009'' work.) although other scholars cited does mention the ] nature of the Lingam.
::: {{tq|a Yoga Guru and not an academic - would be used to critique scholars like Doniger}} We're talking about the ] rendering of the Lingam, which was explicitly states by Saraswati supported by later scholars. {{tq| who predated Doniger by about a century, in what }} This is from the source that mentions about Vivekananda's critiques about Western Indologists who 'merely' considering Lingam to be a phallus and nothing more. ] (])


::: Also, on Doniger's ''On Hindus, 2013'', she is didn't mention of the rendering of Urdhva Retas even ''once'' when that's the whole concept of Lingam as phallus's significance comes into context. She mentioned ''Urdhva-Medhrva'' on p. 193 and ''once'' on ''Siva: The Erotic Ascetic, 2009'' on p. 25 with a vague explanation without going into the spiritual nature of ] and Urdhva Retas, although multiple other scholars does go into more detail in explaining. There is also no mention of Brahmacarya or practice of celibacy which the phallic iconography of Lingam represents on Doniger's works. ] (]) 14:48, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
: @] There is no evidence. BhavishyaPurana was written much later. And the boundaries for Vikramaditya defined in it are well within South Asia ] (]) 11:50, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
::::I still can't find that quote on that page of the book. Are there different editions perhaps? Either way, the quote you provide here from Kramrisch is not a critique; it is a thesis. So, that citation as it is presented is erroneous. I think this citation should instead be included where the theory of Linga as phallus is introduced perhaps? :-) ] (]) 11:23, 1 April 2024 (UTC)


== Shivling as a phallus needs to be removed ==
Agree with ]


Shivling as a phallic symbol is a post-Vedic ideology centered to discredit The actual representation. A lot of people get the wrong idea because of this misinformation when in reality, the Lingam is a pillar of fire according to Linga Puran. The correlation to phallus narrative should be changed with accurate information. ] (]) 17:56, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
The bhavishya Purana mentions him as Parmara king. But we don't find any mention of Parmara dynasty before 7th century.(I believe this legend about him being a world conquering Parmara was created to ligimatize the Parmara rule )
Bhavishya has History of obvious interpolation like it mentions queen Victoria, ,prophet Muhammad and Jesus. ] (]) 09:55, 22 February 2021 (UTC)


:Please provide ], and take note of ]. ] -] 18:16, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
== why sivalinga is facing north deriction ? ==


I did provide the source, it was removed stating summary of information ] (]) 18:37, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
Sivalinga is a holy structure of hindu. As we see while worshiping linga we see it is facing north because it is always facing Mt.kailas .
::This is a common claim, but the evidence of early representations such as the ], not to mention early images of Shiva with an erect penis, is pretty unequivocal as to at least the origin of the linga as a phallic symbol. Scholarly sources agree. Those so set against this should ask themselves what is so terrible about this. ] (]) 20:01, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
'which is known as a place where siva lived.
:::Gudimallam lingam is being confused for a circumcised penis in a civilization where penis is left uncircumcised. You are demonizing Hindu gods. ] (]) 16:28, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
::::Phooey! Who says it is circumcised? ] (]) 22:28, 22 March 2023 (UTC)


The original source such as Linga Puran does not cite such texts. These are post Vedic claims that have no accuracy. Isn't the purpose of Misplaced Pages to provide accurate information? When I am provide source, why are admins here pressed on providing inaccurate information? ] (]) 20:15, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
It's cause the flow of energy of the river ganges. ] (]) 07:15, 17 April 2021 (UTC)


The origin of Linga dates back to the formation of universe as cited in the Linga Puran. The Linga was originally a pillar of fire and does in no way represent the phallus. ] (]) 20:21, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
== Description, history and others about shivalingam is wrong. ==
{{Help me-helped}}
I've had give the information of shivalingam but the Misplaced Pages editors disagree with me. I don't know what wrong with them, it's like discriminating hindu gods. I'm requesting to Misplaced Pages editors to rewrite the information about shivalingam again.


== Why does my information on the accuracy of Shivling not being a phallic symbol keep reverting? ==
{{] (]) 11:03, 5 June 2020 (UTC)}}


I have edited multiple times with better reference than most cited here and even then the changes are reverted. Why is that? ] (]) 20:13, 16 August 2022 (UTC)


:Because you add a specific point of view, from a non-scholarly source, to the lead; the ] summarizes the article, which gives an overview of what relevant scholarly sources (]) have to say about the topic. Please familiarize yourself with those policies. ] -] 04:15, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
:(edit conflict – I was writing this text in the section above but will add it here as it directly relates to H1213's post here) {{yo|Hari1213}}, your edits violate Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines in several ways. Essentially the same content has been restored multiple times, with some changes which however do not change the policy violations. I will use of your edits to illustrate this.
::Non Hindus and non Indians will now say that they know more about Hinduism than it's practitioners? Dont talk rubbish. ] (]) 16:27, 22 March 2023 (UTC)


== Shivling is not phallus ==
:* The text does not have a ], but is written from the point of view of a particular religion. Examples include (but ''are not limited to'') "In the shiva lingam the seven chakras of kundalini remain fully active. And so it’s the most powerful thing which makes a person spiritually awaken and brings peace in mind.", "Additionally, there is a mysterious or indescribable power in the linga.", "It indicates our mother nature holds us in her." This is the kind of phrasing that is appropriate for a religious or poetic text, but not for an encyclopedia.


this is just pure demonization of Hindu gods. We all know what will happen to the writer who is blaspheming against islam. And we also know hindus won't do that. But that doesn't mean you just abuse Hindu gods without repercussions. ] (]) 16:25, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
:* The text is not adequately sourced, despite the addition of some references. As an example, I checked all three references for the first part of the first paragraph. The ''Encyclopedia of Hinduism'', page 17, does not appear to support any of that information. ''Introducing Hinduism: A Graphic Guide'' does not have pages so "page 17" is hard to find, but again I am unable to verify any of the claims in there. (As an aside, that book defines "lingam" as "phallus", which I believe is one of the claims you dispute.) ''The Lord Shiva'' does not meet the requirements for a ].


:Buddy need to removed false notion of wendy dongier like scholars which are far from any traditional sources and using colonial standard and psychoanalysis regarding the text and misinterpret it. She is same scholar which also psychoanalysis the ganesha god which is very derogatory in nature and also called the bhagavad geeta text which promoting violence and ridicule the bhagavad geeta. Cite such controversial scholar which is far from authority over hinduism show biasedness of this article. ] (]) 19:05, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
:* The text is often difficult or impossible to understand – this is not a policy violation as such, but it is of course not helpful to our readers to have encyclopedia articles that can't be understood. For example, the first sentence read "A Shivalingam or lingam is known as a symbol of lord shiva in form of a lingam in Hinduism that being worshiped for decades" (a lingam is a symbol in the form of a lingam?). There are also multiple language errors that make the text difficult to understand, as well as use of terminology or other vocabulary that's specific to the religion.


Wendy dongier is controversial for her psychoanalysis of hindu text and concept which extremely problematic and denigrated. As view of scholar cannot taken as authority over text which entirely opposite of traditional scholars and text. So I request pleased removed the her citation and shivlanga is not phallic symbol from any stretch of imagination. So better removed this citation and reference of her to stop spreading wrong strerotype regarding shivalingam. ] (]) 19:13, 3 April 2023 (UTC)
:* Finally, the edits also removed quite a lot of well-sourced content, including the basic explanations that helps a reader understand what the article is even about.


*Doniger says nothing that many others scholars have not said. To quote myself above: "the evidence of early representations such as the ], not to mention early images of Shiva with an erect penis, is pretty unequivocal as to at least the origin of the linga as a phallic symbol. Scholarly sources agree. Those so set against this should ask themselves what is so terrible about this." ] (]) 03:18, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
:If you have suggestions for additions, things that are missing in the article, please suggest them here on the talk page together with the supporting sources. Similarly, if there are claims in the article which you have good reason to think is inappropriate, bring it up here on the talk page. Please make explicit suggestions such as "Change  to " with a source (but don't make a suggestion for changing the entire text in one go.) Uninvolved editors would then be able to see whether something should be added or changed, and they could edit the article accordingly. Regards, --'']'' <small>] ]</small> 11:30, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
*:I have a suggestion, if they cite some scholarly sources the why not put both the points? ] (]) 15:15, 27 December 2023 (UTC)


*I thin that say lingam (or shiva linga) cannot be a phallic symbol for Shiva as absurd for modern day English usage when it is clearly the ]. Consider the following definitions for lingam:
Sure. My only concern is that shivalingam is not a sexual organ or phallus. I will give some evidence or support material to you. ] (]) 12:44, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
**{{tq|The aniconic phallic representation traditionally worshipped as a symbol of or in connection with Shiva.}} – ]. Retrieved 2023-12-31.
:It ''is'' a symbolic representation of a phallus, as all the best sources agree. In the 19th century some Hindu writers tried to claim otherwise, but, as was explained to you, the discovery of the ancient ] lingam and other early evidence made this line untenable about a century ago. That's why people keep reverting you - you are wrong. Read better-quality sources. ] (]) 17:39, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
**{{tq|Among the Hindus, a phallus, worshipped as a symbol of the god Shiva.}} – {{cite web |title=lingam - Quick search results |url=https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=lingam |website=Oxford English Dictionary |access-date=2023-12-31}}
**{{tq|''Hinduism'': A stylized phallus worshiped as a symbol of the god Shiva.}} – {{cite web |title=The American Heritage Dictionary entry: lingam |website=ahdictionary.com |url=https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=lingam |access-date=2023-12-31}}
**{{tq|a stylized phallic symbol that is worshipped in Hinduism as a sign of generative power and that represents the god Shiva}} – {{cite web |title=Definition of LINGAM |website=Merriam-Webster |date=2023-12-19 |url=https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lingam |access-date=2023-12-31}}
:This is simlilar to the situation for ] (see ] as well). People object to using that word because of its association with Nazis, but it is clear that ''swastika'' is the ] for ''hakenkreuz''. Lingam is clearly a common name for a phallic symbol for Shiva in today's English. ] (]) 00:29, 31 December 2023 (UTC)


== Erroneous reference removal ==
(Need to change):


Hi @] I removed the reference to Kramrisch 1994, p. 14. But you reverted it as "not erroneous". I removed this because page 14 of Kramrisch's publication "The Presence of Siva" does not include a critique of Wendy Doniger and Rohit Dasgupta's interpretation of the view of linga as extrapolations of what was originally a phallic symbol (as is claimed in the article). This is therefore an erroneous citation. The author may well make such a critique elsewhere (sorry I can't help on whether she does), but not as per the citation provided.
1. It often is found within a lipped, disked structure that is an emblem of goddess Shakti and this is called the yoni


I'm a relative novice at on wiki, but as a scholar I try to be correct and accurate. Just trying to be helpful with a correction :-)
2. they symbolize the union of the feminine and the masculine principles, and "the totality of all existence",


If you agree (I acknowledge that I may be missing something very obvious here), then perhaps we can revert to remove that citation or provide an alternative correct citation :-)
3. the lingam symbolizes Shiva in Hinduism, and it is also a phallic symbol


Thanks ] (]) 11:03, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
4. Since the 19th-century, states Dasgupta, the popular literature has represented the lingam as the male sex organ


5. The shaivites, a linga is neither a phallus nor do they practice the worship of erotic penis-vulva, rather the linga-yoni is a symbol of cosmic mysteries.


== Remove the Sexual Representation of Lingam ==
6. *shivalingam does nt have any history*
The Lingam is often misunderstood, especially in the Western interpretation of Eastern symbols, as a representation of the male sexual organ. However, this view is a significant oversimplification and misinterpretation of its profound spiritual and symbolic meanings in Hindusim


Misconceptions of the Lingam:
7. About the gudimallam lingam- it is not an erect phallus. Has a story
The misinterpretation of the Lingam as merely a phallic symbol can be traced back to early European colonial views, which often misunderstood or deliberately misrepresented non-Western cultures. This perspective overlooks the complex, layered significance the Lingam holds within Hindu worship and philosophy.


True Meaning of the Lingam:
8. the Mahabharata is the first ancient Hindu text where the lingam is "unequivocally designating the sexual organ of Shiva". ] (]) 03:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)


In Hinduism, the Lingam is primarily a symbol of Shiva, one of the principal deities of the religion known as "the Destroyer" or "the Transformer" within the Trimurti, along with Brahma and Vishnu. The Lingam is an emblem of the energy and potential of God, Shiva. More profoundly, it represents the totality of the cosmos and the generative power of the universe.
The answers for the above wrongly mention:


The Lingam is typically present in Shiva temples as a smooth cylindrical mass that symbolizes Shiva's formless aspect. It's often paired with the Yoni, which represents the goddess Shakti, embodying the universal feminine energy. Together, the Lingam and Yoni symbolize the union of the passive space and the active time from which all life originates. This union transcends the physical and embodies metaphysical and philosophical concepts of creation.
Answer


The significance of the Lingam is mentioned in several Hindu texts, including the Shiva Purana, which describes the origin of the Lingam, known as the Shiva-Lingam, as an infinite cosmic pillar, symbolizing the infinite nature of Shiva. This scriptural account emphasizes that the Lingam represents the beginningless and endless Stambha pillar, marking it as a link between the Earth and the Skies, the material and the spiritual.
1. The concept of Shakti, as both divine energy and as the goddess is of great importance within Tantric philosophy and practice, which places much reverence on the feminine principle of creation. Shakti embodies the active energy and power of male deities, with whom she is often personified as a wife.
Source: https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Shakti
- en.wikipedia.org/Murti#:~:text=Murti%20


Scholars and modern practitioners of Hinduism emphasize the symbolic interpretations of the Lingam. It is viewed as an abstract representation of the divine, focusing on qualities like creation, destruction, and regeneration, which are aspects of Shiva’s character.
2. It is much more difficult to focus on God as the unmanifested than God with form, due to human beings having the need to perceive via the senses


The interpretation of the Lingam as a mere sexual symbol is a profound misunderstanding of its role and significance in Hindu spirituality. It is a rich emblem that encapsulates major philosophical and cosmic principles of the Hindu faith. Understanding the Lingam through its scriptural, cultural, and philosophical contexts provides a more accurate and respectful appreciation of its place in Hindu worship.
Source: en.wikipedia.org/Murti#:~:text=Murti%20

3. In Sanskrit it means symbol which points the inference. Thus the symbol is represents that the omnipotent lord, which is formless.
Source: https://www.learnreligions.com/what-is-shiva-linga-1770455
- https://shodhganga.inflibnet.ac.in/bitstream/10603/58063/11/11_chapter%206.pdf

4. Those, who say of Shiva Lingam as sexual symbol, are themselves primitive,because they cannot see anything else but sexuality. If we stretch our imagination to that extent, we can also say that the Cross, which the Christians worship, is also a symbol of sexual union. The horizontal small bar represents vagina of the female and the vertical bar piercing through it is the penis. If Shiva Lingam is a symbol of sexual union, the cross is also equally the same symbol; the only difference between the two is of art. Shiva - Lingam is quite artistic while there is no art in the cross. Being primitive they have represented only by lines.

Source: https://sites.google.com/site/vvmpune/essay-of-dr-p-v-vartak/shiva-lingam


5. is an oblong stone stuck into the ground exactly halfway along its length. The visible, above ground portion symbolizes Shakti, the manifest principle of Godhead. The invisible underground portion symbolizes Shiva, the unmanifest principle of Godhead. This Shivalinga therefore depicts both Shiva and Shakti.
Source: https://sites.google.com/site/vvmpune/essay-of-dr-p-v-vartak/shiva-lingam
- https://www.rarebooksocietyofindia.org/book_archive/196174216674_10153173367576675.pdf


6. Shiva is the smallest living thing also the nonliving thing and also the biggest thing. For an example some great mountains are shapped as lingam; shivaneri, himalaya, biggest planetary nebula and extra- galactic nebula. This is why lingam has no history how it's birth, from where it comes from and and etc. Einstein has correctly said that a straight line is not straight, if it extend to infinity it forms an oblong.
Source: https://sites.google.com/site/vvmpune/essay-of-dr-p-v-vartak/shiva-lingam
- https://shodhganga.inflibnet.ac.in/bitstream/10603/58063/11/11_chapter%206.pdf


7. It is a tale about sage parasuram. Parasuram after killed his mother, he later wanted to clear his sin then met a sage and he advised parasuram to perform penance on a bank of swarnamukhi river. Then when he start to perform penance brahma appears as a dwarf and wanted to help parasuram. Later the next day the dwarf started helping parasuram and decides to tease parsuram with plucking the flower on the river and acts like the flower failed to blossom. After few days doing this same act finally parasuram finds that he is lying to him and his anger aroused. When parasuram chased the dwarf to punish him the dwarf (brahma)disappeared while calling lord shiva. Lord appeared and said that sage parasuram's that his penance had borne fruit the minute brahma had plucked the first flower from the river, and he no need to be guilty. Then lord shiva blessed them by merging with the lingam. Shiva as the lingam form this unique, unparalleled icon, he is in form of lingodbhava murti
Source: https://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=2146413274


8. Yudistra who consecrated the main deity shivalingam. It is states in Mahabarata he worship lingam. There is also a incident a gomatha(cow) worship this linga daily. It was built between 12th and 13th centuries AD. It is mentioned in Mahabarata volume 10
Source: https://books.google.com.my/books?id=617iBQAAQBAJ&pg=PT273&lpg=PT273&dq=mahabharata+about+lingam&source=bl&ots=KqmObBb8iH&sig=ACfU3U15c93M6CRDDofr0v-y7IVGOaEmOA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjh8JfT3OzpAhXGV30KHVM-CmcQ6AEwCnoECA0QAQ#v=onepage&q=mahabharata%20about%20lingam&f=false

- https://topyaps.com/mahabharata-era-shiva-lingam-at-lakhamandal/ ] (]) 03:04, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

:Thank you for being more specific about the changes you are after. I will refer to the first set of sentences (which you say need to change) as "a" and your comments on each sentence as "b".
:1. "b" is not a replacement sentence for "a", since it would make no sense in the context of that paragraph. (In addition, "b" is unsourced, as only a Misplaced Pages copy is given as a reference – and the "b" sentence is taken verbatim from there.)
:2. Same issue as with 1. "b" doesn't have any obvious connection to "a" (and again Misplaced Pages is given as a source, and in the article ] that exact sentence is said to be a quote from the Bhagavad-Gita.)
:3. The Sanskrit meaning of the word is in the article, as is the aspect of formlessness (see ]). No contradiction with the text in "a" (which in the article is followed by the sentence "This view contrasts with the traditional abstract values they represent in Shaivism wherein the lingam-yoni connote the masculine and feminine principles in the entirety of creation and all existence".)
:4. Here "b" is a paragraph from an essay posted on the Internet, which can't be used as a source in Misplaced Pages, and the argumentation is rather absurd. In any case, the sentence in "a" is sourced – and is again presented together with the contrasting view.
:5. No clear connection (much less a contradiction) between "a" and "b".
:6. Where does it say that there is no history ("a")? And I don't understand your reasoning in "b" at all, I'm afraid.
:7. There are four reliable sources supporting the current phrasing in the article, and many more in the article about the lingam in question. The legend presented at megalithic.co.uk ("b") is perhaps documented in a reliable source somewhere – it is not exactly unique to have different legends connected to holy places – but nothing at megalithic.co.uk contradicts the current phrasing, and in any case I doubt it would be considered a reliable source for Misplaced Pages's purposes.
:8. Sorry, I don't understand your reasoning in "b" at all. "a" is sourced, it is in fact mostly a direct quote from a reliable source. --'']'' <small>] ]</small> 18:22, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

For the B. It is stated in Misplaced Pages itself that It is much more difficult to focus on God as the unmanifested than God with form, due to human beings having the need to perceive via the senses( which means that the form of god is only can be perceive via senses and not justified as masculine or feminine principles. There are no such thing as masculine and feminine. Evidence: it is stated in Misplaced Pages itself in murti article. ] (]) 01:29, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

👆🏻Above reply from me is for 2. B ] (]) 12:23, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Regarding the term of lingam as phallus, yoni, or sexual organ. This is a wrong term, lingam is not a sexual organ. In this article the word sexual organ or phallus or yoni should be removed. This term was coined by a person called Sir richard francis burton publisher of kamasutra book. Lingam were never called as yoni or phallus or sexual organ in hinduism.

This is the source:
https://books.google.com.my/books?id=c8vRAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA202&lpg=PA202&dq=lingam+is+not+sexual+organ&source=bl&ots=4Q1xKkDb57&sig=ACfU3U0f-7Jpf--y8IrXNjmEI01ejo4UEg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjOgZm04vnpAhXHzTgGHVSxDekQ6AEwDHoECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=lingam%20is%20not%20sexual%20organ&f=false ] (]) 12:47, 11 June 2020 (UTC)
::I suggest you read the whole of Doniger's chapter carefully. She is ''very far indeed from denying'' the phallic nature of the lingam. Like me above, she points to the ] lingam, but also to many Hindu textual sources. She explicitly deals with the phallus-denying position you express. ] (]) 14:38, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

Sorry. But in hinduism there are no such thing has the term lingam as phallus. We either can't believe the words of doniger. ] (]) 13:36, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Just adding, Gudimallam is not the 'oldest lingam' found and wikipedia itself states that
//his is perhaps the second earliest linga associated with Shiva discovered so far, and it has been dated to the 2nd/1st century BC, or the 3rd century BC, or much later, to the 2nd century AD, 3-4th century AD, or even, according to one source, as late as the 7th century AD. //
So one it's history itself is debated and hence you can't really say it's oldest by definition. So a remote sect worshiping Shiva as Phallus(if you wanna say so) can't be generalized while writing a public article (which is what we are doing by indicating Shiva-linga as Phallus). And best sources for generalizing religious symbols are religious texts - Do we have any evidence from religious texts of Shiva linga being worshiped as 'Phallus' alone ? - Probably not

//Blurton describes the figure as not having "the features associated with gods of orthodox Hinduism" but "squat and broadly-built, and with the thick curly hair and the pronounced lips still seen amongst tribal populations in Central India", suggesting the non-Vedic aspects being absorbed into the emerging figure of Shiva.//
Here 'non-Vedic aspects' and 'not having the features associated with gods of orthodox Hinduism' is important. You can't paint a single instance(reason we have 33 million/billion gods is everyone is free to interpret whatever they want) (worshipped by a remote tribe) to the whole hinduism. We never grew up identifying Shivalinga as 'phallus' and like Hari rightly pointed out , we may choose to disagree with what Doninger has to say.
Now coming to article - an article should highlight and describe what 'general evidence' says. And general evidence does not says/interprets Shiva linga as 'phallus' alone, nor do general Hindu population believes in. Rather an exception is made general in here, we need to ask a question - 'How many instances of Shiva linga are seen/viewed as Phallus' and what evidence do we have that Shiva linga was originally derived/viewed as Phallus' ?

So maybe a small section in the article saying, a small sect in Hinduism may have been worshiping Shiva as phallic symbol rather then generalizing it here in the description.
//Lingam iconography found at archaeological sites of the Indian subcontinent and southeast Asia includes simple cylinders set inside a yoni, mukhalinga rounded pillars with carvings such as of one or more mukha (faces), and anatomically realistic representations of a phallus such as at Gudimallam.//
It assumes that 'all' (even though it does not explicitly says so) ASI iconography reflects Shiva linga as anatomically representations of a phallus - Isn't that an assumption ? (while just one instance can be referenced) <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 05:14, 4 December 2020 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Move discussion in progress ==

There is a move discussion in progress on ] which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. <!-- Talk:Linga (disambiguation) crosspost --> —] 09:02, 31 July 2020 (UTC)

== Removal of the phallic symbols category ==

"Lingam" being placed under the "phallic symbols" category is factually inaccurate, because lingam in essence do not symbolize phallic iconography as per the sources on the page. Considering "lingam" ''merely'' a phallus is only applied in freudian theory, which by itself is disproven and highly critiqued. A specific type of lingam, retas lingam, which illustrates the principal of Urdhva Retas is neither considered to be symbolizing fertility nor sexuality as per the sources although anatomically phallus in shape. On the other hand, all the other articles listed under the category indeed symbolize fertility and variant of sexuality and doesn't have refined meaning around the iconography, like lingam does. Since categorization highly contradicts the symbolism of Lingam as per sources, it's inaccurate to be placed under the phallic category in particular and should be removed due to factual inaccuracy and ambiguity with other articles on the category. —] (]) 18:41, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
<br />cc, {{reply to|Bonadea}}

== Shvetashvatara Upanishad ==

I am not happy that the entire subsection is based on Kramrisch's work. See these two reviews: and . ] (]) 06:36, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
:If I am not wrong, the part. Upanishada is accepted to be ~5/6th century creation. Why is it placed right after IVC? ] (]) 06:39, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
:There is some not-so-subtle POV pushing accompanying this over reliance on Kramrisch. ] (]) 06:50, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
::Maybe {{U|WikiLinuz}} will explain why the self-published works of ] - a Yoga Guru and not an academic - would be used to critique scholars like Doniger. Or the works of ] who predated Doniger by about a century, in what is a light-year for the field of Indology.
::Balagangadhara is another from the decolonial lands of Hindutva. ] (]) 13:59, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
::Please quote me the line from Kramrisch (p. 14) that supports her rejection of Doniger. All I is her interpretation of the Pashupati Seal, which is ]. ] (]) 14:08, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
::: {{tq|Please quote me the line from Kramrisch (p. 14) }} "The phallus or Iiṅga pointing upward and pressing against the abdomen is a visual convention rendering the concept of ūrdhvaretas or the ascent of the semen" (line 4). Also see p. 107 "The liṇga of Śiva has three significations. They are liṇga as sign; liṇga as phallus, and liṇga as cosmic substance". On the other hand, Doniger is ''far'' from denying that Lingam represents more than a 'mere' phallus(you can also see on the Appendix C Glossary on p. 324 on Doniger's ''Siva: The Erotic Ascetic, 2009'' work.) although other scholars cited does mention the ] nature of the Lingam.
::: {{tq|a Yoga Guru and not an academic - would be used to critique scholars like Doniger}} We're talking about the ] rendering of the Lingam, which was explicitly states by Saraswati supported by later scholars. {{tq| who predated Doniger by about a century, in what }} This is from the source that mentions about Vivekananda's critiques about Western Indologists who 'merely' considering Lingam to be a phallus and nothing more. ] (])

::: Also, on Doniger's ''On Hindus, 2013'', she is didn't mention of the rendering of Urdhva Retas even ''once'' when that's the whole concept of Lingam as phallus's significance comes into context. She mentioned ''Urdhva-Medhrva'' on p. 193 and ''once'' on ''Siva: The Erotic Ascetic, 2009'' on p. 25 with a vague explanation without going into the spiritual nature of ] and Urdhva Retas, although multiple other scholars does go into more detail in explaining. There is also no mention of Brahmacarya or practice of celibacy which the phallic iconography of Lingam represents on Doniger's works. ] (]) 14:48, 1 September 2021 (UTC)


For those interested in deeper scholarly analysis or the scriptural texts regarding the Lingam, works such as "Saiva Siddhanta" by S. G. S. Murthy and "The Myths and Gods of India" by Alain Daniélou provide extensive insights. Additionally, the Shiva Purana, one of the eighteen Puranas which are part of the Hindu body of texts, offers detailed narratives about the Lingam and its significance.
== Doniger's psychoanalytic interpretation as "sources" ==
I didn't use external sources to provide the information about the Lingam in Hinduism. The details I provided are based on general knowledge about Hindu religious practices, symbolism, and scripture. If you're looking for more detailed academic or textual sources, I recommend checking out books like "The Myths and Gods of India" by Alain Daniélou or accessing Hindu scriptures like the "Shiva Purana" for primary sources. These texts are available in major libraries and bookstores, and some resources might be available online through academic databases or websites like Archive.org. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 14 may 2024 (UTC)</small>


:If the lingam was only described as a sexual symbol, you would have a point. Yet, that is not the case; Hindu views on the lingam as a representation of Shiva are clearly presented.
Psychoanalytic interpretations of Hindu iconography or deities is neither the original transpilation per Sanskrit literature nor she is formally trained in psychoanalysis.<ref>https://magazine.uchicago.edu/0412/features/</ref> It's so she finds the underlying motivations, social conflicts, conceptual paradoxes per Freud's psychoanalytic theories although there doesn't exist such underlying intentions per the original literature. In the encyclopaedia, we rather be more inclined towards scholars who interpret the complexities of iconography or deities per the original literature than psychoanalytic view. Although I'm not sure Doniger interprets the texts in psychoanalytic persecptive in all her scholarships, however, works like ''On Hinduism, 2013'', ''Siva: The Erotic Ascetic, 2009'' or ''The Hindus: An Alternative History, 1981'' does view with psychoanalytic lens. Even if this interpretation is predominantly targeted for academicians, this shouldn't be cited in an encyclopaedia for general audience. —] (]) 13:20, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
:Misplaced Pages summarizes what ] state about a subject, and is not ]ed by religious views. If you don't like that, too bad for you, but it means Misplaced Pages is not a proper place for you to contribute too. Regards, ] - ] 06:10, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
:{{tq|In the encyclopaedia, we rather be more inclined towards scholars who interpret the complexities of iconography or deities per the original literature than psychoanalytic view.}} What makes you think that Doniger does not interpret the motifs per original literature? ] (]) 14:01, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
:: {{tq|What makes you think that Doniger does not interpret the motifs per original literature?}} How does a psychoanalytic interpretation is assumed to be the interpretation per original literature? ] (]) 14:04, 1 September 2021 (UTC)


::first of all you can't call Lingam a sexual organ?
== Phallic imagery ==
::who are you to decide which label the Lingam is.
::Have you read the vedas? puranas? shastras? upanishads? hindu scholar books?
::i have and unlike the editor i dont go out of my way to start labeling the Lingam a Phallus.
::if this continues a hindu association will need to approve this.
::have a hindu scholar to read the lines and approve it.
::u have not written Doginer thinks its she says.
::who is a foreign woman to decide what the lingam is?
::Regards ] (]) 06:25, 14 May 2024 (UTC)


:::Hindu scholars who want to contribute to Misplaced Pages also have to conform to Wiki-policies. And what's the relevance of Doniger being a woman? ] - ] 07:32, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
A cogent summary in {{Cite journal|last=Fleming|first=Benjamin J.|date=2009|title=The Form and Formlessness of Śiva: The Linga in Indian Art, Mythology, and Pilgrimage|journal=Religion Compass|language=en|volume=3|issue=3|pages=448|issn=1749-8171}} : {{talkquote|None of our earliest examples of ''linga''s and ''linga''-like objects are explicitly, unambiguously, or unequivocally Saivite...{{pb}}It is possible, for example, that the association of the ''linga'' with Siva alchemized over a period of several centuries, perhaps continuing to evolve even into the medieval period. That the ''linga'' only gradually rose to the status of Siva’s main emblem is suggested by our ample evidence for anthropomorphic images of Siva...{{pb}}In the centuries following our earliest evidence for ''linga''s, we see the influence of Saivite literature and theology on its form and iconography. Whereas the iconography of early ''linga''s lacks consistency, our later evidence speaks to efforts at systematization. Innovations and standardization in the iconography of the ''linga'' seem to have occurred particularly during the Gupta period (ca. 3rd–6th c. ce). This development appears to have been marked, moreover, by concerted attempts to eliminate any overt resemblance of the ''linga'' to the human phallus. Jitendra Nath Banerjea (1935, pp. 36–44; 1956, pp. 445–56), Gritli von Mitterwallner(1984, p. 18, n. 33), and Hans Bakker (1997, pp. 75–76) have pointed to the discomfort of the Brahmanical tradition with realistic, phallic imagery. They propose that the older form may have been modified due to this discomfort; this abstraction, in turn, allowed for the incorporation of the ''linga'' into the broader tradition. One might further suggest that elite theologians may have wanted nothing at all to do with ''linga'' worship until it was sufficiently abstracted from phallic realism in the Gupta period and could be absorbed into the increasingly pro-Vedic strand of Saivism that was beginning to take form at the time. (Fleming 2007, pp. 140–83)}} ] (]) 14:25, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
::::We all agree that wendy doniger is not authority over hinduism related topics and certainly not the credible scholars as methodology of scholars very outdated based on psychoanalysis. Better you should the tradition source regarding the topic. Don't act like the typical white colonial supremacist. ] (]) 14:41, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
:::Late to the punch (seeing as the person being responded to is blocked), but from what I'm reading in the article, Doniger is comparing different traditions' views of the lingam, not stating outright that it ''is'' phallic. It's even pointed out that {{tq|ccording to Doniger, the terms ''lingam'' and ''yoni'' became explicitly associated with human sexual organs in the western imagination after the widely popular first ''Kamasutra'' translation by Sir Richard Burton in 1883.}} —]&nbsp;(&nbsp;]&nbsp;•&nbsp;]&nbsp;) 19:57, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
::::First of all if you cared to read the whole work of wendy doniger her whole assumation based on the outdated psychoanalysis methodology which not found and related to any tradition scholar's works especially work of shaiva acharya. ] (]) 05:15, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
:::::I'm not sure I understand; are you saying ''no one'' has ever interpreted the lingam as sexual? —]&nbsp;(&nbsp;]&nbsp;•&nbsp;]&nbsp;) 06:28, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
::::::I am saying no traditional scholars and initiated shaiva sampradaya acharyas never interpreted it as sexual. ] (]) 14:24, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
:::::::We're interested in covering what reliable secondary sources have to say about the subject, not just what traditional or religious scholars say. ] (] / ]) 14:31, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Some non follower says something about a religion: source
::::::::Shankaraacharyas talking: No guys, we are not interested in what scholars say. A book written by someone on the other side of the planet is more reliable as a secondary source than those who hold actual authority in hinduism or an actual book calling it a pillar of fire. ] (]) 16:26, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 16:26, 28 August 2024

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Shvetashvatara Upanishad

I am not happy that the entire subsection is based on Kramrisch's work. See these two reviews: 1 and 2. TrangaBellam (talk) 06:36, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

If I am not wrong, the part. Upanishada is accepted to be ~5/6th century creation. Why is it placed right after IVC? TrangaBellam (talk) 06:39, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
There is some not-so-subtle POV pushing accompanying this over reliance on Kramrisch. TrangaBellam (talk) 06:50, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
Maybe WikiLinuz will explain why the self-published works of Sivananda Saraswati - a Yoga Guru and not an academic - would be used to critique scholars like Doniger. Or the works of Swami Vivekananda who predated Doniger by about a century, in what is a light-year for the field of Indology.
Balagangadhara is another strange personality from the decolonial lands of Hindutva. TrangaBellam (talk) 13:59, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
Please quote me the line from Kramrisch (p. 14) that supports her rejection of Doniger. All I see is her interpretation of the Pashupati Seal, which is now rejected by most scholars. TrangaBellam (talk) 14:08, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
Please quote me the line from Kramrisch (p. 14) "The phallus or Iiṅga pointing upward and pressing against the abdomen is a visual convention rendering the concept of ūrdhvaretas or the ascent of the semen" (line 4). Also see p. 107 "The liṇga of Śiva has three significations. They are liṇga as sign; liṇga as phallus, and liṇga as cosmic substance". On the other hand, Doniger is far from denying that Lingam represents more than a 'mere' phallus(you can also see on the Appendix C Glossary on p. 324 on Doniger's Siva: The Erotic Ascetic, 2009 work.) although other scholars cited does mention the Purusha nature of the Lingam.
a Yoga Guru and not an academic - would be used to critique scholars like Doniger We're talking about the Purusha rendering of the Lingam, which was explicitly states by Saraswati supported by later scholars. who predated Doniger by about a century, in what This is from the source that mentions about Vivekananda's critiques about Western Indologists who 'merely' considering Lingam to be a phallus and nothing more. Wiki Linuz (Ping me!)
Also, on Doniger's On Hindus, 2013, she is didn't mention of the rendering of Urdhva Retas even once when that's the whole concept of Lingam as phallus's significance comes into context. She mentioned Urdhva-Medhrva on p. 193 and once on Siva: The Erotic Ascetic, 2009 on p. 25 with a vague explanation without going into the spiritual nature of Brahmacarya and Urdhva Retas, although multiple other scholars does go into more detail in explaining. There is also no mention of Brahmacarya or practice of celibacy which the phallic iconography of Lingam represents on Doniger's works. Wiki Linuz (Ping me!) 14:48, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
I still can't find that quote on that page of the book. Are there different editions perhaps? Either way, the quote you provide here from Kramrisch is not a critique; it is a thesis. So, that citation as it is presented is erroneous. I think this citation should instead be included where the theory of Linga as phallus is introduced perhaps? :-) FaresM (talk) 11:23, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Shivling as a phallus needs to be removed

Shivling as a phallic symbol is a post-Vedic ideology centered to discredit The actual representation. A lot of people get the wrong idea because of this misinformation when in reality, the Lingam is a pillar of fire according to Linga Puran. The correlation to phallus narrative should be changed with accurate information. SanatanScriptures (talk) 17:56, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Please provide WP:RS, and take note of WP:CENSOR. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 18:16, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

I did provide the source, it was removed stating summary of information SanatanScriptures (talk) 18:37, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

This is a common claim, but the evidence of early representations such as the Gudimallam Lingam, not to mention early images of Shiva with an erect penis, is pretty unequivocal as to at least the origin of the linga as a phallic symbol. Scholarly sources agree. Those so set against this should ask themselves what is so terrible about this. Johnbod (talk) 20:01, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
Gudimallam lingam is being confused for a circumcised penis in a civilization where penis is left uncircumcised. You are demonizing Hindu gods. XK2aXsmasherX (talk) 16:28, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
Phooey! Who says it is circumcised? Johnbod (talk) 22:28, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

The original source such as Linga Puran does not cite such texts. These are post Vedic claims that have no accuracy. Isn't the purpose of Misplaced Pages to provide accurate information? When I am provide source, why are admins here pressed on providing inaccurate information? SanatanScriptures (talk) 20:15, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

The origin of Linga dates back to the formation of universe as cited in the Linga Puran. The Linga was originally a pillar of fire and does in no way represent the phallus. SanatanScriptures (talk) 20:21, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Why does my information on the accuracy of Shivling not being a phallic symbol keep reverting?

I have edited multiple times with better reference than most cited here and even then the changes are reverted. Why is that? SanatanScriptures (talk) 20:13, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

Because you add a specific point of view, from a non-scholarly source, to the lead; the WP:LEAD summarizes the article, which gives an overview of what relevant scholarly sources (WP:RS) have to say about the topic. Please familiarize yourself with those policies. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 04:15, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
Non Hindus and non Indians will now say that they know more about Hinduism than it's practitioners? Dont talk rubbish. XK2aXsmasherX (talk) 16:27, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Shivling is not phallus

this is just pure demonization of Hindu gods. We all know what will happen to the writer who is blaspheming against islam. And we also know hindus won't do that. But that doesn't mean you just abuse Hindu gods without repercussions. XK2aXsmasherX (talk) 16:25, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Buddy need to removed false notion of wendy dongier like scholars which are far from any traditional sources and using colonial standard and psychoanalysis regarding the text and misinterpret it. She is same scholar which also psychoanalysis the ganesha god which is very derogatory in nature and also called the bhagavad geeta text which promoting violence and ridicule the bhagavad geeta. Cite such controversial scholar which is far from authority over hinduism show biasedness of this article. 223.233.83.34 (talk) 19:05, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

Wendy dongier is controversial for her psychoanalysis of hindu text and concept which extremely problematic and denigrated. As view of scholar cannot taken as authority over text which entirely opposite of traditional scholars and text. So I request pleased removed the her citation and shivlanga is not phallic symbol from any stretch of imagination. So better removed this citation and reference of her to stop spreading wrong strerotype regarding shivalingam. 223.233.83.34 (talk) 19:13, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

  • I thin that say lingam (or shiva linga) cannot be a phallic symbol for Shiva as absurd for modern day English usage when it is clearly the common name. Consider the following definitions for lingam:
    • The aniconic phallic representation traditionally worshipped as a symbol of or in connection with Shiva.wiktionary:lingam. Retrieved 2023-12-31.
    • Among the Hindus, a phallus, worshipped as a symbol of the god Shiva."lingam - Quick search results". Oxford English Dictionary. Retrieved 2023-12-31.
    • Hinduism: A stylized phallus worshiped as a symbol of the god Shiva."The American Heritage Dictionary entry: lingam". ahdictionary.com. Retrieved 2023-12-31.
    • a stylized phallic symbol that is worshipped in Hinduism as a sign of generative power and that represents the god Shiva"Definition of LINGAM". Merriam-Webster. 2023-12-19. Retrieved 2023-12-31.
This is simlilar to the situation for swastika (see Talk:Swastika as well). People object to using that word because of its association with Nazis, but it is clear that swastika is the common name for hakenkreuz. Lingam is clearly a common name for a phallic symbol for Shiva in today's English. Peaceray (talk) 00:29, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

Erroneous reference removal

Hi @WikiLinuz I removed the reference to Kramrisch 1994, p. 14. But you reverted it as "not erroneous". I removed this because page 14 of Kramrisch's publication "The Presence of Siva" does not include a critique of Wendy Doniger and Rohit Dasgupta's interpretation of the view of linga as extrapolations of what was originally a phallic symbol (as is claimed in the article). This is therefore an erroneous citation. The author may well make such a critique elsewhere (sorry I can't help on whether she does), but not as per the citation provided.

I'm a relative novice at on wiki, but as a scholar I try to be correct and accurate. Just trying to be helpful with a correction :-)

If you agree (I acknowledge that I may be missing something very obvious here), then perhaps we can revert to remove that citation or provide an alternative correct citation :-)

Thanks FaresM (talk) 11:03, 1 April 2024 (UTC)


Remove the Sexual Representation of Lingam

The Lingam is often misunderstood, especially in the Western interpretation of Eastern symbols, as a representation of the male sexual organ. However, this view is a significant oversimplification and misinterpretation of its profound spiritual and symbolic meanings in Hindusim

Misconceptions of the Lingam: The misinterpretation of the Lingam as merely a phallic symbol can be traced back to early European colonial views, which often misunderstood or deliberately misrepresented non-Western cultures. This perspective overlooks the complex, layered significance the Lingam holds within Hindu worship and philosophy.

True Meaning of the Lingam:

In Hinduism, the Lingam is primarily a symbol of Shiva, one of the principal deities of the religion known as "the Destroyer" or "the Transformer" within the Trimurti, along with Brahma and Vishnu. The Lingam is an emblem of the energy and potential of God, Shiva. More profoundly, it represents the totality of the cosmos and the generative power of the universe.

The Lingam is typically present in Shiva temples as a smooth cylindrical mass that symbolizes Shiva's formless aspect. It's often paired with the Yoni, which represents the goddess Shakti, embodying the universal feminine energy. Together, the Lingam and Yoni symbolize the union of the passive space and the active time from which all life originates. This union transcends the physical and embodies metaphysical and philosophical concepts of creation.

The significance of the Lingam is mentioned in several Hindu texts, including the Shiva Purana, which describes the origin of the Lingam, known as the Shiva-Lingam, as an infinite cosmic pillar, symbolizing the infinite nature of Shiva. This scriptural account emphasizes that the Lingam represents the beginningless and endless Stambha pillar, marking it as a link between the Earth and the Skies, the material and the spiritual.

Scholars and modern practitioners of Hinduism emphasize the symbolic interpretations of the Lingam. It is viewed as an abstract representation of the divine, focusing on qualities like creation, destruction, and regeneration, which are aspects of Shiva’s character.

The interpretation of the Lingam as a mere sexual symbol is a profound misunderstanding of its role and significance in Hindu spirituality. It is a rich emblem that encapsulates major philosophical and cosmic principles of the Hindu faith. Understanding the Lingam through its scriptural, cultural, and philosophical contexts provides a more accurate and respectful appreciation of its place in Hindu worship.

For those interested in deeper scholarly analysis or the scriptural texts regarding the Lingam, works such as "Saiva Siddhanta" by S. G. S. Murthy and "The Myths and Gods of India" by Alain Daniélou provide extensive insights. Additionally, the Shiva Purana, one of the eighteen Puranas which are part of the Hindu body of texts, offers detailed narratives about the Lingam and its significance. I didn't use external sources to provide the information about the Lingam in Hinduism. The details I provided are based on general knowledge about Hindu religious practices, symbolism, and scripture. If you're looking for more detailed academic or textual sources, I recommend checking out books like "The Myths and Gods of India" by Alain Daniélou or accessing Hindu scriptures like the "Shiva Purana" for primary sources. These texts are available in major libraries and bookstores, and some resources might be available online through academic databases or websites like Archive.org. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Richardgrayson3451 (talkcontribs) 14 may 2024 (UTC)

If the lingam was only described as a sexual symbol, you would have a point. Yet, that is not the case; Hindu views on the lingam as a representation of Shiva are clearly presented.
Misplaced Pages summarizes what WP:RS state about a subject, and is not WP:CENsORed by religious views. If you don't like that, too bad for you, but it means Misplaced Pages is not a proper place for you to contribute too. Regards, Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 06:10, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
first of all you can't call Lingam a sexual organ?
who are you to decide which label the Lingam is.
Have you read the vedas? puranas? shastras? upanishads? hindu scholar books?
i have and unlike the editor i dont go out of my way to start labeling the Lingam a Phallus.
if this continues a hindu association will need to approve this.
have a hindu scholar to read the lines and approve it.
u have not written Doginer thinks its she says.
who is a foreign woman to decide what the lingam is?
Regards Richardgrayson3451 (talk) 06:25, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
Hindu scholars who want to contribute to Misplaced Pages also have to conform to Wiki-policies. And what's the relevance of Doniger being a woman? Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 07:32, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
We all agree that wendy doniger is not authority over hinduism related topics and certainly not the credible scholars as methodology of scholars very outdated based on psychoanalysis. Better you should the tradition source regarding the topic. Don't act like the typical white colonial supremacist. Truth Seeker Alway (talk) 14:41, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
Late to the punch (seeing as the person being responded to is blocked), but from what I'm reading in the article, Doniger is comparing different traditions' views of the lingam, not stating outright that it is phallic. It's even pointed out that ccording to Doniger, the terms lingam and yoni became explicitly associated with human sexual organs in the western imagination after the widely popular first Kamasutra translation by Sir Richard Burton in 1883.Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 19:57, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
First of all if you cared to read the whole work of wendy doniger her whole assumation based on the outdated psychoanalysis methodology which not found and related to any tradition scholar's works especially work of shaiva acharya. Truth Seeker Alway (talk) 05:15, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
I'm not sure I understand; are you saying no one has ever interpreted the lingam as sexual? —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 06:28, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
I am saying no traditional scholars and initiated shaiva sampradaya acharyas never interpreted it as sexual. Truth Seeker Alway (talk) 14:24, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
We're interested in covering what reliable secondary sources have to say about the subject, not just what traditional or religious scholars say. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 14:31, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
Some non follower says something about a religion: source
Shankaraacharyas talking: No guys, we are not interested in what scholars say. A book written by someone on the other side of the planet is more reliable as a secondary source than those who hold actual authority in hinduism or an actual book calling it a pillar of fire. XK2aXsmasherX (talk) 16:26, 28 August 2024 (UTC)
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