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Revision as of 17:34, 21 October 2021 editDreamy Jazz (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Autopatrolled, Checkusers, Administrators105,825 edits Amendment request: Fringe science: moved elsewhere← Previous edit Latest revision as of 05:38, 15 December 2024 edit undoHouseBlaster (talk | contribs)Edit filter managers, Administrators58,050 edits Amendment request: Crouch, Swale ban appeal: remove archived requestTag: Replaced 
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== Amendment request: Fringe science ==
'''Initiated by''' ] '''at''' 16:48, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

;Case or decision affected
:{{RFARlinks|Fringe science}}

; Clauses to which an amendment is requested
#:
#:
#:
#:

; List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:
*{{admin|DGG}} (initiator)




; Information about amendment request
*:
:*To the clause {{tq| In this ruling, the term "fringe science" refers to matters which purport to be science, or use its trappings and terminology but are not usually regarded as such by the general scientific community; and to matters which do not claim to be scientific but nevertheless make claims that are normally considered within the purview of science.}} should be added ''"This should be interpreted according to the community guideline at ]''''
*:
:*Replace the statement {{tq| Neutrality requires that the article should fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by a reliable source, and should do so in proportion to the prominence of each. Academic and peer-reviewed publications are highly valued and usually the most reliable sources in areas where they are available, such as history, medicine and science.}} should be replaced by '' Academic and peer-reviewed publications are usually the most reliable sources in areas where they are available, but material from reliable non-academic sources may also be used in these areas." in order to match the guideline at ]
*:
:*Add a clause: ''In particular, WP:NPOV requires that High-quality sources should not be excluded from articles purely on the basis of the viewpoint they represent. Discussions of the quality of sources must not take account of what viewpoint they represent. Likewise, WP:V requires that every statement in an article be directly supported by a reliable source. Material must not be included in articles only on the basis of communicating the "correct" view, if it is not supported by the sources it cites."
*:
:*Add a clause: ''Fringe political, social, and religious views are not part of science. The above definitions do not apply. The fundamental policies WP:NPOV and WP:V do apply ; in particular, WP:NPOV requires that sources should not be excluded from articles on the basis of the viewpoint they represent''.

=== Statement by DGG ===
The reason for this request is the arguments on sources that keep occurring on the Reliable Sources Noticeboard, ], when dealing with minority views, where the arb com rulings have been used to prevent the inclusion of reasonably reputable sources. This includes among others recent discussions in the scientific areas of Covid, Race & Intelligence, Genetically modified organisms, climate change, and various aspects of medicine, and in the areas of American and other national politics, nationalism in different regions, and various conspiracy theories. See ]

The hope is to focus the arguments over sourcing, decrease the need for AE and discretionary sanctions, make further requests for arbitration cases in such areas unnecessary--and possibly even reduce the need for some of the discussions and arguments that arise.

I am not necessarily saying that all of the areas mentioned should rightfully be included under WP:FRINGE; I am certainly not saying that all or most of the arb com decisions or the community decisions based on them were improper, or led to incorrect conclusions. I have been involved in many such discussions at WP:RSN and elsewhere; sometimes the views I supported have been upheld, and sometimes not. I have no intention of re-arguing any of them here, or of using this request to challenge or overturn any previous decision by arbitrators or the community. The purpose of this request is to act as a guide for future discussions.
I am not naming parties, as this applies to everyone who might be working in these areas. I am notifying ] and ]

=== Statement by Alexbrn ===

I don't think arbcom should have jurisdiction over content decisions, so the current ruling is an unfortunate artefact from the past. Revoking it may, however, give the impression that somehow restrictions are being lifted. The proposed amendment looks even worse, in that in some respects it seems to want to make an end-run around core policy. In particular, for fringe topics the proposed text "WP:NPOV requires that High-quality sources should not be excluded from articles purely on the basis of the viewpoint they represent" is simply wrong, since for fringe topics ] has:
{{talkquote|... plausible but currently unaccepted theories should not be legitimized through comparison to accepted academic scholarship. We do not take a stand on these issues as encyclopedia writers, for or against; we merely '''omit this information where including it would unduly legitimize it''' ... (''emphasis mine'')}}
The proposed amendment would allow the pseudoscience in apparently "high-quality" sources (e.g. peer-reviewed articles in homeopathy journals) passage into Misplaced Pages, or at least fuel drama over arguing for it. It is important that Misplaced Pages does not include fringe ideas except through the lens of ''accepted academic scholarship'', where it exists.

If there's an issue with policy, fix the policy text. I say: don't try and provide additional layers of amendement to an area which is already plagued by ] and drama. ] (]) 17:18, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

=== Statement by Pyrrho the Skeptic ===
<small>{{clerk note}} the below was to respond to bradv. ] <sup>'']'' &#124; '']''</sup> 17:34, 21 October 2021 (UTC)</small>
** I'm a bit confused over point 6, because WP:MEDRS states: {{tq|The popular press is generally not a reliable source for scientific and medical information in articles}}, but this amendment seems like it would state that popular press is fine in fringe medicine, if that same source is used for, say, politics. ] (]) 17:20, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
=== Statement by {other-editor} ===
Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.
<!-- * Please copy this section for the next person. * -->

=== Fringe science: Clerk notes ===
:''This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).''
*

=== Fringe science: Arbitrator views and discussion ===
* If I understand this request correctly, we are being asked to reduce Misplaced Pages's dependence on academic peer-reviewed sources in fringe scientific topics by denying them priority over other sources. I welcome statements from the community on whether these changes are desirable, what impacts they would have, and whether they would be consistent with the principles and findings of the {{ArbCase|Fringe science}} case in question. – ]] 17:15, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

----

Latest revision as of 05:38, 15 December 2024

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