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view · edit Frequently asked questions Some common points of argument are addressed in the FAQ below, which represents the consensus of editors here. Please remember that this page is only for discussing how to improve this article. To view an explanation of the answer, click the link to the right of the question. Frequently asked questions about Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory Q1: Why is this topic called a "conspiracy theory" in the title? A1: Because that's what the reliable sources call it, and Misplaced Pages follows what reliable, independent, secondary sources say. See the sources listed in the footnotes in the lead of the article, for example. Q2: Why is it labeled "far-right" and "antisemitic" in the first sentence? Doesn't that show a biased, leftist point of view? A2: See answer #1; because that's what the reliable sources call it; see the citations for the first sentence. Q3: Dworkin (1997) has the term in the title of his book, so the field clearly must exist. A3: Not if he's the first one to talk about it. Dworkin said (on page 3) that "My account is the first intellectual history to study British cultural Marxism conceived as a coherent intellectual discipline". If he's the first, then either it's not a preexisting field, or no one has discovered or named it before him. Either way, that would be a different topic; this article is about the conspiracy theory dating to the 1990s. Q4: I came here to read (or edit) about scholars who apply Marxist theory to the study of culture. A4: Much of this is covered at a different article, Marxist cultural analysis. Q5: Why is this labeled "antisemitic"? Plenty of people involved with the Frankfurt school were Jewish! A5: This article is about the Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory dating to the 1990s, and the reliable sources consistently identify it as antisemitic. The Frankfurt school is a different topic, and dates back to Germany in the 1920s.

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This article has been mentioned by multiple media organizations: David Auerbach (2014-12-11). "Encyclopedia Frown". Slate. Recently, an adequate and fairly neutral page on 'Cultural Marxism,' which traced the history of Marxist critical theory from Lukács to Adorno to Jameson, simply disappeared thanks to the efforts of a single editor. Russell Blackford (2015-07-27). "Cultural Marxism and our current culture wars: Part 1". The Conversation. Russell Blackford (2015-08-02). "Cultural Marxism and our current culture wars: Part 2". The Conversation. McKinney, Kara (2021-11-29). "Tipping Point". One America News Network. Alexander Riley (2022-05-12). "On Cultural Marxism, the Antisemitic Conspiracy Theory? Woke Deception at Misplaced Pages". Minding the Campus. Shuichi Tezuka (2023-12-11). "Introducing Justapedia". Quillette.

A warning about certain sources: There are two sources on the subject of "Cultural Marxism" that represent a citogenesis or circular reporting risk to Misplaced Pages as they plagiarize verbatim directly from an outdated draft that came from Misplaced Pages, which can be found here (2006 revision here). The sources are N.D. Arora's Political Science for Civil Services Main Examination (2013) and A.S. Kharbe's English Language And Literary Criticism (2009); both are from publishers located in New Delhi and should be avoided to prevent a citogenesis incident.

Hatnote expansion

There was a lengthy (and not always calm) discussion on the AfD for 'Cultural Marxism (disambiguation)'. The original disambiguation page had just two topics but was ripe for expansion had it been retained. The conclusion of the discussion was that "A hatnote is more effective at getting readers to the other article if they end up in the wrong place.".

The sources provided showed several uses of the phrase 'Cultural Marxism', going back the 19th century - long before modern conspiracy theories. One major theme was writers who described Critical theory as 'cultural Marxism' (most famously Jordan Peterson, but with plenty of others). It may be from that usage that less analytical minds created the idea of a conspiracy.

I argued on that page that without disambiguation, Misplaced Pages would be saying that all the past uses of the term are to the later conspiracy theory: that is wrong and indeed libellous to those who have used it in other senses.

The broad choice then is: (a) A longer hatnote; (b) A disambiguation page; or (c) Mislead readers and libel some litigious commentators. The conclusion on the AfD was in favour of hatnotes. Howard Alexander (talk) 09:08, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Yeah. There's also that discussion above under Post-AfD Hatnote Poll which seems to indicate a consensus for the hatnote " "Cultural Marxism" redirects here. For the Marxist approach to social theory and cultural studies, see Marxist cultural analysis." That people have put the words "Marxism" and "(C)ultural" adjacent to each other without meaning the conspiracy theory is not a compelling argument that it is a term needing disambiguation. I hope that you aren't trying to reopen a seemingly closed discussion in hope of another result. (Also, what's this about "libel(ing) some litigious commentators"?) CAVincent (talk) 10:15, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

The hatnote was discussed above, the consensus was for the disambiguation page should be deleted. Nothing here hasn't already been discussed. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 12:40, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

The hatnote discussion was before the discussion on the AfD. I am trying to implement the conclusions reached there. Where a commentator / philosopher / speaker has used the phrase 'Cultural Marxism' to refer to another concept, specifically critical theory, how would you suggest dealing with that?

Hatnotes are useful where terms are used in different ways. The term 'Corporatism' has a long-established meaning in political philosophy and the Misplaced Pages article reflects that. However some people use it for an unrelated concept, and so the hatnote on the article redirects the reader who was looking for the latter. The same is needed with this disputed term. Howard Alexander (talk) 14:23, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Both discussions were proceeding at the same time. And the AFD in no way presented any consensus for you to change the hatnote, folks there were supporting the existing hatnote. MrOllie (talk) 14:45, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

This is why I thought I must have missed something. The discussion at AfD wasn't conclusive, and the discussion here was happening at the same time not before. I certainly don't believe the arguments presented are a reason to change the hatnote. The mischaracterisation of real subjects is the subject of this article, and other than a few passing mentions in real sources those using 'Cultural Marxism' are part of that mischaracterisation. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 16:28, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for reminding me of why I had previously unfollowed this article.

Nothing at all about hatnotes here adds up to a plausible liable case under U.S. law. Or please cite precedent to the contrary.

I will not see responses unless you tag me. Patrick (talk) 17:25, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

There are approximately five sources that had used the term cultural Marxism before the conspiracy theory used the term. None of them are significant to the topic and are only mentioned by conspiracy theorists trying to prove that there is some basis for their views.

The name of the conspiracy theory was an update of cultural Bolshevism and was not based on earlier usage of the term cultural Marxism.

I object to changing the hatnote because it's basically endorsing the views of people such as Jordan Peterson who claim cultural Marxism is a real thing. TFD (talk) 18:03, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Well, Dr Peterson does have several million viewers, so his usage of the term is significant. We are not here to endorse or suppress views, nor choose which are right or wrong. His usage, and others who have followed on from there, is (as I understand it and is oversimplified form) that the idea of Marxism posits class conflict as the motivator of history; those who follow that idea may have accepted that economic Marxism has failed, and so have adapted the ideas in a cultural form - proposing a narrative of struggle between classes, races, sexes etc. That does not require a conspiracy, any more than classical Marxism does. Essentially what is being described is a genuine social philosophy: to its proponents it has come to be known as 'critical theory' and its opponents can give it other names, of which Dr Peterson uses 'cultural Marxism'. Whether he is correct to choose that term is not for me nor you nor Misplaced Pages to say.

Having determined that this meaning is in fact applied by commentators, then it is misleading to say 'It only ever means a conspiracy theory', as that is clearly incorrect. It also smears a great many people who have used the term in other senses.

If the conspiracy theory sense is, according to the decrees of Misplaced Pages, the principal meaning, very well - but we are then duty-bound to provide a landing place for when it is used in other senses. Howard Alexander (talk) 23:20, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Peterson's sense of the term and the conspiracy theory sense is the same thing. We don't need another landing place because this article is already the correct one. MrOllie (talk) 23:33, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

"duty-bound"? You're trying really hard, but not doing very well. CAVincent (talk) 03:55, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

Do you have any reliable sources for these assertions? TucanHolmes (talk) 09:42, 16 December 2024 (UTC)

" may have accepted that economic Marxism has failed, and so have adapted the ideas in a cultural form - proposing a narrative of struggle between classes, races, sexes etc." That by definition is a conspiracy because it requires people working together. It's also false, ergo, it's a conspiracy theory. What seals the deal is the idea that the conspirators were so influential that they could have forced wokeness on unsuspecting citizens, TFD (talk) 15:17, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

There is no need to elaborate the hatnote with a distinction between Peterson's dogwhistle usage of the "Cultural Marxism" trope and the conspiracy theory, because the reliable sources treat them as the same topic - namely, as a conspiracy theory. There isn’t any other article, besides the one for the CT, where readers interested in the trope employed by culture warriors should (or even could) be directed. Newimpartial (talk) 14:23, 17 December 2024 (UTC)

The quote given is what I was thinking about. Timing is crucial though: if Peterson's use of the term popularised it, then he was not 'dog-whistling', but creating a term that others ran off with, with their own, often unreasoned, interpretations.

Describing a growing political tendency is not proposing a conspiracy: that is not how ideas spread. If someone says 'There are conservatives who want people to think X', that is not a conspiracy theory. People reading articles in 'The Spectator' or 'The Guardian' are not a cabal skulking in secret rooms!

There are conspiracy theorists about - believing in secretive cabals saves thinking - but identifying a political idea is not to allege a conspiracy. Howard Alexander (talk) 09:27, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

Peterson clearly did not create the term, we have a whole section of the article that explains this, including specific discussion of Peterson. And he is obviously alleging a conspiracy, we have a source (cited in the article) that quotes him calling anti-racist educators a 'fifth column'. It doesn't get any more clear than that. MrOllie (talk) 14:00, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

No one is promoting the political idea that Peterson writes about. Specifically he says that cultural Marxists created identity politics in order to obtain power. In fact, the people he blames as starting this did not promote identity politics, which btw predates Marxism. TFD (talk) 14:17, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

If I say 'There is a shady organisation, with cells across the country, which uses dishonesty to try to change public opinion and seeks to take over the national government', is that a conspiracy theory, or a factual description of any political party?

The quote from Jordan Peterson is describing the field of study known as critical theory, and that is genuine.

If you take such a very wide definition of 'conspiracy theory', then you must remove the statement that this one is anti-Semitic. Certainly some have added an anti-Semitic element - it is the oldest delusion in the book and gets tacked onto every conspiracy narrative going. However, if you are going to say that Jordan Paterson or Suella Braverman, or anyone else using the term is using it in the sense of a conspiracy theory, it's not that one. Neither has a grain of anti-Semitism about them. It would be libellous to include them. Howard Alexander (talk) 11:40, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Please review the many prior discussions of antisemitism (and sources evaluating the CMCT as a antisemitic) on this Talk page. The TLDR is that people - including people of Jewish heritage or identity - can deploy antisemitic tropes and dog-whistles. Them doing so doesn't change the underlying nature of the CT according to relaible sources.

Also, please refrain from making legal threats. Thanks. Newimpartial (talk) 17:58, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

No one has accused me, and I do not know either of the people I have referred to, nor am I particularly partisan regarding them. I am reminding you of the Misplaced Pages policy: Misplaced Pages:Libel. Does that not apply to us all?

There may be an anti-Semitic theory, but it is not what has been bundled in with this definition. Danny Stone (Chief Executive of Antisemitism Policy Trust) in the Jewish Chronicle in 2023: 'Is the term 'Cultural Marxism' really antisemitic? - The Jewish Chronicle'. He concludes that it is used in that way, but also with innocuous meaning, and sometimes by Marxists themselves. It shows the ambiguity, that needs disambiguation.

We can either then have a disambiguation page, or a hatnote, or deny demonstrable, citable usage. Howard Alexander (talk) 23:05, 22 December 2024 (UTC)

Do you have any independent, reliable sources for this innocuous and citable usage? No reliable, non-RSOPINION, non-self-published sources for this have been found in any of the prior, related discussions on this page - and Stone is obviously not suitable for this purpose, either.

As far as WP:LIBEL is concerned, it isn't a piece of WP:UPPERCASE that can be used to remove well-sourced material with which you disagree. If you think this article makes specific claims about living or recently deceased persons that are potentially defamatory, please point them out. I have seen none. Newimpartial (talk) 01:01, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

If you say or imply that "here is a shady organisation, with cells across the country, which uses dishonesty to try to change public opinion and seeks to take over the national government," it is a conspiracy theory. If it isn't, what is?

Also, cultural Marxism is Dog whistle (politics). It describes a Jewish conspiracy without explicitly naming them. TFD (talk) 02:52, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

That might be your interpretation, but it is only your reading of what you hear. If you hear someone whistling Marching Through Georgia, are they dogwhistling an anti-Catholic meme because it the tune is used for the Glaswegian song Billy Boys? Someone may interpret it that way, but it is not the only interpretation. It is best to assume good faith, even off-wiki.

Sensitivity to words meant in a way you would not use them is not an objective approach. You assume that the hypothetical statement 'There is a shady organisation, with cells across the country, which uses dishonesty to try to change public opinion and seeks to take over the national government.' is necessarily a conspiracy theory, but I chose it carefully: it is an exact description of what a political party does: they gather likeminded people, form local organisations with committees that meet in private and try to get elected, so that their people will form the national government. That shows the danger of jumping too early at a phrase and running off with your first thought. It saves thinking, and prevents reasoning.

No, just asserting that the very idea of cultural Marxism must be anti-Semitic is just as tenuous. I hope you read Danny Stone's article. (I don't know him, but I appreciate his work, and he has put a good deal of thought into that article.) I have also cited Brian Doherty (a libertarian) in his 2018 article, noting it the term to have been used as a synonym for Critical Theory. That is the alternative interpretation I was adding to the hatnote.

There will be those who anti-Semitic delusions into anything: that does not mean that everyone using the same language intends the same, and in this case it appears that the wild conspiracy theorists are just taking a phrase meant in a different way (quite frankly by people more intelligent than themselves) are running off using it to justify their own ideas. Howard Alexander (talk) 20:19, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

All I see in this comment is original interpretation, supported only by an op-ed intervention by someone without relevant expertise. The comment may be long, but it isn't relevant to determining content in this article. Such content must be based in the highest-quality sources we have, and according to them the CMCT is antisemitic in its origins and in its connotations. Newimpartial (talk) 21:20, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Beyond the fact it's an op-ed from someone without the relevant experise, it's use is very much missing the point of the op-ed. A couple of choice quotes from Doherty Summing up what the Frankfurt School's clotted and confusing thinkers actually wrote or believed is beyond the capacity of a short essay (or even a long one). Luckily, it is also beside the point for understanding the conspiracy theory of cultural Marxism. and of the Frankfurt School and critical theory One can spill gallons of ink on what followed from the Frankfurt School in academia. But for our purposes it hardly matters, because theories of cultural Marxism barely depend on anything those writers actually explored in their own work. Doherty is confirming the usage that is described in this article. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 21:41, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

It is an interesting article: not ana academic article but a polemic, so I would not want to cite it as a main source. Nevertheless it analyses the conspiracy idea well.

(One would have to be careful with any source, academic or polemic, as there are few neutral positions and it will take a fifty years or so for an adequately distant overview to appear.)

Doherty's analysis affirms (and reviles) the conspiracy theory. The analysis though shows numerous different uses of the term. What comes out is use of 'cultural Marxism' as a derogatory term for critical theory; turning Marx's concept of class war into a concept of sectional war. Whether that is valid or not is irrelevant: it is how the term has been and is used.

Doherty's polemic shows people are using the term to suggest a conspiracy, but that they are not always suggesting conspiracy - it suggests a political idea that spreads, as ideas do.

What does not come out of the analysis is any suggestion that the term is always anti-Semitic. (Indeed, almost all of the ideas-men accused of creating it were Gentiles.) There are certainly versions which are anti-Semiotic, and it is important to cover this. My point has always been that there is diversity of meaning. Howard Alexander (talk) 09:35, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

We're going round in circles. I'll leave this to see if anyone new points, but so far it doesn't appear that anyone is convinced by your interpretations. -- LCU ActivelyDisinterested «@» °∆t° 10:59, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

I am not expressing my opinion, but the consensus of opinion in reliable sources. Obviously advocates of the conspiracy theory reject it, but policy requires that we provide due weight to mainstream opinion. While Brian Doherty is a journalist, not a social scientist who is an expert in the field, his article provides a good summary of the mainstream position, although he doesn't explain why the theory is anti-Semitic. TFD (talk) 17:46, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Option C seems to be more or less baseless. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 22:48, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Concerns regarding the most recent edit

As an IP, I am unable to revert the most recent edit (diff). However, I would like to point out that this simplification is not supported by the sources, dictionaries, or editorial consensus. In fact, it contradicts what is stated in the MCA article. 87.116.180.169 (talk) 00:35, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

It's a reasonable way to phrase it, and supported in discussions that have been had on the talk page in the past (I think most recently in Archive 30). It certainly is not contradicted by our sources, nor does it introduce any conflict with the other article. I see no reason to revert. MrOllie (talk) 00:49, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

This question briefly came up on talk again last month, and is now in Archive 35. I'd mildly prefer sticking with "refers to" as a way of sidestepping that not *every* placement of the words "cultural" and "Marxism" next to each other refers to the conspiracy theory (though I'd agree that usage does *almost always* refer to the conspiracy theory). That said, it isn't something I'd revert a good faith change on either way. CAVincent (talk) 02:57, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

We have a pretty clear consensus for "refers to" in previous Talk discussions, so I have now reverted. Newimpartial (talk) 16:04, 11 January 2025 (UTC)

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